From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 1 02:47:25 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:46:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <35221AB8.3963643@erols.com> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 05:45:13 -0500 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: question, and SW/ESB kit update... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kev jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote: > On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Ray Ghanbari wrote: > > > I have a Q*Bert and Reactor. The boards appear to be identical, except > > Reactor interfaces to a track ball through a small ~4 IC PCB. I've been told > > that otherwise it is a ROM swap (I haven't done the rigorous side by side > > comparison). > > > > As others have mentioned, the sound board is seperate and interfaces to the > > main board through the monster edge connector. I believe QBert and Reactor use > > the same sound board as well (ROM swap) > > > > Reason I'm posting this is so someone can tell me I'm wrong before I go and > > try to get my Reactor going ;-) > > > > Ray > > > > I think I heard somewhere that the memory map was different > between the two games, so it's not as simple as a ROM swap, even though > the boards are very similar... > >From my web page at http://www.erols.com/mowerman > Last updated: May 29, 1997 > > GV-100 Reactor uses a MA-289 board which looks very similar to the GG-III > system board with 2 noticeable exceptions, no battery & smaller 2732 type > program roms near the edge connector (instead of the 2764's). It should be > possible to adapt this game to run on the GG-III system board. > > GG-III system board are marked C-22248-3 and will run the following games... > > GV-102 Mad Planets > GV-103 Q*bert > GV-105 Krull test16, step 17 > GV-113 Three Stooges test -16, step 17 > GV-119 Q*bert's Qubes > GV-134 Curveball (C-22248-2) > > Some games use RAM (2128's) in place of BG roms & change the jumpers accordingly. -- Kev Mowerman@erols.com >>REMOVE THE ? to REPLY Looking for Pac-Man related hacks & Video Game Coin Op Page -> http://www.erols.com/mowerman From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 1 14:28:35 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 14:28:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 22:25:42 GMT X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: More Star Castle info Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Here's some more info on this star castle. The game board has lots of jumper wires on it, including a wire on every eprom. Again, there is no LED on the main PCB. (When did they start putting those on?) The sound board just says sound board on it, but it looks real close to what a normal star castle sound board looks like. (I plan on comparing it side by side when I get a chance). The control panel has the start buttons in the middle (instead of off to the left). The panel is black and the buttons are all labeled with white letters. The marquee looks close to the original, but the artwork is a little different and it doesn't have all the small print. The marquee has a 90 degree bend that runs horizontally through the middle of it (so the top half of the marquee angles up and the bottom half angles down) I can't find any manufacturer name on the outside of the game, and I haven't looked close enough at the main board to see if I can find a name on it, but it does look like a standard cinematronics/vectorbeam board (I was looking through the coin door because I have my garage packed full again) I think this game is from texas, did cinematronics have any test sights down there? -jeff jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 1 14:49:44 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 14:49:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: More Star Castle info Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 14:50:46 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day folks, I've found upgraded Space Wars board (with no LED) running Rip Off in a Rip Off cabinet. Turns out that Cinematronics would take every opportunity to reuse parts that had been returned and repaired. This might explain your jumpers. Also Warrior has a wire going to each EPROM, but this had more to do with the 2532s, masked ROMs and Vectorbeam boards as I remember. Don't quote me on that as my memory has gotten vague. Need to get my Cinematronics boxes out of storage to refresh it! Maybe Zonn or Paul could continue the discussion regarding that EPROM wiring mod from this era? Didn't Rip Off and Armor Attack have start buttons in the middle? Sounds to me like you have a pieced together Star Castle using an old Space Wars mother board and a Rip Off control panel. Given how Cinematronics operated (and perhaps Centuri), this hack job still could have been done at the manufacturer. Check out the name on the motherboard...I'm betting it'll either be a Space Wars or Vectorbeam board. Steven S Ozdemir sso@plpt.com (my company renamed itself in Feb) sso@dsc.com (good for a few more months) ozdemir@xenon.stanford.edu (permanent...weekly) ps - I never did check out the dip switches on that Rip Off on a Space Wars motherboard. They must have desoldered the small dip to put the 8 dip package. Funny that I didn't verify that... >---------- >From: jeffh@diac.com[SMTP:jeffh@diac.com] >Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 2:25 PM >To: vectorlist@spies.com >Cc: jeffh@diac.com >Subject: More Star Castle info > >Here's some more info on this star castle. >The game board has lots of jumper wires on it, including a wire on every >eprom. Again, there is no LED on the main PCB. (When did they start putting >those on?) The sound board just says sound board on it, but it looks real >close to what a normal star castle sound board looks like. (I plan on >comparing it side by side when I get a chance). >The control panel has the start buttons in the middle (instead of off to >the left). The panel is black and the buttons are all labeled with white >letters. The marquee looks close to the original, but the artwork is a >little different and it doesn't have all the small print. The marquee has a >90 degree bend that runs horizontally through the middle of it (so the top >half of the marquee angles up and the bottom half angles down) >I can't find any manufacturer name on the outside of the game, and I >haven't looked close enough at the main board to see if I can find a name >on it, but it does look like a standard cinematronics/vectorbeam board (I >was looking through the coin door because I have my garage packed full >again) >I think this game is from texas, did cinematronics have any test sights >down there? > >-jeff > >jeffh@diac.com > >Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. >www.diac.com/~jeffh/ > > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 1 18:43:22 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 18:42:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199804020241.VAA20007@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> From: "The Retrodaddy" To: Cc: "Ozdemir, Steve" Subject: Re: More Star Castle info Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:40:07 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "The Retrodaddy" Speaking of Star Castle, a friend of mine just bought one, and upon delivery, all he seems to be getting is powere to the monitor, and popping sounds from the speaker when, and I did not recommend he do this, taps on the power supply. I know little to nothing about it, so have not gone to look at the game and garner further info yet, but was wondering where I should tell hm to start. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 2 08:42:23 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:39:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: More Star Castle info Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:37:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Speaking of Star Castle, a friend of mine just bought one, and upon > delivery, all he seems to be getting is powere to the monitor, and > popping > sounds from the speaker when, and I did not recommend he do this, taps > on > the power supply. I know little to nothing about it, so have not gone > to > look at the game and garner further info yet, but was wondering where > I > should tell hm to start. > Huh. I'd suspect cold solder joints or loose cables/connectors on the power supply. (Tapping on it makes a brief connection and gets power to the audio amps briefly resulting in the "pops".) Check the voltage rails to see if the voltages are right-- if any are missing or off I'd give the power-supply a thorough visual inspection and see if you can spot loose connections and/or broken solder joints. -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 2 09:12:12 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:10:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 11:09:28 -0600 From: Mike Benedict Subject: RE: More Star Castle info In-reply-to: X-Sender: benedict_m@pop.palmer.edu To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-id: <3.0.3.32.19980402110928.00c1ca70@pop.palmer.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mike Benedict At 08:37 AM 4/2/98 -0800, you wrote: >Check the voltage rails to see if the voltages are right-- if any are >missing or off I'd give the power-supply a thorough visual inspection >and see if you can spot loose connections and/or broken solder joints. The RipOff I'm working on had loose connections on the screw terminals of the two large capacitors. The old circuit breakers ought to be replaced as well. Mike Benedict From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 2 18:20:56 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:20:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:20:15 -0800 (PST) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Cine/VB game release dates Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) I'm slowly trying to fill in the month of release for the games in the bronzeage list, and thought maybe someone on this list would know 1) when the cine - vectorbeam split happened and vectorbeam's Space War came out, 2) when they merged again, and if these release dates are right Space Wars cin Oct,1977 (AMOA show) Space War vb ??,1978 ? Scramble vb Oct,1978 (mentioned in AMOA show summary) Barrier vb ??,1979 Speed Freak vb Mar,1979 (mentioned in Vending Times) Star Hawk cin Mar,1979 (mentioned in Vending Times) Sundance cin Oct,1979 (AMOA show) Tail gunner cin Oct,1979 (AMOA show) Warrior vb Oct,1979 (AMOA show) War of the Worlds cin ??.1979 Rip Off cin Apr,1980 (vending times) Rip Off (ct) centuri Oct,1980 (AMOA show) Star Castle cin Sep,1980 (vending times) Star Castle rockola Dec,1980 (vending times) TG II exidy ?? From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 2 22:45:28 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:45:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 00:45:49 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Need BnW XY parts BAD!!! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) OK, the situation is now INTOLERABLE. I simply *MUST* fix some of these black and white vector monitors. The simplest thing I need is a source for the HV Diodes. NTE evidently is no longer making them but there should be PLENTY of stock out there if people look around. I need 2 but could use a few spares. I also need a source for the neon bulbs. And I seem to recall that it was acceptible/suggested that the BIG resistors (R100/101) be replaced by heavy guage wire, right? If not, I need to know if these resistors are special in any way. Any tips (I haven't done much on the BnW ones) besides the bad solder joints? From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 2 23:40:12 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:40:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:39:59 -0800 (PST) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Need BnW XY parts BAD!!! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) "The simplest thing I need is a source for the HV Diodes." Have you tried the ones in B&W raster monitors? From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 03:50:15 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 03:49:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980403064818.00842b90@se.mediaone.net> X-Sender: dpage@se.mediaone.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 06:48:18 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: DP Subject: Re: Need BnW XY parts BAD!!! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: DP I replaced my resitors with heavy wire and have seen no ill effects, by doing this. Dave At 12:45 AM 4/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >OK, the situation is now INTOLERABLE. I simply *MUST* fix some of these >black and white vector monitors. The simplest thing I need is a source for >the HV Diodes. NTE evidently is no longer making them but there should be >PLENTY of stock out there if people look around. I need 2 but could use a >few spares. I also need a source for the neon bulbs. And I seem to recall >that it was acceptible/suggested that the BIG resistors (R100/101) be >replaced by heavy guage wire, right? If not, I need to know if these >resistors are special in any way. Any tips (I haven't done much on the BnW >ones) besides the bad solder joints? > > > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 05:52:03 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 05:51:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:50:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Need BnW XY parts BAD!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Gregg Woodcock wrote: > OK, the situation is now INTOLERABLE. I simply *MUST* fix some of these > black and white vector monitors. The simplest thing I need is a source for > the HV Diodes. NTE evidently is no longer making them but there should be According to the info I supplied for Jes's page, you can use an SK7333 or NTE 527A Mouser's web site lists both as available as of 8:51 EST this morning. -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 09:19:06 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:17:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Cinematronics vector generator... Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:16:10 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Hi everybody. I was playing with the Cinematronics vector generator last night in Electronics Workbench (a spice simulator). I have a couple questions that maybe someone knows the answers to. Otherwise I'm going to try to measure it with a DSO over the weekend... ;-) From playing with my (fairly) realistic model, it looks like the time for the output to react to a change in voltage at the DAC is about 1us. Does this sound realistic? Seemed kinda fast to me. (I think this is while in "DRAW" mode-- voltage going through the 10K+5Kpot series current limiter. Maybe I screwed up and had it in "INIT" mode... Hmmm.) Do any of you know what the "clipping" (z blank) timing is? For example-- when watching the output on the "virtual scope" in Electronics Workbench it looks like the linear portion of each charging curve starts about 50ns after the new voltage is applied. From there it's pretty linear out to about 150ns or so. Is z-blanking software controlled? Seems like 50ns is pretty tight timing to keep, but since it's also the period of the 20MHz clock it seemed like a strange number to show up "accidentally". (I'm wondering if the clipping is done in hardware and starts automatically one clock tick after the DAC is loaded and lasts for two clock ticks after it.) Anyway, it just seemed really fast, so I'm hoping for a reality check. (This might be explained if I had the thing running with the "INIT" switch closed instead of "DRAW"... Up too late-- don't remember.) I also put in that weird-ass bridge rectifier-resistor *thing* in the feedback loop of the output Op-amp. It looks like it kinda flattens out the charge curve of the cap, but it also looked like it was screwing up the discharge curve shape. Maybe I had it wired wrong (or it confused SPICE, which really shouldn't happen)... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 09:38:43 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:38:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <35251D5E.CCE@links.magenta.com> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 10:33:18 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Cinematronics vector generator... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Hi everybody. > > I was playing with the Cinematronics vector generator last night in > Electronics Workbench (a spice simulator). How do you like Electronics Workbench, I was considering getting it? jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 10:30:33 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:30:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Cine/VB game release dates Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 18:30:25 GMT Message-ID: <3526299c.82954306@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:20:15 -0800 (PST), aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) wrote: > > >I'm slowly trying to fill in the month of release for the >games in the bronzeage list, and thought maybe someone on >this list would know 1) when the cine - vectorbeam split >happened and vectorbeam's Space War came out, 2) when >they merged again, and if these release dates are right > >Space Wars cin Oct,1977 (AMOA show) >Space War vb ??,1978 ? >Scramble vb Oct,1978 (mentioned in AMOA show summary) >Barrier vb ??,1979 >Speed Freak vb Mar,1979 (mentioned in Vending Times) >Star Hawk cin Mar,1979 (mentioned in Vending Times) >Sundance cin Oct,1979 (AMOA show) >Tail gunner cin Oct,1979 (AMOA show) >Warrior vb Oct,1979 (AMOA show) >War of the Worlds cin ??.1979 Since this game uses a hacked Star Castle sound board, at least the ones = that made it to the arcades, must have been after Star Castle. (Mine uses a = Star Castle Rev. B sound board). I also know that this game was worked on for a long time, by quite a few programmers so no telling when it was conceived. Paul seems to have more information on this game than I do. -Zonn (BTW If it means anything, I'll be gone all next week exploring the back = canyon lands of Death Valley. So if I don't reply to some e-mail, for a week, = it's not because I'm being rude. If I don't reply for two weeks, it IS because = I'm being rude.) <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 10:35:15 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:34:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Cinematronics vector generator... Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 18:35:15 GMT Message-ID: <35272b4a.83384342@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:16:10 -0800 , Clay Cowgill = wrote: >Hi everybody. > >I was playing with the Cinematronics vector generator last night in >Electronics Workbench (a spice simulator). > >I have a couple questions that maybe someone knows the answers to. >Otherwise I'm going to try to measure it with a DSO over the weekend... >;-) > > From playing with my (fairly) realistic model, it looks like the time >for the output to react to a change in voltage at the DAC is about 1us. >Does this sound realistic? Seemed kinda fast to me. (I think this is >while in "DRAW" mode-- voltage going through the 10K+5Kpot series >current limiter. Maybe I screwed up and had it in "INIT" mode... Hmmm.) > >Do any of you know what the "clipping" (z blank) timing is? For >example-- when watching the output on the "virtual scope" in Electronics >Workbench it looks like the linear portion of each charging curve starts >about 50ns after the new voltage is applied. From there it's pretty >linear out to about 150ns or so. Is z-blanking software controlled? The z-blanking is hardware controlled by placing a value in the Line = Length counter. >Seems like 50ns is pretty tight timing to keep, but since it's also the >period of the 20MHz clock it seemed like a strange number to show up >"accidentally". (I'm wondering if the clipping is done in hardware and >starts automatically one clock tick after the DAC is loaded and lasts >for two clock ticks after it.) Can't help you here, I have no idea what value this time should be. >Anyway, it just seemed really fast, so I'm hoping for a reality check. >(This might be explained if I had the thing running with the "INIT" >switch closed instead of "DRAW"... Up too late-- don't remember.) > >I also put in that weird-ass bridge rectifier-resistor *thing* in the >feedback loop of the output Op-amp. It looks like it kinda flattens out >the charge curve of the cap, but it also looked like it was screwing up >the discharge curve shape. Maybe I had it wired wrong (or it confused >SPICE, which really shouldn't happen)... The weird-ass bridge is there for the blooming effect of the CRT toward = the edges. As the output of the OP amp get higher, the gain is changed to compensate for the bloom. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 10:49:18 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:49:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199804031849.NAA21929@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Cinematronics vector generator... To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:49:58 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Clay Cowgill" at Apr 3, 98 09:16:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Paul Kahler Clay wrote: > I was playing with the Cinematronics vector generator last night in > Electronics Workbench (a spice simulator). > > I have a couple questions that maybe someone knows the answers to. > Otherwise I'm going to try to measure it with a DSO over the weekend... > ;-) > > From playing with my (fairly) realistic model, it looks like the time > for the output to react to a change in voltage at the DAC is about 1us. > Does this sound realistic? Seemed kinda fast to me. (I think this is > while in "DRAW" mode-- voltage going through the 10K+5Kpot series > current limiter. Maybe I screwed up and had it in "INIT" mode... Hmmm.) What do you mean by "react"? I would think the output starts changing almost immediately - the DAC just feeds an RC circuit, so as soon as there is a change at the DAC it should move. Read on. > Do any of you know what the "clipping" (z blank) timing is? For > example-- when watching the output on the "virtual scope" in Electronics > Workbench it looks like the linear portion of each charging curve starts > about 50ns after the new voltage is applied. From there it's pretty > linear out to about 150ns or so. Is z-blanking software controlled? > Seems like 50ns is pretty tight timing to keep, but since it's also the > period of the 20MHz clock it seemed like a strange number to show up > "accidentally". (I'm wondering if the clipping is done in hardware and > starts automatically one clock tick after the DAC is loaded and lasts > for two clock ticks after it.) The Z blanking is controlled in hardware, however vectors may be drawn over various amounts of the charging curve. Here's the deal: The beam is moved "fast" to the start of a line. Then you load the deltaX,Y into the accumulators and execute the Normalize instruction. This does a couple things (Zonn's docs cover this a bit). The deltas are repeatedly left shifted (doubling the line length) until bits 9 & 11 are different. That means a line will always be lengthened until it is at least 512 units long. With each doubling, the line-length counter is updated. The line length counter is responsible for stopping the drawing at the "real" or unmodified end of the line. Once the "modified" deltas are calculated the software must add the starting coordinates to get the "modified end point" (which is some distance beyond the real end point) then a DRAWTO is executed which: 1) outputs the endpoint to the DACs 2) engages the 13331 switches which use the resistors (RC for slow mode) 3) enables the line length counter and finally 4) when the line length overflows (I think it counts UP) it Z-blanks and turns off the 13331 switches so the beam doesn't keep going to the target point (which was set way beyond the real end pt). Blah. Anyway, for a short line, the "targeted" end point may be say 32 times farther away than the real end point. While a long line, the targeted point may only be twice as far away. This means the percentage of the charging curve used can vary quite a bit. Because of the left shifting, there are only about 9 different amounts of time used for line drawing - depending of how many shifts it takes to reach "really long". > Anyway, it just seemed really fast, so I'm hoping for a reality check. > (This might be explained if I had the thing running with the "INIT" > switch closed instead of "DRAW"... Up too late-- don't remember.) It should respond quite fast. It seems like there is something that keeps the Z-blank blank for a brief instant while the beam is "stuck" - i.e. before it gets going. So I guess movement isn't instantaneous. > I also put in that weird-ass bridge rectifier-resistor *thing* in the > feedback loop of the output Op-amp. It looks like it kinda flattens out > the charge curve of the cap, but it also looked like it was screwing up > the discharge curve shape. Maybe I had it wired wrong (or it confused > SPICE, which really shouldn't happen)... I thought that weird-ass thing was the cinematronics way to compensate for nonlinearity in monitor deflection. Notice that X & Y are not coupled like Atari did. BTW, I was thinking of running the un-weird-assed CineSignals down to my space duel board (via X-invert, Y-invert) so they'd go through the 1492s for pincousioning. I could then use the "invert" signal to select Cine or Atari output :-) Of course there isn't a good way to hook into the Atari color outputs... Yep, when I have the CineMenu working I plan to add Space Duel as an option and just install it in that cabinet! :-) Even if I have to use relays. Too Bad Gravitar & Black Widow aren't able to run on the Space Duel board or the other way round. Anyone looked into this??? -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 11:07:41 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:07:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <35253230.1AB2@links.magenta.com> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 12:02:08 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Cinematronics vector generator... References: <199804031849.NAA21929@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Paul Kahler wrote: Too Bad Gravitar & Black Widow aren't able to > run on the Space Duel board or the other way round. Anyone looked into > this??? Space Duel should be able to run on a Gravitar/BW boardset. The Vector Generators are the same I think. The differences that I can remember are just that the B/BW boards have more CPU memory mapped. Im not totally sure on this though. I will have to dig through my schems. jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 11:39:37 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:39:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:38:13 -0600 Message-Id: <199804031938.NAA05565@moe.works.ti.com> From: Michael Schulz To: vectorlist@spies.com In-Reply-To: <35253230.1AB2@links.magenta.com> (message from Jess Askey on Fri, 03 Apr 1998 12:02:08 -0700) Subject: Nightmare? (Was: Re: Cinematronics vector generator...) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Michael Schulz >> Too Bad Gravitar & Black Widow aren't able to >> run on the Space Duel board or the other way round. Anyone looked into >> this??? >> >Space Duel should be able to run on a Gravitar/BW boardset. The Vector >Generators are the same I think. The differences that I can remember are >just that the B/BW boards have more CPU memory mapped. Im not totally >sure on this though. I will have to dig through my schems. > Hey, that reminds me... Clay, what's the status on the Nightmare project? I've got my extra Food Fight boardset ready to turn into a Nightmare boardset... :-) Mike -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Schulz | Texas Instruments, SpecWorks Software Design Engineer | (972) 927-5847, mschulz@ti.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- The opinions and views expressed are my own, and do ------------- ----------- not necessarily reflect those of Texas Instruments Inc. ----------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 13:01:50 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:01:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980403125523.049b1ec0@frobozz.qualcomm.com> X-Sender: sswazey@frobozz.qualcomm.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 12:55:23 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Scott Swazey Subject: Space Duel on BW/GT PCB (Was Re: Cinematronics vector gen) Cc: Paul Kahler In-Reply-To: <199804031849.NAA21929@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Scott Swazey At 01:49 PM 4/3/98 -0500, Paul Kahler wrote: [...] >Too Bad Gravitar & Black Widow aren't able to run on the Space Duel >board or the other way round. Anyone looked into this??? I think it is possilble to run SD on a BW/GT board set. I've got both boards and I am willing to try it, but I need schematics for the BW or GT (B-Size please :-). [Oops, Just found the B-size ones on spies] I talked to Gaymond 6 months ago about this. He said he had, at one time, a prototype GT/BW made from a hacked up SD. Comparing the two PCBs, the major difference, aside from RAM/ROM sizes, was that SD did not have the DAC_REF scaling DAC (i.e. no linear scaling) installed. However, this may not be a problem as the SD software may initialize it even though it's not there. I'll post an update in a few weeks. -Scott BTW Paul, I've got one of the Star castle clones PCB that has the DAC on the main board. It works with a XY scope (or WG xy), last time I used it. I think I also added the bank extention to allow it to run solar quest. I'd be willing to loan it to you for the sake of the cine menu project. I'm just not sure how fast I can get it to you. LMK -S Scott Swazey QUALCOMM Incorporated Work: (619) 657-2419 mailto:sswazey@qualcomm.com V-209H Pager:(619) 683-5210 From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 13:05:48 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:05:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:05:43 -0800 (PST) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Space Duel on BW/GT PCB (Was Re: Cinematronics vector gen) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) "BTW Paul, I've got one of the Star castle clones PCB that has the DAC on the main board." If you get a chance, could you take a picture of it, to add to the ones I have on spies? From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 13:07:39 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:07:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:07:35 -0800 (PST) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Space Duel on BW/GT PCB (Was Re: Cinematronics vector gen) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Jess said he was going to send down the gravitar drawings for me to scan in. I'm slowly working through scanning all the C and D sized drawings I have over at a place with a 400dpi 'E' sized scanner From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 17:22:54 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:21:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Cinematronics vector generator... Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:20:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > > From playing with my (fairly) realistic model, it looks like the > time > > for the output to react to a change in voltage at the DAC is about > 1us. > > Does this sound realistic? Seemed kinda fast to me. (I think this > is > > while in "DRAW" mode-- voltage going through the 10K+5Kpot series > > current limiter. Maybe I screwed up and had it in "INIT" mode... > Hmmm.) > > What do you mean by "react"? I would think the output starts changing > almost > immediately - the DAC just feeds an RC circuit, so as soon as there is > a change at the DAC it should move. Read on. > Crap. Major typo. "reach" not "react". > > Do any of you know what the "clipping" (z blank) timing is? For > > example-- when watching the output on the "virtual scope" in > Electronics > > Workbench it looks like the linear portion of each charging curve > starts > > about 50ns after the new voltage is applied. From there it's pretty > > linear out to about 150ns or so. Is z-blanking software controlled? > > Seems like 50ns is pretty tight timing to keep, but since it's also > the > > period of the 20MHz clock it seemed like a strange number to show up > > "accidentally". (I'm wondering if the clipping is done in hardware > and > > starts automatically one clock tick after the DAC is loaded and > lasts > > for two clock ticks after it.) > > The Z blanking is controlled in hardware, however vectors may be drawn > over various amounts of the charging curve. Here's the deal: > The beam is moved "fast" to the start of a line. Then you load the > deltaX,Y > into the accumulators and execute the Normalize instruction. This does > a [...] > counts UP) it Z-blanks and turns off the 13331 switches so the beam > doesn't > keep going to the target point (which was set way beyond the real end > pt). > > Blah. Anyway, for a short line, the "targeted" end point may be say 32 > times > farther away than the real end point. While a long line, the targeted > point > may only be twice as far away. This means the percentage of the > charging > curve used can vary quite a bit. Because of the left shifting, there > are > only about 9 different amounts of time used for line drawing - > depending > of how many shifts it takes to reach "really long". > Ahhh. I think that makes sense now. So they actually change the voltage appearing at the output of the DACs as the line is drawn. (by powers of two anyway) From my reading of the Cinematronics manual I thought they just put the potential at the input of the cap/opamp circuit and clipped that for the line. (Since the cap has to charge, the curve is pretty non-linear for the first 50ns, then stays pretty good for the next 150ns, then goes way nonlinear after that.) I take it they blank Z at first to avoid the non-linear portion, turn beam on (staying in the linear region), then put new outputs on the DAC and "elongate" the linear portion until they reach the destination. Funky. > > Anyway, it just seemed really fast, so I'm hoping for a reality > check. > > (This might be explained if I had the thing running with the "INIT" > > switch closed instead of "DRAW"... Up too late-- don't remember.) > > It should respond quite fast. It seems like there is something that > keeps > the Z-blank blank for a brief instant while the beam is "stuck" - i.e. > before it gets going. So I guess movement isn't instantaneous. > Right. The charge curve of the cap is a little steep at first... > > I also put in that weird-ass bridge rectifier-resistor *thing* in > the > > feedback loop of the output Op-amp. It looks like it kinda flattens > out > > the charge curve of the cap, but it also looked like it was screwing > up > > the discharge curve shape. Maybe I had it wired wrong (or it > confused > > SPICE, which really shouldn't happen)... > > I thought that weird-ass thing was the cinematronics way to compensate > for nonlinearity in monitor deflection. Notice that X & Y are not > coupled > like Atari did. > Yeah, that was how I remembered it too, but I sure couldn't "see" how it was working. > BTW, I was thinking of running the un-weird-assed CineSignals down to > my > space duel board (via X-invert, Y-invert) so they'd go through the > 1492s > for pincousioning. I could then use the "invert" signal to select Cine > or Atari output :-) > I was going to try the same thing with the pincushion-corrector I have bread-boarded up. (Since it's variable and all.) Might be interesting. From looking at the Space Fortress DAC board there isn't any correction in that circuit... (just looks like the Cinematronics circuit, but with a little integrator on the output.) Thanks for the explanations-- helps a lot. -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 17:25:43 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:25:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Nightmare? (Was: Re: Cinematronics vector generator...) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:24:34 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Hey, that reminds me... > > Clay, what's the status on the Nightmare project? > > I've got my extra Food Fight boardset ready to turn into a > Nightmare boardset... :-) > Ahhh, yes. ;-) I've got the original Nightmare stuff out again until I got distracted by the latest run of "interesting" Vector stuff... Not much since the last update. I found a bunch of the OKI5218 ADPCM chips on old telephone-system voicemail boards, so I can do the sound part. The daughtercard will be very Sega-multigame like. I think I have that all worked out. The part I haven't done yet is just what needs to change on the actual Food Fight PCB. I need to decide how involved that needs to be, or if I can just add duplicate logic on my daughtercard and have my own decoders. It'll take a while longer-- after I finish this Rev 3 ESB stuff... -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 17:50:33 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:50:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Cinematronics vector generator... Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:48:41 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > How do you like Electronics Workbench, I was considering getting it? > jess > I like it, although I don't necessarily *trust* it completely. Have to make a few more circuits and see if they really do mimic the "modeled" behavior. It's probably right though-- some of the guys I worked with used it a lot at Iomega and Megahertz for real design-work, so it must be pretty reliable... All in all it seems nice. I called and mentioned an old flyer I had that had a $199 special price instead of the $299 current one and said I'd buy it if they'd give me the old price-- they went for it. Really nice for figuring out how weird analog stuff works. ;-) -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 19:07:25 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:06:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:07:30 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: question, and SW/ESB kit update... Cc: Clay Cowgill Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 16:53 3/30/98, Clay Cowgill wrote: Anyway, I need to experiment a little with the >NOVRAM and then I should be able to have boards made. (I want to use >one of those Dallas battery-backed SRAMs instead of the X22C12 novrams, >but I'm not sure if that'll cause problems outside of self-test.) Just please make sure the board will have (unpopulated) sockets for 2 Xicors, too; I have a bunch of spares! From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 19:44:13 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:44:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 22:43:11 -0500 (EST) From: Jeff Anderson X-Sender: mayday19@u2.farm.idt.net To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: WTB: Gravitar Board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jeff Anderson I need one of these soon for a friend of mine.. LMK, Jeff From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 3 23:01:39 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 23:01:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 00:04:34 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: Cine/VB game release dates Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) This weird star castle that I have has a date written on the motherboard of 12/5/78. Maybe I'll pop out the roms and stick them in my working star castle board and see if it looks any different. I looked at the motherboard and it says cinematronics (not vectorbeam). And the cabinet is not a converted rip off or armor attack cabinet. -jeff >I'm slowly trying to fill in the month of release for the >games in the bronzeage list, and thought maybe someone on >this list would know 1) when the cine - vectorbeam split >happened and vectorbeam's Space War came out, 2) when >they merged again, and if these release dates are right > >Space Wars cin Oct,1977 (AMOA show) >Space War vb ??,1978 ? >Scramble vb Oct,1978 (mentioned in AMOA show summary) >Barrier vb ??,1979 >Speed Freak vb Mar,1979 (mentioned in Vending Times) >Star Hawk cin Mar,1979 (mentioned in Vending Times) >Sundance cin Oct,1979 (AMOA show) >Tail gunner cin Oct,1979 (AMOA show) >Warrior vb Oct,1979 (AMOA show) >War of the Worlds cin ??.1979 >Rip Off cin Apr,1980 (vending times) >Rip Off (ct) centuri Oct,1980 (AMOA show) >Star Castle cin Sep,1980 (vending times) >Star Castle rockola Dec,1980 (vending times) >TG II exidy ?? jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 01:44:11 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:43:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980406014239.006c19d0@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: gblee@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 01:42:39 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Gaymond Lee Subject: Re: Nightmare? (Was: Re: Cinematronics vector generator...) In-Reply-To: <199804031938.NAA05565@moe.works.ti.com> References: <35253230.1AB2@links.magenta.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Gaymond Lee 3At 01:38 PM 4/3/98 -0600, you wrote: > >>> Too Bad Gravitar & Black Widow aren't able to >>> run on the Space Duel board or the other way round. Anyone looked into >>> this??? >>> >>Space Duel should be able to run on a Gravitar/BW boardset. The Vector >>Generators are the same I think. The differences that I can remember are >>just that the B/BW boards have more CPU memory mapped. Im not totally >>sure on this though. I will have to dig through my schems. >> The prototype of Gravitar (Lunar Battle) used a modified Space Duel pcb. Gaymond Lee From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 08:54:36 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:52:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: question, and SW/ESB kit update... Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:50:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Just please make sure the board will have (unpopulated) sockets for 2 > Xicors, > too; I have a bunch of spares! > It'll be one or the other. After looking at it though I might just go ahead and use the double-Xicors anyway. (It works, it's done, probably shouldn't mess with it...) -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 12:08:42 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:08:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:06:55 +0100 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Battlezone Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) I got my battlezone working, so now I have a 2nd battlezone and it's very close to working also (I just need to fix the sound on the aux PCB). Is anybody interested in buying one? I really don't have room for it and I don't want to store it for a year, so If nobody is interested in it, I might part it out. I also have a space duel that's almost restored that I'm also selling. -jeff jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 12:51:47 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:51:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:50:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@spies.com cc: Jeff Hendrix Subject: Re: Battlezone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Jeff Hendrix wrote: > I got my battlezone working, so now I have a 2nd battlezone and it's very > close to working also (I just need to fix the sound on the aux PCB). Is > anybody interested in buying one? > I really don't have room for it and I don't want to store it for a year, so > If nobody is interested in it, I might part it out. Well, I will NOT let you part it out, especially if it's that close to working. However, if someone closer to you wants it, I would rather not get involved in shipping across country. But I'll save it if it comes to that. -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 12:58:05 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:57:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <9804062007.AA25187@Techsource.COM> From: "omar" To: Subject: Re: Battlezone Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:01:21 -0400 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "omar" I've got a question for some of you who have been on vectorlist for a while. Every once in a while a for sale post like this comes through. I understand that the author is letting us know about a possible deal before the rest of the collecting community. Is this ok to do? I have put some vector stuff up in rgvac without posting it here first and I just wanted to get a general feeling if you guys would rather I mentioned it here first? Any input is appreciated. Thanks. Omar ---------- > From: Jeff Hendrix > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: Jeff Hendrix > Subject: Battlezone > Date: Monday, April 06, 1998 8:06 AM > > I got my battlezone working, so now I have a 2nd battlezone and it's very > close to working also (I just need to fix the sound on the aux PCB). Is > anybody interested in buying one? > I really don't have room for it and I don't want to store it for a year, so > If nobody is interested in it, I might part it out. > > I also have a space duel that's almost restored that I'm also selling. > > -jeff > > jeffh@diac.com > > Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. > www.diac.com/~jeffh/ > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 13:16:41 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:16:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 16:11:51 -0400 From: David D Humphrey Subject: Electrohome B/W monitor transistors In-reply-to: X-Sender: david.d.humphrey@aberdeen.frb.org (Unverified) To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-id: <7717AE2C58B.AAA17A9@aberdeen.frb.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Demo Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: David D Humphrey Anybody know of a good source for the deflection transistors on the B/W Electrohome Monitors? I'm looking for the MPS-U05 and the MPS-U57's in this case (not the 3716's et. al.) On a similar note, will this help my pincussioning on the screen, there aren't too many cap.s to replace if I get the cap. kit, and I can't see 'em doing too much... (I mean there are what... 4 - 2.2microF cap.s?) Ace From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 13:24:32 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:23:23 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Electrohome B/W monitor transistors In-Reply-To: <7717AE2C58B.AAA17A9@aberdeen.frb.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, David D Humphrey wrote: > Anybody know of a good source for the deflection transistors on the B/W > Electrohome Monitors? I'm looking for the MPS-U05 and the MPS-U57's in > this case (not the 3716's et. al.) > Your best bet is to get the NTE replacements. I tried (unsuccessfully) to track down the MPS-U07s. Circuit Specialists lists them in their catalog, but when I ordered some, they told me that they were discontinued and they couldn't get any more. Of course, if anyone knows some other source..... Joe From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 13:44:43 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:44:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:45:09 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: Need BnW XY parts BAD!!! Cc: "Christopher X. Candreva" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 8:50 4/3/98, Christopher X. Candreva wrote: >On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Gregg Woodcock wrote: > >> OK, the situation is now INTOLERABLE. I simply *MUST* fix some of these >> black and white vector monitors. The simplest thing I need is a source for >> the HV Diodes. NTE evidently is no longer making them but there should be > >According to the info I supplied for Jes's page, you can use an SK7333 or >NTE 527A Mouser's web site lists both as available as of 8:51 EST this >morning. Mouser is, of course, out of stock on NTE (MD part) but have back-ordered (3-6 weeks) the SK7333 part for me. FYI... From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 14:00:39 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:00:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199804062059.QAA20790@vela.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Battlezone To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:59:26 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <9804062007.AA25187@Techsource.COM> from "omar" at Apr 6, 98 04:01:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Paul Kahler > I've got a question for some of you who have been on vectorlist for a > while. Every once in a while a for sale post like this comes through. I > understand that the author is letting us know about a possible deal before > the rest of the collecting community. Is this ok to do? I have put some > vector stuff up in rgvac without posting it here first and I just wanted to > get a general feeling if you guys would rather I mentioned it here first? > Any input is appreciated. Thanks. Vector stuff for sale is not really off-topic here, but it might not be cool if there was a LOT of it. My observations/feeling is that there is more a sense of "friendship" (or something similar) among the readers - or at least the frequent posters - of vectorlist, so posting FS here is like giving your friends first choice on stuff (sometimes at reduced price). There are also more "hardcore" vector collectors and old-timers here, so you're targeting your ad better (yuk, I don't like the sound of that). These are just my opinions, so someone else may have facts that differ. Al should have a more difinitive answer. -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 14:16:30 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:16:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <35294639.4C39@an.hp.com> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 17:16:41 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Battlezone References: <199804062059.QAA20790@vela.acs.oakland.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Joel Rosenzweig Paul Kahler wrote: > > > I've got a question for some of you who have been on vectorlist for a > > while. Every once in a while a for sale post like this comes through. I > > understand that the author is letting us know about a possible deal before > > the rest of the collecting community. Is this ok to do? I have put some > > vector stuff up in rgvac without posting it here first and I just wanted to > > get a general feeling if you guys would rather I mentioned it here first? > > Any input is appreciated. Thanks. Given that it's a fact of life of collecting that we'll be buying and selling video games and related items, I like "being in the loop" when it comes to vector game related paraphenalia. I appreciate the random FS post since it's always on topic to vector games, and it arrives directly to my mailbox without having to go anywhere. :-) Anyway, that's obviously just my opinion! Last night, I had a dream that there was a vector version of Return of the Jedi. It was a good dream. I'd swear, it was a real game. It's a shame they went the way of the raster when this game came out. Perhaps, someday, one of us will be motivated enough to write some code for the Star Wars platform and make a better version... Hmm.. my todo list is starting to shrink. (Can't let that happen now .. ) Clay, you're working on disassembling the Star Wars code, right? Did you say you have a processor pod for the 6809 and your logic analyzer? Sure sure, ESB shields first, then we need to get to the good stuff! Joel- From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 14:19:26 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:19:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:17:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@spies.com cc: Gregg Woodcock Subject: Re: Need BnW XY parts BAD!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Gregg Woodcock wrote: > Mouser is, of course, out of stock on NTE (MD part) but have back-ordered > (3-6 weeks) the SK7333 part for me. FYI... I'm sure there is another part that is also "compatible". I think this one is actually over-sized based on the original spec. Eventually, however, I think it will just be rediculous overkill. ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 14:57:22 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:57:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:57:00 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Need BnW XY parts BAD!!! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) "I'm sure there is another part that is also "compatible"." the probem is motorola 'uniwatt' transitor packages have an odd pinout. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 15:04:08 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:04:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:04:03 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Battlezone Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) "Al should have a more difinitive answer." I don't think I could have said it better, Paul. I hope we all consider each other friends here. BTW, I just dug back in my mail archive, and the list was created Apr 16 of 1997. I did a wc on the list file, and there is just under 100 people on it as of today. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 15:16:48 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:16:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <9804062226.AA26229@Techsource.COM> From: "omar" To: Subject: Re: Battlezone Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:19:17 -0400 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "omar" Well, given that I will soon have a Space Duel CT up for sale. If anyone's interested in the details please e-mail me directly. Thanks. Omar omar@techsource.com ---------- > From: Joel Rosenzweig > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: Joel Rosenzweig > Subject: Re: Battlezone > Date: Monday, April 06, 1998 5:16 PM > > Paul Kahler wrote: > > > > > I've got a question for some of you who have been on vectorlist for a > > > while. Every once in a while a for sale post like this comes through. I > > > understand that the author is letting us know about a possible deal before > > > the rest of the collecting community. Is this ok to do? I have put some > > > vector stuff up in rgvac without posting it here first and I just wanted to > > > get a general feeling if you guys would rather I mentioned it here first? > > > Any input is appreciated. Thanks. > > Given that it's a fact of life of collecting that we'll be buying and > selling video games and related items, I like "being in the loop" when > it comes to vector game related paraphenalia. I appreciate the random > FS post since it's always on topic to vector games, and it arrives > directly to my mailbox without having to go anywhere. :-) > > Anyway, that's obviously just my opinion! > > Last night, I had a dream that there was a vector version of Return of > the Jedi. It was a good dream. I'd swear, it was a real game. It's a > shame they went the way of the raster when this game came out. Perhaps, > someday, one of us will be motivated enough to write some code for the > Star Wars platform and make a better version... Hmm.. my todo list is > starting to shrink. (Can't let that happen now .. ) > > Clay, you're working on disassembling the Star Wars code, right? Did > you say you have a processor pod for the 6809 and your logic analyzer? > Sure sure, ESB shields first, then we need to get to the good stuff! > > Joel- From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 15:48:13 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:47:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3528B28F.44B7@links.magenta.com> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 04:46:39 -0600 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Battlezone References: <9804062007.AA25187@Techsource.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey omar wrote: > > I've got a question for some of you who have been on vectorlist for a > while. Every once in a while a for sale post like this comes through. I > understand that the author is letting us know about a possible deal before > the rest of the collecting community. Is this ok to do? I have put some > vector stuff up in rgvac without posting it here first and I just wanted to > get a general feeling if you guys would rather I mentioned it here first? > Any input is appreciated. Thanks. I don't mind personally. I think that as long as it is vector related, we would all be interested in hearing about the occasional game FS. jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 17:15:21 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:15:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:15:07 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Midway "EARTH FRIEND MISSION" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) There was a mention of "Earth-Friend" as a possible other Midway vector game. I received a reply to my posting from someone who has the storyboard artwork for it. The actual name of the game is "EARTH FRIEND MISSION" "According to the artist, EARTH, FRIEND, MISSION was only "sampled" -- meaning that between 10 and 12 were produced. From the drawings I have, the game used either a color X-Y monitor or a color overlay; in either event, by the time EARTH, FRIEND, MISSION would have been released, the entire industry had changed to color raster games, so I suspect that Midway didn't want to produce a game that would appear "dated" as soon as it was released." From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 17:22:44 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:22:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980406192120.007ce640@mail.tyler.net> X-Sender: tyr53870@mail.tyler.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 19:21:34 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Phil Yellott Subject: Re: Battlezone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Phil Yellott Along the same lines as Jeff, I acquired two Battlezones, and am swapping the best parts to make a fairly decent game. The other has no step, some damaged sides (at the edges of the white, not in the art, should be fixable), a rusty panel, missing the right black handle with button (new sides from Wico are about 6.00 each), both bellows torn :(, no back door, a non-working boardset, and a monitor that wont glow at the neck. I hope no one would be sad if I parted it out..... Though if someone was near Dallas I would love for this to go to someone..... I dont think I can just casually toss a Battlezone in the dump :( Phil P.S. Anyone want some Bzone parts, BTW? - Phil Yellott (pyellott@longview.net) - From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 17:23:12 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:23:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Battlezone Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:21:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Clay, you're working on disassembling the Star Wars code, right? Did > you say you have a processor pod for the 6809 and your logic analyzer? > > Sure sure, ESB shields first, then we need to get to the good stuff! > Yep, but I just found out that the Buster Bros. board I want will go (permanently) dead once the SRAM battery dies, so I have to figure out how to save that first. ;-) (Plus, it sounds like a neat problem.) -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 17:25:47 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:25:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Battlezone Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:24:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Vector stuff for sale is not really off-topic here, but it might not > be > cool if there was a LOT of it. My observations/feeling is that there > is > more a sense of "friendship" (or something similar) among the readers > - > or at least the frequent posters - of vectorlist, so posting FS here > is > like giving your friends first choice on stuff (sometimes at reduced > price). > I kinda view vectorlist as a more focused and friendly version of RGVAC, which has too great of S/N ratio for me anymore. Plus, I find I save a lot of money by not reading it and RGVAM too often... I too like occasional for-sales here for rare and/or "new" stuff (like Jeff/Anders LV2000, Chris' Hummer :-). As long as the ratio stays heavily in favor of discussions (on topic or off *laugh*) I think it's a Good Thing. > There are also more "hardcore" vector collectors and old-timers here, > so > you're targeting your ad better (yuk, I don't like the sound of that). > Hmmmm... Sounds like Paul has a marketing course or two in his background... ;-) His next Cinemenu will probably start off by displaying "SAVE up to 80%!!!!!!" or something... J/K... *grin* -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 17:37:17 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:37:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: PC vector generator... Here's another idea... Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:36:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Ok, one more quick message before I leave. :-) Having thought over the PC-vector generator card again I have a new "compromise" idea... I really like the ADSP2181 (Analog Devices DSP) since it has all the vector RAM, program RAM, processor, ISA interface, etc. essentially built in. I also like the Analog Devices dual 12-bit serial DAC. Unfortunately they're probably not quite enough "oomph" to do a vector generator for *all* the games that are out there... So what I'm thinking is to use the same basic design (just an ISA card with the ADSP-2181 on it) but then add another piece on the "far end" of the DACs... That piece being a replica Atari Analog Vector Generator. Use an analog MUX or two on the card and you can either have a directly-driven voltage output DAC system *or* the AVG. Since the card "firmware" is loaded from the ISA bus you can just load whatever you want to use. (For applications where the direct-method is too slow, use the AVG at the expense of some precision.) The parts of the AVG from the DACs to the outputs are relatively cheap (just op-amps and a couple nice caps), so that's not a big price hit for the flexibility to do either. There's plenty of GPIO on the DSP to control shorting the integrating caps. I should be able to make a voltage output DAC into a current output DAC (for the integrator) with just a resistor, no? Comments? -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 18:06:57 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:06:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <35297C07.547F@erinet.com> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:06:16 -0400 From: James Marous Organization: James Marous, Biomedical Engineer X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Space Duel PS Question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: James Marous Well, I picked up a Space Duel at Saturday's Columbus auction for $100. I replaced a known, good monitor in and as soon as I powered up R101 fried. I don't have schematics for SD lying around, just Tempest. I remember on Tempest that there are 3 lines for the monitor power supply. Two brown wires and a center gray. If I remember right, gray is CT and the browns are the 50VAC, right?? I measured between the two browns on SD and got 23 volts, between the gray and one of the browns I got 60v. Doesn't seem right to me, am I mistaken?? I also seem to remember that if the voltage to the monitor is too low R101 will fry, am I right about that?? Thanks for any info! -- My Homepage! Http://www.erinet.com/jamesm/ mailto:jamesm@erinet.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 18:10:31 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:10:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:10:24 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Space Duel PS Question Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) I have all of the schematics (except for Gravitar) up on www.spies.com/arcade/schemtatics now. You may want to pick up one of Anders' LV2000 kits, as long as you're working on it.. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 18:17:31 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:17:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <35297E7F.6109@erinet.com> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:16:47 -0400 From: James Marous Organization: James Marous, Biomedical Engineer X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Space Duel PS Question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: James Marous Al Kossow wrote: > > I have all of the schematics (except for Gravitar) up on > www.spies.com/arcade/schemtatics now. You may want to pick > up one of Anders' LV2000 kits, as long as you're working on > it.. I already ordered a couple, just waiting for them to get here. I'll get the schematics tonight. Thanks James -- My Homepage! Http://www.erinet.com/jamesm/ mailto:jamesm@erinet.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 18:19:51 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:19:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:19:44 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Space Duel PS Question Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) You might want to wait a few minutes. I just have a pdf file up there now that is 7Mb. I'm transfering each tiff file to make it easier to transfer From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 18:43:08 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:43:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 21:41:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" cc: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: Battlezone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Clay Cowgill wrote: > I too like occasional for-sales here for rare and/or "new" stuff (like > Jeff/Anders LV2000, Chris' Hummer :-). As long as the ratio stays Speaking of which -- I've found a local dealer who is going to buy it. Seems the warranty was activated in January when the contest people bought it, so I can't seel it as 'new' as I hoped. But I'm getting a nice check. So . . . I don't mind the FS posts. I'm getting my shopping list together. Dedicated Major Havoc is still number one -- should anyone know of one for sale. In the meantime, I'm looking for other things to fix. Sigh. Battlezone is tempting. Thing is, while it was one of my regulars as a kid, it just doesn't hold up as well as some of the others. Won't let it die though. -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 19:09:33 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 19:09:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <35298B62.B24891F6@voicenet.com> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 22:11:46 -0400 From: Al Warner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Battlezone References: <3.0.32.19980406192120.007ce640@mail.tyler.