From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 1 13:16:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 13:15:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Posted-Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 13:13:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971001151511.00929590@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 15:15:12 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Star Castle problems ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Alright Zonn and crew - So I finally replace the power transistors in my monitor in my Star Castle, and fire the game up. The led is flickering rapidly - damn. For I press on all the ribbon cables, to make sure that they are on well, and when I press the one leading to the control panel, the light stops flickering!!! I go and look at the monitor, and all I have is one ring of vectors, with the ends crossing each other, in the middle of the screen about 3 times to big! (what a run-on sentence) What is my best way to attack this problem? I have no other Cine games and I was using a switcher for my +5. Thanks for any and all help... Mit Matelske From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 1 13:41:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 13:41:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199710012034.PAA26736@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971001151511.00929590@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Wed, 1 Oct 97 15:34:58 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Star Castle problems ... References: <3.0.32.19971001151511.00929590@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You wrote: > What is my best way to attack this problem? While others chime in with real answers, I will mention that my Star Castle ("Working all the way!") is for sale. Looking for something in the low $200s. If folks have had people pestering them for this game, let me know. Game condition is rough (mainly side art), so probably not of interest to most people on this list (except maybe Paul ;-) Basically, I'm pricing it at the parts rate in hopes that it will find a loving home. Alas, I needed the space for my Star Wars, and am looking forward to the day I can again play these cnma classics in my Asteroids (hint hint Clay ;-) Machine is in lovely Rochester Minnesota. Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 1 13:43:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 13:43:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 13:44:58 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: LF13201 quad switches... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In the parts-trivia category... Some of you may have noticed that the LF13201 has gone on Lifetime-buy from National Semiconductor. (It's going away.) (The 13201 is the quad analog switch used in the Atari Analog Vector Generator.) The newest JDR Microdevices catalog (#63) has not one, but *two* replacements for them... The Siliconix DG201ACJ and the Analog Devices ADG201AKN. The Siliconix has some beefier specs and a lower R/on resistance than the LF13201, the ADG201AKN has pretty much identical specs to the National Semiconductor part. The price is right on both-- $1.39 in singles! -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 1 16:48:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 16:48:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Star Castle problems ... Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 23:50:27 GMT Message-ID: <3433df03.79930353@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3.0.32.19971001151511.00929590@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971001151511.00929590@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Wed, 01 Oct 1997 15:15:12 -0500, you wrote: >Alright Zonn and crew - > >So I finally replace the power transistors in my monitor in=20 >my Star Castle, and fire the game up. The led is flickering >rapidly - damn. For I press on all the ribbon cables, to=20 >make sure that they are on well, and when I press the one >leading to the control panel, the light stops flickering!!! >I go and look at the monitor, and all I have is one ring of >vectors, with the ends crossing each other, in the middle of=20 >the screen about 3 times to big! (what a run-on sentence) When the LED quits flickering and the monitor is displaying something, your machine at that point, maybe working fine. Have you played with the pots on the monitor? If they were max'ed you could have them set so that the X and Y sizes are stretched way beyond = the edge of the screen. The other two pots control the length of the lines, they are used to set the end points so they don't cross. Make sure the cable going from the monitor to the CPU board is good, if = you have a loose connection here, stranges things can happen to the display. If the picture is also blurring and/or dim and/or unstable in size, you might have a high voltage problem. Low high-voltage will cause the = display to *bloom*. >What is my best way to attack this problem? I have no other >Cine games and I was using a switcher for my +5. I'd start by checking to see what's loose or shorting that's causing the CPU's reset LED to flicker -- do this without the monitor plugged in. = Then I'd attack the monitor. Check to see that the game runs the demo fine without the control panel plugged in, if this is the case, look for short/bad connections in the control panel/wiring harness. Do the obvious things check and reseat the ROMs and ALUs and anything = else socketed. It maybe the LED flicker has nothing to do with the control panel connector, it maybe a bad socket that's affected when that area of the board is pressed. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 1 22:02:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 22:01:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34332BFB.1242FD67@istar.ca> Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 22:07:08 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: LF13201 quad switches... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I have about ten or twenty of the LF13331's if anyone needs them. Asking $5C ($4us)each... John :-#)# Clay Cowgill wrote: > In the parts-trivia category... > > Some of you may have noticed that the LF13201 has gone on Lifetime-buy from > National Semiconductor. (It's going away.) (The 13201 is the quad analog > switch used in the Atari Analog Vector Generator.) > > The newest JDR Microdevices catalog (#63) has not one, but *two* > replacements for them... The Siliconix DG201ACJ and the Analog Devices > ADG201AKN. The Siliconix has some beefier specs and a lower R/on > resistance than the LF13201, the ADG201AKN has pretty much identical specs > to the National Semiconductor part. > > The price is right on both-- $1.39 in singles! > > -Clay > > Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager > _______________________________________________________________________ > /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com > \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 2 07:03:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 07:02:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199710021402.KAA12594@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Star Castle problems ... To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 10:02:51 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <3433df03.79930353@tommy.doctord.com> from "Zonn" at Oct 1, 97 11:50:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >Alright Zonn and crew - > > > >So I finally replace the power transistors in my monitor in=20 > >my Star Castle, and fire the game up. The led is flickering > >rapidly - damn. For I press on all the ribbon cables, to=20 > >make sure that they are on well, and when I press the one > >leading to the control panel, the light stops flickering!!! > >I go and look at the monitor, and all I have is one ring of > >vectors, with the ends crossing each other, in the middle of=20 > >the screen about 3 times to big! (what a run-on sentence) The test pattern for Star Castle is one ring in the middle (not rotating) and 4 small boxes - on in the middle of each side of the screen. This pattern is for monitor/vector adjustment which it sounds like you need to do :-) Your friend, CREW :-) BTW, Clay & Bill. I can't buy anything right now. I've been thinking about getting out of this whole hobby & selling my stuff (except Tempest). Then again, I may not :-) -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 2 07:03:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 07:03:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Posted-Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 10:02:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971002090239.0091b520@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 09:02:41 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: Star Castle problems ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >When the LED quits flickering and the monitor is displaying something, >your machine at that point, maybe working fine. > >Have you played with the pots on the monitor? If they were max'ed you >could have them set so that