From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 1 02:49:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 02:49:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <001201bd16a3$4d2395e0$2a0000df@Obie> From: "David Shoemaker" To: Subject: Re: Atari Cat boxes Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 02:52:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker" >I will scan the schematic in today and toss it up on my web page. If there >is interest I will also send it to the list. It really doesn't look all >that complex. Ok after spending way too long on my scaner today, and not being done. Anyone have a good idea on the best way to turn these 3+ Meg bmp's into something more reasonable? I am scanning lineart at 600dpi and getting rather huge files. I will finish up the scanning tomorow but I am going to end up with 50+ meg worth of stuff unless I find a beter way to store it. And at 28.8 that will take the better part of forever to post to spies (no way that will fit on my web site). David From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 1 08:33:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 08:32:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Michael Searle Message-ID: To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Atari Cat boxes References: <001201bd16a3$4d2395e0$2a0000df@Obie> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 16:28:53 GMT X-Mailer: Offlite 0.09 / Termite Internet for Acorn RISC OS Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Michael Searle "David Shoemaker" wrote: >> I will scan the schematic in today and toss it up on my web page. If >> there is interest I will also send it to the list. It really doesn't >> look all that complex. > Ok after spending way too long on my scaner today, and not being done. > Anyone have a good idea on the best way to turn these 3+ Meg bmp's into > something more reasonable? > I am scanning lineart at 600dpi and getting rather huge files. > I will finish up the scanning tomorow but I am going to end up with 50+ > meg worth of stuff unless I find a beter way to store it. For a 2 colour image like that, GIF will probably compress them very well. (there are better ways but everyone can read gifs.) -- Michael Searle - csubl@csv.warwick.ac.uk From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 1 11:37:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:36:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:36:33 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Atari Cat boxes Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) they should compress down a bit at 1 bit per pixel and TIFF encoding with CCITT level 4 compression From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 1 13:15:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 13:15:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34AC06AD.22DF@links.magenta.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 14:12:13 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Atari Cat boxes References: <001201bd16a3$4d2395e0$2a0000df@Obie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey David Shoemaker wrote: > > >I will scan the schematic in today and toss it up on my web page. If there > >is interest I will also send it to the list. It really doesn't look all > >that complex. > > Ok after spending way too long on my scaner today, and not being done. > Anyone have a good idea on the best way to turn these 3+ Meg bmp's into > something more reasonable? > > I am scanning lineart at 600dpi and getting rather huge files. > > I will finish up the scanning tomorow but I am going to end up with 50+ meg > worth of stuff unless I find a beter way to store it. > > And at 28.8 that will take the better part of forever to post to spies (no > way that will fit on my web site). > > David I scan schems in at 150-200 dpi in greyscale. If you have a nice image editor you can adjust the gamma and get them looking pretty nice. Also since they aren't b/w you get better edges on the lines. I haveen't had good luck with lineart scans unless they are extremely high res. I ususally save in .jpg format but Im not sure how that works for everyone. .jpg's compress down nicely while maintaining 24 bit color resoulution. .gif's dont compress as much but since they are only 256 color (which is still fine for schems) they are inherently smaller datawise, but a good .jpg can be smaller still. jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 1 21:37:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 21:37:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <003101bd1740$d7d13600$2a0000df@Obie> From: "David Shoemaker" To: Subject: Re: Atari Cat boxes Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 21:39:41 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker" Ok I have finished scanning and I have them as .gif files. Pretty good reduction, 3.5 Meg total for all the pages. I am going to FTP to ftp.spies.com as I don't have quite enough room on my web page quota. I will be able to answer questions on the schematic as needed. I will also work on scanning and or OCRing the rest of the manual in over the next couple of weeks as needed. David From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 1 23:18:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 23:18:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 23:18:13 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: catbox schematics up Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) ftp://www.spies.com/arcade/schematics/atari/catbox I'll wire up the web pages, and create a .pdf file tomorrow.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Jan 3 17:16:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 17:15:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Atari Cat boxes Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 01:17:17 GMT Message-ID: <34afe26c.92288492@tommy.doctord.com> References: <001201bd16a3$4d2395e0$2a0000df@Obie> In-Reply-To: <001201bd16a3$4d2395e0$2a0000df@Obie> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Thu, 1 Jan 1998 02:52:04 -0800, "David Shoemaker" = wrote: >>I will scan the schematic in today and toss it up on my web page. If = there >>is interest I will also send it to the list. It really doesn't look = all >>that complex. > >Ok after spending way too long on my scaner today, and not being done. >Anyone have a good idea on the best way to turn these 3+ Meg bmp's into >something more reasonable? I've always found the best way to save B&W images without muddying up the= edges (like JPEG does) is to save the files as an uncompressed .BMP and use = PKZIP with the "-ex" switch (for maximum compression). So far that always seems to = beat any other lossless method. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 5 12:18:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:16:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-CriticalPath-Sent: 5 Jan 1998 20:15:14 GMT Message-ID: <34B13DFE.1021@netconx.net> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 14:09:34 -0600 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Star Trek pinout wanted Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Todd Miller I just picked up a Star Trek cage w/boards. I have it hooked up on the bench to a scope & it appears to be working. If any one has the cpu board pinout for the front (control panel & etc ) I'd like to walk it through the self test. It's not the same as my Space Fury & I didn't see it on spies either. I tried the TIFF files, but my software displays them skewed & unreadable. -- Thanks Todd http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 5 12:25:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:24:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:24:47 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Star Trek pinout wanted Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) you're going to need the spinner adapter board too.. clay, do you have any left? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 5 13:50:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:48:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:49:59 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Sega Multigame update... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Hi everybody, Hope you all had enjoyable holidays... Anyway, just a little update. I couldn't leave well enough alone and ended up making a couple more software modifications to the Multigame and then wrote a "real" installation manual (with pictures and whatnot like the ESB manual). So, now that that's out of the way, I'll be shipping out the multigame kits in small batches over the next couple weeks. I'll put the manual up on my webpage in PDF form later today. (A little hectic here today-- trying to remember what my job is... ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 5 14:00:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:59:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:59:27 GMT X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: EPROMs Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Hey Guys, I just bought a bunch of EPROMs, and I don't need all of them (it was an "all or nothing" deal) and I would like to pass on the savings to my fellow collectors. All have been erased and I'll guarantee against DOA. Shipping will be $3 for any size order. I have the following sizes 27c128 $1.25 27c256 $1.50 27c512 $2.00 27c010 $2.50 D8748H $3.00 (this one is a micro controller) I will also consider trades for RGVAC stuff (mostly looking for xy stuff) -jeff jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 5 15:51:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:48:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34B17111.D782517E@istar.ca> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 15:47:29 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Star Trek pinout wanted References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson You can use ANY spinner on this game, I have used clone arkanoid spinners with great success... John :-#)# Al Kossow wrote: > > you're going to need the spinner adapter board too.. > > clay, do you have any left? -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 5 15:54:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:53:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:52:56 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Star Trek pinout wanted Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "You can use ANY spinner on this game, I have used clone arkanoid spinners with great success... John :-#)#" there is a small PCB between the spinner and the CPU board too, which is what I meant. the schematic for it is on www.spies.com, and clay was building a few boards up in the batch of multigame boards. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 5 16:52:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:51:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB49@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Cc: David Shoemaker Subject: RE: Battle Zone board problems Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:50:31 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" What is the expected Peak to Peak on the X and Y outs from an Atari vector game? During my testing I am using my scope to check for signal at the test points but I am seeing very small (like .2v ptp) signals. Seems a bit low but I don't know what it should be. Now if I could just get my Tektronix scope with X / Y mode fixed I could actually see what the vectors were putting out. My Tenma scope doesn't have x/y. :( Thanks, David > ---------- > From: David Shoemaker[SMTP:davids@wolfenet.com] > Reply To: vectorlist@spies.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 9:06 PM > To: Vectorlist > Cc: David Shoemaker > Subject: Battle Zone board problems > > I have two BZ AVG boards each with different problems, I am hoping that > one of you here can give me some help.  As I have no working BZ set I am > shooting somewhat in the dark. >   > Monitor checked out and working, checked with an Asteroids. >   > AVG #1 > No vector output (flat line 0 v on X / Y out) (SK on) > Watchdog barking > With WD disabled still nothing. > Test switch results in nothing >   > AVG #2 > No Vectors (Spot killer on) > Board runs > Self test results in "Long" tones continuously.  I have waited 15 before > giving up. > This board is eating the TL082 at D10 (Y).  I replace it and it appears to > work ok for a minute or two then the output goes to +15Vdc.  And that is > the end of that op amp. Inputs appear ok. > At some point in the past the board was hit pretty hard by something, the > X op amp had blown (literally).  This has been replaced and appears to be > ok. >   > I have 4 math box boards but at this time can't tell what is what with > them. >   > As an aside as I was doing this mail I hooked up my third AVG board and > noticed that it had a different ROM revision and very faded the words Red > Baron on it. That would explain why it was not working quite right.  I > will have to test it at some other point. >   > Thanks, > David > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 5 17:15:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:13:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-CriticalPath-Sent: 6 Jan 1998 01:11:59 GMT Message-ID: <34B1838B.CBA@netconx.net> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 19:06:19 -0600 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Star Trek pinout wanted References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Todd Miller Al Kossow wrote: > > there is a small PCB between the spinner and the CPU board too, > which is what I meant. Yep, ordered them w/ Sega multi game kit last month. Is that why there is an edge card conn on the front of the cage instead of a harness ?? > the schematic for it is on www.spies.com, and clay was building > a few boards up in the batch of multigame boards. I tried a different software package at work to view the TIFF's, still unreadable when I zoom in. Can they be converted to JPG's or PDF's ? -- Thanks Todd http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 5 17:33:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:32:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:32:21 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Star Trek pinout wanted Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "I tried a different software package at work to view the TIFF's, still unreadable when I zoom in. Can they be converted to JPG's or PDF's ?" ..guess it's time for me to do that i'll convert the wiring harnesses to pdf's tonight "Is that why there is an edge card conn on the front of the cage instead of a harness ??" no, there was a small circuit board that was placed near the control panel that was a quadrature decoder which ran from the front of the game back to the card cage. I guess the connector on the top of the card box was there for EMI/RFI shielding. I'll send out a mail message as soon as the TIFFs are converted to a PDF file From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 5 18:02:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:01:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:02:06 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Star Trek pinout wanted Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >"You can use ANY spinner on this game, I have used clone arkanoid >spinners with great success... >John :-#)#" > >there is a small PCB between the spinner and the CPU board too, >which is what I meant. > >the schematic for it is on www.spies.com, and clay was building >a few boards up in the batch of multigame boards. I think about 4 or so of the spinner boards were spoken for. That would leave me with 1 or 2 left. Most any quadrature-output type "spinner" should work. I haven't tried it with anything other than the Sega spinner yet. I have some all-in-onw TTL output guys to try, a TRON spinner, and a couple of old Tektronix "thumbwheel" spinners too... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 5 18:39:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:37:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:37:45 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: G80 schematics in pdf format Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) I left the drawings as 8 1/2 * 11, but made them into a single pdf file. http://www.spies.com/arcade/schematics/convertaGame/G80.pdf the individual sheets are still up there too. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 6 07:39:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:37:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:35:00 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9801060934.ZM9025@calcite> In-Reply-To: Todd Miller "Re: Star Trek pinout wanted" (Jan 5, 7:06pm) References: <199801060120.UAA04535@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Star Trek pinout wanted Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mark Jenison On Jan 5, 7:06pm, Todd Miller wrote: > Subject: Re: Star Trek pinout wanted > Al Kossow wrote: > > > > there is a small PCB between the spinner and the CPU board too, > > which is what I meant. > > Yep, ordered them w/ Sega multi game kit last month. > Is that why there is an edge card conn on the front of the > cage instead of a harness ?? The edge card conn in the card cage means you have a Star Trek Kit cage. I've never had an entire kit, but one can theorize that the kit contained a 22 pin generic wiring harness, and a finger board was inserted between the two (instead of the kit containing a harness with about 6 miscellanous mate-n-lock connectors like the real converta-cabinet has). Star Trek was a popular Asteroids conversion. Replace the vector monitor and insert a finger board and re-wire the control panel, and most of the existing Asteroids harness could be re-used. However, the edge card conn you mention doesn't have a pin out that matches any game (as far as I can tell), so a mapping finger board was probably required for any or all Star Trek conversion kits. This is all just my theory, of course :-). Anyone ever had a complete Star Trek conversion kit? I have the manual, but it never mentions any particular conversion procedures. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Mark Jenison From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 6 07:49:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:48:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:47:59 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Star Trek pinout wanted Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "This is all just my theory, of course :-). Anyone ever had a complete Star Trek conversion kit? I have the manual, but it never mentions any particular conversion procedures." This is correct. I converted a Star Trek BACK to an Asteroids a few months ago and there is a finger board on the top of the card cage. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 6 07:59:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:57:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980106095954.00997700@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:59:55 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: Star Trek pinout wanted Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) > >Star Trek was a popular Asteroids conversion. Replace the vector monitor and >insert a finger board and re-wire the control panel, and most of the existing >Asteroids harness could be re-used. However, the edge card conn you mention >doesn't have a pin out that matches any game (as far as I can tell), so a >mapping finger board was probably required for any or all Star Trek conversion >kits. > >This is all just my theory, of course :-). Anyone ever had a complete Star >Trek conversion kit? I have the manual, but it never mentions any particular >conversion procedures. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com >Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >-- >Mark Jenison > I have the wiring harness and cage for a Star Trek that was out of an Asteroids Deluxe. If I remember I'll check it out tonight ... I do remember the soldering job on the fingerboard being pretty damn sloppy :) Mit From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 6 09:32:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:31:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:32:26 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: Battle Zone board problems Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >What is the expected Peak to Peak on the X and Y outs from an Atari vector >game? During my testing I am using my scope to check for signal at the test >points but I am seeing very small (like .2v ptp) signals. Seems a bit low >but I don't know what it should be. If you're looking at the test points on the output stages of the AVG, you should be seeing something more around 10-14V peak to peak. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 6 09:54:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:53:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:53:04 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Mint Zektor found! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) If you haven't seen Lee Bender's posting already, take a look in RGVAC. The shots are up on http://www.spies.com/arcade/photos/index5.html From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 6 10:36:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:35:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:34:54 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Zektor posting from RGVAC Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) From: Lee Bender Subject: NEW Zektor Found! and other surprises!!! Lines: 32 Last week, while on vacation, I did my usual snooping around in wharehouses and found what has to be the Holy Grail of arcade video games: A 100% complete dedicated Zektor that has been in storage since new! I know this sounds unbelieveable, so I have uploaded pictures of it so you can see how nice it truly is. The game was put on location for just a few weeks when it was new (I saw the records) and took in about $150 before being pulled (probably a monitor problem). Everything is here and original and complete. Please look at the following pictures and ENJOY! Other Noteworthy finds: A BRAND NEW (Never put on location) Scramble Cocktail. No kidding. It still had the warranty card in the coin door and the purchase slip was taped to the glass (I still have it) It was in 100% absolutley MINT condition but it has experienced a little cracking on the backglass in a small area as a result of cleaning it. A fabulous find anyway! See my pic that I have posted of this one also. A FROGGER cocktail (19" monitor) I haven't seen one of these before. Works great. A MINI Phoenix. Missing 13" monitor, but other wise complete. If someone is interested in purchasing any of this equipment, I may entertain offers. :) Lee From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 6 11:36:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:35:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:36:25 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Sega Multigame Poll... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Hi Guys. I'm trying to decide how many PCB's I need to order for the "main run" of Sega Multigame Kits. My little post-it pad says that I had interest in about 22 boards (paid orders) from Vectorlist. I've got checks in for 11 of those. So, I just need to know: ***** If you told me earlier that you'd like a Sega Multigame Kit, but have NOT sent me a check yet, please let me know that you still want a board (or not). I don't need the money right away, but I do need a firm commitment that you'll send it someday. :-) (Like in the next 3 months.) ***** From the response on this over the next few days I'll order the main run of boards. Early orders will start shipping in the next day or two. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 6 13:53:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:51:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34B27FDE.56C5@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 13:02:54 -0600 From: RWood54741@worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-WorldNet (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Star Trek pinout wanted References: <34B13DFE.1021@netconx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: RWood54741@worldnet.att.net Todd Miller wrote: > > I just picked up a Star Trek cage w/boards. I have it hooked up > on the bench to a scope & it appears to be working. Todd, Glad that Star Trek boardset is working. That proves that when "Honest" Bob Wood sells something as "untested" then it really is untested. Honest Bob From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 6 13:57:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:56:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199801062156.QAA13795@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> From: "The Retrodaddy" To: Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Poll... Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:53:26 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "The Retrodaddy" I have not sent you the moneyn yet, and did not know that you wanted me too. :> I DEFINITELY want one. I picked up a Start Trek just for this thing. Unless you need the money right away, just put me down as a definite, and let me know when you have a stack ready. Actually, if it is not a problem. put me down for 2 of them. Michael Benge ---------- > From: Clay Cowgill > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: Clay Cowgill > Subject: Sega Multigame Poll... > Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 2:36 PM > > Hi Guys. > > I'm trying to decide how many PCB's I need to order for the "main run" of > Sega Multigame Kits. > > My little post-it pad says that I had interest in about 22 boards (paid > orders) from Vectorlist. I've got checks in for 11 of those. So, I just > need to know: > > ***** If you told me earlier that you'd like a Sega Multigame Kit, but have > NOT sent me a check yet, please let me know that you still want a board (or > not). I don't need the money right away, but I do need a firm commitment > that you'll send it someday. :-) (Like in the next 3 months.) ***** > > From the response on this over the next few days I'll order the main run of > boards. Early orders will start shipping in the next day or two. > > -Clay > > Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager > _______________________________________________________________________ > /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com > \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ > > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 6 14:23:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:21:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199801062221.RAA00185@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> From: "The Retrodaddy" To: Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Poll... Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:19:54 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "The Retrodaddy" doh!!!! :> > I have not sent you the moneyn yet, and did not know that you wanted me > > I'm trying to decide how many PCB's I need to order for the "main run" of > > Sega Multigame Kits. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 6 15:24:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:23:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:24:08 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Poll... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >I have not sent you the moneyn yet, and did not know that you wanted me >too. :> I DEFINITELY want one. I picked up a Start Trek just for this >thing. Unless you need the money right away, just put me down as a >definite, and let me know when you have a stack ready. Actually, if it is >not a problem. put me down for 2 of them. Yeah, it wasn't a "have to send money" message a while back, just a "send it when you're ready". :-) I just want to be sure I have enough to go around. I'll put you down for two for now. If you change your mind later one more or less won't be a big deal... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 6 17:00:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:58:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:00:27 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Poll... Cc: Clay Cowgill Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 11:36 1/6/98, Clay Cowgill wrote: >Hi Guys. > >I'm trying to decide how many PCB's I need to order for the "main run" of >Sega Multigame Kits. > >My little post-it pad says that I had interest in about 22 boards (paid >orders) from Vectorlist. I've got checks in for 11 of those. So, I just >need to know: > >***** If you told me earlier that you'd like a Sega Multigame Kit, but have >NOT sent me a check yet, please let me know that you still want a board (or >not). I don't need the money right away, but I do need a firm commitment >that you'll send it someday. :-) (Like in the next 3 months.) ***** > > From the response on this over the next few days I'll order the main run of >boards. Early orders will start shipping in the next day or two. Clay, I am still in for 2 complete sets (i.e. 2 multis + 2 spinners) and also 2 of the "new" ESB kits. I will send the $$ (and some SW PCBs) in the next week or so. I just printed out the order form! Can I get some kind of bulk discount? :> From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 6 23:12:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:10:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34B32A18.400B0460@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 23:09:12 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com" Subject: Simple XY B&W system Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Now that I have your attention, I have stuck on my web site a 600K JPEG file named http://www.flippers.com/hoei-xy.jpg which is my promised (a few months ago) scan of an old Asteroids clone's solution for the deflection circuitry problems. They used off-the-shelf audio amp modules! After all that is well within the bandwidth for these games... Would someone PLASE put this up on Spies and post a note so I can direct enquiries,( I don't want to e-mail it to the group-Duh!- but neither do I know the process to do this...)My site is only on a 128K link to the net, so it's a little SLOW for more than a few folks at any one time... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 6 23:22:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:21:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:21:11 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Simple XY B&W system Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) http://www.flippers.com/hoei-xy.jpg wasn't found From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 00:49:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:46:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34B3409D.CC5A9452@istar.ca> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 00:45:17 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Simple XY B&W system References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Yeah, opps, my ftp program crashed, so it might be a day or two untill I find where the problem is. I really hate DOS/WINDOWS!!! John :-#(# Al Kossow wrote: > > http://www.flippers.com/hoei-xy.jpg wasn't found -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 07:28:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:26:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-CriticalPath-Sent: 7 Jan 1998 15:24:25 GMT Message-ID: <34B39EA6.20EC@netconx.net> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 09:26:30 -0600 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: WTB:SPO-250 IC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Todd Miller I thought I'd ask since a mint Zektor surfaced, does anyone have a extra SPO-250 Orator chip to sell ? The one in the Star Trek set I just picked up is dead. -- Thanks Todd http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 11:55:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:54:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980107135339.00c8fb64@netins.net> X-Sender: omar@netins.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 13:53:39 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: omar@netins.net Subject: More Star Trek questions In-Reply-To: <34B13DFE.1021@netconx.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: omar@netins.net Like Todd, I too just acquired a Star Trek cage with boards. Not having the original power supply, I'm wondering if there is any reason I can't use a standard PC supply to power this thing? Or is that what is commonly done already? What is pin 3 on the power connecter? Is this some sort of power up reset or power good signal? Can I just tie it high? Thanks, Mike Benedict From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 11:59:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:57:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:57:50 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: More Star Trek questions Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) A PC supply will work fine. Pin 3 is a power good signal that I tie to 12v through a resistor. I guess other people have used the power ok siginal of the PC supply itself. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 12:05:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:04:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:04:02 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: More Star Trek questions Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) I double-checked with the analog guy in the cube next to me, and any voltage greater than .7 of a volt or so will turn Q6 on, so connecting it to the power ok (assuming it's active high..) out of the PC power supply is the right thing to do.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 12:25:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:23:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-CriticalPath-Sent: 7 Jan 1998 20:22:10 GMT Message-ID: <34B3E29F.4A9D@netconx.net> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 14:16:31 -0600 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: More Star Trek questions References: <3.0.3.32.19980107135339.00c8fb64@netins.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Todd Miller omar@netins.net wrote: > > > What is pin 3 on the power connecter? Is this some sort of power up reset > or power good signal? Can I just tie it high? I use a PC supply on my bench set up, the pin 3 is an AC signal for the power up reset. I used the 'power good' of the supply or you could tie it to 5v as well -- Todd From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 12:30:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:28:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:28:54 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Clay's power supply adapter Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) hey clay, when you lay out the board for the PC adapter could you pin out some output pads so you can just plug it into the side of a G80 card cage? or is there another 'favorite' pinout that could be brought out as well? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 13:23:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:21:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:22:34 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: More Star Trek questions Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >What is pin 3 on the power connecter? Is this some sort of power up reset >or power good signal? Can I just tie it high? I actually just tack a little wire from the base-side of the resistor on Q6 to +5 on the CPU board... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 14:45:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:43:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34B3FDD6.255F@links.magenta.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 15:12:38 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vectorlist Subject: Atari AVG Controller Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey I know this idea has been tossed around before but the AVG chip has once again stuck it's ugly head into my life, twice this time. The last 4 vector boards that I have repaired had bad AVG controllers on them at that was all, im running desperately low and really dont' want to cannabalize other games anymore, it's dreadful. Like I need another project... not. But I need some guidance at least from all you PAL/PIC/GAL people. Since this IC has ram in it, is that the part that is throwing the wrench into putting this onto a basic PAL? What programable IC's would this circuit fit onto? It is such a simple circuit, can it be that hard? I would be interested in getting at least 20-25 of them if I could be done somehow. Any ideas? jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 15:04:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:02:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980107163609.00c9cc38@netins.net> X-Sender: omar@netins.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 16:36:09 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: omar@netins.net Subject: Re: More Star Trek questions In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: omar@netins.net At 12:04 PM 1/7/98 -0800, you wrote: >I double-checked with the analog guy in the cube next to me, and any voltage >greater than .7 of a volt or so will turn Q6 on, so connecting it to the >power ok (assuming it's active high..) out of the PC power supply is the >right thing to do.. Great! I have a bunch of good power supplies that were pulled from old 286, 386 computers. I'll be glad to finally put at least one of them to use. Any suggestions on what I should do for a monitor? I mean should I look for a G-08 monitor to use, or should I avoid those like the plague and use something else? Thanks for all the responses! Mike Benedict From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 15:08:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:07:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:06:19 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: Vectorlist Subject: Re: Atari AVG Controller In-Reply-To: <34B3FDD6.255F@links.magenta.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Jess Askey wrote: > Like I need another project... not. But I need some guidance at least > from all you PAL/PIC/GAL people. Since this IC has ram in it, is that > the part that is throwing the wrench into putting this onto a basic PAL? > What programable IC's would this circuit fit onto? It is such a simple > circuit, can it be that hard? I would be interested in getting at least > 20-25 of them if I could be done somehow. > Any ideas? > jess Yeah, PAL's can't really do RAM. The only "standard cell" way to do a RAM is with a flip-flop/latch, and most PLDs have very limited numbers of those (i.e. not in the 1000s of flip-flops/latches that are needed for a simple 2k x 8 6116 RAM, for example) How much RAM is there?....maybe a larger FPGA might work? Joe From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 15:15:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:13:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:13:26 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: More Star Trek questions Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Any suggestions on what I should do for a monitor?" unfortunately, you don't have any choice. the G08 is the only vector monitor fast enough From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 15:16:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:15:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:15:13 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: AVG chip schematics Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) didn't someone say that they had the schematics for this part? clay? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 16:07:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:05:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34B41762.419A@links.magenta.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 17:01:38 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: AVG chip schematics References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Al Kossow wrote: > > didn't someone say that they had the schematics for this > part? clay? I have them. I made a page at... http://www.gamearchive.com/video/manufacturer/atari/vector/tech/avg_controller/ Whew, that is a mouthful. :-) As it says there, the RAM is only 12 bits at 4 words. Pretty small. jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 16:31:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:29:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:30:33 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Atari AVG Controller Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Like I need another project... not. But I need some guidance at least > from all you PAL/PIC/GAL people. Since this IC has ram in it, is that >the part that is throwing the wrench into putting this onto a basic PAL? >What programable IC's would this circuit fit onto? It is such a simple >circuit, can it be that hard? I would be interested in getting at least >20-25 of them if I could be done somehow. I went down this path once before. I have the entire thing designed out in TTL, and placed and routed on a PCB. Even have parts to build 10 or 20. The only gotcha was that the PCB is kinda large to accomodate all the 'LS type chips. My original poll was looking for who was interested and would you want to pay $20-25 bucks a pop for them. (The PCB's in low quantity were around $12-15 each, so if you add in $3-5 worth of chips and some $$$ for time/assembly they were in the $20-25 range.) The consensus seemed to be that $30 Space Duel boards were relatively easy to find and except for a couple people nobody was interested so I didn't make any. That having been said... Are enough people interested that I could do a run of 40-50 boards? That should be enough to keep the price at or under $20 I'd think... (Since it then makes sense to buy chips in quantity 100+ which helps costs and the number of boards keeps the setup fees down.) I looked at the CPLD/FPGA angle too. The circuit isn't really complex (it's really just 133% of the discrete stuff you see on Tempest to do the Vector Address Generator), but it has some wide counters and 12bit wide registers (I think four deep) for a stack. The twist was: Plan A: CPLD only. Maybe do-able with big enough CPLD. Cost wasn't too bad-- around $10 for the part, but the bigger CPLD's won't fit inside the footprint of a 40 pin dip so the PCB cost still added another $5-7. Have to implement design in Synario or some HDL, or Viewlogic. Kinda involved. Plan B: CPLD + register file chips. ('670s) Cheaper CPLD (for counters, muxes, and logic) for around $6, register files added maybe $1, now you need a bigger board to hold the extra chips and I/O's might be a problem on the CPLD's. Same complications as Plan A for designing the thing. Plan C: FPGA. Needs an external boot memory, dev. tools not handy, needs big PCB because of footprint size, pain in the rear to hand solder. I didn't want to deal with it. (singles pricing for the cheapest Xilinx part plus a serial configuration memory is about $18 from Digikey-- and I'm not sure the design would fit in that part either.) Plan D: TTL on a big PCB. Easy to implement. Big PCB adds cost, chips are relatively cheap though. For just cranking something out that'll work I liked Plan D. For a cool project I liked Plan A. But, I have enough cool projects so I didn't want to take on Plan A. The FPGA route might be good if you could get a high-enough density FGPA for the Xilinx 4000 series quantity pricing -- around $3 per chip plus about $.75 for the serial memory. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 16:39:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:37:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:38:37 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: AVG chip schematics Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >As it says there, the RAM is only 12 bits at 4 words. Pretty small. > jess Yeah, but that's 48 macrocells in most CPLD's. Figure one macrocell for each bit in a counter (14 more) and some more stuff that isn't in the Tempest AVG schematic and you're over a 64 macrocell CPLD and into a 128. The 128 cell CPLD could still be pretty cost-effective though... Damn it. Now you've got me interested in the problem again. ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 17:07:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:05:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34B42562.3BFB@links.magenta.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 18:01:22 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: AVG chip schematics References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Clay Cowgill wrote: > > >As it says there, the RAM is only 12 bits at 4 words. Pretty small. > > jess > > Yeah, but that's 48 macrocells in most CPLD's. Figure one macrocell for > each bit in a counter (14 more) and some more stuff that isn't in the > Tempest AVG schematic Is there more to it than what is shown in the tempest schem? Did you and Travis find some kind of official schem for it? I would be more than happy to help in donating manpower for Plan A, but since Im self employed, my resources are very limited. My nicest test equipment would be either the HP-5004 or the Fluke Scopemeter. :-0 jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 17:07:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:05:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34B4257B.3B7@links.magenta.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 18:01:47 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Atari AVG Controller References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Clay Cowgill wrote: > > > Like I need another project... not. But I need some guidance at least > > from all you PAL/PIC/GAL people. Since this IC has ram in it, is that > >the part that is throwing the wrench into putting this onto a basic PAL? > >What programable IC's would this circuit fit onto? It is such a simple > >circuit, can it be that hard? I would be interested in getting at least > >20-25 of them if I could be done somehow. > > I went down this path once before. I have the entire thing designed out in > TTL, and placed and routed on a PCB. Even have parts to build 10 or 20. > The only gotcha was that the PCB is kinda large to accomodate all the 'LS > type chips. > > My original poll was looking for who was interested and would you want to > pay $20-25 bucks a pop for them. (The PCB's in low quantity were around > $12-15 each, so if you add in $3-5 worth of chips and some $$$ for > time/assembly they were in the $20-25 range.) > > The consensus seemed to be that $30 Space Duel boards were relatively easy > to find and except for a couple people nobody was interested so I didn't > make any. > > That having been said... > > Are enough people interested that I could do a run of 40-50 boards? That > should be enough to keep the price at or under $20 I'd think... (Since it > then makes sense to buy chips in quantity 100+ which helps costs and the > number of boards keeps the setup fees down.) > > I looked at the CPLD/FPGA angle too. The circuit isn't really complex > (it's really just 133% of the discrete stuff you see on Tempest to do the > Vector Address Generator), but it has some wide counters and 12bit wide > registers (I think four deep) for a stack. The twist was: > > Plan A: CPLD only. Maybe do-able with big enough CPLD. Cost wasn't too > bad-- around $10 for the part, but the bigger CPLD's won't fit inside the > footprint of a 40 pin dip so the PCB cost still added another $5-7. Have > to implement design in Synario or some HDL, or Viewlogic. Kinda involved. > > Plan B: CPLD + register file chips. ('670s) Cheaper CPLD (for counters, > muxes, and logic) for around $6, register files added maybe $1, now you > need a bigger board to hold the extra chips and I/O's might be a problem on > the CPLD's. Same complications as Plan A for designing the thing. > > Plan C: FPGA. Needs an external boot memory, dev. tools not handy, needs > big PCB because of footprint size, pain in the rear to hand solder. I > didn't want to deal with it. (singles pricing for the cheapest Xilinx part > plus a serial configuration memory is about $18 from Digikey-- and I'm not > sure the design would fit in that part either.) > > Plan D: TTL on a big PCB. Easy to implement. Big PCB adds cost, chips > are relatively cheap though. > > For just cranking something out that'll work I liked Plan D. For a cool > project I liked Plan A. But, I have enough cool projects so I didn't want > to take on Plan A. The FPGA route might be good if you could get a > high-enough density FGPA for the Xilinx 4000 series quantity pricing -- > around $3 per chip plus about $.75 for the serial memory. Thank you much for the very detailed explanation. That is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you again for spending so much time looking into this. What dimensions does your current PCB require? Even at $20-25 each I would be interested in buying about 10 of them right now (Im oh so poor now, I just couldn't let that proto Major Havoc get away!). Of course I had dreams of it fitting on a small chip in a 40-pin DIP header! Damn reality! ;-) Anyone else interested in buying some of these? Im out of space duel boards. -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 17:09:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:08:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB54@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Off definition request for design help Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:07:16 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" I am working on a William's multigame rig and in the process of doing the control panel re-routing per game I just don't like my design. As there are many of you here who have very much more EE design knowledge than I, I have been wanting to ask forever. But I refuse to go off the list definition that far. Is there another list with this kind of quality knowledge that anyone here knows about that I could go to instead? Thanks, David PS Yes the Cat Box was also slightly off but what can I say? Update on that soon to follow. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 17:11:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:10:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 19:09:39 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: AVG chip schematics In-Reply-To: <34B41762.419A@links.magenta.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Jess Askey wrote: > I have them. I made a page at... > > http://www.gamearchive.com/video/manufacturer/atari/vector/tech/avg_controller/ > > Whew, that is a mouthful. :-) > > As it says there, the RAM is only 12 bits at 4 words. Pretty small. > jess Then, it needs 48 latches/registers, which, I think is easily do-able for most PLDs...Not as bad as I thought... It doesn't look bad at all. I'm going to try write some code for this one and see what happens... Joe From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 17:16:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:15:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:14:59 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: avg asic Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) is there a small footprint Lattice part that would fit into a 40pin outline? does it use all 40 pins of the package? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 17:33:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:31:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34B42B89.3DE3@links.magenta.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 18:27:37 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: avg asic References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Al Kossow wrote: > > is there a small footprint Lattice part that > would fit into a 40pin outline? > > does it use all 40 pins of the package? >From my schems the AVGC uses all 40 pins. -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 17:40:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:39:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Off definition request for design help Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 01:40:34 GMT Message-ID: <34b52d5c.22664212@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB54@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> In-Reply-To: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB54@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:07:16 -0800 , "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" wrote: >I am working on a William's multigame rig and in the process of doing = the >control panel re-routing per game I just don't like my design. As there= are >many of you here who have very much more EE design knowledge than I, I = have >been wanting to ask forever. > >But I refuse to go off the list definition that far. Is there another = list >with this kind of quality knowledge that anyone here knows about that I >could go to instead? > >Thanks, >David > >PS >Yes the Cat Box was also slightly off but what can I say? Update on = that >soon to follow. You just asked the question wrong, try... -------- I am working on a [Cinematronics] multigame rig and in the process of = doing the control panel re-routing per game I just don't like my design. As there = are many of you here who have very much more EE design knowledge than I, I = have been wanting to ask forever. My question is: (blah blah blah) BTW: to make things easier it would be nice if this design would also = work with a Williams multi-game setup... -------- ;-) -Zonn (BTW: I thought the CAT box, being used to fix Atari Vector, games was = right on target) <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 17:46:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:45:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:46:23 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: AVG chip schematics Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >Is there more to it than what is shown in the tempest schem? Did you and >Travis find >some kind of official schem for it? I have a copy of the "real" vector address generator from an anonymous source. He/she asked that I not spread it around. I don't recall if it was a non-disclosure thing or a promise to his/her source or something. If he/she changes his/her mind I'll post it somewhere. (My webpage is "drifting" at the moment.) I guess if I made some boards from the design the "cat would be out of the bag" so to speak anyway... Hmmmmm. Well, I made a promise not to leak it around, so I'll have to wait for clearance. (Problem is that I honestly don't remember who gave it to me. Or rather, I *think* I remember, but I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure he/she will see this message though... ;-) -Clay (On another somewhat unrelated note-- I might make some of the PacMan/MsPacMan "custom chip" replacement boards. The VRAM addresser and Z-80 Sync Bus controller. Those should each fit nicely into a small CPLD. :-) Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 18:00:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:59:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:00:20 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: avg asic Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >is there a small footprint Lattice part that >would fit into a 40pin outline? I'll have to re-check. They might have an SSOP package for those that MIGHT fit in there. It's entirely possible that I was only looking at the PLCC packages since I *REALLY* didn't want to hand-solder anything smaller. >does it use all 40 pins of the package? Pretty close as I recall. I remember thinking that it might work in a 44pin PLCC part if the macrocell count was high enough. You know... I could do something like: +---------+--------+---------+ | o o o o | | o o o o | | | | | | | | |<-- Not a band-aid. A 40 pin IC sized PCB with | o o o o | | o o o o | a square PLCC in the middle going "over" both +---------+--------+---------+ rows of 40 pin DIP pins... And just clip off the I/O pins that would short out to the through-hole DIP pins. Like: | | | | | | | | | | | --+-------------------+-- + + <-- snipped off pins + + --+ +-- --+ +-- --+ +-- --+ +-- --+ +-- + + + + --+-------------------+-- | | | | | | | | | | | I'd lose some I/O's. (probably 4-8 depending on the package and lead spacing), but at least it would sit "over" the DIP. It's mucho more expensive to make a non-rectangular board like: +---------+ +---------/ \---------+ | | | | | | | | +---------\ /---------+ +---------+ (Have to pay for router time, which is usually only available on a more "production" level pay scale for the PCB's. And the boards are usually too small for the "affordable" manufacturer's to do.) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 18:06:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:04:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:05:54 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: AVG chip schematics Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >> As it says there, the RAM is only 12 bits at 4 words. Pretty small. >> jess > > Then, it needs 48 latches/registers, which, I think is easily >do-able for most PLDs...Not as bad as I thought... > > It doesn't look bad at all. I'm going to try write some code for >this one and see what happens... What kind of PLD's are you looking at? Methinks you'll need a 128 macrocell type critter like the Cypress or Lattice ones... (Or a small colony of 22V10's.) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 7 21:58:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:54:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <004601bd1bfa$54fbbd40$2a0000df@Obie> From: "David Shoemaker" To: Subject: Re: Off definition request for design help Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:57:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker" >You just asked the question wrong, try... Very good point Zonn :) >I am working on a [Cinematronics] multigame rig and in the process of doing the >control panel re-routing per game I just don't like my design. As there are >many of you here who have very much more EE design knowledge than I, I have >been wanting to ask forever. > >My question is: I am attempting to route say 8 TTL control lines from point a to point b with them being re-arraigned as needed for each game. I want to be able to tie this into a dip switch which picks the "Mode" of the routing. I can do this with a large amount of digital switches but as I can only do one mode in no less than 3 of these parts it is a very cumbersome process as I have say 8 modes to perform. Graphically I am doing something like this (on 4 modes with 4 lines to save space) Mode 1 2 3 4 a a d d b b b c c d c b d c a a Where a-d is the source pin designator and its vertical position in the chart is its destination pin. I know there must be some way to load the "mode" map into some sort of controller which would then route signals to the appropriate place. Ultimate goal would be 16 i/o's with routing. And 8 modes. I am willing to break this up into as many as 4 parts handling 1/4th the load but I am really trying to reduce part count. Cost is not nearly as much an issue but my minimal knowledge of microcontrolers / PLD / GAL / (and the rest of the alphabet soup that goes around here sometimes :) and there capabilities is. One idea I had was using 2 large 8bit EPROM's with the inputs from the control panel being the address select (8 bit + 3 mode select bits) and data outs being the data out to the game. But this really seems like a large waste and I am not sure I can reasonably get EPROM's to perform fast enough for my purpose. Any additional suggestions would be greatly appreciated, >BTW: to make things easier it would be nice if this design would also work with >a Williams multi-game setup... :) Thanks to all. David From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 05:43:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 05:42:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Lotus-Fromdomain: SYBASENOTES From: "Paul Tonizzo" To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-Id: <85256586.004A9E09.00@gwwest.sybase.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:41:07 -0500 Subject: Re: More Star Trek questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Paul Tonizzo" >>"Any suggestions on what I should do for a monitor?" > >unfortunately, you don't have any choice. >the G08 is the only vector monitor fast enough Not so! I am running every Sega vector game out of my Space Duel cabinet. It's got a WG color vector in it. There are some very minor vector drawing problems with most of the games. For example, once in a while a stray vector gets drawn in Space Fury. If you want 100% perfection then you should get a G08 - I feel it's excellent on the WG as a whole. FWIW, Star Trek is almost perfect. The only game that is a little messy is TacScan - even then it's quite playable. Paul From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 10:32:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:31:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:30:03 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: AVG chip schematics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Clay Cowgill wrote: > What kind of PLD's are you looking at? Methinks you'll need a 128 > macrocell type critter like the Cypress or Lattice ones... (Or a small > colony of 22V10's.) > I'm thinking you're right about it not fitting in a 64 macrocell one (Like a MACH 210) but I'm thinking it will fit into a 96 macrocell one (like a a MACH 220) if not, there's always MACH 230s (128 macrocells.) What I usually do is just write the code, and keep re-targeting it until it fits. Last I remember, AMD MACH stuff was "pretty cheap," and that was 2 or so years ago. Joe From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 10:40:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:38:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:38:26 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: AVG chip schematics Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) " Last I remember, AMD MACH stuff was "pretty cheap," and that was 2 or so years ago. " Looking at the small footprint surface mount parts would be helpful to try to get in into a 40 pin outline. For the quantitites we're talking about, I can probably get a rework person around here to put them down on boards for us.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 10:47:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:45:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Off definition request for design help Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 18:46:48 GMT Message-ID: <34b51a5a.29673997@tommy.doctord.com> References: <004601bd1bfa$54fbbd40$2a0000df@Obie> In-Reply-To: <004601bd1bfa$54fbbd40$2a0000df@Obie> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:57:39 -0800, "David Shoemaker" = wrote: >>You just asked the question wrong, try... >Very good point Zonn :) > > > >>I am working on a [Cinematronics] multigame rig and in the process of = doing >the >>control panel re-routing per game I just don't like my design. As = there >are >>many of you here who have very much more EE design knowledge than I, I = have >>been wanting to ask forever. >> >>My question is: > >I am attempting to route say 8 TTL control lines from point a to point b >with them being re-arraigned as needed for each game. I want to be able= to >tie this into a dip switch which picks the "Mode" of the routing. > >I can do this with a large amount of digital switches but as I can only = do >one mode in no less than 3 of these parts it is a very cumbersome = process as >I have say 8 modes to perform. > >Graphically I am doing something like this (on 4 modes with 4 lines to = save >space) > >Mode 1 2 3 4 > a a d d > b b b c > c d c b > d c a a > >Where a-d is the source pin designator and its vertical position in the >chart is its destination pin. > >I know there must be some way to load the "mode" map into some sort of >controller which would then route signals to the appropriate place. > >Ultimate goal would be 16 i/o's with routing. And 8 modes. I am = willing to >break this up into as many as 4 parts handling 1/4th the load but I am >really trying to reduce part count. Cost is not nearly as much an issue= but >my minimal knowledge of microcontrolers / PLD / GAL / (and the rest of = the >alphabet soup that goes around here sometimes :) and there capabilities = is. > >One idea I had was using 2 large 8bit EPROM's with the inputs from the >control panel being the address select (8 bit + 3 mode select bits) and = data >outs being the data out to the game. But this really seems like a large >waste and I am not sure I can reasonably get EPROM's to perform fast = enough >for my purpose. The cleanest would be a self contain microprocessor (like the PIC). You = could get by with just the PIC, a couple of resistors and a cap or two, the = dipswitch, and possibly a voltage regulator. Then whatever connectors you would use= to wire everything up to the control panel. This would of course require software and the ability to burn PICs. PIC = burners can be had fairly cheap. (<$100 I've seen as low as $40 on the net) Large EPROMs would work great and are a magnitude (at the very least) = faster than what you need, don't worry about speed. They only problem you might= have with EPROMs is glitches as they change states. It is possible for data = lines to glitch as the address decoder of the EPROM ripples through it's logic = looking for the right data. I doubt it will be a problem (the glitches, if = present, are *very* fast). Any glitch that might show up will most likely be ignored = by the debounce logic of the game. You could synchronously clock the data = through the EPROMs but this would take a bit of external logic. All in all the EPROMs would be your simplest solution if you have an = EPROM programmer. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 11:16:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:14:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:13:58 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: CAT Box Project Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Hey all, I took a look at the schematics for the CAT box, and the most feasable solution to me seems like a 4-chip solution for the logic PCB: 1 6502 1 6532 1 ROM 1 PLD for all the rest (maybe 2) I'm wondering just how available the 6502 and 6532s are. I know of a cheap source for 6532s (Well, he had plenty of them a couple of months ago...) but my source for cheap 6502s dried up. I'm not worried about the ROM or PLD. Joe From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 11:19:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:18:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:18:16 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: CAT Box Project Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) I need a bunch of 6532's right now to fix some QBert sound boards. Could you post the source? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 11:45:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:43:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:44:22 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: AVG ASIC... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill I printed out my AVG ASIC replacement design file and brought it with me. :-) So... What's different... Open up Jess' avg_controller/schematic.gif from the address posted yesterdat and follow along. Basically the only real change is the width of the address bus. Instead of everything being 12 bits wide it's 14. Looking at the clock input to the stack pointer (K4 in the schematic on Jess' page) the ls08, ls32, and '74 are not included in the actual ASIC. (So the input to CK is just "/strobe1".) The DMAPUSH and DMALD (push and pop) are handled a bit differently opcode information is brought in from the state machine with strobe signals and are used to internally generate /GW and /GR for the '670s. Increment for the counter array is generated internally too. The buffers are more like ls244's since you have 14 bit wide data instead of the 12 bits that fir nicely on two '367s. Soooooo... One macrocell for each bit of stack: 14 * 4 = 56 One macrocell for each bit of vram address generator: 14 * 1 = 14 One macrocell for each bit of stack pointer: 2 * 1 = 2 Buffers should be free with each macrocell. Might need one or two more for the combinational stuff, but I think it'd probably fit in each macrocell above... So the total is around 72-74 macrocells. Distressingly close to the cheaper 64 macrocell devices (missed if by *that* much... *sigh* :-) but an easy fit into a 128 m-cell CPLD. Hmmmmmm... I already have the Lattice CPLD stuff set up (with in-circuit programming) and a 68pin plcc-> DIP convertor board to do my little vector-generator project. I'll take a look at it tonight. I wonder if there are any 128 macrocell 44pin SSOP CPLD's out there? -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 11:57:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:56:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 11:32:07 -0800 From: John Robertson <"pinball@istar.ca"@istar.ca> Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Simple XY B&W system References: <34B3409D.CC5A9452@istar.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson <"pinball@istar.ca"@istar.ca> John Robertson wrote: > > Yeah, opps, my ftp program crashed, so it might be a day or two untill I > find where the problem is. I really hate DOS/WINDOWS!!! > John :-#(# > > Al Kossow wrote: > > > > XXXX://www.flippers.com/hoei-xy.jpg wasn't found (wrong address!!) > It's uploading right now...will VERIFY that it is there, so if you see this meesage, go get it! -->> http://www.flippers.com/jpeg/hoei-xy.jpg John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 11:58:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:57:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 11:40:23 -0800 From: John Robertson <"pinball@istar.ca"@istar.ca> Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WTB:SPO-250 IC References: <34B39EA6.20EC@netconx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson <"pinball@istar.ca"@istar.ca> Hmm should have a few of these lying around...what are they worth to folks? perhaps an auction? John :-#?# Todd Miller wrote: > > I thought I'd ask since a mint Zektor surfaced, does anyone have a > extra SPO-250 Orator chip to sell ? The one in the Star Trek set > I just picked up is dead. > -- > Thanks > > Todd > > http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 12:16:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:14:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: CAT Box Project To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:12:40 -0700 (MST) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: from "jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu" at Jan 8, 98 01:13:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <34b541480.73e5@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 334 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Kurt Mahan" > I'm wondering just how available the 6502 and 6532s are. I know > of a cheap source for 6532s (Well, he had plenty of them a couple of > months ago...) but my source for cheap 6502s dried up. I'm not worried > about the ROM or PLD. BG Micro has the 6502s at a "reasonable" price -- dunno about 6532s.. Probably though.. Kurt From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 13:00:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:57:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Audio Reg II board smoking? Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:58:10 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day folks (and Ray), As I converted my Asteroids caberet to play Asteroids Deluxe last night, I swapped the Audio Reg 1 board for an Audio Reg II from a Tempest. That went OK. I heard Asteroids Deluxe's sounds perfectly and happily played it. However, when I swapped back in the Asteroids board, R30, on the Audio Reg II started smoking! (Retesting with the Asteroids Deluxe board and the smoked Audio Reg II showed that there was no damage.) Unfortunately, I didn't have any schematics to Asteroids Deluxe or Tempest available at the time. Any guesses why I'd see this behavior? By the way before I ever put the Audio Reg II board into the cabinet, I did try the Asteroids Deluxe with the Audio Reg 1, and the sound was funny as expected. Also after the resistor smoked and just before I quit, I did retest the Asteroids board to make sure it was OK. It survived. Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - Something else might be wrong, since R6 (or R1) on the Audio Reg 1 board is also smoked. Both Asteroids and Asteroids Deluxe's audio and video work? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 13:21:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:19:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 16:19:02 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: Audio Reg II board smoking? To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-id: <01IS527Z3MRS00VZTH@Eisner.DECUS.Org> Organization: Digital Equipment Computer Users Society X-VMS-To: IN%"vectorlist@spies.com" X-VMS-Cc: BROWN_DU MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Duncan Brown Steve, > However, when I swapped back in the Asteroids board, R30, on the Audio > Reg II started smoking! (Retesting with the Asteroids Deluxe board and > the smoked Audio Reg II showed that there was no damage.) > Unfortunately, I didn't have any schematics to Asteroids Deluxe or > Tempest available at the time. Any guesses why I'd see this behavior? I don't have my schematics memorized yet, but I'm going to take a stab at this as being the infamous "sense resistor problem." Atari overdesigned their supplies and included a feedback loop on +5V (+sense) and ground (-sense), to account for any voltage drop in the wiring harness. Niice idea, but if you look at the circuit and then imagine the normal 5V and ground connections being interrupted for some reason (like, say, the ever-fail Atari board edge connectors), you'll notice that the power and ground can still get to the logic board, and very much want to...but they have to pass through a 1/4W resistor to do it...and they do, with the predictable result. Once you reseat the board and get the supply connections going good again, everything works fine, but now you have an open in the sense circuit because the resistor is fried. Fix your edge connectors, replace the resistors, and you're good for another couple of dozen board remove/insert operations. Duncan From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 14:13:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:11:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <34B54E96.2365@an.hp.com> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 17:09:26 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Defender RAMs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Joel Rosenzweig Hi Clay, A while back, you had a web page that described how to hook up 4164 RAM to Williams games. Do you still have this page up somewhere? I need to install these chips into my Defender, and I didn't have the pinouts of either chip handy, so I thought your how-to guide would be a great resource. And now, of course, when I went to look for it, I couldn't find it anymore. :-( If it's not up anywhere, could you email me the information, if you still have it around? BTW, a while back, I bought a NOS WG HV transformer from Gaymond. I haven't had occasion to use it yet. I thought I was going to need it, before I learned much about WG HV units (i.e. they almost never fail). At any rate, I remember you saying that there are WG look alike HV transformers for this monitor that played a cruel joke on you, because they look the same, or similar, but were not in fact the real McCoy so to speak. How would you tell the difference between the real part, and the incorrect one? I want to make sure that mine is a valid replacement. Thanks for any info! Joel- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 14:22:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:20:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <34B550D1.1F9C@an.hp.com> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 17:18:57 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Defender RAMs References: <34B54E96.2365@an.hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Joel Rosenzweig Joel Rosenzweig wrote: > > Hi Clay, ... Sorry guys. I guess you figured out that I cut n pasted the wrong address into my mailer. Sorry. Joel- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 14:29:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:25:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:25:00 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Defender RAMs Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) I was wondering why clay has been so quiet... Turns out his mail adr changed from "clay" to "clayc" so the mailing list has been bouncing all his mail messages.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 14:48:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:46:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:45:11 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9801081645.ZM6964@calcite> In-Reply-To: aek@ftpbox.mot.com (Al Kossow) "Re: Defender RAMs" (Jan 8, 2:25pm) References: <199801082232.RAA16550@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Defender RAMs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mark Jenison On Jan 8, 2:25pm, Al Kossow wrote: > Subject: Re: Defender RAMs > I was wondering why clay has been so quiet... > Turns out his mail adr changed from "clay" to "clayc" so > the mailing list has been bouncing all his mail messages.. >-- End of excerpt from Al Kossow I also got this trying to access his web page: http://www.wwwpro.com/clay/ File Not Found The requested URL /clay/ was not found on this server. ?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Mark Jenison From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 14:49:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:47:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <199801081454570300.0026CE1D@mail.cris.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 2.30.23 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 14:54:57 -0800 From: "Warren 'Llama' Ernst" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Audio Reg II board smoking? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Warren 'Llama' Ernst" On 1/8/98, at 4:19 PM, Duncan Brown wrote: >Steve, > >> However, when I swapped back in the Asteroids board, R30, on the Audio >> Reg II started smoking! (Retesting with the Asteroids Deluxe board and >> the smoked Audio Reg II showed that there was no damage.) >> Unfortunately, I didn't have any schematics to Asteroids Deluxe or >> Tempest available at the time. Any guesses why I'd see this behavior? > > I don't have my schematics memorized yet, but I'm going to take > a stab at this as being the infamous "sense resistor problem." > > Atari overdesigned their supplies and included a feedback loop on > +5V (+sense) and ground (-sense), to account for any voltage drop > in the wiring harness. Niice idea, but if you look at the circuit > and then imagine the normal 5V and ground connections being > interrupted for some reason (like, say, the ever-fail Atari board > edge connectors), you'll notice that the power and ground can > still get to the logic board, and very much want to...but they > have to pass through a 1/4W resistor to do it...and they do, with > the predictable result. > > Once you reseat the board and get the supply connections going > good again, everything works fine, but now you have an open in the > sense circuit because the resistor is fried. > > Fix your edge connectors, replace the resistors, and you're good > for another couple of dozen board remove/insert operations. > Ah, this would explain why I have a pole position cockpit with two AudioII/Reg boards with friend resistors, yet the game continues to work fine. -Warr ------------------------------+---------------------------------------- Reviewer, "Windows Magazine" | Warren Ernst - warren@techie.com Author, "Using Netscape" | http://www.cris.com/~wernst/ "Internet 1997 Unleashed" (c) | Computer Journalist, Consultant, Author "Netscape 3 Unleashed"(contr) | Graphic Artist, Nerd "Presenting ActiveX" | Que and Sams.Net Publishing | "If it ain't broke, don't break it." ------------------------------+---------------------------------------- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 15:06:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:04:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:56:51 -0700 (MST) From: Anders Knudsen X-Sender: andersk@janeway To: vectorlist@spies.com cc: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: AVG ASIC... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Clay Cowgill wrote: > > So the total is around 72-74 macrocells. Distressingly close to the > cheaper 64 macrocell devices (missed if by *that* much... *sigh* :-) but an > easy fit into a 128 m-cell CPLD. > > Hmmmmmm... I already have the Lattice CPLD stuff set up (with in-circuit > programming) and a 68pin plcc-> DIP convertor board to do my little > vector-generator project. I'll take a look at it tonight. I wonder if > there are any 128 macrocell 44pin SSOP CPLD's out there? > I thought that they also made 96 macrocell 44pin also.?.? At least I know Altera has them. -anders. +------------------------------------------+ | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center +------------------------------------------+ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 15:06:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:04:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199801082156.PAA01448@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Thu, 8 Jan 98 15:57:24 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Audio Reg II board smoking? References: Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Ray Ghanbari You wrote: > G'day folks (and Ray), Not sure how I'm supposed to take this ;-) > However, when I swapped back in the Asteroids board, R30, on the Audio > Reg II started smoking! (Retesting with the Asteroids Deluxe board and > the smoked Audio Reg II showed that there was no damage.) > Unfortunately, I didn't have any schematics to Asteroids Deluxe or > Tempest available at the time. Any guesses why I'd see this behavior? Like Duncan, I don't have the schematics memorized, however, everytime I've seen resistors on A/R boards glow, it was because of a crappy connection at the edge connector. Like Duncan said, the board goes nuts trying to drive 5V and blows itself out. Make sure you have good connections at the A/R board, the pins of the edge connector (they tend to fry on Atari games), and the edge connector of the PCB is clean. Ideally, all your Atari vector games should have the 5V and +sense lines on the wiring harness shorted to one another (I learned this lesson from Rick Schieve). That way, if you have bad contact at the sense or 5V contact, you don't fry your A/R board or game PCB as the game tries to compensate. Instead, the game doesn't work or goes flakey. That is a good sign that you need to clean the contacts on the connector. Hope this helps Ray From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 15:09:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:07:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:08:53 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Defender RAMs Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >I was wondering why clay has been so quiet... >Turns out his mail adr changed from "clay" to "clayc" so >the mailing list has been bouncing all his mail messages.. Now that I think about that, that's weird. At least some of my messages have been getting through somehow since Jess, Joe, Kev, and couple others have been responding. Did the AVG replacement discussions today make it out? -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 15:15:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:13:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:14:24 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Defender RAMs Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >I also got this trying to access his web page: > >http://www.wwwpro.com/clay/ > >File Not Found >The requested URL /clay/ was not found on this server. > >?? Yep, brief info there... My ISP is a college buddy that just sold his company (the one that runs wwwpro.com), so my website is moving to his *new* company. It should be back in a couple days, probably at "e-volve.net". I'll post when I find it's final resting place. ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 15:49:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:47:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:49:19 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Defender RAMs Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >A while back, you had a web page that described how to hook up 4164 RAM >to Williams games. Do you still have this page up somewhere? I need to >install these chips into my Defender, and I didn't have the pinouts of >either chip handy, so I thought your how-to guide would be a great >resource. And now, of course, when I went to look for it, I couldn't >find it anymore. :-( My webpage *should* be back tomorrow at a new address. In the mean-time I think the modification was something like: Bend out pin 1 so it won't go in the socket (or snip it off) Bend out pin 8 so it won't go in the socket (or snip it off, but leave a tab) Solder a little wire from pin 9 to pin 8. You can also do it 256kx1 DRAMs, but I think you need to pull pin 1 high or low. >BTW, a while back, I bought a NOS WG HV transformer from Gaymond. I >haven't had occasion to use it yet. I thought I was going to need it, >before I learned much about WG HV units (i.e. they almost never fail). >At any rate, I remember you saying that there are WG look alike HV >transformers for this monitor that played a cruel joke on you, because >they look the same, or similar, but were not in fact the real McCoy so >to speak. How would you tell the difference between the real part, and >the incorrect one? I want to make sure that mine is a valid >replacement. There will be a part-number sticker on the HV transformer. The "fake" ones carry a different number. Otherwise the only way to tell is to ohm out the pins on the bottom. That info is also on my webpage-- in the "test a WG transformer" page. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 17:01:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:59:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:59:16 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: John's deflection schematic Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) is up on spies now http://www.spies.com/arcade/schematics/hoei-xy.jpg From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 17:09:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:07:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB5C@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:06:16 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" After talking to a couple of people now who are helping me move forward I need to start doing some research on interest. Assume a "Work alike" solution which might not be quite as self contained as the original. Please tell me how many of what from the following you would be interested in. I am not looking for orders but more a rough gauging of interest. Bag o Parts kit This would be: production circuit board(s) Keypad Displays Power supply Interface cables Full parts bag programmed as needed A copy of the original docs. NOT including an enclosure / case ____ @$50 ____ @$100 ____ @$150 ____ @$200 Then I would like to know how important the following are (assuming I told you part #'s and locations to purchase on your own). Reducing the number of things I include in the kit will of course reduce the cost. Power supply included Displays included Keypad included Interface cables Finally I can see two modes for this thing: Original tool case type transportation for field work Bench top type arrangement. Which would you like better? It will probably require some modification for the two different modes (displays, keypads, interfacing, etc.) I prefer bench top myself but want opinions. Basically I am trying to figure out how much of what I need to purchase and what parts to get maximum interest on the things. Plus what the price range of real interest is. At this moment I have done NO pricing of any parts yet. So I am coming up with the above prices out of either. It might be possible for a true "Bare bones" kit to come in at $25. Or a full kit to run $300+. I don't know but I don't want to take up a lot of valuable time for the people involved if it is not going to work out. More details as they come up. David From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 17:13:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:12:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:11:59 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) If you were going to do this, wouldn't it make sense to add a PC parallel port to the thing and get rid of the display altogether? Or, you could squish the whole thing down to fit on an ISA card with a 40 pin cable coming off of it... From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 17:24:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:23:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:24:32 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Clay's webpage Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill ...is up and well again. http://www.e-volve.net/~clay Let me know if anything is broken. I just ftp'd the site over and it *seems* ok. Oh, Joel-- the part number for the "right" WG flyback (as it appears on the part) is on there too... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 20:33:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:31:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:30:59 -0700 (MST) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: from "Al Kossow" at Jan 8, 98 05:11:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <34b5b6130.f87@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 377 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Kurt Mahan" > If you were going to do this, wouldn't it make sense to > add a PC parallel port to the thing and get rid of the > display altogether? Or, you could squish the whole thing > down to fit on an ISA card with a 40 pin cable coming > off of it... This would be cool. It would also be nice to drive a lot of it from the pc itself. (I can help with software if needed..) Kurt From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 20:37:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:35:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 12:05:24 -0800 From: John Robertson <"pinball@istar.ca"@istar.ca> Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: More Star Trek questions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson <"pinball@istar.ca"@istar.ca> Al Kossow wrote: > > "Any suggestions on what I should do for a monitor?" > > unfortunately, you don't have any choice. > the G08 is the only vector monitor fast enough If enough people nag me I will get the four or so GO8's that I have running... Now, the question is, what are they worth to folks? I ask this because if they are worth only $100US I really have more important things to do with my time, however if folks offer, say, $300+US then I would be happy to restore them. $200US and I might consider it, but not likely any rush. I suspect I shall have to get at least one running and put it up for auction to see what happens...the problem with doing this as a business is I have nasty bills (you know, rent, phone, hydro, advertising, etc.) to pay and only a limited amount of work time to make the money to pay them...sometimes I think I should get a real job and make this the hobby... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 20:38:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:37:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 20:06:20 -0800 From: John Robertson <"pinball@istar.ca"@istar.ca> Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson <"pinball@istar.ca"@istar.ca> Al Kossow wrote: > > If you were going to do this, wouldn't it make sense to > add a PC parallel port to the thing and get rid of the > display altogether? Or, you could squish the whole thing > down to fit on an ISA card with a 40 pin cable coming > off of it... Howdy! Some folks don't use IBM compatables (they have more free time as a result). Why not make it a RS-232 then more folks have a chance... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 20:41:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:40:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:40:09 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: More Star Trek questions Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) A late model G08 (the ones that didn't have the current-limit kludges on paddle cards) is certainly worth $300... The problem with a lot of these (as I'm sure you're aware.. ) is that a lot of techs did real butcher job repairs on them. I have two that I should get running, but they are so hacked up that I just look at 'em at put them back on the shelf.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 20:43:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:42:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:42:05 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) pretty scary.. me working at Apple suggesting building an ISA card :-) RS232 would work too.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 22:43:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:42:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB61@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:41:36 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" While this is all fine and good. I am right now looking at what kind of interest I can get on the "Works alike" model 1.0. I have lots of ideas for V 2.0 of the project but first things first we need to get hands on a "Works alike" so we have something to build on. Now I don't relish the idea of having to build 10 of these up by hand but if I don't get any real interest in the 1.0's I might have to. And it will seriously dampen the likely hood of a v 2.0 any time soon. But don't give up hope on the bells and whistles. I am keeping notes and all the "Volunteers" for work like dear old Kurt WILL be hearing from me in the future :) It would be different if I had a CB of my very own that I could really use to build upon. Plus I really need to use one hands on so I can get a feel for what it really does and what it "should" do. I can think of a lot of things but until I can play with it I really can't design for it. So I need to get my v 1.0 working unless someone is going to come forward with one to sell me cheap or lone to me long term while I work on v 2.0. The others working with me on this will of course also be better able to do the 2.0 work if they are able to play with a works alike. Wow, I am starting to sound like a manager fighting feature creep. YUCK.... Time to go back to Code Monkey mode. David > ---------- > From: Kurt Mahan[SMTP:kmahan@novell.com] > Reply To: vectorlist@spies.com > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 1998 9:30 PM > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: Kurt Mahan > Subject: Re: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) > > > If you were going to do this, wouldn't it make sense to > > add a PC parallel port to the thing and get rid of the > > display altogether? Or, you could squish the whole thing > > down to fit on an ISA card with a 40 pin cable coming > > off of it... > > This would be cool. It would also be nice to drive a lot of it from the > pc itself. (I can help with software if needed..) > > Kurt > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 22:48:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:47:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:49:37 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: AVG chip schematics Cc: Clay Cowgill Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 17:46 1/7/98, Clay Cowgill wrote: >(On another somewhat unrelated note-- I might make some of the >PacMan/MsPacMan "custom chip" replacement boards. The VRAM addresser and >Z-80 Sync Bus controller. Those should each fit nicely into a small CPLD. I need 2 or more sets of these! From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 8 23:37:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:35:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 23:34:20 -0800 From: John Robertson <"pinball@istar.ca"@istar.ca> Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) References: <34b5b6130.f87@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson <"pinball@istar.ca"@istar.ca> Kurt Mahan wrote: > > > If you were going to do this, wouldn't it make sense to > > add a PC parallel port to the thing and get rid of the > > display altogether? Or, you could squish the whole thing > > down to fit on an ISA card with a 40 pin cable coming > > off of it... > > This would be cool. It would also be nice to drive a lot of it from the > pc itself. (I can help with software if needed..) > > Kurt This is where it gets rather interesting. The hardware is easy to design for a AT type card, even using TTL level chips, and hte ability to use a 486 to read and evaluate the board under test...look for shorts to ground, shorts to other address/data lines etc, make it a better project than re-inventing the cat box (handy as it is - I use one almost daily) I have been looking at PC based scopes and meters, but THIS I would be interested in. About 15 years ago a company called Polar Electronics LTD. (Guernsey, Channel Islands) devised a neat little device based on the Z-80, that would plug into the CPU socket and do a "search" of the available address space and report back where it "found" RAM/ROM and I/O, based on the type of CPU it was set for. This would work for the Z-80, 6502, 6800, and the 8085. A list of it's capabilities: 1: Rom checksum 2: Test read/write to Ram 3: Print out disassembled Rom 4: read individual location 5: write individual location 6: read a programmed I/O location 7: write a programmed I/O location 8: decode block of ROM and print in HEX or ASCII 9: checks for data buss shorts to Vcc, Gnd, address lines or other data lines 10: printout a memory map Not bad for 1984. Now I did happen to archive the software (on an APPLE II argh) and still have the schematics. Would this help out project along-a PC based CAT BOX? I am interested in working on this project! John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 02:50:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:49:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34B62BC9.5CC@erols.com> Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 05:53:13 -0800 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) References: <34b5b6130.f87@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kev John Robertson wrote: > About 15 years ago a company called Polar Electronics LTD. (Guernsey, > Channel Islands) devised a neat little device based on the Z-80, that > would plug into the CPU socket and do a "search" of the available > address space and report back where it "found" RAM/ROM and I/O, based on > the type of CPU it was set for. This would work for the Z-80, 6502, > 6800, and the 8085. A list of it's capabilities: > 1: Rom checksum > 2: Test read/write to Ram > 3: Print out disassembled Rom > 4: read individual location > 5: write individual location > 6: read a programmed I/O location > 7: write a programmed I/O location > 8: decode block of ROM and print in HEX or ASCII > 9: checks for data buss shorts to Vcc, Gnd, address lines or other data > lines > 10: printout a memory map > Sounds sorta like the Fluke 9000/9010A Microprocessor Troubleshooter series, price one of those today (about $3000). > Not bad for 1984. > Now I did happen to archive the software (on an APPLE II argh) and still > have the schematics. Would this help out project along-a PC based CAT > BOX? Are you saying this thing ran on a Apple II? I'll be pulling my old one out tommorrow if that is the case :-) -- Kev http://www.erols.com/mowerman <- Coin Op Video Game site REMOVE "?" FROM MY E-MAIL Looking for any Pac Man info & a few good PCBs... From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 02:50:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:48:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34B5C375.7641@erols.com> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:28:05 -0800 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kev Al Kossow wrote: > > If you were going to do this, wouldn't it make sense to > add a PC parallel port to the thing and get rid of the > display altogether? Or, you could squish the whole thing > down to fit on an ISA card with a 40 pin cable coming > off of it... I'm with Al on this, why recreate a old piece of test equipment when it should be very simple for the talented minds of this mailing list to create a much more powerful device. -Bigger/better RAM/ROM checker (why limited to 3 eprom sizes?) -Keep the Signature analyzer (need it for the Cinematronics stuff too) -What else can we add? The state machine input/output idea of Als' is interesting. I'm interested but only in a Super Cat Box. -- Kev http://www.erols.com/mowerman <- Coin Op Video Game site REMOVE "?" FROM MY E-MAIL Looking for any Pac Man info & a few good PCBs... From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 08:33:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:31:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:24:43 -0700 (MST) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB61@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> from "David Shoemaker" at Jan 8, 98 10:41:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <34b64f4b0.23dc@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1013 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Kurt Mahan" > While this is all fine and good. I am right now looking at what kind of > interest I can get on the "Works alike" model 1.0. > > I have lots of ideas for V 2.0 of the project but first things first we need > to get hands on a "Works alike" so we have something to build on. Now I > don't relish the idea of having to build 10 of these up by hand but if I > don't get any real interest in the 1.0's I might have to. And it will > seriously dampen the likely hood of a v 2.0 any time soon. I would be interested in a 1.0 model if the price were kept down. I personally would like the "bag-o-parts" version. Or a bare-board version would be ok too (I guess since I finally got around to buying a million of those little drawer assemblies and got my parts organized/labelled.. :) Oh yeah -- and a xerox of the manual. > But don't give up hope on the bells and whistles. I am keeping notes and > all the "Volunteers" for work like dear old Kurt WILL be hearing from me in > the future :) "uh-oh.." Kurt From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 08:47:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:45:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980109090140.00982cf0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 09:01:40 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) In-Reply-To: <34B5C375.7641@erols.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen >Al Kossow wrote: >> >> If you were going to do this, wouldn't it make sense to >> add a PC parallel port to the thing and get rid of the >> display altogether? Or, you could squish the whole thing >> down to fit on an ISA card with a 40 pin cable coming >> off of it... OK. See the light. If you could buy a catbox right now, i.e., they were readily available and not too expensive, you would probably get one, eh? I think it is not a good idea to "redesign" the catbox to a different beast, making it ISA, serial, or PCI, whatever. If the consensus is "we want a more powerful catbox", then actually what people are saying is "we want an ICE". Really that is what we should focus on if it is what people want. So I propose two scenarios: 1. The catbox "dupe". No new features of any kind. 2. A complete redesign. Not just a catbox "improvement". Here I think that an ICE would be the best. Anyone willing to help architect this? It could go as far as being customized to ICE the favorite game processors -- 6502, 6809, Z80, etc. John R: that Apple II thingy sounds very interesting! I would love to see what that is all about. I would definitely dedicate my old Apple II to be used as a game diagnostics tool, if I had the hardware/software you were talking about. -Anders ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 09:05:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:04:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:04:02 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "2. A complete redesign. Not just a catbox "improvement". Here I think that an ICE would be the best. Anyone willing to help architect this? It could go as far as being customized to ICE the favorite game processors -- 6502, 6809, Z80, etc. " I'll take on #2.. It sort of dove tails with something i'm working on at Apple right now. Part of the project i'm working on has a PCI card with a PLX slave bus adapter. I can use a modification of this card to build a 'bus window' card that maps two 64k regions of memory (one for I/O, one for memory) out to a pod that generates I/O or memory access cycles and brings back data / and status signals. Each CPU would require a unique adapter pod to pin out the signals appropriately. Current thoughts for support are 6502/CAT, 6809, Z80, and 8080. The other two could be 8088 for Gottleib games, and 2650 for Meadows games. I could use some help on the state machine designs for the pods (and then there's the software effort..). I'm also wondering if it makes sense to put space for the uP on the pods (which adds a lot of complexity muliplexing the data paths) or just stick with simulation of the CPU. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 09:25:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:24:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 09:22:27 -0800 From: John Robertson <"pinball@istar.ca"@istar.ca> Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) References: <34b5b6130.f87@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> <34B62BC9.5CC@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson <"pinball@istar.ca"@istar.ca> Nope, this unit was self contained, ran on a Z80 cpu. The image of it's eprom is stuck on my APPLE II... John :-#)# Kev wrote: > > John Robertson wrote: > > About 15 years ago a company called Polar Electronics LTD. (Guernsey, > > Channel Islands) devised a neat little device based on the Z-80, that > > would plug into the CPU socket and do a "search" of the available > > address space and report back where it "found" RAM/ROM and I/O, based on > > the type of CPU it was set for. This would work for the Z-80, 6502, > > 6800, and the 8085. A list of it's capabilities: > > 1: Rom checksum > > 2: Test read/write to Ram > > 3: Print out disassembled Rom > > 4: read individual location > > 5: write individual location > > 6: read a programmed I/O location > > 7: write a programmed I/O location > > 8: decode block of ROM and print in HEX or ASCII > > 9: checks for data buss shorts to Vcc, Gnd, address lines or other data > > lines > > 10: printout a memory map > > Sounds sorta like the Fluke 9000/9010A Microprocessor Troubleshooter series, price one > of those today (about $3000). > > > Not bad for 1984. > > Now I did happen to archive the software (on an APPLE II argh) and still > > have the schematics. Would this help out project along-a PC based CAT > > BOX? > > Are you saying this thing ran on a Apple II? I'll be pulling my old one out tommorrow > if that is the case :-) > -- > Kev http://www.erols.com/mowerman <- Coin Op Video Game site > > REMOVE "?" FROM MY E-MAIL > Looking for any Pac Man info & a few good PCBs... -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 10:48:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:44:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <34B66FB3.6288@an.hp.com> Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 13:42:59 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) References: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB5C@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Joel Rosenzweig I'm quite interested in a CAT box look alike. Maybe it's just how things in my lab operate, but usually the simpler projects actually make it out the door, while the designs that suffer from feature creep and major re-engineering efforts do not see the light of day. I think that building a CAT box kit is a great idea. It would provide us with an incredible diagnostic tool as is. It seems that reproducing one should really be the first step. Then, if the need arrises, re-engineering it to do more sophisticated analysis would be great. It just seems that projects like these get started and are doomed because of their inherent complexity combined with the lack of resources to actually complete such a project on our spare time. So, starting with something "simpler" seems to me to be the way to go. And, um, at $1.00/mb, that's my $ 0.0008 worth. :-) Joel- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 11:10:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:07:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:07:37 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "I'm quite interested in a CAT box look alike. Maybe it's just how things in my lab operate, but usually the simpler projects actually make it out the door, while the designs that suffer from feature creep and major re-engineering efforts do not see the light of day." I think there's some middle ground here. The existing design could have some slight changes that could be done transparently (like adding a serial port) and could be cost reduced using 90's components. Getting a work alike down to a single board would make it cheaper than the original too. I think that an updated design could be done pretty quickly... ..and I bet you could do the whole thing for well under $300. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 11:58:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:57:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:57:31 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: 6551 data sheet Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) I just dug around the net and found an on line description of the 6551 ACIA, which should just drop onto the cat box's 6502 bus. That, a 3.6mhz crystal and a max232 will give you an RS232 interface. APPENDIX: 6551 ACIA HARDWARE SPECS (DATA SHEET) C= Commodore Semiconductor Group a division of Commodore Business Machines, Inc. 950 Rittenhouse Road, Nornstown, PA 19400 * 215/666-7950 * TWX 510-660-4168 (July 1987) 6551 ASYNCHRONOUS COMMUNICATION INTERFACE ADAPTER CONCEPT: The 6551 is an Asynchronous Communication Adapter (ACIA) intended to provide for interfacing the 6500/6800 microprocessor families to serial communication data sets and modems. A unique feature is the inclusion of an on-chip programmable baud-rate generator, with a crystal being the only external component required. FEATURES: * On-chip baud-rate generator: 15 programmable baud rates derived from a standard standard 1.8432 MHz external crystal (50 to 19,200 baud) [these rates are doubled in the SwiftLink]. * Programmable interrupt and status register to simplify software design. * Single +5 volt power supply. * Serial echo mode. * False start bit detection. * 8-bit bi-directional data bus for direct communication with the microprocessor. * External 16x clock input for non-standard baud rates (up to 125 Kbaud). * Programmable: word lengths; number of stop bits; and parity-bit generation and detection. * Data set and modem control signals provided. * Parity: (odd, even, none, mark, space). * Full-duplex or half-duplex operation. * 5,6,7 and 8-bit transmission. * 1-MHz, 2-MHz, and 3-MHz operation. ORDER NUMBER MXS 6551 ___ - | | +---- Frequency range | Plain = 1 MHz | A = 2 MHz | B = 3 MHz | +----------- Package Designator C = Ceramic P = Plastic 6551 PIN CONFIGURATION +---------------+ GND --| 1 28 |-- R-/W CS0 --| 2 27 |-- o2 /CS1 --| 3 26 |-- /IRQ /RES --| 4 25 |-- DB7 RxC --| 5 24 |-- DB6 XTAL1 --| 6 23 |-- DB5 XTAL2 --| 7 22 |-- DB4 /RTS --| 8 21 |-- DB3 /CTS --| 9 20 |-- DB2 TxD --| 10 19 |-- DB1 /DTR --| 11 18 |-- DB0 RxD --| 12 17 |-- /DSR RS0 --| 13 16 |-- /DCD RS1 --| 14 15 |-- Vcc +---------------+ BLOCK DIAGRAM +----------+ | TRANSMIT | | CONTROL |<------- CTS +----------+ | v +----------+ +----------+ | TRANSMIT | | TRANSMIT | /|===>| DATA |=========>| SHIFT |-------> TxD || | REGISTER | | REGISTER | || +----------+ +----------+ +---------+ || o2 --->| | || +----------+ +----------+ R-/W --->| SELECT | ||====| STATUS | | INTERRUPT|-------> /IRQ CS0 --->| AND | || | REGISTER |<-------->| LOGIC |<------- /DCD /CS1 --->| CONTROL | || +----------+ +----------+<------- /DSR RS0 --->| LOGIC | || RS1 --->| | || +----------+ +----------+ /RES --->| | ||===>| CONTROL | | BAUD-RATE|<------> RxC +---------+ || | REGISTER | | GENERATOR|<------- XTAL1 || +----------+ +----------+<------- XTAL2 || +---------+ || +----------+ +----------+ DB0 <-->| DATA- | || | RECEIVE | | RECEIVE | ... | BUS |<===||====| DATA |<=========| SHIFT |<---+--- RxD DB7 <-->| BUFFERS | || | REGISTER | | REGISTER | | +---------+ || +----------+ +-----.----+ | || | | || +----------+ +----------+ | LEGEND: \|===>| COMMAND | | RECEIVE | | | REGISTER | | CONTROL |<---+ ===> : 8-bit line +----------+ +----------+ | | ---> : 1-bit line | +--------------------------------> /DTR +-------------------------------------> /RTS MAXIMUM RATINGS ELECTRICAL CHARACTERISTICS POWER DISSIPATION vs TEMPERATURE TIMING CHARACTERISTICS INTERFACE SIGNAL DESCRIPTION /RES (Reset) During system initialization a low on the /RES input will cause internal registers to be cleared. o2 (Input Clock) The input clock is the system o2 clock and is used to trigger all data transfers between the system microprocessor and the 6551. R-/W (Read/Write) The R-/W is generated by the microprocessor and is used to control the direction of data transfers. A high on the R-/W pin allows the processor to read the data supplied by the 6551. A low on the R-/W pin allows a write to the 6551. /IRQ (Interrupt Request) The /IRQ pin is an interrupt signal from the interrupt-control logic. It is an open drain output, permitting several devices to be connected to the common /IRQ microprocessor input. Normally a high level, /IRQ goes low when an interrupt occurs. DB0--DB7 (Data Bus) The DB0--DB7 pins are the eight data lines used for transfer of data between the processor and the 6551. These lines are bi-directional and are normally high-impedance except during Read cycles when selected. CS0, /CS1 (Chip Selects) The two chip-select inputs are normally connected to the processor-address lines either directly or through decoders. The 6551 is selected when CS0 is high and /CS1 is low. RS0, RS1 (Register Selects) The two register-select lines are normally connected to the processor-address lines to allow the processor to select the various 6551 internal registers. The following table indicates the internal register-select coding: RS1 RS0 WRITE READ SL-Addr --- --- ---------------------- --------------------- ------- 0 0 Transmit Data Register Receive Data Register $DE00 0 1 Programmed Reset* Status Register $DE01 1 0 Command Register Command Register $DE02 1 1 Control Register Control Register $DE03 * for programmed reset, data is "don't care". The table shows that only the Command and Control registers are read/write. The Programmed Reset operation does not cause any data transfer, but is used to clear the 6551 registers. The Programmed Reset is slightly different from the Hardware Reset (/RES) and these differences are described in the individual register definitions. ACIA/MODEM INTERFACE SIGNAL DESCRIPTION XTAL1, XTAL2 (Crystal Pins) These pins are normally directly connected to the external crystal (1.8432 MHz) used to derive the various baud rates. Alternatively, an externally generated clock may be used to drive the XTAL1 pin, in which case the XTAL2 pin must float. XTAL1 is the input pin for the transmit clock. TxD (Transmit Data) The TxD output line is used to transfer serial NRZ (non-return-to-zero) data to the modem. The LSB (least-significant bit) of the Transmit Data Register is the first data bit transmitted and the reate of data transmission is determined by the baud rate selected. RxD (Receive Data) The RxD input line is used to transfer serial NRZ data into the ACIA from the modem, LSB first. The receiver data rate is either the programmed baud rate or the rate of an externally generated receiver clock. This selection is made by programming the Control Register. RxC (Receive Clock) The RxC is a bi-directional pin which serves as either the receiver 16x clock input or the receiver 16x clock output. The latter mode results if the internal baud rate generator is selected for receiver data clocking. /RTS (Request to Send) The /RTS output pin is used to control the modem from the processor. The state of the /RTS pin is determined by the contents of the Command Register. /CTS (Clear to Send) The /CTS input pin is used to control the transmitter operation. The enable state is with /CTS low. The transmitter is automatically disabled if /CTS is high. /DTR (Data Terminal Ready) The output pin is used to indicate the status of the 6551 to the modem. A low of /DTR indicates the 6551 is enabled and a high indicates it is disabled. The processor controls this pin via bit 0 of the Command Register. /DSR (Data Set Ready) The /DSR input pin is used to indicate to the 6551 the status of the modem. A low indicates the "ready" state and a high, "not-ready". /DSR is a high- impedance input and must not be a no-connect. If unused, it should be driven high or low, but not switched. Note: If Command Register Bit #0 = 1 and a change of state on /DSR occurs, /IRQ will be set and Status Register Bit #[5] will reflect the new level. The state of /DSR does not affect Transmitter operation [but must be low for the Receiver to operate]. [This statement reflects the SwiftLink implementation]. /DCD (Data Carrier Detect) The /DCD input pin is used to indicate to the 6551 the status of the carrier- detect output of the modem. A low indicates that the modem carrier signal is present and a high, that it is not. /DCD, like /DSR, is a high-impedance input and must not be a no-connect. Note: If Command Register Bit #0 = 1 and a change of state on /DSR occurs, /IRQ will be set and Status Register Bit #[6] will reflect the new level. The state of /DCD does not affect either Transmitter or Receiver operation. INTERNAL ORGANIZATION TRANSMIT AND RECEIVE DATA REGISTERS (SL-Addr: $DE00 / 56832) These registers are used as temporary data storage for the 6551 Transmit and Receive circuits. The Transmit Data Register is characterized as follows: * Bit 0 is the leading bit to be transmitted. * Unused data bits are the high-order bits and are "don't care" for transmission. The Receive Data Register is characterized in a similar fashion: * Bit 0 is the leading bit received. * Unused data bits are the high-order bits and are "0" for the receiver. * Parity bits are not contained in the Receive Data Register, but are stripped off after being used for external parity checking. Parity and all unused high-order bits are "0". Transmit / Receive Data Register +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ | 7 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ | data | The following figure illustrates a single transmitted or received data word, for the example of 8 data bits, parity, and 1 stop bit: "MARK"____ ___________________________________________________"MARK" | | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | P | S . |____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____| start parity stop bit ...data bits... bit bit STATUS REGISTER (SL-Addr: $DE01 / 56833) The Status Register is used to indicate to the processor the status of various 6551 functions and is outlined here: Command Register +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ | 7 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ | irq | dcd | dsr | txr | rxr | ovr | fe | pe | +---+ | 7 | /IRQ*** : cleared by reading status register +---+ -------------------------------------------- 0 No interrupt 1 Interrupt +---+ | 6 | /DCD : non-resetable, indicates /DCD status +---+ -------------------------------------------- 0 /DCD low 1 /DCD high +---+ | 5 | /DSR : non-resetable, indicates /DSR status +---+ -------------------------------------------- 0 /DSR low 1 /DSR high +---+ | 4 | Transmit Data Register Empty: Cleared by write to Tx Data reg +---+ ------------------------------------------------------------- 0 Not empty 1 Empty +---+ | 3 | Receive Data Register Full: Cleared by read from Rx Data reg +---+ ------------------------------------------------------------- 0 Not full 1 Full +---+ | 2 | Overrun*: Self-clearing** +---+ ------------------------- 0 No error 1 Error +---+ | 1 | Framing Error*: Self-clearing** +---+ ------------------------------- 0 No error 1 Error +---+ | 0 | Parity Error*: Self-clearing** +---+ ------------------------------ 0 No error 1 Error Notes: * No interrupt generated for these conditions ** Cleared automatically after a read of RDR and the next error- free receipt of data *** Reading status reg. will clear the /IRQ bit except when transmit intr. enabled 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ | 0 | x | x | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | After Hardware reset +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ | x | x | x | x | x | 0 | x | x | After Software reset +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ COMMAND REGISTER (SL-Addr: $DE02 / 56834) The Command Register is used to control specific Transmit/Receive functions and is shown here: Command Register +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ | 7 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ | parity | echo| tx ctrl | rxi | dtr | +---+---+---+ | 7 | 6 | 5 | PARITY CHECK CONTROLS +---+---+---+ ---------------------- x x 0 parity disabled--no parity bit generated or received 0 0 1 odd parity receiver and transmitter 0 1 1 even parity receiver and transmitter 1 0 1 mark parity transmitted, parity check disabled 1 1 1 space parity transmitted, parity check disabled +---+ | 4 | NORMAL/ECHO MODE FOR RECEIVER +---+ ------------------------------ 0 Normal 1 Echo (bits 2 and 3 must be "0") +---+---+ | 3 | 2 | Tx INTERRUPT RTS LEVEL TRANSMITTER +---+---+ ------------ --------- ------------ 0 0 Disabled High Off 0 1 Enabled Low On 1 0 Disabled Low On 1 1 Disabled Low Transmit BRK +---+ | 1 | RECEIVE INTERRUPT ENABLE +---+ ------------------------- 0 /IRQ interrupt Enabled from bit 3 of Status Register 1 /IRQ interrupt Disabled +---+ | 0 | DATA TERMINAL READY +---+ -------------------- 0 Disable Receiver and all interrupts (/DTR high) 1 Enable Receiver and all interrupts (/DTR low) 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | After Hardware reset +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ | x | x | x | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | After Software reset +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ CONTROL REGISTER (SL-Addr: $DE03 / 56835 / cpm: 0001xxxx) The Control Register is used to select the desired mode for the 6551. The word length, number of stop bits, and clock controls are all determined by the Control Register, which is shown here: Control Register +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ | 7 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ |stops| word len | src | baud rate | +---+ | 7 | STOP BITS +---+ ---------- 0 1 stop bit 1 2 stop bits 1 1 stop bit if word length== 8 bits and parity this allows for 9-bit transmission (8 data bits plus parity) 1 1.5 stop bits if word length== 5 bits and no parity +---+---+ | 6 | 5 | WORD LENGTH +---+---+ ------------ 0 0 8 bits 0 1 7 bits 1 0 6 bits 1 1 5 bits +---+ | 4 | RECEIVER CLOCK SOURCE +---+ ---------- 0 external receiver clock 1 baud rate generator +---+---+---+---+ | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | BAUD RATE GENERATOR +---+---+---+---+ -------------------- 0 0 0 0 16x external clock 0 0 0 1 100 baud 0 0 1 0 150 baud 0 0 1 1 219.84 baud 0 1 0 0 269.16 baud 0 1 0 1 300 baud 0 1 1 0 600 baud 0 1 1 1 1200 baud 1 0 0 0 2400 baud 1 0 0 1 3600 baud 1 0 1 0 4800 baud 1 0 1 1 7200 baud 1 1 0 0 9600 baud 1 1 0 1 14400 baud 1 1 1 0 19200 baud 1 1 1 1 38400 baud 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | After Hardware reset +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ | x | x | x | x | x | x | x | x | After Software reset +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 12:09:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:09:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:09:07 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: cat box disassembly Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) did someone say they have a disassembly of this already? i'm going to run out at lunch and try to find some 6532's If I can get them, and if someone forwards me the disassembly, I'll try to get a serial catbox running this weekend... From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 12:26:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:26:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: AVG chip schematics To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:18:32 -0700 (MST) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: from "Gregg Woodcock" at Jan 9, 98 00:49:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <34b64dd80.2395@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 621 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Kurt Mahan" > >(On another somewhat unrelated note-- I might make some of the > >PacMan/MsPacMan "custom chip" replacement boards. The VRAM addresser and > >Z-80 Sync Bus controller. Those should each fit nicely into a small CPLD. > > I need 2 or more sets of these! *DING* If you can keep the price down I'd take several. Also those special chips on Pole Position (I forget exactly which ones -- but the atari ones that always nuke themselves).. One of the operators I know has several PP sets all with the same problem, and no way to fix them. (I'm just tossing this out to see if anybody else has the same problem..) Kurt From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 15:27:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:23:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980109134230.009fce10@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 13:42:30 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: RE: cat box disassembly In-Reply-To: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB64@red-msg-59.dns.micr osoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 12:31 PM 1/9/98 -0800, Dave wrote: >> did someone say they have a disassembly of this already? >> >"From Anders (andersk@btc.adaptec.com) mail" > >Cool. I just disasembled the bin file and am checking out the code right >now. It looks like the "firmware" rom sits at 6000h. It is not very long. >The code only fills 68Fh bytes (minus the reset and interrupt vectors). I just sent the disassembly to Al. -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 15:27:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:23:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34B69CF4.3612@links.magenta.com> Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 14:56:04 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: cat box disassembly References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Al Kossow wrote: > > did someone say they have a disassembly of this already? > > i'm going to run out at lunch and try to find some 6532's > If I can get them, and if someone forwards me the disassembly, > I'll try to get a serial catbox running this weekend... I will dasm it and put it up on gamearchive in about and hour... it will be at http://www.gamearchive.com/video/manufacturer/atari/vector/tech/cat_box/ jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 15:27:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:23:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34B6AE7E.6A79@links.magenta.com> Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 16:10:54 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vectorlist Subject: CAT box DASM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey CAT Box disasembly and stuff is up now at.. http://www.gamearchive.com/video/manufacturer/atari/vector/tech/cat_box/ -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 15:34:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:34:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:34:23 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: cat box disassembly Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) I'm back.. it took a while to find them but I have a couple of 6532's.. In the long run it might be better to use a VIA and an external SRAM.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 15:45:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:44:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:56:19 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: atari avg asic (again) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Ok, I'm still looking at this... The good news: A 44 pin TQFP does indeed sit inside the footprint of a 40 pin DIP (.6") part. The Lattice ISPLSI1016 is available in the 44 pin TQFP. The Lattice 1016 has 96 registers which are great for that 4 word deep stack. The bad news: The TQFP is $1 more per part. (no biggie) The TQFP has about 28 days lead time. (ehhhh...) The trace width for a TQFP is smaller than the AP Circuits-type (aka, affordable) boardhouses can produce. (damn) The 1016 has 4 inputs and 32 I/O's = 36. The Atari AVG uses 38. (Ahhh, hell.) Lattice is doing something sneaky marketing-wise in that it looks like there are multiple registers per macrocell, so macrocells get eaten with register bits (but not as fast as say a 22V10 type architecture like the 2032 or something). ---- I think I can get around the number of inputs... The best way might be just to take something like a 16R8 (22V10 would be easier) that implements all the misc logic and stack pointer. I can move 7 inputs to that, and have five outputs that go to the CPLD. That saves 2 pins on the CPLD, which should make it fit. BARELY. That still doesn't solve the board fabrication issues. :-( I'm thinking 1016 + 22V10 (or a little less) + a pcb about twice the size of a regular 40 pin dip... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 15:45:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:44:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:52:34 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >2. A complete redesign. Not just a catbox "improvement". Here I think > that an ICE would be the best. Anyone willing to help architect this? > It could go as far as being customized to ICE the favorite game > processors -- 6502, 6809, Z80, etc. Werner Sharp and I were batting this one around a bit about a year ago. Our plan was to just get one of those off-the-shelf ISA I/O cards (something like two 8255's on a card) that gave 48 lines of I/O. We were then going to just make a little "processor pod" that plugged into the CPU socket and bit-banged the processor lines using the MAME CPU emulation cores. The timing wouldn't be right, but you could do quite a bit with it. (As far as exercising stuff on the board.) I was thinking how cool it would be to have a picture of (say...) an Asteroids board on the screen, double click on a RAM chip (running an automatic test) and color "good paths/chips" green and "probably bad paths/chips" red. ;-) (It's kind-of a non-realtime, PC version of a Fluke 9010A, but you could build in more "intiution" about how certain boards worked. So, on a board with multiple banks of RAM that constantly had a bad bit "D3" the software would be smart enough to try a couple things to see if "D3" worked to other locations (ruling out the CPU), and work back through some rules to suggest shorted/open traces of bad buffers.) You could also do the "learn" mode stuff like the Fluke 9010A-- plug in a known good board and turn loose a "profiler" that finds all r/w registers, ROM (with checksums), etc. Next time you have a "bad" board you plug it in and hit "auto test" and it does all the basics for you. Non-trivial project. ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 15:51:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:50:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:50:05 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: CAT Box Project (interest gauge) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Non-trivial project. ;-)" ..yup Since I have a huge pile of Atari game boards to go through now, after buying a bunch from John, a 6502 box has suddenly popped to the top of my 'to do' list. I'll see if I can get this thing built over the weekend. ..still want to build the thing I described in my earlier message too, since I have a bunch of other non-6502 boards I want to try to get running. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 16:27:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:27:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB65@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Cc: "'aek@spies.com'" Subject: RE: cat box disassembly Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:33:49 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" > did someone say they have a disassembly of this already? > > "From Anders (andersk@btc.adaptec.com) mail" > > Cool. I just disasembled the bin file and am checking out the code right > now. It looks like the "firmware" rom sits at 6000h. It is not very long. > The code only fills 68Fh bytes (minus the reset and interrupt vectors). > Now who has a schematic of the catbox they want to cough up??? > > +------------------------------------------+ > | Anders Knudsen > | ASIC Design Engineer > | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center > +------------------------------------------+ > > i'm going to run out at lunch and try to find some 6532's > If I can get them, and if someone forwards me the disassembly, > I'll try to get a serial catbox running this weekend... > > Just so I understand the goal of the CB 1.1 with the serial port and some > software for a PC would replace: > Display > Hex input pad > Mode selection switches > > Do we also want to replace the other readout displays / status > lights? > > Instead of Serial would we perhaps want to go parallel? More i/o's > available along with all those status lines. > > One BIG issue I have with some of the CB+ version ideas is there is no > realistic way to make this a portable device. If we do go along with it I > want it to be serial / parallel or something that will hook up to my > laptop somehow. I don't want to have to lug a PC around with ISA slots > just to test boards. > > David > > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 16:39:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:39:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB66@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Cc: 'aek' Subject: RE: 6551 data sheet Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:35:06 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" But what about availability? True Commodore was a great company but they are effectively dead now. No promises on just how likely we will be to find any of these. David > ---------- > From: aek[SMTP:aek] > Reply To: vectorlist@spies.com > Sent: Friday, January 09, 1998 11:57 AM > To: vectorlist > Cc: aek > Subject: 6551 data sheet > > > I just dug around the net and found an on line description of the > 6551 ACIA, which should just drop onto the cat box's 6502 bus. That, > a 3.6mhz crystal and a max232 will give you an RS232 interface. > > APPENDIX: 6551 ACIA HARDWARE SPECS (DATA SHEET) > > C= Commodore Semiconductor Group > a division of Commodore Business Machines, Inc. > 950 Rittenhouse Road, Nornstown, PA 19400 * 215/666-7950 * TWX > 510-660-4168 > (July 1987) > > 6551 ASYNCHRONOUS COMMUNICATION INTERFACE ADAPTER > > CONCEPT: > > The 6551 is an Asynchronous Communication Adapter (ACIA) intended to > provide > for interfacing the 6500/6800 microprocessor families to serial > communication > data sets and modems. A unique feature is the inclusion of an on-chip > programmable baud-rate generator, with a crystal being the only external > component required. > > FEATURES: > > * On-chip baud-rate generator: 15 programmable baud rates derived from a > standard standard 1.8432 MHz external crystal (50 to 19,200 baud) [these > rates are doubled in the SwiftLink]. > > * Programmable interrupt and status register to simplify software design. > > * Single +5 volt power supply. > > * Serial echo mode. > > * False start bit detection. > > * 8-bit bi-directional data bus for direct communication with the > microprocessor. > > * External 16x clock input for non-standard baud rates (up to 125 Kbaud). > > * Programmable: word lengths; number of stop bits; and parity-bit > generation > and detection. > > * Data set and modem control signals provided. > > * Parity: (odd, even, none, mark, space). > > * Full-duplex or half-duplex operation. > > * 5,6,7 and 8-bit transmission. > > * 1-MHz, 2-MHz, and 3-MHz operation. > > ORDER NUMBER > > MXS 6551 ___ > - | > | +---- Frequency range > | Plain = 1 MHz > | A = 2 MHz > | B = 3 MHz > | > +----------- Package Designator > C = Ceramic > P = Plastic > > 6551 PIN CONFIGURATION > > +---------------+ > GND --| 1 28 |-- R-/W > CS0 --| 2 27 |-- o2 > /CS1 --| 3 26 |-- /IRQ > /RES --| 4 25 |-- DB7 > RxC --| 5 24 |-- DB6 > XTAL1 --| 6 23 |-- DB5 > XTAL2 --| 7 22 |-- DB4 > /RTS --| 8 21 |-- DB3 > /CTS --| 9 20 |-- DB2 > TxD --| 10 19 |-- DB1 > /DTR --| 11 18 |-- DB0 > RxD --| 12 17 |-- /DSR > RS0 --| 13 16 |-- /DCD > RS1 --| 14 15 |-- Vcc > +---------------+ > > BLOCK DIAGRAM +----------+ > | TRANSMIT | > | CONTROL |<------- > CTS > +----------+ > | > v > +----------+ +----------+ > | TRANSMIT | | TRANSMIT | > /|===>| DATA |=========>| SHIFT |-------> > TxD > || | REGISTER | | REGISTER | > || +----------+ +----------+ > +---------+ || > o2 --->| | || +----------+ +----------+ > R-/W --->| SELECT | ||====| STATUS | | INTERRUPT|-------> > /IRQ > CS0 --->| AND | || | REGISTER |<-------->| LOGIC |<------- > /DCD > /CS1 --->| CONTROL | || +----------+ +----------+<------- > /DSR > RS0 --->| LOGIC | || > RS1 --->| | || +----------+ +----------+ > /RES --->| | ||===>| CONTROL | | BAUD-RATE|<------> > RxC > +---------+ || | REGISTER | | GENERATOR|<------- > XTAL1 > || +----------+ +----------+<------- > XTAL2 > || > +---------+ || +----------+ +----------+ > DB0 <-->| DATA- | || | RECEIVE | | RECEIVE | > ... | BUS |<===||====| DATA |<=========| SHIFT |<---+--- > RxD > DB7 <-->| BUFFERS | || | REGISTER | | REGISTER | | > +---------+ || +----------+ +-----.----+ | > || | | > || +----------+ +----------+ | > LEGEND: \|===>| COMMAND | | RECEIVE | | > | REGISTER | | CONTROL |<---+ > ===> : 8-bit line +----------+ +----------+ > | | > ---> : 1-bit line | +--------------------------------> > /DTR > +-------------------------------------> > /RTS > > MAXIMUM RATINGS > > > > ELECTRICAL CHARACTERISTICS > > > > POWER DISSIPATION vs TEMPERATURE > > > > TIMING CHARACTERISTICS > > > > INTERFACE SIGNAL DESCRIPTION > > /RES (Reset) > > During system initialization a low on the /RES input will cause internal > registers to be cleared. > > o2 (Input Clock) > > The input clock is the system o2 clock and is used to trigger all data > transfers between the system microprocessor and the 6551. > > R-/W (Read/Write) > > The R-/W is generated by the microprocessor and is used to control the > direction of data transfers. A high on the R-/W pin allows the processor > to read the data supplied by the 6551. A low on the R-/W pin allows a > write > to the 6551. > > /IRQ (Interrupt Request) > > The /IRQ pin is an interrupt signal from the interrupt-control logic. It > is > an open drain output, permitting several devices to be connected to the > common > /IRQ microprocessor input. Normally a high level, /IRQ goes low when an > interrupt occurs. > > DB0--DB7 (Data Bus) > > The DB0--DB7 pins are the eight data lines used for transfer of data > between > the processor and the 6551. These lines are bi-directional and are > normally > high-impedance except during Read cycles when selected. > > CS0, /CS1 (Chip Selects) > > The two chip-select inputs are normally connected to the processor-address > lines either directly or through decoders. The 6551 is selected when CS0 > is > high and /CS1 is low. > > RS0, RS1 (Register Selects) > > The two register-select lines are normally connected to the > processor-address > lines to allow the processor to select the various 6551 internal > registers. > The following table indicates the internal register-select coding: > > RS1 RS0 WRITE READ SL-Addr > --- --- ---------------------- --------------------- ------- > 0 0 Transmit Data Register Receive Data Register $DE00 > 0 1 Programmed Reset* Status Register $DE01 > 1 0 Command Register Command Register $DE02 > 1 1 Control Register Control Register $DE03 > > * for programmed reset, data is "don't care". > > The table shows that only the Command and Control registers are > read/write. > The Programmed Reset operation does not cause any data transfer, but is > used > to clear the 6551 registers. The Programmed Reset is slightly different > from > the Hardware Reset (/RES) and these differences are described in the > individual register definitions. > > ACIA/MODEM INTERFACE SIGNAL DESCRIPTION > > XTAL1, XTAL2 (Crystal Pins) > > These pins are normally directly connected to the external crystal (1.8432 > MHz) used to derive the various baud rates. Alternatively, an externally > generated clock may be used to drive the XTAL1 pin, in which case the > XTAL2 > pin must float. XTAL1 is the input pin for the transmit clock. > > TxD (Transmit Data) > > The TxD output line is used to transfer serial NRZ (non-return-to-zero) > data > to the modem. The LSB (least-significant bit) of the Transmit Data > Register > is the first data bit transmitted and the reate of data transmission is > determined by the baud rate selected. > > RxD (Receive Data) > > The RxD input line is used to transfer serial NRZ data into the ACIA from > the > modem, LSB first. The receiver data rate is either the programmed baud > rate > or the rate of an externally generated receiver clock. This selection is > made > by programming the Control Register. > > RxC (Receive Clock) > > The RxC is a bi-directional pin which serves as either the receiver 16x > clock > input or the receiver 16x clock output. The latter mode results if the > internal baud rate generator is selected for receiver data clocking. > > /RTS (Request to Send) > > The /RTS output pin is used to control the modem from the processor. The > state of the /RTS pin is determined by the contents of the Command > Register. > > /CTS (Clear to Send) > > The /CTS input pin is used to control the transmitter operation. The > enable > state is with /CTS low. The transmitter is automatically disabled if /CTS > is > high. > > /DTR (Data Terminal Ready) > > The output pin is used to indicate the status of the 6551 to the modem. A > low > of /DTR indicates the 6551 is enabled and a high indicates it is disabled. > The processor controls this pin via bit 0 of the Command Register. > > /DSR (Data Set Ready) > > The /DSR input pin is used to indicate to the 6551 the status of the > modem. A > low indicates the "ready" state and a high, "not-ready". /DSR is a high- > impedance input and must not be a no-connect. If unused, it should be > driven > high or low, but not switched. > > Note: If Command Register Bit #0 = 1 and a change of state on /DSR occurs, > /IRQ will be set and Status Register Bit #[5] will reflect the new level. > The > state of /DSR does not affect Transmitter operation [but must be low for > the > Receiver to operate]. [This statement reflects the SwiftLink > implementation]. > > /DCD (Data Carrier Detect) > > The /DCD input pin is used to indicate to the 6551 the status of the > carrier- > detect output of the modem. A low indicates that the modem carrier signal > is > present and a high, that it is not. /DCD, like /DSR, is a high-impedance > input and must not be a no-connect. > > Note: If Command Register Bit #0 = 1 and a change of state on /DSR occurs, > /IRQ will be set and Status Register Bit #[6] will reflect the new level. > The > state of /DCD does not affect either Transmitter or Receiver operation. > > INTERNAL ORGANIZATION > > > > TRANSMIT AND RECEIVE DATA REGISTERS (SL-Addr: $DE00 / 56832) > > These registers are used as temporary data storage for the 6551 Transmit > and > Receive circuits. The Transmit Data Register is characterized as follows: > > * Bit 0 is the leading bit to be transmitted. > > * Unused data bits are the high-order bits and are "don't care" for > transmission. > > The Receive Data Register is characterized in a similar fashion: > > * Bit 0 is the leading bit received. > > * Unused data bits are the high-order bits and are "0" for the receiver. > > * Parity bits are not contained in the Receive Data Register, but are > stripped > off after being used for external parity checking. Parity and all > unused > high-order bits are "0". > > Transmit / Receive Data Register > +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ > | 7 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | > +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ > | data | > > The following figure illustrates a single transmitted or received data > word, for the example of 8 data bits, parity, and 1 stop bit: > > "MARK"____ ___________________________________________________"MARK" > | | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | P | S . > |____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____| > start parity stop > bit ...data bits... bit bit > > > STATUS REGISTER (SL-Addr: $DE01 / 56833) > > The Status Register is used to indicate to the processor the status of > various > 6551 functions and is outlined here: > > Command Register > +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ > | 7 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | > +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ > | irq | dcd | dsr | txr | rxr | ovr | fe | pe | > > +---+ > | 7 | /IRQ*** : cleared by reading status register > +---+ -------------------------------------------- > 0 No interrupt > 1 Interrupt > > +---+ > | 6 | /DCD : non-resetable, indicates /DCD status > +---+ -------------------------------------------- > 0 /DCD low > 1 /DCD high > > +---+ > | 5 | /DSR : non-resetable, indicates /DSR status > +---+ -------------------------------------------- > 0 /DSR low > 1 /DSR high > > +---+ > | 4 | Transmit Data Register Empty: Cleared by write to Tx Data reg > +---+ ------------------------------------------------------------- > 0 Not empty > 1 Empty > > +---+ > | 3 | Receive Data Register Full: Cleared by read from Rx Data reg > +---+ ------------------------------------------------------------- > 0 Not full > 1 Full > > +---+ > | 2 | Overrun*: Self-clearing** > +---+ ------------------------- > 0 No error > 1 Error > > +---+ > | 1 | Framing Error*: Self-clearing** > +---+ ------------------------------- > 0 No error > 1 Error > > +---+ > | 0 | Parity Error*: Self-clearing** > +---+ ------------------------------ > 0 No error > 1 Error > > Notes: * No interrupt generated for these conditions > ** Cleared automatically after a read of RDR and the next error- > free receipt of data > *** Reading status reg. will clear the /IRQ bit except when > transmit intr. enabled > > 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 > +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > | 0 | x | x | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | After Hardware reset > +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > | x | x | x | x | x | 0 | x | x | After Software reset > +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > > > COMMAND REGISTER (SL-Addr: $DE02 / 56834) > > The Command Register is used to control specific Transmit/Receive > functions > and is shown here: > > Command Register > +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ > | 7 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | > +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ > | parity | echo| tx ctrl | rxi | dtr | > > +---+---+---+ > | 7 | 6 | 5 | PARITY CHECK CONTROLS > +---+---+---+ ---------------------- > x x 0 parity disabled--no parity bit generated or received > 0 0 1 odd parity receiver and transmitter > 0 1 1 even parity receiver and transmitter > 1 0 1 mark parity transmitted, parity check disabled > 1 1 1 space parity transmitted, parity check disabled > > +---+ > | 4 | NORMAL/ECHO MODE FOR RECEIVER > +---+ ------------------------------ > 0 Normal > 1 Echo (bits 2 and 3 must be "0") > > +---+---+ > | 3 | 2 | Tx INTERRUPT RTS LEVEL TRANSMITTER > +---+---+ ------------ --------- ------------ > 0 0 Disabled High Off > 0 1 Enabled Low On > 1 0 Disabled Low On > 1 1 Disabled Low Transmit BRK > > +---+ > | 1 | RECEIVE INTERRUPT ENABLE > +---+ ------------------------- > 0 /IRQ interrupt Enabled from bit 3 of Status Register > 1 /IRQ interrupt Disabled > > +---+ > | 0 | DATA TERMINAL READY > +---+ -------------------- > 0 Disable Receiver and all interrupts (/DTR high) > 1 Enable Receiver and all interrupts (/DTR low) > > 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 > +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | After Hardware reset > +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > | x | x | x | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | After Software reset > +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > > > CONTROL REGISTER (SL-Addr: $DE03 / 56835 / cpm: 0001xxxx) > > The Control Register is used to select the desired mode for the 6551. The > word length, number of stop bits, and clock controls are all determined > by the Control Register, which is shown here: > > Control Register > +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ > | 7 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | > +-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+ > |stops| word len | src | baud rate | > > +---+ > | 7 | STOP BITS > +---+ ---------- > 0 1 stop bit > 1 2 stop bits > 1 1 stop bit if word length== 8 bits and parity > this allows for 9-bit transmission (8 data bits plus parity) > 1 1.5 stop bits if word length== 5 bits and no parity > > +---+---+ > | 6 | 5 | WORD LENGTH > +---+---+ ------------ > 0 0 8 bits > 0 1 7 bits > 1 0 6 bits > 1 1 5 bits > > +---+ > | 4 | RECEIVER CLOCK SOURCE > +---+ ---------- > 0 external receiver clock > 1 baud rate generator > > +---+---+---+---+ > | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | BAUD RATE GENERATOR > +---+---+---+---+ -------------------- > 0 0 0 0 16x external clock > 0 0 0 1 100 baud > 0 0 1 0 150 baud > 0 0 1 1 219.84 baud > 0 1 0 0 269.16 baud > 0 1 0 1 300 baud > 0 1 1 0 600 baud > 0 1 1 1 1200 baud > 1 0 0 0 2400 baud > 1 0 0 1 3600 baud > 1 0 1 0 4800 baud > 1 0 1 1 7200 baud > 1 1 0 0 9600 baud > 1 1 0 1 14400 baud > 1 1 1 0 19200 baud > 1 1 1 1 38400 baud > > 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 > +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | After Hardware reset > +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > | x | x | x | x | x | x | x | x | After Software reset > +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 16:49:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:48:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:48:50 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: 65xx availablility Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "But what about availability? True Commodore was a great company but they are effectively dead now. No promises on just how likely we will be to find any of these." If I had the time, I'd find a microcontroller that was close enough to the 65xx bus timing and do the whole thing in a single part. You could probably do a whole CAT box in a 68HC11 and you wouldn't have the problem of trying to find out of production parts like 6551's or 6532's at all. All I was saying was that there was a three chip solution to adding a serial port to the existing design.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 17:01:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:01:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:02:29 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: 65xx availablility Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >"But what about availability? True Commodore was a great company but they >are effectively dead now. No promises on just how likely we will be to find >any of these." I was flipping through the Jameco catalog and they still have a large assortment of Commodore parts. I dunno quantities, but they can tell you what's in stock over the phone. (Worst case, cut that number in half and pretend that's all that are left in the world, see if it's worrysome or not. :-) Jameco 800-831-4242 Commodore/6000 series 6502 3.25 65c02 4.95 6522 3.25 6551 2.95 65c51 3.95 6551a 3.75 -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 17:06:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:06:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:06:14 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 65xx availablility Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "65c02 4.95 6522 3.25 6551 2.95 " Apple used 6522's and 6551's as well.. The hard part (for me :-) to find is 6532's.. Like I said in my posting earlier, you could probably use the 6522 and an external ram just as well. Does anyone know off hand if there was a programming difference between the 6502 and 65C02? I've tried substituting C02's for 02's in some games, and have had problems getting them to work.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 17:43:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:42:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 65xx availablility Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:44:22 GMT Message-ID: <34b9d099.87342554@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:06:14 -0800 (PST), aek (Al Kossow) wrote: >"65c02 4.95 >6522 3.25 >6551 2.95 >" > >Apple used 6522's and 6551's as well.. >The hard part (for me :-) to find is 6532's.. >Like I said in my posting earlier, you could=20 >probably use the 6522 and an external ram >just as well. > >Does anyone know off hand if there was a=20 >programming difference between the 6502 and >65C02? I've tried substituting C02's for >02's in some games, and have had problems >getting them to work.. I don't know off hand what it was, but there WAS some differences in = programming between the 6502 and the 65C02, enough to mess up some programs. Commodore might not exist, but for embedded systems the 6502 is still = going strong. I have a Franklin spell checking calculator that I was given 3 = years ago and it based on the 6502 processor. I believe there current models = still are. I was told by an engineer out here that current owners of the 6502 = design (western digital I believe) have a VHLD model of the processor that runs = at 100+ mhz. Even though the processor is still very much in use, I'm not so sure of = the support chips (6551). As a side note, the 6551 really sucked! It's = hardware handshaking was implemented with an AND gate. Whenever it's CTS line = went false, it stopped transmitting instantly, right in the middle of the = character that was currently being sent! Pretty worthless design as far as = hardware handshaking goes. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 18:23:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:23:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:24:38 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: 65xx availablility Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >Apple used 6522's and 6551's as well.. >The hard part (for me :-) to find is 6532's.. >Like I said in my posting earlier, you could >probably use the 6522 and an external ram >just as well. Jameco has 6532's too... $3.25 a pop. ($2.95 in 10+) >Does anyone know off hand if there was a >programming difference between the 6502 and >65C02? I've tried substituting C02's for >02's in some games, and have had problems >getting them to work.. I want to say the c02 had 6 extra instructions? On old Atari computers (800's, etc) I believe a chip-swap worked fine. A friend of mine runs a company that built ICE/development systems for the Nintendo for a long time... He says that the c02 had different instructions, but was also different than the Western Design aand GTE versions of the C02. (Bit test and set behaved differently from the WDC/GTE to the Rockwell versions...) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 20:30:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 20:28:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34B7223B.1047@erols.com> Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 23:24:43 -0800 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: cat box disassembly References: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB65@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kev David Shoemaker (RhoTech) wrote: > > > One BIG issue I have with some of the CB+ version ideas is there is no > > realistic way to make this a portable device. If we do go along with it I > > want it to be serial / parallel or something that will hook up to my > > laptop somehow. I don't want to have to lug a PC around with ISA slots > > just to test boards. > > > > David Yes the original CAT BOX is a compact hard shell case with handle but how many people realistically use it in the field to do board repairs? I'm 32 and not in poor physical shape but my days of workin bent over in the back of a video game to fix the CPU are over. I have 2 work benchs in 2 places but only one has a computer and I use that for my Chip burners so my computer is in place already. I also wired up a jig to plug into my chip burner that will read ROM code from a CPU as a 27512 (64K) and that works as a quasi cat box checksum, providing I already have a memory map. I like Al's idea of adding a quick parallel port to an Cat Box, quick & easy but I'm anxious to see the new developments in the ICE areas (I always wanted either a ICE or Fluke 9000). -- Kev http://www.erols.com/mowerman <- Coin Op Video Game site REMOVE "?" FROM MY E-MAIL Looking for any Pac Man info & a few good PCBs... From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 22:12:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:12:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:11:49 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: WG 19k6401 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Hey all, I'm trying to get my Cosmic Chasm up and running, and I noticed that the monitor wasn't working, so when I took a look at it, it didn't look like any Vector Monitor I'd ever seen before. Low and behold, when I took a look at the manual on spies, it says that the game used a 19k6401 (it also said that it could use a G08, but I know this one isn't a G08) So, does anybody have a manual/schematics for this thing? Mine is currently broken :( There's no monitor information other than the little paragraph saying which monitor it is, and saying that it takes 100 VAC power input in the manual that is up on spies. Joe From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 22:21:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:21:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:21:02 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) Could you describe it any better? Does it have a heat sink assembly like a G08? The later rev G08's didn't have the current limiting kludge towers on molex connectors sticking up from the main deflection board. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 23:06:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:06:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:05:32 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Al Kossow wrote: > Could you describe it any better? Does it have a heat sink > assembly like a G08? The later rev G08's didn't have the > current limiting kludge towers on molex connectors sticking > up from the main deflection board. > Actually, the more I look at it, the more it does look like a G08. What threw me is that the deflection board is dark green, and it doesn't have the gobs of glue and frankensteined PCBs hanging off of it. Now that I look at my spare G08s, the "Sprite" fan and deflection transistor assembly gives it away, so I guess it's a later rev. G08. Oh well...I guess it's good news and bad news (Good news becuase I have documentation for it...bad news because it's a G08, and I had thought I'd found something different....) Joe From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 23:30:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:30:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:30:29 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) Congratulations, you have one of the fabled 'late rev' G08's. I think Zonn had a posting here about it a few months back. They put even BIGGER deflection transistors in and integrated the current limiting stuff onto the deflection board. I think he also said it used the higher resolution CRTs like the Ampliphones.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 9 23:42:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:42:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:41:25 GMT Message-ID: <34b725d6.4811086@smtp.zonn.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:30:29 -0800 (PST), aek (Al Kossow) wrote: >Congratulations, you have one of the fabled 'late rev' >G08's. I think Zonn had a posting here about it a few >months back. They put even BIGGER deflection transistors >in and integrated the current limiting stuff onto the >deflection board. I think he also said it used the higher >resolution CRTs like the Ampliphones.. It uses the nice Medium res tubes. Has anyone ever found a schematic to this beast? It would be interesting= to compare the changes mode from the older G08's. -Zonn From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Jan 10 07:54:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:53:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:52:46 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 In-Reply-To: <34b725d6.4811086@smtp.zonn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Zonn wrote: > It uses the nice Medium res tubes. FWIW, if anyone's interested, the tube that's in there is a Rauland 19VNJP22. Slightly different number than the Amplifone tubes (19VLPT22, I think, right? I know the Rauland Amplifone tube number is something completely different) The yoke looks different from other GO8 yokes (duh...different tube) which is another reason why I didn't recognize it at first. > Has anyone ever found a schematic to this beast? It would be interesting to compare the changes > mode from the older G08's. Ditto to that schematic request. Now I need a "late-model" G08 (The Cosmic Chasm manual says it's a G08-805) schematic instead of the 19k6401 schematic that I originally thought I needed :) Joe From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Jan 10 08:36:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 08:36:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: 65xx availablility To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:37:22 -0700 (MST) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: from "Clay Cowgill" at Jan 9, 98 06:24:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <34b7b1d20.31f6@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 585 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Kurt Mahan" > >Apple used 6522's and 6551's as well.. > >The hard part (for me :-) to find is 6532's.. > >Like I said in my posting earlier, you could > >probably use the 6522 and an external ram > >just as well. > > Jameco has 6532's too... $3.25 a pop. ($2.95 in 10+) BG Micro has: 6502's $2.00 6522's $2.70 6532's $2.80 6551's $2.40 BG Micro -- 800-276-2206 Kurt This signature file is temporary until the previous file (currently on free floating metal oxide mixed with disk head fragments) is found on some non-readable backup tape. Kurt Mahan kmahan@novell.com From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Jan 10 10:17:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:17:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34B76724.465C@idt.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:18:44 +0000 From: mayday19 Organization: Preferred Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IDT-v5 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: mayday19 so what game did use the 6401? just Aztarac? all the Cosmic Chasms I have ever heard of have had a G08 in them.. Maybe the 6401 wasnt ready in time to be used in CC. If you dont know what a 6401 looks like, I am pretty sure it uses the same HV cage as a 6101, but the deflection board is redesigned and all the transistors are mounted on black heatsinks which are mounted to the chassis between the HV cage and the deflection board.. I thought it was a drop-in replacement for a 6101. I saw one once and almost bought it, but I let somebody who already had an Aztarac get it. (But I am planning on being an Aztarac owner in the future). :> so what monitor was used in a Ripoff cocktail? was it a 13" 64XX monitor? Jeff From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Jan 10 10:22:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:22:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:22:32 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) I would think late production Sega games would have used them too (Zektor?) From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Jan 10 10:35:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:35:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34B76B61.686B@idt.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:36:49 +0000 From: mayday19 Organization: Preferred Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IDT-v5 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: mayday19 Al Kossow wrote: > > I would think late production Sega games would have used > them too (Zektor?) Zektor was 3rd Sega vector game.. Tac/Scan and Star Trek came out after Zektor and they use G08s. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Jan 10 11:29:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:29:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Phfarmer Message-ID: <38ed811c.34b7cb43@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:25:54 EST To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Video game parts... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Phfarmer Trying to restore a SEGA/Gremlin X-Y Vector Star Trek upright and unsuccessful in locating a 2N4093 JFET transistor for the sound board. You came recommended from mowerman@erols.com . If you can help me out in any way, please email Phfarmer@aol.com. Thanks.... Phil Farmer From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Jan 10 12:21:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:21:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:21:04 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Zektor was 3rd Sega vector game.. Tac/Scan and Star Trek came out after Zektor and they use G08s." Do you know if "Battlestar" was ever released, or was it just a code name for Eliminator? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Jan 10 12:59:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:59:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:57:33 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9801101457.ZM11440@calcite> In-Reply-To: aek@motgate.mot.com (Al Kossow) "Re: WG 19k6401" (Jan 10, 12:21pm) References: <199801102024.PAA25971@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mark Jenison From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Jan 10 13:01:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:01:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:00:26 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9801101500.ZM11466@calcite> In-Reply-To: aek@motgate.mot.com (Al Kossow) "Re: WG 19k6401" (Jan 10, 12:21pm) References: <199801102024.PAA25971@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mark Jenison On Jan 10, 12:21pm, Al Kossow wrote: > Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 > "Zektor was 3rd Sega vector game.. Tac/Scan and Star Trek came out after > Zektor and they use G08s." > > Do you know if "Battlestar" was ever released, or was it just > a code name for Eliminator? Oh my, Al, don't you read the FAQ? ;-) "I have a flyer which promotes Sega X-Y Convert-a-Games that shows another X-Y game called Battle Star. It appears from the screen shots on the flyer that it is NOT a prototype game for Eliminator or Space Fury (the flyer shows a Space Fury being converted to a Battle Star). Even though Space Fury has a Battle star sound board, it is possible Battle Star itself was never released." The newest version of the FAQ will be 1.8 once I update the section on the new Eliminator 4-player flyer I found, and about Lee Bender finding a real Zektor. (and don't even ask me why I'm at work on a Saturday)... ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Jan 10 15:08:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:08:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: "Jeffh" To: Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:10:04 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd1e1c$e2a31ca0$5e2a40d1@jeff> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Jeffh" Anders has a photocopy of the manual for this monitor. It's NOT plug in compatible with the 6101. The connector is different and it runs on higher voltages. The HV unit only gets + (no -) There are also brightness controls, etc. on the deflection board. If you guys want, I'll get this thing scanned in and posted. -jeff jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ -----Original Message----- From: jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Cc: jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Date: Friday, January 09, 1998 11:17 PM Subject: WG 19k6401 > >Hey all, > > I'm trying to get my Cosmic Chasm up and running, and I >noticed that the monitor wasn't working, so when I took a look at >it, it didn't look like any Vector Monitor I'd ever seen before. > > Low and behold, when I took a look at the manual on spies, >it says that the game used a 19k6401 (it also said that it could >use a G08, but I know this one isn't a G08) > > So, does anybody have a manual/schematics for this thing? >Mine is currently broken :( There's no monitor information other >than the little paragraph saying which monitor it is, and saying >that it takes 100 VAC power input in the manual that is up on spies. > >Joe > > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Jan 11 09:43:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:42:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:41:26 -0600 Subject: Data I/O System 19 Message-ID: <19980111.114134.6406.0.gonzothegreat@juno.com> References: <34B76724.465C@idt.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-6 From: gonzothegreat@juno.com (Alan J McCormick) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: gonzothegreat@juno.com (Alan J McCormick) I just picked up a Data I/O System 19. I was interested in the PROM capabilities of this device. I have the MOS pack (which does 2708s up to 2564s) but not the Unipack. What do these go for if you can find them? Thanks Virtu-Al From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Jan 11 10:39:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:38:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:38:54 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Data I/O System 19 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) There are a couple of Unipack II's around here for $35 and a few 29A's with unipacks for between $100 and $200. I don't know if a 19 will support a late model unipack, though. I also have manuals/schematics for this stuff. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Jan 11 14:54:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 14:54:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:56:24 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: Video game parts... Cc: Phfarmer Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 2:25 PM 1/10/98, Phfarmer wrote: >Trying to restore a SEGA/Gremlin X-Y Vector Star Trek upright and unsuccessful >in locating a 2N4093 JFET transistor for the sound board. > >You came recommended from mowerman@erols.com . If you can help me out in any >way, please email Phfarmer@aol.com. I can sell you a non-working sound board that should have tons of good parts on it for $20. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Jan 11 19:46:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:46:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:44:35 -0700 (MST) From: Anders Knudsen X-Sender: andersk@janeway To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 In-Reply-To: <01bd1e1c$e2a31ca0$5e2a40d1@jeff> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Jeffh wrote: > Anders has a photocopy of the manual for this monitor. There is a very nice description of the 9400 series WG vector monitor on Jess's site at: http://www.gamearchive.com/video/manufacturer/ atari/vector/monitors/wg_color/WG6400.txt I have a photocopy of the manual and schematics. They are not great, but readable. If you all want, and Jess is OK with it, I can scan the schematics in and Jess can put them up on his site. -Anders. +------------------------------------------+ | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center +------------------------------------------+ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Jan 11 23:22:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:22:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:21:18 -0800 From: John Robertson <"pinball@istar.ca"@istar.ca> Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Data I/O System 19 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson <"pinball@istar.ca"@istar.ca> Al Kossow wrote: > > There are a couple of Unipack II's around here for $35 and a few > 29A's with unipacks for between $100 and $200. > > I don't know if a 19 will support a late model unipack, though. > > I also have manuals/schematics for this stuff. Hi, Al! I would be interested in one of these models if it supports the Harris 6351! LMK... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Jan 11 23:51:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:51:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:51:12 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Data I/O System 19 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) wow, that's a weird one.. It doesn't show up on any of the DATA I/O sheets, so I guess it's not supported.. how many pins does it have? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 01:26:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 01:26:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <001601bd1f3c$7d44c680$2a0000df@Obie> From: "David Shoemaker" To: Cc: "Mark Shostak" Subject: Re: Battle Zone board problems Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 01:28:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BD1EF9.6DE29DE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BD1EF9.6DE29DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>AVG #1 >>>No vector output (flat line 0 v on X / Y out) (SK on) =20 >>>Watchdog barking >>>With WD disabled still nothing. I borowed a working set of BZ boards so I know I am working with a = known good math box board. =20 I tested my roms and determined that I had a bad one at position = L/M1. Replaceing it removed my watchdog problem in normal operation. =20 Problem I am now having is that I am going in a circle with the = vector generator section of the board. =20 =20 I don't have proper information getting to the DAC's. =20 So I went back to the VG Data shifter section. =20 I am not getting proper DVGx signals into them, I am also not = getting proper latchx signels so I went to the latch / strobe address = decoder at J7 (chip socketed and replaced with new). I then determined I was not getting proper state signals into it. This led me back to the state machine prom. I then noticed that a couple of pins had been cut on the 74LS367 at = H7 (love operators). So I socketed and replaced it. No change. Next I checked the state machine inputs (op 0-2). They don't appear = to be working so I went to the VG data shifter again to see where they = came out. This leads me back to the DVG 4-7 signals. =20 So now I go to the VG Ram / Rom. The roms check out OK. But the AM = signals look fishy. This takes me to the VG Address Selector. The AB = 0-12 signals from the MPU look ok. =20 =20 The AVG signals look fishy though. That takes me to the Drivers H7 = (the same one as above) / F7 which buffer the DVY signals. The DVY = signals in look bad and this takes me full circle back to the VG Data = shifter section which sources those signals. =20 GRRRRRR. =20 So anyone have a good way to debug this section? Or a place to = break the chain so I can start to figure out where what is going wrong? =20 >>>Test switch results in nothing Now when I put the board into self test it give a low tone for about = 5 seconds then resets. This goes on forever. No usefull information = before the reset. =20 Any ideas? Thanks, David ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BD1EF9.6DE29DE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>>AVG=20 #1
>>>No vector output (flat line 0 v on X = / Y out)=20 (SK on)
 
>>>Watchdog=20 barking
>>>With WD=20 disabled still nothing.