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Al Warner Hi Phil (& Everyone Else), I'm trying to find a set of good working BZ controllers. I know I'll never find any reasonably priced in great shape, but all I really need is new microswitches. I've looked around on the net, but havn't found any yet. Does anyone know a good place to get new Cherry E18 switches? I've rigged up some standard ones, but it's really tacky. Hope someone can help, -Al- PS - I could use a less rusty CP too. Phil Yellott wrote: > Along the same lines as Jeff, I acquired two Battlezones, and am swapping > the best parts to make a fairly decent game. The other has no step, some > damaged sides (at the edges of the white, not in the art, should be > fixable), a rusty panel, missing the right black handle with button (new > sides from Wico are about 6.00 each), both bellows torn :(, no back door, a > non-working boardset, and a monitor that wont glow at the neck. > > I hope no one would be sad if I parted it out..... Though if someone was > near Dallas I would love for this to go to someone..... I dont think I can > just casually toss a Battlezone in the dump :( > > Phil > > P.S. Anyone want some Bzone parts, BTW? > - > Phil Yellott (pyellott@longview.net) > - -- ==================================================================== -= Al Warner awarner@voicenet.com =- -= Owner of "Magic Sword", "AmeriDarts", "Final Fight", "Simpsons" =- -= now a completely working "Battlezone" arcade video games. =- -= Dig Emulation, OS/2, Hal Roach Films, and other strange stuff. =- -= See the Magic Sword Project at: =- -= http://www.voicenet.com/~awarner/magswrd =- ==================================================================== From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 23:35:57 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:34:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3529BBC0.1884@istar.ca> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 22:38:08 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: clayc@diamondmm.com Subject: Re: Battlezone References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Clay Cowgill wrote: > > > Clay, you're working on disassembling the Star Wars code, right? Did > > you say you have a processor pod for the 6809 and your logic analyzer? > > > > Sure sure, ESB shields first, then we need to get to the good stuff! > > > Yep, but I just found out that the Buster Bros. board I want will go > (permanently) dead once the SRAM battery dies, so I have to figure out > how to save that first. ;-) (Plus, it sounds like a neat problem.) > > -Clay Hi, Clay! Um, is this a dumb question: Why not change the battery with the power ON? That is unless the battery is part ofthe device as in Dallas Semiconductors 10 year ram. If you can replace the battery, use a pair of jumper wires to jumper a second battery into the circuit, then unsolder the first (use a propane soldering iron to avoid shorting to ground) and replace it with a third battery. The idea here is even if you have a power failure whilst replacing the battery the jumpered second battery will cover for you... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 23:39:16 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:39:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 00:42:16 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: Battlezone Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) I think it's OK to post vector stuff thats for sale on the vectorlist for a couple of reasons. 1) I don't read the newsgroups as often as I use to (too many newer games and lots of flames) 2) If you sell vector stuff here, most of the people will know how to fix it when it breaks and it prevents you from getting bad emails when it does break (and most xy stuff breaks sooner or later) just my 2 cents (since I just posted stuff that I want to sell) -jeff >I've got a question for some of you who have been on vectorlist for a >while. Every once in a while a for sale post like this comes through. I >understand that the author is letting us know about a possible deal before >the rest of the collecting community. Is this ok to do? I have put some >vector stuff up in rgvac without posting it here first and I just wanted to >get a general feeling if you guys would rather I mentioned it here first? >Any input is appreciated. Thanks. > >Omar > >---------- jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 23:39:19 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:39:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 00:42:13 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: Electrohome B/W monitor transistors Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Circuit Specialists www.cir.com -jeff >Anybody know of a good source for the deflection transistors on the B/W >Electrohome Monitors? I'm looking for the MPS-U05 and the MPS-U57's in >this case (not the 3716's et. al.) > >On a similar note, will this help my pincussioning on the screen, there >aren't too many cap.s to replace if I get the cap. kit, and I can't see 'em >doing too much... (I mean there are what... 4 - 2.2microF cap.s?) > > >Ace jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 23:39:20 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:39:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 00:42:19 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: Battlezone Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Describe the gameplay in your vector version of Return of the Jedi (if it was any different), maybe it will give us a heads up on development. -jeff ps. maybe it was meant to be and the vector gods have given you inspiration. >Given that it's a fact of life of collecting that we'll be buying and >selling video games and related items, I like "being in the loop" when >it comes to vector game related paraphenalia. I appreciate the random >FS post since it's always on topic to vector games, and it arrives >directly to my mailbox without having to go anywhere. :-) > >Anyway, that's obviously just my opinion! > >Last night, I had a dream that there was a vector version of Return of >the Jedi. It was a good dream. I'd swear, it was a real game. It's a >shame they went the way of the raster when this game came out. Perhaps, >someday, one of us will be motivated enough to write some code for the >Star Wars platform and make a better version... Hmm.. my todo list is >starting to shrink. (Can't let that happen now .. ) > >Clay, you're working on disassembling the Star Wars code, right? Did >you say you have a processor pod for the 6809 and your logic analyzer? >Sure sure, ESB shields first, then we need to get to the good stuff! > >Joel- jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 6 23:40:06 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:40:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 00:43:06 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Spies schematics Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Hey Al, Some of the .tif files up on spies are bad. Can you reload them. (I know the keltron2 is bad as well as about 1/2 of the cinematronics CPU tiffs along with some others) thanks -jeff jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 00:06:55 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 00:06:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 00:06:45 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Spies schematics Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) can your TIFF viewer deal with ccitt level 4 decompression? I just read Keltron Monitor #2 ok from the page From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 05:38:50 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 05:38:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <352A1E7F.17A5@fairchildsemi.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:39:27 -0400 From: Dave Morrill Organization: Fairchild Semiconductor, Portland, ME X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Battlezone References: <3.0.32.19980406192120.007ce640@mail.tyler.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Dave Morrill Phil, I've been looking for a HV supply for my Asteroids Deluxe. Do you still have the supply and if so, Do you hear the HV crackle when you turn it on? Thanks, Dave. Phil Yellott wrote: > > Along the same lines as Jeff, I acquired two Battlezones, and am swapping > the best parts to make a fairly decent game. The other has no step, some > damaged sides (at the edges of the white, not in the art, should be > fixable), a rusty panel, missing the right black handle with button (new > sides from Wico are about 6.00 each), both bellows torn :(, no back door, a > non-working boardset, and a monitor that wont glow at the neck. > > I hope no one would be sad if I parted it out..... Though if someone was > near Dallas I would love for this to go to someone..... I dont think I can > just casually toss a Battlezone in the dump :( > > Phil > > P.S. Anyone want some Bzone parts, BTW? > - > Phil Yellott (pyellott@longview.net) > - From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 07:01:06 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 07:00:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199804071359.JAA01796@vela.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: I,Robot Emulator (off topic) To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:59:47 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Al Kossow" at Apr 6, 98 03:04:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Paul Kahler Hi, Sorry for the off topic, I'll be brief. John Manfreda just gave permission to distribute his I,Robot emulator. It's no vector game, but it's definitely an Atari Classic. Ummm, his effort was also somewhat inspired by me showing him an early version of our cinematronics emulator. (that kinda ties it to vectors :) John doesn't have web space, so I've put it up for him at: http://www.oakland.edu/~phkahler I've also got pics of I,Robot in my collection -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 08:33:31 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:33:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:32:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" OK -- given the recent FS thread: Someone is now selling a dedicated MH in RGVAC for $1,650. For a B+ machine. And he won't ship. Previously I had only seen one going for $1,500. I know some people on this list own one. Recent windfalls notwithstanding, is this a reasonable price ? Yeah, only 500 were made, but it seems like a lot. Anything is worth what someone will pay for it, and all that. I know. Opinions still appreicated. -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 08:37:35 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:37:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980407103857.0093e210@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:38:58 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: Battlezone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) At 08:39 AM 4/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >Phil, > I've been looking for a HV supply for my Asteroids Deluxe. Do you >still have the supply and if so, Do you hear the HV crackle when you >turn it on? > >Thanks, > Dave. > Dave- I have one. I can test it if you want, and will sell it to you for some beer money :) Mit From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 08:49:22 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:49:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:47:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu cc: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Tue, 7 Apr 1998 jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote: > I would say that a "going price" for either of the two games would > be somewhere from $800 - $1000. I paid $1200 for my Quantum, but I think > I overpaid. > I hope this helps you out some... That is does -- thanks ! ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 08:52:11 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:52:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980407105337.009389e0@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:53:39 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: Battlezone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) > >Dave- > >I have one. I can test it if you want, and will sell it to you for >some beer money :) > >Mit > Damn reply button gets me again!!!!!! From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 08:57:01 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:56:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Battlezone Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:55:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Um, is this a dumb question: Why not change the battery with the power > ON? That is unless the battery is part ofthe device as in Dallas > Semiconductors 10 year ram. If you can replace the battery, use a pair > of jumper wires to jumper a second battery into the circuit, then > unsolder the first (use a propane soldering iron to avoid shorting to > ground) and replace it with a third battery. The idea here is even if > you have a power failure whilst replacing the battery the jumpered > second battery will cover for you... > That should work nicely, except it seems that a lot of these have already bit the farm. I'm getting two dead ones to look at. Anyone have a working Buster Bros. they want to sell for ~$40 or so? (I'm reluctant to take a loaner since I feel there's a pretty decent chance I'll hose at least one in the process... ;-) It's just the idea that a boardset is "best if used by xxx" that bothers me anyway. -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 09:01:28 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:01:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Kurt Mahan Message-Id: <199804071600.KAA09697@xmission.xmission.com> Subject: Re: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:00:15 -0600 (MDT) Cc: chris@westnet.com In-Reply-To: from "Christopher X. Candreva" at Apr 7, 98 11:32:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kurt Mahan > Someone is now selling a dedicated MH in RGVAC for $1,650. For a B+ machine. > And he won't ship. Previously I had only seen one going for $1,500. Wow! > I know some people on this list own one. Recent windfalls notwithstanding, > is this a reasonable price ? Yeah, only 500 were made, but it seems like a > lot. I've got one in A/A- condition (slight scratching on the base). I paid $75 for it as I recall. (And the guy gave me all the pieces he could find to the monitor.. :) Its currently in line to get an LV2000 (along with the tempest, space duel, and u/r star wars..) Dedicated MH is a pain to move, btw.. And no, mine isn't for sale. :) Kurt From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 09:07:48 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:07:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <352A4F15.3A6F609E@pobox.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:06:45 -0400 From: Corey Stup X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Vector Games for Sale/Trade Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Corey Stup I'm looking to sell or trade off some of my vector machines that don't get much time anymore. Pictures may be available for anyone interested. Heres the list: Major Havoc. Tempest upright conversion. Cosmetics: No side art (just white). Marquis is good, no major cracks. Control panel is fair - "seam/edge" is worn away. Electronics: Game board comes up, worked the last time I played the machine (6-9 months ago). Power supply is good. WG monitor is all there, but needs a little work. The driver transistor harnesses are missing (easy to make new ones.) [Someone is already interested in this - they have right of first refusal] Asteroids Deluxe: (upright) Cosmetics: Excellent side art, few scratches, one gouge. Marquis perfect. Control panel very good, no burns. Everything there. Electronics: Game works great. Monitor, board, power supply all working. Asteroids: (upright) Cosmetics: Excellent side art, very few scratches. Marquis perfect. Control panel EXCELLENT (nicest one I've seen). Electronics: Nice bright monitor - _very_ slight burn. Working all the way. Battlezone: (upright) Cosmetics: Good side art. Marquis perfect. Control panel very good. Step fair. One of the bellows is bad. Includes a spare set of controls. Electronics: Monitor has a little "jitter" in the picture - I'm sure a cap kit would take care of this. Otherwise, it works good. Omega Race: (mini) Cosmetics: Few scratches, cabinet in overall good shape. Marquis is cracked on one edge. Control panel good. Electronics: Board works great. Monitor nice and bright. Overall nice game. For more information about any one of these items, please send mail. Games are located in Louisville, KY, and shipping is possible (Forward Air, or Doddle or equivilent) at buyers expense. I'm interested in trading for pins. Email with what you have available. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 09:08:04 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:08:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:06:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: Kurt Mahan cc: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? In-Reply-To: <199804071600.KAA09697@xmission.xmission.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Kurt Mahan wrote: > I've got one in A/A- condition (slight scratching on the base). I paid > $75 for it as I recall. (And the guy gave me all the pieces he could find > > Dedicated MH is a pain to move, btw.. Really ? Why ? It looked like it might be lighter and easier. Is the ballance off ? > And no, mine isn't for sale. :) But think about the profit you could make, like 2,200% ! :-) Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 09:16:47 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:16:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Kurt Mahan Message-Id: <199804071615.KAA14857@xmission.xmission.com> Subject: Re: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? To: chris@westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:15:30 -0600 (MDT) Cc: kmahan@xmission.com, vectorlist@spies.com In-Reply-To: from "Christopher X. Candreva" at Apr 7, 98 12:06:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kurt Mahan > > Dedicated MH is a pain to move, btw.. > > Really ? Why ? It looked like it might be lighter and easier. Is the > ballance off ? Its a fairly heavy game and the multi-box structure is a pain. I typically move games on their back in my jeep (wrangler). The multibox structure meant that I had to improvise to get it to stay in the jeep (since the end had to hang out..) In the end I lifted the end of the game up, closed the tailgate, and let it down on the spare tire. And yes -- on all games that I move I use a LOT of straps to make sure it doesn't leave prematurly.. :) And I use cardboard padding to make sure I don't scratch it up. (the game, the jeep fends for itself..) > > And no, mine isn't for sale. :) > But think about the profit you could make, like 2,200% ! > :-) The thought did cross my mind. I would trade the entire collection for the Hummer.. :) (and that's TWO tempests, TWO space duels, SW, MH, plus all the vector boards I can find.. :) (accepting the offer on your part would of course verify your state of mental health - or lack there of).. Kurt From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 09:19:04 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:18:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:18:54 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) "Really ? Why ? It looked like it might be lighter and easier. Is the ballance off ?" There is no good place to hold onto it, and it doesn't sit on a hand truck well. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 10:31:46 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:31:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980407102948.006bac28@pop.cari.net> X-Sender: gaymond@pop.cari.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:29:48 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Gaymond Lee Subject: Re: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Gaymond Lee At 11:32 AM 4/7/98 -0400, you wrote: > >OK -- given the recent FS thread: > >Someone is now selling a dedicated MH in RGVAC for $1,650. For a B+ machine. >And he won't ship. Previously I had only seen one going for $1,500. > >I know some people on this list own one. Recent windfalls notwithstanding, >is this a reasonable price ? Yeah, only 500 were made, but it seems like a >lot. FWIW I have personally owned and sold 3 dedicated Major Havocs (the last one being over a year ago) @ $1400, 1500, and 1500. They all sold within a week of my initial posting with one out of state collector flying in his personal assistant to pick up. 2 went out of state and one went to Brian's friend. Brian paid a similar price for the game he is posting for sale I am currently selling one for a local collector (because he has 2 of them) in San Diego and he is asking $1500 or best higher offer. Trades are preferred but he is only looking for nice rare games (Space War cocktail, Boxing Bugs, Aztarac, etc) or common games that look new out of the box. Gaymond Lee From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 10:50:42 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:50:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: I,Robot Emulator (off topic) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:49:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Sorry for the off topic, I'll be brief. John Manfreda just gave > permission to distribute his I,Robot emulator. > Well, it *has* vectors in it... It's kinda vector-list material. I tried it (pretty excited to use the metafile-dump and make a nice high-rez Windoze background!), but found that it doesn't like the I,Robot ROMs at the ROM Archive. Hmmmm. I'm not keen on pulling my machine out to read ROM 208 again, so I sent John a message warning him of the impending rash of e-mails that "it doesn't work!". ;-) Maybe he hardwired the ROM checksums in the code... -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 10:53:14 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:53:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:51:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > I am currently selling one for a local collector (because he has 2 of > them) > in San Diego and he is asking ___$1500 or best higher offer___. Trades > are > preferred but he is only looking for nice rare games ____Space War > cocktail____ > Aaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! Don't tell me stuff like this, please. ;-) -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 10:56:33 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:56:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:56:28 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: I,Robot Emulator (off topic) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) ..getting increasingly off-topic did you try http://www.davesclassics.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 11:11:45 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:11:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:12:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day Clay (and folks), Yes, Gaymond could have just emailed, you (Space Wars cocktail), me (pristine Boxing Bugs) and David Fish (Aztarac) instead of the whole vectorlist. That way the temptation would have been much more personal. Did anyone else notice the omission of Zector...who found that Zector cabinet recently? Gee, if ded MH's are in such demand, I probably should start chasing down my old leads! And to think that I once considered getting a beat up ded MH just to strip the roller out of it?! Steven S Ozdemir sso@plpt.com (my company renamed itself in Feb) sso@dsc.com (good for a few more months) ozdemir@xenon.stanford.edu (permanent...weekly) ps - With that last comment, I'll probably be drummed out of the vectorlist, eh? > ---------- > From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:ClayC@diamondmm.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 10:51 AM > To: 'vectorlist@spies.com' > Cc: Clay Cowgill > Subject: RE: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? > > > I am currently selling one for a local collector (because he has 2 > of > > them) > > in San Diego and he is asking ___$1500 or best higher offer___. > Trades > > are > > preferred but he is only looking for nice rare games ____Space War > > cocktail____ > > > Aaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! Don't tell me stuff like this, please. ;-) > > -Clay > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 11:16:52 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:16:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: I,Robot Emulator (off topic) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:15:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > ..getting increasingly off-topic > > did you try http://www.davesclassics.com/ > Nope, but that archive does seem to work. ;-) -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 11:22:36 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:22:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:21:14 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Ozdemir, Steve wrote: > G'day Clay (and folks), > > Yes, Gaymond could have just emailed, you (Space Wars cocktail), me > (pristine Boxing Bugs) and David Fish (Aztarac) instead of the whole > vectorlist. That way the temptation would have been much more personal. > Did anyone else notice the omission of Zector...who found that Zector > cabinet recently? Lee Bender found the Zektor, but sold it to Keith at Videotopia, where it will probably rot, because I have heard (albeit second-hand) that Videotopia doesn't put Sega XY stuff on display because it is too unreliable.... Joe From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 11:33:51 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:33:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:32:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9804071332.ZM16981@calcite> In-Reply-To: "RE: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ?" (Apr 7, 1:21pm) References: X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mark Jenison On Apr 7, 1:21pm, wrote: > Subject: RE: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? > > On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Ozdemir, Steve wrote: > > > G'day Clay (and folks), > > > > Yes, Gaymond could have just emailed, you (Space Wars cocktail), me > > (pristine Boxing Bugs) and David Fish (Aztarac) instead of the whole > > vectorlist. That way the temptation would have been much more personal. > > Did anyone else notice the omission of Zector...who found that Zector > > cabinet recently? > > Lee Bender found the Zektor, but sold it to Keith at Videotopia, > where it will probably rot, because I have heard (albeit second-hand) that > Videotopia doesn't put Sega XY stuff on display because it is too > unreliable.... What?!?! Sega XY stuff unreliable??? Unheard of! Operaters where just being insane and running them for more than 4 hours. That's crazy! ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game (but don't play it for more than half an hour - the monitor might go out again) From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 11:37:58 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:37:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <352A7296.6922@an.hp.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:38:14 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Battlezone References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Joel Rosenzweig Jeff Hendrix wrote: > > Describe the gameplay in your vector version of Return of the Jedi (if it > was any different), maybe it will give us a heads up on development. > > -jeff > > ps. maybe it was meant to be and the vector gods have given you inspiration. In my version of Return of the Jedi, all the action was first person, as in Star Wars and ESB. I guess I don't go for all that 3rd person stuff in Jedi. I remember seeing the Millenium Falcon in front of me, then the game zoomed in to where I sat in the cockpit. Then I was surrounded by all the cockpit controls, and we blasted off into hyperspace. Then, a space battle scene followed, where I got to fly the ship around, instead of flying along a pre-set course. After blasting my way through a bunch of TIE's, I viewed the entire sequence of getting closer to the Death Star, all the way until I flew into it. (Rather than in Star Wars, where you get close, and then all of a sudden, you're on the surface, or in the trench.) The view inside the Death Star was cool, and a lot like the trench scene in Star Wars, except the trench took twists and turns, both up and down, and left and right, so you had to follow the right path, or smack into a dead end. The visuals of the Death Star warping around me as I turned while flying through the tunnels was cool. That's about all I remember from the dream itself. However, in the same manner, it would be neat to have a first person speeder scene. I could do without the scene with Chewie and the walker, though I could imagine something cool, first person for that, too. Anyway, I guess the most interesting part was seeing the crisp, glowing blue, red, yellow and purple vectors in the Millenium Falcon tunnel flying scene. Well, if one of us figures out the code in Star Wars/ESB, I'd definately be interested in coding a new version of the game like the one in my dream. I'm thinking that if we could re-use certain subroutines and data, that would make for an easier time programming. However, perhaps Clay's vector project is a more realistic vehicle for doing a game such as this one? There is alure for me to program it on the real hardware, but it would definately be an easier task to write it for a platform with full documentation, like Clay's invention. Anyone interested in adding some cool ideas to a vector based RotJ? I never said I was good at content, I just know what I like. :-) I figure I'll let this idea brew for a while before I think about doing anything serious.. Joel- From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 13:47:00 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:46:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:45:33 +0100 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: RE: Battlezone Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Clay, Is there any way to read in the data from the ram chip. Then you would at least have an archive of the data and you could always whip up a circuit to reprogram a new device (you might even be able to use an eprom burner). Or maybe even come up with a way to store the important stuff on a ROM chip. -jeff BTW: what kind of game is Buster Bros? >> Um, is this a dumb question: Why not change the battery with the power >> ON? That is unless the battery is part ofthe device as in Dallas >> Semiconductors 10 year ram. If you can replace the battery, use a pair >> of jumper wires to jumper a second battery into the circuit, then >> unsolder the first (use a propane soldering iron to avoid shorting to >> ground) and replace it with a third battery. The idea here is even if >> you have a power failure whilst replacing the battery the jumpered >> second battery will cover for you... >> >That should work nicely, except it seems that a lot of these have >already bit the farm. I'm getting two dead ones to look at. Anyone >have a working Buster Bros. they want to sell for ~$40 or so? (I'm >reluctant to take a loaner since I feel there's a pretty decent chance >I'll hose at least one in the process... ;-) > >It's just the idea that a boardset is "best if used by xxx" that bothers >me anyway. > >-Clay jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 13:47:00 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:46:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:45:30 +0100 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: Spies schematics Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) I'm using the Imaging program in windows 95. I'm then changing its compression to CCITT level 3 so I can open it in photoshop, XPress, etc. on my mac. I can read most of the files, but when I try to read in some of them, like KeltronMon2, it displays the message "An internal error has occured". I've also redownloaded it about 1/2 a dozen times. (It only take a couple of seconds on our T1) -jeff >can your TIFF viewer deal with ccitt level 4 decompression? >I just read Keltron Monitor #2 ok from the page jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 13:47:01 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:46:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:45:41 +0100 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Wells HV units Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Does anybody have any wells gardner HV units for sale? (for color xy monitors, not raster) I have 2 monitors that are completely missing the HV cage. -jeff jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 13:47:06 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:46:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:45:37 +0100 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) I think $1,650 is a little high priced for a dedicated MH. I paid about $400 for the parts to rebuild a Quantum, $400 for an I-Robot and $400 for a Tempest converted to a Major Havoc (I know, it's not the rare dedicated one, but it's complete and it works) The most I have ever paid for a game was $500 for a mint star wars cockpit. The deals are out there, but sometimes you have to do a lot of footwork (or phonework). -jeff >OK -- given the recent FS thread: > >Someone is now selling a dedicated MH in RGVAC for $1,650. For a B+ machine. >And he won't ship. Previously I had only seen one going for $1,500. > >I know some people on this list own one. Recent windfalls notwithstanding, >is this a reasonable price ? Yeah, only 500 were made, but it seems like a >lot. > >Anything is worth what someone will pay for it, and all that. I know. >Opinions still appreicated. > >-Chris > >========================================================== >Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 >WestNet Internet Services of Westchester >http://www.westnet.com/ jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 14:08:47 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:08:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199804072107.RAA16710@vela.