the X and Y sizes are stretched way beyond the >edge of the screen. > >The other two pots control the length of the lines, they are used to set >the end points so they don't cross. > >Make sure the cable going from the monitor to the CPU board is good, if you >have a loose connection here, stranges things can happen to the display. > >If the picture is also blurring and/or dim and/or unstable in size, you >might have a high voltage problem. Low high-voltage will cause the display >to *bloom*. > >>What is my best way to attack this problem? I have no other >>Cine games and I was using a switcher for my +5. > >I'd start by checking to see what's loose or shorting that's causing the >CPU's reset LED to flicker -- do this without the monitor plugged in. Then >I'd attack the monitor. > >Check to see that the game runs the demo fine without the control panel >plugged in, if this is the case, look for short/bad connections in the >control panel/wiring harness. > >Do the obvious things check and reseat the ROMs and ALUs and anything else >socketed. It maybe the LED flicker has nothing to do with the control >panel connector, it maybe a bad socket that's affected when that area of >the board is pressed. > > >-Zonn > Zonn- Thanks for the advice!!! I did all the obvious things - reseat ROMS, ect... and yes now the flickering stoped completely. But, I still only get one circle in the middle of the screen. I had assumed that I could get the screen size down to the correct size using the pots, but just as I was going to test that last night, my buddies convinced me to go play some pool... Even with the cp unplugged the game still only displays one circle. Any ideas? Thanks again, Mit Matelske From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 2 07:22:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 07:22:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Posted-Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 16:18:15 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971002092136.0097a550@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 09:21:38 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: Star Castle problems ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >The test pattern for Star Castle is one ring in the middle (not >rotating) and 4 small boxes - on in the middle of each side of the >screen. This pattern is for monitor/vector adjustment which it >sounds like you need to do :-) > >Your friend, >CREW :-) > >BTW, Clay & Bill. I can't buy anything right now. I've been thinking >about getting out of this whole hobby & selling my stuff (except Tempest). >Then again, I may not :-) >-- > ___ __ _ _ _ >| \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer >| _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? >|_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. > Well, I'll be damned!!! Don't I feel like a heel. Many thanks!!!! And as far as getting out of the hobby - DON'T do it. It is safer than sex and less expensive than drugs (at least for some of us) :) Mit Matelske From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 2 07:26:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 07:26:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Posted-Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 16:22:39 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971002092601.009816d0@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 09:26:02 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: Star Castle problems ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >Your friend, >CREW :-) > >BTW, Clay & Bill. I can't buy anything right now. I've been thinking >about getting out of this whole hobby & selling my stuff (except Tempest). >Then again, I may not :-) >-- > ___ __ _ _ _ >| \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer >| _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? >|_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. > Whoops!!! Can someone also provide me the switch settings? Doesn't seems to be on spies... Thanks, Mit From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 2 10:37:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 10:37:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Star Castle problems ... Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 17:39:29 GMT Message-ID: <3433d5a6.143078190@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3.0.32.19971002090239.0091b520@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971002090239.0091b520@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Thu, 02 Oct 1997 09:02:41 -0500, you wrote: >Thanks for the advice!!! I did all the obvious things - reseat ROMS, = ect... >and yes now the flickering stoped completely. But, I still only get one >circle in the middle of the screen. I had assumed that I could get the >screen size down to the correct size using the pots, but just as I was = going >to test that last night, my buddies convinced me to go play some pool... > >Even with the cp unplugged the game still only displays one circle. >Any ideas? Paul's hit upon the most obvious reason for displaying a single circle, = you probably got your dip switches set to "diagnostic mode" which displays nothing but a big circle and four small boxes at the edge of the screen. It's either switch 7 or switch 1 (depending on how they installed the dipswitches). If the switches make no difference, adjust the pots on the monitor to see if you can see the four boxes around the edges of the screen. If so you could have a problem with the dipswitches, or more likely the buffer used to read the dip switches. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 2 11:02:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 11:02:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Star Castle problems ... Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 18:04:35 GMT Message-ID: <3435e097.145880101@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3.0.32.19971002092601.009816d0@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971002092601.009816d0@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Thu, 02 Oct 1997 09:26:02 -0500, you wrote: >Whoops!!! > >Can someone also provide me the switch settings? Doesn't seems to be on >spies... > >Thanks, > >Mit If you download my emulator (http://www.concentric.net/~Zonn) you can = find the switch settings for each game documented in the .INI file for each game. Here's Star Castle's ('0' means 'switch off', Switch 7 is the leftmost switch): ; Switch definitions: ; ; D------ 0=3DTest Pattern, 1=3DNormal ; -XX---- Unused ; ; ---CC-- 00 =3D 1 credit per 1 quarter ; 10 =3D 1 credit per 2 quarters ; 01 =3D 3 credit per 2 quarters ; 11 =3D 3 credit per 4 quarters ; ; -----SS 00 =3D 3 ships per game ; 10 =3D 4 ships per game ; 01 =3D 5 ships per game ; 11 =3D 6 ships per game -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 2 12:51:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 12:51:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34340829.2AC3@willowtree.com> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 14:46:33 -0600 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega xy help References: <34314708.44E5@32767willowtree.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by hippocrates.willowtree.com id OAA20955 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com An update on my Space Fury, I found some more 2114's so I replaced all of them on the xy board & shuffled them around on the CPU board. Now it boots up fine, attract mode looks normal. After playing a few games on the scope, the only vector problem I have seen so far is that the 'ship' will get trashed, all other vectors are OK. When you get hit or go to the next level, the ship will look OK for a while, then get garbled up. It will also go all the way through the self test now, only that some speech & sounds are missing or garbage. Confident that the boards are now more stable, I hooked up the monitor so I could read what the self test was reporting. The monitor powered OK, I played a few quick games, intermittently the top half of the screen would go flat, so I quickly went to the self test, the first screen said that the video ram & multiplier were good, but down in the lower right corner there was a 'B', what does that stand for ? When I got to the system input screen, tells what dip SW settings are, the text was jumping around, some letters would displace up or down a line. By this time the top half of the screen was collapsing more often, so I powered it down, pulled out the deflection board.