I borowed a working set of BZ boards so I know I = am=20 working with a known good math box board.
 
I tested my roms and determined that I had a bad = one at=20 position L/M1.  Replaceing it removed my watchdog problem in = normal=20 operation.
 
Problem I am now having is that I am going in a = circle=20 with the vector generator section of the board. 
 
I don't have proper information getting to the=20 DAC's. 
So I went back to the VG Data shifter = section. =20
I am not getting proper DVGx signals into them, = I am also=20 not getting proper latchx signels so I went to the latch / strobe = address=20 decoder at J7 (chip socketed and replaced with new).
I then determined I was not getting proper state = signals=20 into it.
This led me back to the state machine = prom.
I then noticed that a couple of pins had been = cut on the=20 74LS367 at H7 (love operators). So I socketed and replaced it. No=20 change.
Next I checked the state machine inputs (op = 0-2). =20 They don't appear to be working so I went to the VG data shifter = again to=20 see where they came out.  This leads me back to the DVG 4-7=20 signals.
 
So now I go to the VG Ram / = Rom.  The=20 roms check out OK.  But the AM signals look fishy.  This = takes me=20 to the VG Address Selector.  The AB 0-12 signals from the MPU = look=20 ok. 
 
The AVG signals look fishy = though. =20 That takes me to the Drivers H7 (the same one as above) / F7 which = buffer=20 the DVY signals.  The DVY signals in look bad and this takes me = full=20 circle back to the VG Data shifter section which sources those=20 signals.
 
GRRRRRR.
 
So anyone have a good way to debug this = section?  Or=20 a place to break the chain so I can start to figure out where what = is going=20 wrong?
 
>>>Test switch results in=20 nothing
Now when I put the board into self test it give = a low tone=20 for about 5 seconds then resets.  This goes on forever.  = No=20 usefull information before the reset.
 
Any ideas?  = Thanks,
David
------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BD1EF9.6DE29DE0-- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 10:01:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:58:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:59:49 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >Anders has a photocopy of the manual for this monitor. >It's NOT plug in compatible with the 6101. The connector is different and it >runs on higher voltages. >The HV unit only gets + (no -) >There are also brightness controls, etc. on the deflection board. > >If you guys want, I'll get this thing scanned in and posted. I'd *really* like to see that. *IF* it's mostly similar to a standard WG color XY (close enough to "hack"), AND has G08 slew rates, it would be VERY cool to have for an Atari/Sega multigame cabinet... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 10:02:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:00:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:01:25 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >I have a photocopy of the manual and schematics. They are not great, but >readable. If you all want, and Jess is OK with it, I can scan the >schematics in and Jess can put them up on his site. Please! :-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 11:07:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:06:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:08:08 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: CPLD projects... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Just a little status update. I'm still looking at how to make some new (replacement) Atari AVG ASICs for use on Star Wars, Space Duel, etc. I think I'll actually go ahead and have two prototype's built out of a TTL version of the AVG ASIC. Once I'm sure that design works I'll start eliminating chips by replacing their functions with a CPLD. Once everything is working I'll be able to choose which is a better route. So-- anyone have any input? In particular: ------ Would you prefer a one or two chip solution over a 13 chip solution, even if it was a few dollars more? Are you willing to pay about $30 for a replacement AVG ASIC? If not, what's your limit? ------ The total cost to build either solution (2-chip vs. 13-chip) looks to be within a couple dollars of each other. In theory the 2-chip CPLD version should be more robust, but the TTL version would be user-repairable... I dunno.... Oh, also-- I *think* I built a one-chip replacement for the Pac Man VRAM Addresser board (284) yesterday. Still needs testing. Should be able to sell those for $10-13 each. -Clay Hmmmmm... I'm outta here. Freezing rain an general crappiness outside. ;-) Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 11:13:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:13:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:12:58 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: CPLD projects... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) How much of the board gets covered up by the ttl solution for the AVG? Wouldn't a bigger board have more problems with the board coming loose? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 11:15:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:15:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:16:47 GMT Message-ID: <34bb6a5c.97347012@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:59:49 -0800, Clay Cowgill = wrote: >>Anders has a photocopy of the manual for this monitor. >>It's NOT plug in compatible with the 6101. The connector is different = and it >>runs on higher voltages. >>The HV unit only gets + (no -) >>There are also brightness controls, etc. on the deflection board. >> >>If you guys want, I'll get this thing scanned in and posted. > >I'd *really* like to see that. > >*IF* it's mostly similar to a standard WG color XY (close enough to >"hack"), AND has G08 slew rates, it would be VERY cool to have for an >Atari/Sega multigame cabinet... I also have a copy of the schematics to this monitor. The biggest change= was the doubling up of the output transistor. Each channel now has four = power transistors instead of two. They also increased the +/- voltages to that of those of Sega, which = would lead to a faster slew rate. Other than those changes it is very similar to = the old WG monitor. The high voltage section is slightly modified to run off of = one rail of the +/- 50v, as opposed to across both rails of the +/- 25v = supply. Basically you'd have to go through and change all the (affected) = capacitors to higher voltage ratings, and double up the output transistors to account = for the extra power dissipation (which is a *much* better way of doing it than = adding a big fan - a la Sega) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 11:42:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:41:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:41:56 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Moto 68HC11 EVB now $49 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) Not directly related to vector games, but I noticed over the weekend that Moto is now selling their HC11 evaluation board for $49.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 11:50:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:50:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980112124827.009be990@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:48:27 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Moto 68HC11 EVB now $49 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 11:41 AM 1/12/98 -0800, Al wrote: > >Not directly related to vector games, but I noticed >over the weekend that Moto is now selling their HC11 >evaluation board for $49.. OH! Now see, that is COOL! We used the HC11 EVB at school, and it is a kick butt little device. This is what we should use to implement a "catbox" replacement. The EVB has all the support chips on it already. Has a serial RS232 interface and a nice wire wrap area to connect up the I/Os. I think it might be perfect for the task! Al, where exactly did you see this? On motorola's site? -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 11:58:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:58:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:57:59 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Moto 68HC11 EVB now $49 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Al, where exactly did you see this? On motorola's site? yes, it's on the microcontroller page, also at Hamilton-Avnet's site.. funny you should suggest this as a cat box replacement :-) I'm not sure which EVB they are selling, I think there were two versions. I have the older (?) one, which didn't bring the uP data bus out to a connector. Did the one with a big wire-wrap area do that? Rather than duplicating the existing 6502 design, once I saw the price of the EVB's had dropped, I started working on a 6502 compatible timing state machine to graft onto the EVB. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 11:59:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:59:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:00:43 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: CPLD projects... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >How much of the board gets covered up by the ttl solution for >the AVG? Wouldn't a bigger board have more problems with the >board coming loose? Yep, that too. The PCB for the "two chip" should only be about twice the size of a 40 pin DIP. The 13-chipper is about 3 or 4 times as large (and that's densely populated-- I'd probably take extra hole/inch charges on it)... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 12:09:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:08:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BA7787.4AF2@links.magenta.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:05:27 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: CPLD projects... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Al Kossow wrote: > > How much of the board gets covered up by the ttl solution for > the AVG? Wouldn't a bigger board have more problems with the > board coming loose? that is what Im concerned about the most. Especially since each game puts the ACGC in a different place. It may even hang over the edge on certain games if the TTL PCB is too large. jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 12:15:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:15:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BA78FD.63BD@links.magenta.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:11:41 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Moto 68HC11 EVB now $49 References: <3.0.5.32.19980112124827.009be990@btc.btc.adaptec.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Anders Knudsen wrote: > > At 11:41 AM 1/12/98 -0800, Al wrote: > > > >Not directly related to vector games, but I noticed > >over the weekend that Moto is now selling their HC11 > >evaluation board for $49.. > > OH! Now see, that is COOL! We used the HC11 EVB at school, and it is a kick > butt little device. > This is what we should use to implement a "catbox" replacement. > The EVB has all the support chips on it already. Has a serial RS232 > interface and a nice wire wrap area to connect up the I/Os. > I think it might be perfect for the task! > Yes, this is a very nice little chip! I can convert all the 6502 code into 68xx with a little effort. How much EPROM and RAM does the HC11 on the EVB have? Is it internal or external? -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 12:34:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:34:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Moto 68HC11 EVB now $49 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:35:28 GMT Message-ID: <34bd7df7.102366462@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:41:56 -0800 (PST), aek (Al Kossow) wrote: > >Not directly related to vector games, but I noticed >over the weekend that Moto is now selling their HC11 >evaluation board for $49.. So maybe Motorola is *FINALLY* catching on that they have = competitors????? I'm sure we can thank Microchip for the price reduction on the eval board. The HC11 is a real nice little micro that Motorola has always overcharged= for. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 13:09:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:08:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:08:54 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: CAT box clock source Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) I wanted to ask someone who has used one about this.. To use it, you had to pull the uP out of the game board and jumper the processor clock input to the ph2 clock output? The schematics for two games that I looked at weren't really clear if it were possible to jumper the clocks.. Or, did the clock source vary depending on board type? It looks like it would be possible to tell by pin 6 of the connector (CBCLKDIS) if the CAT box uP clock was internally or externally sourced. Did someone say that they had the manual for the HP 5004? I haven't used signature analysis before for debugging.. Does it just recognize a repeating pattern at a particular node in a circuit, or does it generate a fixed 16 bit value based on some number of input states? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 13:20:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:20:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:19:16 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: CAT box clock source In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Al Kossow wrote: > Did someone say that they had the manual for the > HP 5004? I haven't used signature analysis before > for debugging.. Does it just recognize a repeating > pattern at a particular node in a circuit, or does > it generate a fixed 16 bit value based on some > number of input states? > It just calculates a 16-bit CRC of some data stream. You can get the polynomial from the CAT box schematics. There is a page that has the LFSR on it (4 LS164s, with 3 or 4 XOR gates feeding the input.) I forget exactly which outputs get fed back. There are start and stop inputs to the sig. analyzer which tell it when to start and stop compacting the data. The Cinematronics way to do sig. analysis was to use the exorcisor to keep injecting a fixed stream of data into the CCPU, so that the signatures are always the same. Basically that's what needs to be done for signature analysis -- the CPU needs to be put into some sort of test state, where predictable signatures can be read. Joe From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 13:40:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:40:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:39:15 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9801121539.ZM15448@calcite> In-Reply-To: "Re: CAT box clock source" (Jan 12, 3:19pm) References: <199801122133.QAA24868@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Sega G08 information needed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mark Jenison All, I'd like to add a little more information in the Sega XY FAQ about the G08 monitor. Could someone send me a little synopsys on the difference from version to version of this monitor? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 13:49:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:49:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB6F@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" To: vectorlist, "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Cc: aek Subject: RE: CAT box clock source Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:48:18 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" >From what I remember of the CB documentation on setup. You pull the processor, connect the edge connector to the test point (which just brings most of the uP lines out to the edge of the board). You don't jumper the clock, the appropriate clock was routed to the edge for you. On Battle Zone at least that is the o2 clock. I will scan in the setup section of the CB docs tonight and ftp them to spies. If I get time I will shoot for scanning the entire doc in the next week (a couple pages a day). David > ---------- > From: aek[SMTP:aek] > Reply To: vectorlist@spies.com > Sent: Monday, January 12, 1998 1:08 PM > To: vectorlist > Cc: aek > Subject: CAT box clock source > > > I wanted to ask someone who has used one about this.. > To use it, you had to pull the uP out of the game > board and jumper the processor clock input to the ph2 > clock output? The schematics for two games that I > looked at weren't really clear if it were possible > to jumper the clocks.. Or, did the clock source vary > depending on board type? It looks like it would be > possible to tell by pin 6 of the connector (CBCLKDIS) > if the CAT box uP clock was internally or externally > sourced. > > Did someone say that they had the manual for the > HP 5004? I haven't used signature analysis before > for debugging.. Does it just recognize a repeating > pattern at a particular node in a circuit, or does > it generate a fixed 16 bit value based on some > number of input states? > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 13:51:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:51:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB6F@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" To: vectorlist, "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Cc: aek Subject: RE: CAT box clock source Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:48:18 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" >From what I remember of the CB documentation on setup. You pull the processor, connect the edge connector to the test point (which just brings most of the uP lines out to the edge of the board). You don't jumper the clock, the appropriate clock was routed to the edge for you. On Battle Zone at least that is the o2 clock. I will scan in the setup section of the CB docs tonight and ftp them to spies. If I get time I will shoot for scanning the entire doc in the next week (a couple pages a day). David > ---------- > From: aek[SMTP:aek] > Reply To: vectorlist@spies.com > Sent: Monday, January 12, 1998 1:08 PM > To: vectorlist > Cc: aek > Subject: CAT box clock source > > > I wanted to ask someone who has used one about this.. > To use it, you had to pull the uP out of the game > board and jumper the processor clock input to the ph2 > clock output? The schematics for two games that I > looked at weren't really clear if it were possible > to jumper the clocks.. Or, did the clock source vary > depending on board type? It looks like it would be > possible to tell by pin 6 of the connector (CBCLKDIS) > if the CAT box uP clock was internally or externally > sourced. > > Did someone say that they had the manual for the > HP 5004? I haven't used signature analysis before > for debugging.. Does it just recognize a repeating > pattern at a particular node in a circuit, or does > it generate a fixed 16 bit value based on some > number of input states? > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 15:32:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:32:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980112163017.00a0bea0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:30:17 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Moto 68HC11 EVB now $49 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 11:57 AM 1/12/98 -0800, you wrote: >funny you should suggest this as a cat box replacement :-) > >I'm not sure which EVB they are selling, I think there were >two versions. I have the older (?) one, which didn't bring >the uP data bus out to a connector. Did the one with a big >wire-wrap area do that? > >Rather than duplicating the existing 6502 design, once I >saw the price of the EVB's had dropped, I started working >on a 6502 compatible timing state machine to graft onto >the EVB. Well my evbu is at home, so I will check version etc when I get home and post that info. Here is basically what came in my kit (this is from memory!): * EVBU board with plcc socket, supports the MC68HC11A8, MC68HC11E9, MC68HC711E9, and MC68HC811E2. * 64k byte address space * Came with 2 68HC11s: one with eprom, one without. both have 512 bytes of eeprom 54 bytes low page ram, 8k user ram, and either a monitor program loaded, or blank area for code in eprom (E000h - FFFFh). * Overall debug and evaluation (emulation) control is provided by interaction with an external terminal. * The built-in RS-232C port connects the board with either an external terminal or host computer running a terminal program. * A wire-wrap area is provided for custom interfacing. The wire-wrap hole pattern allows for most DIP wire-wrap sockets, strip sockets, headers, and connectors. * MCU interfacing is accomplished via the MCU I/O port connector, providing easy connection to the outside world. * requires a single +5Vdc power supply and an RS- 232C compatible terminal with cable for operation. * All the books, etc and software to program came in the kit. The eprom version would work well, and new "catbox" code could easily be developed to fit into the 8192 bytes at E000h. I just called Hamilton-Hallmark. The HC11 kit they are selling is the 68HC11/EVBU2, they were very clueless about what that kit actually contained. But if it is anything like mine, it is well worth the $49. Another thing to consider, if this HC11 is a way to go for catbox replacement: this $49 deal is only a promotional deal, that is this is not a price reduction by motorola, but rather an attempt to get some saturation of HC11s out there. I might get one just to have an extra HC11 on hand. -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 15:37:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:37:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01BD1F88.3BC017E0@liv32.tir.com> From: Frank Palazzolo To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Moto 68HC11 EVB now $49 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:30:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Frank Palazzolo I just want to vouch for the usefulness of one of these EVB's. I've got one and I'm thinking of buying another now. If anyone needs technical specs I can look into them here. When I get the time, I plan to prototype something that I hope to eventually control with a PIC, but I'm using the I/O on the HC11 until I'm sure the hardware is working. Actually, it's loosely related to the CAT box discussion and the Vectrex, so I might as well describe it: It will be a programmable hardware emulator, able to A) communicate with a host computer via serial or audio interface B) map RAM into arbitrary regions of a 64K address space. C) drive the bus when necessary to read and write memory. D) Work on multiple busses. (Well, mainly the normal ones and the GI bus used in the Intellivision) The initial design will be geared toward emulating and reading cartridges from old home console units - Atari, Intellivision, Vectrex, Coleco, etc. It could be used to map memory into any system or act a little like a processor, I suppose. My EVB has been used as: An EPROM reader, An EPROM programmer, and to some extent a logic analyzer (sort of). Oh yes, and as an instrumentation controller for an SAE formula car :) Thanks, Frank Palazzolo palazzol@tir.com From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 15:38:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:38:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:38:11 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Moto 68HC11 EVB now $49 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) ..and if someone wanted to to a board, I have about 50 little boards with socketed HC11E1F's on them.. so, does anyone sell a cheap LCD/keypad assembly for people that wanted to use it standalone? ..wonder if they'd drop the price below 49$ if you bought 10 of em :-) From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 15:42:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:42:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:42:21 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: Moto 68HC11 EVB now $49 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Actually, it's loosely related to the CAT box discussion and the Vectrex, so I might as well describe it: It will be a programmable hardware emulator, able to A) communicate with a host computer via serial or audio interface B) map RAM into arbitrary regions of a 64K address space. C) drive the bus when necessary to read and write memory. D) Work on multiple busses. (Well, mainly the normal ones and the GI bus used in the Intellivision) " ..sounds very similar to what I'm working on, for pretty much the same reasons I dug out my Exidy drawings, and the test connector on the Targ/Spectar board is just a copy of the 6502 pinout, so it would be pretty simple to get it working on this as well From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 12 23:49:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:49:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:47:37 -0800 From: John Robertson <"pinball@istar.ca"@istar.ca> Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Data I/O System 19 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson <"pinball@istar.ca"@istar.ca> Al Kossow wrote: > > wow, that's a weird one.. It doesn't show up on any of the > DATA I/O sheets, so I guess it's not supported.. > > how many pins does it have? Hi, Al! Actually, I was wrong, it is made by MMI (not HARRIS) and the part number is 6351. It's an 18 pin 1024 X 4 Prom. Used an unusual programming voltage (27 - 33V) and required 20 - 26V on the data pin to be programmed. The DATA I/O was the only machine tha tI know of that could handle it. I would be using it for programming old Gottlieb pinball proms... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 08:41:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:40:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199801131639.KAA23597@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 10:39:13 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: The ultimate monitor?? Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Ray Ghanbari Check out http://www.mitsubishi-display.com/products/mvp42.html They have a 42" (!) monitor that can handle up to 1280x1024 @ 60Hz refresh (perfect for emulated vector games on a PC), and can sync all the way down to 15.75kHz (perfect for regular resolution games). This is a frieghtening piece of glass. I shudder to think what the price is (If you have to ask... ;-) Ray From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 11:07:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:06:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:08:00 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: laser projector... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Just an "oh-by-the-way"... I was organizing some Circuit Cellar Ink magazines the other day and noticed a write-up on a home-brew laser projector system. (the 12-bit DAC outputs caught my eye...) Anyway, it's nothing shockingly new-- just a couple of galvo's driven as XY deflection from a PC-- but has the usual good-quality Circuit Cellar technical backgrounder with it. (Including some interesting filter and spectral content stuff... Specifically they suggested using an FFT to analyze vector drawings to be displayed and have the PC rework the input vectors slightly to reduce bandwidth requirements of the output. That's a big deal for the galvos, but it probably wouldn't hurt a vector monitor either...) Anyway, the design as presented was good for about 30k vectors per second-- I don't know what they used as a definition for a "vector" though. Even if it's "full deflection" that still only about 500 vectors at 60hz refresh... I dunno. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 11:30:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:30:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BBC071.6FC5@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:28:49 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: The ultimate monitor?? References: <199801131639.KAA23597@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Ray Ghanbari wrote: > > Check out http://www.mitsubishi-display.com/products/mvp42.html > > They have a 42" (!) monitor that can handle up to 1280x1024 @ 60Hz refresh > (perfect for emulated vector games on a PC), and can sync all the way down to > 15.75kHz (perfect for regular resolution games). This is a frieghtening piece > of glass. > > I shudder to think what the price is (If you have to ask... ;-) > > Ray Why, oh why, do people do this? Are they cruel or what? Reminds me of an article that BG (of MS) worte, mentioning his 52" colour LCD screen, and suggested that it "might" be affordable someday... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 11:46:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:46:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199801131945.NAA06056@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: <34BBC071.6FC5@istar.ca> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 13:45:33 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: The ultimate monitor?? References: <199801131639.KAA23597@fermat.mayo.edu> <34BBC071.6FC5@istar.ca> Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Ray Ghanbari You wrote: > Why, oh why, do people do this? Are they cruel or what? > Reminds me of an article that BG (of MS) worte, mentioning his 52" > colour LCD screen, and suggested that it "might" be affordable > someday... Well John, they have 30" displays as well ;-) ;-) Looking ahead, with the Sega/MS arcade/console initative, I think we'll be seeing more and more "PCs" in real arcade games over the next several years. That will definitely drive down the cost of these types of projects. Ray From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 11:53:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:53:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:54:44 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: The ultimate monitor?? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >Check out http://www.mitsubishi-display.com/products/mvp42.html > >They have a 42" (!) monitor that can handle up to 1280x1024 @ 60Hz refresh >(perfect for emulated vector games on a PC), and can sync all the way down to >15.75kHz (perfect for regular resolution games). This is a frieghtening >piece >of glass. Oh, man... I didn't know they went down to 15KHz... There's always a lot of them at tradeshows (CES, MacWorld, etc.). I would have put our return-shipping label on one had I known it'd work on a game. ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 11:55:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:55:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:54:38 -0500 (EST) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist@spies.com cc: Ray Ghanbari Subject: Re: The ultimate monitor?? In-Reply-To: <199801131945.NAA06056@fermat.mayo.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mitchell Rohde > > Well John, they have 30" displays as well ;-) ;-) > > Looking ahead, with the Sega/MS arcade/console initative, I think we'll be > seeing more and more "PCs" in real arcade games over the next several years. > That will definitely drive down the cost of these types of projects. On that note, Intel released a white paper on platforms for arcade machines... I don't have the link handy, but I'm sure all you web-literate individuals can dig it out... Mitch From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 13:25:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:23:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: laser projector... Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:24:26 GMT Message-ID: <34bbdafe.191730785@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:08:00 -0800, Clay Cowgill = wrote: >Just an "oh-by-the-way"... > >I was organizing some Circuit Cellar Ink magazines the other day and >noticed a write-up on a home-brew laser projector system. (the 12-bit = DAC >outputs caught my eye...) Anyway, it's nothing shockingly new-- just a >couple of galvo's driven as XY deflection from a PC-- but has the usual >good-quality Circuit Cellar technical backgrounder with it. > >(Including some interesting filter and spectral content stuff... >Specifically they suggested using an FFT to analyze vector drawings to = be >displayed and have the PC rework the input vectors slightly to reduce >bandwidth requirements of the output. That's a big deal for the galvos, >but it probably wouldn't hurt a vector monitor either...) > >Anyway, the design as presented was good for about 30k vectors per = second-- >I don't know what they used as a definition for a "vector" though. Even= if >it's "full deflection" that still only about 500 vectors at 60hz = refresh... >I dunno. Hey, you only need about 400 small vectors (max for Sundance, typically = only around 200) at 38hz for Cinematronics games! (You build the contraption, I'll write the driver!) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 13:49:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:48:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BBE117.97020610@pobox.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:48:07 -0500 From: Corey Stup X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: laser projector... References: <34bbdafe.191730785@tommy.doctord.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Corey Stup > Hey, you only need about 400 small vectors (max for Sundance, typically only > around 200) at 38hz for Cinematronics games! > > (You build the contraption, I'll write the driver!) The thought of being able to play Tempest on a 12x12 wall has always been a dream of mine. -- Current Collection: Star Wars (U) Tempest (U) Major Havoc (U) Asteroids Deluxe (U) Asteroids (U) Battlezone (U) Omega Race (mini) Black Knight 2000 Al's Garage Band Black Hole Star Race (cocktail) Take Five (cocktail) From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 13:49:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:49:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:50:17 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: laser projector... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >Hey, you only need about 400 small vectors (max for Sundance, typically only >around 200) at 38hz for Cinematronics games! > >(You build the contraption, I'll write the driver!) Hmmmm. Interesting. I was thinking Vectrex since I know I run out of CPU "oomph" around 200 "average" vectors. The only real annoyance is that the design as implemented had no Z blanking. Would be neat. Maybe I'll look up prices on used Galvo's sometime today. ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 14:18:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:17:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: laser projector... To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:21:28 -0700 (MST) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: <34BBE117.97020610@pobox.com> from "Corey Stup" at Jan 13, 98 04:48:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <34bbf6f80.5450@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 887 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Kurt Mahan" > > Hey, you only need about 400 small vectors (max for Sundance, typically only > > around 200) at 38hz for Cinematronics games! > > (You build the contraption, I'll write the driver!) > The thought of being able to play Tempest on a 12x12 wall has always > been a dream of mine. If the laser project works then there is gonna need to be a new sound system done to support total surround sound.. It would also be cool to change things around so that tempest was like the original where the tube spun. You could get seriously sick.. :) I had a friend that worked at Evans & Sutherland -- she showed me what some of the cool total immersion simulators could do -- they can make you sick instantly.. I dreamed of running tempest and asteroids on their supervector genenerator that they used for planetariums.. It would have worked -- just the hardware cost was >500k.. *sigh* Kurt From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 15:03:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:02:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:01:44 -0500 (EST) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Battlezone problem. In-Reply-To: <34bbf6f80.5450@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mitchell Rohde Help! My battlezone was working fine, until one day I turned it on and the vectors were being drawn in wacky places. It seemed to lack Y deflection (most of it, anyway,) and there was lots of jitter... someone suggested that I reseat the chips, clean the sockets, etc... and this didn't fix it. Now I get zilch from the unit. I didn't see squat on the data lines, and I heard a "blip-blip-blip-blip..." from the speaker... the sound of a reset. So I probed the reset circuit output, sure enough.. it's going up and down about two or three times a second. If I press the reset switch on the generator board it pins the thing in reset, but when I release it goes back to the resetting... How does this watchdog circuit work, and has anyone seen this before? What trips the watchdog? Mitch From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 15:23:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:23:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:19:25 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9801131719.ZM19711@calcite> In-Reply-To: Mitchell Rohde "Battlezone problem." (Jan 13, 6:01pm) References: <199801132310.SAA23506@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-Face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Battlezone problem. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mark Jenison On Jan 13, 6:01pm, Mitchell Rohde wrote: > Subject: Battlezone problem. > > Help! > [ snip bad news about Battlezone freaking out ] Welcome to the wonderful world of Battlezone :-) This is usually fixed by the suggestions you mentioned before. The AUX board (or Mathbox board) is usually the culprit, although I've seen the EPROMs on the main board give up their ghost before, too. Reseating chip, resolding the header pins on the interconnect cable, cleaning the edge connectors, etc...ps. Make sure when reseating chips that you haven't folded any pins by accident; I've done this many times. > How does this watchdog circuit work, and has anyone seen this before? > What trips the watchdog? I'm sure the techies of this group can give a more detailed description, but it usually is just a circuit which checks that the program isn't running out of control or outside of the bounds of the program space. It's not so bad on other Atari Vector B&W boards (like Asteroids), but the Aux board throws a whole new wrench in the works. I think there is some Battlezone debugging information somewhere on the web (didn't someone post something to this vectorlist recently?). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 15:27:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:27:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:27:05 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Battlezone problem. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Mitchell Rohde wrote: > Now I get zilch from the unit. I didn't see squat on the data lines, and > I heard a "blip-blip-blip-blip..." from the speaker... the sound of a > reset. So I probed the reset circuit output, sure enough.. it's > going up and down about two or three times a second. If I press the reset > switch on the generator board it pins the thing in reset, but when I > release it goes back to the resetting... > > How does this watchdog circuit work, and has anyone seen this before? > What trips the watchdog? > Hey Mitch, Long time no "see." The watchdog is just a counter that, when it counts to its max. value, triggers the reset. There is an instruction (which could be just a store to a certian location) which clears the watchdog. So, in theory, if the CPU is running properly, it should clear the watchdog timer before it times out. If you've got schematics, there is a WDCLR signal which goes to the RESET line on the counter (which generates the RESET line to the CPU) probe it and see if it's pulsing at all. If it's not, then there is some other CPU problem. There is also a test point on the board labeled WDDIS or something like that. If you ground it with an alligator clip lead it disables the watchdog counter. The theory goes that if it works with the wotchdog disabled, then there is a watchdog problem, else there is a CPU problem. My Lunar Lander didn't work (i.e. stayed in RESET) despite my disabling the watchdog, and it turned out to be a bad watchdog counter, so there's no hard and fast rule.... Good luck.... Joe From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 15:35:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:35:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BBA60B.171C@idt.net> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:36:11 +0000 From: mayday19 Organization: Preferred Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IDT-v5 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: laser projector... References: <34bbf6f80.5450@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: mayday19 Kurt Mahan wrote: > > > > Hey, you only need about 400 small vectors (max for Sundance, typically only > > > around 200) at 38hz for Cinematronics games! > > > (You build the contraption, I'll write the driver!) > > The thought of being able to play Tempest on a 12x12 wall has always > > been a dream of mine. > > If the laser project works then there is gonna need to be a new sound > system done to support total surround sound.. > > It would also be cool to change things around so that tempest was like > the original where the tube spun. You could get seriously sick.. :) > > I had a friend that worked at Evans & Sutherland -- she showed me what > some of the cool total immersion simulators could do -- they can make you > sick instantly.. I dreamed of running tempest and asteroids on their > supervector genenerator that they used for planetariums.. It would have > worked -- just the hardware cost was >500k.. *sigh* I have always wondered that If you could run Tempest on a RGB laser projector would the colors mix correctly? even if the convergence was perfect... I have been to a bunch of the laser shows, but I dont remember ever seeing other colors than RGB and yellow. (most of the show projectors split the beam into these 4 colors). I would assume the colors wont mix to make colors such as purple, cyan, etc. seeing as how they had a separate beam for yellow.. I know I've told this story before, but it relates so I'll tell it again. I had the chance to run Tempest on a 5-watt RGB+Y laser projection platform (the laserist was a BIG tempest fan!). We had the tempest outputs scaled to the right voltage levels through a simple voltage divider and the platform had indefinetely variable 'z' for each channel so it would work fine! and all we had to do was strip out a tempest cabinet and make a 'snake' for the tempest control panel to run out into the theater (it was in an OMNIMAX theater). We never got the chance to finish the project because the laserist decided to drop acid on the 4th of July and his trip lasted 2 days.. he was on probation after that so we had to drop the idea.. the screen would have been 80 ft high and there was 6,000 watt sound system at our disposal.. and you would play the game sitting in the middle of an OMNIMAX theater! It sucked to be that close and to have to scrap the project just because the laserist was a dumbass.. we know it would have projected fine because the galvo's were fast enough to keep up with the game, but I dont know how the screen would have looked. I would think it would have been distorted because of the pincushioning compensation (like when you view Tempest on an O-scope). And we could never figure out if the colors would mix the right way though, so we thought we might as well just try it, now we will never know.. I guess we could have tried asteriods and that would definately have worked fine.. We wanted to run Star Wars (imagine the trench scene on an 80 ft screen!), but figured that would over-tax the galvos.. Jeff From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 15:50:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:49:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB74@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Cc: jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Subject: RE: Battlezone problem. Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:49:10 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" I have been doing lots of BZ work lately, please SOMEBODY come up with some ideas on where I should go next with my problems (as per my last BZ mail). The wd is reset by the ab9 and ab10 lines from the CPU. If those go high (I think) it clears the WD counter. An odd problem I am having is that my ab9 & 10 lines are working in test mode as far as I can tell yet I still get WD bark every 3 or so seconds. But I don't get bark in normal game mode. :( David > ---------- > From: jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu[SMTP:jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu] > Reply To: vectorlist@spies.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 3:27 PM > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu > Subject: Re: Battlezone problem. > > > On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Mitchell Rohde wrote: > > > Now I get zilch from the unit. I didn't see squat on the data lines, > and > > I heard a "blip-blip-blip-blip..." from the speaker... the sound of a > > reset. So I probed the reset circuit output, sure enough.. it's > > going up and down about two or three times a second. If I press the > reset > > switch on the generator board it pins the thing in reset, but when I > > release it goes back to the resetting... > > > > How does this watchdog circuit work, and has anyone seen this before? > > What trips the watchdog? > > > > Hey Mitch, > > Long time no "see." > > The watchdog is just a counter that, when it counts to its max. > value, triggers the reset. There is an instruction (which could be just a > store to a certian location) which clears the watchdog. So, in theory, if > the CPU is running properly, it should clear the watchdog timer before it > times out. > > If you've got schematics, there is a WDCLR signal which goes to > the RESET line on the counter (which generates the RESET line to the CPU) > probe it and see if it's pulsing at all. If it's not, then there is some > other CPU problem. There is also a test point on the board labeled WDDIS > or something like that. If you ground it with an alligator clip lead it > disables the watchdog counter. The theory goes that if it works with the > wotchdog disabled, then there is a watchdog problem, else there is a CPU > problem. My Lunar Lander didn't work (i.e. stayed in RESET) despite my > disabling the watchdog, and it turned out to be a bad watchdog counter, so > there's no hard and fast rule.... > > Good luck.... > > Joe > > > > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 15:52:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:52:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BBFD78.4150@links.magenta.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:49:12 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Battlezone problem. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Mitchell Rohde wrote: > > Help! > > My battlezone was working fine, until one day I turned it on and the > vectors were being drawn in wacky places. It seemed to lack Y deflection > (most of it, anyway,) and there was lots of jitter... > someone suggested that I reseat the chips, clean the sockets, etc... and > this didn't fix it. > > Now I get zilch from the unit. I didn't see squat on the data lines, and > I heard a "blip-blip-blip-blip..." from the speaker... the sound of a > reset. So I probed the reset circuit output, sure enough.. it's > going up and down about two or three times a second. If I press the reset > switch on the generator board it pins the thing in reset, but when I > release it goes back to the resetting... > > How does this watchdog circuit work, and has anyone seen this before? > What trips the watchdog? > > Mitch I would most definitely consider your problem to be in the chips you re-seated since the problem has now changed. If your board has the factory programmed ROM's (instead of EPROM's) then your problem makes even more sense since the pins on the ROM's corroded and become extrememly intermittent. Pull them out one by one and clean them off with some fine steel wool (don't do this over the board or you will curse yourself when it takes you 3 hours to get all the wool bits out of the PCB). Be very careful that you dont' break off the fragile pins either. I would also do this to the IC's on the Aux PCB. Then resolder all the connections of the molex interconnect harness. Hopefully that should do it. I usually spray down the sockets with tuner cleaner so they are a bit lubricated but Im not sure if this is a good idea or not... anyone know?? jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 16:49:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:48:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:49:48 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Anyone seen a Hutron DSI 700 in action? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Like the subject says, have any of you seen or use the Hutron DSI 700? (Hutron makes the "Tracker" which is an in-circuit, power off component tester. It plots a current vs. voltage curve for a component which can be used to determine if it's good or not. Someone a while back on RGVAC posted a "how to make" article for the "guts" of one using a regular o-scope in XY mode for a display...) Anyway, the DSI 700 is really neat looking (from the catalog). It's the same technology (current vs. voltage, in circuit, power off), but interfaces to a PC. This box in-turn connects to the board you want to test by some DIP-clips on your target IC's. Now the neat part. It digitizes the response curves of up to 64 pins at a time and stores the "signature" on the PC. Cool. So you "scan" a known good Star Wars board at a few points (CPU's, DACs, RAM, whatever) and hook up a bad one. The DSI can then simultaneously test a whole bunch of test points and bad "nets" will show up on a pin-by-pin basis. :-) (So a bad driver in a '244 on the address bus will affect the trace of the probes on the CPU and get flagged as "bad".) Kinda like a 9010A, but full analog AND digital test with the power off and/or the device completely dead! Too bad it's $3000. :-( There's GOT to be something we need it for at work... ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 16:54:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:53:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:55:06 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Sega boards (and Huntron again) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill If you want to see the Huntron Tracker-- www.huntron.com (click on the DSI 700). (The DSI 700 is a $3000 add-on to the $1900 Tracker 2000... oops. ;-) Also, we're getting an ultrasonic cleaner for the prototype PCB's we do here at work (should be in tomorrow?), so I'm going to wait to ship the first Sega Multigame boards so I can dunk 'em in the cleaner and get all the flux off 'em first. (actually I just need an excuse to play with the new gizmo, but hey, your kits will look nice and spiffy... :-) I ended up doing a production run of 36 boardsets for the Sega Multigame. (about 8 or 9 extra) They should be in Thursday and I'll start building/testing/shipping after that. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 13 22:47:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:47:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BC5F1F.6058@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:45:51 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Signature Analysing Question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Mark Shostak wrote: > > In message "Signature Analysing Question", jess@magenta.com writes: > > > So, can I even use this beasty to test sig's of the address lines etc? I > > really wanted to use this thing to find bad LS245's when they report bad > > RAM's but I suppose I bought the wrong item? Anyone have a CAT box? > > You can test the '245s w/ the HP easily. Simply read your signatures > on the CPU socket instead of the originating node. If you read a bad > sig, check the originating node to make sure the sig is good there. > If its bad at the EPROM, it'll be bad at the buffer, guaranteed. > > You can also test the 2114s w/ the HP. However, it's much easier to test > them w/ the CAT (sorry, none for sale). To test the RAM you'd need a > special 'F8' ROM (old Apple ][ term) to write the sig patterns into the RAM. > Then you can test them like they were a regular PROM or EPROM. > > Cheers, > Mark Hi, Mark! You can also wire up a special CPU that is locked into "NOP" function, this will generate a nice pattern for SI. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 06:29:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 06:28:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199801141428.JAA05052@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: laser projector... To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:28:04 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <34BBA60B.171C@idt.net> from "mayday19" at Jan 13, 98 05:36:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Paul Kahler > I have always wondered that If you could run Tempest on a RGB laser > projector would the colors mix correctly? even if the convergence was > perfect... I have been to a bunch of the laser shows, but I dont > remember ever seeing other colors than RGB and yellow. (most of the show > projectors split the beam into these 4 colors). I would assume the > colors wont mix to make colors such as purple, cyan, etc. seeing as how > they had a separate beam for yellow.. I recall reading that they can take a "white" laser and pass it through some type of crystal which can act as a band-stop filter. You apply an RF signal to vary the intensity of the stopped color. Anyway, they sell complete RGB systems so you need not worry how it works. Since there is only 1 beam, there is no convergence problem :-) I'll try to find the URL for the place I was looking. Frank P. and I had discussed this but the price was between $1000 and $10,000 depending what you do. -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 06:50:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 06:50:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <34BCD069.70A7@an.hp.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:49:13 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Anyone seen a Hutron DSI 700 in action? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Joel Rosenzweig Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Too bad it's $3000. :-( There's GOT to be something we need it for at > work... ;-) We need to form a Vector Games Club. That way, we can all pitch in to buy the equipment, and can then sign it out and use it. Maybe all of us vectorheads should move to the same town, then we could actually do something like this. ;-) Even though I live in the Boston area, I'd vote for San Francisco. I've always wanted to live in the heart of Silicon Valley. The thought of all those surplus stores so close to each other makes me drool just thinking about it. Plus, the thought that a Wells Gardner color vector monitor might show up as surplus again, (as they once did), provides quite a carrot. :-) I can dream, right? Joel- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 09:11:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:10:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Anyone seen a Hutron DSI 700 in action? Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:10:39 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day folks, I'd be willing to pitch a couple hundred into this fund. Of course, I'm the guy who doesn't have an oscilliscope yet, and I really covet things like this incircuit tester! I've always thought there's alot of potential in organizing folks for large purchase (of test equipment in this case), but it would help if everyone was in the same region. Like if all the serious/tech collectors in the Bay Area each chipped in $100 and then signed any joint test equipment out of Al's house. Oh well, back to your regularly scheduled reality... Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - Back in the Chicago area, not surprisingly, Rick Schieve kinda filled this role of having all the test equipment that could be loaned out. Not surprising since as our AT&T went more towards just software, lots of hardware labs were being gutted and we scavenged plenty of test equipment. No oscilliscopes sadly. >---------- >From: Joel Rosenzweig[SMTP:joel-r@an.hp.com] >Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 6:49 AM >To: vectorlist@spies.com >Cc: Joel Rosenzweig >Subject: Re: Anyone seen a Hutron DSI 700 in action? > >Clay Cowgill wrote: > >> >> Too bad it's $3000. :-( There's GOT to be something we need it for at >> work... ;-) > >We need to form a Vector Games Club. That way, we can all pitch in to >buy the equipment, and can then sign it out and use it. > >Maybe all of us vectorheads should move to the same town, then we could >actually do something like this. ;-) > >Even though I live in the Boston area, I'd vote for San Francisco. I've >always wanted to live in the heart of Silicon Valley. The thought of all >those surplus stores so close to each other makes me drool just thinking >about it. Plus, the thought that a Wells Gardner color vector monitor >might show up as surplus again, (as they once did), provides quite a >carrot. :-) > >I can dream, right? > >Joel- > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 10:05:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:04:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BCFDD8.6870@istar.ca> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:03:04 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Sega boards (and Huntron again) (and BG Micro) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Clay Cowgill wrote: > > If you want to see the Huntron Tracker-- www.huntron.com (click on the DSI 700). > (The DSI 700 is a $3000 add-on to the $1900 Tracker 2000... oops. ;-) > Sheesh, that seems like a fairly simple device. It generates a low current ac signal, switches it through a number of gates, and stores the results. The Huntron 2000 can be replaced with a scope and about $10 in parts. Perhaps the DSI 700 would cost about $100 in parts and stuff. I think reverse engineering on this item would be a snap. Speaking though of interesting software/hardware, has anyone else looked at BG Micro's ( http://www.bgmicro.com ) SOFTLA product? I bought one to try out, and it looks interesting. "Turn your PC into a logic analyzer." "Monitor up to 16 channels simultaniously, with this nufty piece of softwear. Measure time in micro seconds between any tow points." Software $29.95, cable kit $17.90. Requires 286 or faster with a bi-directional parallel port (non bi-directional will only support 8 traces) Well? John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 10:27:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:27:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980114112547.00a159f0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:25:47 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Sega boards (and Huntron again) (and BG Micro) In-Reply-To: <34BCFDD8.6870@istar.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen >Speaking though of interesting software/hardware, has anyone else looked >at BG Micro's ( http://www.bgmicro.com ) SOFTLA product? >I bought one to try out, and it looks interesting. "Turn your PC into a >logic analyzer." "Monitor up to 16 channels simultaniously, with this >nufty piece of softwear. Measure time in micro seconds between any tow >points." Software $29.95, cable kit $17.90. Requires 286 or faster with >a bi-directional parallel port (non bi-directional will only support 8 >traces) >Well? >John :-#)# When you get it...play with it and then give us all a review!!! -anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 10:34:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:34:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:36:21 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Sega boards (and Huntron again) (and BG Micro) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >Sheesh, that seems like a fairly simple device. It generates a low >current ac signal, switches it through a number of gates, and stores the >results. The Huntron 2000 can be replaced with a scope and about $10 in >parts. Perhaps the DSI 700 would cost about $100 in parts and stuff. I >think reverse engineering on this item would be a snap. The one described a while back was just two transformers wired up to be about 3VAC at 60Hz. "Fairly Simple" describes it quite well. It wouldn't be too hard to marry that to a couple channels of A/D with a PC. The Huntron things look like they can control lots of "range" type behavior for testing voltages and I'm sure there are a lot of other bells and whistles. But... If you could make one that was 50% as good for <$100 it would be pretty damn cool. ;-) >Speaking though of interesting software/hardware, has anyone else looked >at BG Micro's ( http://www.bgmicro.com ) SOFTLA product? >I bought one to try out, and it looks interesting. "Turn your PC into a >logic analyzer." "Monitor up to 16 channels simultaniously, with this >nufty piece of softwear. Measure time in micro seconds between any tow >points." Software $29.95, cable kit $17.90. Requires 286 or faster with >a bi-directional parallel port (non bi-directional will only support 8 >traces) That would probably be OK for bringing up home-brew projects. (The price is right!) When I use a logic analyzer I typically want to look at an address range or data and usually a couple other signals to qualify the trigger. The triggering is the big help on an LA, IMHO. If something isn't working and I get frustrated enough I'll just put the LA on it and capture all the addresses and data going over the bus. Pretty easy to see where things are getting stuck that way. They're also REALLY helpful for debugging programmable logic where you have a dozen or two signals coming in that all affect the outputs. 100's of nanosecond resolution works for most all old game boards-- it's nice to have 16 bits for address, 8 bits for data, and a few more bits for WR/RD, etc... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 10:53:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:53:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:52:12 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Bulletproof your WG6100! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen Well I finally got all my shit together and finished up the low voltage retrofit design for the WG6100 color monitors. Just a reminder this retrofit replaces the low voltage power supply on the deflection PCB. I have a quote from a local PCB fab that has very reasonable prices (they actually were a better price than Alberta Printed Circuits (the one Clay uses I think). Anyway, I will place an order if there are people that want this retrofit. FYI: I am not in this to make any money, just to sell enough to break even :-) and have a few LVPCBs for my own games. Here is the deal: The PCB is very "cute": 1" x 2" in size and fits perfectly in the place of the old LV parts. It bulletproofs the LV part of the deflection PCB. So if you get HV runaway, or some deflection short problem, the LV PCB will not be damaged! i.e., never replace your LV parts again! Jeff H is basically my "testimonial" to its functionality. He has had a couple of them running in Star Wars machines that are continually on in a local movie theatre. Just ask him jeffh@diac.com I will sell bare PCBs to you folks since most are knowledgeable and have used a soldering iron before. The PCB has a silkscreen so parts placement should not be a problem. I'll also include some documentation. If people want, I can include a "bag-o-parts", or ship LV PCBs fully assembled. I will let the bare PCBs go for $10 to $6 depending on quantity ordered. A bag-o-parts should run around $7 to $8 for all the parts. Fully assembled will add a small fee (I am guessing most people will want to do it yourself, however I won't be responsible for lack of soldering skills ;-O) So the retrofit should be cheap and it is a one-time replacement for what most of the WG6100 Zanen kit. Let me know asap since I need to get a quantity order in to the fab. The more I order, the cheaper the per cost will be. -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 11:07:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:06:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Bulletproof your WG6100! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:06:40 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day Anders (and everyone else), Given your excellent price, I have no trouble committing to a couple bare PCBs. If you'd give some indication of when the price breaks kick in on individual orders, I think you'd get me and others to up our orders. Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - If you were referring to the total orders from everyone regarding the price break, then my above comment is wrong. Ignore my comment in this case. And make sure to give a "last call" for orders once you have an idea of the minimum size of the total order (and thus the maximum price of bare PCBs). You may find a last minute surge in orders....did Clay see this with his "last call" email for his PCB? >---------- >From: Anders Knudsen[SMTP:Anders_Knudsen@btc.adaptec.com] >Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 10:52 AM >To: vectorlist@spies.com >Cc: Anders Knudsen >Subject: Bulletproof your WG6100! > >Well I finally got all my shit together and finished up the low voltage >retrofit design for the WG6100 color monitors. >Just a reminder this retrofit replaces the low voltage power supply on the >deflection PCB. >I have a quote from a local PCB fab that has very reasonable prices (they >actually were a better price than Alberta Printed Circuits (the one Clay >uses I think). >Anyway, I will place an order if there are people that want this retrofit. >FYI: I am not in this to make any money, just to sell enough to break even >:-) and have a few LVPCBs for my own games. >Here is the deal: >The PCB is very "cute": 1" x 2" in size and fits perfectly in the place of >the old LV parts. >It bulletproofs the LV part of the deflection PCB. So if you get HV >runaway, or some deflection short problem, the LV PCB will not be damaged! >i.e., never replace your LV parts again! >Jeff H is basically my "testimonial" to its functionality. He has had a >couple of them running in Star Wars machines that are continually on in a >local movie theatre. Just ask him jeffh@diac.com >I will sell bare PCBs to you folks since most are knowledgeable and have >used a soldering iron before. The PCB has a silkscreen so parts placement >should not be a problem. I'll also include some documentation. If people >want, I can include a "bag-o-parts", or ship LV PCBs fully assembled. >I will let the bare PCBs go for $10 to $6 depending on quantity ordered. >A bag-o-parts should run around $7 to $8 for all the parts. >Fully assembled will add a small fee (I am guessing most people will want >to do it yourself, however I won't be responsible for lack of soldering >skills ;-O) >So the retrofit should be cheap and it is a one-time replacement for what >most of the WG6100 Zanen kit. >Let me know asap since I need to get a quantity order in to the fab. The >more I order, the cheaper the per cost will be. >-Anders. > > ----------------------------------------- >| Anders Knudsen >| ASIC Design Engineer >| Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center >| anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com >| http://www.adaptec.com > ========================================= > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 11:16:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:15:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BD0E93.7992DE7B@pobox.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:14:27 -0500 From: Corey Stup X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! References: <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Corey Stup > Let me know asap since I need to get a quantity order in to the fab. The > more I order, the cheaper the per cost will be. I'm in it for at least 3 kits - if not 4 or 5. Could I have a copy of the schematic? I'd love to see your design. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 11:22:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:19:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:19:15 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Could I have a copy of the schematic? I'd love to see your design." it's on www.spies.com/arcade/schematics From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 11:24:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:21:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:22:47 GMT Message-ID: <34bd0eb3.270515595@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:52:12 -0700, Anders Knudsen wrote: >Well I finally got all my shit together and finished up the low voltage >retrofit design for the WG6100 color monitors. >Just a reminder this retrofit replaces the low voltage power supply on = the >deflection PCB. >I have a quote from a local PCB fab that has very reasonable prices = (they >actually were a better price than Alberta Printed Circuits (the one Clay >uses I think). >Anyway, I will place an order if there are people that want this = retrofit. >FYI: I am not in this to make any money, just to sell enough to break = even >:-) and have a few LVPCBs for my own games. >Here is the deal: >The PCB is very "cute": 1" x 2" in size and fits perfectly in the place = of >the old LV parts. >It bulletproofs the LV part of the deflection PCB. So if you get HV >runaway, or some deflection short problem, the LV PCB will not be = damaged! >i.e., never replace your LV parts again! Don't think I'm not interested (I am) but the last design you had was not= short circuit proof, have you tried connecting a jumper across the output to = see what happens to those pass transistors? Either way I'm not sure short circuit proof is that big a deal and I'm interested in a few of these even if they're not short proof. I liked the design, and it certainly works in the "spirit" of the = original design in that it replaces a very badly designed "zener" regulator with a= nicely designed IC regulator, and keeps you from having to re-wire the power = transistor sockets (or hack the PCB) which I design I came up with required you to = do. I'm going to want at least 5 of these things, most likely more (I'll have= to go around the garage counting!) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 11:46:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:45:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Message-Id: <9801141944.AA22578@savage.raleigh.ibm.com> Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:44:52 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> from "Anders Knudsen" at Jan 14, 98 11:52:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 411 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: I'm also in for 4 or 5. I'll probably want the parts bags too, so that I won't have to track 'em down... +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John W. Linville To Be, Rather Than To Seem. | | linvjw@vnet.ibm.com I will not torment the emotionally frail... :-) | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 12:35:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:35:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980114133329.00a1f100@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:33:29 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen Well based on the reply I will put the fab order in tomorrow or friday. The turnaround time will be 3 weeks. I will put up a firm price with order form when I have the fab order submitted, and we'll do this the same way Clay handles this. Thanks, -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 12:43:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:43:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:44:30 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Alright Anders! Count me in for 5-10 depending on what your "quantity" price break is. :-) On a related note... I'm still fascinated with the idea of trying to upgrade a WG6100 to WG6400 performance specs. Soooo... National Semiconductor sells the LM317HVH. That's a "high voltage" version of the 317 and as such can regulate from 1.2-57V. (enough to get into the 48V band the WG6400's looking for. ;-) Question for Anders: How much current do the 317/337 on your replacement board need to source? (The reason I ask is that the LM337HVH is a TO-93 and can only source a few hundred mA.) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 12:43:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:43:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BCCF6B.6824@idt.net> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:44:59 +0000 From: mayday19 Organization: Preferred Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IDT-v5 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Color Asteriods Deluxe?! References: <9801141944.AA22578@savage.raleigh.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: mayday19 Hey all, I was talking to a game-dealer friend of mine last night.. he just bought a warehouse out and he said there was an Asteriods Deluxe that looked like nothing he has ever seen before. He said the cabinet was completely different, and it had color vector monitor in it! A color AD!? He is gonna bring it in to look at it in the next few days, but that is what he told me so far.. I hope he was not hallucinating or anything... I know he is not lying 'cause he is one of my best friends.. oh well, I'll post as soon as I find out. Ever heard of ANYTHING like this? Jeff BTW: He also got *5* Major Havocs in the deal.. so if you want a MH let me know. They are all Tempest conversions and none of them have side art (I dont think ANYBODY ever ordered the stickers). From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 12:53:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:53:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:52:10 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9801141452.ZM9635@calcite> In-Reply-To: mayday19 "Color Asteriods Deluxe?!" (Jan 14, 2:44pm) References: <9801141944.AA22578@savage.raleigh.ibm.com> <199801142046.PAA29165@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Color Asteriods Deluxe?! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mark Jenison On Jan 14, 2:44pm, mayday19 wrote: > Subject: Color Asteriods Deluxe?! > Hey all, > I was talking to a game-dealer friend of mine last night.. he just > bought a warehouse out and he said there was an Asteriods Deluxe that > looked like nothing he has ever seen before. He said the cabinet was > completely different, and it had color vector monitor in it! A color > AD!? He is gonna bring it in to look at it in the next few days, but > that is what he told me so far.. > > Ever heard of ANYTHING like this? Yes; it's called "Space Duel" ;-) Ps. or maybe he meant "color raster", it which case it'd be "Blasteroids" ;-) Pss. Or maybe he just saw one "giant asteroid", it which case it'd be called "Eliminator" ;-) Or an AD converted to Star Trek... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Motorola Phone number : (847) 632-6270 Cellular Infrastructure Group Fax number : (847) 632-3963 Arlington Heights, IL http://www.cig.mot.com/~jenison ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 12:55:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:55:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:56:14 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: Bulletproof your WG6100! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > And make sure to give a "last call" for orders once you have >an idea of the minimum size of the total order (and thus the maximum >price of bare PCBs). You may find a last minute surge in orders....did >Clay see this with his "last call" email for his PCB? Kinda. There was a peak, but it was pretty close to my original "interest gauge". The place I need to be careful is making sure I remember to order more than a couple for myself. ;-) Since it's a lot cheaper to order more up front than do another run later on, I generally take my "final call" number and order 120% of that. That way I have a couple for any stragglers, and a couple spares to leave unpopulated as reference boards later on. Also-- as the board complexity goes up you might need a couple extras for manufacturing defects. AP Circuits has been pretty good about getting me good fabs, but without electrical testing on the boards you're never really sure until you try it. (Which is why I like to pre-assemble the more complicated stuff like the Sega Multigame. The multigame averages over 28 holes per inch for components and vias...) Another question for Anders-- is your design 1-layer? (that should help a lot on price...) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 12:55:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:55:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Color Asteriods Deluxe?! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:55:43 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day folks, Not to rain on anyone's parade, but about five years ago someone posted on RGV(A?) that they had a color Asteroids. Turns out it was just an Asteroids with a Star Castle overlay. Unless you have some confidence in your friend's ability (and I'm not trying to slam anyone here), I wouldn't get my hopes up figuring that the color AD turns out to be an overlay or Space Duel. Of course, if it does turn out to be truly a color AD, then I'll start the bidding at $400. I wouldn't want Gaymond to get it for a song! 8^) 8^) 8^) Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - Quite a haul your friend got there! Five MH's!! Did he get any rare Cinematronics or Vectorbeam stuff? >---------- >From: mayday19[SMTP:mayday19@IDT.NET] >Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 6:44 AM >To: vectorlist@spies.com >Cc: mayday19 >Subject: Color Asteriods Deluxe?! > >Hey all, >I was talking to a game-dealer friend of mine last night.. he just >bought a warehouse out and he said there was an Asteriods Deluxe that >looked like nothing he has ever seen before. He said the cabinet was >completely different, and it had color vector monitor in it! A color >AD!? He is gonna bring it in to look at it in the next few days, but >that is what he told me so far.. > >I hope he was not hallucinating or anything... I know he is not lying >'cause he is one of my best friends.. oh well, I'll post as soon as I >find out. > >Ever heard of ANYTHING like this? > >Jeff > >BTW: He also got *5* Major Havocs in the deal.. so if you want a MH let >me know. They are all Tempest conversions and none of them have side art >(I dont think ANYBODY ever ordered the stickers). > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 13:05:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:05:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:04:16 -0500 (EST) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: laser projector... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mitchell Rohde I harassed my pal about a year ago to build a pong game using some laser galvos for a grad control course (he's over at MIT). They built it, and while I didn't see it I guess it came out A-OK!! The prof liked it... One thing, though, was that they were using some reject galvos that originally cost about $3000 each. They were rated at something like 500 Hz originally, but only performed to like 300 Hz.... (I might be wrong on these numbers... it was a couple of years ago). Mitch From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 13:30:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:29:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-CriticalPath-Sent: 14 Jan 1998 21:26:58 GMT Message-ID: <34BD2E23.1721@netconx.net> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:29:07 -0600 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Todd Miller I'd be interested in 4 or so.... -- Thanks Todd http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 13:31:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:31:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:33:17 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Decent little cap tester... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Just some more info for any of you expanding your test gear. I was making an order from Jameco the other day and saw their "BelMerit Capacitance Meter" (#140741) for $59.95... I decided to add it on to the order-- when I called in the price was $49.95 (cool). Anyway, I got it yesterday so I brought it into work with a double-handful of caps and did some A/B tests against the Sencore Model LC77 capacitor/inductor analyzer. Long story short-- although it only measures capacitance it seems to do it very well (esp. compared to the Sencore's $1800 price tag). Accuracy seems better on the pF-nF range (more or less exactly the same answers the Sencore gave there), drift gets a little more pronounced in the uF range, but never more than the tolerance of the caps I tested. Although it doesn't do all the leakage/ESR/dialectric absorbtion tests that the Sencore does it seems to be great for testing if a cap is out of spec or identifying the value of something you're not quite sure about. Good little value for $50. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 13:39:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:39:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980114143824.00953ce0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:38:24 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: RE: Bulletproof your WG6100! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen >Kinda. There was a peak, but it was pretty close to my original "interest >gauge". The place I need to be careful is making sure I remember to order >more than a couple for myself. ;-) Since it's a lot cheaper to order more >up front than do another run later on, I generally take my "final call" >number and order 120% of that. That way I have a couple for any >stragglers, and a couple spares to leave unpopulated as reference boards >later on. Sounds like a good rule of thumb, or is that "rule of Clay" ;-) >Also-- as the board complexity goes up you might need a couple extras for >manufacturing defects. AP Circuits has been pretty good about getting me >good fabs, but without electrical testing on the boards you're never really >sure until you try it. (Which is why I like to pre-assemble the more >complicated stuff like the Sega Multigame. The multigame averages over 28 >holes per inch for components and vias...) So you did not have electrical test done on the sega multigame pcbs? >Another question for Anders-- is your design 1-layer? (that should help a >lot on price...) Yes, this is a single layer board. So the price quote I have is for single layer. Also, the board will have a solder mask on the trace (bottom) side. It adds very little to the cost to add the solder mask, so I am getting that done. The solder mask helps alot when soldering components to the pads. Since it is a single layer board, I will do a quick trace/pad continuity test on each PCB I send to anyone ordering unassembled PCBs. That way, you won't get a bum PCB. -anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 13:45:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:45:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980114144404.009502b0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:44:04 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 12:44 PM 1/14/98 -0800, you wrote: >Alright Anders! > >Count me in for 5-10 depending on what your "quantity" price break is. :-) Tallied in. >On a related note... I'm still fascinated with the idea of trying to >upgrade a WG6100 to WG6400 performance specs. Soooo... Will get to this when I have the LV PCB sent to the fab. >National Semiconductor sells the LM317HVH. That's a "high voltage" version >of the 317 and as such can regulate from 1.2-57V. (enough to get into the >48V band the WG6400's looking for. ;-) Question for Anders: How much >current do the 317/337 on your replacement board need to source? (The >reason I ask is that the LM337HVH is a TO-93 and can only source a few >hundred mA.) I'd have to look at my notes at home for exact numbers, but with a quick back of the envelope calculation, I believe the source current is no more than 100 to 200 mA. Any more than that and I think the pass transistor will source a current high enough to blow the fuses. i.e., -- it is possible that my current PCB will work with the HV versions of the LM regulators. I'll take a closer look at it after I have finished the fab order. -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 13:52:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:52:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:53:36 GMT Message-ID: <34be3078.279162416@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:44:30 -0800, Clay Cowgill = wrote: >Alright Anders! > >Count me in for 5-10 depending on what your "quantity" price break is. = :-) > >On a related note... I'm still fascinated with the idea of trying to >upgrade a WG6100 to WG6400 performance specs. Soooo... > >National Semiconductor sells the LM317HVH. That's a "high voltage" = version >of the 317 and as such can regulate from 1.2-57V. (enough to get into = the >48V band the WG6400's looking for. ;-) Question for Anders: How much >current do the 317/337 on your replacement board need to source? (The >reason I ask is that the LM337HVH is a TO-93 and can only source a few >hundred mA.) On Anders design the current sourced by the LM317's is dependent upon the= gain of the output pass transistors. Aren't they around 30 HFE? So that = would mean for 5 amps max current the LM317 would need to source 166.6 ma. And = since this only at peak max, the LM317s should be just fine. One thing to be aware of is the voltage ratings on these things are only = the maximum input/output differential. If you plan on placing 57 volts on = the input of the LM317 and regulating it down to 1.2 volts, your going to need an LM317HVH. But if you plan on an input voltage of 55 volts, and then = regulating it to 48v then you're only talking a 7v difference which can easily be = handled by a standard LM317. Of course an accidental short on the output would = cause it to exceed it's rating, and I suppose this could happen if the output = transistor were to short and the output of the power supply was also shorted. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 14:04:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:04:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980114150312.0096b950@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:03:12 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! In-Reply-To: <34bd0eb3.270515595@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen >Don't think I'm not interested (I am) but the last design you had was not short >circuit proof, have you tried connecting a jumper across the output to see what >happens to those pass transistors? I have been meaning to to that! I'll give it a jolt tonight and report what happens. At any rate, shorting the pass (power) transistors will not harm the new regulator board. >Either way I'm not sure short circuit proof is that big a deal and I'm >interested in a few of these even if they're not short proof. I did not add any short circuit protection to the LV PCB because it is not necessary. If the pass transistors do short, the LV PCB will not be damaged (not so with the old original design!) However, adding some kind of short circuit protection to the pass (power) transistors themselves would be a good idea. I have some short circuit protection schemes jotted down on paper, specifically a foldback current limit circuit, that could easily be added to the power transistors. I'll add it to my list of things to do when I am done with the fab order. -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 14:33:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:33:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:34:54 GMT Message-ID: <34c03a1d.281631485@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114150312.0096b950@btc.btc.adaptec.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980114150312.0096b950@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:03:12 -0700, Anders Knudsen wrote: >>Don't think I'm not interested (I am) but the last design you had was = not >short >>circuit proof, have you tried connecting a jumper across the output to = see >what >>happens to those pass transistors? > >I have been meaning to to that! I'll give it a jolt tonight and report = what >happens. It's probably not worth doing, there's nothing protecting the transistor = it that case. So one of two things will happen: 1) It will survive (possibly stressing your pass transistors for a future failure). This'll prove nothing (except your a lucky guy!) because = there's still nothing protecting the pass transistors. 2) It will destroy your pass transistors which you will have to replace, = at which point you have to ask, "Why the hell did you put a wire across the = output when you know it was going to destroy the transistor? Are you going to = pour sugar in your gas tank next to see if it really gums up your cars engine?= Maybe it will, maybe it won't..." >At any rate, shorting the pass (power) transistors will not harm the new >regulator board. That's true! > >>Either way I'm not sure short circuit proof is that big a deal and I'm >>interested in a few of these even if they're not short proof. > >I did not add any short circuit protection to the LV PCB because it is = not >necessary. If the pass transistors do short, the LV PCB will not be = damaged >(not so with the old original design!) >However, adding some kind of short circuit protection to the pass = (power) >transistors themselves would be a good idea. I have some short circuit >protection schemes jotted down on paper, specifically a foldback current >limit circuit, that could easily be added to the power transistors. I'll >add it to my list of things to do when I am done with the fab order. I think it's more trouble than it's worth. The best I can tell voltage = surges seem to be the culprits that kill the X/Y transistors, not too much = current. I believe current wise the transistors are highly overrated, yet they still= die. However you do it, adding current protection to the schematic is easy, = but it means a bit more hacking on the WG monitor. You'll lose your nice and = easy drop in replacement. It wouldn't be hard to explain to someone how to add current limiting and= let them do it if they want. I've never seen it done (for the low voltage = supply) on any X/Y monitor I've seen the schematic to. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 14:41:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:39:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980114163712.0075d9f4@netins.net> X-Sender: omar@netins.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:37:12 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: omar@netins.net Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: omar@netins.net I'd like four boards, and yes, I'd like fries with that please. :-) Mike Benedict From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 14:54:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:53:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980114155304.00a4b100@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:53:04 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! In-Reply-To: <34c03a1d.281631485@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980114150312.0096b950@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114150312.0096b950@btc.btc.adaptec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen >>I have been meaning to to that! I'll give it a jolt tonight and report what >>happens. > >It's probably not worth doing, there's nothing protecting the transistor it that >case. So one of two things will happen: > >1) It will survive (possibly stressing your pass transistors for a future >failure). This'll prove nothing (except your a lucky guy!) because there's >still nothing protecting the pass transistors. I feel lucky. >2) It will destroy your pass transistors which you will have to replace, at >which point you have to ask, "Why the hell did you put a wire across the output >when you know it was going to destroy the transistor? Are you going to pour >sugar in your gas tank next to see if it really gums up your cars engine? Maybe >it will, maybe it won't..." Yea. That'd be cool. he he. >>At any rate, shorting the pass (power) transistors will not harm the new >>regulator board. > >That's true! This *is* the best feature of the new LV PCB. >>I did not add any short circuit protection to the LV PCB because it is not >>necessary. If the pass transistors do short, the LV PCB will not be damaged >>(not so with the old original design!) >>However, adding some kind of short circuit protection to the pass (power) >>transistors themselves would be a good idea. I have some short circuit >>protection schemes jotted down on paper, specifically a foldback current >>limit circuit, that could easily be added to the power transistors. I'll >>add it to my list of things to do when I am done with the fab order. > >I think it's more trouble than it's worth. The best I can tell voltage surges >seem to be the culprits that kill the X/Y transistors, not too much current. I >believe current wise the transistors are highly overrated, yet they still die. > >However you do it, adding current protection to the schematic is easy, but it >means a bit more hacking on the WG monitor. You'll lose your nice and easy drop >in replacement. True. One thing that I had thought would help protect both the power pass transistors, and the deflection transistors, would be to add a TVS (transient voltage suppressor) accross the collector-emitter. This would clamp any voltage spikes. It is just a matter of soldering one directly across the ce of the transistor! >It wouldn't be hard to explain to someone how to add current limiting and let >them do it if they want. I've never seen it done (for the low voltage supply) >on any X/Y monitor I've seen the schematic to. Like you said, may not be worth it. -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 15:08:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:08:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BD448B.6761@links.magenta.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:04:43 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Decent little cap tester... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Just some more info for any of you expanding your test gear. I was making > an order from Jameco the other day and saw their "BelMerit Capacitance > Meter" (#140741) for $59.95... I decided to add it on to the order-- when > I called in the price was $49.95 (cool). Is that little black on with red LED displays in it and one button? I had one of those a while back before I lost it. It was a very nice little unit. Now I have some kind of crappy tenma item. :-0 jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 15:13:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:13:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:13:33 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "I have some short circuit protection schemes jotted down on paper, specifically a foldback current limit circuit, that could easily be added to the power transistors. I'll add it to my list of things to do when I am done with the fab order." hmm... did you have an urgent need for more of these original boards. wouldn't it make sense to add the current limiting to this BEFORE you make a bunch of them? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 15:19:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:19:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:20:43 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: Bulletproof your WG6100! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >>Also-- as the board complexity goes up you might need a couple extras for >>manufacturing defects. AP Circuits has been pretty good about getting me >>good fabs, but without electrical testing on the boards you're never really >>sure until you try it. (Which is why I like to pre-assemble the more >>complicated stuff like the Sega Multigame. The multigame averages over 28 >>holes per inch for components and vias...) > >So you did not have electrical test done on the sega multigame pcbs? Nope. I dunno if AP Circuits even offers full electrical test. From experience here at work it generally adds between $150-500 depending on the design. That's a big chunk to swallow for only 36 boards. Since I'm building them up anyway I figured I'd gamble some time vs. money on that one. :-) >Yes, this is a single layer board. So the price quote I have is for single >layer. Also, the board will have a solder mask on the trace (bottom) side. >It adds very little to the cost to add the solder mask, so I am getting >that done. I think I'd go ahead and add mask and silk screen (front side) if I do anymore "you put it together" boards too. The problem with AP Circuits is that mask/screen means by default "level 2" service which has a $256 setup charge so it's a big financial hit unless you're doing more than about 800 square inches of boards. (The total run of the Sega Multigames is about half that...) >The solder mask helps alot when soldering components to the pads. >Since it is a single layer board, I will do a quick trace/pad continuity >test on each PCB I send to anyone ordering unassembled PCBs. That way, you >won't get a bum PCB. Ehhh, soldermask is nice if you're going to wave solder the thing, but I think it's no-big-deal for hand-building. Arguably it's annoying depending on how much room your mask gives you (particularly for surface mount stuff). As a single-layer board I wouldn't even worry about testing them... I'm willing to bet you made the traces prety heavy, and since you don't have any vias or plated-through holes it should be pretty bullet-proof. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 15:20:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:20:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:20:40 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "However you do it, adding current protection to the schematic is easy, = but it means a bit more hacking on the WG monitor. You'll lose your nice and = easy drop in replacement." ..ignore my last message about waiting, then. seems like we went through this a few months ago (and I still haven't measured the voltages at the yoke under operation) where does the overvoltage come from that blows the junctions? if it is from inductive voltage kickback, couldn't you put commutation diodes across the collectors and emitters, or put a MOV on it? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 15:23:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:23:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:24:24 GMT Message-ID: <34c146df.284898135@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980114150312.0096b950@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114150312.0096b950@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114155304.00a4b100@btc.btc.adaptec.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980114155304.00a4b100@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:53:04 -0700, Anders Knudsen wrote: > >>That's true! > >This *is* the best feature of the new LV PCB. Considering in my experience, the number one killer of everything was the= LV design. What seems to happen is that during power on/off, one of the = zener diodes will explode and then take out the rest of the circuit. If you look at one version of the schematic they have a good size = capacitor directly across the zener diodes No current protection what so ever. = There's enough current in that capacitor to take out the diode during a quick = discharge. Or it looked like if one channel of the power supply discharge/charged = faster than the other, the imbalance could cause havoc. Later they added a = resistor in series with the zener to keep it from dying, only to greatly reduce = regulation (and raising the output voltage from 25 to 27) I've actually been staring at a zener when I turned off a perfectly = working WG and saw the arc shoot through the zener diode. Of course I was then = stupid enough to go "Huh?" and turn the thing back on! DoH! Many other things = (that were probably fine) smoked at that point. >True. One thing that I had thought would help protect both the power = pass >transistors, and the deflection transistors, would be to add a TVS >(transient voltage suppressor) accross the collector-emitter. This would >clamp any voltage spikes. It is just a matter of soldering one directly >across the ce of the transistor! I like the idea, are the TVS's fast enough to protect the transistors? -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 15:25:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:25:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980114162449.00a4b8d0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:24:49 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 03:20 PM 1/14/98 -0800, you wrote: >"However you do it, adding current protection to the schematic is easy, = >but it >means a bit more hacking on the WG monitor. You'll lose your nice and = >easy drop >in replacement." > >..ignore my last message about waiting, then. > >seems like we went through this a few months ago (and I still haven't >measured the voltages at the yoke under operation) > >where does the overvoltage come from that blows the junctions? if it >is from inductive voltage kickback, couldn't you put commutation diodes >across the collectors and emitters, or put a MOV on it? Yea, or like I said in the last message I sent, put a TVS across the C-E of the BJTs. -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 15:26:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:26:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <199801141526470220.00114B14@mail.cris.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 2.30.23 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:26:47 -0800 From: "Warren 'Llama' Ernst" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Warren 'Llama' Ernst" *********** REPLY PARTITION *********** On 1/14/98, at 2:44 PM, I'm also in for 4 or 5. I'll probably want the parts bags too, so that >I won't have to track 'em down... I'm in for at least 4 as well. Bag o'parts too. I would love to see a more detailed description of the unit one of these days. Virtually, Warr ------------------------------+---------------------------------------- Reviewer, "Windows Magazine" | Warren Ernst - warren@techie.com Author, "Using Netscape" | http://www.cris.com/~wernst/ "Internet 1997 Unleashed" (c) | Computer Journalist, Consultant, Author "Netscape 3 Unleashed"(contr) | Graphic Artist, Nerd "Presenting ActiveX" | Que and Sams.Net Publishing | "If it ain't broke, don't break it." ------------------------------+---------------------------------------- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 15:28:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:28:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:30:03 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >I'd have to look at my notes at home for exact numbers, but with a quick >back of the envelope calculation, I believe the source current is no more >than 100 to 200 mA. Any more than that and I think the pass transistor will >source a current high enough to blow the fuses. i.e., -- it is possible >that my current PCB will work with the HV versions of the LM regulators. >I'll take a closer look at it after I have finished the fab order. Cool. Looks like the LM317/337HVH come in a TO-39 package (metal can). Pinout's a little different than the TO-220, but I could hack a couple in to try at least. If you only need 100mA or so you might be able to use the TO-92 packaged LM317/337-- they're $.63 a pop from Digikey. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 15:32:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:31:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:33:14 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Decent little cap tester... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >Is that little black on with red LED displays in it and one button? I >had one of those a while back before I lost it. It was a very nice >little unit. Now I have some kind of crappy tenma item. :-0 This one just has a dial and a zero-adjust knob for the pF range. Comes with a battery and alligator clips, and the little "slide in" test slots if you don't want to use the clips. (Hey, now don't you be bad-mouthing Tenma. I have one of their 40MHz scopes with onscreen displays and really like it. ;-) ('course it's not the Tektronix stuff we have at work, but for an order of magnitude difference in the price I won't complain!) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 15:38:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:38:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:39:21 GMT Message-ID: <34c2495f.285537948@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:13:33 -0800 (PST), aek (Al Kossow) wrote: >"I have some short circuit >protection schemes jotted down on paper, specifically a foldback current >limit circuit, that could easily be added to the power transistors. I'll >add it to my list of things to do when I am done with the fab order." > >hmm... did you have an urgent need for more of these original boards. >wouldn't it make sense to add the current limiting to this BEFORE you >make a bunch of them? We knocked this back and forth the last time this came up. The problem is the current limit design will require a power resistor on = the output of the pass transistor (to detect the current) and another = transistor to short the BE of the pass transistor as the current goes up. Easy enough to do, but not doable as a drop in replacement for the = current LV regulator. You're going to have to cut and rearrange some things. = Whereas now all you need to do is hook into already existing points on the PCB board.= No hacks. Also, the transistors used to current limit will have to be able to = sustain the current that can be delivered by the voltage regulators indefinitely. = This can be in excess of an 1.5 amps so they will have to be heatsinked beyond a = little tab heatsink. That adds a new level of pain in the mounting of the = board. You can also regulate the current going into the pass transistors and = thereby indirectly regulate to total current, but then you're depending a high = tolerance HFE value, which is seldom the case. The transistors are rate at minimum= HFE. Max can (it almost always is) much greater, which would render the = current regulation, of the base current, useless. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 15:39:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:39:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980114163823.00a598f0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:38:23 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! In-Reply-To: <34c146df.284898135@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980114155304.00a4b100@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114150312.0096b950@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114150312.0096b950@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114155304.00a4b100@btc.btc.adaptec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen >Considering in my experience, the number one killer of everything was the LV >design. What seems to happen is that during power on/off, one of the zener >diodes will explode and then take out the rest of the circuit. > >If you look at one version of the schematic they have a good size capacitor >directly across the zener diodes No current protection what so ever. There's >enough current in that capacitor to take out the diode during a quick discharge. >Or it looked like if one channel of the power supply discharge/charged faster >than the other, the imbalance could cause havoc. Later they added a resistor in >series with the zener to keep it from dying, only to greatly reduce regulation >(and raising the output voltage from 25 to 27) Interresting you should mention this. When you install a new LV PCB you will be able to visually see this happening. With the LV2000 installed, when you turn the game off, the positive LED stays on longer than the negative LED. i.e., -- the negative supply discharges faster. > >I like the idea, are the TVS's fast enough to protect the transistors? > >-Zonn I believe so. I will look in to this. -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 15:39:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:39:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:40:26 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >One thing to be aware of is the voltage ratings on these things are only the >maximum input/output differential. If you plan on placing 57 volts on the >input >of the LM317 and regulating it down to 1.2 volts, your going to need an >LM317HVH. But if you plan on an input voltage of 55 volts, and then regulating >it to 48v then you're only talking a 7v difference which can easily be handled >by a standard LM317. Oh really? That's cool. I guess they're floating ground, huh? That would be nice actually since the high-voltage parts are majorly-expensive in singles. ($10 vs. $1) And you're right about the voltage differential of course... >Of course an accidental short on the output would cause it >to exceed it's rating, and I suppose this could happen if the output transistor >were to short and the output of the power supply was also shorted. I seem to remember a National Semiconductor databook (pretty old-- late 70's?) that was basically on building power supplies with their LM series parts. I remember it had a really nice walk-through on transformer selection... I'll look for it tonight since I (think I) remember they suggested a few output-short protection methods. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 15:58:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:58:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:59:32 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >I think it's more trouble than it's worth. The best I can tell voltage surges >seem to be the culprits that kill the X/Y transistors, not too much current. I >believe current wise the transistors are highly overrated, yet they still die. You know... Why don't we just use a MOV or Sidactor to clamp the voltage on the transistors? We use Sidactors in our modems to clamp (voltage) surges on the phone line since no matter how much current you run through it the clamp voltage stays constant. Even a MOV though might be enough to protect the transistors. I dunno how low of clamping voltage the MOVs are available in though. (I assume we want it close enough to stop damaging spikes, but far enough out of regular operating parameters to prevent erroneous clamping...) There are those gas-filled guys too (gas discharge tube?), but it seems like you have to have some way of interrupting current to them once they trigger (like a breaker in series)... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 16:07:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:06:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:08:20 GMT Message-ID: <34c4530a.288013224@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980114155304.00a4b100@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114150312.0096b950@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114150312.0096b950@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114155304.00a4b100@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114163823.00a598f0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980114163823.00a598f0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:38:23 -0700, Anders Knudsen wrote: >With the LV2000 installed, LV2000? Gee I hope you haven't adopted the Microsoft protocol of naming = your products after the year of their release! ;^) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 16:30:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:29:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:28:41 GMT X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Bulletproof your WG6100! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Well Anders and I were a little worried about the cash layout to get these things made and if we would get stuck with piles of boards. Now we are beginning to wonder if we need to increase our order. These things are way cool, I had a monitor in my black widow that was giving me all kinds of trouble. I couldn't get the picture small enough to fit on the screen (I adjusted the size pots to min.), and the screen also had the shakes. Anders assembled the first one on a breadboard and I hooked it into my monitor, wedged a corner of the breadboard under the deflection pcb, and fired it up... and it worked. The screen was small (because I had the sizes turn all the way down) and was stable as a rock. He wipped out a few boards and I installed them in troubled monitors and they have worked flawlessly ever since. I had the opportunity to place 4 of my star wars machines in movie theatres last year and in the first 2 weeks, all the amplifone monitors went dead (which is to be expected), so I replaced them all with wells gardner monitors and slowly they started to die. Then I started replacing the low voltage section of deflection boards with LV2000s and they have been running solid ever since. (I still have 2 machines on location and they leave them running at night) So I have 2 that have been on for about a year, without rest, and they are humming along. If anyone wants to see what these things look like, there is a picture of one of the prototypes at www.spies.com/arcade/schematics/ scroll down to the "Tempest LV regulator" section. the production boards look very similar, the placement of a few of the parts have been moved. The schematics are also up there if anybody is curious on how these things work. I should have the instruction manual for these done in a few days, I'll post a .pdf file of it we it gets closer. (It will be a few weeks to get assembly photos in it, because we need the boards to finish it) -jeff jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 16:34:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:33:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:33:11 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Well Anders and I were a little worried about the cash layout to get these things made and if we would get stuck with piles of boards. Now we are beginning to wonder if we need to increase our order." ..and you haven't even posted them on RGVAC yet! From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 16:35:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:33:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:33:53 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: oops Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) forgot Steve is on the list :-) RGVAM.. not RGVAC From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 16:42:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:41:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:40:18 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9801141840.ZM13159@calcite> In-Reply-To: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) "Bulletproof your WG6100!" (Jan 15, 12:28am) References: X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mark Jenison On Jan 15, 12:28am, Jeff Hendrix wrote: > Subject: Bulletproof your WG6100! > > So I have 2 [StarWars] that have been on for about a > year, without rest, and they are humming along. > > -jeff I'm sold; mark me down for 2! (One just in case I get that Space Duel I'm looking for...) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 16:49:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:48:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BD5CFC.3EA368EB@tir.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:49:00 -0500 From: Scott Goings X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! References: <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Scott Goings I am interested in a couple w/ Bag "O" Parts. Scott Anders Knudsen wrote: > Well I finally got all my shit together and finished up the low voltage > retrofit design for the WG6100 color monitors. > Just a reminder this retrofit replaces the low voltage power supply on the > deflection PCB. > I have a quote from a local PCB fab that has very reasonable prices (they > actually were a better price than Alberta Printed Circuits (the one Clay > uses I think). > Anyway, I will place an order if there are people that want this retrofit. > FYI: I am not in this to make any money, just to sell enough to break even > :-) and have a few LVPCBs for my own games. > Here is the deal: > The PCB is very "cute": 1" x 2" in size and fits perfectly in the place of > the old LV parts. > It bulletproofs the LV part of the deflection PCB. So if you get HV > runaway, or some deflection short problem, the LV PCB will not be damaged! > i.e., never replace your LV parts again! > Jeff H is basically my "testimonial" to its functionality. He has had a > couple of them running in Star Wars machines that are continually on in a > local movie theatre. Just ask him jeffh@diac.com > I will sell bare PCBs to you folks since most are knowledgeable and have > used a soldering iron before. The PCB has a silkscreen so parts placement > should not be a problem. I'll also include some documentation. If people > want, I can include a "bag-o-parts", or ship LV PCBs fully assembled. > I will let the bare PCBs go for $10 to $6 depending on quantity ordered. > A bag-o-parts should run around $7 to $8 for all the parts. > Fully assembled will add a small fee (I am guessing most people will want > to do it yourself, however I won't be responsible for lack of soldering > skills ;-O) > So the retrofit should be cheap and it is a one-time replacement for what > most of the WG6100 Zanen kit. > Let me know asap since I need to get a quantity order in to the fab. The > more I order, the cheaper the per cost will be. > -Anders. > > ----------------------------------------- > | Anders Knudsen > | ASIC Design Engineer > | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center > | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com > | http://www.adaptec.com > ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 17:01:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:59:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 01:01:14 GMT Message-ID: <34c55dc3.290758965@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:28:41 GMT, jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) wrote: >Well Anders and I were a little worried about the cash layout to get = these >things made and if we would get stuck with piles of boards. Now we are >beginning to wonder if we need to increase our order. > >These things are way cool, I had a monitor in my black widow that was >giving me all kinds of trouble. I couldn't get the picture small enough = to >fit on the screen (I adjusted the size pots to min.), and the screen = also >had the shakes. >Anders assembled the first one on a breadboard and I hooked it into my >monitor, wedged a corner of the breadboard under the deflection pcb, = and >fired it up... and it worked. >The screen was small (because I had the sizes turn all the way down) and >was stable as a rock. He wipped out a few boards and I installed them in >troubled monitors and they have worked flawlessly ever since. >I had the opportunity to place 4 of my star wars machines in movie = theatres >last year and in the first 2 weeks, all the amplifone monitors went dead >(which is to be expected), so I replaced them all with wells gardner >monitors and slowly they started to die. Then I started replacing the = low >voltage section of deflection boards with LV2000s and they have been >running solid ever since. (I still have 2 machines on location and they >leave them running at night) So I have 2 that have been on for about a >year, without rest, and they are humming along. Let me throw in that while I haven't used Anders exact circuit, I have = been using a circuit of my own that does the same thing. So far it gives the = best "vector stability" of any of my experiments. Anders circuit is easier to install, and the performance should be close = (if not exactly) identical in it's regulation. If Anders is going to build up PCBs, I'm going to use his. I'm tired of = hand wiring these things up! (In fact I'm putting off fixing some WGs until I= get these from Anders, my work just got a lot easier!) When you're close to getting these built, make sure you post to RGVAC, I = know at least Gaymond (I'm sure) is going to want a few of these... -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 18:21:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:19:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:18:56 -0500 (EST) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist@spies.com cc: jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Battlezone problem. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mitchell Rohde Ok, so I tried some of the suggestions folks sent. I reseated the chips again and checked for bent pins, etc. Still no dice. Forcing the resetting to stop by grounding that WDDIS testpoint worked, but the game is still dead. I can assume that taking the chips out and cleaning or handling the board killed something that was on it's way out (though I am very careful and have experience working with stuff like this for many years... strange. Only old games seem to be so sensitive...) My question is this: what is the boot sequence of the battlezone board? When does the Watchdog clear address get written to by the cpu? Mitch On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Mitchell Rohde wrote: > > > Now I get zilch from the unit. I didn't see squat on the data lines, and > > I heard a "blip-blip-blip-blip..." from the speaker... the sound of a > > reset. So I probed the reset circuit output, sure enough.. it's > > going up and down about two or three times a second. If I press the reset > > switch on the generator board it pins the thing in reset, but when I > > release it goes back to the resetting... > > > > How does this watchdog circuit work, and has anyone seen this before? > > What trips the watchdog? > > > > Hey Mitch, > > Long time no "see." > > The watchdog is just a counter that, when it counts to its max. > value, triggers the reset. There is an instruction (which could be just a > store to a certian location) which clears the watchdog. So, in theory, if > the CPU is running properly, it should clear the watchdog timer before it > times out. > > If you've got schematics, there is a WDCLR signal which goes to > the RESET line on the counter (which generates the RESET line to the CPU) > probe it and see if it's pulsing at all. If it's not, then there is some > other CPU problem. There is also a test point on the board labeled WDDIS > or something like that. If you ground it with an alligator clip lead it > disables the watchdog counter. The theory goes that if it works with the > wotchdog disabled, then there is a watchdog problem, else there is a CPU > problem. My Lunar Lander didn't work (i.e. stayed in RESET) despite my > disabling the watchdog, and it turned out to be a bad watchdog counter, so > there's no hard and fast rule.... > > Good luck.... > > Joe > > > > > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 18:36:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:34:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:34:05 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Battlezone problem. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Mitchell Rohde wrote: > > Ok, so I tried some of the suggestions folks sent. I reseated the chips > again and checked for bent pins, etc. Still no dice. Forcing the > resetting to stop by grounding that WDDIS testpoint worked, but the game > is still dead. I can assume that taking the chips out and cleaning or > handling the board killed something that was on it's way out (though I am > very careful and have experience working with stuff like this for many > years... strange. Only old games seem to be so sensitive...) Does the self-test run at all? The manual says that there are like 2 ROMS that will cause the self-test not to run if they are bad. ROMS do go bad relatively often in the old Atari B/W games, so you mihgt want to check them out, especially if they're masked ROMS (I think someone else might've said the same thing....) I don't have the manual in front of me, so I don't know whach ones they are... Usually a bad RAM will get picked up by the self-test (at least I haven't had a case where it hasn't.) So I wouldn't bet on it being a bad RAM. > My question is this: what is the boot sequence of the battlezone board? > When does the Watchdog clear address get written to by the cpu? > I have no idea....Has anyone disassembled the code? Maybe some of the MAME people know.... Joe From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 18:44:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:42:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:42:07 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: More Battlezone Problems Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Hey All, While we're at it with Battlezone Problems, I've got a bizarre one. My Z output is stuck on, so all of the retrace lines get drawn (just as bright as all the "normal" lines) It's not a brightness/contrast problem -- If I screw around with the brightness, all the vectors (including the retrace vectors) change brightness uniformly. All deflection is OK. This problem happens on a tested good 19V2000 and a tested good G05, so I'm positive this is on the board somewhere. I'm not sure what the Z output is supposed to look like (The G05 manual shows some bizarre waveform) but I socketed and replaced the comparators which control ZBLANK and got no change. BUT, when I remove the comparator on the X channel, things get a bit better (The picture looks like it has the brightness turned up too much -- the retrace lines are a lot dimmer than the normal lines -- but other wierd stuff happens, most likely because that comparator is gone) Any ideas? Any ideas of what to look for on the Z output with a scope/meter/whatever? Thanks, Joe From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 19:12:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:11:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BD2A3E.60D6@idt.net> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:12:30 +0000 From: mayday19 Organization: Preferred Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IDT-v5 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Color Asteriods Deluxe?! References: <9801141944.AA22578@savage.raleigh.ibm.com> <199801142046.PAA29165@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9801141452.ZM9635@calcite> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: mayday19 Mark Jenison wrote: > Yes; it's called "Space Duel" ;-) > > Ps. or maybe he meant "color raster", it which case it'd be "Blasteroids" ;-) > > Pss. Or maybe he just saw one "giant asteroid", it which case it'd be called > "Eliminator" ;-) > > Or an AD converted to Star Trek... That is what I first did when I talked to him... I asked him if it was a converion or Blasteriods. He said it was something different. He has at least 4 Space Duels so it definately isn't that.. I guess we'll have to wait and see... I hope he wasn't getting confused or anything.. But I guess getting 300 games in 1 load could do that to you! :> I dont see how any proto stuff could make it to GA unless it was for an industry show... I figure it is all in CA. Besides, what the hell would the point of a color vector AD be? he was sure of himself so we'll see.. Jeff From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 19:30:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:28:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BD81BC.3C27@links.magenta.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:25:48 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Did you guys notice.... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Hi all, I was over at BG micro looking the logic analyser that John told us about. They have a nice IC spec page with .pdf docs too. I happened to notice that they have a pdf for the SPO-256 on there. Weren't you guys looking for that info with great difficulty? Anyway, their page is at http://www.bgmicro.com/proddoc.htm I "borrowed" it an put it up permanantly at .. www.gamearchive.com/tech/spo-256/ If anyone wants to add to the docs there please let me know. Also... BG has the spo-256's for sale for $4.95 jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 19:34:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:33:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BD2F69.7E3@idt.net> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:34:33 +0000 From: mayday19 Organization: Preferred Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IDT-v5 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Color Asteriods Deluxe?! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: mayday19 I'm probably wasting bandwidth here, cause this will probably not turn out to be true... but with any luck.. > Not to rain on anyone's parade, but about five years ago someone posted > on RGV(A?) that they had a color Asteroids. Turns out it was just an > Asteroids with a Star Castle overlay. > > Unless you have some confidence in your friend's ability (and I'm not > trying to slam anyone here), I wouldn't get my hopes up figuring that > the color AD turns out to be an overlay or Space Duel. He has a bunch of SDs so it aint that, he said it was an AD, but it had a different cab so he looked in the back to see what it was and it had a color vector monitor in it.. Maybe the op did a hack job with a Space Duel in an AD cab? > ps - Quite a haul your friend got there! Five MH's!! Did he get any > rare Cinematronics or Vectorbeam stuff? No idea as of yet... I'm gonna get a complete list soon.. He'll probably want like $500 to $600 for the MHs, I think that is a good deal considering they are worth more than that parted out! Jeff From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 21:29:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:29:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:31:59 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Cc: Anders Knudsen Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 11:52 AM 1/14/98, Anders Knudsen wrote: >Well I finally got all my shit together and finished up the low voltage >retrofit design for the WG6100 color monitors. >Just a reminder this retrofit replaces the low voltage power supply on the >deflection PCB. >I will sell bare PCBs to you folks since most are knowledgeable and have >used a soldering iron before. The PCB has a silkscreen so parts placement >should not be a problem. I'll also include some documentation. If people >want, I can include a "bag-o-parts", or ship LV PCBs fully assembled. >I will let the bare PCBs go for $10 to $6 depending on quantity ordered. >A bag-o-parts should run around $7 to $8 for all the parts. >Fully assembled will add a small fee (I am guessing most people will want >to do it yourself, however I won't be responsible for lack of soldering >skills ;-O) I'll take 20 complete kits (PCB + BOP; I'll put them together myself). Let me know the total and when/where to send the money. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 22:38:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:37:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 15 Jan 1998 00:34 CST To: vectorlist@spies.com From: "Mark Shostak" Subject: Re: Signature Analysing Question Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Mark Shostak" In message "Signature Analysing Question", pinball@istar.ca writes: > Hi, Mark! > > You can also wire up a special CPU that is locked into "NOP" function, > this will generate a nice pattern for SI. > > John :-#)# Hi John, I've done that, but for some reason on Atari boards, the NOP configuration does not yield stable signatures. So far I've been too busy to figure out why, so I just use the CAT box. However, it does work well on Space Inva- ders. Cheers, Mark P.S. Come to think of it, it may just be the phase difference between ph.1 and ph.2 of the clock. With the CAT, they're in phase, but with the NOP they're not. Note to self: check the clocks. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 22:55:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:54:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:06:37 -0600 Subject: Re: Decent little cap tester... Message-ID: <19980115.005307.9614.3.gonzothegreat@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4-5,7-9,11,13-19,22-24 From: gonzothegreat@juno.com (Alan J McCormick) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: gonzothegreat@juno.com (Alan J McCormick) On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:33:17 -0800 Clay Cowgill writes: >Just some more info for any of you expanding your test gear. I was making >an order from Jameco the other day and saw their "BelMerit Capacitance >Meter" (#140741) for $59.95... I decided to add it on to the order-- when >I called in the price was $49.95 (cool). > >Although it doesn't do all the leakage/ESR/dialectric absorbtion tests that >the Sencore does it seems to be great for testing if a cap is out of spec >or identifying the value of something you're not quite sure about. Does this bugger do any tests other than basic capacitance measurement? On a related subject (and one not directly pertaining to vectorlist...) Has anybody here had any experience with any of the "cheap" cap ESR testers? I do a lot of work with switcher PSUs and I wanted some opinions before dropping some cash on the Dick Smith model. Virtu-Al From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 23:56:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:56:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BDB92E.67ED@istar.ca> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:33:19 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Decent little cap tester... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Just some more info for any of you expanding your test gear. I was making > an order from Jameco the other day and saw their "BelMerit Capacitance > Meter" (#140741) for $59.95... I decided to add it on to the order-- when > I called in the price was $49.95 (cool). > > Anyway, I got it yesterday so I brought it into work with a double-handful > of caps and did some A/B tests against the Sencore Model LC77 > capacitor/inductor analyzer. > > Long story short-- although it only measures capacitance it seems to do it > very well (esp. compared to the Sencore's $1800 price tag). Accuracy seems > better on the pF-nF range (more or less exactly the same answers the > Sencore gave there), drift gets a little more pronounced in the uF range, > but never more than the tolerance of the caps I tested. > > Although it doesn't do all the leakage/ESR/dialectric absorbtion tests that > the Sencore does it seems to be great for testing if a cap is out of spec > or identifying the value of something you're not quite sure about. > > Good little value for $50. > > -Clay > > Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager > _______________________________________________________________________ > /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com > \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ Hmm, putting on my shop hat: Speaking of cap testors, I am carrying the Capacitor Wizard that will check 1 ufd and up caps in circuit for ESR, and uses a meter movement for quick readings. The meter gives a relative reading and if questionable you compare with a known-to-be-good device. I find this really usefull in checking in-circuit (I did mention it reads in-circuit didn't I?) in switching supplies, monitors,, etc. It is also handy for finding shorts in traces, and low resistance shorts. Check it out on the web page. Special price for Vectorlist folks...$150US each, regularly $175, quantity break available too. Sorry about the add, but I would be happy to ship this to someone for eval for the group to consider... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 23:56:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:56:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BDBBA0.784D@istar.ca> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:33:12 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! References: <3.0.5.32.19980114150312.0096b950@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114150312.0096b950@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114155304.00a4b100@btc.btc.adaptec.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Someone wrote: (long thread, this) ... > >>limit circuit, that could easily be added to the power transistors. I'll > >>add it to my list of things to do when I am done with the fab order. > > > >I think it's more trouble than it's worth. The best I can tell voltage > surges > >seem to be the culprits that kill the X/Y transistors, not too much > current. I > >believe current wise the transistors are highly overrated, yet they still > die. ... Hi, All! Based on over twenty years of service experience I believe that the problem with the output transistors dying is not the regulation but the main logic board providing too large a signal for the output transistors. You will notice that the schematics call for a 2N2792X for the horizontal range, the "X" is for eXtended range on the transistor. I have noticed that Electrohome monitors for Star Trek seemed to die, and I experimented with installing a switching supply on a few games, and NEVER had a monitor fail after that! These games are still running, in fact I sold one to a fellow in Japan last fall-it was installed in a Nutting Computer Space cabinet (did this fifteen years ago) and the game never had service since installation. The factory also made a XY input limiting board that is in my games that refuse to die. (Note this doesn't help the HV!) I was thinking that for any future games we sell that we put both a switching supply in AND a relay that will cut power to the monitor IF the switching supply goes down. A simple 12 volt relay connected to the +12 output should be fine, either that or hook up a 6V relay to the +5, and if the +5 gets too low the relay drops out... A solid state relay might be better... Comments? John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 14 23:56:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:56:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BDBE91.1C37@istar.ca> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:45:21 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Signature Analysing Question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Mark Shostak wrote: > > In message "Signature Analysing Question", pinball@istar.ca writes: > > > Hi, Mark! > > > > You can also wire up a special CPU that is locked into "NOP" function, > > this will generate a nice pattern for SI. > > > > John :-#)# > > Hi John, > > I've done that, but for some reason on Atari boards, the NOP configuration > does not yield stable signatures. So far I've been too busy to figure out > why, so I just use the CAT box. However, it does work well on Space Inva- > ders. > > Cheers, > Mark > > P.S. Come to think of it, it may just be the phase difference between ph.1 > and ph.2 of the clock. With the CAT, they're in phase, but with the > NOP they're not. Note to self: check the clocks. Hi! (I take it you like John Brunner?) Anyways, you will need to turn off the Watchdog Reset feature on Atari boards for the NOP to work correctly... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 15 00:13:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:13:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BDC4C1.4260@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:11:45 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Jeff Hendrix wrote: > > Well Anders and I were a little worried about the cash layout to get these > things made and if we would get stuck with piles of boards. Now we are > beginning to wonder if we need to increase our order. > > These things are way cool, I had a monitor in my black widow that was > giving me all kinds of trouble. I couldn't get the picture small enough to > fit on the screen (I adjusted the size pots to min.), and the screen also > had the shakes. > Anders assembled the first one on a breadboard and I hooked it into my > monitor, wedged a corner of the breadboard under the deflection pcb, and > fired it up... and it worked. > The screen was small (because I had the sizes turn all the way down) and > was stable as a rock. He wipped out a few boards and I installed them in > troubled monitors and they have worked flawlessly ever since. > I had the opportunity to place 4 of my star wars machines in movie theatres > last year and in the first 2 weeks, all the amplifone monitors went dead > (which is to be expected), so I replaced them all with wells gardner > monitors and slowly they started to die. Then I started replacing the low > voltage section of deflection boards with LV2000s and they have been > running solid ever since. (I still have 2 machines on location and they > leave them running at night) So I have 2 that have been on for about a > year, without rest, and they are humming along. > > If anyone wants to see what these things look like, there is a picture of > one of the prototypes at > > www.spies.com/arcade/schematics/ > scroll down to the "Tempest LV regulator" section. > > the production boards look very similar, the placement of a few of the > parts have been moved. > The schematics are also up there if anybody is curious on how these things work. > > I should have the instruction manual for these done in a few days, I'll > post a .pdf file of it we it gets closer. > (It will be a few weeks to get assembly photos in it, because we need the > boards to finish it) > > -jeff > > jeffh@diac.com > > Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. > www.diac.com/~jeffh/ Hi, Jeff! Took a look at your schematic, seems fine, but should there not be a diode reverse biased across the voltage regulator input/output leads? To protect the regulator from back voltage during shutdown. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 15 04:42:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 04:42:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:41:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Decent little cap tester... In-Reply-To: <34BDB92E.67ED@istar.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, John Robertson wrote: > Clay Cowgill wrote: > > > > the Sencore does it seems to be great for testing if a cap is out of spec > > or identifying the value of something you're not quite sure about. > > > > Good little value for $50. > Speaking of cap testors, I am carrying the Capacitor Wizard that will > check 1 ufd and up caps in circuit for ESR, and uses a meter movement > for quick readings. The meter gives a relative reading and if Maybe I'm just lucky: I have a Heathkit DMM (that I'm 99% sure is really a Fluke meter), that includes capacitor and transistor testing. The whole meter kit was only about $80 when I built it about 7 - 8 years ago, and Heathkit wasn't known for being that much cheaper than a prebuilt. Talked my parrents into getting it for me back in college when I had to take Circuits Lab I. I convinved them it would be cheaper than having to retake the class, since a good number of the meters in the lab never worked, and they had a nasty habit of handing you the wrong parts, especially caps. -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 15 06:49:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 06:48:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BE205F.CF1CDACD@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:42:40 -0700 From: John Butler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! References: <3.0.5.32.19980114144404.009502b0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Butler Count me in for a few. Now if I can just find the Star Wars game for them. John Anders Knudsen wrote: > At 12:44 PM 1/14/98 -0800, you wrote: > >Alright Anders! > > > >Count me in for 5-10 depending on what your "quantity" price break is. :-) > > Tallied in. > > >On a related note... I'm still fascinated with the idea of trying to > >upgrade a WG6100 to WG6400 performance specs. Soooo... > > Will get to this when I have the LV PCB sent to the fab. > > >National Semiconductor sells the LM317HVH. That's a "high voltage" version > >of the 317 and as such can regulate from 1.2-57V. (enough to get into the > >48V band the WG6400's looking for. ;-) Question for Anders: How much > >current do the 317/337 on your replacement board need to source? (The > >reason I ask is that the LM337HVH is a TO-93 and can only source a few > >hundred mA.) > > I'd have to look at my notes at home for exact numbers, but with a quick > back of the envelope calculation, I believe the source current is no more > than 100 to 200 mA. Any more than that and I think the pass transistor will > source a current high enough to blow the fuses. i.e., -- it is possible > that my current PCB will work with the HV versions of the LM regulators. > I'll take a closer look at it after I have finished the fab order. > > -Anders. > > ----------------------------------------- > | Anders Knudsen > | ASIC Design Engineer > | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center > | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com > | http://www.adaptec.com > ========================================= -- John Butler Mesa, AZ Collector of Classic Arcade Games and Pinball Machines From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 15 08:31:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:31:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:33:05 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Decent little cap tester... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >Does this bugger do any tests other than basic capacitance measurement? Nope, just the value measurement. I haven't specifically looked for anything else. (It's kind-of a "I need it once a month" type device, so just basic value checks were all I was concerned about-- that and the Sencore's at work if I *really* want to test something. The little Jameco guy is handy to take into surplus shops for "looking" at unmarked or house-numbered parts though...) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 15 08:37:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:37:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:39:10 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Did you guys notice.... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > www.gamearchive.com/tech/spo-256/ > >If anyone wants to add to the docs there please let me know. >Also... BG has the spo-256's for sale for $4.95 The SP0250's were what we were specifically looking for. I'm still pretty sure that the '256 can be used with some hacking though. If anyone wants some 256's for whatever reason I've got a bunch at $2.50 a pop... (I was a long ways from home and saw them in a surplus place so I bought 'em even though I wasn't sure about the part number-- didn't want to be kicking myself for not getting them. :-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 15 08:51:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:51:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <34BE3E31.6C0A@an.hp.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:49:53 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Did you guys notice.... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Joel Rosenzweig Clay Cowgill wrote: > > The SP0250's were what we were specifically looking for. I'm still pretty > sure that the '256 can be used with some hacking though. If anyone wants > some 256's for whatever reason I've got a bunch at $2.50 a pop... (I was a > long ways from home and saw them in a surplus place so I bought 'em even > though I wasn't sure about the part number-- didn't want to be kicking > myself for not getting them. :-) > These chips are a lot of fun, especially if you get yourself the companion Text To Speech chip. I think it's the CTS256AL2. JDR Microdevices advertises this chip incorrectly as the SPO-256-Al2. I ordered one, because I was looking all over the place for it, and when it arrived, I was 'dissapointed.' I then located my long lost SPO256AL2, and found a data sheet for the CTS256AL2. I learned this was the text to speech companion chip, and was not dissapointed anymore. ;-) BG micro used to sell, (maybe they still do) a complete unit on an ISA card, that houses both of these chips, with the external RAM. You can plug it into an ISA slot for power only. It has a DB-25 for serial data input, and you can power it yourself from the edge connector. Anyway, this unit is great, because it was about $50, built, and works great. I found this, after I had wire wrapped something similar. Doh. So, I had to buy it. They sold this at least 2 years ago when I got mine, so they might still have them around. It even came with a 5.25 inch disk with silly DOS programs to demo it's capabilities. Joel- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 15 10:40:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:38:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:39:45 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Interesting "thing"... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Our marketing guys made a kinda interesting item... It's a little "advertisement" that slides into the curved face of a store shelf advertising some new modem/software stuff we're doing. The cool thing about it is what it's like-- it's silkscreen on white polystyrene film. Pretty much like some arcade game marquees (Atari's "slide in" marquees like the System 1, I Robot, some Pole Positions, etc.)! The polystyrene they used is a bit thicker (.01") than a game would use, but it passes light and looks pretty nice. They did a photo-graph style background so most of the colors are dithered, but it looks pretty cool. (From about 18" the colors look continuous, closer than that and you can see the screening, but that's true of a lot of game artwork.) Anyway, I have a company name and contact info, so I might check out how much it costs. (I think it's be cool to make a professional-looking multigame marquee... :-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 15 11:13:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:11:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <199801151111460790.005C12E7@mail.cris.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 2.30.23 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:11:46 -0800 From: "Warren 'Llama' Ernst" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Decent little cap tester... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Warren 'Llama' Ernst" On 1/14/98, at 11:06 PM, gonzothegreat@juno.com wrote: >On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:33:17 -0800 Clay Cowgill >writes: > >>Just some more info for any of you expanding your test gear. I was >making >>an order from Jameco the other day and saw their "BelMerit Capacitance >>Meter" (#140741) for $59.95... I decided to add it on to the order-- >when >>I called in the price was $49.95 (cool). >Has anybody here had any experience with any of the "cheap" cap ESR >testers? I do a lot of work with switcher PSUs and I wanted some opinions >before dropping some cash on the Dick Smith model. My meter has a cap tester, and I've been pleased with it. For the caps used ini a cap kit, it SEEMS to be able to tell me if a cap is good or not, and if it at least close to ite marked rating. What is it about these tools that differs from what me meter tells me? -Warr ------------------------------+---------------------------------------- Reviewer, "Windows Magazine" | Warren Ernst - warren@techie.com Author, "Using Netscape" | http://www.cris.com/~wernst/ "Internet 1997 Unleashed" (c) | Computer Journalist, Consultant, Author "Netscape 3 Unleashed"(contr) | Graphic Artist, Nerd "Presenting ActiveX" | Que and Sams.Net Publishing | "If it ain't broke, don't break it." ------------------------------+---------------------------------------- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 15 22:43:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:41:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <000601bd224a$384f7e60$2a0000df@Obie> From: "David Shoemaker" To: Subject: Re: Battlezone problem (Self test) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:44:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker" Has anyone ever disassembled BZ to figure out just what self test is doing? I have two boards (as I have said before) that when put into self test appear to be starting self test then watchdog out and reset (at about the time they should tone once and display data). But both boards run when not in test (though no display data). I would like to have a clue as to where the system thinks its going with the self test so I can get a clue as to where to start looking for the failure. The manual says ROM at B/C3 being bad might cause the self test to long tone and not display. But that is a known good ROM and this is not exactly that case. Yes I am going to keep asking questions of this alias until I die and am buried with these boards or finally fix them :) Sooner or later I am going to finally understand these damn things. Thanks, David From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 15 23:03:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:01:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BF04F8.1DB1@links.magenta.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:58:00 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Battlezone problem (Self test) References: <000601bd224a$384f7e60$2a0000df@Obie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey David Shoemaker wrote: > > Has anyone ever disassembled BZ to figure out just what self test is doing? > I have two boards (as I have said before) that when put into self test > appear to be starting self test then watchdog out and reset (at about the > time they should tone once and display data). But both boards run when not > in test (though no display data). > That is a strange one, it is usually the opposite. I have dissassembled the ST in battlezone once about a year ago. The reason I did it was because I was having some serious problems getting the board to run. It kept giving me bad RAM tones. But when I would replace that RAM, it would just indicate that another was bad. I put the RAM that I REMOVED from the BZ into a tempest and they were all good!! It was getting frustrating so I started to doubt the "integrity" of the RAM tone program in self test. Basically the self test goes through these steps... Sets up the Stack pointer Clears all the RAM Tests the RAM a chip at a time, a half byte at a time (since the 2114's are one 4 bits wide) tests the ROM tests the pokeys tests the EAROM. When I looked at the code for the RAM tests, it seemed very vague then I ran out of time to work on it. I decided to go with past experience and just start replacing the LS245's. Well, it worked. That was the problem. Flaky 245's... Ugggh. Hope that rant helped some though? jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 15 23:49:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:49:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <008e01bd2253$9b6417a0$2a0000df@Obie> From: "David Shoemaker" To: Cc: "Jess Askey" Subject: Re: Battlezone problem (Self test) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:51:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker" >> Has anyone ever disassembled BZ to figure out just what self test is doing? >> I have two boards (as I have said before) that when put into self test >> appear to be starting self test then watchdog out and reset (at about the >> time they should tone once and display data). But both boards run when not >> in test (though no display data). > >That is a strange one, it is usually the opposite. I have dissassembled >the ST in >battlezone once about a year ago. The reason I did it was because I was >having some > Sets up the Stack pointer > Clears all the RAM > Tests the RAM a chip at a time, a half byte at a time (since the >2114's are one 4 bits wide) > tests the ROM > tests the pokeys Pokeys on a BZ? > tests the EAROM. When you say EAROM what do you mean? >LS245's. Well, it worked. That was the >problem. Flaky 245's... Ugggh. I wish it was just bad ram. :( >Hope that rant helped some though? Its a start. Where does the displayed test screen come from though? Is it a small loop of code that runs the vector section or is there a "Ship" in the vector rom that is the display that it just keeps running through? I once had a board that only half the grid was displaying when I got the board fixed I was told it was a bad cap but they didn't say which one. So I am wondering if some of the test screen is literaly hard wired or is it all just normal display functions. David From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 16 04:53:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:35:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34B76B61.686B@idt.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:36:49 +0000 From: mayday19 Organization: Preferred Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IDT-v5 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: mayday19 Al Kossow wrote: > > I would think late production Sega games would have used > them too (Zektor?) Zektor was 3rd Sega vector game.. Tac/Scan and Star Trek came out after Zektor and they use G08s. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 16 05:02:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:29:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Phfarmer Message-ID: <38ed811c.34b7cb43@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:25:54 EST To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Video game parts... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Phfarmer Trying to restore a SEGA/Gremlin X-Y Vector Star Trek upright and unsuccessful in locating a 2N4093 JFET transistor for the sound board. You came recommended from mowerman@erols.com . If you can help me out in any way, please email Phfarmer@aol.com. Thanks.... Phil Farmer From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 16 05:06:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:21:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:21:04 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Zektor was 3rd Sega vector game.. Tac/Scan and Star Trek came out after Zektor and they use G08s." Do you know if "Battlestar" was ever released, or was it just a code name for Eliminator? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 16 05:12:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:59:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:57:33 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9801101457.ZM11440@calcite> In-Reply-To: aek@motgate.mot.com (Al Kossow) "Re: WG 19k6401" (Jan 10, 12:21pm) References: <199801102024.PAA25971@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mark Jenison From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 16 05:21:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:01:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:00:26 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9801101500.ZM11466@calcite> In-Reply-To: aek@motgate.mot.com (Al Kossow) "Re: WG 19k6401" (Jan 10, 12:21pm) References: <199801102024.PAA25971@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mark Jenison On Jan 10, 12:21pm, Al Kossow wrote: > Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 > "Zektor was 3rd Sega vector game.. Tac/Scan and Star Trek came out after > Zektor and they use G08s." > > Do you know if "Battlestar" was ever released, or was it just > a code name for Eliminator? Oh my, Al, don't you read the FAQ? ;-) "I have a flyer which promotes Sega X-Y Convert-a-Games that shows another X-Y game called Battle Star. It appears from the screen shots on the flyer that it is NOT a prototype game for Eliminator or Space Fury (the flyer shows a Space Fury being converted to a Battle Star). Even though Space Fury has a Battle star sound board, it is possible Battle Star itself was never released." The newest version of the FAQ will be 1.8 once I update the section on the new Eliminator 4-player flyer I found, and about Lee Bender finding a real Zektor. (and don't even ask me why I'm at work on a Saturday)... ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 16 05:23:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:08:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: "Jeffh" To: Subject: Re: WG 19k6401 Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:10:04 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd1e1c$e2a31ca0$5e2a40d1@jeff> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Jeffh" Anders has a photocopy of the manual for this monitor. It's NOT plug in compatible with the 6101. The connector is different and it runs on higher voltages. The HV unit only gets + (no -) There are also brightness controls, etc. on the deflection board. If you guys want, I'll get this thing scanned in and posted. -jeff jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ -----Original Message----- From: jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Cc: jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Date: Friday, January 09, 1998 11:17 PM Subject: WG 19k6401 > >Hey all, > > I'm trying to get my Cosmic Chasm up and running, and I >noticed that the monitor wasn't working, so when I took a look at >it, it didn't look like any Vector Monitor I'd ever seen before. > > Low and behold, when I took a look at the manual on spies, >it says that the game used a 19k6401 (it also said that it could >use a G08, but I know this one isn't a G08) > > So, does anybody have a manual/schematics for this thing? >Mine is currently broken :( There's no monitor information other >than the little paragraph saying which monitor it is, and saying >that it takes 100 VAC power input in the manual that is up on spies. > >Joe > > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 16 08:30:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:29:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:28:44 -0500 (EST) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Battlezone problem 2 - Electric Boogaloo In-Reply-To: <000601bd224a$384f7e60$2a0000df@Obie> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mitchell Rohde On my constant resetting problem, I've been tracing the watchdog circuit and looking at the signals with a scope (rather than the usual logic analyzer...). One of the gates in the circuit , located in K4 (if I remember offhand - I think that's right) had ok inputs, but an output with a serious slow-rise (capacitive). I replaced that chip (74LS10), but the capacitive rise remains. I'm thinking the inputs of the gate that one feeds may have a problem, and are providing the capacitance to cause the problem. Have any one of you guys seen the inputs of a gate cause this sort of thing? My next step is to look at the output of the chip I replaced unloaded (disconnected from the input of the next gate/chip).... Mitch From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 16 09:58:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:58:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:59:22 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: WG6401 schematic? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Did someone scan the 6400 schematic and post it somewhere this week? (Anders?) I don't remember seeing an announcement, but then my mail feed from this list seems a little chaotic lately... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 16 10:16:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:16:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980116111251.009d8770@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:12:51 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: WG6401 schematic? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 09:59 AM 1/16/98 -0800, you wrote: >Did someone scan the 6400 schematic and post it somewhere this week? >(Anders?) I don't remember seeing an announcement, but then my mail feed > from this list seems a little chaotic lately... Patience oh young grasshopper! ;-) ...i'm gettin to it. BTW: if it's alright with Al, I'll just go ahead and ftp the scans up onto spies. Then if Jess wants to add the info to his web site, he can go ahead with that. K? Also, I am going to finalize my PCB order with the fab for the LV2000 today. From the response I got, I am going to have to order a large lot! Anyhow, look for an "order form" similar to what Clay has posted in the past. I'll be putting up the order form this weekend! -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 16 14:12:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:12:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:13:26 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Datasheets for STK0050 and STK3042? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Anyone know where I can get datasheets for the STK-3042 and STK-0050? I found the pinouts in the NTE cross reference, but I'd like to see the "real" specs. Trivia: the Sanyo website is quite possibly the worst semiconductor manufacturer's website I've ever had the displeasure of trying to use... :-( -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 16 14:31:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:30:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980116152617.009aa8c0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:26:17 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: LV2000 order! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen FYI: you all won't be hearing from me over the weekend. The company IT group is taking the network down over the weekend, so I won't be able to send any mail until monday. I will post orderform with price info on Monday. Thanks, -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 16 15:25:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:25:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34BFEB9B.184C@links.magenta.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:22:03 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Cinematronics ROM's References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Well.. er. this is a bit off subject but do any of you have REV E Dragon's Lair ROM's? I can't find them anywhere on the net. Or taking Zonn's ;-) advice.... I want to make a universal CP wiring harness that will work in ALL cinematronics games including the laser games. Anyone have the ROM's? DOH!(homer) That isn't going to work either!! :-0 thanks jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 16 17:03:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:03:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:05:23 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: Video game parts... Cc: Phfarmer Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 2:25 PM 1/10/98, Phfarmer wrote: >Trying to restore a SEGA/Gremlin X-Y Vector Star Trek upright and unsuccessful >in locating a 2N4093 JFET transistor for the sound board. > >You came recommended from mowerman@erols.com . If you can help me out in any >way, please email Phfarmer@aol.com. I can send you a non-working sound board with a good (used) 2N4093 transistor on it for $30. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Jan 17 01:41:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:40:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <001601bd232c$66f66980$2a0000df@Obie> From: "David Shoemaker" To: Subject: Sources for AM6012 & LF13201 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:43:42 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker" Has anyone found a source for either of these chips? Preferably that doesn't want parts of my body I am not done with yet. I found one for the AM6012(F version) but they want 11.30 each. (http://www.marshall.com/dynamic/pdpage?m=phi&p=AM6012F) If anyone cares they also have the data sheet as a PDF. Newark also lists them (but are out of stock), they also want 12.87 each (http://www.part.net/cgi-bin/newark/DetailSrc?cst=nk&vendor=Newark&part=Newa rk%20Electronics&part_number=91F3680&partcat_id=9672&vendor_id=250&10005=91F 3680&key_attrs=10005) But I have found nothing on the LF13201 Has anyone thought about going with the alternate loading with the MC3410? Marshal lists them (out of stock lead time 56 days) but they only want 8.34 each (6.95 at the 100 qty). David From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Jan 17 19:16:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:15:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34C17365.7694@istar.ca> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:13:41 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Sources for AM6012 & LF13201 References: <001601bd232c$66f66980$2a0000df@Obie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson David Shoemaker wrote: > > Has anyone found a source for either of these chips? Preferably that > doesn't want parts of my body I am not done with yet. > > I found one for the AM6012(F version) but they want 11.30 each. > (http://www.marshall.com/dynamic/pdpage?m=phi&p=AM6012F) If anyone cares > they also have the data sheet as a PDF. > > Newark also lists them (but are out of stock), they also want 12.87 each > (http://www.part.net/cgi-bin/newark/DetailSrc?cst=nk&vendor=Newark&part=Newa > rk%20Electronics&part_number=91F3680&partcat_id=9672&vendor_id=250&10005=91F > 3680&key_attrs=10005) > > But I have found nothing on the LF13201 > > Has anyone thought about going with the alternate loading with the MC3410? > Marshal lists them (out of stock lead time 56 days) but they only want 8.34 > each (6.95 at the 100 qty). > > David Not having a clue what you are looking for, but would a LF13331 work? I have about ten or so left in stock. $10US each... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Jan 18 08:11:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:11:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:11:25 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: WG6401 schematic? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "BTW: if it's alright with Al, I'll just go ahead and ftp the scans up onto spies" ..fine with me (just digging out from a trip to SLC this weekend..) From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Jan 18 08:20:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:19:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:19:49 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Sources for AM6012 & LF13201 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) Was Jameco blowing out 13201s a while back? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Jan 18 10:03:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:03:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:04:44 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Sources for AM6012 & LF13201 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Jameco was blowing out LF13201's a while back for cheap... maybe $1.25 each? I bought a bunch fo 6012's a while back (only to find out that they were surface mount packages). I then just made a little circuit board that converts the SOIC to a DIP package. I still have some left-- $7.50 a pop if you want any. Probably $3 to ship. They work indentically-- just look a little different. ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Jan 18 10:06:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:06:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:08:05 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Sega Multigame-- minor delay Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Grrrrr... I was planning on spending this weekend building up Sega Multigames (got the PCB's on Friday), BUT. The boardhouse screwed up! (It actually wasn't my fault! I was amazed!) They swapped my .035" and .042" drill bits around, so I the headers don't fit in the holes. *sigh* Hopefully they won't give me any shit about it and just re-run the boards on Monday (I checked my outputs and it's definately their fault). -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Jan 18 23:38:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:37:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34C30277.3C27@istar.ca> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:36:23 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com CC: aek@spies.com Subject: Re: prom list References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Al Kossow wrote: > > here is a first pass at a prom reference > if someone has the pinouts for the cine roms > handy, i'd like to add it (all variants of them) > > ROM/RAM Reference Guide > V1.0 Nov, 1997 > > Bipolar PROMs > ------------- > > 32*8 > +------+ > O1 |1 16| Vcc > O2 |2 15| CE/ > O3 |3 14| A4 > O4 |4 13| A3 > O5 |5 12| A2 > O6 |6 11| A1 > O7 |7 10| A0 > GND|8 9| O8 > +------+ > Signetics MMI TI Harris Raytheon AMD National Intel > --------- --- -- ------ -------- --- -------- ----- > TS 82S123 (50ns) 6331-1 18S030 7603-5 - - - - > 82S123A(25ns) 63S081 - - - 27S19AC 74S288 - ... I have a list that I will have to send you. This is from MMI's Biploar LSI Data Book published in 1978. This crossreference covers the following manufacturers...: MMI, AMD, Fairchild, Harris, Intel, Intersel, Motorola, National, Raytheon, Signetics, And TI (plus some Fujitsu proms I've added). It covers 92 or MMI's Proms from the 6530-1 to the 63RS1641, with a breakdown between Open Collector (STD, S, PS, & LS) and Tri-State (STD, S, PS, & LS). EG: for the 6305-1 which is OC (STD) the subs are: AMD 27S12/29770, HARRIS HM-7620-5, Intel 3602A, Intersil 5604, Motorola MCM 7620, National DM74S570, Raytheon 29610, and Signetics N82S 130. How about I put a scan of this up on my web page and you can suck it over to Spies in a few days? John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 19 07:56:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:55:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <34C37743.339C@an.hp.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:54:43 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Sources for AM6012 & LF13201 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Joel Rosenzweig Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Jameco was blowing out LF13201's a while back for cheap... maybe $1.25 each? > > I bought a bunch fo 6012's a while back (only to find out that they were > surface mount packages). I then just made a little circuit board that > converts the SOIC to a DIP package. I still have some left-- $7.50 a pop > if you want any. Probably $3 to ship. > Is that $7.50 for the chip, or chip w/ socket? Or just the socket? ;-) Joel- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 19 08:14:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:14:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <34C37B88.6EDE@an.hp.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:12:56 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Troubleshooting References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Joel Rosenzweig Can someone confirm or deny that the DACs in Atari color games, let's say Star Wars at least, are setup to produce a change in "current" rather than a change in "voltage" at their output? Can someone describe what the "analog switch" is supposed to do in the context of the vector output circuitry? Which analog signals is it switching, and to where? Ok, last question for now. I have 4 Star Wars boardsets that all exhibit the same strange (to me at least) phenomenon. That is, they all render some of the letters in some text crookedly. I notice this particularly heavily when it draws the letter "A" in RED. The left side of the "A" is curved outwards. I get this same behavior on my WG monitors, and my Amplifones, all capped and operating normally. I don't see this problem with my Tempest on either monitor. I've checked this with a scope in XY mode, but the text was too small for me to tell if it was perfectly straight or not. The lack of Z axis control and hence the retrace lines did not help the clarity any. ;-) Otherwise, I wouldn't be bother y'all with this question. So, is this a board set problem, or is this just the way it is? It's been so long since I've seen another Star Wars machine operating, that I just don't remember. Thanks, Joel- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 19 08:26:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:26:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:25:51 -0500 (EST) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Battlezone Clock In-Reply-To: <34C37B88.6EDE@an.hp.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mitchell Rohde For all you Battlezoners out there... how clean is the clock signal on your board? Specifically, I looked at the signal generated by the crystal/inductor/transistor circuit, and it was a nice 12 MHz sine wave. This feeds a 7404, which I assume turns it into a square wave. Unfortunately, it is a pretty ugly square wave... more like a sine. I calibrated my scope and probe, so I don't think it's that distorting the signal. Any thoughts? Mitch From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 19 08:42:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:42:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:41:11 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9801191041.ZM10458@calcite> In-Reply-To: Mitchell Rohde "Battlezone Clock" (Jan 19, 11:25am) References: X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mark Jenison All, Since Clay will soon have the Sega XY multigame available (and since he forced my hand by making me dig some boards up for him ;-)), I thought I'd offer some Space Fury sound boards for those who would like to add Space Fury to their multigame. As a special offer to the vectorlist, I'm selling them for $15 a piece (tested working) this week only. Next week I'll post the rest for sale for $20+ (depending on availability). Each week I'll make a similar offer on another type of Sega XY board (as I get to each of them). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 19 09:53:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:53:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:51:17 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9801191151.ZM11393@calcite> In-Reply-To: Mark Jenison "Re: Sega Multigame" (Jan 19, 10:41am) References: <9801191041.ZM10458@calcite> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mark Jenison All, Just to clarify: $15 + S&H And though Space Fury does also need a speech board, I don't have any spares available at this time. I would though if someone could figure out this SPO-250 -> SPO-256 conversion. I'd be willing to donate some speechboards to the cause. Send me your address when ordering. Thanks! On Jan 19, 10:41am, Mark Jenison wrote: > Subject: Re: Sega Multigame > All, > > Since Clay will soon have the Sega XY multigame available (and since he forced > my hand by making me dig some boards up for him ;-)), I thought I'd offer some > Space Fury sound boards for those who would like to add Space Fury to their > multigame. As a special offer to the vectorlist, I'm selling them for $15 a > piece (tested working) this week only. Next week I'll post the rest for sale > for $20+ (depending on availability). > > Each week I'll make a similar offer on another type of Sega XY board (as I get > to each of them). From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 19 10:00:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:00:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:01:39 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Sources for AM6012 & LF13201 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >Clay Cowgill wrote: >> I bought a bunch fo 6012's a while back (only to find out that they were >> surface mount packages). I then just made a little circuit board that >> converts the SOIC to a DIP package. I still have some left-- $7.50 a pop >> if you want any. Probably $3 to ship. >Is that $7.50 for the chip, or chip w/ socket? Or just the socket? ;-) It's the whole little "module"-- chip mounted on the DIP adapter ready to install. I'm sure some people on this list have bought some (I had 100 and I'm down to about 20). Anybody install any yet? (I've been running them in my Tempest for probably a year or so... no different from the regular AM6012.) I'd been buying the LF13201's for a while (on and off), but I have my sell price at $2.50 each, so if Jameco has any for $1.25 still they're cheaper. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 19 10:53:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:53:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199801191853.NAA26284@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Troubleshooting To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:53:47 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <34C37B88.6EDE@an.hp.com> from "Joel Rosenzweig" at Jan 19, 98 11:12:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Paul Kahler > Can someone confirm or deny that the DACs in Atari color games, let's > say Star Wars at least, are setup to produce a change in "current" > rather than a change in "voltage" at their output? Yes. I recall seeing that in 1 or 2 schematics. The DAC outputs a current which is then fed to an OP-Amp to get a voltage. It's important to have a voltage, as that's what matters to the analog switch... > Can someone describe what the "analog switch" is supposed to do in the > context of the vector output circuitry? Which analog signals is it > switching, and to where? As I recall, the output of the DAC is not the beam position, but rather the velocity. To get beam position, there is another op-amp configured as an integrator - apply the "velocity" voltage and the position responds accordingly. To stop the beam, there is an analog switch which effectively zeros the velocity causing the position to stop changing even if the DAC still has some unwanted output. There are also some other analog switches which allow selection of +/-X or +/-Y position signals. Since upright games have no use for those signals, I thought it'd be cool to use them to switch in signals from somewhere else - like a cinematronics game - if you feed them in at that point, you get to use the Atari pincousion stuff. Just a thought... This is all from memory, so there may be something in error. Can anyone think of a correction? -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 19 13:21:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:20:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980119141748.009a2560@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:17:48 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: LV2000 Order Form Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen OK, the fab order is in. It will take about 3 weeks for them to complete the fab. If you send your order in now, I will not cash your check/money order until I ship the kit. The order form below is for vectorlist folks only. That is, you must be able to solder components on to a bare PCB. If you are unable to solder because of lack of equipment, etc. I will assemble it for you for a small fee. You may order several bare PCBs with parts and have me assemble one or more for you. The BARE LV2000 PCB comes with instructions for assembly and installation on the WG6100 monitor deflection PCB. The pricing is discounted based on the number ordered (see order form). The BAG-O-PARTS includes 2 .47uF tantalum caps, 2 10uF tantalum caps, 2 1uF tantalum caps, 4 1N4002 diodes, 2 1k trimpots, 2 240 ohm 1/4W resistors, 2 4.3k 1/4W resistors, 2 4.7k 1/4W resistors, 2 small red LEDs, 1 LM317T positive voltage regulator, 1 LM337T negative voltage regulator, 2 pieces of 22ga. insulated wire. Pricing is discounted based on the number ordered (see order form). Please print* and send the order form with your payment: * Use Courier font (or other mono-spaced font) when printing! ====================================================================== LV2000 Order Form ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DATE: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Send check or money order to: Anders Knudsen 2780 Calkins Place Broomfield, CO 80020 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ship to: __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PRICE EACH QUANTITY DESCRIPTION (circle one) TOTAL -------- ------------------ -------------- --------- [ ] BARE LV2000 PCBs (1) $10.00 (2-3) 9.00 (4-5) 8.00 (6-7) 7.50 (8-9) 7.00 (10+) 6.00 _________ [ ] BAG-O-PARTS (1-9) $ 8.00 (10+) 7.00 _________ [ ] ASSEMBLY (each) $ 5.00 _________ Sub-Total: _________ Shipping: 3.00 TOTAL: ========== ====================================================================== From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 19 14:53:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:52:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:53:47 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: LV2000 Order Form Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >The order form below is for vectorlist folks only. That is, you must be >able to solder components on to a bare PCB. Uhhhh, I don't know... I know some vectorlist people that might have trouble with that... ;-) Sorry, couldn't resist. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 19 16:14:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:14:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:15:35 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Troubleshooting Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >> Can someone confirm or deny that the DACs in Atari color games, let's >> say Star Wars at least, are setup to produce a change in "current" >> rather than a change in "voltage" at their output? > >Yes. I recall seeing that in 1 or 2 schematics. The DAC outputs a current >which is then fed to an OP-Amp to get a voltage. It's important to >have a voltage, as that's what matters to the analog switch... Paul's right. Atari uses current output DACs. >As I recall, the output of the DAC is not the beam position, but rather >the velocity. To get beam position, there is another op-amp configured >as an integrator - apply the "velocity" voltage and the position responds [...] >in signals from somewhere else - like a cinematronics game - if you feed >them in at that point, you get to use the Atari pincousion stuff. Just a >thought... > >This is all from memory, so there may be something in error. Can anyone >think of a correction? Right, Atari used the LF13201 analog switches to short the integrator caps resulting in a "return to center of screen" action for the AVG based systems (like Star Wars). Like Paul said, the analog switches were also used to route the voltage output through another inverting amplifier to produce a screen "flip" for the cocktail games. On older DVG based games (like Asteroids), the analog switches were not needed for integrator control (the vectors were directly generated by the DVG), but were instead used for "cocktail flip" as described above. Kind-of interesting to note that Atari would leave a lot of things "unpopulated" on some boards (presumably to cut costs), but never bothered to customize loading options for the PCB's for non-cocktail versions of the vector games... (I'd have to guess that they mostly shipped uprights, so it seems odd to burden the volume shipper with extra hardware costs...) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 19 16:18:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:18:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980119171709.00a06100@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:17:09 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: LV2000 Order Form In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 02:53 PM 1/19/98 -0800, you wrote: >>The order form below is for vectorlist folks only. That is, you must be >>able to solder components on to a bare PCB. > >Uhhhh, I don't know... I know some vectorlist people that might have >trouble with that... ;-) > >Sorry, couldn't resist. > >-Clay Uhm, like, cold solder joints suck. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 19 16:48:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:48:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB87@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Cc: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: Troubleshooting Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:32:32 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" So if I have a Battle Zone board (notice a pattern yet? :) with a problem at the first amp out from the DAC and I want to check the DAC output with my scope. I guess that I can't just go into XY mode on the scope and check the DAC output. So how would I check to make sure that is OK short of breadboarding a TL082 and using that to check my outputs? David > ---------- > From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:clayc@diamondmm.com] > Reply To: vectorlist@spies.com > Sent: Monday, January 19, 1998 4:15 PM > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: Clay Cowgill > Subject: Re: Troubleshooting > > >> Can someone confirm or deny that the DACs in Atari color games, let's > >> say Star Wars at least, are setup to produce a change in "current" > >> rather than a change in "voltage" at their output? > > > >Yes. I recall seeing that in 1 or 2 schematics. The DAC outputs a current > >which is then fed to an OP-Amp to get a voltage. It's important to > >have a voltage, as that's what matters to the analog switch... > > Paul's right. Atari uses current output DACs. > > >As I recall, the output of the DAC is not the beam position, but rather > >the velocity. To get beam position, there is another op-amp configured > >as an integrator - apply the "velocity" voltage and the position responds > [...] > >in signals from somewhere else - like a cinematronics game - if you feed > >them in at that point, you get to use the Atari pincousion stuff. Just a > >thought... > > > >This is all from memory, so there may be something in error. Can anyone > >think of a correction? > > Right, Atari used the LF13201 analog switches to short the integrator caps > resulting in a "return to center of screen" action for the AVG based > systems (like Star Wars). Like Paul said, the analog switches were also > used to route the voltage output through another inverting amplifier to > produce a screen "flip" for the cocktail games. > > On older DVG based games (like Asteroids), the analog switches were not > needed for integrator control (the vectors were directly generated by the > DVG), but were instead used for "cocktail flip" as described above. > > Kind-of interesting to note that Atari would leave a lot of things > "unpopulated" on some boards (presumably to cut costs), but never bothered > to customize loading options for the PCB's for non-cocktail versions of > the > vector games... (I'd have to guess that they mostly shipped uprights, so > it seems odd to burden the volume shipper with extra hardware costs...) > > -Clay > > Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager > _______________________________________________________________________ > /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com > \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ > > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 19 16:51:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:51:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:51:16 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: checking DAC outputs Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "So how would I check to make sure that is OK short of breadboarding a TL082 and using that to check my outputs?" if the DACs are socketed, swap the X and Y and see if the problem moves. if the DACs aren't socketed, put in sockets and go to step 1 :-) From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 19 16:57:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:57:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:58:44 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: LV2000 Order Form Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >Uhm, like, cold solder joints suck. Ahhh, I was thinking more along the lines of: "Well, I didn't have any LM317's so I just used a couple of TIP32s which fit. And I didn't have any caps left so I used some extra resistors-- they fit too so they must be OK. And I got tired of soldering all the little induhvidual pins so I just soldered them all together. For some reason it doesn't work. You must have screwed up and sent me a bad product." and... "I used a 100W wood burner tool with some pipe-solder, so some of those little copper lines came off the board-- but I replaced 'em with some 12ga copper core wire left over from wiring my house." (Wait, maybe those were just RGVAC people... Variations on the above were part of the reason I decided to only sell ESB and Sega kits pre-assembled... :-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 19 17:04:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:04:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:05:37 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: Troubleshooting Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >So if I have a Battle Zone board (notice a pattern yet? :) with a problem >at the first amp out from the DAC and I want to check the DAC output with >my scope. > >I guess that I can't just go into XY mode on the scope and check the DAC >output. > >So how would I check to make sure that is OK short of breadboarding a TL082 >and using that to check my outputs? Just a stab here, but couldn't you hang a couple resistors in series off the DAC output and tie the other end to ground? Then probe at the center resistor and see the voltage potential there? It'd probably work with just one too, but I'm working one something else and not actually thinking much at the moment... YMMV. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 19 17:27:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:27:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:29:51 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Cc: Mark Jenison Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 10:41 AM 1/19/98, Mark Jenison wrote: >All, > >Since Clay will soon have the Sega XY multigame available (and since he forced >my hand by making me dig some boards up for him ;-)), I thought I'd offer some >Space Fury sound boards for those who would like to add Space Fury to their >multigame. As a special offer to the vectorlist, I'm selling them for $15 a >piece (tested working) this week only. Next week I'll post the rest for sale >for $20+ (depending on availability). I'll take 2, please. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 19 17:27:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:27:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:29:31 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: Sega Multigame-- minor delay Cc: Clay Cowgill Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 10:08 AM 1/18/98, Clay Cowgill wrote: >Hopefully they won't give me any shit about it and just re-run the boards >on Monday (I checked my outputs and it's definately their fault). Don't forget to slip in the swapped signal fix for the previous mistake before they redo it! From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 07:35:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:34:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980120083135.009e2650@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:31:35 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: LV2000 Order Form In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 04:58 PM 1/19/98 -0800, you wrote: >>Uhm, like, cold solder joints suck. > >Ahhh, I was thinking more along the lines of: > >"Well, I didn't have any LM317's so I just used a couple of TIP32s which >fit. And I didn't have any caps left so I used some extra resistors-- they >fit too so they must be OK. And I got tired of soldering all the little >induhvidual pins so I just soldered them all together. For some reason it >doesn't work. You must have screwed up and sent me a bad product." > You're giving me nightmares!!! Yea, I thought about this, however, when I decided to offer the kit to the folks here on the vector list, the response I got was "well can you just sell me a bare pcb? I can put it together myself." To be honest, I'de rather sell the kits pre-assembled. Then I can test them and know that I'm sending a functioning unit. However, I can't do that for as cheap of a price as people want the kit for. The other caveat is that even if a sold a pre-assembled kit, the buyer still has to install the PCB onto the deflection board. This still involves removing parts, and soldering the new PCB down... So, in the instructions I will have a *disclaimer*...if you screw up soldering the parts on, well as they say "ce la vie!" >and... > >"I used a 100W wood burner tool with some pipe-solder, so some of those >little copper lines came off the board-- but I replaced 'em with some 12ga >copper core wire left over from wiring my house." > >(Wait, maybe those were just RGVAC people... Variations on the above were >part of the reason I decided to only sell ESB and Sega kits >pre-assembled... :-) > >-Clay Yea, anyone who gets the kit better not use those black five pound soldering *guns* that look like 44 magnum! On RGVAC, or rather RGVAM, the kit is only being offered pre-assembled. Also I am offering an installation option, that is, you send in your deflection PCB, I (or Jeff H) will install and test it with the new LV2000. Any other deflection fix will get fixed on a per problem basis. Since this is a simple kit (not as many solder points as your ESB or Sega retros), I am hoping that I won't get too many f#?& ups. If it does get too bad, I'll just cease the build-it-yourself kit, and only sell pre-assemble ones. I am going on the notion that most people here on vectorlist are competent enough to build this kit. At least anyone who has installed parts from a Zanen kit should have no problem. -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 08:30:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:30:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: LV2000 Order Form Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:30:42 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day Anders (and Clay), Well, I could be wrong since I've never seen Clay's handiwork, but your LV2000 sounds simpler. If you really are concerned about people assembling your boards properly, then put any extra time (yes, I'm referring to yours/mine/all of our's copious "spare time") into the instructions. Including a trouble shooting section with symptoms and likely mistakes that people made (and perhaps you found yourself doing while assembling PCBs) would save you many people calling you for help, too. Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com >---------- >From: Anders Knudsen[SMTP:Anders_Knudsen@btc.adaptec.com] >Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 7:31 AM >To: vectorlist@spies.com >Cc: Anders Knudsen >Subject: Re: LV2000 Order Form > >At 04:58 PM 1/19/98 -0800, you wrote: >>>Uhm, like, cold solder joints suck. >> >>Ahhh, I was thinking more along the lines of: >> >>"Well, I didn't have any LM317's so I just used a couple of TIP32s which >>fit. And I didn't have any caps left so I used some extra resistors-- they >>fit too so they must be OK. And I got tired of soldering all the little >>induhvidual pins so I just soldered them all together. For some reason it >>doesn't work. You must have screwed up and sent me a bad product." >> > >You're giving me nightmares!!! Yea, I thought about this, however, when I >decided to offer the kit to the folks here on the vector list, the response >I got was "well can you just sell me a bare pcb? I can put it together >myself." >To be honest, I'de rather sell the kits pre-assembled. Then I can test them >and know that I'm sending a functioning unit. However, I can't do that for >as cheap of a price as people want the kit for. >The other caveat is that even if a sold a pre-assembled kit, the buyer >still has to install the PCB onto the deflection board. This still involves >removing parts, and soldering the new PCB down... >So, in the instructions I will have a *disclaimer*...if you screw up >soldering the parts on, well as they say "ce la vie!" > >>and... >> >>"I used a 100W wood burner tool with some pipe-solder, so some of those >>little copper lines came off the board-- but I replaced 'em with some 12ga >>copper core wire left over from wiring my house." >> >>(Wait, maybe those were just RGVAC people... Variations on the above were >>part of the reason I decided to only sell ESB and Sega kits >>pre-assembled... :-) >> >>-Clay > >Yea, anyone who gets the kit better not use those black five pound >soldering *guns* that look like 44 magnum! >On RGVAC, or rather RGVAM, the kit is only being offered pre-assembled. >Also I am offering an installation option, that is, you send in your >deflection PCB, I (or Jeff H) will install and test it with the new LV2000. >Any other deflection fix will get fixed on a per problem basis. > >Since this is a simple kit (not as many solder points as your ESB or Sega >retros), I am hoping that I won't get too many f#?& ups. If it does get too >bad, I'll just cease the build-it-yourself kit, and only sell pre-assemble >ones. >I am going on the notion that most people here on vectorlist are competent >enough to build this kit. At least anyone who has installed parts from a >Zanen kit should have no problem. > >-Anders. > ----------------------------------------- >| Anders Knudsen >| ASIC Design Engineer >| Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center >| anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com >| http://www.adaptec.com > ========================================= > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 09:07:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:06:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:07:51 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: LV2000 Order Form Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >Since this is a simple kit (not as many solder points as your ESB or Sega >retros), I am hoping that I won't get too many f#?& ups. If it does get too >bad, I'll just cease the build-it-yourself kit, and only sell pre-assemble >ones. >I am going on the notion that most people here on vectorlist are competent >enough to build this kit. I agree, I'm just being grumpy. :-) After some of the stuff I've seen come back to me that "must be something wrong with the kit" I really have to wonder... In all fairness, when I did the original ESB "bag-o-parts" kits 90% had no problems at all. The remaining 10% however were enough of a hassle to make me change my mind about selling unassembled stuff for a while. There was an interesting "curve" on the ESB kit-- the people that jumped on it at first were very capable technically. After that it descended to more and more "consumer" level that needed a lot more hand-holding... I actually started making a "video" installation guide for the Sega Multigame (to post on the Web), but it's so stinking simple to put in I decided it wasn't worth it. >At least anyone who has installed parts from a Zanen kit should have no >problem. I have this pet theory that as many monitors die in novice hands from the results of a Zanen upgrade as are actually fixed, but it's only based on anecdotal evidence... ;-) Don't let me worry you about the LV2000 kit. I'm willing to bet you won't have any problems with it from Vectorlist. I think selling it pre-assembled to the Rest Of World is a smart move though. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 09:10:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:10:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:12:04 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: Troubleshooting Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill I was thinking about the Atari AVG last night... I think that the integrator is actually current fed, and it outputs the voltage. (Does that sound right Zonn?) If you probe the DAC output pin you'll see "something" if it's working-- I'm not sure it'll be recognizable as anything other than some periodic waveform since the integrator will be "connecting the dots" to form the actual images. You can at least look at each DAC output (X and Y) and compare if they look similar or not-- that would give you a basic feel if the DAC in question is working or not. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 10:07:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:07:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980120110454.00a30900@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:04:54 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: RE: LV2000 Order Form In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 08:30 AM 1/20/98 -0800, you wrote: >G'day Anders (and Clay), > >Well, I could be wrong since I've never seen Clay's handiwork, but your >LV2000 sounds simpler. If you really are concerned about people >assembling your boards properly, then put any extra time (yes, I'm >referring to yours/mine/all of our's copious "spare time") into the >instructions. Including a trouble shooting section with symptoms and >likely mistakes that people made (and perhaps you found yourself doing >while assembling PCBs) would save you many people calling you for help, >too. > > Steven S Ozdemir > sso@dsc.com That is in the works. The instructions should be very good. There will be pictures, and yes, some trouble shooting/avoid this mistake section. -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 10:27:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:27:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980120112545.009b6400@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:25:45 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! In-Reply-To: <34c146df.284898135@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980114155304.00a4b100@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114150312.0096b950@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114115212.009f6330@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114150312.0096b950@btc.btc.adaptec.com> <3.0.5.32.19980114155304.00a4b100@btc.btc.adaptec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 11:24 PM 1/14/98 GMT, Zonn wrote: >>One thing that I had thought would help protect both the power pass >>transistors, and the deflection transistors, would be to add a TVS >>(transient voltage suppressor) accross the collector-emitter. This would >>clamp any voltage spikes. It is just a matter of soldering one directly >>across the ce of the transistor! >>-Anders > >I like the idea, are the TVS's fast enough to protect the transistors? > >-Zonn Hey all interested, I looked into the TVS's (Transient Voltage Suppressors) which may be a solution to suppressing transient voltage spikes across the ce of the deflection (and/or LV power) transistors. FYI, a TVS is basically like a zener diode. That is, it has a reverse break down curve to sink any spike. Here are some specs for consideration: They are *very* fast, clamping time less than 1 pico second! Peak pulse power dissipation: 1500W Steady state power dissipation: 5W Forward Surge Current, 50ms, 200A Have various breakdown voltages; some to consider are: 27V, 30V, 33V, 51V, 68V They come in a large diode package (DO-201) so could easily just be soldered directly onto the transistor socket. Are relatively inexpensive: $1.36 each for the ones I am looking at. Thoughts? -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 10:53:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:53:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:53:02 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Here are some specs for consideration: They are *very* fast, clamping time less than 1 pico second! Peak pulse power dissipation: 1500W Steady state power dissipation: 5W Forward Surge Current, 50ms, 200A Have various breakdown voltages; some to consider are: 27V, 30V, 33V, 51V, 68V They come in a large diode package (DO-201) so could easily just be soldered directly onto the transistor socket. Are relatively inexpensive: $1.36 each for the ones I am looking at. Thoughts? -Anders. " Sounds great! I have two breadboards that I started to put together a while back with a WG and G08 deflection board on each so that I can easily bench test them and get at everything under load. It would be simple to add them in to get before/after scope traces.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 11:17:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:16:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:17:31 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >Have various breakdown voltages; some to consider are: 27V, 30V, 33V, 51V, 68V >They come in a large diode package (DO-201) so could easily just be >soldered directly onto the transistor socket. >Are relatively inexpensive: $1.36 each for the ones I am looking at. Those are the Diodes, Inc. ones? (LiteOn) General Instruments makes them too-- little different voltage selections: 24V 27V 30V 33V 36V 39V (and then 51V and 68V) In 10's they're $1.15 a pop. Singles are $1.28. Do you think we're really need 1500W peak dissipation? 600W unidirectional ones are only $.68 each in the above voltage ranges... Anyone have any idea what a good clamping voltage would be? I don't even know what to expect across CE on the transistors. Maybe 30V? What's rated breakdown on the CE junction on a 3792 or 3716? (Hey Anders, get that 6400 schematic scanned yet? ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 11:20:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:20:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980120132050.009b3100@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:20:51 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Bulletproof your G-08!!! (Pipe dreaming) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) OK, I will be the first to admit that some of the things ya'll talk about go way over my head - that is why I am coming to the group for help. As I was catching one of my G-08's on fire last night, I was thinking how nice it would be to put together a definitive upgrade for these pieces of sh*t. With Clay's multigame rolling out and an apparent rise in the popularity of vector games in general, I think that it would be well worth some of our time to look into this ... I'm not going to speak for the group, but I know that I would pay good money for a G-08 upgrade (maybe a good platform to design a whole new deflection board around, hint, hint...) Anyways, I just thought that maybe I could churn up some interest and get yet another project moving... Mit From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 11:20:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:20:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980120121520.00a378b0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:15:20 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Bulletproof your WG6100! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 10:53 AM 1/20/98 -0800, Al wrote: >>"Here are some specs for consideration: >>They are *very* fast, clamping time less than 1 pico second! >>Peak pulse power dissipation: 1500W >>Steady state power dissipation: 5W >>Forward Surge Current, 50ms, 200A >>Have various breakdown voltages; some to consider are: 27V, 30V, 33V, 51V, 68V >>They come in a large diode package (DO-201) so could easily just be >>soldered directly onto the transistor socket. >>Are relatively inexpensive: $1.36 each for the ones I am looking at. >> >>Thoughts? >>-Anders. >>" > > >Sounds great! I have two breadboards that I started to put together >a while back with a WG and G08 deflection board on each so that I >can easily bench test them and get at everything under load. It >would be simple to add them in to get before/after scope traces.. > Well shit! If you are willing to take this on and test them, since it sounds like you already have a testbench setup, then go for it! You can get the TVSs from DigiKey -- look in the DigiKey catalog index for TVS(Transient Voltage Suppressors). The ones I was looking at are the 1500W unidirectional type -- probably best to get the highest power rating! For the WG, either the 33V -- DigiKey p/n 1.5KE33ADICT-ND $1.36, or the 51V -- DigiKey p/n 1.5KE51ADICT-ND $1.36. The breakdown voltage should be some factor higher than the max operating voltage so we don't clamp the picture -- like maybe 1.2 times the max operating voltage and then round up to the nearest device available. Then it would be cool to look at some scope traces for with and without TVSs. -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 11:37:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:37:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:37:10 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your G-08!!! (Pipe dreaming) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "I'm not going to speak for the group, but I know that I would pay good money for a G-08 upgrade (maybe a good platform to design a whole new deflection board around, hint, hint...)" yup... I'm tired of fixing them too.. The first thing would be to try to find schematics to the late rev of the G08 board, where the kludge towers for current limiting were removed, and all the obsolete MPS Uxx parts were replaced. I need to go through my pile of bad deflection transistors and see exactly how they fail. From my last conversation about this with the guy in the next cube over, he suspected base->emitter faults due to the junction being reverse biased due to high voltage 'flyback' at high slew rates. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 11:40:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:40:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:40:54 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your G-08!!! (Pipe dreaming) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) replying to my own message.. "The first thing would be to try to find schematics to the late rev of the G08 board, where the kludge towers for current limiting were removed, and all the obsolete MPS Uxx parts were replaced." what I actually meant was replacing the MPS parts on the REPLACEMENT PCB, not that the late rev G08's had replaced them.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 11:45:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:45:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:44:14 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9801201344.ZM3824@calcite> In-Reply-To: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) "Bulletproof your G-08!!! (Pipe dreaming)" (Jan 20, 1:20pm) References: <3.0.32.19980120132050.009b3100@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your G-08!!! (Pipe dreaming) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mark Jenison On Jan 20, 1:20pm, Mit Matelske wrote: > Subject: Bulletproof your G-08!!! (Pipe dreaming) > > I was thinking how nice it would be to put together > a definitive upgrade for these pieces of sh*t. I second that motion, but I think in order to upgrade your monitor, it would have to be in working condition first, and I think we've got more broken G08's out there than working ones. So maybe we need to work on a repair kit/FAQ before we start talking upgrades. FYI, the Zanen kit has a few caps in it that that are *under* spec'd, so don't install these things blindly. Also, the transistors they provide in the kit aren't the right ones. Through fixing mine last month, I did learn a few things: 1) Check for cracked/broken solder traces/joints and header pins (especially any leading to the HV section) 2) Don't let the heat sinks for the transistors on the deflection board touch (oops). 3) If your 20W resistors are melting, you've got bad deflection transistors :-( ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 11:47:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:47:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:47:03 GMT X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: RE: LV2000 Order Form Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) I'm putting in overtime trying to make the manual as complete as possible. I'm using scans from the monitor manual as well as including pictures of different steps. The hardest part is coming up with a good trouble shooting section. I've been trying to think of all the different "mistakes" somebody could make and how to track them down. I've assembled half a dozen of these things so far (different prototype boards) and havn't had ANY trouble yet. So far the only possible problems we can come up with are 1) assembly problems: a) bad solder joints or shorts across traces b) installing parts in the wrong place With a solder mask on the board, it should make soldering a whole lot easier. Also, the PCB (and docs) are well marked with what goes where and how it goes there. 2) Other problems on the deflection board I imagine that most kits will be installed on non-working monitors, which probably should fix the problem "most" of the time, but not always. Most xy monitors that I've fixed (before the LV2000 and with it) the problem was only in the LV section, but there have been a handfull that had a bad deflection transistor which in turn blew out the LV section. So in the documentation we are suggesting that everyone at least check the deflection transistors if this kit is REPAIRING a non-working monitor. In some ways it would be kind of like installing Clays ESB kit in a non-working star wars board and expecting it to fix the problem. -jeff >G'day Anders (and Clay), > >Well, I could be wrong since I've never seen Clay's handiwork, but your >LV2000 sounds simpler. If you really are concerned about people >assembling your boards properly, then put any extra time (yes, I'm >referring to yours/mine/all of our's copious "spare time") into the >instructions. Including a trouble shooting section with symptoms and >likely mistakes that people made (and perhaps you found yourself doing >while assembling PCBs) would save you many people calling you for help, >too. > > Steven S Ozdemir > sso@dsc.com > >>---------- jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 11:48:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:48:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:48:21 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Bulletproof your G-08!!! (Pipe dreaming) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "3) If your 20W resistors are melting, you've got bad deflection transistors :-(" Has anyone found a source for 20W non-inductive resistors? I'm even having trouble finding 10W ones to double up.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 12:14:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:13:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: LV2000 Order Form To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:22:56 -0700 (MST) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hendrix" at Jan 20, 98 07:47:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <34c515b00.395b@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 875 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Kurt Mahan" > I'm putting in overtime trying to make the manual as complete as possible. > I'm using scans from the monitor manual as well as including pictures of > different steps. > The hardest part is coming up with a good trouble shooting section. I've > been trying to think of all the different "mistakes" somebody could make > and how to track them down. I've assembled half a dozen of these things so > far (different prototype boards) and havn't had ANY trouble yet. > > So far the only possible problems we can come up with are > 1) assembly problems: > a) bad solder joints or shorts across traces > b) installing parts in the wrong place I'd also put in a section on identifying the components (from experience watching others assembly things..) Explain a few things like "it matters how you install an LED" (and how to look for the short lead/flat side/etc..) Kurt From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 13:34:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:34:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980120153459.009b8dc0@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:35:01 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: Bulletproof your G-08!!! (Pipe dreaming) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) At 11:48 AM 1/20/98 -0800, you wrote: >"3) If your 20W resistors are melting, you've got bad deflection transistors :-(" > >Has anyone found a source for 20W non-inductive resistors? >I'm even having trouble finding 10W ones to double up.. > That reminds me, do ya'll use 20 watt babies (? resistance) in lew of the hacked up / tied together / just waiting to short out pair of resistors. Last night I was adjusting my foil heat-sinks and thinking how I need to replace so damn many things on that d-board. Mit btw - what's the best source for 6259's? (I only need what seems like a million...) From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 15:22:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:21:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:22:24 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: TVS suppression on deflection transistors... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Our San Jose office seems to have pulled their heads out finally so maybe my e-mail is working again... :-) Anyway. I took some quick measurements on the deflection transistors of my Empire Strikes Back game with the game running in attract mode. Looks like there's about 24-29V across them depending on what's going on at any given point of the display. (The ESB board was adjusted to generate an image that pretty much filled the CRT. Probably a bit larger than "recommended".) Given that info, I'd say maybe I should try some 33V TVS' and see there's any side-effects. They have a minimum trigger of around 31.4V and a max around 34.7. The 30V guys would probably clamp too low (around 28.5V) for "normal" operation of the monitor. Guess I need to come up with some other stuff to buy from DigiKey... ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 15:36:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:36:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34C53130.2729@erols.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:20:16 -0500 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: LV2000 Order Form References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kev Ozdemir, Steve wrote: > > G'day Anders (and Clay), > > Well, I could be wrong since I've never seen Clay's handiwork, but your > LV2000 sounds simpler. If you really are concerned about people > assembling your boards properly, then put any extra time (yes, I'm > referring to yours/mine/all of our's copious "spare time") into the > instructions. Including a trouble shooting section with symptoms and > likely mistakes that people made (and perhaps you found yourself doing > while assembling PCBs) would save you many people calling you for help, > too. Very good point. Clay did a great job of documenting his ESB kits. > >I am going on the notion that most people here on vectorlist are competent > >enough to build this kit. At least anyone who has installed parts from a > >Zanen kit should have no problem. Hmmm is there some way one could "qualify" as a kit builder person? I enjoy putting things together & also enjoy the lower cost & then if I need to troubleshoot my work then I have even more fun! -- Kev Looking for a few good PCBs! mowerman@erols.com REMOVE THE "?" FROM MY E-MAIL http://www.erols.com/mowerman <- Video game info page From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 15:56:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:56:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980120165412.0098d100@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:54:12 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: TVS suppression on deflection transistors... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 03:22 PM 1/20/98 -0800, you wrote: >Our San Jose office seems to have pulled their heads out finally so maybe >my e-mail is working again... :-) > >Anyway. I took some quick measurements on the deflection transistors of my >Empire Strikes Back game with the game running in attract mode. Looks like >there's about 24-29V across them depending on what's going on at any given >point of the display. (The ESB board was adjusted to generate an image >that pretty much filled the CRT. Probably a bit larger than >"recommended".) > >Given that info, I'd say maybe I should try some 33V TVS' and see there's >any side-effects. They have a minimum trigger of around 31.4V and a max >around 34.7. The 30V guys would probably clamp too low (around 28.5V) for >"normal" operation of the monitor. > >Guess I need to come up with some other stuff to buy from DigiKey... ;-) > >-Clay Hey Al, were you going to get a couple of these and try getting some before/after scope traces to see how they performed? -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 16:01:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:01:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:01:31 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: TVS suppression on deflection transistors... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Hey Al, were you going to get a couple of these and try getting some before/after scope traces to see how they performed?" ..sounds like clay is going to beat me to it although what i'm REALLY interested in is determining exactly WHY the transistors fail, and why Electrohome kept putting bigger transistors in each revision of the monitor. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 16:33:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:13:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: LV2000 Order Form To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:22:56 -0700 (MST) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hendrix" at Jan 20, 98 07:47:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <34c515b00.395b@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 875 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Kurt Mahan" > I'm putting in overtime trying to make the manual as complete as possible. > I'm using scans from the monitor manual as well as including pictures of > different steps. > The hardest part is coming up with a good trouble shooting section. I've > been trying to think of all the different "mistakes" somebody could make > and how to track them down. I've assembled half a dozen of these things so > far (different prototype boards) and havn't had ANY trouble yet. > > So far the only possible problems we can come up with are > 1) assembly problems: > a) bad solder joints or shorts across traces > b) installing parts in the wrong place I'd also put in a section on identifying the components (from experience watching others assembly things..) Explain a few things like "it matters how you install an LED" (and how to look for the short lead/flat side/etc..) Kurt From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 16:54:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:54:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:56:13 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: TVS suppression on deflection transistors... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill >"Hey Al, were you going to get a couple of these and try getting some >before/after scope traces to see how they performed?" > >..sounds like clay is going to beat me to it Except it'll just be like a car-alarm to me. If it does it's job, I'll feel like I just wasted my money on it. I'm just trying to entertain myself while I wait for Sega Multigame boards and that WG6400 schematic. ;-) I need to order some parts from Digikey anyway, so I'll grab some TVS' while I'm at it. I'm not real sure how to "test" them though-- other than put 'em on the Sencore and see if they really do trigger at the rated voltage (and then put them on a WG and see if they "clamp" any actual vectors or something). -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 16:59:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:59:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:59:23 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: TVS suppression on deflection transistors... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "I'm not real sure how to "test" them though-- other than put 'em on the Sencore and see if they really do trigger at the rated voltage" I assume they act like varistors.. You could put them on a curve tracer, too. If you feel really gutsy, drive the WG from a function generator and increase the slew rate while watching the high side of the deflection yoke and see if you see it 'ring' at all From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 17:01:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:01:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:01:37 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: TVS suppression on deflection transistors... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) oops, forgot to ask... Do you have any way before you place the order to measure the voltage on a G08? Since the resistance of the yoke path to ground is quite low on X/Y's, I would expect that you'd see swings from near ground to near the supply rails across the deflection transistors.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 17:04:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:04:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:04:42 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: where to place the TVS Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) ..um, the other thing I was just thinking is wouldn't you put the TVS from the high side of the yoke to GROUND? Are these devices like varistors? Are they going to work with bipolar voltage swings? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 20 17:10:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:10:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:11:16 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: LF13201, 7497's Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill FYI, Jameco's out of LF13201's... Last I checked they did have some 7497's left (Binary Rate Multipliers-- like for Asteroids) those were pretty-much single sourced from TI and are discontinued and on closeout from Jameco. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 21 06:50:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 06:50:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980121074908.0099f6a0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:49:08 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: TVS suppression on deflection transistors... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 04:56 PM 1/20/98 -0800, you wrote: >>"Hey Al, were you going to get a couple of these and try getting some >>before/after scope traces to see how they performed?" >> >>..sounds like clay is going to beat me to it > >Except it'll just be like a car-alarm to me. If it does it's job, I'll >feel like I just wasted my money on it. I'm just trying to entertain >myself while I wait for Sega Multigame boards and that WG6400 schematic. >;-) Clay, I am scanning the 6400 schematics now. I am having to scan them pretty large to get anything that looks worth a damn. Will put them up on spies soon. BTW: the scans *will* look as good as possible to my copies. I was a scanner operator in pre ee days, so I knows whats I'm doin'. :-) -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 21 06:51:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 06:51:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980121075026.009ae6b0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:50:26 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: where to place the TVS In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 05:04 PM 1/20/98 -0800, Al wrote: > >..um, the other thing I was just thinking is wouldn't >you put the TVS from the high side of the yoke to >GROUND? Are these devices like varistors? Are they >going to work with bipolar voltage swings? > They make both uni- and bi-directional TVSs. -Anders ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 21 15:30:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:29:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:31:02 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Need any SP0250's? (!) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Ok, it's not 100% official yet, but I got a voicemail from one of the parts-scroungers I have searching for "things" that she found 76 pieces of the SP0250 somewhere. (!) (That's the speech chip from the Sega vector games for those of you that don't know part numbers off the top of your heads. ;-) I don't know price or any other details yet, but I have a feeling I'll have to buy the whole lot (or at least a few hundred bucks worth) to get 'em. Soooo... If you'd like any, please let me know. I'll make a wild-ass guess and say they'll probably be around $15-30 a pop. I don't know how much bargaining room I'll have since they're obsolete and (she knows) hard to find. (Actually, you might want to tell me a range like-- "I'd take ten at $5 each, 5 if they're $10-20, and two if they're over $20". Maybe we'll get lucky on the price-- I'll probably take the "gee, we really needed more than that, but I guess I can take these if the price is right" angle... Worth a shot. ;-) Keeping my fingers crossed, -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 21 15:47:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:47:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB98@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Cc: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: Need any SP0250's? (!) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:46:22 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" How about this: $50 worth. David > ---------- > From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:clayc@diamondmm.com] > Reply To: vectorlist@spies.com > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 3:31 PM > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: Clay Cowgill > Subject: Need any SP0250's? (!) > > Ok, it's not 100% official yet, but I got a voicemail from one of the > parts-scroungers I have searching for "things" that she found 76 pieces of > the SP0250 somewhere. (!) (That's the speech chip from the Sega vector > games for those of you that don't know part numbers off the top of your > heads. ;-) > > I don't know price or any other details yet, but I have a feeling I'll > have > to buy the whole lot (or at least a few hundred bucks worth) to get 'em. > Soooo... > > If you'd like any, please let me know. I'll make a wild-ass guess and say > they'll probably be around $15-30 a pop. I don't know how much bargaining > room I'll have since they're obsolete and (she knows) hard to find. > > (Actually, you might want to tell me a range like-- "I'd take ten at $5 > each, 5 if they're $10-20, and two if they're over $20". Maybe we'll get > lucky on the price-- I'll probably take the "gee, we really needed more > than that, but I guess I can take these if the price is right" angle... > Worth a shot. ;-) > > Keeping my fingers crossed, > -Clay > > Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager > _______________________________________________________________________ > /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com > \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ > > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 21 15:57:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:57:33 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:56:08 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9801211756.ZM26526@calcite> In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "Need any SP0250's? (!)" (Jan 21, 3:31pm) References: X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Need any SP0250's? (!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mark Jenison Clay, I've known where a source for SP0250's have been for a long time, but I've never bothered getting them because of their price: somewhere around $20 per chip. But as I've said, I never bothered getting them because I could barely sell a speech board for that price. It just wasn't feasible. I still think someone should look into seeing if we can get the cheaper and more common SP0-256 chip to work instead and save us all some money... On Jan 21, 3:31pm, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Subject: Need any SP0250's? (!) > Ok, it's not 100% official yet, but I got a voicemail from one of the > parts-scroungers I have searching for "things" that she found 76 pieces of > the SP0250 somewhere. (!) (That's the speech chip from the Sega vector > games for those of you that don't know part numbers off the top of your > heads. ;-) > > I don't know price or any other details yet, but I have a feeling I'll have > to buy the whole lot (or at least a few hundred bucks worth) to get 'em. > Soooo... > > If you'd like any, please let me know. I'll make a wild-ass guess and say > they'll probably be around $15-30 a pop. I don't know how much bargaining > room I'll have since they're obsolete and (she knows) hard to find. > > (Actually, you might want to tell me a range like-- "I'd take ten at $5 > each, 5 if they're $10-20, and two if they're over $20". Maybe we'll get > lucky on the price-- I'll probably take the "gee, we really needed more > than that, but I guess I can take these if the price is right" angle... > Worth a shot. ;-) > > Keeping my fingers crossed, > -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 21 16:04:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:03:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-CriticalPath-Sent: 22 Jan 1998 00:03:10 GMT Message-ID: <34C687CB.2CC7@netconx.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:42:03 -0600 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Need any SP0250's? (!) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Todd Miller Clay Cowgill wrote: > > > If you'd like any, please let me know. I'll make a wild-ass guess and say > they'll probably be around $15-30 a pop. I don't know how much bargaining > room I'll have since they're obsolete and (she knows) hard to find. > I could use 3 or 4, then again it depends on the price. like David said....$50 worth or so. -- Thanks Todd Miller http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 21 17:10:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:09:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:11:27 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Need any SP0250's? (!) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Sorry for the resend-- mail problems here. If you want to send me a message about this, please send it to: clay@supra.com ----- Ok, it's not 100% official yet, but I got a voicemail from one of the parts-scroungers I have searching for "things" that she found 76 pieces of the SP0250 somewhere. (!) (That's the speech chip from the Sega vector games for those of you that don't know part numbers off the top of your heads. ;-) I don't know price or any other details yet, but I have a feeling I'll have to buy the whole lot (or at least a few hundred bucks worth) to get 'em. Soooo... If you'd like any, please let me know. I'll make a wild-ass guess and say they'll probably be around $15-30 a pop. I don't know how much bargaining room I'll have since they're obsolete and (she knows) hard to find. (Actually, you might want to tell me a range like-- "I'd take ten at $5 each, 5 if they're $10-20, and two if they're over $20". Maybe we'll get lucky on the price-- I'll probably take the "gee, we really needed more than that, but I guess I can take these if the price is right" angle... Worth a shot. ;-) Keeping my fingers crossed, -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 21 21:33:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:33:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-CriticalPath-Sent: 22 Jan 1998 05:32:18 GMT Message-ID: <34C6D95A.32CA@netconx.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:30:02 -0600 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: News group find ! NOS Star Trek kit ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Todd Miller I saw this in the news group ! http://www.mindspring.com/~jimrogers/trek/ I wonder how much this will go for ? any one deal with Jim Rogers before ? -- Thanks Todd Miller http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 21 21:41:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:40:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB9D@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com, "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Cc: Todd Miller Subject: RE: News group find ! NOS Star Trek kit ! Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:39:56 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" Name sounds familiar but other than that. Last one of these I heard about went for something ridicules like $400+. David > ---------- > From: Todd Miller[SMTP:litterbox@netconx.net] > Reply To: vectorlist@spies.com > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 9:30 PM > To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > Cc: Todd Miller > Subject: News group find ! NOS Star Trek kit ! > > I saw this in the news group ! > > http://www.mindspring.com/~jimrogers/trek/ > > I wonder how much this will go for ? > any one deal with Jim Rogers before ? > > -- > > Thanks > > Todd Miller > > http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 21 21:41:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:41:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDB9D@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com, "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Cc: Todd Miller Subject: RE: News group find ! NOS Star Trek kit ! Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:39:56 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" Name sounds familiar but other than that. Last one of these I heard about went for something ridicules like $400+. David > ---------- > From: Todd Miller[SMTP:litterbox@netconx.net] > Reply To: vectorlist@spies.com > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 9:30 PM > To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > Cc: Todd Miller > Subject: News group find ! NOS Star Trek kit ! > > I saw this in the news group ! > > http://www.mindspring.com/~jimrogers/trek/ > > I wonder how much this will go for ? > any one deal with Jim Rogers before ? > > -- > > Thanks > > Todd Miller > > http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 21 22:05:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:05:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:05:30 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: News group find ! NOS Star Trek kit ! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) ..and it was NEVER DELIVERED!!! I tried to buy it, and it was IMPOSSIBLE to arrange shipping From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 21 22:15:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:15:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:15:14 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: NOS Trek kit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) ray@mayo.edu has PAID for what I can only assume is this kit, and has never been delivered. I tried for two months to arrange to have it shipped to me and pay ray for it, and it was impossible short of flying out there to make it happen. I even tried to get Dave Countryman to broker the deal for me (since he's out there) but the guy wouldn't deal with Dave. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 02:47:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 02:47:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34C74E4E.6754@erols.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:49:02 -0800 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kev Al Kossow wrote: > > ray@mayo.edu has PAID for what I can only assume > is this kit, and has never been delivered. I tried > for two months to arrange to have it shipped to me > and pay ray for it, and it was impossible short of > flying out there to make it happen. I even tried > to get Dave Countryman to broker the deal for me > (since he's out there) but the guy wouldn't deal > with Dave. Isn't Jim Rodgers in Georgia, near Two Bit Kid and Mike Mixon? Sounds like a dangerous mix..... -- Kev http://www.erols.com/mowerman <- Coin Op Video Game site REMOVE "?" FROM MY E-MAIL Looking for any Pac Man info & a few good PCBs... From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 03:41:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 03:40:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34C72FF0.7A696CFD@telis.org> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 03:39:28 -0800 From: Bill Esquivel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: News group find ! NOS Star Trek kit ! References: <34C6D95A.32CA@netconx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Bill Esquivel jim rogers is probably the same J M rogers that I think is from stone mountain Georgia. I think he was the source of boards behind the neatojunk sales... Now I don't want to bad mouth the guy as I did get the space lords boardset I ordered. The best part was that board worked. SO, bid accordingly... Also, keep inmind that I think the videotopia guy supposedly found a NEW in the box dedicated star trek and it was dead upon first plug in!! Considering how fast sega monitors flame, I would think any doa unit you find would be just about new... Todd Miller wrote: > I saw this in the news group ! > > http://www.mindspring.com/~jimrogers/trek/ > > I wonder how much this will go for ? > any one deal with Jim Rogers before ? > > -- > > Thanks > > Todd Miller > > http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 07:19:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:19:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199801221517.JAA01890@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 09:17:50 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit References: Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Ray Ghanbari You wrote: > ray@mayo.edu has PAID for what I can only assume > is this kit, and has never been delivered. I tried > for two months to arrange to have it shipped to me > and pay ray for it, and it was impossible short of > flying out there to make it happen. I even tried > to get Dave Countryman to broker the deal for me > (since he's out there) but the guy wouldn't deal > with Dave. This whole story has been an epic worthy of Homer (take your pick of the Greek guy or Simpson) Needless to say, it would be real nice to get the kit and not lose out on the $$. Ray From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 07:44:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:44:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <34C7691B.1B5D@an.hp.