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Spies schematics To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:07:45 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hendrix" at Apr 7, 98 02:45:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Paul Kahler > I'm using the Imaging program in windows 95. I'm then changing its That would be the problem. -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 15:37:58 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:37:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199804072236.SAA17165@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> From: "The Retrodaddy" To: Subject: Re: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:35:25 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "The Retrodaddy" I have access to a deidcated unit, but it would be for sale directly from the owner. Last I heard, he wanted $1000 for it. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 15:42:05 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:42:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Battlezone Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:40:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Is there any way to read in the data from the ram chip. Then you > would at least have an archive of the data and you could always whip > up a > circuit to reprogram a new device (you might even be able to use an > eprom > burner). Or maybe even come up with a way to store the important stuff > on a > ROM chip. > I think that would be too easy. ;-) I don't have my boardsets yet so I can't say for sure, but it sounds like the RAM is on the CPU. I'm hoping that it's just data and not executable space... Anybody that wants to try to crack this thing, feel free to join in, though not on Vectorlist. (It's Doug Jeffrys' and I right now...) Hey Al-- any interest in a game-hacker mailing list? There's lots to be done (Super Missile Attack, The Glob, Buster Bros. etc.) > BTW: what kind of game is Buster Bros? > It's a raster game-- maybe 1990 or so. Two players simultaneous if you like. You have a little "dude" that can shoot these giant bubbles. The bubbles break into two smaller pieces ('ala Asteroids) each time they're shot. It's tough to describe. Kinda half puzzle-game, half arcade game. Good fun, IMHO. -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 15:49:18 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:49:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:49:12 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: Battlezone Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Super Missile Attack is done. It will appear in MAME .31 Try contacting the people doing CPS1 emulators, to see if they will help. Could we put this thread to rest now? I'm also a bit concerned about the ammount of traffic the for sale post has generated. The way it has worked in the past was that someone would give 'dibs' to people on the list by offering it first here (sometimes a little cheaper) then offer it on the net in a day or so after that. There is a lot of emotion involved in buying and selling this stuff, and I think discussions of asking price may be better handled 'off line' in direct email. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 17:47:20 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:46:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199804080045.RAA27331@kingdom.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 18:46:22 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Electrohome B/W monitor transistors In-Reply-To: References: <7717AE2C58B.AAA17A9@aberdeen.frb.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 03:23 PM 4/6/98 -0500, Joe wrote: > >On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, David D Humphrey wrote: > >> Anybody know of a good source for the deflection transistors on the B/W >> Electrohome Monitors? I'm looking for the MPS-U05 and the MPS-U57's in >> this case (not the 3716's et. al.) >> > > Your best bet is to get the NTE replacements. I tried >(unsuccessfully) to track down the MPS-U07s. Circuit Specialists lists >them in their catalog, but when I ordered some, they told me that they >were discontinued and they couldn't get any more. > > Of course, if anyone knows some other source..... > >Joe These are the same transistors that the WG Color deflection board uses. Has anyone tried using TIP transistors? I know the pin outs are not identical, the MPSs are EBC, and the TIPs are BEC (or CEB). But if you just bent and twisted the leads...? One can get TIPs very easily and they are easy to find in high enought ratings, and they should be fast enough. Any thoughts...? I might just "try" it and see what happens... -Anders. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 17:55:49 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 17:55:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199804080054.RAA27854@kingdom.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 18:55:11 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: RE: Battlezone In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 05:24 PM 4/6/98 -0700, Clay wrote: >I kinda view vectorlist as a more focused and friendly version of RGVAC, >which has too great of S/N ratio for me anymore. Plus, I find I save a >lot of money by not reading it and RGVAM too often... > >I too like occasional for-sales here for rare and/or "new" stuff (like >Jeff/Anders LV2000, Chris' Hummer :-). As long as the ratio stays >heavily in favor of discussions (on topic or off *laugh*) I think it's a >Good Thing. > >> There are also more "hardcore" vector collectors and old-timers here, >> so >> you're targeting your ad better (yuk, I don't like the sound of that). >> >Hmmmm... Sounds like Paul has a marketing course or two in his >background... ;-) His next Cinemenu will probably start off by >displaying "SAVE up to 80%!!!!!!" or something... J/K... *grin* > >-Clay Agreed! I don't think I would have mass produced the LV2000 if it weren't for this list. Where else is there as concentrated a group of people interrested in old vector arcade games? Certainly not the damn newsgroups!?!?! I actually have not given this any though until it was brought up, since the FS trafic on this list has been fairly low (good, good). Maybe Al could grep for "sale", etc and see how many we've accumulated. So, I think it's cool as long as the FS posts are more along the lines of a "friendly offer". I would hate to see every other post being a FS post though! -Anders. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 21:02:58 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:02:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:03:15 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: Wells HV units Cc: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 14:45 4/7/98, Jeff Hendrix wrote: >Does anybody have any wells gardner HV units for sale? >(for color xy monitors, not raster) >I have 2 monitors that are completely missing the HV cage. I have 2 (more actually) and spare deflection boards, too. I'd *really* rather not put a price on them unless you have nothing you can trade. What do you have (non-vector is OK)? From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 22:58:42 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:58:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 00:01:35 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Flyers Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Does anybody have any flyers for atari xy games for sale? (I own all 13 atari xy games, but am having a dog of a time trying to find all the flyers) -jeff jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 23:01:11 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:00:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 02:00:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Anderson X-Sender: mayday19@u1.farm.idt.net To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jeff Anderson > Lee Bender found the Zektor, but sold it to Keith at Videotopia, > where it will probably rot, because I have heard (albeit second-hand) that > Videotopia doesn't put Sega XY stuff on display because it is too > unreliable.... Gee thanks, we try to do something good for this hobby and look what we get. :) Nuthin' is gonna rot.. but Myles didn't mis-inform you Joe.. Lee Bender wanted to give us the oppurtunity to buy if first. We got it, and I picked it up, and gave it a good inspection before power up. I was told it was not operational, and that was solved in about 30 seconds with a new header pin. I put it out the next day and it worked a total of 6 hours before conking out. The monitor developed a prob, all the images are squeezed into thin lines, although each individual object is in its proper place and the screen still has full defletion. I figured it is just some caps. I have had my hand full with other stuff at the moment to bother fixing it (I have unwillingly become very good at fixing V-1000s :) I also put out a Tac/Scan the same day, and it took a total of 8 hours to break. if that is any indication of unreliability, I dont know what is. it is easy to see why these games are so rare. That Zektor has under 900 clicks on the meter, and it broke! no wonder the op got fed up with it and stuffed in the warehouse.. I would LOVE to run the SEGA games, but they are just hard to keep running if they get run 10 hours a day. I tried running the Tac/Scan when we were at the Franklin intitute in Philly, and it broke *4* times in 3 days so I said the hell with that.. It went through a few RAM chips in the XY boards, some monitor problems, burned PS connectors, and a chip on the spinner interface board. hopefully I will work out all the bugs in them, so they can be put in the exhibit. I want to have them ready for the next showing (see the site). Everybody nees to play Zektor :> It is a fun game, but the knob sucks, It makes it harder to play. I wanna put a Tac/Scan knob on it, but I figure I should probably leave it original. Those black marks on the side all of you saw in those pics are not original, I guess the op thought it needed something on the sides.. Just for the record, there are 2 Zektors around. I cant say who it is, but I should add that he found his Zektor about a month before Lee found his.. Jeff http://www.videotopia.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 23:06:04 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:06:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:05:58 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) "It is a fun game, but the knob sucks, It makes it harder to play." could you elaborate on this a bit. does zektor have a different spinner than star trek or tac/scan? From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 7 23:19:06 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:18:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 02:18:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Anderson X-Sender: mayday19@u1.farm.idt.net To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jeff Anderson On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Al Kossow wrote: > "It is a fun game, but the knob sucks, > It makes it harder to play." > > could you elaborate on this a bit. does zektor have a different > spinner than star trek or tac/scan? the hardware is the same, but the knob is a generic black bakelite knob with the finger indentations. I thought it wasn't original after playing Tac/Scan and ST, but it is the original knob, the flyer shows it. While playing, it comes in handy to spin quickly sometimes, but your fingers fit into the indentations, which kinda messes things up. The game plays MUCH better IMHO with the newer metal knob. Jeff From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 8 08:28:52 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:28:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: JBPeters Message-ID: <7e35e80c.352b91bb@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:03:22 EDT To: vectorlist@spies.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Flyers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: JBPeters In a message dated 98-04-08 02:01:53 EDT, you write: << To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Does anybody have any flyers for atari xy games for sale? (I own all 13 atari xy games, but am having a dog of a time trying to find all the flyers) -jeff jeffh@diac.com >> Hi, I've got some....which ones specifically are you looking for? jeff p From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 8 09:11:16 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:11:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199804081549.KAA25228@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: <7e35e80c.352b91bb@aol.com> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Wed, 8 Apr 98 10:51:58 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Flyers References: <7e35e80c.352b91bb@aol.com> Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Ray Ghanbari You wrote: > I've got some....which ones specifically are you looking for? Don't know about Jeff, but I'd love a Tempest and Asteroids flyer... Ray From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 8 09:24:39 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:24:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980408092556.00b75880@sfpo.macromedia.com> X-Sender: wsharp@sfpo.macromedia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 09:25:56 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com, vectorlist@spies.com From: Werner Sharp Subject: Re: Flyers Cc: Ray Ghanbari Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Werner Sharp At 10:51 AM 4/8/98 -0500, Ray Ghanbari wrote: >You wrote: >> I've got some....which ones specifically are you looking for? > >Don't know about Jeff, but I'd love a Tempest and Asteroids flyer... > >Ray > Don't know about Jeff or Ray, but I'd LOVE a Black Widow flyer. Even a color photocopy would be fantastic. Does anyone even have one of these? Werner Sharp From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 8 10:00:36 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:00:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <352B0409.5A33@links.magenta.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 22:58:49 -0600 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Flyers References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Jeff Hendrix wrote: > > Does anybody have any flyers for atari xy games for sale? > (I own all 13 atari xy games, but am having a dog of a time trying to find > all the flyers) > Bill Kurtz has one of the larger collections and he is selling them off. His email is topshanana@aol.com (Im not to sure about the spelling). If you do a dejanews search for Bill Kurtz in the RGP or RGVAC newsgroups you will find it as well. jess PS- Don't mention my name or his will most likely not do business with you. Also, don't mention the Pin Expo. :-0 -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 8 10:06:54 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:06:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <352B059E.3482@links.magenta.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 23:05:34 -0600 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Flyers References: <3.0.32.19980408092556.00b75880@sfpo.macromedia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Werner Sharp wrote: > Don't know about Jeff or Ray, but I'd LOVE a Black Widow flyer. Even a > color photocopy would be fantastic. Does anyone even have one of these? > HA! That would be great. Bill Kurtz is the only person that I know has one, He won't sell it though, he has been offered pretty good money for it too. We had a deal worked out where he was going to send me a color copy for the vector page but it fell through when I asked if he was going to be at the pin expo. DOH! Bad move. jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 8 10:17:38 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:17:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:17:29 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Flyers Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) www.gamearchive.com has flyers for all the Atari vector games. I have access to a color printer. Anyone interested in copies send me (private, not mailing list) mail. They are 100dpi scans so don't expect photo-resolution copies. Bill Kurtz also has some Atari flyers for sale on his web page. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 8 12:29:56 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:29:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980408122753.008a4ec8@frobozz.qualcomm.com> X-Sender: sswazey@frobozz.qualcomm.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 12:27:53 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Scott Swazey Subject: MPSU07 and MPSU57 Alternates (WAS Electrohome B/W monitor transistors) In-Reply-To: <199804080045.RAA27331@kingdom.adaptec.com> References: <7717AE2C58B.AAA17A9@aberdeen.frb.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Scott Swazey At 06:46 PM 4/7/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 03:23 PM 4/6/98 -0500, Joe wrote: >> >>On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, David D Humphrey wrote: >> >>> Anybody know of a good source for the deflection transistors on the B/W >>> Electrohome Monitors? I'm looking for the MPS-U05 and the MPS-U57's in >>> this case (not the 3716's et. al.) >>> >> >> Your best bet is to get the NTE replacements. I tried >>(unsuccessfully) to track down the MPS-U07s. Circuit Specialists lists >>them in their catalog, but when I ordered some, they told me that they >>were discontinued and they couldn't get any more. >> >> Of course, if anyone knows some other source..... >> >>Joe > >These are the same transistors that the WG Color deflection board uses. Has >anyone tried using TIP transistors? I know the pin outs are not identical, >the MPSs are EBC, and the TIPs are BEC (or CEB). But if you just bent and >twisted the leads...? >One can get TIPs very easily and they are easy to find in high enought >ratings, and they should be fast enough. >Any thoughts...? I might just "try" it and see what happens... > >-Anders. Most TIP transistors aren't going to work well. fT is typically 1-3 MHz and the output capacitance (Cob) is huge (200+ pF). Try MJE182 and MJE172 as replacements for MPSU07 and MPSU57. They cost about 0.50 ea. from Mouser. The pinout is different, but they'er a lot cheaper than the NTE stuff. Also, If you can find them... 2SC3298B and 2SA1306B are ideal replacements for the '07 and '57. BTW I have be able to find MPSU10s locally. They're an acceptable, lower current, replacement for the MPSU07. (i.e. in the Ampliphone deflection board the '07 is used as a 70ma current mirror, which is much less than the 500ma max Ic current). Gateway electronics in San Diego has lots of them for $.50 -Scott Scott Swazey QUALCOMM Incorporated Work: (619) 657-2419 mailto:sswazey@qualcomm.com V-209H Pager:(619) 683-5210 From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 8 19:00:28 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:59:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 21:58:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Anderson X-Sender: mayday19@u2.farm.idt.net To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: Dedicated MH -- what's reasonable price ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jeff Anderson On Wed, 8 Apr 1998 jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote: > > On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Jeff Anderson wrote: > > > Just for the record, there are 2 Zektors around. I cant say who it is, but > > I should add that he found his Zektor about a month before Lee found his.. > > > > This is still speculation -- I have yet to see this guy produce > the Zektor. If the guy's name is Jim, then we're talking about the same > person. If not, then, I guess there are potentially 3 Zektors out > tehre... I guess there are 3 Zektors then :> Jeff From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 8 20:28:51 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 20:27:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01BD633D.6CD7AA70.gemaser@radiks.net> From: Gregory Maser To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Re:flyers Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:26:40 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Gregory Maser I printed the Tempest Flyer off of www.gamearchive.com on HP Premium Photo Paper to give it that glossy finish and that worked pretty nice(Still not picture perfect, but, oh well). GregM. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 8 22:13:14 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:12:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <352BAFA0.87B@links.magenta.com> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 11:10:56 -0600 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: flyers References: <01BD633D.6CD7AA70.gemaser@radiks.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Gregory Maser wrote: > > I printed the Tempest Flyer off of www.gamearchive.com on HP Premium Photo > Paper to give it that glossy finish and that worked pretty nice(Still not > picture perfect, but, oh well). > > GregM. Im glad they come out looking somewhat good. :-) jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 9 22:33:53 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:32:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:32:43 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: WTT: my B&W XY defl. PCBs for your HV units! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Well I had an AMAZING run of repair work this weekend. I went over about a dozen deflection boards for Atari (analog) black and white vector monitors and when I tested them, THEY ALL WORKED!!! This was my best repair session EVER. Anyways, I now have several versions of each style deflection board available for trade in exchange for HV units. I'll take any style HV unit, working, untested or not-working (but can't be a bad HV "flyback" transformer). I have the most of the Wells-Gardner version. Will also sell these or trade for other interesting stuff. Also, I have learned a LOT about these boards and will be typing in what I can remember and took notes on. Even easier to work on than the color ones! Found out some interesting stuff... From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 9 22:53:15 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:51:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <352DA651.63EC@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 21:55:45 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WTT: my B&W XY defl. PCBs for your HV units! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Gregg Woodcock wrote: > > Well I had an AMAZING run of repair work this weekend. I went over about a > dozen deflection boards for Atari (analog) black and white vector monitors > and when I tested them, THEY ALL WORKED!!! This was my best repair session > EVER. Anyways, I now have several versions of each style deflection board > available for trade in exchange for HV units. I'll take any style HV unit, > working, untested or not-working (but can't be a bad HV "flyback" > transformer). I have the most of the Wells-Gardner version. Will also > sell these or trade for other interesting stuff. > > Also, I have learned a LOT about these boards and will be typing in what I > can remember and took notes on. Even easier to work on than the color > ones! Found out some interesting stuff... Yes, these are easy to fix. Generally if you resolder ALL the pins you will take care of most problems...what we do is make sure that the pins stick throught the circuit boards at least 1/16inch. This ensures a good mound of solder to support the pin and reduce the likelihood of cracks in the solder connections. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 10 14:52:12 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:50:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:49:21 +0100 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Star Wars Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) I know this might be an impossible request, but does anybody have the symbol table for star wars code. ps. I would even promise not to give it out if the donator requested. -jeff jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 10 15:23:54 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:22:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <352DF0E2.3B49@links.magenta.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:13:54 -0600 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Star Wars References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Jeff Hendrix wrote: > > I know this might be an impossible request, but does anybody have the > symbol table for star wars code. > > ps. I would even promise not to give it out if the donator requested. Heh! That is a wet dream I think! Having something like that would make it soooooo easy to modify the hell out of that game. Atari guards source code agressivly though. :-( jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 10 15:49:01 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:47:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:46:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Star Wars In-Reply-To: <352DF0E2.3B49@links.magenta.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Jess Askey wrote: > Heh! That is a wet dream I think! Having something like that would make > it soooooo easy to modify the hell out of that game. Atari guards > source code agressivly though. :-( After all this time ? I doubt they are guarding it. I doubt they even know where it is ! -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 10 15:50:43 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:49:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:47:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Did Tempest Spinner have a foam ring ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" Simple question, should be easy to settle. My Tempest spinner has a foam ring around it . Makes it a bit easier to hold and get a grip on. Question is, is this original, or something someone added ? It force-fits snuggly over the platic knob. It's also about worn out. Still better than not having it there though -- it makes game play a bit easier. -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 10 16:00:35 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:58:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <352DFADB.4B78@links.magenta.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:56:28 -0600 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Star Wars References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Christopher X. Candreva wrote: > > On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Jess Askey wrote: > > > Heh! That is a wet dream I think! Having something like that would make > > it soooooo easy to modify the hell out of that game. Atari guards > > source code agressivly though. :-( > > After all this time ? I doubt they are guarding it. I doubt they even know > where it is ! Actually, they DO know where it is. All the source is archived on magnetic tape I believe. The problem is reading the data at this point. jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 10 17:00:41 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:58:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:58:49 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Star Wars Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) reading the data isn't a problem, I still have a 9 track tape drive that can read 800/1600/6250 bpi tapes.. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 10 18:24:55 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:24:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <352EB912.2546@istar.ca> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:28:02 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Did Tempest Spinner have a foam ring ? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Christopher X. Candreva wrote: > > Simple question, should be easy to settle. My Tempest spinner has a foam > ring around it . Makes it a bit easier to hold and get a grip on. > > Question is, is this original, or something someone added ? It force-fits > snuggly over the platic knob. It's also about worn out. Still better than > not having it there though -- it makes game play a bit easier. > > -Chris > > ========================================================== > Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 > WestNet Internet Services of Westchester > http://www.westnet.com/ Hi, Chris! I don't remember a foam ring on any game, including Tempest. How long would that last in an arcade??? These games were built to be TOUGH! John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 10 19:24:08 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:23:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:24:08 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: Flyers Cc: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 0:01 4/8/98, Jeff Hendrix wrote: >Does anybody have any flyers for atari xy games for sale? >(I own all 13 atari xy games, but am having a dog of a time trying to find >all the flyers) I have the following stuff for sale/trade. I'd probably be looking for around $50 EACH which is why I'd rather trade... Lapel pins (VERY VERY RARE!): Centipede pin (metal) Dig Dug pin (metal) Kangaroo pin (metal) Millipede pin (metal) Missile Command pin (metal) Tempest pin (metal) Xevious pin (metal) Flyers: Boxing Bugs Empire Strikes Back Lunar Lander Quantum Red Baron (cockpit) Solar Quest Star Trek (cockpit; 2 creases from folding in thirds) Star Trek "The Kit" Starhawk Zektor From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 10 20:26:00 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:24:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:23:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Did Tempest Spinner have a foam ring ? In-Reply-To: <352EB912.2546@istar.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, John Robertson wrote: > I don't remember a foam ring on any game, including Tempest. How long > would that last in an arcade??? These games were built to be TOUGH! Not long -- which is why I thought it could possibly have shipped with one, but was long gone by the time I ever saw it in an arcade. My machine looks like it went into a personal collection early in it's life. Hmm -- having a soft grip on the spinner does make the game a bit easier though. Time to start looking for a replacement I guess ! -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 10 20:41:31 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:40:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <352E3CDF.44E5@links.magenta.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:38:07 -0600 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: 6800 opcodes?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Does anyone have an opcode list for the 6800? John Bowen's cpu cards never have ALL the opcodes listed and Im trying to write a 6800 disassembler tonight. I can't find anything on the web either, I went to the motorola site and had their computer fax me the 6800 datasheets but the image quality is so small the the opcode list is unreadable. :-( I figured that the 6800 was so popular that there would be lots of info, but alas... not! thanks jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 10 21:06:26 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:04:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:04:57 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: 6800 disassembler Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) I have my hitachi data book in front of me. I'll scan it in and put it up on wiretap before midnight PDT From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 10 21:21:27 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:19:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <352E460C.1C85@links.magenta.