=20 After inspecting the board & the 2 daughter boards that go to the heatsink/transistor assembly, I saw a few cold solder joints. I wicked/reflowed all the Molex connectors, cleaned transistor sockets & reassembled. Still no top half of the screen :( I am going to order a Zanen kit, but wasn=92t there a discussion about him using underrated parts ? Knowing that the monitor is almost %100, I want to do what ever it takes to make it as reliable as possible. Is there a FAQ like G Woodcock=92s WG, but for the Sega monitors ? Any suggestions would help, I don=92t want to do any damage to this=20 monitor. --=20 Spam block, remove 32767's from e-mail address: Thanks Todd From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 2 13:43:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 13:43:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:42:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9710021542.ZM13050@calcite> In-Reply-To: Todd Miller "Re: Sega xy help" (Oct 2, 2:46pm) References: <34314708.44E5@32767willowtree.com> <199710021959.PAA02464@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega xy help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by calcite.cig.mot.com id PAA13052 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Oct 2, 2:46pm, Todd Miller wrote: > Subject: Re: Sega xy help > > [ text/plain > Encoded with "quoted-printable" ] : An update on my Space Fury, I found some more 2114's so I replaced > all of them on the xy board & shuffled them around on the CPU board. > Now it boots up fine, attract mode looks normal. After playing a > few games on the scope, the only vector problem I have seen so far > is that the 'ship' will get trashed, all other vectors are OK. When > you get hit or go to the next level, the ship will look OK for a while, > then get garbled up. It will also go all the way through the self test > now, only that some speech & sounds are missing or garbage. > > Confident that the > boards are now more stable, Doesn't sound like it ;-). Garbled speech is usually signs of bad EPROMs= on the speech board (check the sockets, etc), and the sound board for Space = Fury is notorious for dropping sounds over time. > I hooked up the monitor so I could read > what the self test was reporting. The monitor powered OK, I played a > few > quick games, intermittently the top half of the screen would go flat, > so I quickly went to the self test, the first screen said that the > video ram & multiplier were good, but down in the lower right corner > there was a 'B', what does that stand for ? Software revision B. > When I got to the system > input screen, tells what dip SW settings are, the text was jumping > around, some letters would displace up or down a line. This is common even with totally working systems. It's ok. > By this time > the top half of the screen was collapsing more often, so I powered it > down, pulled out the deflection board. So it sounds like one of your deflection transistors is giving out. > After inspecting the board & > the 2 daughter boards that go to the heatsink/transistor assembly, I sa= w > a few cold solder joints. I wicked/reflowed all the Molex connectors, > cleaned transistor sockets & reassembled. Still no top half of the > screen :( I am going to order a Zanen kit, but wasn=92t there a > discussion > about him using underrated parts ? Knowing that the monitor is almost > %100, I want to do what ever it takes to make it as reliable as > possible. Zanen has a cap kit for the G08?? They didn't have one last time I order= ed. You're not confusing the G05-802 are you? > Is there a FAQ like G Woodcock=92s WG, but for the Sega monitors ? > Any suggestions would help, I don=92t want to do any damage to this > monitor. Not really. David Shuman one of the experts on this monitor. Also, I ha= ve a few notes about it in my Sega XY FAQ that you could look at, which also t= alks about replacements for the deflection transistors. BTW, How's those Sega XY Multigames going out there??? I've heard of two different people that have implemented it two different ways already. Also, could one of you techy people out there figure out how to bypass th= e coining timing circuit? It's a pain to try and credit by hand because of= the coin input timing. ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 2 14:08:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 14:08:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199710022107.QAA22381@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: <9710021542.ZM13050@calcite> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Thu, 2 Oct 97 16:07:18 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega xy help References: <34314708.44E5@32767willowtree.com> <199710021959.PAA02464@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9710021542.ZM13050@calcite> Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You wrote: > Also, could one of you techy people out there figure out how to bypass the > coining timing circuit? It's a pain to try and credit by hand because of the > coin input timing. This was a feature request for the adapter PCB, right? Basically a pulse output triggered by the coin input. Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 2 14:49:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 14:49:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 14:50:38 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Sega xy help Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >BTW, How's those Sega XY Multigames going out there??? I've heard of two >different people that have implemented it two different ways already. Mine is currently a single daughtercard that connects to the Z-80 socket on the CPU board. You need to install a "jumper" board in the socket where the security chip normally goes, and you replace the memory-mapper PROM. At that point you can get rid of the EPROM board entirely. Game selection works just fine by dip switches, but the "real" version is planned as a software menu-system. I have a "sneaky" memory mapper circuit made up out of a couple of PALs that allows selection of 4K-48K "chunks" of memory to be enabled. (So 1 64K EPROM can hold a 48K game, plus an 8K game, plus two 4K games for example. Mainly of interest if anyone wants write some new games for the G-80.) The PALs are kind-of a pain for me to develop right now (since I'm using GALs and the only programmer for those is at work), so I might just make an "easy" version that just bank selects 64K blocks. (And I'll pretend I don't notice all the wasted EPROM space. Must... Resist... ;-) I moved a Pentium machine with a PROMice on it out to the garage and have a G-80 setup to develop software now, (that's how I did the Astro Blaster hacks) so I'm kinda out of excuses for not getting back on it. :-) I do want to give it a try with MAME on the PC though, so I don't have to code in the garage... I did a title-screen for the Multigame a while back and got sidetracked making a "starfield" backdrop for it instead of implementing the bank-selecting code... Whoops. No great ideas (from me) for how to handle all the sound stuff. Control mapping is done by a PIC on another little card, but I don't really know how to connect it to the CPU board yet. A whole bunch of .156" connectors just seems like a royal pain... -Clay P.S. Keep your fingers crossed for me-- we *might* be getting one of those all-in-one prototype PCB makers here. That will REALLY speed up getting these projects done! ;-) (You just give it a gerber file of your finished printed circuit board and an hour or two later you get a two-layer drilled and routed PCB out the other side.) Please, oh, please, oh, please.... ;-) Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 2 15:02:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:02:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <343426DC.3DA3@willowtree.com> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 16:57:32 -0600 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega xy help References: <199709301532.LAA24466@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9709301051.ZM19106@calcite> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Mark Jenison wrote: > > Here's my standard offer: > > If you want, you can send me the entire boardset after your tested/verified the > EPROMs. I will test each board separately in my known working set up. For > every board that needs repaired or replaced, I will charge a flat fee of $10 > per board. That means you'd have to pay a maximum of $50 + S&H (in the > unlikely event that all boards minus the EPROM board were bad), and a minimum > of $10 + S&H. For this you will have a completely reliable Space Fury set. > Hi Mark, Thanks for the help, I'm plugging along. Do you have files for the Eproms for SF ? I was confirming checksums with my Eproms & a file I got from Ian's web page...none of them matched, so maybe his isn't rev 'B', or maybe I'm not using my data i/o right. Anyway.. what would you sell the individual boards outright ? Your $10 offer is good, but I kinda want to keep the old one's around for spares, then use good board's so I can determain what I have may be bad. LMK -- Spam block, remove 32767's from e-mail address: Thanks Todd From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 2 15:13:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:13:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega xy help Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 22:14:57 GMT Message-ID: <34351ca1.161252591@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Thu, 2 Oct 1997 14:50:38 -0800, you wrote: >P.S. Keep your fingers crossed for me-- we *might* be getting one of = those >all-in-one prototype PCB makers here. That will REALLY speed up getting >these projects done! ;-) (You just give it a gerber file of your = finished >printed circuit board and an hour or two later you get a two-layer = drilled >and routed PCB out the other side.) Please, oh, please, oh, please.... = ;-) I'm beyond envious.... -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 06:26:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 06:26:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:25:45 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Transistor Number Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Vector Posse, Does anybody happen to know the part numbers for the Cine. deflection transistors off hand? My Rip Off lost the bottom half of the screen last night (During a GREAT game we were having, too) and I forgot my manual at home. I will be really mad at myself, if, because of my own stupidity, I can't fix my Rip Off tonight... Thanks, Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 06:45:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 06:45:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199710031345.JAA09799@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Sega xy help To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 09:45:57 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <34351ca1.161252591@tommy.doctord.com> from "Zonn" at Oct 2, 97 10:14:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >P.S. Keep your fingers crossed for me-- we *might* be getting one of = > those > >all-in-one prototype PCB makers here. That will REALLY speed up getting > >these projects done! ;-) (You just give it a gerber file of your = > finished > >printed circuit board and an hour or two later you get a two-layer = > drilled > >and routed PCB out the other side.) Please, oh, please, oh, please.... = > ;-) > > I'm beyond envious.... You and me both :-) Hmmm... What employer in the Detroit area is likely to have cool EE toys... HAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahaha Yah Right! well, maybe 1 or 2. -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 07:57:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 07:56:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <34350918.54BA@an.hp.com> Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 11:02:48 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: 19VLTP22 tubes References: <34351ca1.161252591@tommy.doctord.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hello fellow vectorheads, My amplifone tube says that it's a 19VLTP22 / M48AAWOOX. Based on Gregg Woodcock's findings, this tube is compatible with the 19VLUP22 used in the Wells Gardner vector monitors. According to my Amplifone schematics, a 19VJTP22 tube is used. (note the "J" instead of the "L") Some DejaNews searching revealed that this tube also has the same pinout as the VLT and the VLU tubes. My question is, which tube has the higher resolution, the VLT or the VJT? I just ordered a brand new 19VLT22 from Richardson Electronics. They claim that their manufacturer says "this is THE last one they will be able to make." Apparently, their manufacturer is no longer producing this particular glass shape and there are no more available. At any rate, I haven't investigated the availability of the VJT's, but I'd like to know if it's even worth pursuing. I was looking to retrofit every vector monitor I owned with one of these Amplifone tubes, that's about 8 more monitors. I hooked up the Amplifone to my Tempest last weekend, and it worked beautifully. I cobbled this monitor together from a mass of 4 HV and 4 deflection units in unknown but dubious condition. I got lucky. The first HV unit I tried started smoking .. but the second one worked! (They are all original red ones ... ) At any rate, I now know that I have 3 fully working deflection boards, and 1 working HV unit. A Wintron unit is on it's way, so that will make HV unit number 2 happy. I didn't even test HV 3 and 4 because one was missing Q4, and the other was missing the anode clip. I figured there must be "something" wrong with them, so until I have a few moments to work on them, I didn't even bother fixing the obvious and just trying them. Anyway, the picture was just so amazing .. I highly recommend retrofitting this tube into your Wells Gardners. I realize that Tempest looking "better" is a subjective term, but I really do think you should try it once! If you have any information on the dot pitch of the VJT vs the VLT, please let me know! Thanks, Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 08:51:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:51:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 03 Oct 1997 11:49 EDT To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Cc: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Mark Shostak" Subject: Starfields (was: Sega xy help) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In message "Sega xy help", clay@supra.com writes: > I did a title-screen for the Multigame a while back and got sidetracked > making a "starfield" backdrop for it instead of implementing the > bank-selecting code... Whoops. Mr. Cowgill, This is to inform you that we hope *your* starfield isn't based on any particular pattern. We've had some um, trouble with starfields in the past. -The Management From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 09:30:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 09:30:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Posted-Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 09:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971003112914.0091aaf0@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 11:29:15 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: Star Castle problems ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Thanks to all!!! After adjusting *every* pot on that monitor, I have a decent looking Star Castle game. One question - the background noise is just static - and I'm not talking about good static. The explosions sound great, but this constant noise... It's been a while since I played the game and was wondering what the background sounds (music? - just kidding) are suupose to be, and how to diagnose and fix the sound board. Thanks again, Mit From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 09:42:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 09:42:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 11:41:43 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Star Castle problems ... In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971003112914.0091aaf0@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Fri, 3 Oct 1997, Mit Matelske wrote: > > > Thanks to all!!! > > After adjusting *every* pot on that monitor, I have a decent looking > Star Castle game. One question - the background noise is just > static - and I'm not talking about good static. The explosions > sound great, but this constant noise... > It's been a while since I played the game and was wondering what > the background sounds (music? - just kidding) are suupose to > be, and how to diagnose and fix the sound board. The background sound should be a pulsing tone that gets faster pulsing as you shoot more and more segments out of the Star Castle. The Manual has an awesome section on how to diagnose the Sound board. If you don't have a copy, check on wiretap, but I'm not sure its there. Send me an email if you need a copy. Folow the procedure in the manual, but the background noise is generated by a cheesy DAC, a level shifter and limiter, and a VCO. First thing I would check is the VCO (an LM566 -- National has the datasheet on their web page) if you are getting static. You should get a nice low-frequency square wave out of there (use a scope to check.) Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 09:45:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 09:45:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Transistor Number Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 16:47:28 GMT Message-ID: <34352047.227732577@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:25:45 -0500 (CDT), you wrote: > >Vector Posse, > > Does anybody happen to know the part numbers for the Cine. >deflection transistors off hand? My Rip Off lost the bottom half >of the screen last night (During a GREAT game we were having, too) >and I forgot my manual at home. > > I will be really mad at myself, if, because of my own >stupidity, I can't fix my Rip Off tonight... > >Thanks, Hey Joe, Keep in mind that Al has scans of all the schematics on www.spies.com but to save you the trouble: 2N5878 - NPN 2N5876 - PNP Also, the pair of transistors used in the deflection of the WG monitors = are a slightly better replacement (same gain, a bit higher voltage rating, though not worth going out and retrofiting all your Cine'monitors). If = you have an old Zannen WG kit laying around you could use those. Don't mix = and match, use either the Cine' pair or the WG pair. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 12:14:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 12:14:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199710031914.PAA26611@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Star Castle problems ... To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:14:23 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971003112914.0091aaf0@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> from "Mit Matelske" at Oct 3, 97 11:29:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > Star Castle game. One question - the background noise is just > static - and I'm not talking about good static. The explosions > sound great, but this constant noise... > > It's been a while since I played the game and was wondering what > the background sounds (music? - just kidding) are suupose to > be, and how to diagnose and fix the sound board. The background sound is supposed to be a "droning" sound. A tone that rises and falls in pitch all the while. The pitch change increases in speed as the game proceeds. This should not sound anything like "static". It could get really anoying though if it's stuck at a particular pitch. For the curious, the droning circuit is a 3-bit D/A converter feeding an RC circuit (aprox 10 sec settling time) which feeds a VCO to generate the tone. But the details escape me :-) I'll try to check the manual over the weekend & see what might be broken. BTW, what ever happened to the sound generating/digitizing effort? I had to synthesize some cheap Star Castle sounds myself. -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 12:43:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 12:43:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199710031942.OAA26358@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Fri, 3 Oct 97 14:42:25 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Starfields (was: Sega xy help) References: Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You wrote: > This is to inform you that we hope *your* starfield isn't based on > any particular pattern. We've had some um, trouble with starfields > in the past. We've all heard this story before, but even if I squint *real* hard, I don't see anything on my Star Castle. Is this an urban legend? Ray NB I think it would be criminal for Clay not to have an easter egg in his starfield ;-) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 13:00:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 13:00:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Starfields (was: Sega xy help) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 20:03:09 GMT Message-ID: <34354cef.9127115@tommy.doctord.com> References: <199710031942.OAA26358@fermat.mayo.edu> In-Reply-To: <199710031942.OAA26358@fermat.mayo.edu> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Fri, 3 Oct 97 14:42:25 -0500, you wrote: >You wrote: >> This is to inform you that we hope *your* starfield isn't based on >> any particular pattern. We've had some um, trouble with starfields >> in the past. > >We've all heard this story before, but even if I squint *real* hard, I = don't =20 >see anything on my Star Castle. Is this an urban legend? > No, it's real. I talked to a guy that worked at Cinematronics and he = said the management was so upset they thought of stopping production. Then some guy said essentially "Even if I squint *real* hard, I don't see anything" and common sense prevailed. I've been told that once you've seen the picture, it's hard not to think = of it when you see the starfield. So does anyone have a collection of "Oui" magazines from 1980 ('81?)? I imagine that *even* the NET is not big enough to find those pictures in that sewage of porn out there... -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 13:17:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 13:17:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 03 Oct 1997 16:15 EDT To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Gregg Woodcock" Subject: Re: Starfields (was: Sega xy help) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In message "Re: Starfields (was: Sega xy help)", you write: >You wrote: >> This is to inform you that we hope *your* starfield isn't based on >> any particular pattern. We've had some um, trouble with starfields >> in the past. > >We've all heard this story before, I haven't... >NB I think it would be criminal for Clay not to have an easter egg in his >starfield ;-) Don't worry; I'm positive he will. BTW, as far as the Amplifone tubes in a W-G monitor goes; I have been running a SW/ESB 24/7 on location since I posted that about 6 months ago with *NO* problems (and a FANTASTIC picture). -- THANX...Gregg day 972.684.7380 night UNLIST/PUBL TEXAS NOT CANADA! woodcock@nortel.com or woodcock@dfwmm.net *CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)* "If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 14:03:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:03:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199710032102.QAA29845@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: <34354cef.9127115@tommy.doctord.com> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Fri, 3 Oct 97 16:02:48 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Starfields (was: Sega xy help) References: <199710031942.OAA26358@fermat.mayo.edu> <34354cef.9127115@tommy.doctord.com> Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You wrote: > So does anyone have a collection of "Oui" magazines from 1980 ('81?)? > > I imagine that *even* the NET is not big enough to find those pictures in > that sewage of porn out there... Tracking this down could be the first ever (and only?) legitimate cross post in RGVAC and rec.porn (or whatever ;-) That being said, I would love to see this picture (as a collector, of course... ;-) Question: how long until someone hacked the Star Castle ROMs to actually connect the dots? Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 14:14:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:14:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199710032114.RAA29705@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Starfields (was: Sega xy help) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:14:44 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <34354cef.9127115@tommy.doctord.com> from "Zonn" at Oct 3, 97 08:03:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >You wrote: > >> This is to inform you that we hope *your* starfield isn't based on > >> any particular pattern. We've had some um, trouble with starfields > >> in the past. > > > >We've all heard this story before, but even if I squint *real* hard, I = > don't =20 > >see anything on my Star Castle. Is this an urban legend? > > I told my wife there was something in the constellation and she just couldn't see it. Then I said "it's a woman" & she said "Oh my gosh it is". She also said something about the small triangle... > So does anyone have a collection of "Oui" magazines from 1980 ('81?)? > > I imagine that *even* the NET is not big enough to find those pictures in > that sewage of porn out there... I'd like to see it too. Scott said she has her foot up on a flowerpot or something. I think he rather likes telling the story, but I didn't think to ask him why he had OUI handy at work that day ;-) Oh well, back to creating the background for the company web site - Oh, look I've got a copy of Big 'Uns here in my desk, I think I'll put in some eye candy for observant web surfers... -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 14:38:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:38:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Starfields (was: Sega xy help) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 21:40:33 GMT Message-ID: <34366172.14378917@tommy.doctord.com> References: <199710031942.OAA26358@fermat.mayo.edu> <34354cef.9127115@tommy.doctord.com> <199710032102.QAA29845@fermat.mayo.edu> In-Reply-To: <199710032102.QAA29845@fermat.mayo.edu> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Fri, 3 Oct 97 16:02:48 -0500, you wrote: >You wrote: >> So does anyone have a collection of "Oui" magazines from 1980 ('81?)? >> >> I imagine that *even* the NET is not big enough to find those pictures= in >> that sewage of porn out there... > >Tracking this down could be the first ever (and only?) legitimate cross = post =20 >in RGVAC and rec.porn (or whatever ;-) > >That being said, I would love to see this picture (as a collector, of = course... ;-)=20 Yeah, I've already gone to all the engineers here and asked them if they have a 1980-1981 Oui collection (It was either '80 or '81 and I don't = know the month). Oh maybe I'll get fired, I'm already on probation for spamming the = intranet email with pro alien (the kind from other planets) propaganda (I claimed 'we' invented Silly Putty and Pringles and 'they're' stupid enough to buy them), that and I'm trying to convince the front office lady that I'm = Elvis incarnate. I think using the companies internet connection to search for porn might = be pushing things a little... Like they're going to find another hardware/software guru to finish this project (where I'm the solo engineer!) that's due the end of next week, right! I've got at least 14 days of absolute job security!! ...so what would that be under... alt.porn.pictures.eighties.oui.arcades, search on "Star Castle"? -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 14:47:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:47:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:48:47 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Starfields (was: Sega xy help) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >>NB I think it would be criminal for Clay not to have an easter egg in his >>starfield ;-) > >Don't worry; I'm positive he will. Yep, time to dust off Superpaint on the Mac again... ;-) (It lets you have a bitmap on one layer and an object-oriented drawing object layer on top of that... Perfect for, uhhh, vector-digitizing.) On a loosely (very loosely) related subject-- seems like about 10 or so years back Scientific American had an article on a little algorithm called "face bender" or something like that. You gave it a vector characterization of a person's face and it would build a caricature based on the vector dataset and a "difference" factor. Kind-of morphing without a texture map I'd say. Anyway, it'd be a kinda cool real-time effect for a vector display that had enough CPU oomph to pull it off. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 14:54:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:54:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:55:17 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: programmable logic Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com While I'm thinking of it... Have any of you used the Lattice GAL6001 FPLA for anything? It's a "78x64x36" FPLA with all sorts of buried feedback terms and whatnot for making state machines. Some nice features: 1) available from JDR for $8 in singles, and electrically erasable/programmable 2) should be supported by Lattice ISP Synario for free/cheap programming tools 3) 24 pin DIP package. 10 inputs on one side, 10 I/O's on the other. I don't really have an application in mind (other than maybe some part in a vector state machine), but I'd be curious to hear if any of you have played with it... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 15:01:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:01:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:02:14 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Starfields (was: Sega xy help) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >...so what would that be under... alt.porn.pictures.eighties.oui.arcades, >search on "Star Castle"? *scrounge* *scrounge*... Well, there's a hit from Altavista on "+OUI +magazine". www.webworksps.com/raven/oui.htm Looks like it just might be someone that posed once upon a time... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 15:05:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:04:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Posted-Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 18:04:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971003170413.0097dcc0@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 17:04:15 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: Star Castle problems ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 11:41 AM 10/3/97 -0500, you wrote: > >On Fri, 3 Oct 1997, Mit Matelske wrote: > >> >> >> Thanks to all!!! >> >> After adjusting *every* pot on that monitor, I have a decent looking >> Star Castle game. One question - the background noise is just >> static - and I'm not talking about good static. The explosions >> sound great, but this constant noise... > > >> It's been a while since I played the game and was wondering what >> the background sounds (music? - just kidding) are suupose to >> be, and how to diagnose and fix the sound board. > > The background sound should be a pulsing tone that gets faster >pulsing as you shoot more and more segments out of the Star Castle. > > The Manual has an awesome section on how to diagnose the Sound >board. If you don't have a copy, check on wiretap, but I'm not sure its >there. Send me an email if you need a copy. > > Folow the procedure in the manual, but the background noise is >generated by a cheesy DAC, a level shifter and limiter, and a VCO. First >thing I would check is the VCO (an LM566 -- National has the datasheet on >their web page) if you are getting static. You should get a nice >low-frequency square wave out of there (use a scope to check.) > >Joe > > Joe- Could you email me that sound board diagnostic stuff... Checked on spies and could only find schematics. Thanks, Mit From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 15:13:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:13:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: programmable logic Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 22:15:51 GMT Message-ID: <34386aae.16743899@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:55:17 -0800, you wrote: >While I'm thinking of it... > >Have any of you used the Lattice GAL6001 FPLA for anything? > >It's a "78x64x36" FPLA with all sorts of buried feedback terms and = whatnot >for making state machines. > >Some nice features: > >1) available from JDR for $8 in singles, and electrically = erasable/programmable > >2) should be supported by Lattice ISP Synario for free/cheap programming= tools > >3) 24 pin DIP package. 10 inputs on one side, 10 I/O's on the other. > >I don't really have an application in mind (other than maybe some part = in a >vector state machine), but I'd be curious to hear if any of you have = played >with it... I was just getting ready to spam vectorlist in search of interesting = logic arrays. I have a very nice vector generator design that's fully digital that uses 3 10 bit latches, an adder, a 10 bit 2 channel mux, and 2 ten = bit counters connected to the DACs. It very simple, but unfortunately I = can't find any commonly available micros the run fast enough to do this in software. You need to update the DAC counters on a digital vector generator at a 3.33mhz (avg) to generate the vectors. A 20mhz PIC internally divides the clock by four, so it runs at a 5mhz speed. Too slow. The new SX 50mhz part that runs at 50mhz (no internal divide by 4) could do it (well the counters would still have to be = external because of the number of I/O lines available, *and* it's still not fast enough to handle the counters), but are they available yet? And can it = be programmed using a standard PIC programmer? WSI makes a *very* fast processor that runs at 100mhz - at one clock per instruction, and can do multiple things on each clock, but of coarse = no-one sells the processor but WSI (they're only interested in quantity orders), and you have to buy their custom hardware to program it. How is the GAL6001 programmed? Must you buy a custom programmer from Lattice? (I've never had need to play with PALs, GALs, just an FPLA many years ago, and then just as an address decoder) -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 17:14:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:14:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:15:31 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: programmable logic Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >I was just getting ready to spam vectorlist in search of interesting logic >arrays. I have a very nice vector generator design that's fully digital >that uses 3 10 bit latches, an adder, a 10 bit 2 channel mux, and 2 ten bit >counters connected to the DACs. It very simple, but unfortunately I can't >find any commonly available micros the run fast enough to do this in >software. You need to update the DAC counters on a digital vector >generator at a 3.33mhz (avg) to generate the vectors. Ahhh. We're looking at the same thing. You ran into the same "gotcha" that I did-- need speed for digital vector generator. Plus it seems silly (not to mention tedious to prototype) a small army of TTL logic... :-/ >A 20mhz PIC internally divides the clock by four, so it runs at a 5mhz >speed. Too slow. Right, this is why I went to an Analog Vector Generator like Atari did. Another way (that Atari also did, but never made it out the door) is to use a DSP with a couple serial DACs. The Analog Devices 2105 is cheap and friendly to program... >The new SX 50mhz part that runs at 50mhz (no internal >divide by 4) could do it (well the counters would still have to be external >because of the number of I/O lines available, *and* it's still not fast >enough to handle the counters), but are they available yet? And can it be >programmed using a standard PIC programmer? Supposedly they're sampling now (October) and full production in Q4. Programming doesn't look to be by a "standard" PIC programmer (like a PICMaster or something). Parallax however is offering a programmer/ICE for $249. That's pretty cool assuming it's a full speed ICE for that price. You *can* get away with overclocking PICs quite a lot. I've heard that 32MHz on the 20MHz parts is pretty solid, but that 40MHz is a little twitchy. >WSI makes a *very* fast processor that runs at 100mhz - at one clock per >instruction, and can do multiple things on each clock, but of coarse no-one >sells the processor but WSI (they're only interested in quantity orders), >and you have to buy their custom hardware to program it. Word has it that Western Design Center (the guys that own the IP for the 6502) have a fully synthesizable 6502 core in VHDL and Verilog. Depending on the process it's been run at up to 173MHz... :-) >How is the GAL6001 programmed? Must you buy a custom programmer from >Lattice? (I've never had need to play with PALs, GALs, just an FPLA