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:43:23 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit References: <199801221517.JAA01890@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Joel Rosenzweig Ray Ghanbari wrote: > This whole story has been an epic worthy of Homer (take your pick of the Greek > guy or Simpson) Needless to say, it would be real nice to get the kit and not > lose out on the $$. Well, then, DOH! Are you saying that this clown has taken your money, and he's trying to sell the same item again? I'm just not sure if I followed this correctly. I've actually had one good experience with Jim Rogers. I bought a Pole Position board from him, sold as working, and it actually worked. It arrived in a timely fashion. Ed Saunders? Ehh.. that's another story. But I think that's been beat to death. Good luck getting your Trek kit. Now, more on the subject of vector games... I'd like to learn more about the design of the vector generators in the Atari games. More specifically, could someone describe what the advantage and/or reason why Atari chose to use current regulating DACs, instead of voltage regulating DACs? Is there some computational savings for the vector generator if it's determining a change in current vs a change in voltage? Thanks, Joel- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 07:45:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:45:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: "Edison 'Eddie' Pettit" To: Cc: "Ray Ghanbari" Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:44:35 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd274c$a3e16f60$d03daccf@epettit> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Edison 'Eddie' Pettit" >> for two months to arrange to have it shipped to me >> and pay ray for it, and it was impossible short of >> flying out there to make it happen We is the kit located?? Edison 'Eddie' Pettit President The Pettit Company LC Public Records Filing & Research Services Web Site Hosting & Design Services http://www.pettitcompany.com/ 800-752-6158 800-236-2859 (FAX) From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 08:25:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:25:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: "Edison 'Eddie' Pettit" To: Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:24:30 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd2752$37a05d60$453eaccf@epettit> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Edison 'Eddie' Pettit" >We is the kit located?? Obviously that should have read 'Where' is the kit located?? Someone on the list might be local to it. Plus it would help to determine if he's trying to sell the same kit twice....hell of a profit margin..... Edison 'Eddie' Pettit President The Pettit Company LC Public Records Filing & Research Services Web Site Hosting & Design Services http://www.pettitcompany.com/ 800-752-6158 800-236-2859 (FAX) From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 09:00:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:59:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199801221657.KAA15009@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: <34C7691B.1B5D@an.hp.com> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 10:58:21 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit References: <199801221517.JAA01890@fermat.mayo.edu> <34C7691B.1B5D@an.hp.com> Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Ray Ghanbari You wrote: > Ray Ghanbari wrote: > > > This whole story has been an epic worthy of Homer (take your pick of the > > Greek guy or Simpson) Needless to say, it would be real nice to get the kit > > and not lose out on the $$. > > Well, then, DOH! > > Are you saying that this clown has taken your money, and he's trying to > sell the same item again? I'm just not sure if I followed this > correctly. Fall 1996: Ray wins the NOS Star Trek kit in a Mike Mixon auction and pays for it (I could kill my good bud, who was bidding against me ;-) Winter 96: Mike is having a tough time making time to ship, then disappears Fall 97: NeatOJunk offers up a (surprise!) NOS Star Trek kit. Al bids for it, then we realize that is the same one I "own" NeatOJunk acknowledges that it is the same, and was hoping that I would step forward to claim it. Al and I arrange to have the kit shipped to Al, and for him to pay me the $$ I have into this (win-win, since I no longer have the space to build up a sega converta game) Winter 97: Al and I spend 2-3 months trying to make arrangements to have the kit shipped from Georgia to California. We get multiple "next week" type of commitments to drop the box at UPS. We offer to arrange for UPS to pick up. No go. Jan 98: a NOS kit appears in Georgia (hmmm...) The plot thickens. At least the web site has images so I can see "my" kit Anyway, this is a big distraction for this list. Since the most rabid people for this type of find are probably subscribed here, I ask that folks lay low on this until we sort out what is happening. If someone is in Georgia and is willing to mediate some of this face to face, I'm sure Al and I can find some way to return the favor (we tried to get Dave Countryman involved before, and were told that under no circumstances would the people deal with Dave...) Ray Ray From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 09:05:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:05:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199801221705.MAA09239@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:05:52 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199801221517.JAA01890@fermat.mayo.edu> from "Ray Ghanbari" at Jan 22, 98 09:17:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Paul Kahler Hello, This is a really stupid question but I thought I'd ask anyway. What on earth does "NOS" stand for/mean? Thanks, -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 09:16:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:16:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <34C77E9B.5E45@an.hp.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:15:07 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit References: <199801221705.MAA09239@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Joel Rosenzweig Paul Kahler wrote: > > Hello, > > This is a really stupid question but I thought I'd ask anyway. What on > earth does "NOS" stand for/mean? NOS = New, old stock. That is, the item is physically old because it was manufactured a long time ago, though it is brand new, because it has never been sold. Joel- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 09:25:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:25:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: "Edison 'Eddie' Pettit" To: Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:24:20 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd275a$935b0e40$5c3eaccf@epettit> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Edison 'Eddie' Pettit" > This is a really stupid question but I thought I'd ask anyway. What on >earth does "NOS" stand for/mean? New Old Stock -- leftover parts never used Edison 'Eddie' Pettit President The Pettit Company LC Public Records Filing & Research Services Web Site Hosting & Design Services http://www.pettitcompany.com/ 800-752-6158 800-236-2859 (FAX) From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 09:28:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:28:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:28:27 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "More specifically, could someone describe what the advantage and/or reason why Atari chose to use current regulating DACs, instead of voltage regulating DACs?" ..availability DAC's are programmable resistor networks, which produce a current output. Voltage output DACs have the current to voltage converter (..an OP Amp) built into them. They sometimes have a voltage reference built into them as well. The lower cost (or earlier...) DACs didn't have all this stuff built in. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 09:49:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:49:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:19:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit In-Reply-To: <199801221705.MAA09239@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Paul Kahler wrote: > This is a really stupid question but I thought I'd ask anyway. What on > earth does "NOS" stand for/mean? New Old Stock. Made 15 years ago, but never used, so it's "New", but "Old". -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 10:51:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:51:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:50:05 -0700 (MST) From: Anders Knudsen X-Sender: andersk@janeway To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: 19K6400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen Hello Clay, and all interested. I will be getting the WG6400 service manual together over the weekend. I am just going to type in the text stuff that is relevant, and scan in the schematics. Who was it that acutally has one of these monitors? I would love to get some photographs of it. Then I can put together a good html version of the manual. -Anders. +------------------------------------------+ | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center +------------------------------------------+ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 10:57:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:57:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:57:07 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 19K6400 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Who was it that acutally has one of these monitors? I would love to get some photographs of it. Then I can put together a good html version of the manual." Did Dave have one in his Aztarac? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 11:26:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:26:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:27:09 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: SP0250 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill OK, hopefully e-mail for me is working again. ("Uhhh, gee, we can't seem to fix the POP server, so we're moving you to Microsoft Exchange.") If you sent me any e-mail in the last two days odds are pretty good that it went into the lost e-mail bit-bucket. E-mail to "clayc@diamondmm.com" should work now. I got a quote on those SP0250's. $12 a pop to take all 75. If I get commitments that people on the list can take 50 of them total, I'll foot the rest of the bill... Maybe I can talk them down to just selling me 50-- that way I'd need commitments for about 30 of them to have an order make sense. Sooooo... if any of you want these at $12 a pop plus a little bit for shipping, please speak now. If there's enough interest to cover at least 2/3rds of the minimum order I'll go ahead and buy 'em. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 13:47:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:47:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <00bc01bd277f$37138d40$69461ed1@flash.net> From: "Callan Hendricks" To: Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:46:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Callan Hendricks" They still owe me my PAT box too... I'm going to fly out to Georgia in the next month or so... Anyone wanna go? ;-) Sorry... This party is BOB (Bring own Bat). Callan. -----Original Message----- From: Edison 'Eddie' Pettit To: vectorlist@spies.com Cc: Edison 'Eddie' Pettit Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 3:38 PM Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit >>We is the kit located?? > >Obviously that should have read 'Where' is the kit located?? Someone on the >list might be local to it. Plus it would help to determine if he's trying >to sell the same kit twice....hell of a profit margin..... > >Edison 'Eddie' Pettit >President >The Pettit Company LC >Public Records Filing & Research Services >Web Site Hosting & Design Services >http://www.pettitcompany.com/ >800-752-6158 >800-236-2859 (FAX) > > > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 14:11:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:11:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980122161318.009b8520@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:13:19 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) At 03:46 PM 1/22/98 -0600, you wrote: >They still owe me my PAT box too... > >I'm going to fly out to Georgia in the next month or so... Anyone wanna go? >;-) >Sorry... This party is BOB (Bring own Bat). > >Callan. > A possible revival of the vector posse? Sweet... Mit btw - can we stop by Rocky Palmisano house in LA? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 14:34:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:34:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:33:17 -0500 (EST) From: Dwight Anderson X-Sender: mayday19@u2.farm.idt.net To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: News group find ! NOS Star Trek kit ! In-Reply-To: <34C6D95A.32CA@netconx.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Dwight Anderson On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Todd Miller wrote: > I saw this in the news group ! > > http://www.mindspring.com/~jimrogers/trek/ > > I wonder how much this will go for ? > any one deal with Jim Rogers before ? > I figured I'd better reply to this, just as a warning. Jim Rogers is in with the mike Mixon/ Ed Saunders clan if you dont know. I know a lot of Atlanta people including the guy who sold Ed and Mike all their games. He refuses to sell anything more to them because he knows they are crooks. After Ed and Mike tried selling all their stuff, they had Jim Rogers try to sll it all for them, but most people made the connection. I had bought a game from ed and I got screwed too, I waited a year, but since I know where the game came from, I went to atlanta and went to Ed Saunder's work. He works at a place called Friends of Disabled Adults (FODA) in Stone Mountain, GA if anyone cares to bug him. Jim Rogers works there too. Anyway. I went there to pick up a Deathrace and a Ripoff (all the games are in FODA's warehouse), and I saw all the other games he posted and supposedly sold, including Gaymond Lee's blaster duramold and that NOS star Trek Kit. I knew that both of them were sold before, and I asked to buy them. He said I could buy the ST kit for $500, I said no, knowing that it was sold before. He was basically wanting to sell everything but the blaster, because he said that was Gaymond's. I got my games and got out of there. This all took place in May of last year. If you happened to nitoce, NEAT-O-JUNK *IS* Ed Saunders trying to get back on, but he screwed up again and got pushed off right away. And now Tristan Mulrooney is trying to get in on the act. Tristan is an Aircraft Avionics Tech who has been trying to get in on the game business down in atlanta for 2 years now. All the "good" game dealers told him not to get involved because there just isn't enough money to do that for a living unless you have a good name. Because of this he just recently got involved with Ed, and I dont think he knows what he has gotten into. I am sure ED has led himn on with lies and asked him to sell the boards under his name. I would HIGHLY suggest NOT to buy boards from Tristan. There are a couple good guys to deal with from atlanta: David Countryman is alright, he is a wierd dude, but he ain't gonna screw anybody, 'cause he will have a nervous breakdown if he did. Retrodady seems like an alright dude too, he buys games from David. Steve Stewart. Steve is the guy who used to supply all the games to Ed and the clan, but now he wont. Also every game David C gets come from steve. Steve is a very highly respected guy down in the SE and most of the operators down there will only sell to him! Steve will be getting onto the net very soon to sell games, he has about 600 games right now and he needs to move them soon! There will be a post in RGVAM fairly soon, and there will be a webpage up soon for him also. I cant recommend Steve enough, he is a great guy. Done ask me what he has just yet. I think that will clear up anything reguarding the atlanta mess. I didn't want to post this to the NG, but I would suggest passing the word around or maybe one of you wants to post part of this. I dont want to because I know everybody down there.. Jeff From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 14:37:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:37:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:36:52 -0500 (EST) From: Dwight Anderson X-Sender: mayday19@u2.farm.idt.net To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit In-Reply-To: <01bd274c$a3e16f60$d03daccf@epettit> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Dwight Anderson BTW: If anybody has any questions reguarding any of the atlanta people or if there is something I missed covering in the previous post, dont hesatate to ask me. If I dont know it I can find out for you probably. :) Jeff From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 14:43:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:43:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:42:42 -0500 (EST) From: Dwight Anderson X-Sender: mayday19@u2.farm.idt.net To: vectorlist@spies.com cc: Callan Hendricks Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit In-Reply-To: <00bc01bd277f$37138d40$69461ed1@flash.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Dwight Anderson On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Callan Hendricks wrote: > They still owe me my PAT box too... uh-oh.. If I am correct, that PAT-9000 Ed had was sold to Gaymond Lee... > I'm going to fly out to Georgia in the next month or so... Anyone wanna go? > ;-) > Sorry... This party is BOB (Bring own Bat) Jeff From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 14:50:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:50:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: News group find ! NOS Star Trek kit ! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:50:55 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day folks, See comments below. Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com >---------- >From: Dwight Anderson[SMTP:mayday19@IDT.NET] >Sent: Thursday, January 22, 1998 2:33 PM >To: vectorlist@spies.com >Cc: Dwight Anderson >Subject: Re: News group find ! NOS Star Trek kit ! > > > >On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Todd Miller wrote: > >> I saw this in the news group ! >> >> http://www.mindspring.com/~jimrogers/trek/ >> >> I wonder how much this will go for ? >> any one deal with Jim Rogers before ? >> > >I figured I'd better reply to this, just as a warning. > >Jim Rogers is in with the mike Mixon/ Ed Saunders clan if you dont know. > >I know a lot of Atlanta people including the guy who sold Ed and Mike all >their games. He refuses to sell anything more to them because he knows >they are crooks. After Ed and Mike tried selling all their stuff, they had >Jim Rogers try to sll it all for them, but most people made the >connection. >I had bought a game from ed and I got screwed too, I waited a year, Would this have been a Sundance game? Ed once told me that he knew of one "in Georgia". But I told him to send it to me COD, since I knew about his rep. Always wondered if that Sundance really existed and if anyone really got it. > >but >since I know where the game came from, I went to atlanta and went to Ed >Saunder's work. He works at a place called Friends of Disabled Adults >(FODA) in >Stone Mountain, GA if anyone cares to bug him. Jim Rogers works there too. Does anyone else think that the eye of public scrutiny, say a major TV network, should get wind of this charity "to check it out"? Even if Ed's just a peon in the organization, he's probably stealing and they can make a story out of that. Anyone here in the vectorlist offer to provide an interview to substantiate any questionable dealings that this major TV network might find? >Anyway. I went there to pick up a Deathrace and a Ripoff (all the games >are in FODA's warehouse), and I saw all the other games he posted and >supposedly sold, including Gaymond Lee's blaster duramold and that NOS >star Trek Kit. I knew that both of them were sold before, and I asked to >buy them. He said I could buy the ST kit for $500, I said no, knowing that >it was sold before. He was basically wanting to sell everything but the >blaster, because he said that was Gaymond's. > >I got my games and got out of there. This all took place in May of last >year. > >If you happened to nitoce, NEAT-O-JUNK *IS* Ed Saunders trying to get back >on, but he screwed up again and got pushed off right away. And now Tristan >Mulrooney is trying to get in on the act. Tristan is an Aircraft Avionics >Tech who has been trying to get in on the game business down in atlanta >for 2 years now. All the "good" game dealers told him not to get involved >because there just isn't enough money to do that for a living unless you >have a good name. Because of this he just recently got involved with Ed, >and I dont think he knows what he has gotten into. I am sure ED has led >himn on with lies and asked him to sell the boards under his name. > >I would HIGHLY suggest NOT to buy boards from Tristan. > >There are a couple good guys to deal with from atlanta: > >David Countryman is alright, he is a wierd dude, but he ain't gonna screw >anybody, 'cause he will have a nervous breakdown if he did. > >Retrodady seems like an alright dude too, he buys games from David. > >Steve Stewart. Steve is the guy who used to supply all the games to Ed and >the clan, but now he wont. Also every game David C gets come from steve. >Steve is a very highly respected guy down in the SE and most of the >operators down there will only sell to him! Hmmm...gotta call Steve Stewart about a Sundance! > >Steve will be getting onto the net very soon to sell games, he has about >600 games right now and he needs to move them soon! There will be a post >in RGVAM fairly soon, and there will be a webpage up soon for him also. I >cant recommend Steve enough, he is a great guy. Done ask me what he has >just yet. > >I think that will clear up anything reguarding the atlanta mess. Thanks! > >I didn't want to post this to the NG, but I would suggest passing the word >around or maybe one of you wants to post part of this. I dont want to >because I know everybody down there.. > >Jeff > > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 14:59:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:59:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:59:03 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: News group find ! NOS Star Trek kit ! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Does anyone else think that the eye of public scrutiny, say a major TV network, should get wind of this charity "to check it out"? Even if Ed's just a peon in the organization, he's probably stealing and they can make a story out of that. Anyone here in the vectorlist offer to provide an interview to substantiate any questionable dealings that this major TV network might find? Just as a reminder, vectorlist is not a private mailing list, and all messages you post here are accessable from the spies.com web pages. The quote above is an opinion expressed by a mailing list subscriber. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 15:01:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:01:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:12:26 -0700 (MST) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: <00bc01bd277f$37138d40$69461ed1@flash.net> from "Callan Hendricks" at Jan 22, 98 03:46:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <34c7e06a0.27ec@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 498 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Kurt Mahan" > They still owe me my PAT box too... That was SUPPOSED to be my PAT box. Luckily things were too screwy so I didn't do the deal. I did finally get one, though (thanks jrr!) Basically all you have to do is talk to mike or ed on the phone and you'll realize they are out to screw you. Kurt This signature file is temporary until the previous file (currently on free floating metal oxide mixed with disk head fragments) is found on some non-readable backup tape. Kurt Mahan kmahan@novell.com From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 15:08:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:08:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: NOS Trek kit Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:06:53 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Callan Hendricks wrote: > > > They still owe me my PAT box too... > > uh-oh.. > > If I am correct, that PAT-9000 Ed had was sold to Gaymond Lee... > ...and I think he sold it to Kurt Mahan if I'm not mistaken... -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 15:18:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:18:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980122184756.1fdfc218@pop.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:47:56 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: fishd Subject: Re: 19K6400 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: fishd At 11:50 AM 1/22/98 -0700, Anders wrote: >Hello Clay, and all interested. I will be getting the WG6400 service >manual together over the weekend. I am just going to type in the text >stuff that is relevant, and scan in the schematics. >Who was it that acutally has one of these monitors? I have one inside Aztarac. Paul F. had another one available but I didn't jump on it at the time (stupid, stupid, stupid). >I would love to get some photographs of it. Then I can put together a good >html version of the manual. The pictures in the copy of the manual I have are so bad that they looked like black squares, your copy is worse. I'll see about getting some pictures of the monitor itself but I'll have to borrow a macro lens from my brother, might take a while. I still want to try modifying a 6100 into a 6400, the component differences are listed in my 6400 write-up, I just don't have a spare 6100 to experiment on. David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! fishd@tiac.net | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 15:29:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:29:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34C7D5F7.7540@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:27:51 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit References: <34c7e06a0.27ec@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Kurt Mahan wrote: > > > They still owe me my PAT box too... > > That was SUPPOSED to be my PAT box. Luckily things were too screwy so > I didn't do the deal. I did finally get one, though (thanks jrr!) > > Basically all you have to do is talk to mike or ed on the phone and you'll > realize they are out to screw you. > > Kurt > > This signature file is temporary until the previous file (currently > on free floating metal oxide mixed with disk head fragments) is found > on some non-readable backup tape. > > Kurt Mahan > kmahan@novell.com No problem. Mind you now I am starting to think I should have kept it, as I have a new techie helper and the ability to have three or four games being worked on at once appeals to me. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 15:31:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:31:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34C7D660.2D22@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:29:36 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 19K6400 References: <3.0.1.16.19980122184756.1fdfc218@pop.tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson fishd wrote: > > At 11:50 AM 1/22/98 -0700, Anders wrote: > >Hello Clay, and all interested. I will be getting the WG6400 service > >manual together over the weekend. I am just going to type in the text > >stuff that is relevant, and scan in the schematics. > >Who was it that acutally has one of these monitors? > > I have one inside Aztarac. Paul F. had another one available but I > didn't jump on it at the time (stupid, stupid, stupid). > > >I would love to get some photographs of it. Then I can put together a good > >html version of the manual. > > The pictures in the copy of the manual I have are so bad that they > looked like black squares, your copy is worse. I'll see about getting > some pictures of the monitor itself but I'll have to borrow a macro > lens from my brother, might take a while. > > I still want to try modifying a 6100 into a 6400, the component differences > are listed in my 6400 write-up, I just don't have a spare 6100 to > experiment on. > > David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION > Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! > fishd@tiac.net | By hook or by crook we will" > dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ Dumb question, but where is this write up you refered to? I suspect it is hiding on spies, isn't it? John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 15:31:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:31:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:29:19 -0700 (MST) From: Anders Knudsen X-Sender: andersk@janeway To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 19K6400 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980122184756.1fdfc218@pop.tiac.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, fishd wrote: > At 11:50 AM 1/22/98 -0700, Anders wrote: > >I would love to get some photographs of it. Then I can put together a good > >html version of the manual. > > The pictures in the copy of the manual I have are so bad that they > looked like black squares, your copy is worse. I'll see about getting > some pictures of the monitor itself but I'll have to borrow a macro > lens from my brother, might take a while. Yea. Taking new Photos would just make a cooler manual. I am not sure you need a macro lens though. Some of the pictures are close up, but not very close. > > I still want to try modifying a 6100 into a 6400, the component differences > are listed in my 6400 write-up, I just don't have a spare 6100 to > experiment on. When you say "modyfying", how drastic were you thinking? Since the operating voltage is different, you would need a new power isolation transformer. Plus the HV PCB is quite different since it only runs on positive. I am not convinced that mearly doubling up the deflection transistors (which was done on the 6400) will improve the monitor. However, increasing the supply voltage and thus the speed of the monitor could be interesting. +------------------------------------------+ | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center +------------------------------------------+ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 15:42:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:42:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:41:00 -0700 (MST) From: Anders Knudsen X-Sender: andersk@janeway To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 19K6400 In-Reply-To: <34C7D660.2D22@istar.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, John Robertson wrote: > > Dumb question, but where is this write up you refered to? I suspect it > is hiding on spies, isn't it? > John :-#)# > -- > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 No. There is no such thing as a dumb question. Now the "write-up" is and has been up on Jess's site for quite some time. :-P +------------------------------------------+ | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center +------------------------------------------+ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 15:58:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:57:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980122195746.243f5a46@pop.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:57:46 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: fishd Subject: Re: 19K6400 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980122184756.1fdfc218@pop.tiac.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: fishd At 04:29 PM 1/22/98 -0700, Anders wrote: >On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, fishd wrote: > > >Yea. Taking new Photos would just make a cooler manual. I am not sure you >need a macro lens though. Some of the pictures are close up, but not very >close. > About 6" to 1 foot away would make for some useful photos. I'll see what I can do. >> >> I still want to try modifying a 6100 into a 6400, the component differences >> are listed in my 6400 write-up, I just don't have a spare 6100 to >> experiment on. > >When you say "modyfying", how drastic were you thinking? Since the >operating voltage is different, you would need a new power isolation >transformer. Plus the HV PCB is quite different since it only runs on >positive. It's been about a year since I last looked at the schematics but I seem to remember the only difference in the Hi-V supply was that one of the electrolytics was replaced with a short (C902?) and the GND was now hooked up to the former -Vs input. I just pulled the schematic out and checked. Yup, simple. The other changes are cap voltages. >I am not convinced that mearly doubling up the deflection transistors >(which was done on the 6400) will improve the monitor. However, increasing >the supply voltage and thus the speed of the monitor could be interesting. > If I do ever do this it would be for my Sega multigame, therefore powered by the Sega XFMR. David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! fishd@tiac.net | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 16:05:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:05:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 19K6400 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:07:04 GMT Message-ID: <34cbd73b.977318427@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980122184756.1fdfc218@pop.tiac.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980122184756.1fdfc218@pop.tiac.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:47:56, fishd wrote: >At 11:50 AM 1/22/98 -0700, Anders wrote: >>Hello Clay, and all interested. I will be getting the WG6400 service >>manual together over the weekend. I am just going to type in the text >>stuff that is relevant, and scan in the schematics. >>Who was it that acutally has one of these monitors? > >I have one inside Aztarac. Paul F. had another one available but I >didn't jump on it at the time (stupid, stupid, stupid). > >>I would love to get some photographs of it. Then I can put together a = good >>html version of the manual. > >The pictures in the copy of the manual I have are so bad that they >looked like black squares, your copy is worse. I'll see about getting >some pictures of the monitor itself but I'll have to borrow a macro >lens from my brother, might take a while. > >I still want to try modifying a 6100 into a 6400, the component = differences >are listed in my 6400 write-up, I just don't have a spare 6100 to=20 >experiment on. If you want a reliable monitor for running WG compatible games, your best= bet will be simply to beef up the weak link in the monitor which is the low = voltage regulator (get a kit from Anders). If your looking for a Sega X/Y replacement monitor, then you'll have to = do the works. You'll also need the transformer used in the Sega game system to = run the thing. (+/- 50v). At this point a voltage regulator will still be = needed. It might be possible to use the Anders design to regulate the higher = voltages, since the regulators are floating. If the output of the regulator I.C. = were ever shorted to ground, bad things would happen. Anders: Didn't you say that one side of the supply dies faster than the = other? Shouldn't there be bypass diodes across the regulator to protect against = any kind of backward current flow? (I believe John R. asked the same = question, but I never saw an answer) Doubling up the output transistors (without all the other changes) would = allow the monitor to run a bit cooler, but I wonder if it's really overheating = that kills the monitor. Somebody really should experiment with transient suppressors... The Sega monitor is the one that should have it's output transistors = doubled up! -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 16:08:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:08:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34C7DEA2.10A2@links.magenta.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:04:50 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 19K6400 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Anders Knudsen wrote: > > On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, John Robertson wrote: > > > > Dumb question, but where is this write up you refered to? I suspect it > > is hiding on spies, isn't it? > > John :-#)# > > -- > > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 > > No. There is no such thing as a dumb question. Now the "write-up" is and > has been up on Jess's site for quite some time. specifically.. at http://www.gamearchive.com/video/manufacturer/atari/vector/monitors/wg_color/WG6400.txt whew, that was a long one. :-) -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 16:08:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:08:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: 19K6400 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:07:22 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > I still want to try modifying a 6100 into a 6400, the component > differences > are listed in my 6400 write-up, I just don't have a spare 6100 to > experiment on. > I've got a spare ready to go. I just want to see the schematics as well as the text description of the changes. (just makes me feel a little better) FWIW, I have a vested interest in making it work 'cause I don't have a GO-8 to play my own Sega Multigame on... ;-) -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 16:12:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:12:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Sega Multigame (*whew*) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:10:42 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Hi all. Quick update. Got the new Multigame boards today and populated one at lunch. Worked great! No green wires, no suprises. ;-) My wife is throwing a baby shower for a friend tonight, so I'll be out in the garage building these things until god-knows how late. We got our ultrasonic cleaner here at work now too, so I'll bring the boards in on the weekend and clean all the flux off 'em. Such service. *grin* -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 16:12:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:12:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:12:07 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: replacement g08 deflection board Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "FWIW, I have a vested interest in making it work 'cause I don't have a GO-8 to play my own Sega Multigame on... ;-)" does this mean you'd like to help with a new deflection board? is your deflection dead, or HV (I assume you must at least have one dead g08 around..) From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 16:20:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:20:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 19K6400 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:21:25 GMT Message-ID: <34cce1d5.980033213@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19980122184756.1fdfc218@pop.tiac.net> <3.0.1.16.19980122195746.243f5a46@pop.tiac.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980122195746.243f5a46@pop.tiac.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:57:46, fishd wrote: >At 04:29 PM 1/22/98 -0700, Anders wrote: >>On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, fishd wrote: >> > >> >>Yea. Taking new Photos would just make a cooler manual. I am not sure = you >>need a macro lens though. Some of the pictures are close up, but not = very >>close. >> > >About 6" to 1 foot away would make for some useful photos. I'll see >what I can do. > >>>=20 >>> I still want to try modifying a 6100 into a 6400, the component = differences >>> are listed in my 6400 write-up, I just don't have a spare 6100 to=20 >>> experiment on. >> >>When you say "modyfying", how drastic were you thinking? Since the >>operating voltage is different, you would need a new power isolation >>transformer. Plus the HV PCB is quite different since it only runs on >>positive. > >It's been about a year since I last looked at the schematics but I >seem to remember the only difference in the Hi-V supply was that >one of the electrolytics was replaced with a short (C902?) and the >GND was now hooked up to the former -Vs input. I just pulled the = schematic >out and checked. Yup, simple. The other changes are cap voltages. If I recall correctly there's is one more very critical change and that's= the removal of a 24v zener diode, and the associated changes. These changes = keep the 180v output at the correct value. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 16:21:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:20:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:32:09 -0700 (MST) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: from "Clay Cowgill" at Jan 22, 98 03:06:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <34c7f3190.2b23@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 283 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Kurt Mahan" > > On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Callan Hendricks wrote: > > > They still owe me my PAT box too... > > uh-oh.. > > If I am correct, that PAT-9000 Ed had was sold to Gaymond Lee... > .and I think he sold it to Kurt Mahan if I'm not mistaken... Nope -- I got mine from John Robertson.. Kurt From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 16:23:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:23:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:34:17 -0700 (MST) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: <34C7D5F7.7540@istar.ca> from "John Robertson" at Jan 22, 98 03:27:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <34c7f3990.2b3f@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 492 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Kurt Mahan" > > > They still owe me my PAT box too... > > That was SUPPOSED to be my PAT box. Luckily things were too screwy so > > I didn't do the deal. I did finally get one, though (thanks jrr!) > > No problem. Mind you now I am starting to think I should have kept it, > as I have a new techie helper and the ability to have three or four > games being worked on at once appeals to me. Well, unfortunatly I got it into my basement, and there it is going to stay. Those are heavy suckers.. Kurt From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 16:27:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:27:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: 19K6400 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:25:46 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > When you say "modyfying", how drastic were you thinking? Since the > operating voltage is different, you would need a new power isolation > transformer. Plus the HV PCB is quite different since it only runs on > positive. > I was thinking: 1) new transformer for 40-0-40 power (or whatever is needed) 2) double up transistors/Deflection board modifications + the LV2000 (maybe with another little regulator or zener to raise the adj leg to allow regulation over the higher voltage) 3) HV supply. Got two ideas here. Plan "A"-- rework it for +48V operation (Which didn't actually sound too bad from Dave's original write-up). Plan "B" Just make a split voltage regulated supply and run it off the "original" voltages. I haven't tested this theory yet, but I'm thinking that since I don't need deflection current coming off this guy I might get away with just some heat-sinked TO-220 regulators. (~1.5amp) Anybody know what a HV cage draws? > I am not convinced that mearly doubling up the deflection transistors > (which was done on the 6400) will improve the monitor. However, > increasing > the supply voltage and thus the speed of the monitor could be > interesting. > We've got a variable transformer here at work I'm kinda tempted to borrow and mess around with once a "WG6399" has been put together. See how "low" I can go and still get acceptable Sega XY performance. -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 16:35:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:35:08 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: replacement g08 deflection board Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:33:49 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > does this mean you'd like to help with a new deflection board? > Sure. But... > is your deflection dead, or HV (I assume you must at least have > one dead g08 around..) > Alas, I have no G08. Still kicking myself for selling my Star Trek upright. (Stupid, stupid, stupid! :-) -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 16:38:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:38:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:37:16 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9801221837.ZM26240@calcite> In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "RE: replacement g08 deflection board" (Jan 22, 4:33pm) References: X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: replacement g08 deflection board Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mark Jenison On Jan 22, 4:33pm, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Subject: RE: replacement g08 deflection board > Still kicking myself for selling my Star Trek upright. (Stupid, stupid, > stupid! :-) I know how you feel (sigh...) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 16:44:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:44:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 19K6400 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:45:28 GMT Message-ID: <34cde708.981364437@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:25:46 -0800, Clay Cowgill = wrote: >> When you say "modyfying", how drastic were you thinking? Since the >> operating voltage is different, you would need a new power isolation >> transformer. Plus the HV PCB is quite different since it only runs on >> positive. >>=20 >I was thinking: > >1) new transformer for 40-0-40 power (or whatever is needed) > >2) double up transistors/Deflection board modifications + the LV2000 >(maybe with another little regulator or zener to raise the adj leg to >allow regulation over the higher voltage) > >3) HV supply. Got two ideas here. Plan "A"-- rework it for +48V >operation (Which didn't actually sound too bad from Dave's original >write-up). Plan "B" Just make a split voltage regulated supply and run >it off the "original" voltages. I haven't tested this theory yet, but >I'm thinking that since I don't need deflection current coming off this >guy I might get away with just some heat-sinked TO-220 regulators. >(~1.5amp) Anybody know what a HV cage draws? =46rom what Atari has done, it looks like the 1.5 amp regulators work, = almost. The Amplifone monitors used this design, yet most have been retro fitted = with 50ohm resistor across the in/out pins. From playing with these things = with a scope it looks like things like the Star Wars star exploding need more = current than the regulator can supply. When these kind of currents are needed = part of the current is passed through the 50ohm resistor (I'm sure regulation at = this point is gone). > >> I am not convinced that mearly doubling up the deflection transistors >> (which was done on the 6400) will improve the monitor. However, >> increasing >> the supply voltage and thus the speed of the monitor could be >> interesting. If you increase the supply voltage you will have to double up the = transistors (I think this is what you meant, I just wanted to be clear.) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 16:58:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:58:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: 19K6400 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:56:57 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > From what Atari has done, it looks like the 1.5 amp regulators work, > almost. > > The Amplifone monitors used this design, yet most have been retro > fitted with > 50ohm resistor across the in/out pins. From playing with these things > with a > scope it looks like things like the Star Wars star exploding need more > current > than the regulator can supply. When these kind of currents are needed > part of > the current is passed through the 50ohm resistor (I'm sure regulation > at this > point is gone). > Ahhhh. Interesting. I'll have to look at the Amplifone schematics. Can you parallel regulators like the 7824 (Assuming you have low value resistor to tie the Vout's together)? Could probably drive something big-n-cheap like a 2n3055 off the regulator for some more current... Hmmmm. -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 17:11:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:11:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:11:18 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: 19K6400 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Ahhhh. Interesting. I'll have to look at the Amplifone schematics. Can you parallel regulators like the 7824 (Assuming you have low value resistor to tie the Vout's together)? Could probably drive something big-n-cheap like a 2n3055 off the regulator for some more current... Hmmmm. " there are higher current regulators available now than 7824's you could also use one of the National tiny switchers, which would run a HELL of a lot cooler too.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 17:52:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:52:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 19K6400 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:53:23 GMT Message-ID: <34ceee60.983244340@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--=_34c7f81398572832701c789a9.MFSBCHJLHS" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) ----=_34c7f81398572832701c789a9.MFSBCHJLHS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:56:57 -0800, Clay Cowgill = wrote: > >> From what Atari has done, it looks like the 1.5 amp regulators work, >> almost. >>=20 >> The Amplifone monitors used this design, yet most have been retro >> fitted with >> 50ohm resistor across the in/out pins. From playing with these things >> with a >> scope it looks like things like the Star Wars star exploding need more >> current >> than the regulator can supply. When these kind of currents are needed >> part of >> the current is passed through the 50ohm resistor (I'm sure regulation >> at this >> point is gone). >>=20 >Ahhhh. Interesting. I'll have to look at the Amplifone schematics. >Can you parallel regulators like the 7824 (Assuming you have low value >resistor to tie the Vout's together)? Could probably drive something >big-n-cheap like a 2n3055 off the regulator for some more current... >Hmmmm. > It's easy to add a buffer to one of these regulators, attached is a ZIP'd= BMP of a simple schematic. (invert everything for the negative supply. You'll = also need bypass caps etc.) You can also use the arrangement Anders used. The difference is that this arrangement includes the power transistor in = the feedback loop. R1 is optional and causes the transistor to turn off at = currents below 120ma. If not there regulation will be lost at very low currents. Anders design will have a similar performance, with the actual output = voltages being .6 ~ .7 volts above the output of the voltage regulator. -Z <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ ----=_34c7f81398572832701c789a9.MFSBCHJLHS Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=Vreg.zip Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=Vreg.zip UEsDBBQAAgAIAFSNNiQ44jwaewMAAC5WAAAIAAAAVlJFRy5CTVDt3L1v00AUAHCnlciCyMDYISsT ExsSldiRWICx/AMUCVEYQnKROnSqOjKAFLFDqg6oFNNcEQPdgpBKhpKYThGg2i1R60Su77DTNnbc S5r6HuLA70WWEkv+6T7eXezTyddvXL6tdeOad1zyjuKYpl1MaVrK+/ixc0vrxdjR4Qfn3D9GiTmO IRFtDdtAJta0TLIqbIBqB4eDXdnyoYceeuihhx566KGHHnrooZdQrwHs0SlYbzlh3rqB+Yweeuih hx56Q0Lrj5SsR/p/uuihd7q3Bew1gD1K1PZ0xb1nwN56wsZHEbj9DODyWcBeC9hzgT2meP8mLZ9V n59V9xqK/5/j/RV66P2LXsEIxLn3trzXCLzcOwCv3vOYW5HyFrreppy3Fnkgj3j+1jgtHW+loHtZ oXayfHZsz+KFaqg/ut43EtNb6HrhfKkUXf9eMKZn+B7h0Xx2gT0G7HES31sE9qoCzyKw9d2RaD/x fPU/e6L1OhlPFFLeOUbPZ/S9OpDHWvnKPtG3X0F5Tqphv5mow3l6w66vrN6D86zM9tv8DJhXM21T h/T298yrzztgnjV+Iatvu1D5B53PqntpA9RjLWDPSZo3BeyVlK5v4sabYp4F7Nk8O//FgPM6zJoB 9TisZwN7Fss+/Azq8fkrk5D5R1zIfKE8A+oR2Hw+4LAeA/ag6+v1R9LmK1ivo7hnK94fluL5R9Ue v390vvKe3Zxdc5fK1TdvBd5TxzRNKtcfuZB3xzE37lO5fAl5Ezfb0xt3qVw+Pw68H7Vc+XW5JDd+ x/u8JX1pUW5+yS/2vO+1HOWy81W+GrTfpzaRnq+C+iZhfkEPPfTQQ8/7umbDeivA3iNgr6C6V4P1 Vpuw3gcbxxt66KEH77UHv1QqXvnaLmx9d1kczy4P8raiew9O9Z48KBmDvdnw2skInstzL6nxc6A3 flaP6WWaPvSY15nkRPmMEb2i5r+fbafgeUa9fLxKF/Xmws+aQz3a3bDuupu+98I/0xR4y2fxDnzv 63SWV7pnSgKPDOxHgedf7Vjetwo9XrWKeF72OWfwSkdesGpFgk1wvZ1W4vgo8PruJFqBlx7BmxV4 7fCJqnjnDNNGi0nv6l9hryko35AQla/Ko4vEkfYbEqL2o+ETjJzceXS2NVLWf3VJ1uv0n2nKes3o CyuP54M4cTgfDFo2xfiL8RtQSwECFAAUAAIACABUjTYkOOI8GnsDAAAuVgAACAAAAAAAAAAAACAA AAAAAAAAVlJFRy5CTVBQSwUGAAAAAAEAAQA2AAAAoQMAAAAA ----=_34c7f81398572832701c789a9.MFSBCHJLHS-- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 18:52:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:52:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:51:27 -0700 (MST) From: Anders Knudsen X-Sender: andersk@janeway To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 19K6400 In-Reply-To: <34cbd73b.977318427@tommy.doctord.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Zonn wrote: > If you want a reliable monitor for running WG compatible games, your best bet > will be simply to beef up the weak link in the monitor which is the low voltage > regulator (get a kit from Anders). > > If your looking for a Sega X/Y replacement monitor, then you'll have to do the > works. You'll also need the transformer used in the Sega game system to run the > thing. (+/- 50v). At this point a voltage regulator will still be needed. It > might be possible to use the Anders design to regulate the higher voltages, > since the regulators are floating. If the output of the regulator I.C. were > ever shorted to ground, bad things would happen. > > Anders: Didn't you say that one side of the supply dies faster than the other? > Shouldn't there be bypass diodes across the regulator to protect against any > kind of backward current flow? (I believe John R. asked the same question, but > I never saw an answer) Yes, I think the positive dies faster (or negative), at any rate one side does discharge faster. As far as putting protection diodes, I did put protection on the Vadj pin since I added the extra 10uF cap for the increased ripple rejection ratio. I also put an output protection diode for the output capacitor which is there to insure we dont get any ringing on the output. I did not put protection diodes across the Vin/Vout ports of the regulators. The reason they are not there is that they are not necessary unless your output capacitance is greater than 25uF. In this case the output capacitance is much much smaller than that. However, if my board were to be modified to work with a higher input voltage (which is doable), then the protection diodes would have to be added. This is because the output voltage would be much higher (almost 2X) Another thing that would have to be added is an overvoltage clamp on the output of the regulator, since if the Vin to Vout voltage is greater than 40V, then the regulator will burn up. This will not be a problem with installing it into a standard WG6100. You must understand, when I designed this upgrade kit it was to fix the problems with the WG6100 monitor. I never intended to also have it work for the "sega" type of vector monitor. > Doubling up the output transistors (without all the other changes) would allow > the monitor to run a bit cooler, but I wonder if it's really overheating that > kills the monitor. Somebody really should experiment with transient > suppressors... I am going to play around with the TVS protection possibility. Between some of us, we should be able to get some good info. +------------------------------------------+ | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center +------------------------------------------+ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 22 22:45:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:45:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34C83C2E.31A@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:43:58 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: replacement g08 deflection board References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Clay Cowgill wrote: > > > does this mean you'd like to help with a new deflection board? > > > Sure. But... > > > is your deflection dead, or HV (I assume you must at least have > > one dead g08 around..) > > > Alas, I have no G08. Still kicking myself for selling my Star Trek > upright. (Stupid, stupid, stupid! :-) > > -Clay Ok, Ok, I'll get to work on my five G08's and try to sell them off to you folks. What am I offered for a working unit? John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 23 10:11:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:09:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Lotus-Fromdomain: SYBASENOTES From: "Paul Tonizzo" To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-Id: <85256595.005B51A8.00@gwwest.sybase.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:42:20 -0500 Subject: Sega G-80 Speech Boards Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Paul Tonizzo" I am trying to gauge interest in speech boards for Sega G-80 games. For those that don't know, the board is shared by all the G-80 games with speech: Star Trek, Zector, Space Fury, and Astro Blaster. The boards will be complete (with SP0250) and fully tested. I figure I'll sell them for about $20 each. Paul From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 23 10:12:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:12:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: 19K6400 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:17:34 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > there are higher current regulators available now than 7824's > Yeah, I just like the "buy it from Jameco/JDR" approach instead of Marshall or Newark... > you could also use one of the National tiny switchers, which > would run a HELL of a lot cooler too.. > True, but a lot of those use custom (or semi-custom) inductors. On the other hand, they do (or did) have a little DOS app that lets you enter your requirements and then designs a power supply for you (with all inductor and cap values). Once upon a time they told us that they were going to port it to their website... might be worth a look... (for experimentation I have a couple huge old Wang switchers that had +/-24V at a bazillion amps-- must have been for some big HD or floppy or something.) -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 23 10:38:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:38:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980123030334.0069f954@mail.concentric.net> X-Sender: gblee@mail.concentric.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:03:34 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Gaymond Lee Subject: Re: NOS Trek kit In-Reply-To: References: <00bc01bd277f$37138d40$69461ed1@flash.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Gaymond Lee At 05:42 PM 1/22/98 -0500, you wrote: > > >On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Callan Hendricks wrote: > >> They still owe me my PAT box too... > >uh-oh.. > >If I am correct, that PAT-9000 Ed had was sold to Gaymond Lee... Nope, Callan bought it and I warned him too late that it was Ed's. Ed tried to sell it to me but I passed since he still has my $400 from about 2 years ago for that Blaster duromold. That, and I found 2 PAT9000 boxes w/ 13" Amplifones right around that time. Gaymond From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 23 11:56:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:55:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: 19K6400 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:55:02 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Another thing that would have to be added is an overvoltage clamp on > the > output of the regulator, since if the Vin to Vout voltage is greater > than > 40V, then the regulator will burn up. This will not be a problem with > installing it into a standard WG6100. > Been a while since I tried any LM317 tricks, but let's say we have 40-0-40 input into a full-wave bridge rectifier. We'll get about +/-57V unfiltered DC out, yes? (.707*80) Hang a couple big 4700uF caps (ugh, I'd really say you wany 100V caps there) and figure our input to the voltage regulators is about 56V DC. We want +/-47V, so we need to burn off around 10V with a regulator setup. We want to use a standard LM317 and LM337, so is the way to do that just to raise the "floor" the ADJ pin up to (let's say) 18V with a zener. So the input is 56V, the output is set for 46V, but the "adj" voltage sets virtual ground as +18 so the regulator "sees" Vin of 38V, output of 28V and it'll burn off the 10V delta. (Actually, you could probably play some input games and get an input voltage closer to the regulation voltage and save some heat...) Does that sound right? My power supply design skills haven't been exercised since high-school electronics class. ;-) You must understand, when I designed this upgrade kit it was to fix the > problems with the WG6100 monitor. I never intended to also have it > work > for the "sega" type of vector monitor. > Ahhh, just you wait. I'll put it together with an 80W Weller pistol-grip soldering gun (with the little light-bulb that turns on when you pull the trigger) and then send it back and complain that it doesn't work in my GO-7. *laugh* :-) -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 23 12:03:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:03:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980123130230.009f6d40@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:02:30 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: RE: 19K6400 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 11:55 AM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote: >Ahhh, just you wait. I'll put it together with an 80W Weller >pistol-grip soldering gun (with the little light-bulb that turns on when >you pull the trigger) and then send it back and complain that it doesn't >work in my GO-7. *laugh* :-) > >-Clay Yea. Those lightbulbs are cool. ;-) I like the way the trigger makes that clicking sound. -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 23 12:55:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:55:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 19K6400 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:57:02 GMT Message-ID: <34cbfe92.1052936675@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:51:27 -0700 (MST), Anders Knudsen wrote: >On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Zonn wrote: >> If you want a reliable monitor for running WG compatible games, your = best bet >> will be simply to beef up the weak link in the monitor which is the = low voltage >> regulator (get a kit from Anders). >>=20 >> If your looking for a Sega X/Y replacement monitor, then you'll have = to do the >> works. You'll also need the transformer used in the Sega game system = to run the >> thing. (+/- 50v). At this point a voltage regulator will still be = needed. It >> might be possible to use the Anders design to regulate the higher = voltages, >> since the regulators are floating. If the output of the regulator = I.C. were >> ever shorted to ground, bad things would happen. >>=20 >> Anders: Didn't you say that one side of the supply dies faster than = the other? >> Shouldn't there be bypass diodes across the regulator to protect = against any >> kind of backward current flow? (I believe John R. asked the same = question, but >> I never saw an answer) > >Yes, I think the positive dies faster (or negative), at any rate one = side >does discharge faster. >As far as putting protection diodes, I did put protection on the Vadj = pin=20 >since I added the extra 10uF cap for the increased ripple rejection = ratio. >I also put an output protection diode for the output capacitor which is >there to insure we dont get any ringing on the output. >I did not put protection diodes across the Vin/Vout ports of the >regulators. >The reason they are not there is that they are not necessary unless your >output capacitance is greater than 25uF. In this case the output >capacitance is much much smaller than that. Yes, but remember there IS greater than 25uf on the outputs of the pass transistors. These pass transistor are not current overprotected, and a = common failure mode of these transistors is an internal short. So a scenario not that unlikely would be a failure in the HV or = deflection circuitry that would cause a current surge (a short in a deflection = transistor or somewhere in the HV -- I've seen those power resistor on the input of = the HV turn to wires on a couple of occasions) that would cause the low voltage = pass transistor to short, at which point there is the possibility of damage. A diode across the VIN and VOUT pins would eliminate this possibility = (and it's not like the diode is all that expensive!). If the idea is to have a LV that keeps ticking after one of those pass transistors short (happens all the time), a diode would be a very = worthwhile addition to the board. If the boards are already being manufactured it will not be much of a = problem to add a couple of diodes across the board. It'll be just like the good old= days, Star Tech Journal can come out with an article: "Beefing up the LV2000" = ;^) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 23 13:11:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:11:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 19K6400 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:12:28 GMT Message-ID: <34cd04ca.1054528885@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:55:02 -0800, Clay Cowgill = wrote: >> Another thing that would have to be added is an overvoltage clamp on >> the >> output of the regulator, since if the Vin to Vout voltage is greater >> than >> 40V, then the regulator will burn up. This will not be a problem with >> installing it into a standard WG6100. >>=20 >Been a while since I tried any LM317 tricks, but let's say we have >40-0-40 input into a full-wave bridge rectifier. We'll get about +/-57V >unfiltered DC out, yes? (.707*80) Hang a couple big 4700uF caps (ugh, >I'd really say you wany 100V caps there) and figure our input to the >voltage regulators is about 56V DC. We want +/-47V, so we need to burn >off around 10V with a regulator setup. We want to use a standard LM317 >and LM337, so is the way to do that just to raise the "floor" the ADJ >pin up to (let's say) 18V with a zener. So the input is 56V, the output >is set for 46V, but the "adj" voltage sets virtual ground as +18 so the >regulator "sees" Vin of 38V, output of 28V and it'll burn off the 10V >delta. (Actually, you could probably play some input games and get an >input voltage closer to the regulation voltage and save some heat...) >Does that sound right? My power supply design skills haven't been >exercised since high-school electronics class. ;-) You don't even need the 18v zener. The LM317 is really nothing more than= a 1.2v regulator, it's the voltage divider on the input pin that allows the = output to regulate a higher voltage. By setting the ratio of the voltage divider correctly you can regulate in voltage, just as long is the input is never= 35 volts greater than the output. The REG pin will always be 1.2v lower = than the output voltage regardless of what that voltage is. The 7805 works well = as a variable regulator down to 5 volts instead of 1.2v, though the LM317 = series has been designed to limit the amount of current that flows from the REG pin = which allows for slightly better regulation. All you need are the LM317, the two resistors that make up the voltage = divider, some bypass caps, and you can through in a protection diode or two. If = you use a variable resistor to set the regulation voltage you should add an extra resistor between GND and the variable resistor to keep the output from = ever dropping 35v below the input. (It just limits the range of regulation.) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 23 14:46:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:46:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34C91CEA.613D@links.magenta.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:42:50 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Atari PAT Station? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Im looking into buying Gaymond's Atari PAT 900 that he put up on the NG this morning. But.. Im not entirely sure what it is exactly. I know it is a power supply and lots of input variations (joy, track etc) and from what I have heard, they are very heavy. Are there different variations of the PAT stations? thanks jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 23 15:12:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:12:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:11:45 GMT X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: RE: 19K6400 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Whats funny is, Anders and I use to use one of those pistol-grip soldering guns to solder wires on our R/C cars a dozen years ago or so. The tips were ALWAYS bent into the form of some kind of artwork and there was always residue from melted plastic (or tablecloth) all over it. -jeff >At 11:55 AM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote: >>Ahhh, just you wait. I'll put it together with an 80W Weller >>pistol-grip soldering gun (with the little light-bulb that turns on when >>you pull the trigger) and then send it back and complain that it doesn't >>work in my GO-7. *laugh* :-) >> >>-Clay > >Yea. Those lightbulbs are cool. ;-) >I like the way the trigger makes that clicking sound. > >-Anders. > > > ----------------------------------------- >| Anders Knudsen >| ASIC Design Engineer >| Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center >| anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com >| http://www.adaptec.com > ========================================= jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 23 15:57:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:56:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: Atari PAT Station? To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:08:48 -0700 (MST) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: <34C91CEA.613D@links.magenta.com> from "Jess Askey" at Jan 23, 98 03:42:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <34c93f200.5abd@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1155 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Kurt Mahan" > Im looking into buying Gaymond's Atari PAT 900 that he put up on the NG > this morning. But.. Im not entirely sure what it is exactly. I know it > is a power supply and lots of input variations (joy, track etc) and from > what I have heard, they are very heavy. Are there different variations > of the PAT stations? PAT 900 or PAT 9000? (I never heard of a PAT 900) They are all the same. I sent copies of the manual to Al and Clay. Things to make sure you get: - both 44-pin game cables (with round connectors on the ends) - All the personality modules that he has (get a list).. The tester isn't much good without the personality modules.. You want duplicates if you can get them (so you can power up duplicate boards..) - does it come with the 13" monitors? Should be a 13" raster and a 13" color vector.. I can supply a manual if it doesn't have one. And yes, they are VERY heavy and take up a LOT of bench space.. Kurt This signature file is temporary until the previous file (currently on free floating metal oxide mixed with disk head fragments) is found on some non-readable backup tape. Kurt Mahan kmahan@novell.com From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 23 15:58:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:57:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980123165634.009de6f0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:56:34 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: 19K6400 In-Reply-To: <34cbfe92.1052936675@tommy.doctord.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 08:57 PM 1/23/98 GMT, Zonn wrote: >> If you want a reliable monitor for running WG compatible games, >> your best bet will be simply to beef up the weak link in the >> monitor which is the low voltage regulator (get a kit from Anders). > >Yes, but remember there IS greater than 25uf on the outputs of the pass >transistors. These pass transistor are not current overprotected, and a >common failure mode of these transistors is an internal short. > >So a scenario not that unlikely would be a failure in the HV or deflection >circuitry that would cause a current surge (a short in a deflection transistor >or somewhere in the HV -- I've seen those power resistor on the input of the >HV turn to wires on a couple of occasions) that would cause the low voltage >pass transistor to short, at which point there is the possibility of damage. This is *not* why that diode is there. It is when the opposite happens, i.e., -- the INPUT shorts, not the OUTPUT. If the OUTPUT does short, then the INPUT potential is higher, actually much higher than the OUTPUT potential and thus the Vout-Vin diode is not forward biased...think about it. See more below... >A diode across the VIN and VOUT pins would eliminate this possibility (and it's >not like the diode is all that expensive!). > >If the idea is to have a LV that keeps ticking after one of those pass >transistors short (happens all the time), a diode would be a very worthwhile >addition to the board. No it won't, but it still would be a good idea to add the diode. So read on below... >If the boards are already being manufactured it will not be much of a problem to >add a couple of diodes across the board. It'll be just like the good old days, >Star Tech Journal can come out with an article: "Beefing up the LV2000" ;^) > >-Zonn OK to avoid the above hacks being made to my LV2000 boards, I called the fab to see if they had started it yet. Since I am on the three week production schedule (best price) they had not started yet. So...I have put a hold on the fab. Pear-pressure has the best of me (this one time only, and one time only please), and I will be adding the last protection diode across the vin-vout port of the regulators (even though they are not entirely necessary...Zonn hasn't really got me convinced...see explanation later.) What does this mean? Anyone ordering the LV2000...it will be 3 weeks from now that they come in. The LV2000 board will have *all* the protection diodes the regulator could ever want. AND...The price will *not* change. Now, why do I think the Vin-Vout diode is not necessary? Well I have not measured the output capacitance, but since the output of the regulator is only driving the base of the power transistor, it should only see Cb which is small. I'll see if I can get a measurement. The only other reason for adding the diode is to protect it if an INPUT short happens, not an OUTPUT short. See, if an INPUT short happens then the lower potential becomes the Vin port and for a short time the potential at the OUTPUT discharges through the IC to the INPUT and can possibly fry the device. The diode across Vout-Vin protects the device so when an INPUT short occurs, the diode becomes forward biased and current flows through the diode and not the IC thereby sparing the IC from damage. So the end of this is, I will add the diode, which helps if anyone wants to use the board at higher regulation voltages (Clay? There are other issues to be dealt with since you have to ensure that the Vin-Vout differential is less than 40V), and also to save the IC incase someone drops a foil gum wrapper on the isolation transformer ;-) -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 23 16:50:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:49:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: 19K6400 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:48:24 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > So the end of this is, I will add the diode, which helps if anyone > wants to > use the board at higher regulation voltages (Clay? There are other > issues > to be dealt with since you have to ensure that the Vin-Vout > differential is > less than 40V), and also to save the IC incase someone drops a foil > gum > wrapper on the isolation transformer ;-) > I can't think of anything. I'm figuring there will be an input/output differential of at most 10-12V with a 40V CT transformer. Anyone know what the current draw would be like on the 40-0-40? (Or even the current draw on a "standard" WG6100 would be useful.) I found a whole box of "likely candidates" for transformers at lunch. 110V in with center-tapped 39V and 50V secondaries, and a 9VAC (non CT) output. Look like they might have been for something monitor-like (9VAC as heater voltage? Maybe a little high...). The only "gotcha" is that the windings for the 39V looked pretty thin-- like 22AWG. They'd be cheap to grab (only a few dollars each), but they don't have rated secondary current numbers... And I can't believe those thin wires would hold up to much of a load. :-( -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 23 17:00:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:58:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 19K6400 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 01:00:08 GMT Message-ID: <34ce3514.1066892756@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980123165634.009de6f0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980123165634.009de6f0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:56:34 -0700, Anders Knudsen wrote: > >OK to avoid the above hacks being made to my LV2000 boards, I called the >fab to see if they had started it yet. Since I am on the three week >production schedule (best price) they had not started yet. So...I have = put >a hold on the fab.=20 >Pear-pressure has the best of me (this one time only, and one time only >please), and I will be adding the last protection diode across the = vin-vout >port of the regulators (even though they are not entirely = necessary...Zonn >hasn't really got me convinced...see explanation later.) >What does this mean? Anyone ordering the LV2000...it will be 3 weeks = from >now that they come in. >The LV2000 board will have *all* the protection diodes the regulator = could >ever want. AND...The price will *not* change. > >Now, why do I think the Vin-Vout diode is not necessary? Well I have not >measured the output capacitance, but since the output of the regulator = is >only driving the base of the power transistor, it should only see Cb = which >is small. >I'll see if I can get a measurement. Under normal use there should be very little capacitance on the output of= the voltage regulator, try measuring the capacitance with the emitter-base = junction shorted. The regulators spec sheet's concern for capacitance is only = secondary to the real problem, and that is backward current flow through the = regulator. A large capacitor on the output, and a shorted input, is only one way = this could happen. I should have been clearer on what I was talking about when I referred to= a short. I was referring to a Base-Emitter short that might or might not go along = with a Collector-Emitter short. You on the other hand are referring to a Collector-Emittor short only. If the Base-Emitter were to fuse you would have whatever voltages and capacitance that would normally be present on the Emitter now present on = the output of the voltage regulator. If all three pins shorted it would = by-pass the regulator and not be a problem. What I've normally seen is the Collector-Emitter blown open from the excess current, then (I assume = because of the resulting puddle of silicone) the base will be shorted to the emitter= or collector. Now if you have a shorted Deflection transistor (the thing that caused us= to go into the failure mode to start with) you have the yoke connected directly= to the output of the voltage regulator. The other channel is probably still = operating and you have a yoke that is acting like a transformer. The inductive = kicks present on the none operating side of the yoke, caused by the switched = voltages on the other channel of the yoke can destroy the voltage regulator if not properly by-passed. The size of the input capacitor (4700uf) makes the input a virtual short = on power up condition. Another dangerous scenario is if through a blown diode, or more likely a = bad solder joint on the deflection PCB, only one side of the power supply = comes up. You now have a voltage regulator with its input virtually shorted to = ground through a 4700uf capacitor. A bad position to be in without the by-pass = diode. Any spikes of the wrong polarity and the voltage regulator in gone. It seems unlikely that Atari did any sort of analysis on their design at = all, one things for sure, the new design is *MUCH* better. I plan on counting the number of WAs I have this weekend and will send = you an order for how many I need. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 23 17:07:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:06:31 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 19K6400 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 01:07:43 GMT Message-ID: <34cf3da8.1069089798@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:48:24 -0800, Clay Cowgill = wrote: >> So the end of this is, I will add the diode, which helps if anyone >> wants to >> use the board at higher regulation voltages (Clay? There are other >> issues >> to be dealt with since you have to ensure that the Vin-Vout >> differential is >> less than 40V), and also to save the IC incase someone drops a foil >> gum >> wrapper on the isolation transformer ;-) >>=20 >I can't think of anything. I'm figuring there will be an input/output >differential of at most 10-12V with a 40V CT transformer. Anyone know >what the current draw would be like on the 40-0-40? (Or even the >current draw on a "standard" WG6100 would be useful.) I found a whole >box of "likely candidates" for transformers at lunch. 110V in with >center-tapped 39V and 50V secondaries, and a 9VAC (non CT) output. Look >like they might have been for something monitor-like (9VAC as heater >voltage? Maybe a little high...).=20 9vac is the common voltage used in a 5v supply. Checkout the National Data books, they had a few ideas on how to run = their regulators at higher voltages, including the use of a zener diode on the = REG pin. They point out that when you do this your regulation is only as = good as the zener, which is obviously not as nice as the regulator alone. But = probably more than what's needed for the WG monitor. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 23 20:50:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:49:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:52:01 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: LV2000 Order Form Cc: Anders Knudsen Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 2:17 PM 1/19/98, Anders Knudsen wrote: >OK, the fab order is in. It will take about 3 weeks for them to complete >the fab. If you send your order in now, I will not cash your check/money >order until I ship the kit. I printed the order form and sent you $267 for 20 DIY kits today. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Jan 24 00:49:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:49:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 03:48:17 -0500 (EST) From: Dwight Anderson X-Sender: mayday19@u3.farm.idt.net To: vectorlist@spies.com cc: Bill Esquivel Subject: Re: News group find ! NOS Star Trek kit ! In-Reply-To: <34C72FF0.7A696CFD@telis.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Dwight Anderson On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Bill Esquivel wrote: > jim rogers is probably the same J M rogers that I think is from stone > mountain Georgia. I think he was the source of boards behind the > neatojunk sales... they are the same. All the boards were ed's. > Now I don't want to bad mouth the guy as I did get the space lords > boardset I ordered. The best part was that board worked. SO, bid > accordingly... I bought one board from Jim before I knew who he was. i got it but it took a couple weeks (no biggie), and he shipped it in a cardboard envelope with NO packing.. The corners of the board were sticking through the package and were all chipped up. the board set was said to be complete but was not.. I just dropped it thinking I would not get anywhere. > Also, keep inmind that I think the videotopia guy supposedly found a NEW > in the box dedicated star trek and it was dead upon first plug in!! > Considering how fast sega monitors flame, I would think any doa unit you > find would be just about new... In case you dont know.. i work for videotopia. We got the aforementioned ST from a warehouse in 1993. it was still boxed up and it turns out the machine was used for the industry show that was held in Atlanta that year as a show game. I think there were 6 games at the show and this was one of them. I think the game was boxed up after the show and 'lost' until we found i 10 years later. It is a dedicated just like any other game, but it has a small label affixed to the front panel of the cab that reads "Game set for free play." The coin door is in place, and the lights light up, but the wires for the coin switches are not in place. Alse there is no power switch or wiring in place for one. The hole where the powr switch is supposed to be is drilled only half-way through the cabinet. The monitor is alos different than most other GO8s. It has a sticker on it that says "MOD installed" and it has some extra stuff on it. I have actually never looked at it, but I an told the monitor has added circuitry probably because SEGA wanted the game to work through the entire show! It does work perfect. It probably has less than a day or 2 worth of play on it since we got it.. We do not bring it to our exibitions because we dont want it messed up! We tried running SEGA vector games in the exhibit before (we have all of them except for a complete eliminator), but I had to fix it (it was a Tac/Scan) 3 times in 4 days, so I pulled it out. In the future we would like to put a few SEGA vector games in, but I'd need to make them more reliable. I have had NO problems with the monitors, just the boards and PS. Of course I do have a lot of broken monitors that need attention too :) The ST is only a few feet from me, but is buried behing a couple other games.. I might be able to provide a few pics if anybody wants to see it.. Jeff (not Dwight, gotta fix that but I'm to lazy) From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Jan 24 08:33:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:33:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:33:09 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: News group find ! NOS Star Trek kit ! Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "The monitor is alos different than most other GO8s. It has a sticker on it that says "MOD installed" and it has some extra stuff on it. I have actually never looked at it, but I an told the monitor has added circuitry probably because SEGA wanted the game to work through the entire show! It does work perfect. It probably has less than a day or 2 worth of play on it since we got it.. We do not bring it to our exibitions because we dont want it messed up! We tried running SEGA vector games in the exhibit before (we have all of them except for a complete eliminator), but I had to fix it (it was a Tac/Scan) 3 times in 4 days, so I pulled it out. In the future we would like to put a few SEGA vector games in, but I'd need to make them more reliable. I have had NO problems with the monitors, just the boards and PS. Of course I do have a lot of broken monitors that need attention too :) " If you get a chance some time, I'd be curious to see what the mods were. I think it may be time to get serious about redoing the G08 deflection amplifier board. Using modern parts it should be possible to eliminate almost all of the discrete transistors, and that stupid custom IC.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Jan 25 19:12:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:12:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Phfarmer Message-ID: <79162481.34cbfdfb@aol.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:07:37 EST To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Sega/Gremlin X-Y Vector Universal Sound Boards Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Phfarmer Still looking for Sega/Gremlin X-Y Vector Universal Sound Boards. More specifically, looking for a working 2N4093 JFET designated as Q1 on the schematics when you follow "COMPOSITE AUDIO OUTPUT" from pin 1. Please email Phfarmer@aol.com if you have this component/board. Thanks. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 08:31:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:31:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980126092932.009ed8d0@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:29:32 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: LV2000 part deaux...Order Form Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen Over the weekend I added the extra protection diodes to the PCB layout. I was able to get it to fit on the same size board even though I had to re-route it! Cool. Files were sent to the fab Sunday night, after the Super Bowl, Yea Broncos! Following is a re-send of the order form. The only change is to the parts list, which now includes 2 extra diodes. Also, if you include your email address on the order form, I will send you and email when I receive your order, and when I ship your order. There is no change in the price. Thanks, -Anders. It will take about 3 weeks for them to complete the fab. If you send your order in now, I will not cash your check/money order until I ship the kit. The order form below is for vectorlist folks only. That is, you must be able to solder components on to a bare PCB. If you are unable to solder because of lack of equipment, etc. I will assemble it for you for a small fee. You may order several bare PCBs with parts and have me assemble one or more for you. The BARE LV2000 PCB comes with instructions for assembly and installation on the WG6100 monitor deflection PCB. The pricing is discounted based on the number ordered (see order form). The BAG-O-PARTS includes 2 .47uF tantalum caps, 2 10uF tantalum caps, 2 1uF tantalum caps, 6 1N4002 diodes, 2 1k trimpots, 2 240 ohm 1/4W resistors, 2 4.3k 1/4W resistors, 2 4.7k 1/4W resistors, 2 small red LEDs, 1 LM317T positive voltage regulator, 1 LM337T negative voltage regulator, 2 pieces of 22ga. insulated wire. Pricing is discounted based on the number ordered (see order form). Please print* and send the order form with your check or money order: * Use Courier font (or other mono-spaced font) when printing! ====================================================================== LV2000 Order Form ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DATE: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Send check or money order to: Anders Knudsen 2780 Calkins Place Broomfield, CO 80020 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ship to: __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Your email address: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PRICE EACH QUANTITY DESCRIPTION (circle one) TOTAL -------- ------------------ -------------- --------- [ ] BARE LV2000 PCBs (1) $10.00 (2-3) 9.00 (4-5) 8.00 (6-7) 7.50 (8-9) 7.00 (10+) 6.00 _________ [ ] BAG-O-PARTS (1-9) $ 8.00 (10+) 7.00 _________ [ ] ASSEMBLY (each) $ 5.00 _________ Sub-Total: _________ Shipping: 3.00 TOTAL: ========== ====================================================================== From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 08:52:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:52:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Major Havoc translator board Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:52:36 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day folks, I have a small board with "MH/Tempest" on it that looks like it goes on the end of a Atari cage. It has alot of pots and chips. As I remember this is the "translator board" that allows you to plug Major Havoc into a Tempest? Unfortunately, I don't have a Tempest. I have a Space Duel. I do remember someone saying that a MH to SD translator board existed. Can anyone confirm this? If so, would anyone be interested in a straight swap?? I'm in the process of putting Tempest, Major Havoc and Quantum into my Space Duel cabinet that has the control panel wiring modified to play Gravitar and Black Widow. I'll have all the Atari XYs (except Star Wars and ESB which I didn't care for) in one cabinet with adapters and control panels for each! Since I have a two other spare end boards to Atari cages, I'll be carving them up to translate signals for the Quantum and Tempest. I'm using a Star Wars end board, and it fits Tempest perfectly! Can anyone confirm my memory that the smaller connector for a Tempest wiring harness has to be rotated before you plug it into the Major Havoc board? If the MH/Tempest translator board doesn't do this then I'll have "extend" the small connector off of the Star Wars end board so it can rotate. Thanks for any and all help! Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - On another topic, Gregg accidentally sent email to the whole list saying that he was paying $267 for 20 kits. I thought it would be $260 for the kits and $3 for shipping for $263? I know a $4 difference on a $250+ deal isn't a big deal, but I want to make sure I didn't screw up my math for my 10 kits at $133. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 09:51:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:51:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199801261752.MAA17035@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Major Havoc translator board To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:52:10 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Ozdemir, Steve" at Jan 26, 98 08:52:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Paul Kahler > I have a small board with "MH/Tempest" on it that looks like it goes on > the end of a Atari cage. It has alot of pots and chips. As I remember > this is the "translator board" that allows you to plug Major Havoc into > a Tempest? I've got one of those too. I have a "known good" MH board and a working Tempest, but when I plug the translator in with MH, it doesn't work. All I get is a blank screen and I *think* a control panel light or 2. Anyone know where to start debugging this thing? > I'm using a Star Wars end board, and it fits Tempest perfectly! Can > anyone confirm my memory that the smaller connector for a Tempest wiring > harness has to be rotated before you plug it into the Major Havoc board? > If the MH/Tempest translator board doesn't do this then I'll have > "extend" the small connector off of the Star Wars end board so it can > rotate. Could that be my problem? I can't imagine they'd make you do that & I'm not going to try it just for grins without looking up what signals would get crossed. Also, is there another end board compatible with the I,Robot one? It's probably a long shot, but I figure it can't hurt to ask. Thanks, -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 10:13:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:13:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34CCD1A9.4D57@links.magenta.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:10:49 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Major Havoc translator board References: <199801261752.MAA17035@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Paul Kahler wrote: > > > I have a small board with "MH/Tempest" on it that looks like it goes on > > the end of a Atari cage. It has alot of pots and chips. As I remember > > this is the "translator board" that allows you to plug Major Havoc into > > a Tempest? > > I've got one of those too. I have a "known good" MH board and a working > Tempest, but when I plug the translator in with MH, it doesn't work. All > I get is a blank screen and I *think* a control panel light or 2. Anyone > know where to start debugging this thing? > first thing to do is to twist the small connector around. It should work perfectly. I don't believe that you can hurt the MH board by plugging the small connector together incorrectly (correctly) either, so you should be okay. > > I'm using a Star Wars end board, and it fits Tempest perfectly! Can > > anyone confirm my memory that the smaller connector for a Tempest wiring > > harness has to be rotated before you plug it into the Major Havoc board? > > If the MH/Tempest translator board doesn't do this then I'll have > > "extend" the small connector off of the Star Wars end board so it can > > rotate. > > Could that be my problem? I can't imagine they'd make you do that & I'm > not going to try it just for grins without looking up what signals would > get crossed. > who knows who missed that detail but it is indeed a screwy one. The best way to see how to plug them in together correctly is to look for the pin designations on the PCB and on the end of the connector. One side is labeled A-N and the other is 1-15. I may be off on the actual number of pins but you get the idea. Jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 12:44:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:44:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199801262021.OAA11670@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: <199801261752.MAA17035@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 14:22:08 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Major Havoc translator board References: <199801261752.MAA17035@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Ray Ghanbari You wrote: > > I'm using a Star Wars end board, and it fits Tempest perfectly! Can > > anyone confirm my memory that the smaller connector for a Tempest wiring > > harness has to be rotated before you plug it into the Major Havoc board? > > If the MH/Tempest translator board doesn't do this then I'll have > > "extend" the small connector off of the Star Wars end board so it can > > rotate. > > Could that be my problem? I can't imagine they'd make you do that & I'm > not going to try it just for grins without looking up what signals would > get crossed. Looks closely at the small Tempest connector and note the orientation of the "A" end. Now do the same with MH and the conversion board. If memory serves, you need to flip the Tempest harness connector when wiring to the MH conversion board. However, this is something I need to check every time Ray From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 13:37:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:37:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: SP0250's (new price- better!) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:36:05 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Ahhh, always good to get a couple sources competing with each other... I got confirmation of my order for the SP0250's. They're $7 each. If any of you sent money already for the $12 price, I can: 1) refund the difference or 2) add in more chips (if you sent $24 for two chips, I'll send you three plus $3 change etc.) Although they said they're shipping today, I bet I won't see them for a week or two. Price (as above) is $7 each. For one or two you can send $1.50 for shipping (I'll just mail them in a tube in a diskette mailer). For more than two chips send $3 for shipping by priority mail. (Feel free to send $3 even if you only want one or two chips if you prefer priority mail.) So.... If you want any please print, clip and snail-mail (format shamelessly stolen from Anders): =============================================================== SP0250 speech chip Order Form --------------------------------------------------------------- Date: --------------------------------------------------------------- Send Check or MO to: Clay Cowgill 109 SE 175th Ave Vancouver, WA 98683 --------------------------------------------------------------- Ship To: _______________________________________ _______________________________________ _______________________________________ E-mail: _______________________________________ --------------------------------------------------------------- Quantity Description Price Each Total [ ] SP0250 Speech Chip $ 7.00 __________ Shipping: Quantity 1 or 2 = $1.50 (us mail) __________ Quantity 3+ = $3.00 (priority mail) __________ Total Enclosed: __________ =============================================================== Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 14:13:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:13:13 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:12:20 GMT X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: Major Havoc translator board Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) On a major havoc/tempest conversion, the small connector needs to be rotated. I was having a trying to get my spare major havoc board to work in my tempest, but was only getting a blank screen, although tempest worked fine and the MH board worked in my Major Havoc machine. I then got my hands on a conversion manual and it said that the 30 pin connector needs to be rotated 180o to work, but it WOULD NOT cause any damage if it was plugged in the wrong way (you just get a blank screen and some other weird things). (That one had me scratching my head for sometime, until I got the docs) Your math is right, when I saw Gregg's email I called Anders and asked him if he had increase the price by $.20, and I hadn't received the post yet. We will either send him back $4 or include an extra PCB in his order. -jeff >G'day folks, > >I have a small board with "MH/Tempest" on it that looks like it goes on >the end of a Atari cage. It has alot of pots and chips. As I remember >this is the "translator board" that allows you to plug Major Havoc into >a Tempest? > >Unfortunately, I don't have a Tempest. I have a Space Duel. I do >remember someone saying that a MH to SD translator board existed. Can >anyone confirm this? If so, would anyone be interested in a straight >swap?? > >I'm in the process of putting Tempest, Major Havoc and Quantum into my >Space Duel cabinet that has the control panel wiring modified to play >Gravitar and Black Widow. I'll have all the Atari XYs (except Star Wars >and ESB which I didn't care for) in one cabinet with adapters and >control panels for each! Since I have a two other spare end boards to >Atari cages, I'll be carving them up to translate signals for the >Quantum and Tempest. > >I'm using a Star Wars end board, and it fits Tempest perfectly! Can >anyone confirm my memory that the smaller connector for a Tempest wiring >harness has to be rotated before you plug it into the Major Havoc board? > If the MH/Tempest translator board doesn't do this then I'll have >"extend" the small connector off of the Star Wars end board so it can >rotate. > >Thanks for any and all help! > > Steven S Ozdemir > sso@dsc.com > >ps - On another topic, Gregg accidentally sent email to the whole list >saying that he was paying $267 for 20 kits. I thought it would be $260 >for the kits and $3 for shipping for $263? I know a $4 difference on a >$250+ deal isn't a big deal, but I want to make sure I didn't screw up >my math for my 10 kits at $133. jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 16:14:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:13:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:12:52 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Hi everyone, I needed a break from building Sega Multigame boards (yes, the first batch should be shipping tomorrow!) this weekend, so I started messing with my WG display corrector board again. (Ok, so the real story is that I cleaned off my work-bench and *found* the WG corrector board after 6 months...) For those of you that are new (or don't remember) this is basically just a smaller Major Havoc "translator" board that sits on a Star Wars/ESB or Major Havoc board and corrects the "bowtie" look on a Wells Gardner monitor. I'm going to make a run of them (eventually) so I'm doing my usual "who wants one" poll. I'm trying to decide what to do with the layout. Do any of you have MC1495L's in DIP format that you would want to install yourself? The actual "kit" part should be pretty cheap-- maybe on the order of $10-15. The MC1495's are expensive (like $10-15 each, and you need two) in DIP form, but I can get them as surface mount for about $8 each. So-- would you prefer: a) basic kit that you plug two 1495's (suplied by you) into for say... $16 or b) fully assembled board with 1495's for... $32 Let me know-- no big rush-- just gathering info. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 16:30:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:30:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:30:40 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day Clay, What a coincidence given that I recently dug up my Tempest to Major Havoc translator board! Can your board be used for Quantum....as I remember it used the Ampliphone monitor so it needs correcting too? Where exactly does this kit go? Above the deflection section of the main PCB, or on the deflection board of the WG monitor? If I knew, I might be able to figure out on my own if this kit is usable for Quantum. I'm about to carve up a plain end card (probably from Black Widow) to an Atari EM cage to translate from Space Duel to Quantum...maybe this is where I'd mount your kit? Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - I guess that'd be a "I'll take one response," from me, Clay. >---------- >From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:ClayC@diamondmm.com] >Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 4:12 PM >To: 'vectorlist@spies.com' >Cc: Clay Cowgill >Subject: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... > >Hi everyone, > >I needed a break from building Sega Multigame boards (yes, the first >batch should be shipping tomorrow!) this weekend, so I started messing >with my WG display corrector board again. > >(Ok, so the real story is that I cleaned off my work-bench and *found* >the WG corrector board after 6 months...) > >For those of you that are new (or don't remember) this is basically just >a smaller Major Havoc "translator" board that sits on a Star Wars/ESB or >Major Havoc board and corrects the "bowtie" look on a Wells Gardner >monitor. > >I'm going to make a run of them (eventually) so I'm doing my usual "who >wants one" poll. > >I'm trying to decide what to do with the layout. Do any of you have >MC1495L's in DIP format that you would want to install yourself? The >actual "kit" part should be pretty cheap-- maybe on the order of $10-15. >The MC1495's are expensive (like $10-15 each, and you need two) in DIP >form, but I can get them as surface mount for about $8 each. > >So-- would you prefer: > >a) basic kit that you plug two 1495's (suplied by you) into for say... >$16 > >or > >b) fully assembled board with 1495's for... $32 > >Let me know-- no big rush-- just gathering info. > >-Clay > >Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager >------------------------------------------------- >/\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. >\/ Communications Division > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 16:40:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:39:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:39:47 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "What a coincidence given that I recently dug up my Tempest to Major Havoc translator board! Can your board be used for Quantum....as I remember it used the Ampliphone monitor so it needs correcting too? Where exactly does this kit go? Above the deflection section of the main PCB, or on the deflection board of the WG monitor? If I knew, I might be able to figure out on my own if this kit is usable for Quantum." The correction circuit you have goes between the output of the board and the monitor. It should work just fine for Quantum (with appropriate checks for pinout) The kit is needed for the couple of X/Y designs that were built targeted to the Ampliphone monitor (was it just MH and Quantum?) and pre-distorts the output of the X or Y channel based on the amplitude of the other channel. There should be a bunch of mail in the vectorlist archive sometime last summer when we were talking about this last. From memory, you only really had to apply the correction on one axis (vertical?) From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 16:44:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:44:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:42:02 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9801261842.ZM931@calcite> In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "SP0250's (new price- better!)" (Jan 26, 1:36pm) References: <199801262142.QAA26355@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Sega XY boards (part II) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mark Jenison All, I'll be sending out the first shipment of Space Fury boards I advertised last week this week, so I'll post my next group of boards for sale: CPU board: $10 working without special chip or EPROM. I have pretty much unlimited security chips for Space Fury and Star Trek. About 10 Eliminator 2 player, about 5 Tac/Scan/Eliminator 4-player (sorry, no Zektor chips). If you look at the FAQ, you can see what raster games can use these chips also. I assume most people will want to do the Clay/David Fish hack, though, so let me know if you need one of these thrown in or not. Otherwise, with chip and EPROM it for a specific game, it will be $5 additional. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 17:24:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:23:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:22:52 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > What a coincidence given that I recently dug up my Tempest to Major > Havoc translator board! Can your board be used for Quantum....as I > remember it used the Ampliphone monitor so it needs correcting too? > Quantum has a the display corrector built in for all intents and purposes. Space Duel, Gravitar/Black Widow and the like used two "pairs" of correctors to fix the bowing on both the horizontal and vertical axis. In reality the horizontal distortion is very minor, so with Quantum and the Major Havoc conversion boards they only fix the "vertical" bow. (That's confusing-- by vertical bowing I mean a square looking sorta like:) \--------/ \ / / \ /--------\ > Where exactly does this kit go? Above the deflection section of the > main PCB, or on the deflection board of the WG monitor? If I knew, I > might be able to figure out on my own if this kit is usable for > Quantum. > I'm about to carve up a plain end card (probably from Black Widow) to > an Atari EM cage to translate from Space Duel to Quantum...maybe this > is > where I'd mount your kit? > Right now it sits on the PCB in question (I take inputs from pin 2 of the LF13201's and lift one end of the 100ohm series output resistor of the x-axis output). Once I have it working to my liking I'm going to try to put a couple op-amps in front of it and take "monitor level" inputs and see what happens. (My preference cause it'll then work for things like Sega Vector games too...) -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 17:33:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:33:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34CC8D8E.792A@erols.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 05:20:14 -0800 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: SP0250's (new price- better!) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kev Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Ahhh, always good to get a couple sources competing with each other... > > I got confirmation of my order for the SP0250's. They're $7 each. If > any of you sent money already for the $12 price, I can: > > 1) refund the difference > or > 2) add in more chips (if you sent $24 for two chips, I'll send you three > plus $3 change etc.) > > Although they said they're shipping today, I bet I won't see them for a > week or two. > > Price (as above) is $7 each. For one or two you can send $1.50 for > shipping (I'll just mail them in a tube in a diskette mailer). For more > than two chips send $3 for shipping by priority mail. (Feel free to > send $3 even if you only want one or two chips if you prefer priority > mail.) > > So.... If you want any please print, clip and snail-mail (format > shamelessly stolen from Anders): > > =============================================================== > SP0250 speech chip Order Form > --------------------------------------------------------------- Forgive Me but what/ where does the SPO -250 go again? I found a source for them too, Gottlieb Speech boards like on Mach 3. -- Kev http://www.erols.com/mowerman <- Coin Op Video Game site REMOVE "?" FROM MY E-MAIL Looking for any Pac Man info & a few good PCBs... From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 17:44:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:44:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: SP0250's (new price- better!) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:43:08 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Forgive Me but what/ where does the SPO -250 go again? > > I found a source for them too, Gottlieb Speech boards like on Mach 3. > Ahhhh, well Gottlieb Speech boards like Mach 3 apparently. ;-) The use I'm concerned about is on Sega G-80 System Speech boards like: Star Trek, Space Fury, Zektor, and Astro Blaster. -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 18:26:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:26:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Sega Multigame Instructions Posted Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:25:08 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Just FYI, I uploaded a .PDF of the Sega Multigame instructions to my webpage. http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/sega_multigame.html Also, the spinner boards are now officially GONE. :-/ -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 18:26:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:26:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Message-Id: <9801270225.AA25148@savage.raleigh.ibm.com> Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Poll... To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:25:11 -0500 (EST) Cc: clayc@diamondmm.com In-Reply-To: from "Clay Cowgill" at Jan 6, 98 11:36:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 415 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay, I put the check in the mail today for the Sega multi-game kit. Just thought you'd like to know! Thanks! John -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John W. Linville To Be, Rather Than To Seem. | | linvjw@vnet.ibm.com I will not torment the emotionally frail... :-) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 18:31:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:30:53 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Message-Id: <9801270228.AA28052@savage.raleigh.ibm.com> Subject: Ooops! To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:28:33 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 464 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Butter fingers... Any chance we could get replies to go to the sender, CC'ed to the list instead of the way it is now (vice versa)? Not to open that thread again... -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John W. Linville To Be, Rather Than To Seem. | | linvjw@vnet.ibm.com I will not torment the emotionally frail... :-) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Jan 26 22:25:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:25:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 00:27:52 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Cc: Clay Cowgill Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 16:12 1/26/98, Clay Cowgill wrote: >Hi everyone, > >I needed a break from building Sega Multigame boards (yes, the first >batch should be shipping tomorrow!) this weekend, so I started messing >with my WG display corrector board again. > >(Ok, so the real story is that I cleaned off my work-bench and *found* >the WG corrector board after 6 months...) > >For those of you that are new (or don't remember) this is basically just >a smaller Major Havoc "translator" board that sits on a Star Wars/ESB or >Major Havoc board and corrects the "bowtie" look on a Wells Gardner >monitor. > >I'm going to make a run of them (eventually) so I'm doing my usual "who >wants one" poll. > >I'm trying to decide what to do with the layout. Do any of you have >MC1495L's in DIP format that you would want to install yourself? The >actual "kit" part should be pretty cheap-- maybe on the order of $10-15. >The MC1495's are expensive (like $10-15 each, and you need two) in DIP >form, but I can get them as surface mount for about $8 each. > >So-- would you prefer: I'd take 5 of "b" From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 06:29:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:29:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199801271429.JAA18212@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:29:49 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Clay Cowgill" at Jan 26, 98 05:22:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Paul Kahler Clay wrote: > Right now it sits on the PCB in question (I take inputs from pin 2 of > the LF13201's and lift one end of the 100ohm series output resistor of > the x-axis output). Once I have it working to my liking I'm going to > try to put a couple op-amps in front of it and take "monitor level" > inputs and see what happens. (My preference cause it'll then work for > things like Sega Vector games too...) And Cinematronics games!! Well, with the addition of the D/A stuff... Not that I think you should do that too, that would be a separate project that would just use this one on the back end. Count me in for the full kit. -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 07:44:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:44:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980127094138.0098b340@netins.net> X-Sender: omar@netins.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:41:38 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: omar@netins.net Subject: Re: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: omar@netins.net At 16:12 1/26/98 -0800, you wrote: >I'm going to make a run of them (eventually) so I'm doing my usual "who >wants one" poll. > >I'm trying to decide what to do with the layout. Do any of you have >MC1495L's in DIP format that you would want to install yourself? The >actual "kit" part should be pretty cheap-- maybe on the order of $10-15. >The MC1495's are expensive (like $10-15 each, and you need two) in DIP >form, but I can get them as surface mount for about $8 each. > >So-- would you prefer: > >a) basic kit that you plug two 1495's (suplied by you) into for say... >$16 > >or > >b) fully assembled board with 1495's for... $32 My first choice would be A and I'd go for three of them. If B ended up being the most popular choice, would the 1495s be surface mount then? BTW - The latest Jameco catalog has DIP 1495s on sale for $7.95. Mike Benedict From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 07:44:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:44:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Chris Cope Message-Id: <199801271543.IAA00232@flatland.dimensional.com> Subject: fixing a newer g-05 To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:43:34 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Chris Cope I've got an Asteroids with a newer G-05, the kind w/o the big heatsinks. It has strange behavior. When an Asteroid or UFO is at the bottom of the screen, the asteroid is "unwrapped" and looks like a wavey line. As it moves up the screen, it forms into a circle. By the time it is at mid-screen, it looks right. This is not a logic board problem. I have swapped in two different working boards. I have also put the suspect logic board in a working game. All of these tests point at a monitor problem. So can someone give me some deflection board tips. I have tested all four of the major deflection transistors. One was bad and has been replaced. Thanks. Chris Cope From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 08:39:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:39:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980127104054.009322b0@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:40:55 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Instructions Posted Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) At 06:25 PM 1/26/98 -0800, you wrote: >Just FYI, > >I uploaded a .PDF of the Sega Multigame instructions to my webpage. > >http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/sega_multigame.html > >Also, the spinner boards are now officially GONE. :-/ > >-Clay >Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager >------------------------------------------------- >/\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. >\/ Communications Division > Congrats Clay!!! Those instructions are AWESOME!!! Now, can you make an ilustrated guide to repairing the rest of the parts in the G-80 system? Mit From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 09:32:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:32:38 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34CE19E5.48ED@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:31:17 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Signature Analysing Question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Mark Shostak wrote: > > In message "Signature Analysing Question", pinball@istar.ca writes: > > > Hi, Mark! > > > > You can also wire up a special CPU that is locked into "NOP" function, > > this will generate a nice pattern for SI. > > > > John :-#)# > > Hi John, > > I've done that, but for some reason on Atari boards, the NOP configuration > does not yield stable signatures. So far I've been too busy to figure out > why, so I just use the CAT box. However, it does work well on Space Inva- > ders. > > Cheers, > Mark > > P.S. Come to think of it, it may just be the phase difference between ph.1 > and ph.2 of the clock. With the CAT, they're in phase, but with the > NOP they're not. Note to self: check the clocks. Hi! You also need to disable the watchdog reset. I lift the reset pin on my nop test cpu's and make a simple reset with a capacitor and pullup resistor. The nops that I make are just the cpu with the legs bent back over the body of the chip, wire the data pins (bent back) to the NOP instruction, lift the reset pin, and bend it over, then conect the mess to the +5 and Gnd legs (carefully). Works well... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 10:11:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:10:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Sega XY boards (part II) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:11:20 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day Mark, I'd like a backup CPU for my 4-player Eliminator. After I saw an extra CPU save the Eliminator tournament in San Diego, I can appreciate spending $15. Do any other games share a security chip besides 4 player Eliminator and Tac Scan? Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - Seems silly to spend $5 to send out a $15 board....if you want to hold it for me, that'd be fine. Maybe we could include it in an upcoming shipment from Rick to me? >---------- >From: Mark Jenison[SMTP:jenison@cig.mot.com] >Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 4:42 PM >To: vectorlist@spies.com >Cc: Mark Jenison >Subject: Sega XY boards (part II) > >All, > >I'll be sending out the first shipment of Space Fury boards I advertised last >week this week, so I'll post my next group of boards for sale: > >CPU board: $10 working without special chip or EPROM. > >I have pretty much unlimited security chips for Space Fury and Star Trek. > About 10 Eliminator 2 player, about 5 Tac/Scan/Eliminator 4-player (sorry, >no >Zektor chips). If you look at the FAQ, you can see what raster games can use >these chips also. I assume most people will want to do the Clay/David Fish >hack, though, so let me know if you need one of these thrown in or not. > Otherwise, with chip and EPROM it for a specific game, it will be $5 >additional. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com >Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 11:45:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:44:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:43:11 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > My first choice would be A and I'd go for three of them. If B ended > up > being the most popular choice, would the 1495s be surface mount then? > Well, I'm thinking I'll probably dual-footprint the board for both DIP and surface mount chips. The DIP version of the MC1495/1595 is discontinued, so it's probably smart to accomodate the SOIC version. > BTW - The latest Jameco catalog has DIP 1495s on sale for $7.95. > Jameco's kinda chaotic. Their website lists there for $10.95 each in singles, the last catalog I have sitting around (974) lists 'em for $10.95, and I just called and did a price-check and they're $9.95. Buy heyyyyyy. Just checked Newark... $4.00 a pop for surface mount! Woo-hoo! :-) That would make for an assembled unit for around $25! Cool. -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 12:28:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:26:01 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980127142319.00a8f340@netins.net> X-Sender: omar@netins.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:23:19 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: omar@netins.net Subject: RE: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: omar@netins.net At 11:43 1/27/98 -0800, you wrote: >> My first choice would be A and I'd go for three of them. If B ended >> up >> being the most popular choice, would the 1495s be surface mount then? >> >Well, I'm thinking I'll probably dual-footprint the board for both DIP >and surface mount chips. The DIP version of the MC1495/1595 is >discontinued, so it's probably smart to accomodate the SOIC version. In that case, I'd lean toward B. >> BTW - The latest Jameco catalog has DIP 1495s on sale for $7.95. >> >Jameco's kinda chaotic. Their website lists there for $10.95 each in >singles, the last catalog I have sitting around (974) lists 'em for >$10.95, and I just called and did a price-check and they're $9.95. Chaotic indeed! The catalog in question is number 981, their February/April edition which arrived a whopping two days ago. They'll probably claim it was a typo. >Buy heyyyyyy. Just checked Newark... $4.00 a pop for surface mount! >Woo-hoo! :-) > >That would make for an assembled unit for around $25! Cool. Gets my vote! Mike Benedict From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 12:48:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:48:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:41:22 -0500 (EST) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Signature Analysing Question In-Reply-To: <34CE19E5.48ED@istar.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mitchell Rohde > > > > Hi John, > > > > I've done that, but for some reason on Atari boards, the NOP configuration > > does not yield stable signatures. So far I've been too busy to figure out > > why, so I just use the CAT box. However, it does work well on Space Inva- > > ders. > > > > Cheers, > > Mark > > Do you have a list of correct signatures for a working Space Invaders? This would be good to have... Mitch From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 15:30:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:28:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'Ghanbari, Ray A., Ph.D.'" Cc: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:26:56 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > You wrote: > > Right now it sits on the PCB in question (I take inputs from pin 2 > of > > the LF13201's and lift one end of the 100ohm series output resistor > of > > the x-axis output). > > Ick! I'd rather it be a module that can plug into a conversion > harness or > regular wiring harness. I play multiple vector games in each cabinet. > I hear you Ray... ;-) I was tinkering around last night. (Burned the hell out of my pinky too. Note to self: "don't test if TLO82 is wired backwards by shoving little finger down on it real hard for 3 or 4 seconds.") > Is this not doable?? > It's do-able. The note above was just 'cause I was still tinkering with it. I got it all working to my satisfaction last night. So right now it has the following features: * "pincushion" compensation for "amplifone" games like Star Wars and Major Havoc * center, linearity, width, and pincusion controls (I made it variable, unlike the Atari one) * bypass switch (especially for Ray, so you don't "display correct" a display corrected game like Space Duel (starts looking really weird if you do... ;-) I might go ahead and add the Sega conversion stuff and just leave it unpopulated in the kits to save $$$. You can populate it yourself if you want. ;-) The board doesn't actually "care" if it's used on the x or y axis (since it's adjustable). So, for those of you that just HAVE to have perfectly square boxes you can use two of them--one to correct the X and one to correct the Y. I think most people would be hard-pressed to notice the bow in horizontal lines...) I'm thinking I might buy enough 1495's for 25 or so kits... -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 15:35:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:33:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:33:50 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "I'm thinking I might buy enough 1495's for 25 or so kits..." Are you still thinking about making the little PC power supply adapter boards too? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 15:43:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:42:35 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:41:16 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > "I'm thinking I might buy enough 1495's for 25 or so kits..." > > Are you still thinking about making the little PC power > supply adapter boards too? > Yep. (Gads, I have a lot of projects. ;-) I need to dig through my old mail on that one and decide exactly what to put on there. I was going to do the little display adapter first 'cause it won't cost a lot of money to do the boards since they're (relatively) small. That gives me time to ship all the Sega stuff and use that money to buy the next run of boards. (weird little cash-recycling system I have... Don't ask... :-) -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 16:49:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:49:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34CDD6A9.A27@erols.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:44:25 -0800 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kev Clay Cowgill wrote: > > > "I'm thinking I might buy enough 1495's for 25 or so kits..." > > > > Are you still thinking about making the little PC power > > supply adapter boards too? > > > Yep. (Gads, I have a lot of projects. ;-) > > I need to dig through my old mail on that one and decide exactly what to > put on there. I was going to do the little display adapter first 'cause > it won't cost a lot of money to do the boards since they're (relatively) > small. That gives me time to ship all the Sega stuff and use that money > to buy the next run of boards. (weird little cash-recycling system I > have... Don't ask... :-) > > -Clay Okay, nuther dumb question.... What is the status of the bootleg Cinematronics board that runs a Wells Gardner B&W? What I'm leading to is.... I'd like to see a "universal" adapter for color WG19K6101. Something that would let us run Cinematronics in B&W (or color if we can hack that) & pincushion for Atari boards needing it & Sega XY stuff even if we must suffer with a smaller image & scattered stray vectors for now. -- Kev http://www.erols.com/mowerman <- Coin Op Video Game site REMOVE "?" FROM MY E-MAIL Looking for any Pac Man info & a few good PCBs... From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 16:50:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:49:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34CDD59B.573A@erols.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:39:55 -0800 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Signature Analysing Question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kev Mitchell Rohde wrote: > > > > > > > Hi John, > > > > > > I've done that, but for some reason on Atari boards, the NOP configuration > > > does not yield stable signatures. So far I've been too busy to figure out > > > why, so I just use the CAT box. However, it does work well on Space Inva- > > > ders. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Mark > > > > > Do you have a list of correct signatures for a working Space Invaders? > This would be good to have... I second that & I'd like to ad the info to my Midway 8080 Page if possible? Thanks -- Kev http://www.erols.com/mowerman <- Coin Op Video Game site REMOVE "?" FROM MY E-MAIL Looking for any Pac Man info & a few good PCBs... From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 17:06:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:05:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDBBB@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Cc: John Robertson Subject: RE: Signature Analyzing Question Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:04:55 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" > You also need to disable the watchdog reset. I lift the reset pin on my > nop test cpu's and make a simple reset with a capacitor and pullup > resistor. The nops that I make are just the cpu with the legs bent back > over the body of the chip, wire the data pins (bent back) to the NOP > instruction, lift the reset pin, and bend it over, then conect the mess > to the +5 and Gnd legs (carefully). Works well... > What exactly are the data pins for the NOP instruction? David From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 17:40:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:40:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:40:05 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) the status is that the boards are sitting on my board pile.. I scanned in one of the schematics for the converter. would it make sense to include one channel of the dac/integrator on this to, clay? ..you still need the Z axis circuit, though, so it might make more sense to make it a separate board, with a prom or something to do the z axis conversion for all the variations in the brightness circuit From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 18:04:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:04:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34CE913C.6F57@links.magenta.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:00:28 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Signature Analyzing Question References: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDBBB@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey David Shoemaker (RhoTech) wrote: > > > You also need to disable the watchdog reset. I lift the reset pin on my > > nop test cpu's and make a simple reset with a capacitor and pullup > > resistor. The nops that I make are just the cpu with the legs bent back > > over the body of the chip, wire the data pins (bent back) to the NOP > > instruction, lift the reset pin, and bend it over, then conect the mess > > to the +5 and Gnd legs (carefully). Works well... > > > What exactly are the data pins for the NOP instruction? > > David The NOP operation on the 6502 is EA which would be (msb)11101010(lsb) in binary. jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 20:02:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:01:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Danger wil Message-ID: <22b33d5.34cead51@aol.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:00:15 EST To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Vectorbeam Question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Danger wil Well, I am fixing to get rid of my Rip Off cocktail and so pulled it out to monkey around with a bit. It didn't have any boards, so I pulled out an untested set of Solar Quest bds and plugged them in. After praying to all the smoke gods, I plugged it in and wow it actually came up, well kinda. The sound board makes a game sound on power up and the monitor comes on. I can hear it making vectors but with the brightness turned all the way up all I see is groupings of dots. These dots seem to be moving and I can see what looks like a high score table in attract mode, but just in formless clumps of dots. It doesn't coin up or make any other noises, but I tend to think that is probably because of differences in the games pinouts??????????/ Well any ideas would be a help. I might want to play around with it some more, before I send it off. BTW This is the weirdest setup I have ever seen. The whole thing looks homemade. The monitor tube is actually hinged and pulls up to expose the chassis and sound board. The power supply and chassis are both marked vectorbeam, but the game is manufactured by Centuri?? Happy Gaming, Bill From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 21:56:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:55:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34CEC7FF.6500@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:54:07 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Signature Analysing Question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Mitchell Rohde wrote: > > > > > > > Hi John, > > > > > > I've done that, but for some reason on Atari boards, the NOP configuration > > > does not yield stable signatures. So far I've been too busy to figure out > > > why, so I just use the CAT box. However, it does work well on Space Inva- > > > ders. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Mark > > > > > Do you have a list of correct signatures for a working Space Invaders? > This would be good to have... > > Mitch Hi, Mitch! No I don't think so, I do not have very many signatures. Only the ones that came with a few games and what is in my KK manuals. Perhaps that one is there...must look! I know that KK produced some sigs for Pacman, Defender, GAlaxian, and others, as I saw them in my docs. Just how to get them from the docs into a format that others can use is what takes the time...slow typer. John :-#)# John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 22:19:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:19:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34CECD85.2136@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:17:42 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Signature Analyzing Question References: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDBBB@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> <34CECCD3.40C3@istar.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson David Shoemaker (RhoTech) wrote: > > > > > You also need to disable the watchdog reset. I lift the reset pin on my > > > nop test cpu's and make a simple reset with a capacitor and pullup > > > resistor. The nops that I make are just the cpu with the legs bent back > > > over the body of the chip, wire the data pins (bent back) to the NOP > > > instruction, lift the reset pin, and bend it over, then conect the mess > > > to the +5 and Gnd legs (carefully). Works well... > > > > > What exactly are the data pins for the NOP instruction? > > > > David Hi, David (and others)! That depends on the processor. EAch type (Z80, 6502, etc) has it's own code for a NOP instruction. You need to look it up in the assembly code set for the cpu. For instance for the 6502 you dig out a Rockwell data book, and looking on the Instruction Code Summary page you find that the NOP instruction is "EA" in hex. So you bend up the legs as follows: D7 D6 D5 D4 D3 D2 D1 D0 H H H L H L H L "E" "A" Tie the "H"s to the +5Vdc leg (pin 8)(fussy folks use a 330Ohm resitor on each D, but it works if tied), and tie the "L"s to ground (pin 1 or 21). Then bend up the Reset leg (pin 40) and connect it to the + lead of a 10/16Vdc cap, the ground of hte cap to a ground leg (1 or 22), and a 10K pull up resistor on pin 40 (and 10ufd cap) to +5 (pin 8). You now have a 6502 NOP. Kinda ruins the 6502 fr any other job, but we all must make sacrifices in the cause, eh? John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Jan 27 23:46:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:46:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Vectorbeam Question Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:45:32 GMT Message-ID: <34cfdac8.806510@smtp.zonn.com> References: <22b33d5.34cead51@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <22b33d5.34cead51@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:00:15 EST, Danger wil wrote: >Well, > > I am fixing to get rid of my Rip Off cocktail and so pulled it out to >monkey around with a bit. It didn't have any boards, so I pulled out an >untested set of Solar Quest bds and plugged them in. > > After praying to all the smoke gods, I plugged it in and wow it = actually >came up, well kinda. The sound board makes a game sound on power up and= the >monitor comes on. I can hear it making vectors but with the brightness = turned >all the way up all I see is groupings of dots. These dots seem to be = moving >and I can see what looks like a high score table in attract mode, but = just in >formless clumps of dots. > > It doesn't coin up or make any other noises, but I tend to think that= is >probably because of differences in the games pinouts??????????/ > >Well any ideas would be a help. I might want to play around with it = some >more, before I send it off. > >BTW This is the weirdest setup I have ever seen. The whole thing looks >homemade. The monitor tube is actually hinged and pulls up to expose = the >chassis and sound board. The power supply and chassis are both marked >vectorbeam, but the game is manufactured by Centuri?? (I've been told the Vectorbeam licensed Ripoff to Centuri for the = cocktail version) It sounds like problems in the brightness circuitry. Solar Quest should come up with all its vectors at max intensity. Though= it is made for a monitor with 64 levels of intensities and that could be part = of the problem. Check the obvious things like loose connectors, loose wires leading to = the CRT. Pay special attention to small cracks in the solder joints around socket = pins, and jumper wires on the PCB -- including the lead that go to the CRT. Then check if the +90 volt supply is present. If that's there, check to see that the unfiltered +25 volts is present. = This is used as a spot killer when power is turned off. Since only a small diode= is used to create this voltage an accidental short anytime in the past will = fry this diode. If that's ok, then (using vectorbeam nomenclature at this point, = Cinematronics had different names for all the same parts) check U6 (the 7406). Check the ~4 volt regulator Q19, CR37, and C22 (A tantalum capacitor! = These things always die!). Check C18 (used to indicate the presence of vectors). If you can't = measure the value of this capacitor, try placing another .1uf across it to see if it = helps. Check if Q24 is open, or if Q21 is shorted. Check to be sure the brightness control is not cracked (check for 10k = across the outside terminals, and that the wiper is making contact). If there happens to be two neon lamps in series, connected from the wiper= of the intensity control to gnd, make sure that 1) these lamps are not lit in = normal use, and 2) they are not blackened. If these lamps are not there, you = should install them. Any 2 NE-2 or similar neon lamps connected in series = should work fine. This dissipates static charges during on/off transitions. That's about it for single point failures I can think of, pretty much in = order of likelihood. Definitely rule out the CPU card by plugging something in that works (any= game should come up, though the controls and sound won't work). -Z From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 06:56:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:56:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199801281448.IAA01405@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 08:49:28 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... References: Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Ray Ghanbari You wrote: > * bypass switch (especially for Ray, so you don't "display correct" a > display corrected game like Space Duel (starts looking really weird if > you do... ;-) Gosh, I feel special ;-) Thanks Clay > I might go ahead and add the Sega conversion stuff and just leave it > unpopulated in the kits to save $$$. You can populate it yourself if > you want. ;-) This is cool. I *hate* wirewrap.... Sega buffer circuit for both X and Y on one board then? Or... > The board doesn't actually "care" if it's used on the x or y axis (since > it's adjustable). So, for those of you that just HAVE to have perfectly > square boxes you can use two of them--one to correct the X and one to > correct the Y. I think most people would be hard-pressed to notice the > bow in horizontal lines...) ...would one need 2 boards? Regardless, count me for 2... Ray From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 07:03:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:03:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:02:52 -0500 (EST) From: Dwight Anderson X-Sender: mayday19@u1.farm.idt.net To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Vectorbeam Question In-Reply-To: <22b33d5.34cead51@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Dwight Anderson On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Danger wil wrote: > Well, > > I am fixing to get rid of my Rip Off cocktail and so pulled it out to > monkey around with a bit. It didn't have any boards, so I pulled out an > untested set of Solar Quest bds and plugged them in. > BTW This is the weirdest setup I have ever seen. The whole thing looks > homemade. The monitor tube is actually hinged and pulls up to expose the > chassis and sound board. The power supply and chassis are both marked > vectorbeam, but the game is manufactured by Centuri?? > What kind of monitor does that use? it is color right? Does the regular Cine Ripoff support the color decoder board? I have a color decoder board and I thought it would be cool to put a 6101 in a ripoff UR. ...or will it just be in B/W? Jeff From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 09:13:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:11:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:10:14 GMT X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: fixing a newer g-05 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) I had some asteroids machines that had simular problems and all the transistors tested OK, but when I replaced them, it fixed the problem. -jeff >I've got an Asteroids with a newer G-05, the kind w/o the big >heatsinks. It has strange behavior. When an Asteroid or UFO is at the >bottom of the screen, the asteroid is "unwrapped" and looks like a wavey >line. As it moves up the screen, it forms into a circle. By the time it >is at mid-screen, it looks right. > >This is not a logic board problem. I have swapped in two different >working boards. I have also put the suspect logic board in a working >game. All of these tests point at a monitor problem. > >So can someone give me some deflection board tips. I have tested all four >of the major deflection transistors. One was bad and has been replaced. > >Thanks. > >Chris Cope jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 09:13:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:11:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:10:07 GMT X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: RE: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Clay, Go ahead and put me down for one. -jeff >> You wrote: >> > Right now it sits on the PCB in question (I take inputs from pin 2 >> of >> > the LF13201's and lift one end of the 100ohm series output resistor >> of >> > the x-axis output). >> >> Ick! I'd rather it be a module that can plug into a conversion >> harness or >> regular wiring harness. I play multiple vector games in each cabinet. >> >I hear you Ray... ;-) I was tinkering around last night. (Burned the >hell out of my pinky too. Note to self: "don't test if TLO82 is wired >backwards by shoving little finger down on it real hard for 3 or 4 >seconds.") > >> Is this not doable?? >> >It's do-able. The note above was just 'cause I was still tinkering with >it. I got it all working to my satisfaction last night. So right now >it has the following features: > >* "pincushion" compensation for "amplifone" games like Star Wars and >Major Havoc >* center, linearity, width, and pincusion controls (I made it variable, >unlike the Atari one) >* bypass switch (especially for Ray, so you don't "display correct" a >display corrected game like Space Duel (starts looking really weird if >you do... ;-) > >I might go ahead and add the Sega conversion stuff and just leave it >unpopulated in the kits to save $$$. You can populate it yourself if >you want. ;-) > >The board doesn't actually "care" if it's used on the x or y axis (since >it's adjustable). So, for those of you that just HAVE to have perfectly >square boxes you can use two of them--one to correct the X and one to >correct the Y. I think most people would be hard-pressed to notice the >bow in horizontal lines...) > >I'm thinking I might buy enough 1495's for 25 or so kits... > >-Clay jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 09:54:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:54:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:53:53 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Okay, nuther dumb question.... > > What is the status of the bootleg Cinematronics board that runs a > Wells Gardner B&W? > > What I'm leading to is.... > > I'd like to see a "universal" adapter for color WG19K6101. > > Something that would let us run Cinematronics in B&W (or color if we > can hack that) > & pincushion for Atari boards needing it > & Sega XY stuff even if we must suffer with a smaller image & > scattered stray vectors > for now. > I've thought about how to pull off a "universal" thing too, but until I convince myself that we can "upgrade" WG6100's to something faster I wasn't too worried about it. Was it Al who had the pirate Cinemat B/W board? I was curious to see what they did there... I'm still futzing with the display corrector. I forgot that the "output" stages of Star Wars (and probably Major Havoc too) have width/height adjustments. Since the adapter uses the width and height values to generate its correction factor you can really mangle the display unless you take the "inputs" BEFORE the width adjustment pots. (at least on Star Wars-- good thing I had the input protection board on the WG6100 I was testing with) Isthere a schematic online of the Major Havoc vector generator output stage somewhere? -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 09:54:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:54:46 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980128115620.009c4790@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:56:21 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: fixing a newer g-05 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) At 05:10 PM 1/28/98 GMT, you wrote: >I had some asteroids machines that had simular problems and all the >transistors tested OK, but when I replaced them, it fixed the problem. > >-jeff > This brings to mind a question I've been meaning to bring up for awhile. I've come across quite a few transistors that tested OK, but just would not work in my Wells. I believe I have the same problem in one of my G-08's right now and was wondering if someone could explain to me how exactly to be sure that a transistor is good enough to use. Thanks, Mit From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 09:56:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:56:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:56:32 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Was it Al who had the pirate Cinemat B/W board? I was curious to see what they did there..." yes, the drawing for one of them (there were two different designs) is up on the schematic page on spies. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 09:59:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:59:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Vectorbeam Question Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:00:04 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day folks, If you haven't moved the "VAR/NORM" jumper to the norm position on the Solar Quest boards, you'll need to do so. This may be why you are getting the funny vectors. The monitor from the Rip Off cocktail does NOT support variable intensity (nor color for that matter). Let us know if this is the solution...has anybody else every left a motherboard on "VAR" but used it with a monitor that doesn't support variable intensity? As far as I know only Cinematronics had rights to RipOff. They did licsence it though to other manufacturers. I'm sure Vectorbeam was NOT one of those manufacturers. Only Space War(s) was made both by Vectorbeam and Cinematronics. Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - I'll assume your Rip Off cocktail cabinet is trashed and that's why you are getting rid of it? These were made by Centuri for Cinematronics in the USA. I've only seen one in my decade of collecting (and it had been converted). I think someone just located a Star Castle cocktail which is also made by Centuri? In either case, no differences in any power/video pinouts from the regular Cinematronics uprights. >---------- >From: Danger wil[SMTP:Dangerwil@aol.com] >Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 8:00 PM >To: vectorlist@spies.com >Cc: Danger wil >Subject: Vectorbeam Question > >Well, > > I am fixing to get rid of my Rip Off cocktail and so pulled it out to >monkey around with a bit. It didn't have any boards, so I pulled out an >untested set of Solar Quest bds and plugged them in. > > After praying to all the smoke gods, I plugged it in and wow it actually >came up, well kinda. The sound board makes a game sound on power up and the >monitor comes on. I can hear it making vectors but with the brightness >turned >all the way up all I see is groupings of dots. These dots seem to be moving >and I can see what looks like a high score table in attract mode, but just in >formless clumps of dots. > > It doesn't coin up or make any other noises, but I tend to think that is >probably because of differences in the games pinouts??????????/ > >Well any ideas would be a help. I might want to play around with it some >more, before I send it off. > >BTW This is the weirdest setup I have ever seen. The whole thing looks >homemade. The monitor tube is actually hinged and pulls up to expose the >chassis and sound board. The power supply and chassis are both marked >vectorbeam, but the game is manufactured by Centuri?? > >Happy Gaming, > >Bill > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 10:18:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:17:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Vectorbeam Question Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:16:39 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Well any ideas would be a help. I might want to play around with it > some > more, before I send it off. > Hey Bill, Hmmmm, it actually sounds like the exact same symptom I had from the Space Wars sit-at that I fixed a while back. Zonn was probably pointing you in the right direction with the 7406. It's been too long for me to remember the details off the top of my head, but basically there is a "voltage watchdog" that blanks the beam (mostly) if one of the voltages isn't present (something like that anyway). I had some inexplicable problem in that circuit, so I just lifted the pin on the 7406 and it started working. I figure if it lost one of the voltage supply rails in the first place I'd notice it... -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 11:12:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:12:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:11:27 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill WRT the display corrector being used with Sega boards, Ray wrote: > Sega buffer circuit for both X and Y on one board then? Or... > [...] > ...would one need 2 boards? > Well, the corrector provides "size" adjustment for one axis, so I think another op-amp would cover the other axis. If I put two op-amps on the inputs to the board I shouldn't need any extra circuitry for the Sega stuff... -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 11:49:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:49:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Vectorbeam Question Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:50:35 GMT Message-ID: <34d68b18.54621441@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:00:04 -0800, "Ozdemir, Steve" wrote: >G'day folks, > >If you haven't moved the "VAR/NORM" jumper to the norm position on the >Solar Quest boards, you'll need to do so. This may be why you are >getting the funny vectors. The monitor from the Rip Off cocktail does >NOT support variable intensity (nor color for that matter). Let us know >if this is the solution...has anybody else every left a motherboard on >"VAR" but used it with a monitor that doesn't support variable >intensity? I guess Steve's idea of moving the jumper is easier than finding a = different working CPU!! This could very well be the only problem. >As far as I know only Cinematronics had rights to RipOff. They did >licsence it though to other manufacturers. I'm sure Vectorbeam was NOT >one of those manufacturers. Only Space War(s) was made both by >Vectorbeam and Cinematronics. When it comes to this kind of information I trust Steve more than = anything I've heard, especially since he's the source of most of my information!! One thing I do know is that after Cinematronics re-merge with Vectorbeam,= there were a lot of Vectorbeam parts around. It could be that you have a = Vectorbeam monitor (and power supply, etc.) that was installed by Cinematronics = using old Vectorbeam stock at hand. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 11:49:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:49:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:48:49 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Vectorbeam Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Ozdemir, Steve wrote: > ps - I'll assume your Rip Off cocktail cabinet is trashed and that's why > you are getting rid of it? These were made by Centuri for Cinematronics > in the USA. I've only seen one in my decade of collecting (and it had > been converted). I think someone just located a Star Castle cocktail > which is also made by Centuri? In either case, no differences in any > power/video pinouts from the regular Cinematronics uprights. > The Star Castle cocktail is made by Cinematronics (i.e. there's no mention of anyone but Cinematronics on it anywhere...) Joe From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 12:23:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:23:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Vectorbeam Question Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:23:55 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day folks, I like Zonn's theory of old Vectorbeam stock being reused by Centuri after the remerge of Vectorbeam with Cinematronics. Sounds plausible to me.... [ Fictitous story about two guys cleaning up the Vectorbeam building before they close it forever: ] George: "Hey, what are we going to do with the inventory? It's marked as 'working'." Harry: "I don't know...there isn't any room in San Diego. I know that for sure." George: "Hmmm...weren't we suppose to ship a bunch of motherboards off to Centuri next week?" Harry: "Hey! That's a good idea! I'll call the boss in San Diego...you make up the address labels." George: "But this stuff may not actually work." Harry: "Who cares? Let Centuri figure that out...we also don't have the spare capacity anywho in San Diego to supply Centuri really. They'll send back the broken ones and we can replace them later." OK, so I went a little off the deep end, but I've heard of weirder things than this. Does anyone know someone who worked at Cinematronics back then? That's who we should be trusting for accurate accounts about why there's a Vectorbeam in a Centuri version of a Cinematronics product! Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - I do remember finding Vectorbeam boards in Cinematronics games. I figured the same thing...it had something to do with the remerge. >---------- >From: zonn@zonn.com[SMTP:zonn@zonn.com] >Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 11:50 AM >To: vectorlist@spies.com >Cc: zonn@zonn.com >Subject: Re: Vectorbeam Question > >On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:00:04 -0800, "Ozdemir, Steve" wrote: > >>G'day folks, >> >>If you haven't moved the "VAR/NORM" jumper to the norm position on the >>Solar Quest boards, you'll need to do so. This may be why you are >>getting the funny vectors. The monitor from the Rip Off cocktail does >>NOT support variable intensity (nor color for that matter). Let us know >>if this is the solution...has anybody else every left a motherboard on >>"VAR" but used it with a monitor that doesn't support variable >>intensity? > >I guess Steve's idea of moving the jumper is easier than finding a different >working CPU!! This could very well be the only problem. > >>As far as I know only Cinematronics had rights to RipOff. They did >>licsence it though to other manufacturers. I'm sure Vectorbeam was NOT >>one of those manufacturers. Only Space War(s) was made both by >>Vectorbeam and Cinematronics. > >When it comes to this kind of information I trust Steve more than anything >I've >heard, especially since he's the source of most of my information!! > >One thing I do know is that after Cinematronics re-merge with Vectorbeam, >there >were a lot of Vectorbeam parts around. It could be that you have a >Vectorbeam >monitor (and power supply, etc.) that was installed by Cinematronics using >old >Vectorbeam stock at hand. > >-Zonn > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: > |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically > / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures > / / //\\ // (__) > / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com > -------| // \\/ > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 12:41:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:41:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: More display corrector stuff... Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:40:23 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill For what it's worth... Major Havoc has the same output stages as Star Wars. (This confuses me slightly since I thought some of the behavior I was seeing in the display corrector was an artifact of the width pots on Star Wars. Going to have to figure that out.) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 14:15:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:15:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Vectorbeam Question Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:16:32 GMT Message-ID: <34d0acbf.63238065@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:23:55 -0800, "Ozdemir, Steve" wrote: >G'day folks, > >I like Zonn's theory of old Vectorbeam stock being reused by Centuri >after the remerge of Vectorbeam with Cinematronics. Sounds plausible to >me.... > >[ Fictitous story about two guys cleaning up the Vectorbeam building >before they close it forever: ] > >George: "Hey, what are we going to do with the inventory? It's marked >as 'working'." > >Harry: "I don't know...there isn't any room in San Diego. I know that >for sure." > >George: "Hmmm...weren't we suppose to ship a bunch of motherboards off >to Centuri next week?" > >Harry: "Hey! That's a good idea! I'll call the boss in San Diego...you >make up the address labels." > >George: "But this stuff may not actually work." > >Harry: "Who cares? Let Centuri figure that out...we also don't have the >spare capacity anywho in San Diego to supply Centuri really. They'll >send back the broken ones and we can replace them later." > >OK, so I went a little off the deep end, but I've heard of weirder >things than this. Does anyone know someone who worked at Cinematronics >back then? That's who we should be trusting for accurate accounts about >why there's a Vectorbeam in a Centuri version of a Cinematronics >product! That ex-tech Joe (who I believe you've met) was working there just about = that time. He's the one that told me about the old Vectorbeam stuff (It was a= little more official than your above scenario! ;^) If you look in a lot of warriors you'll find a little daughter board that allowed for the use of 2708s that were flooding the market cheap, in the = C-CPU. These were left over from the Vectorbeam merge. He said they installed quite a bit of Vectorbeam stuff in the games that = went out. Nothing was wasted. The management was very cheap. BTW: Joe (who used to repair the CCPU boards for a living) says the = Vectorbeam stuff was much better than the Cinematronics equivalents. They used = better PCB materials, and thicker metal in the monitor frames. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 15:05:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:04:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Dangerwil@aol.com Message-ID: <145d598.34cfb965@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:04:02 EST To: vectorlist@spies.