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:17:16 -0600 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6800 disassembler References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Al Kossow wrote: > > I have my hitachi data book in front of me. I'll scan it > in and put it up on wiretap before midnight PDT Cool!!! I knew someone here had to have a databook. Thank you very much. :-) jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 10 22:35:43 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:34:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:33:59 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: 6800 data sheet Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) I was actually thinking of scanning this in anyway, since i've been working on a Drag Race board.. http://www.spies.com/arcade/simulation/processors/DataSheets/6800DataSht.pdf From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 10 22:36:02 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:34:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:34:37 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: 6800 data sheet Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) here's a 6800 data sheet. the others i'm working on tonight will be in the same directory http://www.spies.com/arcade/simulation/processors/DataSheets/6800DataSht.pdf From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 10 23:31:41 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:30:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <352F00D0.2CD@istar.ca> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:34:08 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6800 opcodes?? References: <352E3CDF.44E5@links.magenta.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Jess Askey wrote: > > Does anyone have an opcode list for the 6800? John Bowen's cpu cards > never have ALL the opcodes listed and Im trying to write a 6800 > disassembler tonight. I can't find anything on the web either, I went to > the motorola site and had their computer fax me the 6800 datasheets but > the image quality is so small the the opcode list is unreadable. :-( > I figured that the 6800 was so popular that there would be lots of info, > but alas... not! > thanks > jess > > -- > Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** > Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * > 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * > Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** Hi, Jess! I downloaded a bunch of programs a couple of years ago from the shareware FIDONet sites on this processor. I don't know where in my various computers the info is hiding, but I think if you check out http://www.shareware.com you might find it... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sat Apr 11 07:00:34 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:59:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199804111357.GAA01292@kingdom.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 07:58:34 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: 6800 data sheet In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 10:33 PM 4/10/98 -0700, you wrote: > >I was actually thinking of scanning this in anyway, since i've been >working on a Drag Race board.. > >http://www.spies.com/arcade/simulation/processors/DataSheets/6800DataSht .pdf > Now it would be nice to get a 6809 datasheet up there too... -Anders. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sat Apr 11 07:00:54 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:59:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:58:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6800 opcodes?? In-Reply-To: <352E3CDF.44E5@links.magenta.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Jess Askey wrote: > Does anyone have an opcode list for the 6800? John Bowen's cpu cards > never have ALL the opcodes listed and Im trying to write a 6800 > disassembler tonight. I can't find anything on the web either, I went to I would be surprised if one wasn't already available. Try the old ftp archives -- wuarchive.wustl.edu, oak.oakland.edu, Or -- try an AltaVista search (which I now do) -- and there is one linked on this page: http://www.cpdee.ufmg.br/simtel/simtel_index_disasm.html From the SimTel archives -- should have guess that too ! Hmm -- the simtel archive it links to won't aqllow access -- but it will give you a file name to look for: das68v10.zip -- do an AltaVista search on that file name, and you will get 4 places to find it: -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sat Apr 11 07:19:15 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 07:18:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 07:18:24 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6800 data sheet Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) "Now it would be nice to get a 6809 datasheet up there too..." I was going to do that later today From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sat Apr 11 14:23:52 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:22:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <352F35BE.7837@links.magenta.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:19:58 -0600 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6800 opcodes?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Christopher X. Candreva wrote: > > On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Jess Askey wrote: > > > Does anyone have an opcode list for the 6800? John Bowen's cpu cards > > never have ALL the opcodes listed and Im trying to write a 6800 > > disassembler tonight. I can't find anything on the web either, I went to > > I would be surprised if one wasn't already available. Try the old > ftp archives -- wuarchive.wustl.edu, oak.oakland.edu, Or -- try an > AltaVista search (which I now do) -- and there is one linked on this page: > > http://www.cpdee.ufmg.br/simtel/simtel_index_disasm.html > From the SimTel archives -- should have guess that too ! > Hmm -- the simtel archive it links to won't aqllow access -- but it will > give you a file name to look for: das68v10.zip -- do an AltaVista search on > that file name, and you will get 4 places to find it: My DASM is completely customized and I already know it very well so I would prefer to write one instead of downloading one, that way I can modify the source at will. I finished it this morning, it is actually based from Sean Riddle's 6809dasm program. Im combining the 6809,6800,6802,6808,6502 and Z80 disassemblers into one this weekend. I can upload it to gamearchive (or to spies if Al wants) if people are interested in it. jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sat Apr 11 14:35:31 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:34:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:33:58 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6800 opcodes?? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) I'd be interested in it on spies. I just found a TMS9995 data book I was looking for this afternoon (now, If I can just find one for the Signetics 2650..) so once thats done, I'll do the 6809 (did Star Wars use an 'E' version like the Williams games?) From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sat Apr 11 14:41:22 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:39:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <352F39BE.286A@links.magenta.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:37:02 -0600 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6800 opcodes?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Al Kossow wrote: > > I'd be interested in it on spies. > I just found a TMS9995 data book I was looking for this > afternoon (now, If I can just find one for the Signetics > 2650..) so once thats done, I'll do the 6809 (did Star Wars > use an 'E' version like the Williams games?) Yes it did. Thanks for the 6800 pdf. :-) jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sat Apr 11 16:09:37 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:08:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:07:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6800 opcodes?? In-Reply-To: <352F35BE.7837@links.magenta.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Sat, 11 Apr 1998, Jess Askey wrote: > My DASM is completely customized and I already know it very well so I > would prefer to write one instead of downloading one, that way I can > modify the source at will. Didn't know you had one already -- me, I'm lazy. :-) > I finished it this morning, it is actually based from Sean Riddle's Now THAT'S fast coding ! -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun Apr 12 08:22:55 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 08:22:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 09:25:11 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Star Castle Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) I turned on my star castle yesterday (in preparation for swapping ROMs from my older star castle) and the circuit breakers popped. I narrowed it down to being the monitor as the cause. With the breakers reset, when I turn on the game I hear high voltage and deflection for about 1 second, then a breaker pops. I haven't really worked on cinematronics stuff very much, so I was wondering if this sounds like a problem anybody has encountered and what my first steps should be to trouble shoot this thing. This use to be my only cinematronics monitor that worked (out of 5) but has now joined the rest. -jeff jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun Apr 12 08:43:03 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 08:42:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 09:45:33 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: 6809 assembler and dasm question Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) I've downloaded several 6809 assemblers, but haven't used any yet. I was wondering what the best one to use? Also, I've been using Sean Riddle's 6809dasm program and have noticed that it puts data and ascii next to the memory addresses it came from. This won't work for assemblers (at least the ones I've used in the past). It needs to have a way to define bytes (db?) and ascii for the assembler. Jess, I have a suggestion for your dissassemblers. Put in some kind of switch to turn off the address: that leads every line, and make it enclose data and ascii in whatever directives the assembler needs. It would also be cool to have it put a label for a subroutine where the assembler expects it (I assume this should still be to the left of the first instruction of the subroutine) -jeff jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun Apr 12 08:45:49 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 08:45:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 09:48:22 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: 6800 opcodes?? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Yes, starwars used a 68B09E -jeff >I'd be interested in it on spies. >I just found a TMS9995 data book I was looking for this >afternoon (now, If I can just find one for the Signetics >2650..) so once thats done, I'll do the 6809 (did Star Wars >use an 'E' version like the Williams games?) jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun Apr 12 09:21:51 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 09:21:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 12:20:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: 6809 assembler and dasm question To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-id: <01IVS511NV8I000F36@Eisner.DECUS.Org> Organization: Digital Equipment Computer Users Society X-VMS-To: IN%"vectorlist@spies.com" X-VMS-Cc: BROWN_DU MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Duncan Brown > Also, I've been using Sean Riddle's 6809dasm program and have noticed that > it puts data and ascii next to the memory addresses it came from. This > won't work for assemblers (at least the ones I've used in the past). It > needs to have a way to define bytes (db?) and ascii for the assembler. I haven't used Sean's disassembler or (obviously) Jess', but it sounds like they are "hacking" disassemblers (used for reverse engineering programs efficiently) while you seem to be looking for a "sourcing" disassembler (one whose output can be fed right back into an assembler, generally to prove it produces the same binary, or as the beginning of a modification-after-reverse-engineering project.) Sourcing disassemblers are extremely hard to do well...and of course they need massive feedback from a human in the loop to sort out data tables, jump tables, parameters sitting after subroutine calls, etc. (I used "Sourceror" on the Apple II+ to begin my long journey of producing a commented source for Asteroids, as an example...and as a way to date myself, heh heh heh...) > Jess, I have a suggestion for your dissassemblers. Put in some kind of > switch to turn off the address: that leads every line, and make it enclose > data and ascii in whatever directives the assembler needs. > It would also be cool to have it put a label for a subroutine where the > assembler expects it (I assume this should still be to the left of the > first instruction of the subroutine) But having "address:" for every line is a crude but extremely effective start on the sourcing disassembler you want! You generally have to make labels start with alpha characters, so making the labels of the format "H123F:" for instance will solve that problem. Then all absolute memory references can be disassembled to the format of "JSR H123F" without having to look ahead or back and make sure the target of that reference was successfully disassembled to start on that address. 90% of your work is now done. All you have to do is fix up the beginnings and ends of data areas...and get rid of all unused labels, if you desire. FWIW, Sourceror actually went to the trouble of getting rid of labels it saw no reference to, but did *not* do anything about using absolute references it discovered to fix up the edges of data (since the absolute reference it discovered could just as easily be some data that was mistakenly disassembled!) If anyone is interested in this enough to the point of spending some serious bucks, I could dig up the info I got years ago about some commercial sourcing disassembler/reassembler products. Their ostensible purpose was to recover source code for your own company, where all that was left was the binary. They looked seriously powerful, capable...and expensive. I have no idea if the companies are even still around...as nobody is doing embedded 6809 work any more, right? (I'm trying to be humorous...) Duncan From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun Apr 12 10:19:54 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:19:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <35304E1B.BFC@links.magenta.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 23:16:11 -0600 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6809 assembler and dasm question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Jeff Hendrix wrote: > Jess, I have a suggestion for your dissassemblers. Put in some kind of > switch to turn off the address: that leads every line, and make it enclose > data and ascii in whatever directives the assembler needs. > It would also be cool to have it put a label for a subroutine where the > assembler expects it (I assume this should still be to the left of the > first instruction of the subroutine) > I can send you a version of Sean's 6809DASM that doesn't print out the address. I really like his DASM beacuse it is very versitile with labels and comments. Im in the process (ooh, so many processes) of writing up a 6502 Software development kit for windows. It will allow you to read in binary data files (best to paste all ROM images for one game together into a big mega-file), disassemble them into opcodes, allow you to edit the source to your hearts content and then compile it all back into a binary file fit for burning. I want to make it table based so that I can easily port it to other processors (mostly the 68xx series since I work with Williams Pins as well). This will be a major development and Im hoping that it will actually lead to people 'creating' their own games for hardware platforms such as Tempest, Star Wars and Space Duel. Paul... maybe you can make your dream come true! :-) Im writing the whole thing in C++ builder so you mac guys will be left out but I will hapily give you the source if you want. jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun Apr 12 10:29:56 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:29:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <35305082.648B@links.magenta.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 23:26:26 -0600 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: 6xxx dasm/asm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Hi all, I forgot to mention in my previous msg about the dissassembler assembler that I know someone in Italy that already has a more simple version of 6502 sdk finished, it doesn't DASM yet but it does go forward. He actually sent me the source so I can translate it to C++ builder (he is using an old version of Borland's ObjectWindows which is now obsolete). Problem is... it is all in italian :-0 Anyone know Italian? jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun Apr 12 10:37:08 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:36:27 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6809 assembler and dasm question Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) "This will be a major development and Im hoping that it will actually lead to people 'creating' their own games for hardware platforms such as Tempest, Star Wars and Space Duel. Paul..." YES! please keep the display part separate/portable so I can get this running on my PowerMac. I started to do this for the Sega games the middle of last year, and got distracted by all the 'bronzeage' stuff i'm working on right now. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun Apr 12 16:48:08 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 16:46:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199804122345.QAA29054@kingdom.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 17:46:11 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: 6809 assembler and dasm question In-Reply-To: <35304E1B.BFC@links.magenta.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 11:16 PM 4/11/98 -0600, Jess wrote: >>=20 >I can send you a version of Sean's 6809DASM that doesn't print out the >address.=20 >I really like his DASM beacuse it is very versitile with labels and >comments. >Im in the process (ooh, so many processes) of writing up a 6502 Software >development=20 >kit for windows. It will allow you to read in binary data files (best to >paste all >ROM images for one game together into a big mega-file), disassemble them >into opcodes, >allow you to edit the source to your hearts content and then compile it >all back into=20 >a binary file fit for burning. I want to make it table based so that I >can easily port=20 >it to other processors (mostly the 68xx series since I work with >Williams Pins as well). >This will be a major development and Im hoping that it will actually >lead to people 'creating' >their own games for hardware platforms such as Tempest, Star Wars and >Space Duel. Paul... >maybe you can make your dream come true! :-) >=A0 Im writing the whole thing in C++ builder so you mac guys will be left >out but I will hapily give >you the source if you want. > >=A0 jess Are you actually going to use object based C++ (I hate C++)? Normal C is so much easier to read/debug/port. Just my opinion though. As far as leaving "Mac guys" out, the raw code could be ported. Now if everyone would just use Metrowerks CodeWarrior...;-) -Anders. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun Apr 12 19:59:42 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:58:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <35317EF6.B3@links.magenta.com> Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:56:54 -0600 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6809 assembler and dasm question References: <199804122345.QAA29054@kingdom.adaptec.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Anders Knudsen wrote: > > jess > Are you actually going to use object based C++ (I hate C++)? Normal C is so > much easier to read/debug/port. Just my opinion though. > As far as leaving "Mac guys" out, the raw code could be ported. Now if > everyone > would just use Metrowerks CodeWarrior...;-) > -Anders. Yeah, I hate C++ as well. I struggled for a week trying to get a file to go into an editor as hexidecimal instead of text. But Im not a very good programmer mind you. What is code warrior? I would be more than happy to write it with something else. jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun Apr 12 20:11:20 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:09:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199804130308.UAA04041@kingdom.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:09:18 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: 6809 assembler and dasm question In-Reply-To: <35317EF6.B3@links.magenta.com> References: <199804122345.QAA29054@kingdom.adaptec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 08:56 PM 4/12/98 -0600, Jess wrote: >Yeah, I hate C++ as well. I struggled for a week trying to get a file to >go into an >editor as hexidecimal instead of text. But Im not a very good programmer >mind you. > What is code warrior? I would be more than happy to write it with >something else. >jess http://www.metrowerks.com These guys probably make the best IDE for programmers ever! With one product on either the Mac or Windoze platform you can develop and actually compile for either platform. i.e., write and develop and compile a mac executable on your windoze machine and visa versa. Al probably knows about code warrior. Jeff Hendrix writes code at Quark for a living so he could chime in aswell (I know they use CodeWarrior, I used to work there). Anyway, kinda off topic, but we all need compilers, eh? -Anders. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun Apr 12 22:04:30 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:02:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 23:05:53 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: 6809 assembler and dasm question Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Yea, codewarrior rules. I recently read a review of code warrior on the PC and the reviewer said he would gladly throw away all his other compilers in exchange for code warrior. -jeff >At 08:56 PM 4/12/98 -0600, Jess wrote: >>Yeah, I hate C++ as well. I struggled for a week trying to get a file to >>go into an >>editor as hexidecimal instead of text. But Im not a very good programmer >>mind you. >> What is code warrior? I would be more than happy to write it with >>something else. >>jess >http://www.metrowerks.com >These guys probably make the best IDE for programmers ever! With one >product on >either the Mac or Windoze platform you can develop and actually compile for >either platform. i.e., write and develop and compile a mac executable on your >windoze machine and visa versa. >Al probably knows about code warrior. Jeff Hendrix writes code at Quark for a >living so he could chime in aswell (I know they use CodeWarrior, I used to >work >there). >Anyway, kinda off topic, but we all need compilers, eh? >-Anders. jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 13 07:57:35 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:55:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:54:30 +0100 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: CodeWarrior Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) =46or anyone that's interested, here are the release note for CodeWarrior= Pro 2. -jeff Welcome To CodeWarrior=AE Professional, Release 2 This release brings you the latest multi-host, multi-language, multi-target developer tools from Metrowerks. CodeWarrior provides you with unmatched value, choice, and flexibility in software development. We've worked hard to bring this release of CodeWarrior to you. We hope it serves you well. You'll find the latest information about all Metrowerks products at the Metrowerks Web page, . To help you get started using this software, read the QuickStart guide at the top level of this CD-ROM. If you are new to CodeWarrior, check out the CodeWarrior Core Tutorials in the documentation directory. The tutorials take you on a guided tour of some of the major components of CodeWarrior. They introduce you to basic skills using the IDE, project manager, editor, and debugger. The CodeWarrior Tools The Integrated Development Environment (IDE) is the center of CodeWarrior software development. This powerful IDE combines a sophisticated project manager, friendly source-code editor, and multi-language code browser together with advanced compilers and linkers. In CodeWarrior Professional, these tools let you choose your: * host - Windows 95/NT and Mac OS computers; * language - C, C++, Java, Pascal, and Assembly; * target - Windows 95/NT, Mac OS, and Java Virtual Machine. This single IDE also supports development for a variety of other target processors and operating systems, using plugin compilers and linkers (available in other CodeWarrior products). CodeWarrior is more than the IDE. CodeWarrior includes a multi-language source-code debugger that lets you work in any of the supported languages. Of course, every CodeWarrior product also includes other utilities and libraries you need to program for the targets supported in that product. CodeWarrior Never Stops Getting Better Every release of CodeWarrior provides new features and improvements across the entire suite of tools. Read the "What's New in CWPro" document at the top level of your CD for a comprehensive list of the latest and greatest improvements. Some of the highlights for this release include: * project files that are interchangeable between Windows and Mac; * the ability to compare two source files, see the differences graphically, and merge changes; * a "current target" column in the project window that - shows you whether a file belongs to the current target and - lets you easily add or remove any file from the current target; * a code browser that works across targets and subprojects; * version 2.0 of our C/C++ compiler, which supports namespaces and has improved template support. We Listen, We Act We at Metrowerks are strongly committed to your satisfaction. As part of that commitment, we are interested in what you have to say about this software. Many of the features and improvements you see with each release are inspired by your suggestions. You can contact us through e-mail, newsgroups, the World Wide Web, and our forum on CompuServe. You can also reach us by voice or fax. For details on contacting Metrowerks, browse our web page, or see the front of any CodeWarrior manual. I welcome and encourage comments. You can contact me directly by sending e-mail to prez@metrowerks.com. Drop us a line to let us know how we're doing. We'll listen and we'll act. Greg Galanos President & Chief Technology Officer Metrowerks Corporation October 8, 1997 Metrowerks, the Metrowerks logo, CodeWarrior, and PowerPlant are registered trademarks of Metrowerks Inc. CodeWarrior Constructor, Geekware, PowerParts, and Discover Programming are trademarks of Metrowerks Inc. All other trademarks are hereby recognized as the property of their respective owners. jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 13 08:07:15 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:05:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:04:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist@spies.com cc: Jeff Hendrix Subject: Re: CodeWarrior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mitchell Rohde And for anyone out there affiliated with an academic institution... Codewarrior full version is some super-cheap price of like $100 with the academic discount.... Mitch From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 13 09:14:52 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:12:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: 6809 assembler and dasm question Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:11:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > I've downloaded several 6809 assemblers, but haven't used any yet. I > was > wondering what the best one to use? > I like the (slightly modified) Motorola AS9_NEW.EXE assembler. It's just the stock 6809 stuff, but with a couple of memory-leak kinda things fixed. I used it for all the Vectrex programming I did with good results. -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 13 16:35:03 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:33:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: This is pretty cool... Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:32:55 GMT Message-ID: <35339fe6.965338358@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) How's this for a classic vector game! Spacewar circa 1961! http://lcs.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/projects/spacewar/ -Zonn (Java sucks!) <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 13 16:45:32 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:44:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:44:05 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: This is pretty cool... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) "(Java sucks!)" all the sources are there, including the spacewar source http://lcs.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/projects/spacewar/sources/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 13 17:24:11 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 17:22:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: This is pretty cool... Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:15:13 GMT Message-ID: <3536aa50.968004844@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:44:05 -0700 (PDT), aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) = wrote: >"(Java sucks!)" > >all the sources are there, including the spacewar source >http://lcs.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/projects/spacewar/sources/ And for the "emulator inclined" the PDP1 instructions set can be found = out: http://www.dbit.com/~greeng3/pdp1/index.html -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 13 17:29:13 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 17:27:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 17:27:47 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: This is pretty cool... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) ""And for the "emulator inclined" the PDP1 instructions set can be found = out: http://www.dbit.com/~greeng3/pdp1/index.html" ..actually, there is a PDP-1 simuator as part of the DEC simulator collection (doesn't simulate the x/y scope though) wasn't the PDP-1 display point-plot, BTW? From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 13 18:17:53 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:15:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: This is pretty cool... Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 01:15:57 GMT Message-ID: <3537b5e2.970967573@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Mon, 13 Apr 1998 17:27:47 -0700 (PDT), aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) = wrote: > >""And for the "emulator inclined" the PDP1 instructions set can be found= =3D >out: > > http://www.dbit.com/~greeng3/pdp1/index.html" > >..actually, there is a PDP-1 simuator as part of=20 >the DEC simulator collection >(doesn't simulate the x/y scope though) > >wasn't the PDP-1 display point-plot, BTW? =46rom what I can tell by reading the above link to the "Handbook", the = only instruction available was "Plot a single point". There is no "turn point on / turn point off" just plot. So I assume either the point remains until you "plot another point" or = more likely the point is "strobed" and if you want the point to remain then = you must constantly rewrite the point. The phosphor was very slow and the = handbook claims 20,000 points per second may be plotted. Does this mean the = strobe length was 1/20000 of a second? It looks like a DVG where the PDP-1 had to plot each point! At a 5us instruction clock, with 10us average instruction times the Frame Per = Second couldn't be that fast! It would be neat to see a realtime emulation of the game (using the = proper instruction times to recreate the actual game speed). It wouldn't play = as nice as the Cinematronics version, but hey, you could release the "roms" with = the code with nothing more than a (well deserved) acknowledgement to the = authors! -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 13 23:09:03 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:07:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3532FCFF.35D2F68A@telis.org> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:06:55 -0700 From: Bill Esquivel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Al Kossow Subject: Re: This is pretty cool... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Bill Esquivel Al, I am changing internet providers sometime on tuesday. Can you remove my name off the spies list for a few days. I will email you back when I confirm the new address. LAter, Bill Al Kossow wrote: > "(Java sucks!)" > > all the sources are there, including the spacewar source > http://lcs.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/projects/spacewar/sources/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 05:00:20 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 04:59:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: djeffery@multipath.com (Doug Jefferys) Message-Id: <199804141156.HAA07612@mpsrv3.multipath.com> Subject: Re: This is pretty cool... To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 07:56:32 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <3536aa50.968004844@tommy.doctord.com> from "Zonn" at Apr 14, 98 00:15:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: djeffery@multipath.com (Doug Jefferys) Once upon a time, Zonn wrote: > > >"(Java sucks!)" Too true. But that said... > >all the sources are there, including the spacewar source > >http://lcs.