many >years ago, and then just as an address decoder) I'm trying to figure that out. :-/ Lattice is big on their ISP (in circuit programmable) stuff, which is just a cable going from a few pins on a PC parallel port to a header on your board. You can program all their GALs, Generic Digital Switches, and FPGA's from the same 5-wire bus. Pretty slick. I'm not so sure about the 6001 and 6002 though. Might take a stand-alone programmer. :-/ I suppose you could always just use a 2032 or something with the ISP cable, but I've never seen them available in singles for cheap. (like JDR) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 3 18:35:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 18:35:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: programmable logic Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 01:37:32 GMT Message-ID: <343597fe.336377@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:15:31 -0800, you wrote: > >>I was just getting ready to spam vectorlist in search of interesting = logic >>arrays. I have a very nice vector generator design that's fully = digital >>that uses 3 10 bit latches, an adder, a 10 bit 2 channel mux, and 2 ten= bit >>counters connected to the DACs. It very simple, but unfortunately I = can't >>find any commonly available micros the run fast enough to do this in >>software. You need to update the DAC counters on a digital vector >>generator at a 3.33mhz (avg) to generate the vectors. > >Ahhh. We're looking at the same thing. You ran into the same "gotcha" >that I did-- need speed for digital vector generator. Plus it seems = silly >(not to mention tedious to prototype) a small army of TTL logic... :-/ > >>A 20mhz PIC internally divides the clock by four, so it runs at a 5mhz >>speed. Too slow. > >Right, this is why I went to an Analog Vector Generator like Atari did. >Another way (that Atari also did, but never made it out the door) is to >use a DSP with a couple serial DACs. The Analog Devices 2105 is cheap = and >friendly to program... The problem I have with going with the AVG design are the integrators themselves. They can only zero'd, and not preset to any random value. This makes it hard to emulate the Sega, Cinematronics and old Atari DVG systems. If I were to go with an analog design, I'd be tempted to use = the Cinematronics design. It gets around a lot of the problems of the integrator. I like the digital design for a couple of reasons: 1) You never have to worry about lines meeting up. All the analog = designs use critically time vector lengths to line up correctly, and they never really line up exactly. 2) This might be over kill, but by using somewhere between 2 and 4 meg of ROM (or possibly RAM) as table lookups between the counters and the DACs, you can do all the pincussioning and linearity control digitally. So = it's a lot of ROM, but ROMs are not *that* expensive, and it's not like I'm going into high quantity production. And once again it allows you to set the *excact* pincussioning and linearity needed by the monitor, no drifting, ever. My design differs a bit from the Atari DVG and the Sega (though I haven't fully deciphered the Sega) in that I've designed the Bresenham's = algorithm into some really simple hardware. The catch is that register values must = be pre-calculated by the PC, an option Atari and Sega didn't have. (Since they were both background VGs and didn't have there own processor, to = speak of.) I control the line draw speed on a clock by clock basis to assure = all angles are drawn at the same speed. The TTL design looks very workable = but uses something like 20 ICs! (Why are all TTL devices only 4 bits!) Most video cards with built in line draw use the bresenham algorithm, = since there is no rounding error regardless of the line line, unlike the = clocking method used by Atari (though it's pretty miniscule). >>The new SX 50mhz part that runs at 50mhz (no internal >>divide by 4) could do it (well the counters would still have to be = external >>because of the number of I/O lines available, *and* it's still not fast >>enough to handle the counters), but are they available yet? And can it= be >>programmed using a standard PIC programmer? > >Supposedly they're sampling now (October) and full production in Q4. >Programming doesn't look to be by a "standard" PIC programmer (like a >PICMaster or something). Parallax however is offering a programmer/ICE = for >$249. That's pretty cool assuming it's a full speed ICE for that price. > >You *can* get away with overclocking PICs quite a lot. I've heard that >32MHz on the 20MHz parts is pretty solid, but that 40MHz is a little >twitchy. Even if you overclock the PICs they still divide by four. To run a PIC = at the speed of the SX part (when programmed to the no divide mode) you = would have to run them at 200mhz! >>WSI makes a *very* fast processor that runs at 100mhz - at one clock = per >>instruction, and can do multiple things on each clock, but of coarse = no-one >>sells the processor but WSI (they're only interested in quantity = orders), >>and you have to buy their custom hardware to program it. > >Word has it that Western Design Center (the guys that own the IP for the >6502) have a fully synthesizable 6502 core in VHDL and Verilog. = Depending >on the process it's been run at up to 173MHz... :-) Wow! >>How is the GAL6001 programmed? Must you buy a custom programmer from >>Lattice? (I've never had need to play with PALs, GALs, just an FPLA = many >>years ago, and then just as an address decoder) > >I'm trying to figure that out. :-/ Lattice is big on their ISP (in = circuit >programmable) stuff, which is just a cable going from a few pins on a PC >parallel port to a header on your board. You can program all their = GALs, >Generic Digital Switches, and FPGA's from the same 5-wire bus. Pretty >slick. I'm not so sure about the 6001 and 6002 though. Might take a >stand-alone programmer. :-/ I suppose you could always just use a 2032 = or >something with the ISP cable, but I've never seen them available in = singles >for cheap. (like JDR) I went to there home page and have been looking at the isp parts. I'm wondering if you could program one of these to do the whole VG and eliminate any processor (Since my ZIP drive claims a 20mb transfer rate through the paralled port, I'm assuming I can talk to the VG at the 800k rate I believe I'm going to need. To bad, I wanted to use the serial port...) The parts are expensive, but if it was nearly the whole design it = wouldn't be so bad. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Oct 5 17:12:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 17:11:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 17:12:45 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: programmable logic Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >The problem I have with going with the AVG design are the integrators >themselves. They can only zero'd, and not preset to any random value. >This makes it hard to emulate the Sega, Cinematronics and old Atari DVG >systems. If I were to go with an analog design, I'd be tempted to use the >Cinematronics design. It gets around a lot of the problems of the >integrator. True, but remember the trick about the slew rates on the WG and Amplifone color monitors... That Atari method of needing to zero the integrators to get to the center point kinda forces you to return to the center of the screen, so you tend not to have the big delta's of a parallel load (like Sega) which the WG and Amplifones can't keep up with. You can get around it by ordering your display list carefully though... >I like the digital design for a couple of reasons: > >1) You never have to worry about lines meeting up. All the analog designs >use critically time vector lengths to line up correctly, and they never >really line up exactly. Yup, although I think Atari's AVG is pretty good. The Vectrex (by contrast) is pretty bad, but it's going from an 8-bit DAC though too... >2) This might be over kill, but by using somewhere between 2 and 4 meg of >ROM (or possibly RAM) as table lookups between the counters and the DACs, >you can do all the pincussioning and linearity control digitally. So it's >a lot of ROM, but ROMs are not *that* expensive, and it's not like I'm >going into high quantity production. And once again it allows you to set >the *excact* pincussioning and linearity needed by the monitor, no >drifting, ever. That would be cool. I decided to cut the size of the Sega Multigame PCB and just use a single 27C040. It's only $6 from JDR... No worth the boardspace and decode logic to support '010's and '020's... >My design differs a bit from the Atari DVG and the Sega (though I haven't >fully deciphered the Sega) in that I've designed the Bresenham's algorithm >into some really simple hardware. The catch is that register values must be >pre-calculated by the PC, an option Atari and Sega didn't have. (Since >they were both background VGs and didn't have there own processor, to speak >of.) I control the line draw speed on a clock by clock basis to assure all >angles are drawn at the same speed. The TTL design looks very workable but >uses something like 20 ICs! (Why are all TTL devices only 4 bits!) That's pretty cool. You know, the TI 34010 