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Vectorbeam Question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Dangerwil@aol.com Well, The cabinet has a label inside that is stamped allied leisure Rip Off #227. The power supply is a vectorbeam with those damn circuit breakers. The monitor chassis has vectorbeam silkscreened on it. 19" b/w with a tie dye gel overlay. The monitor glass reads Centuri, Hialeah, Florida. I swear this thing was made in someone's garage. The coin entry was handmade, you can see where the sweated it together and the jaggedy cuts where they cut out for the coin mech. Similarly the legs are just square pipes welded together. The buttons look just like the old concave Gottlieb pinball buttons. As for it being trashed, nope I would say almost mint. Just a little flaking on the top glass. I know a guy, who having it, just might end up doing a little more with it then just sitting it in the corner and saying to his friends "look the only Rip Off cocktail known to exist" He just might invent some crazy board to let everybody play it. Anyways thanks for the help and I will try some of the troubleshooting tips later. Bill From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 15:10:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:10:30 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: TVS as *input* clamping? Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:09:30 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Dunno if anyone suggested this yet or not, but as I was staring at the "input protection board" on a 314 deflection board in my vector monitor during lunch... Couldn't you just use bidirectional TVS' (at, say... 10V for "X" and 8.2V for "Y") across ground and the inputs? So if an op-amp failed and yanked the output the +/- rail the TVS would clamp it? Just a thought. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 15:12:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:11:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:10:40 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > yes, the drawing for one of them (there were two different designs) > is up on the schematic page on spies. > Ok, I'm blind. Where exactly might I find this? I'm probably staring right at it and I just don't realize it... -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 15:18:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:18:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:18:50 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: TVS as *input* clamping? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Couldn't you just use bidirectional TVS' (at, say... 10V for "X" and 8.2V for "Y") across ground and the inputs? So if an op-amp failed and yanked the output the +/- rail the TVS would clamp it?" yes, you could. I haven't looked at it in a while, wasn't there another problem with it, like it wouldn't clip in the negative or positive direction? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 15:21:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:20:58 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:20:56 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) it's in a non-obvious place (I probably should pull it out of the pdf file) http://www.spies.com/arcade/bronzeage/manuals/SpaceFortress.pdf it's the second to last page From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 15:32:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:32:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: TVS as *input* clamping? Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:31:11 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > "Couldn't you just use bidirectional TVS' (at, say... 10V for "X" and > 8.2V for "Y") across ground and the inputs? So if an op-amp failed > and > yanked the output the +/- rail the TVS would clamp it?" > > yes, you could. I haven't looked at it in a while, wasn't there > another problem with it, like it wouldn't clip in the negative or > positive direction? > Well, I'm trying to decide that as we speak... (Went and got the GI databook from the engineering library.) I think it's OK, you just use the bidirectional version of the part. Hmmmm. Anders/Zonn either of you ever actually *use* these things? (I haven't) -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 15:33:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:33:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:33:22 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: TVS as *input* clamping? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Well, I'm trying to decide that as we speak..." actually, i meant the orginal WG design From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 15:37:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:36:43 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Vectorbeam Question Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:37:59 GMT Message-ID: <34d5c01c.68195179@tommy.doctord.com> References: <145d598.34cfb965@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <145d598.34cfb965@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:04:02 EST, Dangerwil@aol.com wrote: >Well, > >The cabinet has a label inside that is stamped allied leisure Rip Off = #227. >The power supply is a vectorbeam with those damn circuit breakers. The >monitor chassis has vectorbeam silkscreened on it. 19" b/w with a tie = dye gel >overlay. The monitor glass reads Centuri, Hialeah, Florida. Hey I have one of those tie dyed gel overlays!! It was stuck in the back= of a Rockola Starcastle. It looked like shit on the Starcastle, it must of = been a Ripoff Overlay! (Do the colors look like they were screened like = newspaper print? Little dots that vary in size to change the intensity of the = color?) >I swear this thing was made in someone's garage. The coin entry was = handmade, >you can see where the sweated it together and the jaggedy cuts where = they cut >out for the coin mech. Similarly the legs are just square pipes welded >together. The buttons look just like the old concave Gottlieb pinball >buttons. Sounds like the inside of a Speedfreak. >As for it being trashed, nope I would say almost mint. Just a little = flaking >on the top glass. I know a guy, who having it, just might end up doing = a >little more with it then just sitting it in the corner and saying to his >friends "look the only Rip Off cocktail known to exist" He just might = invent >some crazy board to let everybody play it. You don't mean by that, that he's going to convert it to something else = do you? If so, what a shame... "Look the only Rip Off cocktail known to have = existed." -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 15:51:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:51:07 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980128164941.00a12710@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:49:41 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: RE: TVS as *input* clamping? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 03:31 PM 1/28/98 -0800, you wrote: > >> "Couldn't you just use bidirectional TVS' (at, say... 10V for "X" and >> 8.2V for "Y") across ground and the inputs? So if an op-amp failed >> and >> yanked the output the +/- rail the TVS would clamp it?" >> >> yes, you could. I haven't looked at it in a while, wasn't there >> another problem with it, like it wouldn't clip in the negative or >> positive direction? >> >Well, I'm trying to decide that as we speak... (Went and got the GI >databook from the engineering library.) I think it's OK, you just use >the bidirectional version of the part. Hmmmm. > >Anders/Zonn either of you ever actually *use* these things? (I haven't) > >-Clay I have not used TVSs before. I just got the latest Motorola databook on TVSs and Zeners. It has a thorough app note about theory/usage of TVSs that I am going to read to see if these deals will work. -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 16:02:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:01:56 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: TVS as *input* clamping? Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:03:12 GMT Message-ID: <34d8c682.69833977@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:09:30 -0800, Clay Cowgill = wrote: >Dunno if anyone suggested this yet or not, but as I was staring at the >"input protection board" on a 314 deflection board in my vector monitor >during lunch... > >Couldn't you just use bidirectional TVS' (at, say... 10V for "X" and >8.2V for "Y") across ground and the inputs? So if an op-amp failed and >yanked the output the +/- rail the TVS would clamp it? Wouldn't that be the same as back to back zeners? I've seen that used = quite a bit as input clamps. Does the input daughter board on the Sega system = contain back to back zeners? Seems like it did. (Isn't a bidirectional TVS, internally, really just two zeners back to = back?) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 16:05:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:05:16 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:06:23 GMT Message-ID: <34dac7de.70181777@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:20:56 -0800 (PST), aek (Al Kossow) wrote: >it's in a non-obvious place (I probably should pull it out of the >pdf file) > >http://www.spies.com/arcade/bronzeage/manuals/SpaceFortress.pdf Thanks for posting! I also went looking for this a while back and = couldn't find it! -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 16:08:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:08:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980128170718.00a12100@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:07:18 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: TVS as *input* clamping? In-Reply-To: <34d8c682.69833977@tommy.doctord.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 12:03 AM 1/29/98 GMT, you wrote: >On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:09:30 -0800, Clay Cowgill wrote: > >>Dunno if anyone suggested this yet or not, but as I was staring at the >>"input protection board" on a 314 deflection board in my vector monitor >>during lunch... >> >>Couldn't you just use bidirectional TVS' (at, say... 10V for "X" and >>8.2V for "Y") across ground and the inputs? So if an op-amp failed and >>yanked the output the +/- rail the TVS would clamp it? > >Wouldn't that be the same as back to back zeners? I've seen that used quite a >bit as input clamps. Does the input daughter board on the Sega system contain >back to back zeners? Seems like it did. > >(Isn't a bidirectional TVS, internally, really just two zeners back to back?) It is, however, there are physical differences in the manufacturing process of a TVS vs a zener. -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 16:09:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:09:57 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:08:56 -0500 (EST) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist@spies.com cc: Mit Matelske Subject: Re: fixing a newer g-05 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980128115620.009c4790@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mitchell Rohde On the question of transistors, I am unsure what everyone means when they say they "test" them. I am guessing that (like myself) this is simply a check with a digital meter to make sure some the BE and BC junctions are ok.... that it conducts when the right bias is applied to it. In the case of these big transistors for the monitors, simple tests like this may not do the trick (as you guys have seen). Similarly some power supplies test ok without load, but then when you hook them up... nada (I'm sure you guys have seen regulator circuits like this). The transistor's characteristics may have changed over time and from heavy usage, spikes, etc. I don't think it would be too hard to set up a decent test circuit for these... with the correct bias, a load, etc... but the quickest method is to just swap in new parts... if there is interest I could come up with something for testing... mitch On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Mit Matelske wrote: > At 05:10 PM 1/28/98 GMT, you wrote: > >I had some asteroids machines that had simular problems and all the > >transistors tested OK, but when I replaced them, it fixed the problem. > > > >-jeff > > > > This brings to mind a question I've been meaning to bring up for awhile. > I've come across quite a few transistors that tested OK, but just would > not work in my Wells. I believe I have the same problem in one of my > G-08's right now and was wondering if someone could explain to me how > exactly to be sure that a transistor is good enough to use. > > Thanks, > > Mit > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 16:14:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:14:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980128171258.00a0e250@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:12:58 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: fixing a newer g-05 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.32.19980128115620.009c4790@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 07:08 PM 1/28/98 -0500, you wrote: > > I don't think it would be too hard to set up a decent test circuit for >these... with the correct bias, a load, etc... but the quickest method is >to just swap in new parts... if there is interest I could come up with >something for testing... > > mitch A curve tracer would be nice...I could fit one in my garage! -Anders (lack of test equipment blues) ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 16:15:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:15:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:16:37 GMT Message-ID: <34dbc9a1.70632962@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:20:56 -0800 (PST), aek (Al Kossow) wrote: >it's in a non-obvious place (I probably should pull it out of the >pdf file) > >http://www.spies.com/arcade/bronzeage/manuals/SpaceFortress.pdf Hey that's cool! A Cinematronics to Atari B&W X/Y convertor board = already done up with Z-axis and everything! Adding Color to this (and Clay's corrector board for the WG color = monitor) shouldn't be all that hard! -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 16:17:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:17:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:17:00 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) since two people had problems finding it, i've copied the dac and monitor schematics over to the schematics section where the other cine schematics are. the other board that I have doesn't use DAC800's (i'll have to look, they may have been AD571's) From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 16:18:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:18:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Vectorbeam Question Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:19:10 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" >---------- >From: zonn@zonn.com[SMTP:zonn@zonn.com] >Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 3:37 PM >To: vectorlist@spies.com >Cc: zonn@zonn.com >Subject: Re: Vectorbeam Question > >On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:04:02 EST, Dangerwil@aol.com wrote: > >>Well, >> >>The cabinet has a label inside that is stamped allied leisure Rip Off #227. >>The power supply is a vectorbeam with those damn circuit breakers. The >>monitor chassis has vectorbeam silkscreened on it. 19" b/w with a tie dye >>gel >>overlay. The monitor glass reads Centuri, Hialeah, Florida. > >Hey I have one of those tie dyed gel overlays!! It was stuck in the back of >a >Rockola Starcastle. It looked like shit on the Starcastle, it must of been >a >Ripoff Overlay! (Do the colors look like they were screened like newspaper >print? Little dots that vary in size to change the intensity of the color?) > >>I swear this thing was made in someone's garage. The coin entry was >>handmade, >>you can see where the sweated it together and the jaggedy cuts where they >>cut >>out for the coin mech. Similarly the legs are just square pipes welded >>together. The buttons look just like the old concave Gottlieb pinball >>buttons. > >Sounds like the inside of a Speedfreak. > >>As for it being trashed, nope I would say almost mint. Just a little >>flaking >>on the top glass. I know a guy, who having it, just might end up doing a >>little more with it then just sitting it in the corner and saying to his >>friends "look the only Rip Off cocktail known to exist" He just might >>invent >>some crazy board to let everybody play it. > >You don't mean by that, that he's going to convert it to something else do >you? >If so, what a shame... "Look the only Rip Off cocktail known to have >existed." The only Rip Off cocktail that I've seen was converted a few days later. And I did it....just joking. 8^) 8^) 8^) I still regret passing that Rip Off cocktail up today. Along with the Quantum for $40 and a few other sad stories... >-Zonn > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: > |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically > / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures > / / //\\ // (__) > / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com > -------| // \\/ > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 16:26:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:26:49 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:26:46 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "Adding Color to this (and Clay's corrector board for the WG color = monitor) shouldn't be all that hard!" You volunteering to do the Z axis design? You know it better than I do.. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 16:51:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:51:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:52:27 GMT Message-ID: <34ded189.72657190@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:26:46 -0800 (PST), aek (Al Kossow) wrote: >"Adding Color to this (and Clay's corrector board for the WG color =3D >monitor) >shouldn't be all that hard!" > >You volunteering to do the Z axis design? You know it better >than I do.. I don't have the time or tools to layout a PCB, but if someone were = willing to layout a board, I would be willing to spend the time tracing through a = Color conversion board to come up with the Z-axis circuitry used by = Cinematronics. (I did it once for the emulator, but I only carried it far enough to = determine the color values and polarities.) -Zonn (I can't believe I just volunteered to do this, in my *spare* time. = Geeze!! I want Clay's job!) <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 17:05:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:05:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Danger wil Message-ID: <76755590.34cfcb98@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:21:43 EST To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Vectorbeam Question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Danger wil In a message dated 98-01-28 18:38:09 EST, you write: > Hey I have one of those tie dyed gel overlays!! It was stuck in the back of a > Rockola Starcastle. It looked like shit on the Starcastle, it must of been > a > Ripoff Overlay! (Do the colors look like they were screened like newspaper > print? Little dots that vary in size to change the intensity of the color?) > No, it looks more like some kind of ink or paint. yellow spot in the middle, red surround, then blue. No fade the colors just smear into one another. No worries about conversion just it might be used as a "test tube for some crazy hack experiments. I changed the jumper and it came up just fine!!!! Next question, can I put any other roms in this SQ bdset?, he asked, hoping beyond hope to play a game of Star Castle... THANKS!!! Bill From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 17:13:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:13:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:12:17 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > I don't have the time or tools to layout a PCB, but if someone were > willing to > layout a board, I would be willing to spend the time tracing through a > Color > conversion board to come up with the Z-axis circuitry used by > Cinematronics. > I'll volunteer to do a PCB is Zonn figures out the color section. I bet we can do it without the op-amps for the color guns. Atari just uses a couple transistors... -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 17:21:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:21:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Wells Gardner "display corrector"... Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:20:14 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > since two people had problems finding it, i've copied the > dac and monitor schematics over to the schematics section > where the other cine schematics are. the other board that > I have doesn't use DAC800's (i'll have to look, they may > have been AD571's) > Hey Al, Looking at the schematic now... They're calling out DAC1280's? Those are NatSemi parts, aren't they? The thing actually looks pretty simple. Were those 680pF caps in the integrator anything "special"? (Like Polycarb or something?) I assume that the transistor setup in the lower left is just a level convertor to set the control voltage of the 4016 gates to +/- 7.5V? I bet they really don't need the full swing there... Probably GND and >6.8V would work... -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 17:31:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:31:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Vectorbeam Question Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:32:24 GMT Message-ID: <34dfdb20.75111905@tommy.doctord.com> References: <76755590.34cfcb98@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <76755590.34cfcb98@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:21:43 EST, Danger wil wrote: >In a message dated 98-01-28 18:38:09 EST, you write: > >> Hey I have one of those tie dyed gel overlays!! It was stuck in the = back of >a >> Rockola Starcastle. It looked like shit on the Starcastle, it must = of >been=20 >> a >> Ripoff Overlay! (Do the colors look like they were screened like = newspaper >> print? Little dots that vary in size to change the intensity of the >color?) >> =20 > > >No, it looks more like some kind of ink or paint. yellow spot in the = middle, >red surround, then blue. No fade the colors just smear into one = another. Still sounds like the same thing I got... >No worries about conversion just it might be used as a "test tube for = some >crazy hack experiments. > >I changed the jumper and it came up just fine!!!! =20 > >Next question, can I put any other roms in this SQ bdset?, he asked, = hoping >beyond hope to play a game of Star Castle... I believe Steve wrote the definitive article on this kind of conversion. Basically you'll have to burn new roms by using 2732s and copying the = Star Castle images (2716s) into each ROM twice to fill the ROM, you then have = to re-arrange the control panel harness to make it useable with Star Castle,= and last but not least you won't have sound, though Star Castle is probably = one of the easiest sounds board to find... =46ind Steve's conversion article, is it on spies? -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 17:54:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:54:40 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:54:38 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Vectorbeam Question Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "find Steve's conversion article, is it on spies?" www.spies.com/arcade/conversion/CinematronicsConversions From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Jan 28 21:40:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:40:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:39:39 -0700 (MST) From: Anders Knudsen X-Sender: andersk@janeway To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Re: TVS as *input* clamping? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Dunno if anyone suggested this yet or not, but as I was staring at the > "input protection board" on a 314 deflection board in my vector monitor > during lunch... > > Couldn't you just use bidirectional TVS' (at, say... 10V for "X" and > 8.2V for "Y") across ground and the inputs? So if an op-amp failed and > yanked the output the +/- rail the TVS would clamp it? > > Just a thought. > > -Clay Hey, great you should see this also! I thought of this exact OV protection quite a while back. I have some TVSs sitting in the basement somewhere that I was going to try but never got around to it. I need to get my Space Duel up and running, since it is the only deflection board I have without the "atari" OV protection. I say yes. Using bidir TVSs soldered directly to the input of the deflection would be perfect OV protection! -Anders. +------------------------------------------+ | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center +------------------------------------------+ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 29 02:31:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:31:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980129022917.006d981c@mail.cari.net> X-Sender: gaymond@mail.cari.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:29:17 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Gaymond Lee Subject: Re: Vectorbeam Question In-Reply-To: <34d5c01c.68195179@tommy.doctord.com> References: <145d598.34cfb965@aol.com> <145d598.34cfb965@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Gaymond Lee >You don't mean by that, that he's going to convert it to something else do you? >If so, what a shame... "Look the only Rip Off cocktail known to have existed." A buddy of mine in Minnesota has a Rip Off cocktail. I had a chance to buy it back in 1990 when he moved out to San Diego. I had a chance to buy it back then but decided against it since I was still searching for my first Defender. Gaymond Lee From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 29 06:37:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:36:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199801291437.JAA12972@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Vectorbeam Question To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:37:30 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <76755590.34cfcb98@aol.com> from "Danger wil" at Jan 28, 98 07:21:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Paul Kahler > Next question, can I put any other roms in this SQ bdset?, he asked, hoping > beyond hope to play a game of Star Castle... Armor Attack should run just fine. Any of the 8K games will work if you put 2 copies of the data in each ROM so as to use the same type chips. It should be able to run everything but Boxing Bugs if you put the data into the roms correctly. I'm not sure Steve's FAQ will tell how to get EVERY game to work, but it can be done with that board (except BB). Sound and controls are another story. -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 29 12:04:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:04:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Multigames shipped... Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:03:08 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Just an FYI, some multigames have shipped (I'm basically working in the order that I received checks). If you get one in the next couple of days, please drop me a note and tell me if the packaging arrived intact and w/out damage to the contents. (I've got 'em static bagged and wrapped in bubble-wrap, but the DHL envelopes are kinda wimpy...) Thanks, -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 29 16:14:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:14:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: SP0250's... Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:13:21 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill ...have arrived! Got 76 of 'em. Look good-- new, no bent leads or oxidation. So, $7 a pop. $1.50 shipping/packaging for 1 or 2 (USPS). $3 shipping for 3 or more (priority mail). Send check, MO, cash to: Clay Cowgill 109 SE 175th Ave Vancouver, WA 98683 -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 29 16:18:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:18:20 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34D11B23.7E14@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:13:23 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Multigames shipped... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Just an FYI, some multigames have shipped (I'm basically working in the > order that I received checks). > > If you get one in the next couple of days, please drop me a note and > tell me if the packaging arrived intact and w/out damage to the > contents. (I've got 'em static bagged and wrapped in bubble-wrap, but > the DHL envelopes are kinda wimpy...) > > Thanks, > -Clay > > Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager > ------------------------------------------------- > /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. > \/ Communications Division Hi, Clay! Wen you get around to sending mine, please send it via Air Mail only, please to avoid customs clearance charges.Thanks John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 29 17:12:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:10:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:09:51 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Re: SP0250's... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Clay Cowgill wrote: > ...have arrived! Got 76 of 'em. Look good-- new, no bent leads or > oxidation. ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 29 19:07:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:06:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:05:27 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Re: SP0250's... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" Whoops. I ment to ask if Clay (or anyone) knows how the SP0250 compares to chips like the Vortrax SC-01 or the SSI-263. Part of a non vector-related project. (I've decided to redo my High School robot project with a 486 motherboar dinstead of the Timex Sinclair 1000 it now has. I have a brand new SC-01 I bought from MicroMint back then, and a Heathkit ISA voice card with an SSI-263 on it. I've also juse found out that Linux journal published plans for a card with the SP0250 last year, so I'm trying to decide what to use for my robot project). Hmm -- maybe I can put a vector monitor on the robot ??? :-) -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 29 19:13:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:13:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:13:12 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: SP0250's... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "I've also juse found out that Linux journal published plans for a card with the SP0250 last year, so I'm trying to decide what to use for my robot project" ..there goes the rest of the world's supply of SP0250's :-) are you sure they didn't use a SP0256? seems like the 250 would have been a really odd part for them to pick From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 29 19:53:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:53:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:52:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: SP0250's... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Al Kossow wrote: > are you sure they didn't use a SP0256? seems like the 250 > would have been a really odd part for them to pick "Oh. Never Mind." (See, I was looking at the speech stuff this afternoon, and thought "Gee, that part number looks familiar". Then Clay posts, and I go "Hey, THAT part number looks familiar" and . . . Oh well) I'll stick with what I have. ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 29 22:42:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:42:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980129224258.0061fc10@u1.netgate.net> X-Sender: grigsby@u1.netgate.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:42:58 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: The Grigsbeast Subject: BSP: Bay Area people may want to check this out In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: The Grigsbeast This is not old-vector-game related, but I believe it of interest to people who enjoy classic games. As some of you already know, I work for Acclaim Coin-op. I've spent the past three years (!) trying to get the company started (I am employee #2) and get our first game, "Armageddon", out the door. Well, it's finally on test, in the San Francisco Bay Area, at the Namco Wonderpark in the Great Mall in Milpitas. (An older version was at Golfland for a little while, and a couple of test units are out somewhere in the US, but this new version plays about thirty times better.) Anyone who is disappointed that no one does anything but fighting/driving/shooting games anymore, which is probably most of this list, absolutely needs to go check this thing out. It's not a remake of some obscure classic, it's a totally fresh game design, and by that I do *NOT* mean "driving game with a jet-ski on the front" or "gun game with a pedal" or "plus it has a RUN button". Plus, it has trackballs which light up. You can't miss it. // grigs From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Jan 29 22:54:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:54:34 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D1CDBD2@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Softla initial impressions Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:53:49 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" Well I just got mine today. DOS only app. Software came on 1 3.5" floppy with a hand written label. Docs were single sided copies (19 pages) Tech support: A phone # (no name) Triggering is a masked word. Once it sees the trigger word it will start logging. You can set "Don't care" bits. Up to the whole 16 bits can be used in the trigger. Has a "Scope" mode. Timebases: "Fast", 50us, 100us, 200us, 500us, 1ms. Fast is as fast as the computer can go. A figure is computed then displayed (I have not tried yet). One question for the list. Assuming I wanted to check the vector processor section of a BZ what would be a reasonably good sample rate? The cable from B&G Micro. Half a printer cable and a baggy of black micro clips. Do it yourself. Don't waste the $ if you have some micro clips already. I am going to probably return that and use a cable I already have and some more color coded clips. I also ordered there parallel printer programming book. I think it would be pretty easy to write up a bit more functional piece of software. But I am still not giving up on my CatBox project. David > ---------- > From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:clayc@diamondmm.com] > Reply To: vectorlist@spies.com > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 10:36 AM > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: Clay Cowgill > Subject: Re: Sega boards (and Huntron again) (and BG Micro) > > >Sheesh, that seems like a fairly simple device. It generates a low > >current ac signal, switches it through a number of gates, and stores the > >results. The Huntron 2000 can be replaced with a scope and about $10 in > >parts. Perhaps the DSI 700 would cost about $100 in parts and stuff. I > >think reverse engineering on this item would be a snap. > > The one described a while back was just two transformers wired up to be > about 3VAC at 60Hz. "Fairly Simple" describes it quite well. It wouldn't > be too hard to marry that to a couple channels of A/D with a PC. The > Huntron things look like they can control lots of "range" type behavior > for > testing voltages and I'm sure there are a lot of other bells and whistles. > But... If you could make one that was 50% as good for <$100 it would be > pretty damn cool. ;-) > > >Speaking though of interesting software/hardware, has anyone else looked > >at BG Micro's ( http://www.bgmicro.com ) SOFTLA product? > >I bought one to try out, and it looks interesting. "Turn your PC into a > >logic analyzer." "Monitor up to 16 channels simultaniously, with this > >nufty piece of softwear. Measure time in micro seconds between any tow > >points." Software $29.95, cable kit $17.90. Requires 286 or faster with > >a bi-directional parallel port (non bi-directional will only support 8 > >traces) > > That would probably be OK for bringing up home-brew projects. (The price > is > right!) When I use a logic analyzer I typically want to look at an > address > range or data and usually a couple other signals to qualify the trigger. > The triggering is the big help on an LA, IMHO. If something isn't working > and I get frustrated enough I'll just put the LA on it and capture all the > addresses and data going over the bus. Pretty easy to see where things > are > getting stuck that way. They're also REALLY helpful for debugging > programmable logic where you have a dozen or two signals coming in that > all > affect the outputs. 100's of nanosecond resolution works for most all old > game boards-- it's nice to have 16 bits for address, 8 bits for data, and > a > few more bits for WR/RD, etc... > > -Clay > > Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager > _______________________________________________________________________ > /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com > \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ > > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 04:47:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:47:03 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:46:06 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@spies.com cc: The Grigsbeast Subject: Re: BSP: Bay Area people may want to check this out In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980129224258.0061fc10@u1.netgate.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, The Grigsbeast wrote: > Plus, it has trackballs which light up. You can't miss it. Web site. Pictures. Screen shots. ?? :-) -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 05:44:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 05:41:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:40:48 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: BSP: Bay Area people may want to check this out To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-id: <01ISZCQ8XA8Y00XGCN@Eisner.DECUS.Org> Organization: Digital Equipment Computer Users Society X-VMS-To: IN%"vectorlist@spies.com" X-VMS-Cc: BROWN_DU MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Duncan Brown All, > Well, it's finally on test, in the San Francisco Bay Area, at the Namco > Wonderpark in the Great Mall in Milpitas. (An older version was at > Golfland for a little while, and a couple of test units are out somewhere > in the US, but this new version plays about thirty times better.) > > Anyone who is disappointed that no one does anything but > fighting/driving/shooting games anymore, which is probably most of this > list, absolutely needs to go check this thing out. It's not a remake of > some obscure classic, it's a totally fresh game design, and by that I do > *NOT* mean "driving game with a jet-ski on the front" or "gun game with a > pedal" or "plus it has a RUN button". I saw what I guess was the slightly older version of this last fall at the AMOA show in Atlanta. If what they've released is 30 times better than that, this is definitely a game you should check out. This is *not* your father's video game. Duncan From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 06:21:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 06:21:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199801301422.JAA02797@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: BSP: Bay Area people may want to check this out To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:22:00 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980129224258.0061fc10@u1.netgate.net> from "The Grigsbeast" at Jan 29, 98 10:42:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Paul Kahler > As some of you already know, I work for Acclaim Coin-op. I've spent the > past three years (!) trying to get the company started (I am employee #2) > and get our first game, "Armageddon", out the door. So where do I sign up? ;-) It'd be nice if there were game companies in the Detroit area, our people cost less, and there are plenty of would-be game developers (even some competent ones). The last place I worked did FEA software & we had about 10 people who wanted to be game devs, but nothing ever came of it - people couldn't get organized when they weren't getting paid :-( I'll be sure to check out Armageddon if I see it. -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 08:25:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:24:52 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: SP0250's... Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:23:57 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > "I've also juse found out that Linux journal published plans > for a card with the SP0250 last year, so I'm trying to decide what to > use > for my robot project" > > ..there goes the rest of the world's supply of SP0250's :-) > As near as I can tell, I think the world's supply is probably sitting right next to me. Turns out that Online Technology-- a place specializing in supplying obsolete GI parts-- had just found these in DR Components inventory. When Joe (or somebody) on vectorlist mentioned that DR had 76 of them I thought it was funny that the number available was the same. I have a friend at DR Components, so I called him and he gave me the good price on 'em. :-) > are you sure they didn't use a SP0256? seems like the 250 > would have been a really odd part for them to pick > I agree. SP0256 would be much easier to find. I've got bunch of those if anyone wants any for building Mr. Robot or whatever... :-) -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 08:44:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:44:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: BSP: Bay Area people may want to check this out Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:44:45 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day folks, "Father's video game"? Well, I guess the first arcade video games came out in the 70's. And we are approcaching the end of the 90's. So that'd be twenty years and as such a generation. Now that you mention it, I do have some small ones running around. BUT, they like my arcade game collection....I guess they have good taste! (Well, that and at 3 years old, they don't know better....let's see what they say as 12 or 13, eh?) Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - Hope I can check out John's latest on one of my upcoming trips to the Bay Area! >---------- >From: Duncan Brown[SMTP:BROWN_DU@Eisner.DECUS.Org] >Sent: Friday, January 30, 1998 5:40 AM >To: vectorlist@spies.com >Cc: Duncan Brown >Subject: Re: BSP: Bay Area people may want to check this out > >All, > >> Well, it's finally on test, in the San Francisco Bay Area, at the Namco >> Wonderpark in the Great Mall in Milpitas. (An older version was at >> Golfland for a little while, and a couple of test units are out somewhere >> in the US, but this new version plays about thirty times better.) >> >> Anyone who is disappointed that no one does anything but >> fighting/driving/shooting games anymore, which is probably most of this >> list, absolutely needs to go check this thing out. It's not a remake of >> some obscure classic, it's a totally fresh game design, and by that I do >> *NOT* mean "driving game with a jet-ski on the front" or "gun game with a >> pedal" or "plus it has a RUN button". > > I saw what I guess was the slightly older version of this last > fall at the AMOA show in Atlanta. If what they've released is 30 > times better than that, this is definitely a game you should check > out. This is *not* your father's video game. > > Duncan > From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 08:47:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:46:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:46:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" cc: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: SP0250's... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Clay Cowgill wrote: > I agree. SP0256 would be much easier to find. I've got bunch of those > if anyone wants any for building Mr. Robot or whatever... :-) OK -- so I was a doofus. BUT, I'm still curious what the difference is between the old SC-01, SSI (which I think is really an SC-02), and these SP-0250 and 0256 chips. I would guess the 0250 is about like the SC-01 ? Does the 0256 sound significantly better ? ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 09:29:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:29:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:29:24 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: SP0250's... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "BUT, I'm still curious what the difference is between the old SC-01, SSI (which I think is really an SC-02), and these SP-0250 and 0256 chips" SC-01's are analog speech synthesizers. you set pitch and specifiy parameters to generate speech parts (eee aaa sss...) and string them together. SP250/256's and TI 5220's are similar, but are more 'dsp' ish in that you pass them digital filter coefficents and sound generator parameters in a compressed stream. The 256 has a lookup table to generate phonemes similar to the SC01. SC-02's were second generation Votrax parts. Did anyone ever turn up the data sheets for SC-01's or O2's? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 09:56:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:56:15 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199801301756.MAA10594@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: BSP: Bay Area people may want to check this out To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:56:57 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Ozdemir, Steve" at Jan 30, 98 08:44:45 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Paul Kahler > G'day folks, > > "Father's video game"? Well, I guess the first arcade video games came > out in the 70's. And we are approcaching the end of the 90's. So > that'd be twenty years and as such a generation. > > Now that you mention it, I do have some small ones running around. BUT, > they like my arcade game collection....I guess they have good taste! > (Well, that and at 3 years old, they don't know better....let's see what > they say as 12 or 13, eh?) WOW! Time is really going fast. Last time I saw Steve, his first kid was fresh outa the oven, and that seems like not too long ago. 1984 still seems like a previous life though... -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 10:01:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:01:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:00:13 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: SP0250's... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Al Kossow wrote: > Did anyone ever turn up the data sheets for SC-01's or O2's? I've got a set of datasheets for the SC-01 -- from MicroMint. (And an SC-01 in the little MicroMint box). I can see about getting the docs scanned. -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 10:01:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:01:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199801301801.NAA09260@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: SP0250's... To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:01:57 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Al Kossow" at Jan 30, 98 09:29:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Paul Kahler > Did anyone ever turn up the data sheets for SC-01's or O2's? Data sheets or not, they are fully understood by Frank P. as he wrote the Star Wars speech driver for MAME. Speak up Frank! -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 10:03:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:03:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:03:23 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: SP0250's... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "> Did anyone ever turn up the data sheets for SC-01's or O2's? Data sheets or not, they are fully understood by Frank P. as he wrote the Star Wars speech driver for MAME. Speak up Frank! " Star Wars uses a TI part. One of the problems the MAME folks were having simulating the SC-01 was the lack of a data sheet. I wonder how Frank is doing on the SP250 simulation? From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 10:05:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:05:36 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: SP0250's... Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:04:34 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > > Did anyone ever turn up the data sheets for SC-01's or O2's? > > Data sheets or not, they are fully understood by Frank P. as he wrote > the Star Wars speech driver for MAME. Speak up Frank! > That would be the TMS5220CNL then. (Not an SC-01 or 02). Still be interesting to hear about the 5220 though... ;-) I know Frank's working on SP0250/SP0256 stuff... -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 10:17:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:17:05 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Star Wars troubleshooting? Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:15:52 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Hi all, So... While working on my display corrector I discovered I have a bad Z output on a Star Wars AVG board. Couple questions. Is a DAC-08 equivalent to an MC1408 or a DAC0801? I thought I had a bad 74LS273 feeding the Z axis DAC, so I replaced that but it still didn't work. Then it looked like the TL082 was bad (pegged at -15V) so I replaced that. Still no joy. So I'm unsure of the DAC at this point. BUT, it looks like something else might have roasted too since connecting the color outputs to a monitor results in a REALLY bright (phosphor roasting) image. Well, the tube was burned in anyway, so I guess it's no big loss... ;-) Any ideas? -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 10:18:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:18:09 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:18:07 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Cine DAC board snapshots Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) I've uploaded four shots of the two different adapter boards from the Italian Star Castle boards that I have. The schematic up there is for the one which has DAC800's on it. I should probably trace out the other one, since it looks quite a bit simpler (it uses the National analog switch instead of the more common 4016 which needed lower supply voltages. They are on the schematics section on www.spies.com. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 10:19:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:19:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34D218AE.26EF@links.magenta.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:15:10 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: BSP: Bay Area people may want to check this out References: <3.0.5.32.19980129224258.0061fc10@u1.netgate.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey The Grigsbeast wrote: > Plus, it has trackballs which light up. You can't miss it. > > // grigs Ohh... a la Atari... I like it!! Send a test game out here to Wyoming! ;-) jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 10:22:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:22:14 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:22:12 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Star Wars troubleshooting? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) >From memory, the Burr Brown, Motorola and National parts were all the same; 8 bit current output DACs. The data sheets should be up on their web pages. Usual troubleshooting things to check; supply voltages, voltage reference, etc. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 10:35:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:34:51 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:34:48 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: national dac800 data sheet Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) i just put the national data sheet on the schematics page. Has anyone else noticed that manufacturers are pulling their on line data sheets as soon as the parts go obsolete? The wonders of the on line age (at least they don't ask for your old data books back and burn them..) From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 10:37:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:36:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34D21CEE.6B59@links.magenta.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:33:18 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: SP0250's... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Clay Cowgill wrote: > > > > Did anyone ever turn up the data sheets for SC-01's or O2's? > > > > Data sheets or not, they are fully understood by Frank P. as he wrote > > the Star Wars speech driver for MAME. Speak up Frank! > > > That would be the TMS5220CNL then. (Not an SC-01 or 02). Still be > interesting to hear about the 5220 though... ;-) I know Frank's working > on SP0250/SP0256 stuff... > Frank has a really good 5220 to .wav conversion program and Quadravox wrote one for me as well. I also have the entire 5220 data sheet with all the speech parameters. I will put it up at http://www.gamearchive.com/tech/ti5220/ tonight sometime. I don't know where I got the .pdf but I have it for some reason. jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 10:56:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:55:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: national dac800 data sheet Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:56:28 GMT Message-ID: <34d22063.51881322@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:34:48 -0800 (PST), aek (Al Kossow) wrote: > >i just put the national data sheet on the schematics page. > >Has anyone else noticed that manufacturers are pulling their >on line data sheets as soon as the parts go obsolete? The >wonders of the on line age (at least they don't ask for >your old data books back and burn them..) I think I've mentioned his before, but just for the record the DAC800 is = a monolithic replacement of the DAC80 which was a hybrid part. It's a drop in replacement for the DAC80 (with better specs) in any Cinematronics monitor. Be careful though, they come in two flavors, = Voltage and Current (as do the DAC80's). Cinematronics uses Voltage outputs. I accidently picked up some current types at a surplus store. I didn't = notice until I had plugged one in. The weird thing is that it nearly works, but everything is inverted. Strange. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 11:31:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:31:28 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <01BD2D8B.103D5180@pc165.prog.altair.com> From: Frank Palazzolo To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Voice chips Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:26:32 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Frank Palazzolo The TMS5220 data sheet is on my web page at... http://www.2bits.simplenet.com/techinfo.html I'm not sure who scanned it originally. The conversion program I have is just 5220 to raw PCM, then I used Cool Edit to make .wav files from them. I've gotten a bit distracted regarding the SP0250 emulation, (due to Al actually ;) ) but I'll be getting back to it in a week or so. The format of the SP0250 is in 15 byte sequences. It turn out that G-80 games have the 15 byte sequences compressed because they may not change all that much from frame to frame. I'm still decoding them - but it's only a matter of time. :) The rest of the simulation will hinge on recreating the digital filter used in there. And I've got a good idea what's in there. The SP0250 is very similar to the TMS5220, while the SP0256 is more sophisticated. It has a simple 4-bit micro and ROM in it, along with the exact same digital filter as the SP0250. You all will be the first to know when I get an SP0256 to say, "So - a creature for my amusement!" Actually, I believe a PIC could be used to replace a TMS5220 or SP0250, but I've got some time before this project becomes important (when Clay's stock runs out :) I'd like to try to get an SC-01 simulator going someday as well, but it's a lot uglier with a proprietary, analog, switched-cap type of a design. -Frank From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 11:35:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:35:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: "Rhea, Cristopher J." (Cris Rhea) Message-Id: <199801301934.NAA16022@sijer.Mayo.EDU> Subject: Re: Star Wars troubleshooting? To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:34:50 -0600 (CST) Cc: ClayC@diamondmm.com In-Reply-To: from "Clay Cowgill" at Jan 30, 98 10:15:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Rhea, Cristopher J." (Cris Rhea) > Couple questions. Is a DAC-08 equivalent to an MC1408 or a DAC0801? I > thought I had a bad 74LS273 feeding the Z axis DAC, so I replaced that > but it still didn't work. Then it looked like the TL082 was bad (pegged > at -15V) so I replaced that. Still no joy. So I'm unsure of the DAC at > this point. A DAC-08 (no suffix) has been replaced by a DAC0800... See http://www.national.com/pf/DA/DAC0800.html The 801 will probably work in a pinch though... --- Cris ----------------------------------------------------------- Cristopher J. Rhea Mayo Foundation Research Computing Facility Guggenheim 1001B crhea@Mayo.EDU Rochester, MN 55905 Fax: (507) 266-4486 (507) 284-0587 ----------------------------------------------------------- From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 11:37:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:37:47 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:36:59 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Re: Voice chips In-Reply-To: <01BD2D8B.103D5180@pc165.prog.altair.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Frank Palazzolo wrote: > I'd like to try to get an SC-01 simulator going someday as well, > but it's a lot uglier with a proprietary, analog, switched-cap type > of a design. > > -Frank > Hey now.....Sounds like my kind of a chip! Do you have a datasheet for it? Joe From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 14:30:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:30:21 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Forward Air? Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:29:06 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill I can't seem to locate the webpage I had used for Forward Air depot information. Anyone know what that is off the top of their heads? Thanks, -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 14:40:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:40:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:40:09 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: forward air Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/6996/forwardair.html From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 14:40:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:40:48 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:40:46 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: 6400 schematic Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) ..is up on the schematics page Anders says the interface board scan should be here soon From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 14:46:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:46:32 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980130154512.00a14100@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:45:12 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: forward air In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 02:40 PM 1/30/98 -0800, you wrote: > >http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/6996/forwardair.html > > FYI. Jeff H told me that Forward Air no longer ships vids. I guess they had too many people making insurance claims on them for vids. Leave it to a few people to ruin it for everyone! Jeff H, who was it you recently used? Was it Land Air? or something. -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 14:53:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:53:45 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: forward air Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:52:34 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > FYI. Jeff H told me that Forward Air no longer ships vids. I guess > they had > too many people making insurance claims on them for vids. Leave it to > a few > people to ruin it for everyone! > Jeff H, who was it you recently used? Was it Land Air? or something. > :-( Bummer! Can probably get away with it for stuff like a cocktail (hope so!)... I wonder if you can sign a damage waiver and just declare it as "salvage parts" or "monitor + electronics" or something. -Clay From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 15:06:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:06:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34D25CE1.8E901C2A@pobox.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:06:09 -0500 From: Corey Stup X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: forward air References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Corey Stup > :-( Bummer! Can probably get away with it for stuff like a cocktail > (hope so!)... I wonder if you can sign a damage waiver and just declare > it as "salvage parts" or "monitor + electronics" or something. The guys at my local Forwair Air (Louisville, KY/SDF) never had any complaints with games coming or going. Most were interested in my hobby, and wondered where they could get such a neat machine. Of course, this was just the local manager, not the underwriters for their insurance. I've had 6 or 7 machines shipped via Forward Air with no problems what-so-ever. I would guess that most problems were caused by poor shipping protection, not by Forward Air directly. I hope that the policy isn't across the board, but just for a few local offices. From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 15:07:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:07:10 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:07:08 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: forward air Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) "I wonder if you can sign a damage waiver and just declare it as "salvage parts" or "monitor + electronics" or something." ..or crate it From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 15:17:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:17:04 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: forward air To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:34:40 -0700 (MST) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980130154512.00a14100@btc.btc.adaptec.com> from "Anders Knudsen" at Jan 30, 98 03:45:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <34d271a00.42fa@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 529 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Kurt Mahan" > >http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/6996/forwardair.html > > FYI. Jeff H told me that Forward Air no longer ships vids. I guess they had > too many people making insurance claims on them for vids. Leave it to a few > people to ruin it for everyone! > Jeff H, who was it you recently used? Was it Land Air? or something. The last time I shipped a cocktail was via Delta Dash. Worked great. The guy I bought it from strapped it to a palette, wrapped some cardboard around it and away it went. Only about 60 bucks, too. Kurt From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 15:23:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:23:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:29:04 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: forward air Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Yea, I was trying to ship a game through them. I called them again last week and he told me that Forward Air will NOT ship video games any more. He told me this was a company wide policy, so if you can get something out through your local forward air depot, I recommend doing it now. If they already have that policy in place, crate it up real good and say it's a fridge. I ended up using Land Air Express. When they gave me a quote, he asked me what forward air was going to charge and he just picked $20/100 lbs. When I took my game in, they provided the palette and the plastic wrap, I brought along a bunch of cardboard and we wrapped it all up. He asked me if I was given a quote and I told him what it was, so it ended up costing me $100 to ship a 488 lbs. star wars cockpit from Denver to Texas. They have ports in TX (lots of them), IL, MO, CO, MI, TN, OK, NE, UT, KY, KS and Toronto. They told me I would need to get an account if I wanted to ship any more games. Their main location is in KY, and their number is (502) 781-0655. >At 02:40 PM 1/30/98 -0800, you wrote: >> >>http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/6996/forwardair.html >> >> > >FYI. Jeff H told me that Forward Air no longer ships vids. I guess they had >too many people making insurance claims on them for vids. Leave it to a few >people to ruin it for everyone! >Jeff H, who was it you recently used? Was it Land Air? or something. > >-Anders. > > ----------------------------------------- >| Anders Knudsen >| ASIC Design Engineer >| Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center >| anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com >| http://www.adaptec.com > ========================================= jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 15:37:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:37:25 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <008d01bd2dd7$d834cf00$66f4accf@station-1> From: "Eddie Pettit" To: Subject: Re: forward air Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:36:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Eddie Pettit" I just got off the phone with FA...called the LAX terminal and their 800 customer service and neither know anything about this???? They did say to call back tomorrow for an 'official' answer.... I'll let y'all know what they tell me --------- Looking for Side Art & 3D Goggles for Taito's Continental Circuit Sit Down Arcade Game Eddie Pettit Richmond VA Visit my homepage: http://www.erols.com/epettit/ Motorcycles - Arcade Games Visit my Company website: http://www.pettitcompany.com/ Public Records Filing & Research - Website Hosting & Design From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 16:10:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:10:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34D26B23.7C64@links.magenta.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:06:59 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: forward air References: <3.0.5.32.19980130154512.00a14100@btc.btc.adaptec.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Anders Knudsen wrote: > > At 02:40 PM 1/30/98 -0800, you wrote: > > > >http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/6996/forwardair.html > > > > > > FYI. Jeff H told me that Forward Air no longer ships vids. I guess they had > too many people making insurance claims on them for vids. Leave it to a few > people to ruin it for everyone! > Jeff H, who was it you recently used? Was it Land Air? or something. > > -Anders. FA is denver has been really weird for about 3 months now. I tried to ship some stuff about 5 months ago and they told me I needed to have an account with them to ship from that depot, even though that is not the case with EVERY other FA depot. Anyway, after faxing and faxing my stuff to the corporate office and never getting a response from Mitzi Shaw. I finally talked to someone else who set up my account. I figured everything would be a breze from here on out..... not! I went to ship the game and the depot manager said they weren't accepting any more accounts there. I ended up talking to him for an extended amount of time being frustrated and then all of a sudden after I mentioned that I was shipping FCOD, he said I didn't need an account and told me I could ship whatever I wanted. That worked out fine, I was shipping stuff down there about every two weeks from "The game spot". Jeff Hendrix got ahold of me about 2 months ago wanting to ship a game because when he talked to Tony, jeff was informed that you needed an account and they were not setting up any new accounts. I worked out a deal with Jeff to ship his game for him under my account (which I have done with another person in the area as well). I called forward air just to make sure everything was okay with my next shipping load and the "accounts" person said my account was 'under suspension' for unpaid freight charges. Hmmmmmmm, I said "well I only ship games COD, how can I owe you money?'. She replied, oh.... apparently the FA depot in Sacramento and Pheonix didn't collect the COD amount on the last two games you shipped". I really didn't see how that was my problem, being that I had shipped them COD. She went on.. " Our guy up here forgot to mark the games COD so they didn't know to collect the freight charges". Again, well I really don't see where that is MY problem, it seems a bit more like YOUR problem. "Well..." she went on again " we cant' allow you to ship any more games out of here until the freight charges have been paid". I supplied her with the phone #'s and names of the people that the games were shipped too and that is basically the last I have talked to them out of frustration. I wish there were other options in Denver, I would love to use them instead of FA. There is my story... I don't like FA much. jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 16:15:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:15:22 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34D26C64.4CF@links.magenta.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:12:20 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: forward air References: <34D25CE1.8E901C2A@pobox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Corey Stup wrote: > > > :-( Bummer! Can probably get away with it for stuff like a cocktail > > (hope so!)... I wonder if you can sign a damage waiver and just declare > > it as "salvage parts" or "monitor + electronics" or something. > > The guys at my local Forwair Air (Louisville, KY/SDF) never had any > complaints with games coming or going. Most were interested in my > hobby, and wondered where they could get such a neat machine. > > Of course, this was just the local manager, not the underwriters for > their insurance. > > I've had 6 or 7 machines shipped via Forward Air with no problems > what-so-ever. I would guess that most problems were caused by poor > shipping protection, not by Forward Air directly. HA!! I had a mint joust arrive in sacramento (different than the non-paid one). With ALL of the packing removed!! I had it completely wrapped in cardboard, nylon banded to the palette (I spent $300 on packing materials)and then stretch wrapped to hell (about 4 layers). Like I said, it arrived with nothing but the game sitting loosly on the palette. Interestingly enough, an employee at the Denver depot commented right after weighing the game, that that was his favorite game of all time and he wished he could play it again. Now, when I drop off games. I explicitly say.. "too bad it doesn't work" just to keep curious player away. Otherwise, I have never had any problems with games arriving in less than perfect condition. About 15 games so far. jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 16:47:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:47:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:53:26 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: forward air Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Jess, Did you see my post about LandAir Express? They said they would be more than glad to ship video games. Less than 24 hours after I talked to them, I had a game on their dock. Their Denver number is 329-0795, they did say that if you wanted to ship lots of stuff you would need to set up an account, they are the friendliest shipping company I have talked to yet. -jeff >Corey Stup wrote: >> >> > :-( Bummer! Can probably get away with it for stuff like a cocktail >> > (hope so!)... I wonder if you can sign a damage waiver and just declare >> > it as "salvage parts" or "monitor + electronics" or something. >> >> The guys at my local Forwair Air (Louisville, KY/SDF) never had any >> complaints with games coming or going. Most were interested in my >> hobby, and wondered where they could get such a neat machine. >> >> Of course, this was just the local manager, not the underwriters for >> their insurance. >> >> I've had 6 or 7 machines shipped via Forward Air with no problems >> what-so-ever. I would guess that most problems were caused by poor >> shipping protection, not by Forward Air directly. > >HA!! I had a mint joust arrive in sacramento (different than the >non-paid one). With ALL of >the packing removed!! I had it completely wrapped in cardboard, nylon >banded to the palette (I spent >$300 on packing materials)and then stretch wrapped to hell (about 4 >layers). Like I said, it arrived >with nothing but the game sitting loosly on the palette. Interestingly >enough, an employee at the Denver >depot commented right after weighing the game, that that was his >favorite game of all time and he wished he >could play it again. > Now, when I drop off games. I explicitly say.. "too bad it doesn't >work" just to keep curious player away. > >Otherwise, I have never had any problems with games arriving in less >than perfect condition. About 15 games so >far. > >jess >-- >Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** >Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * >509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * >Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 17:39:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:39:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <00f101bd2de8$ead174e0$66f4accf@station-1> From: "Eddie Pettit" To: "Therese" Cc: Subject: Fw: No more foward air? Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:38:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Eddie Pettit" The latest... -----Original Message----- From: The Retrodaddy Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 7:21 PM Subject: Re: No more foward air? >On 30 Jan 1998 23:39:24 GMT, ozdemir@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Steven S. >Ozdemir) wrote: > >>I heard on vectorlist that Forward Air had recently made a company >>wide policy that no more arcade video games would be shipped! >>That'd be a real shame if this turns out to be true. >They will ship if properly packed. Game must be standing up, and >completely enclosed. I and David Countryman have been shipping out of >the Atlanta terminal byt completely enclosing the machines with sheets >of cardboard, stretch warpped, and strapped to the pallet with nylon >banding. No more ratchet straps. >>ps - The nasty rumor is there were too many claims for damaged >>arcade games? I'd sure like the inside scoop about this! But >>realisticly, we'll never know why the policy really was changed. >That is the reason. David had a few games on theor loading dock that >they refused to ship until he went down and repacked them. :< > >My Web Page for arcade machine PCB trades and emulation links >http://members.tripod.com/~retrodaddy/ >http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Bay/7268/ >http://www.fortunecity.com/bally/skull/91/ >My ICQ Pager Number is 169923 From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 18:25:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:25:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34D288AE.7814@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:13:02 -0600 From: "Robert B. Wood" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-nnie30 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Fw: No more foward air? References: <00f101bd2de8$ead174e0$66f4accf@station-1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Robert B. Wood" I just took a Super Pacman and Tempest Mini to the New Orleans terminal on Saturday. Most amazing operation I have ever seen. The big modern warehouse was totally empty except for my two games. I asked them if the reason they don't serve smaller airports is because they only fly 747's. They told me that no my two shipments would be hauled by truck to their destinations in Milwaukee and Detroit. It's a mystery to me why a company called "Forward Air" which is located in the air cargo complex of an airport is shipping by truck. But no matter to me. The $58 rate is all I cared about. No mention of any policy to stop taking arcade games. I had them metal banded to pallets. Bob Wood From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 20:01:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:01:19 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980130230013.007e2da0@se.mediaone.net> X-Sender: dpage@se.mediaone.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:00:13 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: DP Subject: Re: Fw: No more foward air? In-Reply-To: <34D288AE.7814@worldnet.att.net> References: <00f101bd2de8$ead174e0$66f4accf@station-1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: DP I have shipped over 75 games with forward air. And I just got a game in last week. No mention of me not being able to ship anything out. And I know all the guys there. If there was any doubt, they would have mentioned it to me. I think maybe someone got the story wrong, or noone in my neck of the woods has heard about this. Dave From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 22:37:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:37:26 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980130223821.005fc870@u1.netgate.net> X-Sender: grigsby@u1.netgate.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:38:21 -0800 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: The Grigsbeast Subject: Re: BSP: etc. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980129224258.0061fc10@u1.netgate.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: The Grigsbeast Reply to the various questions: 1) We will have a web site soon...now that the graphics ROMs are frozen the artists are working on it. Finishing the game was more important, and if we had extra money we'd hire more engineers instead of getting someone to make a website for us. 2) The basic gameplay hasn't changed much since AMOA but the frame-rate is nearly doubled (!!!), in addition to the monsters being much more interesting, the play being tighter, music happening, bonus waves, lots of graphical flash...the devil is in the details. 3) If it tests well you'll see it in Wyoming and lots of other places. >:-) 4) If you miss games with LOTS of stuff happening you will like Armageddon. The closest analogy I can come up with is sort of a two-player competitive Robotron crossed with Missile Command, and that analogy breaks down quickly under stress. It's possible to get 50-60 monsters running around at once if you try hard enough. 5) It's based loosely on the Magic: the Gathering license, if you care. 6) It has a tally screen at the end of each round. Retro-junkies rejoice. // grigs From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 23:16:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:16:39 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34D2CF23.46D7@links.magenta.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 00:13:39 -0700 From: Jess Askey Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Fw: No more foward air? References: <00f101bd2de8$ead174e0$66f4accf@station-1> <3.0.5.32.19980130230013.007e2da0@se.mediaone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey DP wrote: > > I have shipped over 75 games with forward air. And I just got a game in > last week. No mention of me not being able to ship anything out. And I know > all the guys there. If there was any doubt, they would have mentioned it to > me. I think maybe someone got the story wrong, or noone in my neck of the > woods has heard about this. > > Dave Well the Denver depot seems to be different for some reason. The corporate HQ said they were more than happy to ship vids and that applied to all the depots. But time and time again, the manager at the denver depot (Tony) refuses to ship them!!?? Even vector games :-0 jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Jan 30 23:49:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:49:00 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 00:54:37 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: Fw: No more foward air? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Wouldn't you know that the only forward air depot to ban video game shipments would be the one I use. Tony told me it was company wide, I guess he wanted me to just accept it and go away. Well I guess I can still get games shipped TO me, there's nothing he can do if one arrives on a truck (well I guess they could tear it apart and trash it and say it happened in shipping and isn't covered) -jeff >DP wrote: >> >> I have shipped over 75 games with forward air. And I just got a game in >> last week. No mention of me not being able to ship anything out. And I know >> all the guys there. If there was any doubt, they would have mentioned it to >> me. I think maybe someone got the story wrong, or noone in my neck of the >> woods has heard about this. >> >> Dave > >Well the Denver depot seems to be different for some reason. The >corporate HQ said they were more than happy to ship vids and that >applied to all the depots. But time and time again, the manager at >the denver depot (Tony) refuses to ship them!!?? Even vector games :-0 > jess > > >-- >Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** >Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * >509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * >Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Jan 31 09:08:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:08:23 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:08:21 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: the other vector board Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek (Al Kossow) I took at the other board that I have from the Space Fortress and it looks more like the original circuit (except they didn't use a good cap in the vector 'integrator', they just used a disc ceramic (YUK!). It uses two National DAC1221's and a LF13331. Instead of the discrete brightness inverter, they use a 7404 on the brightness inputs. TL082's on the outputs..