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/projects/spacewar/sources/ ...I've wanted to see this ever since reading "Hackers", by Steven Levy, way back in the distant mists of time. The closest I got was when I saw the name "Spacewar" on the carcass of a PDP-1 at Science North in Sudbury some 10 years ago. Thanx for the seriously cool link. Later, Doug. -- Douglas W. Jefferys | Star Data Systems | Email: djeffery@multipath.com | From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 06:56:33 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 06:54:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199804141354.JAA12310@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: This is pretty cool... To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:54:21 -0500 (EDT) Cc: zonn@zonn.com In-Reply-To: <35339fe6.965338358@tommy.doctord.com> from "Zonn" at Apr 13, 98 11:32:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Paul Kahler > -Zonn > > (Java sucks!) Cool! I'll have a few days off between jobs and was thinking about trying a cinematronics emulator written in Java, but now I see this is a really stupid idea :-) Thanks for the pointer, -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 08:23:15 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 09:21:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 12:20:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: 6809 assembler and dasm question To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-id: <01IVS511NV8I000F36@Eisner.DECUS.Org> Organization: Digital Equipment Computer Users Society X-VMS-To: IN%"vectorlist@spies.com" X-VMS-Cc: BROWN_DU MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Duncan Brown > Also, I've been using Sean Riddle's 6809dasm program and have noticed that > it puts data and ascii next to the memory addresses it came from. This > won't work for assemblers (at least the ones I've used in the past). It > needs to have a way to define bytes (db?) and ascii for the assembler. I haven't used Sean's disassembler or (obviously) Jess', but it sounds like they are "hacking" disassemblers (used for reverse engineering programs efficiently) while you seem to be looking for a "sourcing" disassembler (one whose output can be fed right back into an assembler, generally to prove it produces the same binary, or as the beginning of a modification-after-reverse-engineering project.) Sourcing disassemblers are extremely hard to do well...and of course they need massive feedback from a human in the loop to sort out data tables, jump tables, parameters sitting after subroutine calls, etc. (I used "Sourceror" on the Apple II+ to begin my long journey of producing a commented source for Asteroids, as an example...and as a way to date myself, heh heh heh...) > Jess, I have a suggestion for your dissassemblers. Put in some kind of > switch to turn off the address: that leads every line, and make it enclose > data and ascii in whatever directives the assembler needs. > It would also be cool to have it put a label for a subroutine where the > assembler expects it (I assume this should still be to the left of the > first instruction of the subroutine) But having "address:" for every line is a crude but extremely effective start on the sourcing disassembler you want! You generally have to make labels start with alpha characters, so making the labels of the format "H123F:" for instance will solve that problem. Then all absolute memory references can be disassembled to the format of "JSR H123F" without having to look ahead or back and make sure the target of that reference was successfully disassembled to start on that address. 90% of your work is now done. All you have to do is fix up the beginnings and ends of data areas...and get rid of all unused labels, if you desire. FWIW, Sourceror actually went to the trouble of getting rid of labels it saw no reference to, but did *not* do anything about using absolute references it discovered to fix up the edges of data (since the absolute reference it discovered could just as easily be some data that was mistakenly disassembled!) If anyone is interested in this enough to the point of spending some serious bucks, I could dig up the info I got years ago about some commercial sourcing disassembler/reassembler products. Their ostensible purpose was to recover source code for your own company, where all that was left was the binary. They looked seriously powerful, capable...and expensive. I have no idea if the companies are even still around...as nobody is doing embedded 6809 work any more, right? (I'm trying to be humorous...) Duncan From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 08:41:19 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:39:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:38:16 +0100 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Flukes Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Here is the description of these fluke meters. Whats the difference between these and the series III? -jeff Jeff The Fluke 87's are new, never been used, come with warranty info and test leads. Just like what you would expect if bought in a store. They are not the series III. They are left over from a contract job with Boeing Airplane Co. I have sold a number of these on the NET and are last of the group. I also have clamp-on amp meters left too. A few Infrared Temp Probs. Let me know on the meters. Brooks jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 08:42:44 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:41:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:39:52 +0100 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: RE: 6809 assembler and dasm question Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) OK Clay, where do you find this AS9_NEW.EXE assembler? -jeff >> I've downloaded several 6809 assemblers, but haven't used any yet. I >> was >> wondering what the best one to use? >> >I like the (slightly modified) Motorola AS9_NEW.EXE assembler. It's >just the stock 6809 stuff, but with a couple of memory-leak kinda things >fixed. I used it for all the Vectrex programming I did with good >results. > >-Clay jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 09:31:21 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:29:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: 6809 assembler and dasm question Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:28:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >OK Clay, where do you find this AS9_NEW.EXE assembler? It was lurking somewhere in the depths of the Motorola Freeware BBS. (Which is now craftily hidden in the immense Motorola Website... ;-) If you want it a little easier, go to my webpage (http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/Vectrex.html) and grab it there. It uses the standard ASxx assembler style. While we're on the subject of assmeblers/disassemblers... A while back I got a new hard drive and I had a little "scrap" partition on it that I decided to put all my assemblers/disassemblers on. I made a directory for each processor (6809, 8051, 8048, 6800, 6802, 6809, Z80, 1802, 68000, 6805, 68HC11, TMS9900, etc.) Basically anything I thought I'd even run across on a game except Intel "80xx" family stuff... Then I went through a few engineering BBS, old "programmers" CD-ROMs, some old tape backups from school, and whatever else I could find. Got to be a pretty good collection of stuff. There are also all the assorted S-record, hex, bin convertors to get the output to a ROM-able image. Most "common" directories have several different versions-- 3 or 4 Z-80 disassemblers, as well as stuff like DOS utilities for the processor, manuals for the assemblers, etc. Anyway, I was going to put together a web-site that was just "one-stop shopping" for this kind of thing. So... anybody want me to put this stuff up on my webpage? (no need to clutter vectorlist with feedback-- just drop me an e-mail to clayc@diamondmm.com) Thanks, -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 10:45:59 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:44:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <35339FD4.3852@links.magenta.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:41:40 -0600 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6809 assembler and dasm question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Jeff Hendrix wrote: > > OK Clay, where do you find this AS9_NEW.EXE assembler? > Searching 101: via ftp search at http://ftpsearch.ntnu.no/. I got the following results... 1 -r--r--r-- 21.3K 1994 Dec 7 ftp.cnr.it /pub/micros/motorola/ibm/as9_new.exe 2 -rw-r--r-- 21.3K 1994 Dec 7 ftp.ee.ualberta.ca /pub/motorola/ibm/as9_new.exe 3 -r--r--r-- 21.3K 1994 Dec 7 ftp.gre.ac.uk /pub/robotics/motorola/ibm/as9_new.exe 4 -rw-rw-r-- 21.3K 1994 Dec 7 ftp.unina.it /pub/Other/electronics/motorola/ibm/as9_new.exe FTP search is SOOOOOOO powerful! jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 11:28:33 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:27:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:25:50 +0100 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: 6809 assembler and dasm question Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) OK, I think there are some bugs in this disassembler I'm getting the following 33 5F LEAU $FFFF,U 30 1F LEAX $FFFF,X from what I can tell from the data sheet (thanks AL) these should be indexed with a constant 5 bit offset from R. I would expect something more like LEAU $1F,U LEAX $1F,X -jeff jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 12:14:52 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:13:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6809 assembler and dasm question Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:13:10 GMT Message-ID: <3534b4d4.1036243105@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:25:50 +0100, jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) wrote: >OK, I think there are some bugs in this disassembler > >I'm getting the following > >33 5F LEAU $FFFF,U >30 1F LEAX $FFFF,X > >from what I can tell from the data sheet (thanks AL) these should be >indexed with a constant 5 bit offset from R. > >I would expect something more like > >LEAU $1F,U >LEAX $1F,X (Just from memory so I should probably not even respond here...) I believe the offsets on the 6809 were signed. In which case the above = '1F' would be sign extended to 'FFFF'. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 14:46:56 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:45:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3533D89D.6D56@links.magenta.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:43:57 -0600 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: 6800 hidden opcodes? References: <3534b4d4.1036243105@tommy.doctord.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey This whole assembler topic is a bit off from the purpose of this list so I aplogize and this will be my last question... Did the 6800 have any hidden opcodes like the 6809 and others did? I have some opcodes for the 6800 that arent defined in Al's Hitachi Datasheet but they are clearly within code areas and not data? I searched the net but didn't find any info on them. The 6800 is quite a bit simpler and organized a bit differently in the areas where the mystery opcodes would be so I don't think they match with equivalent 6809 opcodes. thanks for all the info. There are just so many knowlegeable hackers on this list that it is THE best resource for an answer. :-0 jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 14:57:59 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:56:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:56:24 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6800 hidden opcodes? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) there aren't any 'hidden' opcodes, but there were other 6800 familiy procesors with more instructions. the 'undefined' opcodes will do something on these old processors, I have the codes for 6502's and Z80's, but not 6800's From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 15:19:33 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:18:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6800 hidden opcodes? Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:18:04 GMT Message-ID: <3539df27.1047079782@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3534b4d4.1036243105@tommy.doctord.com> <3533D89D.6D56@links.magenta.com> In-Reply-To: <3533D89D.6D56@links.magenta.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:43:57 -0600, Jess Askey wrote: >This whole assembler topic is a bit off from the purpose of this list so >I aplogize and >this will be my last question... > Did the 6800 have any hidden opcodes like the 6809 and others did? I >have some opcodes=20 >for the 6800 that arent defined in Al's Hitachi Datasheet but they are >clearly within=20 >code areas and not data? I searched the net but didn't find any info on >them. > The 6800 is quite a bit simpler and organized a bit differently in the >areas where the=20 >mystery opcodes would be so I don't think they match with equivalent >6809 opcodes. > thanks for all the info. There are just so many knowlegeable hackers >on this list that >it is THE best resource for an answer. :-0 There was at least one undocumented opcode for the 6800. I can't = remember the hex value of it, but it's unofficial name was "HCF" or "Halt and Catch = Fire". Upon executing this opcode the processor began incrementing is address = and data lines at full clock speed (I believe, this is all from memory). Only = reset would get you out. Presumably this was used at the factory to test the = processor. I never heard of anyone making practical use of this instruction. I really can't remember if there were other undocumented codes... -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 15:29:43 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:28:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6800 hidden opcodes? Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:28:19 GMT Message-ID: <353ae147.1047624148@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:56:24 -0700 (PDT), aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) = wrote: >there aren't any 'hidden' opcodes, but there were other 6800 > >familiy procesors with more instructions. There was the 6803/6303 processors which used a superset of the 6800 instruction. It included a MUL instruction which multiplied the A and B register and = left the results in the D register (which was the A and B registers combined). I believe there were a few other instructions added to deal with the D = register. STAD and LDAD, maybe a shift D? TXD? TDX? I went looking for my old = 6303 manual and couldn't find it. :^( >the 'undefined' opcodes will do something on these old processors, >I have the codes for 6502's and Z80's, but not 6800's Z80's had *many* undefined opcodes. Including opcodes that allowed you = to treat the IX (and IY) register as two 8 bit registers, IXH and IXL. That was = cool. I never figured out why Zilog didn't just document them, near the end of = the TRS-80 era they were being used fairly regularly. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 15:38:15 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:36:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: 6800 hidden opcodes? Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:35:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > There was the 6803/6303 processors which used a superset of the 6800 > instruction. > > It included a MUL instruction which multiplied the A and B register > and left the > results in the D register (which was the A and B registers combined). > That's how the 6809 works too, BTW... > I believe there were a few other instructions added to deal with the D > register. > STAD and LDAD, maybe a shift D? TXD? TDX? I went looking for my old > 6303 > manual and couldn't find it. :^( > In 6809-land those were ldd and std... -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 16:24:34 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:22:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6800 hidden opcodes? Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:22:47 GMT Message-ID: <353be97a.1049723511@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:35:22 -0700, Clay Cowgill = wrote: >> There was the 6803/6303 processors which used a superset of the 6800 >> instruction. >>=20 >> It included a MUL instruction which multiplied the A and B register >> and left the >> results in the D register (which was the A and B registers combined). >>=20 >That's how the 6809 works too, BTW... > >> I believe there were a few other instructions added to deal with the D >> register. >> STAD and LDAD, maybe a shift D? TXD? TDX? I went looking for my old >> 6303 >> manual and couldn't find it. :^( >>=20 >In 6809-land those were ldd and std... Yeah, in the 6800 world they were pretty obsessed with "STA" meaning = "Store Accumulator" not "Store A-reg". So the "official" opcodes were: STA A STA B STA D (for the 6803 -- if this opcode really exists) You were allowed to leave off the space and simply write: STAA STAB STAD A believe you were allowed to carry that syntax over to the 6809 = assemblers if you wanted, but to make things simple they allowed things to be = shortened. Though I believe the 6809 always used the short versions for the 16 bit registers: STX LDX STD LDD They also allowed you not to type a zero offset from an index which I = always thought looked kinda funny: LDA ,X instead of: LDA 0,X I started my career (*many* moons ago) programming motor control logic in= 6800 assembly language then graduated to writing assembly language device = drivers for OS-9 (A 6809 based unix type operating system that was pretty darn cool!) I still think Motorola did the best job of designing instruction sets. = Too bad their sales/service departments have always been the worst of all micro-processor manufacturers (with the possible exception of Texas = Instruments) or the IBM-PC just might have had a 68000 in it instead of a 8088 (which = was more like an 8080++). -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 16:28:17 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:26:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Michael Searle Message-ID: To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6800 hidden opcodes? References: <3534b4d4.1036243105@tommy.doctord.com> <3533D89D.6D56@links.magenta.com> <3539df27.1047079782@tommy.doctord.com> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:07:32 BST X-Mailer: Offlite 0.09 / Termite Internet for Acorn RISC OS Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Michael Searle zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) wrote: > There was at least one undocumented opcode for the 6800. I can't = > remember the hex value of it, but it's unofficial name was "HCF" or > "Halt and Catch = Fire". Upon executing this opcode the processor began > incrementing is address = and data lines at full clock speed (I believe, > this is all from memory). Only = reset would get you out. Presumably > this was used at the factory to test the = processor. I never heard of > anyone making practical use of this instruction. 6502s have this opcode as well - and on some 6502s it really can destroy the CPU. (or so I've heard anyway...) It does something similar to the 6800's - toggling bus lines - so it may be that this is true for the 6800 as well. > I really can't remember if there were other undocumented codes... -- Michael Searle - csubl@csv.warwick.ac.uk From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 17:08:12 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:06:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: 6800 hidden opcodes? Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:05:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > 6502s have this opcode as well - and on some 6502s it really can > destroy > the CPU. (or so I've heard anyway...) It does something similar to the > 6800's - toggling bus lines - so it may be that this is true for the > 6800 as well. > From and old copy of "The New Hacker's Dictionary": HCF /H-C-F/ n. Mnemonic for 'Halt and Catch Fire', any of several undocumented and semi-mythical machine instructions with destructive side-effects, supposedly included for test purposes on several well-known architectures going as far back as the IBM 360. The MC6800 microprocessor was the first for which the HCF opcode became widely known. This instruction caused the processor to toggle a subset of the bus lines as rapidly as it could; in some configurations this can actually cause lines to burn up. -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 14 17:49:34 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:48:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 6800 hidden opcodes? Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:48:03 GMT Message-ID: <353cff69.1055338912@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:05:13 -0700, Clay Cowgill = wrote: >> 6502s have this opcode as well - and on some 6502s it really can >> destroy >> the CPU. (or so I've heard anyway...) It does something similar to the >> 6800's - toggling bus lines - so it may be that this is true for the >> 6800 as well. >>=20 > From and old copy of "The New Hacker's Dictionary": > >HCF /H-C-F/ n. Mnemonic for 'Halt and Catch Fire', any of several >undocumented and semi-mythical machine instructions with destructive >side-effects, supposedly included for test purposes on several >well-known architectures going as far back as the IBM 360. When I was attending a local Jr College they had a IBM 360 clone (A = Univac -- well actually the 360 was a Univac clone since Univac sued IBM for use of= their instruction set and won.) There were these "SVC" or "Service Call" instructions that called parts = of the operating system/hardware. There were 256 SVC. The assembler wouldn't allow certain codes to be = assembled, but of course nothing stop you from just typing them in, in hex. I remember SVC 90 was pretty cool. It brought the system down *hard*. = It cleared all registers, cleared the drum, clear all virtual memory, and = cleared the core. It didn't even allow for the normal "Abnormal Termination" = dumped that allowed the sysop to step through and find out who crashed the = system. It also almost got me kick out of school. Those were two powerful bytes! =46WIW: The system operator didn't really have to step through the code = to find out what happened, I think the sequence of events was: Execute SVC 90 System crashes *BAD* Zonn: "Fuck!" Lab telephone: *Ring* Zonn [picks up phone]: "Uh, Hey Rob what's going on?" Rob: "Something told me you were in the Lab, why don't you come down = here, I need to talk with you..." That would have been fine except a friend of mine at the time had to show= off the SVC 90 on two more occasions, almost getting both of us thrown out of school. He was one of those "Psycho Nerds" who claimed: "We have the right to = execute any opcode we want! If it's available on the architecture then, damn = it!, it's ours to use!" The administration had no idea what he was talking = about... I'm still not sure I do... -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 15 01:55:25 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 01:54:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Kgowland Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 04:52:59 EDT To: vectorlist@spies.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Can I use WG electronics with an Ampliphone tube? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kgowland I have two working WG6101's and I have been led to believe that the WG HV and deflection boards can run an Ampliphone tube. Is this true and can the reverse (Ampliphone boards running a WG tube) be possible? If any of this will work, what will the resulting picture quality be like? I have seen Star Wars running on WG's and I don't like it. One more question: one of the WG's is displaying jittery vectors but I don't think the deflection pcb is at fault because it worked fine in the other unit. Could I have a bad connection from one of the transistors to the chassis? Kirby G From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 15 11:27:19 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:24:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "TomW" To: Subject: StarWars Power supply question Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:56:33 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "TomW" Gang, Have a question for you: I am restoring a starwars that was missing the power transformer assembly from the bottom of the cab. The game has an ampliphone monitor and I have a wintron flyback in stock to repair it so I would rather keep the ampliphone.... So now here's the question. The original transformer drove the ampliphone monitor at 50VCT, I have several transformers from asteroids etc, but they put out 65VCT for the monitor. Now as I look at the monitor schematics, the HV section has its own regulators to drop it down to (If I remember right) +24,-24VDC so, I should be ok their. But, the deflection circuit draws from the unregulated +25,-25 VDC sections of the rectified 50VCT seconday's, which would now be around 32VDC with the asteroids supply. This variance is way out of spec for the ampliphone, which I think was %5 on the + going side, and %10 on the neg., and I'm afraid I'd fry the deflection circuit in the ampliphone... Any recommended modification to the deflection board ??? Also this would lead me to believe that putting a non-ampliphone monitor in a SW would result in the monitor being under-driven, which I guess is compensated by turning up the XY gain on the game board, but as your AC line fluctuates your monitor could waver. But since no-one has ever mentioned it, maybe the electrohomes have a better tolerance for this type of thing. Any suggestions...... Thanks TomW From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 15 11:36:36 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:35:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:35:04 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: StarWars Power supply question Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Atari made two different transformer assemblies; one for the B&W games, and one for the color games. You need to find a "Tempest" style transformer assembly. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 15 12:18:41 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:16:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:15:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist@spies.com cc: TomW Subject: Atari BW XY Power followup question! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mitchell Rohde Following up on this, the BW transformer assembly is NOT the same for all BW XY Atari games. The Battlezone and Asteroids assembly, though they look alike, are not. The asteroids uses all 5 fuses on the block, and battlezone uses 4. More significantly, the taps (if I remember correctly) are like 30-0-30 on one and 40-0-40 on the other. Last time I checked the tolerances in the G-05 monitor spec basically indicated that the asteroids assembly pushes the +-X% limits of the G05. Of course, you guys have more experience than I in swapping things in and out. Comments? Mitch On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, TomW wrote: > Gang, > > Have a question for you: > > I am restoring a starwars that was missing the power transformer assembly > from the bottom of the cab. The game has an ampliphone monitor and I have a > wintron flyback in stock to repair it so I would rather keep the > ampliphone.... > > So now here's the question. The original transformer drove the ampliphone > monitor at 50VCT, I have several transformers from asteroids etc, but they > put out 65VCT for the monitor. Now as I look at the monitor schematics, the > HV section has its own regulators to drop it down to (If I remember right) > +24,-24VDC so, I should be ok their. But, the deflection circuit draws from > the unregulated +25,-25 VDC sections of the rectified 50VCT seconday's, > which would now be around 32VDC with the asteroids supply. This variance is > way out of spec for the ampliphone, which I think was %5 on the + going > side, and %10 on the neg., and I'm afraid I'd fry the deflection circuit in > the ampliphone... Any recommended modification to the deflection board ??? > > Also this would lead me to believe that putting a non-ampliphone monitor in > a SW would result in the monitor being under-driven, which I guess is > compensated by turning up the XY gain on the game board, but as your AC > line fluctuates your monitor could waver. But since no-one has ever > mentioned it, maybe the electrohomes have a better tolerance for this type > of thing. > > Any suggestions...... > > Thanks > TomW > > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 15 13:13:25 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:11:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D03E3F5C0@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (Comforce/RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Atari BW XY Power followup question! Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:34:15 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2166.0) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (Comforce/RhoTech)" Don't know for sure what the difference is. But I do know that I have run a BZ boardset off of an Asteroids power supply. David > ---------- > From: Mitchell Rohde[SMTP:bovine@eecs.umich.edu] > Reply To: vectorlist@spies.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 12:15 PM > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: TomW; Mitchell Rohde > Subject: Atari BW XY Power followup question! > > > Following up on this, the BW transformer assembly is NOT the same for all > BW XY Atari games. The Battlezone and Asteroids assembly, though they > look alike, are not. The asteroids uses all 5 fuses on the block, and > battlezone uses 4. More significantly, the taps (if I remember correctly) > are like 30-0-30 on one and 40-0-40 on the other. > > Last time I checked the tolerances in the G-05 monitor spec basically > indicated that the asteroids assembly pushes the +-X% limits of the G05. > > Of course, you guys have more experience than I in swapping things in and > out. Comments? > > Mitch > > On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, TomW wrote: > > > Gang, > > > > Have a question for you: > > > > I am restoring a starwars that was missing the power transformer > assembly > > from the bottom of the cab. The game has an ampliphone monitor and I > have a > > wintron flyback in stock to repair it so I would rather keep the > > ampliphone.... > > > > So now here's the question. The original transformer drove the > ampliphone > > monitor at 50VCT, I have several transformers from asteroids etc, but > they > > put out 65VCT for the monitor. Now as I look at the monitor schematics, > the > > HV section has its own regulators to drop it down to (If I remember > right) > > +24,-24VDC so, I should be ok their. But, the deflection circuit draws > from > > the unregulated +25,-25 VDC sections of the rectified 50VCT seconday's, > > which would now be around 32VDC with the asteroids supply. This variance > is > > way out of spec for the ampliphone, which I think was %5 on the + going > > side, and %10 on the neg., and I'm afraid I'd fry the deflection circuit > in > > the ampliphone... Any recommended modification to the deflection board > ??? > > > > Also this would lead me to believe that putting a non-ampliphone monitor > in > > a SW would result in the monitor being under-driven, which I guess is > > compensated by turning up the XY gain on the game board, but as your AC > > line fluctuates your monitor could waver. But since no-one has ever > > mentioned it, maybe the electrohomes have a better tolerance for this > type > > of thing. > > > > Any suggestions...... > > > > Thanks > > TomW > > > > > > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 15 13:14:22 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:12:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <19980415201146.24034.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.211.22.133] From: "Tom Cloud" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Atari BW XY Power followup question! Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:11:44 PDT Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Tom Cloud" Hi all, This is my first posting to the mail list, but since I know the inside of my Battlezones pretty well, I thought I'd throw something out here as well. In the message I'm replying to, it is mentioned that BZ only uses/has 4 fuse taps off of the power supply. Will, I have 2 BZ's and one has 4 taps and one has 5 of them. The one with 5 uses them all. I thought this was somewhat strange, but I didn't investigate why it was that way. I believe that the BZ with 5 is an older cab than the one that is using 4 lines. I'm making an assumption here that one could have either types of power supplies in their BZ's. Just a thought. I enjoy this maillist, lots of good information here without the flames! Regards, Tom Cloud >From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 15 12:24:42 1998 >Received: by goonsquad.spies.com > via sendmail with stdio > id > for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:16:50 -0700 (PDT) > (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) >Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:15:43 -0400 (EDT) >From: Mitchell Rohde >To: vectorlist@spies.com >cc: TomW >Subject: Atari BW XY Power followup question! >In-Reply-To: >Message-ID: >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com >CC: Mitchell Rohde > > > Following up on this, the BW transformer assembly is NOT the same for all > BW XY Atari games. The Battlezone and Asteroids assembly, though they >look alike, are not. The asteroids uses all 5 fuses on the block, and >battlezone uses 4. More significantly, the taps (if I remember correctly) >are like 30-0-30 on one and 40-0-40 on the other. > > Last time I checked the tolerances in the G-05 monitor spec basically >indicated that the asteroids assembly pushes the +-X% limits of the G05. > > Of course, you guys have more experience than I in swapping things in and >out. Comments? > > Mitch > >On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, TomW wrote: > >> Gang, >> >> Have a question for you: >> >> I am restoring a starwars that was missing the power transformer assembly >> from the bottom of the cab. The game has an ampliphone monitor and I have a >> wintron flyback in stock to repair it so I would rather keep the >> ampliphone.... >> >> So now here's the question. The original transformer drove the ampliphone >> monitor at 50VCT, I have several transformers from asteroids etc, but they >> put out 65VCT for the monitor. Now as I look at the monitor schematics, the >> HV section has its own regulators to drop it down to (If I remember right) >> +24,-24VDC so, I should be ok their. But, the deflection circuit draws from >> the unregulated +25,-25 VDC sections of the rectified 50VCT seconday's, >> which would now be around 32VDC with the asteroids supply. This variance is >> way out of spec for the ampliphone, which I think was %5 on the + going >> side, and %10 on the neg., and I'm afraid I'd fry the deflection circuit in >> the ampliphone... Any recommended modification to the deflection board ??? >> >> Also this would lead me to believe that putting a non-ampliphone monitor in >> a SW would result in the monitor being under-driven, which I guess is >> compensated by turning up the XY gain on the game board, but as your AC >> line fluctuates your monitor could waver. But since no-one has ever >> mentioned it, maybe the electrohomes have a better tolerance for this type >> of thing. >> >> Any suggestions...... >> >> Thanks >> TomW >> >> >> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 15 15:21:10 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:19:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Atari BW XY Power followup question! Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:18:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Don't know for sure what the difference is. But I do know that I have > run a > BZ boardset off of an Asteroids power supply. > You know... In that big pile of Atari crap I got a couple years back I have a sheet with every permutation of "transformer assemblies" on it with characteristics and Atari part numbers. I'll scan it if I can find it. I typed it in with Excel on my notebook PC during a long flight out of boredom once, I'll look for that too. -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 15 15:42:39 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:41:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <353537D8.1A9B@links.magenta.com> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:42:32 -0600 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Atari BW XY Power followup question! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Clay Cowgill wrote: > > > Don't know for sure what the difference is. But I do know that I have > > run a > > BZ boardset off of an Asteroids power supply. > > > You know... > > In that big pile of Atari crap I got a couple years back I have a sheet > with every permutation of "transformer assemblies" on it with > characteristics and Atari part numbers. I'll scan it if I can find it. > I typed it in with Excel on my notebook PC during a long flight out of > boredom once, I'll look for that too. > Oooohhhh. :-0 That is worthy of being archived, I believe. I like compact/dense docs like that! :-) -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 15 20:35:20 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:32:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01BD68BE.6D50F8E0.gemaser@radiks.net> From: Gregory Maser To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Newbie laundry list of Tempest Questions Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:32:42 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Gregory Maser Hi Everyone, My name is Greg and I just acquired an Upright Tempest Machine. I have a few questions regarding my baby if anyone has a sec.. 1). The wife and I were playing it tonite and it blinked out on us for a second then went back to attract mode with all the high scores wiped out but my top three. Today was the first time that it has done that while I have had it and and it did it again a little later. 2.) I had the back off and was looking around while I had it on and the white box on the back of the monitor chassis that has the focus and screen knobs sounded like it was crackling. Is this normal? 3.) And finally, I noticed that she puts out a lot of heat through the handle holes on the back and a little through the grill below the marquee. I was thinking of putting some venting on the back piece of particle board and installing some fans to draw some air through. Has anyone else done that? I really love my new toy and have found the list to be really interesting and helpful, I just wish I knew a little nore about electronics to understand it all. GregM. gemaser@radiks.net From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 15 21:35:40 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:34:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D03E3F5C4@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (Comforce/RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Cc: Gregory Maser Subject: RE: Newbie laundry list of Tempest Questions Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:33:05 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (Comforce/RhoTech)" > 1). The wife and I were playing it tonite and it blinked out on us for a > second then went back to attract mode with all the high scores wiped out > but my top three. Today was the first time that it has done that while I > have had it and and it did it again a little later. Not normal. Sounds like your developing a thermal problem resulting in a watchdog time-out and reset. > 2.) I had the back off and was looking around while I had it on and the > white box on the back of the monitor chassis that has the focus and screen > > knobs sounded like it was crackling. Is this normal? Nope. Are you up to tackling a High Voltage cage problem? I had this happen and not long later the high voltage transformer toasted. The crackle is probably the HV arcing to ground. > 3.) And finally, I noticed that she puts out a lot of heat through the > handle holes on the back and a little through the grill below the marquee. > > I was thinking of putting some venting on the back piece of particle > board > and installing some fans to draw some air through. Has anyone else done > that? Has been done. Or if it is in a safe place (with no curious small animals) just leave the back door off. If the machine is an inch or two from a wall you don't have to worry about anything falling into the back and it won't get much cooler than it would this way. > I really love my new toy and have found the list to be really interesting > and helpful, I just wish I knew a little nore about electronics to > understand it all. If you don't understand the stuff that well then it is time to find someone nearby that does. Because it sounds like your monitor might be on the way out. Better to find the repair man now then once it has died. David From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 16 10:18:08 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:32:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01BD68BE.6D50F8E0.gemaser@radiks.net> From: Gregory Maser To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Newbie laundry list of Tempest Questions Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:32:42 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Gregory Maser Hi Everyone, My name is Greg and I just acquired an Upright Tempest Machine. I have a few questions regarding my baby if anyone has a sec.. 1). The wife and I were playing it tonite and it blinked out on us for a second then went back to attract mode with all the high scores wiped out but my top three. Today was the first time that it has done that while I have had it and and it did it again a little later. 2.) I had the back off and was looking around while I had it on and the white box on the back of the monitor chassis that has the focus and screen knobs sounded like it was crackling. Is this normal? 3.) And finally, I noticed that she puts out a lot of heat through the handle holes on the back and a little through the grill below the marquee. I was thinking of putting some venting on the back piece of particle board and installing some fans to draw some air through. Has anyone else done that? I really love my new toy and have found the list to be really interesting and helpful, I just wish I knew a little nore about electronics to understand it all. GregM. gemaser@radiks.net From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 20 10:38:00 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:36:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Power supply info... Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:35:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Gave up on trying to move this stuff off the laptop, just going to type it in by hand... ;-) This is originally off some 17" fan-fold printout from Atari. To quote: Atari Power Supply: The following power supplies are UL Recognizer for use in video games. PS Assembly Name Transformer Terminated Wiring Use for Transformer Diagram A037672-xx Power Supply 142003-001 A035888-01 037669-01 Raster, 142003-002 A035888-01 B/W XY A037672-xx Shielded 142003-003 A035888-03 037669-01 Raster, Power Supply 142003-004 A035888-04 B/W XY A037396-xx Color XY 142005-001 A037395-01 037394-01 Color X/Y A037875-xx Shielded 142005-002 A037395-02 037394-01 Color X/Y Color XY xx= 01 Domestic (Voltage Block- 120) 02 International (Voltage Blocks- 100, 220, 240) 03 European (Voltage Blocks- 220,240) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 20 17:51:48 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:51:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Something to look at... Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:50:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Has there been any traffic on Vectorlist the last two or three days? (Or is good old Diamond's mail fubar again... Grrrrr...) Anyway, made a new webpage that might be fun to see for any of you Atari-fans... http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/Atari_p.html -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 20 18:38:41 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:38:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <353BF87C.25D4@links.magenta.com> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:38:04 -0600 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Something to look at... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Has there been any traffic on Vectorlist the last two or three days? > (Or is good old Diamond's mail fubar again... Grrrrr...) > > Anyway, made a new webpage that might be fun to see for any of you > Atari-fans... > > http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/Atari_p.html Very nice, Im very jealous! :-) I had a similar experience at Williams in Chicago (minus the TV cameras). Double :-) jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 20 18:56:48 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:56:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:55:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Re: Something to look at... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Anyway, made a new webpage that might be fun to see for any of you > Atari-fans... > http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/Atari_p.html The hair's not THAT bad. At least it isn't feathered . . . Incidently -- I got that $250 scope. Works well as a vector display, and seems to be fine for basic game repair. The "componant tester" seems to basicly be X-Y mode with an auto-controled axis. Not to usefull. But a nice little scope. -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 20 20:36:26 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:36:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199804210334.UAA23236@kingdom.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:35:45 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Something to look at... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 05:50 PM 4/20/98 -0700, Clay scribbled: >Has there been any traffic on Vectorlist the last two or three days? >(Or is good old Diamond's mail fubar again... Grrrrr...) > >Anyway, made a new webpage that might be fun to see for any of you >Atari-fans... > >http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/ Atari_p.html > Very amuzing story. Hmmm. Maybe you could call the TV station that aired the spot and see if they have the show archived? -Anders. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 20 21:15:38 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:15:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <353C1E44.F662C824@voicenet.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 00:19:16 -0400 From: Al Warner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Something to look at... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Al Warner Really Neat Clay! I remember saving every dime to buy my Atari 800! Always dreamed of making the trip to see it. I drove by Atari about 10 years ago, I was less than impressed from the outside. Nice to see a refreshing new page like this. And you're right, there has been Zero traffic for a while. -Al- Clay Cowgill wrote: > Has there been any traffic on Vectorlist the last two or three days? > (Or is good old Diamond's mail fubar again... Grrrrr...) > > Anyway, made a new webpage that might be fun to see for any of you > Atari-fans... > > http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/Atari_p.html > > -Clay > > Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager > ------------------------------------------------- > /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. > \/ Communications Division -- ==================================================================== -= Al Warner awarner@voicenet.com =- -= Owner of "Magic Sword", "AmeriDarts", "Final Fight", "Simpsons" =- -= now a completely working "Battlezone" arcade video games. =- -= Dig Emulation, OS/2, Hal Roach Films, and other strange stuff. =- -= See the Magic Sword Project at: =- -= http://www.voicenet.com/~awarner/magswrd =- ==================================================================== From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 21 08:00:48 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:00:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "TomW" To: Cc: "Clay Cowgill" Subject: Re: Power supply info... Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:31:26 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "TomW" > > Atari Power Supply: > > The following power supplies are UL Recognizer for use in video games. Snipped.... Gang, Just wanted to thank you all for the transformer info (Clay esp..) Now I can locate the color XY supply in my pile since I know what #'s I'm looking for now... Thanks all TomW From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 21 08:29:13 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:29:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <19980421152800.16086.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.211.22.54] From: "Tom Cloud" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Something to look at... Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:27:59 PDT Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Tom Cloud" Hi Clay, Nice job! It's fun to read a new game related page. Cool pic's! TTYL Tom Cloud >From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon Apr 20 17:56:26 1998 >Received: by goonsquad.spies.com > via sendmail with stdio > id > for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:51:31 -0700 (PDT) > (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) >Message-ID: >From: Clay Cowgill >To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" >Subject: Something to look at... >Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:50:12 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) >Content-Type: text/plain >Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com >CC: Clay Cowgill > >Has there been any traffic on Vectorlist the last two or three days? >(Or is good old Diamond's mail fubar again... Grrrrr...) > >Anyway, made a new webpage that might be fun to see for any of you >Atari-fans... > >http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/Atari_p.html > >-Clay > >Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager >------------------------------------------------- >/\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. >\/ Communications Division > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 21 08:31:46 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:31:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Something to look at... Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:30:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Very amuzing story. Hmmm. Maybe you could call the TV station that > aired the > spot and see if they have the show archived? > -Anders. > That thought had occurred to me. ;-) Problem is I don't know *exactly* when it was. Wonder if my parents have any idea... Hmmmm. -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 21 08:45:50 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:45:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: ESB header picture... Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:44:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Lest I forget... I actually managed to get a pretty decent picture of my ESB marquee the other day. I perspective-corrected it with Photoshop (hard to get a straight-on shot when it's mounted to the top of the game ;-) and did a little unsharp-mask to it and it looks pretty good. If anyone would like to swipe the JPG, you can get it from my ESB webpage. http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/ESB.html I have a much bigger version (600dpi) that's probably a couple thousand pixels wide if anyone needs for anything. Send me e-mail if you'd like it. I have the slightly retouched scan (just perspective correction) and one that's been filtered a bit (looks sharper). -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 21 12:08:33 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:08:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:06:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist@spies.com cc: Clay Cowgill , TomW Subject: Re: Power supply info... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mitchell Rohde Now, I was thinking maybe we could all scrap together some specs/differences in them. It would be nice to know what voltages at what currents each supply does (ok, it sounds trivial, but...) Mitch On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, TomW wrote: > > > > > > Atari Power Supply: > > > > The following power supplies are UL Recognizer for use in video games. > > Snipped.... > > Gang, > Just wanted to thank you all for the transformer info (Clay esp..) Now I > can locate the color XY supply in my pile since I know what #'s I'm looking > for now... > > Thanks all > > TomW > > > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 21 12:57:02 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:56:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980421125319.007ac190@u1.netgate.net> X-Sender: grigsby@u1.netgate.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:53:19 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: The Grigsbeast Subject: Entropy sale! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: The Grigsbeast I have way too many games and parts to reasonably take care of. Therefore I am selling several of them. Some work, most don't. All worked at one time when I owned them. I want to give my friends and acquaintances first crack, and since most are on this list, I am posting here before I go to r.g.v.a.m. I am in the south SF Bay Area. I don't want to ship unless I get a ridiculously high offer. Games are uprights unless noted. *Joust -- Works great, very little burn, completely gone through (edge connectors redone, harness hacks fixed, etc.) In respectable but not excellent condition (one big gouge on control panel but no huge cig burns.) *Warrior -- Worked for a long time -- first Warrior on VAPS. Now blows monitor breakers. No damage to internal cardboard: outside is a bit grungy. Controls all work. *Star Castle -- Blows breakers. Nice shape except for a couple key gouges on the monitor plex. If you had a grinding/buffing wheel you could probably get them out but I don't. *Battlezone -- Vectors tweaked out and died: probably a mathbox issue. Controls very good: they actually spring back (!). Sides are very nice but a couple gouges short of mint. *Black Widow/Gravitar -- Monitor blew, probably the HV. This is the second-best cabinet I have, next to the Tempest which is not for sale. Side art is as close to mint as you'll find outside a shipping box. Both control panels (BW and Gravitar) are also nearly pristine. Currently a Black Widow but the sides still have Gravitar art (stickers were not put on). *Qix Cocktail -- Not sure what happened here -- one day a black screen. This is a large cocktail with adjustable legs which you can raise to bar-level or lower to munchkin level. Nice shape -- no peeling on the monitor glass -- but I do have to clean the crap off of it. Parts: *25" standard resolution monitor. No burn, used only as tester, worked great when I last plugged it in. *27" SVGA monitor. Ditto above condition. Tested up to 800x600, claimed up to 1024x68. About $7-800 new from Happ last I checked. Hook this up to your Voodoo Graphics and have the baddest-ass gaming PC on your block. *Cinematronics monitor. Light Starhawk burn. Not tested, no obvious burnt or missing parts, but given it's age and etc. I would be very surprised if it worked. *Box of 6 untested Karate Champ boards. Send offers to grigsby@netgate.net. Thanks. // grigs From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 21 18:27:38 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:27:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:26:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Anderson X-Sender: mayday19@u2.farm.idt.net To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Amplifone/wintron In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jeff Anderson ok, so the red HV transformer in my ESB cockpit finally took a dive after working 10 hours a day everyday for the past 6 months! I already have a Wintron, and was just about to mount it to my HV board (already drilled the holes and the soldering iron was hot), when I noticed that Q3 was a BU407. I recall hearing many a person say DONT USE A BU407! So should I be worried about frying a new $190 wintron? Is there a reason why the missing diode would cause problems (in other words, is the wintron designed any different and wil it just NOT work without it?) When the Red HVT went bad, it cracked and spit some metal out of the side, but nothing burned up and no fuses were blown so I guess it just opened up and went quietly.. I guess if I could get a BU406D I'd rather have that and not chance anything, so does anybody know a source or have any? I recall they are very hard to come by.. thanks for any input! Jeff BTW: this must come up every month, but what is the progress on the Zanan HVT? is it gonna be in that same metal case like a Wintron? I could use a few more, but not for $190! From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 21 18:51:31 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:51:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D03E3F5D8@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (Comforce/RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Cc: Jeff Anderson Subject: RE: Amplifone/wintron Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:50:24 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (Comforce/RhoTech)" > I guess if I could get a BU406D I'd rather have that and not chance > anything, so does anybody know a source or have any? I recall they are > very hard to come by.. > Not any more. Turns out they were used in some model of Mac also. Computer Component Source at 1-800-356-1227 sells the BU406D. They cost under $2 a piece. There is a discount if you buy 12 of them. David From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue Apr 21 19:21:27 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:21:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <353D53CF.E34DBD19@techsource.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:20:00 -0400 From: Omar Vega X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Amplifone/wintron References: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D03E3F5D8@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Omar Vega An electronics surplus store here in Orlando sells them for the same price (used of course) so that's pretty good. David Shoemaker (Comforce/RhoTech) wrote: > > I guess if I could get a BU406D I'd rather have that and not chance > > anything, so does anybody know a source or have any? I recall they are > > very hard to come by.. > > > Not any more. Turns out they were used in some model of Mac also. > > Computer Component Source at 1-800-356-1227 sells the BU406D. They cost > under $2 a piece. There is a discount if you buy 12 of them. > > David From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 22 11:19:45 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:18:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Need to scavenge a 68000 fast Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:20:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day folks, Can someone point me to that list of arcade games on the WWW which tells what processor is used? It may be part of some MAME resource site. I need to find a 68000 fast, but I don't know off hand which of my dead boards might have one. I sure don't want to strip the 68000 off my Cosmic Chasm! Steven S Ozdemir sso@plpt.com (my company renamed itself in Feb) sso@dsc.com (good for a few more months) ozdemir@xenon.stanford.edu (permanent...weekly) From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 22 11:27:35 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:27:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:27:24 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Need to scavenge a 68000 fast Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) not directly related, but does anyone have use for Applied Microsystems 68k ICE's? There are a couple over at a surplus place for $200, but I already have a couple. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 22 11:31:43 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:31:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Need to scavenge a 68000 fast Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:30:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > I need to find a 68000 fast, but I don't know off hand which of my > dead > boards might have one. I sure don't want to strip the 68000 off my > Cosmic Chasm! > How fast does it need to be? Sources: Amiga 1000,2000,500; Mac Plus; Atari ST (all up to about 8MHz) Sega Genesis (early), Some Sega System 16 boards, Combatribes (yeah!), a lot of later Taito stuff (Sky Shark, Twin Cobra, etc.), Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Food Fight (no!), a lot of Technos stuff (Double Dragon 3, Ninja Gaiden, etc.) -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 22 11:39:07 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:38:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Need to scavenge a 68000 fast Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:40:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day folks, Don't know how fast it needs to be off hand. I'll just pull one from a Quantum....oops, make that it's going into a Quantum. 8^) 8^) 8^) Steven S Ozdemir sso@plpt.com (my company renamed itself in Feb) sso@dsc.com (good for a few more months) ozdemir@xenon.stanford.edu (permanent...weekly) > ---------- > From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:ClayC@diamondmm.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 1998 11:30 AM > To: 'vectorlist@spies.com' > Cc: Clay Cowgill > Subject: RE: Need to scavenge a 68000 fast > > > I need to find a 68000 fast, but I don't know off hand which of my > > dead > > boards might have one. I sure don't want to strip the 68000 off my > > Cosmic Chasm! > > > How fast does it need to be? > > Sources: Amiga 1000,2000,500; Mac Plus; Atari ST (all up to about > 8MHz) > > Sega Genesis (early), Some Sega System 16 boards, Combatribes (yeah!), > a > lot of later Taito stuff (Sky Shark, Twin Cobra, etc.), Teenage Mutant > Ninja Turtles, Food Fight (no!), a lot of Technos stuff (Double Dragon > 3, Ninja Gaiden, etc.) > > -Clay > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 22 12:37:43 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:37:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:36:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: Need to scavenge a 68000 fast To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-id: <01IW6B5D15UQ001VLL@Eisner.DECUS.Org> Organization: Digital Equipment Computer Users Society X-VMS-To: IN%"vectorlist@spies.com" X-VMS-Cc: BROWN_DU MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Duncan Brown Steve, > I need to find a 68000 fast, but I don't know off hand which of my dead > boards might have one. I sure don't want to strip the 68000 off my > Cosmic Chasm! How hard could this be? Flip through your boards until you find one with the larget DIP IC ever in the history of man. You've found your 68000... (For verification purposes, make sure the letters "MC68000" appear on it...) Duncan From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 22 13:10:57 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:10:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Need to scavenge a 68000 fast Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:10:48 GMT Message-ID: <35404e00.424735986@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) The sound board in Spy Hunter uses a 68k. The user manual is pretty funny. It's brags about how state of art the = game is since it uses "the powerful Z-80 processor!" and never mentions the fact = that a 68k was given the lowly task of playing samples from a ROM into a DAC. At least Cinematronics had the right idea, 68k for game code, Z-80 for = sounds, duh. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 22 14:54:34 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:54:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:54:20 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: 68k ICE's are gone.. Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) I ran over at lunch and picked up the two that they had, and received mail from two people that could use them.. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 22 16:14:30 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:14:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: processor info... Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:13:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill This might have already gone by (I wasn't paying real close attention), but I stumbled across this earlier today... http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/archive/cards.html -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 22 16:42:46 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:42:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: processor info... Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 23:42:34 GMT Message-ID: <35417f97.437433236@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:13:03 -0700, Clay Cowgill = wrote: >This might have already gone by (I wasn't paying real close attention), >but I stumbled across this earlier today... > >http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/archive/cards.html Very cool page! Does anyone have any information on the old Hatachi 6303's? (They were = 680x clones but much easier to program -- until Motorola sued ;^( This caused Hatachi to move everything to the Z-80 platform which I'm sure really = help Motorola in the end. Have I mentioned yet that Motorola has got to be = the most nearsighted company on earth?) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 22 16:52:51 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:52:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: processor info... Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:51:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Does anyone have any information on the old Hatachi 6303's? (They > were 680x > clones but much easier to program -- until Motorola sued ;^( > I think I have a databook from Hitachi with at least the 6309 in it... Not sure about the 6303 (can't say I've seen one that I recall). I guess the 6309 was a popular performance booster for the Radio Shack Color Computer crowd... > Have I mentioned yet that Motorola has got to be the most nearsighted > company on earth?) > Ahhh, but at least they can make a fast processor that doesn't pull more watts than a coffee maker. ;-) You're not falling for the new ad campaign?!?!! (Birds, or wings, or flying or something...) -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 22 17:05:51 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:05:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:05:44 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: processor info... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) I think these are the same ones that I have on spies. ..still looking for a Signetics 2650 data book, btw From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 22 17:08:21 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:08:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:08:16 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: processor info... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) I have a hitachi data book (which was where the 6800 and 6809 data came from) need it scanned in? From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 22 17:37:24 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:37:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: processor info... Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:37:16 GMT Message-ID: <35448c60.440705909@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:08:16 -0700 (PDT), aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) = wrote: >I have a hitachi data book (which was where the 6800=20 >and 6809 data came from) need it scanned in? Actually I was looking for programming information on the 6303, so if = that's in there, that would be great! I remember it being programmed as a 27256. = They supplied a socket that simply remapped the lines to those used by a 27256= so that all you needed was a EPROM programmer to program the part. Way = cool, no specialty hardware. Of course Motorola sued claiming this was there = patented idea. So, do any Motorola parts do this? Patent law at its best. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed Apr 22 18:04:46 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:04:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: processor info... Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 01:04:39 GMT Message-ID: <35458d3e.440928666@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:51:26 -0700, Clay Cowgill = wrote: >> Does anyone have any information on the old Hatachi 6303's? (They >> were 680x >> clones but much easier to program -- until Motorola sued ;^( =20 >>=20 >I think I have a databook from Hitachi with at least the 6309 in it... >Not sure about the 6303 (can't say I've seen one that I recall). I >guess the 6309 was a popular performance booster for the Radio Shack >Color Computer crowd... > >> Have I mentioned yet that Motorola has got to be the most nearsighted >> company on earth?) >>=20 >Ahhh, but at least they can make a fast processor that doesn't pull more >watts than a coffee maker. ;-) You're not falling for the new ad >campaign?!?!! (Birds, or wings, or flying or something...) They're products are great, they just have no way of selling them. These are some stories I've heard, or read, over the years. Maybe = they're urban legends, but I know at least a couple to be true: #1 IMSI (Did I spell that right? A seem to remember an 'A'.) of IMSI = 8080, first "ownable" computer originally wanted to use the 6800 because of = it's nicer orthogonal instruction set but could not find any interest at Motorola = who claimed personal computers would never sell... So they chose the 8080. = CPM was then written for the 8080. The 8080 does so well Zilog branches off with= the Z-80 increasing CPM's popularity (and 8080 sales indirectly). MS-DOS is = based on CPM. Nobody buys Motorola processors and Motorola, to this day [I'm = sure] doesn't know what they did wrong. #2 IBM goes to Motorola to use the 68k processor in their Personal = Computer. Motorola is not quite done with some of it's peripheral parts (DMA / Math co-processor, etc.) and IBM can't get them interested. Motorola claims = personal computers are just a fad and will never sell anyways. They were really = only interested in the high end market. Intel on the other hand hacks their = 8080 devices (DMA, etc -- if you notice these parts worked with both the 8080 = and 8088 with only a slight change in the interrupt workings. They only = worked on a 64k boundary! Shlocks!). IBM buys MS-DOS (after 1st trying to buy CPM = but that's a different story). The PC is born and nobody buys Motorola = processors. #3 The company I currently work for wanted to use a Motorola LCD display = in a handheld product (which I can't talk about). Their first purchase would = be 100k units. They're production run would be on the order of 1 to 2 million = per year. I spent 1 month trying to get somebody interested enough to send me a = data book on the display. The company had so much trouble getting any kind of = response from the Motorola sales dept, that when Sharp got wind of us, their offer= and support was so nice, that now we're going with Sharp parts, using = Motorola as a possible 2nd source. Motorola probably doesn't even no they lost that = sale. (Motorola: What sale?) #4 The last company I worked for wanted to put 68k processor in a medical respirator. We designed the whole board and had a working proto-type = when we got a letter from Motorola that Motorola would not sell any parts to a = company that uses them for life support. We had to start over with an Intel = processor. *THEN* Motorola changed there mind (and then again two more times!). = *THEN* the Intel reps came out and stuffed co-processors in the pockets of all who = was involved in the decision making process (not me) and got them to change = anyways. Meanwhile Motorola informs us they were closing down their South = California office and that all communications would have to be done with reps in = Texas. During which time Intel has expanded its service by sending a rep by once= a week to take us out to lunch, see how things were going etc. #5 Motorola is a looser company with great products and no ability to = sell them. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 23 13:43:09 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:42:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Cinematronics/Sega universal sound board... Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:41:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill I had a revelation yesterday... There's an off-the-shelf part that would fit 99% of our requirements for making a universal sound board for Cinematronics and Sega G80 multigames. It's already been used on tons of arcade game boards-- the OKI 6295. Very neat little gizmo. It's an ADPCM playback device that supports up to 127 "phrases" stored in an external ROM. 4 bit ADPCM with rates up to 32KHz. Just over 16 seconds of playback at that speed from an external 27C020. It's about what we're "wishing" for-- four channels, low parts count (ROM + 6295 + little micro to bridge interfaces), compression, automatic playback... So here's the cool part. You write a two 8 bit words to the device. This tells it what "phrase" to play, on what channel, and how loud (16 steps). You can have up to 127 phrases per ROM, and can bank-select ROMs for more. (All sounds played simultaneously would have to be in the same bank.) The first 0x3ff bytes of the ROM are a phrase table (8 bytes per phrase). If you tell the chip to play "Phrase 3" it goes to address 0x010 and grabs 8 bytes-- the first three are the start address of the sound, the next three are the ending address, the other two bytes do something I don't recall off the top of my head. Then you're done. The chip does the rest-- fetches samples, decodes, plays the sound. For multivoice polyphony you just send it more "Phrase" addresses assigned to different channels. If you wanted more than 4 voices, just use 2 of 'em. We'd just put a little uController (like a 2051 or Z8 or Pic or whatever) in front of the 6295 to receive the sound commands from the game hardware and have it do the decode to trigger playback of the samples. Pretty clean solution. Some trap code with the emulators should be able to give us an un-biased assessment of how many simultaneous sounds are active at any given time. Long-term repeating sounds are possible (but not optimal for the technique), but the rest should be a walk-in-the-park. Comments? -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 23 14:30:53 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:30:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Cinematronics/Sega universal sound board... Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:31:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day Clay, At first glance this does seem to be an elegant solution to the simpler sounds. I question how well it would handle continuous shifting background sounds like in Star Castle. But hey, if the solution even handles 2/3's of Cinematronics sounds that alot closer than we are now to a universal sound board! Steven S Ozdemir sso@plpt.com (my company renamed itself in Feb) sso@dsc.com (good for a few more months) ozdemir@xenon.stanford.edu (permanent...weekly) > ---------- > From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:ClayC@diamondmm.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 1998 1:41 PM > To: 'vectorlist@spies.com' > Cc: Clay Cowgill > Subject: Cinematronics/Sega universal sound board... > > I had a revelation yesterday... > > There's an off-the-shelf part that would fit 99% of our requirements > for > making a universal sound board for Cinematronics and Sega G80 > multigames. > > It's already been used on tons of arcade game boards-- the OKI 6295. > > Very neat little gizmo. It's an ADPCM playback device that supports > up > to 127 "phrases" stored in an external ROM. 4 bit ADPCM with rates up > to 32KHz. Just over 16 seconds of playback at that speed from an > external 27C020. It's about what we're "wishing" for-- four channels, > low parts count (ROM + 6295 + little micro to bridge interfaces), > compression, automatic playback... > > So here's the cool part. You write a two 8 bit words to the device. > This tells it what "phrase" to play, on what channel, and how loud (16 > steps). You can have up to 127 phrases per ROM, and can bank-select > ROMs for more. (All sounds played simultaneously would have to be in > the same bank.) > > The first 0x3ff bytes of the ROM are a phrase table (8 bytes per > phrase). If you tell the chip to play "Phrase 3" it goes to address > 0x010 and grabs 8 bytes-- the first three are the start address of the > sound, the next three are the ending address, the other two bytes do > something I don't recall off the top of my head. Then you're done. > The > chip does the rest-- fetches samples, decodes, plays the sound. > > For multivoice polyphony you just send it more "Phrase" addresses > assigned to different channels. > > If you wanted more than 4 voices, just use 2 of 'em. > > We'd just put a little uController (like a 2051 or Z8 or Pic or > whatever) in front of the 6295 to receive the sound commands from the > game hardware and have it do the decode to trigger playback of the > samples. Pretty clean solution. > > Some trap code with the emulators should be able to give us an > un-biased > assessment of how many simultaneous sounds are active at any given > time. > Long-term repeating sounds are possible (but not optimal for the > technique), but the rest should be a walk-in-the-park. > > Comments? > > -Clay > > Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager > ------------------------------------------------- > /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. > \/ Communications Division > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 23 14:42:01 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:41:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Cinematronics/Sega universal sound board... Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:40:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > At first glance this does seem to be an elegant solution to the > simpler > sounds. I question how well it would handle continuous shifting > background sounds like in Star Castle. But hey, if the solution even > handles 2/3's of Cinematronics sounds that alot closer than we are now > to a universal sound board! > Yeah, any of those long filter/frequency sweep sounds are hard to do with samples. You could do it with a low-rate sample (maybe switch the 6295 to 8KHz mode with an I/O line), but you'd probably get pops on the loop point since you have to tell the 6295 to "play" the sample over and over at the right rate. Still though, I agree-- if I could have the vast majority of sounds for a multigame with a single ~$30 card I'd probably be willing to overlook any little "inaccuracies". ;-) I might try to get a quote on the 6295... -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 23 14:51:18 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:51:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Cinematronics/Sega universal sound board... Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:52:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day Clay (and folks) What about a hybrid solution that could use one of those newer chips (help me here, Joe) that cans simulate simple analog circuits? I can't believe the Cinematronics circuits for background noises were that complicated. Maybe even have a dual speaker approach to cheaply solve "mixing problems" between the two systems for generating sounds? Steven S Ozdemir sso@plpt.com (my company renamed itself in Feb) sso@dsc.com (good for a few more months) ozdemir@xenon.stanford.edu (permanent...weekly) > ---------- > From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:ClayC@diamondmm.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 1998 2:40 PM > To: 'vectorlist@spies.com' > Cc: Clay Cowgill > Subject: RE: Cinematronics/Sega universal sound board... > > > > At first glance this does seem to be an elegant solution to the > > simpler > > sounds. I question how well it would handle continuous shifting > > background sounds like in Star Castle. But hey, if the solution > even > > handles 2/3's of Cinematronics sounds that alot closer than we are > now > > to a universal sound board! > > > Yeah, any of those long filter/frequency sweep sounds are hard to do > with samples. You could do it with a low-rate sample (maybe switch > the > 6295 to 8KHz mode with an I/O line), but you'd probably get pops on > the > loop point since you have to tell the 6295 to "play" the sample over > and > over at the right rate. > > Still though, I agree-- if I could have the vast majority of sounds > for > a multigame with a single ~$30 card I'd probably be willing to > overlook > any little "inaccuracies". ;-) I might try to get a quote on the > 6295... > > -Clay > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 23 14:54:07 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:54:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Cinematronics/Sega universal sound board... Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:53:59 GMT Message-ID: <354db6e2.517135525@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:41:22 -0700, Clay Cowgill = wrote: >I had a revelation yesterday... > >There's an off-the-shelf part that would fit 99% of our requirements for >making a universal sound board for Cinematronics and Sega G80 >multigames. > >It's already been used on tons of arcade game boards-- the OKI 6295. > >Very neat little gizmo. It's an ADPCM playback device that supports up >to 127 "phrases" stored in an external ROM. 4 bit ADPCM with rates up >to 32KHz. Just over 16 seconds of playback at that speed from an >external 27C020. It's about what we're "wishing" for-- four channels, >low parts count (ROM + 6295 + little micro to bridge interfaces), >compression, automatic playback... > >So here's the cool part. You write a two 8 bit words to the device. >This tells it what "phrase" to play, on what channel, and how loud (16 >steps). You can have up to 127 phrases per ROM, and can bank-select >ROMs for more. (All sounds played simultaneously would have to be in >the same bank.) > >The first 0x3ff bytes of the ROM are a phrase table (8 bytes per >phrase). If you tell the chip to play "Phrase 3" it goes to address >0x010 and grabs 8 bytes-- the first three are the start address of the >sound, the next three are the ending address, the other two bytes do >something I don't recall off the top of my head. Looping maybe? >Then you're done. The >chip does the rest-- fetches samples, decodes, plays the sound. > >For multivoice polyphony you just send it more "Phrase" addresses >assigned to different channels. > >If you wanted more than 4 voices, just use 2 of 'em. =20 > >We'd just put a little uController (like a 2051 or Z8 or Pic or >whatever) in front of the 6295 to receive the sound commands from the >game hardware and have it do the decode to trigger playback of the >samples. Pretty clean solution. > >Some trap code with the emulators should be able to give us an un-biased >assessment of how many simultaneous sounds are active at any given time. >Long-term repeating sounds are possible (but not optimal for the >technique), but the rest should be a walk-in-the-park. Sounds nice, most everything in one package! ADPCM also works well with = music and sound effects (as opposed to some of the talking chips specialized = for voice that use LPC, GSM, etc). They only thing that I would see as a pain would be for sounds that ramp = up/down in frequency. Can the different channels have there sample rates = individually controlled? Maybe that's one of the control words? Something like this = will be needed to emulated some of the frequency changes needed in things like = the background throb of Star Castle. Many sounds are just square waves that could possibly be controlled = directly be the processor. But it would be nicer to have them play through the OKI = chip for volume control. Once again if music will need to be played (4096 tones = for Boxing Bugs) we'll need to be able to control the playback sample rate. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 23 15:04:01 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:03:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Cinematronics/Sega universal sound board... Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 22:03:49 GMT Message-ID: <354eba20.517966330@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 14:52:31 -0700, "Ozdemir, Steve" = wrote: >G'day Clay (and folks) > >What about a hybrid solution that could use one of those newer chips >(help me here, Joe) that cans simulate simple analog circuits? I can't >believe the Cinematronics circuits for background noises were that >complicated. Maybe even have a dual speaker approach to cheaply solve >"mixing problems" between the two systems for generating sounds? I'm wondering what the drive frequency of the OKI parts are (Clay?). Is = it in the khz or mhz range? Could we drive the part from one of the timer out = pins of the micro and control it's samplerate that way? Two or three OKI chips with at least one of them's clock under micro = control might work. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 23 15:18:47 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:18:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Cinematronics/Sega universal sound board... Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:17:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Looping maybe? > I'll have to look. Thought I had it memorized, but obviously not... ;-) > Sounds nice, most everything in one package! ADPCM also works well > with music > and sound effects (as opposed to some of the talking chips specialized > for voice > that use LPC, GSM, etc). > Yep. You can actually clock the thing at whatever rate you want... 16-20KHz might be a good compromise for duration of samples vs. ROM space. I doubt the speakers in most games are good for much beyond that. I guess we can run spectrum analysis on the samples to make sure we're not going to trash any high-frequency stuff. > They only thing that I would see as a pain would be for sounds that > ramp up/down > in frequency. Can the different channels have there sample rates > individually > controlled? Maybe that's one of the control words? Something like > this will be > needed to emulated some of the frequency changes needed in things like > the > background throb of Star Castle. > Sample rates are fixed except for a global external "rate" select. Basically something like high-gear and low-gear. Sample clocks are derived from either a 384Khz oscillator or a 4MHz crystal (I believe). > Many sounds are just square waves that could possibly be controlled > directly be > the processor. But it would be nicer to have them play through the > OKI chip for > volume control. Once again if music will need to be played (4096 > tones for > Boxing Bugs) we'll need to be able to control the playback sample > rate. > Hmmm. Good point. Maybe we should start with a list of all the games that will be supported in the Multigame, and work from there. (If BB is the only game using that square-wave music and it's not in the Multigame is might make sense to blow it off for now?) [Zonn's next message...] I'm wondering what the drive frequency of the OKI parts are (Clay?). Is it in the khz or mhz range? Could we drive the part from one of the timer out pins of the micro and control it's samplerate that way? You don't have to use OKI's clock rates (other than you probably can't exceed the top-end by too much). I noticed that Atari used non-standard rates on Nightmare, and these telephone voice-mail boards I have seem to be using 3.579MHz colorburst crystals instead of 4MHz... I bet we could use software PWM from a PIC with rates around 384KHz without too much trouble. Two or three OKI chips with at least one of them's clock under micro control might work. We need to determine the maximum number of simultaneous sounds actually occur during gameplay. For the Sega stuff, I'm tempted to just use the OKI solution for Space Fury, Eliminator, Zektor, and the speech boards. StarTrek and Tac/Scan both use the USB, so I don't really see the need to replace that unless there's a lot of people w/out Universal Sound Boards that have the Sega Multigame... -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 23 15:38:17 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:38:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: More Atari power supply stuff... Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:36:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Found another note... This one's hand-written... Power Supplies -------------- Transformer Wiring Diagram ----------- -------------- A-034561-02 42-7141C moderate power XY (asteroids) 034633-01 A-034561-03 142000 moderare power XY 034633-01 shielded (cocktail asteroids) A-036099-01 142001 color, isolation, shielded 036097-01 (cocktail missile command) A-035892-01 142003 high power XY, international 035887-01 (battle zone) [sic- Clay] A-036353-01 142004 high power XY, domestic 036352-01 (battle zone) [sic- Clay] Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 23 18:36:03 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:35:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199804240134.VAA32427@vela.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Cinematronics/Sega universal sound board... To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:34:56 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Clay Cowgill" at Apr 23, 98 03:17:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Paul Kahler You knew I'd show up :-) I like the idea of samples. As for the music circuit, it is use by Solar Quest as well as Boxing Bugs. I made some sound board notes once to try to categorize all as many as I could. You can check it out at: http://www.oakland.edu/~phkahler/emu/Sounds.doc Looking back, it's not completely clear but it's a start :-) I suspect if you recorded all values sent to the music circuit, you find only a small number of "notes" are actually played, so samples could be used - I'm guessing here. As for the ramping sounds, I think Star Castle and RipOff use something like an A/D feeding an R/C (to sweep slowly) feeding a VCO. The bottom line is a squarewave output. I'd think a micro could simulate the RC sweep and use a timer to output a squarewave - all the while handling trigger decoding and sending sample commands to this other chip Clay found. Oops, RipOff has 2 VCOs - may be possible? BTW, if anyone wants to add the other games to the word document, feel free to do so and send me a copy :-) I thought I documented all the ones I have schematics for (or most). They're sort of ordered so similar designs are next to each other - Tail Gunner is actually an oddball unless there's one like it that I don't have (but it's still simple and strictly triggers). I'll try to test some boards and get back to the menu system even if I don't have a monitor. BTW Clay, my MAX502s never arrived :-( -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 23 18:56:41 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:56:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 18:56:31 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Cinematronics/Sega universal sound board... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) solar quest has music? the only sounds i remember are the ship shot, torpedo buzz/explosion, thrust, enemy explosion, and the little 'chirp' when you picked up a survivor. was there supposted to be music during the 'get ready' intermission? From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 23 19:19:03 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:18:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980423191522.007ba390@u1.netgate.net> X-Sender: grigsby@u1.netgate.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 19:15:22 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: The Grigsbeast Subject: Re: Cinematronics/Sega universal sound board... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: The Grigsbeast Why wouldn't one simulate all this stuff with a relatively cheap microcontroller instead of trying to torque an OKI sample player? Cheap micros can play back samples just fine, plus they could real-time synthesize all the Cinematronics portamento stuff you would ever want (Star Castle is just two square waves, afaik). Maybe it's just 'cause I'm a programmer. If you want an OKI board, just use mid-period Atari sound boards. You get Yamaha FM for free. // grigs From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu Apr 23 22:23:34 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 22:23:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 23:24:48 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: Entropy sale! Cc: The Grigsbeast Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 12:53 4/21/98, The Grigsbeast wrote: >*Warrior -- Worked for a long time -- first Warrior on VAPS. >Now blows monitor breakers. No damage to internal cardboard: >outside is a bit grungy. Controls all work. I'll give you $500 for this; let me know what kind of offers you get... From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 24 05:32:37 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 05:32:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:31:06 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Cinematronics/Sega universal sound board... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Ozdemir, Steve wrote: > G'day Clay (and folks) > > What about a hybrid solution that could use one of those newer chips > (help me here, Joe) that cans simulate simple analog circuits? I can't > believe the Cinematronics circuits for background noises were that > complicated. Maybe even have a dual speaker approach to cheaply solve > "mixing problems" between the two systems for generating sounds? > I was going to solve that problem by using a DSP to generate the sounds digitally, and then pipe them through a DAC. Doing a VCO in DSP code is pretty straightforward, but damn near impossible to do with sampled sounds (if the control voltage for the VCO is varying, which it is in Sound Boards like Star Castle) IMHO, if you don't have the background sound correct for Star Castle, it's not worth doing the other sounds. On the brighter side, sounds like the "Star Sound" and the "Laser Sound" which are quite complicated to generate "authentically" lend themselves quite well to sampling, so there's advantages to each approach, and a hybrid approach is probably the way to go to emulate all the sounds correctly. I wasn't planning on doing any samples, but I can see where it would make life easier, especially with those two aforementioned sounds... Like I told Steve, I'd be willing to help out whoever's actually doing this, but I only want to assist. My time these days is short, and I've lost my motivation for doing a Cinematronics multigame (I own almost all of the complete games now -- It's amazing how far you can go in collecting in one year!) Joe From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 24 06:05:37 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 06:05:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F7D8AA@wcgmrke101.wilcom.com> From: "Keith, Brendan" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" , "'jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu'" Subject: Cinematronics Monitor - (was universal sound board...) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:04:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Keith, Brendan" Like I told Steve, I'd be willing to help out whoever's actually doing this, but I only want to assist. My time these days is short, and I've lost my motivation for doing a Cinematronics multigame (I own almost all of the complete games now-It's amazing how far you can go in collecting in one year!) Joe How about helping out someone who is trying to resurrect an Armor Attack. I need a monitor, or at least a monitor board. Do you have any spares to sell? Anyone else? Lots of stuff to trade (Not much vector, though) Brendan Keith New Email Address: Brendan.Keith@wilcom.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 24 08:21:55 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:21:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Cinematronics/Sega universal sound board... Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:20:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > I'll try to test some boards and get back to the menu system even if I > don't > have a monitor. BTW Clay, my MAX502s never arrived :-( > I just got mine Wednesday. They're a little slow this time. Give it a few more days... -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 24 08:28:16 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:28:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Cinematronics/Sega universal sound board... Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:26:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Why wouldn't one simulate all this stuff with a relatively cheap > microcontroller instead > of trying to torque an OKI sample player? Cheap micros can play back > samples just > fine, plus they could real-time synthesize all the Cinematronics > portamento > stuff you > would ever want (Star Castle is just two square waves, afaik). > Effort vs. return. ;-) You could make a Micro do it, but some filter/noise/sweep sounds are much easier to record and playback than trying to re-synthesize them from scratch. I like samples 'cause it give you good results *fast* with minimal hardware. One little card could do voice samples for Sega stuff and all the "analog" sounds in something like Space Fury or Zektor.... > Maybe it's just 'cause I'm a programmer. > I was going to throw a DSP at it (for MIPs for ADPCM and multiple streams), but there's all sorts of stuff you get to do that way-- learn the DSP, design the hardware, write the software, etc. Compare to record, edit, stick on ROM... > If you want an OKI board, just use mid-period Atari sound boards. You > get > Yamaha > FM for free. > I was pretty excited by the Mortal Kombat II sound board-- ADSP 2105 with a BUNCH of EPROM already. But, if I can do 90% of it with three chips and little work. ;-) Doing things the easy/fast way and getting it done seems appealing to me since we hacker-types can take months just debating the merits of various solutions without getting much done. *grin* -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri Apr 24 10:17:00 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:16:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980424101331.007c8a20@u1.netgate.net> X-Sender: grigsby@u1.netgate.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 10:13:31 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: The Grigsbeast Subject: RE: Cinematronics/Sega universal sound board... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: The Grigsbeast >> Why wouldn't one simulate all this stuff with a relatively cheap >> microcontroller instead >Effort vs. return. ;-) You could make a Micro do it, but some >filter/noise/sweep sounds are much easier to record and playback than >trying to re-synthesize them from scratch. I wouldn't want to do anything with synthesis that was easier to sample, either. It was just a suggestion to deal with the few sounds that don't take well to samples. > Doing things the easy/fast way and getting >it done seems appealing to me since we hacker-types can take months just >debating the merits of various solutions without getting much done. And since I'm not actually going to do it myself, the point is somewhat moot. // grigs