graphics processor had some hardware instructions that made Bresenham's a snap. It was damn fast too-- plus dual-port DRAM control... Too bad it's obsoleted. :-( >Most video cards with built in line draw use the bresenham algorithm, since >there is no rounding error regardless of the line line, unlike the clocking >method used by Atari (though it's pretty miniscule). Yeah, still though, even with 10bits of D/A I think even the slight errors in Atari's method is probably pretty small compared to what can be resolved on the display. >Even if you overclock the PICs they still divide by four. To run a PIC at >the speed of the SX part (when programmed to the no divide mode) you would >have to run them at 200mhz! True. I dunno what kinda MIPS you're after. [ISP] >I went to there home page and have been looking at the isp parts. I'm >wondering if you could program one of these to do the whole VG and >eliminate any processor (Since my ZIP drive claims a 20mb transfer rate >through the paralled port, I'm assuming I can talk to the VG at the 800k >rate I believe I'm going to need. To bad, I wanted to use the serial >port...) Guts-iest move I ever saw, Mav. :-) Are you planning on using the ECP or EPP (or whatever the hell they're called) modes? I always thought that the "stock" parallel port was limited to around 100-150Kbytes/sec. (Maybe that was with an older processor driving it though...) I decided to use an auto-incrementing counter into my VRAM array for loading memory off the ISA bus. Just like the Super Nintendo. :-) (/WR auto-increments the memory pointer to the next address in VRAM.) >The parts are expensive, but if it was nearly the whole design it wouldn't >be so bad. You can get 2032's and 1016's pretty cheap in quantity, but I think the onesy-twosy stuff if steeper. The only time I was looking at them was to redo the Tempest vector generator in a single device. The main problem was the number of IO's. There was plenty of gates on even really small devices, but I ran out of I/O pins. :-/ Then again, I was trying to accomodate the 12 bit datapaths for the SRAMs still. You don't want to integrate SRAM cells in the FPGA. Eats WAY too much space. :-) As an aside, Cypress (I think it's Cypress) makes some 8-bit counters with preset and clear. (Kind-of a 74193 on steroids.) Might be hard to just buy off the shelf though. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Oct 5 17:35:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 17:35:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: programmable logic To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:44:18 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: from "Clay Cowgill" at Oct 5, 97 05:12:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <343842720.4912@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 946 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > That's pretty cool. You know, the TI 34010 graphics processor had some > hardware instructions that made Bresenham's a snap. It was damn fast too-- > plus dual-port DRAM control... Too bad it's obsoleted. :-( Well, sort of.. Last time I checked you can still buy the chip, you just can't get any tech support, etc.. (and they aren't fixing any of the bugs).. Last time I checked Wms was still using it.. (yes, I wrote a lot of 34010 asm.. :) The chip wasn't THAT fast though. The only place that the chip's graphics instructions were used (as I remember) was in the diagnostics.. But it sure had a lot of other cool features.. Check out the interrupts as they're tied to the screen subsystem.. Kurt /* * This version of Kurt Mahan is currently being evaluated. Words he speaks * are those of him only and not those of Novell or anybody else. * * Novell Java Technologies R&D Group * * Kurt Mahan * kmahan@novell.com */ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 08:23:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 08:22:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:22:06 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: TECH: Amplifone Q's Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com It was my first weekend in my new house (that I wasn't moving stuff in) so I was able to fix/try to fix a few games. The good news: My Star Wars now works perfectly (..and there was much rejoycing...yea, yea) The bad news: The Amplifone in my Quantum is really sick. I replaced the following on the HV board: HV transformer, BU406D, 7824, 7924, electrolytic caps. I still get NO HV whatsoever. The deflection board seems good (I can hear clatter in the neck, AND the spot killer seems to be operating normally -- a little pulse when the game gets turned on, but then it goes off) The wierd part of it all is that the tube NEVER sparks, crackles, etc when I discharge it to disconnect the HV connection. It never sparks when I discharge it to re-connect the HV connection. In every monitor I've worked on, I've always been able to get some kind of spark/snap/whatever when I went to discharge it (even when it had just been sitting there, with the HV connection disconnected for a while....There also NO glow from the back of the neck (I even looked for thse sparks and glow at night.) Does this sound like a bad tube? There is no high-pitched whine from the HV transformer but there isn't from the WG HV transformers either, so I don't know if that is normal or not. I haven't checked voltages on the HV board yet (Remember, it was night time, and poking around on a HV board in the dark, while the monitor is on, is not my idea of a good time!) but will do that today. Any help would be appreciated...Thanks in advance! Joe BTW: Has anybody tried using the NTE cross for the SK part that is listed on Jess's page as a replacement for the HV diode in the GO-5? I don't think there is a place in town that sells SK parts, and I'd rather not mail order (I want my diode now, NOW!) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 08:43:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 08:43:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:42:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: TECH: Amplifone Q's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Mon, 6 Oct 1997 jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote: > BTW: Has anybody tried using the NTE cross for the SK part that is > listed on Jess's page as a replacement for the HV diode in the GO-5? > I don't think there is a place in town that sells SK parts, and I'd > rather not mail order (I want my diode now, NOW!) As the person who found the crosses in the first place: While I used the SK part and haven't used the NTE: 1) NTE's web site brings up 527A when searching on either SK7333 OR H1812 (the original part in the Electrohome) 2) The part I actually used was an RCA SK series. It came from RCA in a sealed back, RCA logo on it, and the bag had both SK7333 and 527A on it. So while nothing is life is certain, I would say it's a good bet it will work. Just be sure you insulate it sufficently ! ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 08:46:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 08:46:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Posted-Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 08:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971006104615.00981240@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 10:46:17 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: TECH: Amplifone Q's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 10:22 AM 10/6/97 -0500, you wrote: > > It was my first weekend in my new house (that I wasn't >moving stuff in) so I was able to fix/try to fix a few games. > > The good news: My Star Wars now works perfectly (..and >there was much rejoycing...yea, yea) > > The bad news: The Amplifone in my Quantum is really sick. >I replaced the following on the HV board: HV transformer, BU406D, >7824, 7924, electrolytic caps. I still get NO HV whatsoever. The >deflection board seems good (I can hear clatter in the neck, AND the >spot killer seems to be operating normally -- a little pulse when >the game gets turned on, but then it goes off) > > The wierd part of it all is that the tube NEVER sparks, >crackles, etc when I discharge it to disconnect the HV connection. >It never sparks when I discharge it to re-connect the HV connection. >In every monitor I've worked on, I've always been able to get some >kind of spark/snap/whatever when I went to discharge it (even when it >had just been sitting there, with the HV connection disconnected for >a while....There also NO glow from the back of the neck (I even looked for >thse sparks and glow at night.) Does this sound like a bad tube? There >is no high-pitched whine from the HV transformer but there isn't from the >WG HV transformers either, so I don't know if that is normal or not. > > I haven't checked voltages on the HV board yet (Remember, it >was night time, and poking around on a HV board in the dark, while >the monitor is on, is not my idea of a good time!) but will do that >today. > > Any help would be appreciated...Thanks in advance! > >Joe > >BTW: Has anybody tried using the NTE cross for the SK part that is >listed on Jess's page as a replacement for the HV diode in the GO-5? >I don't think there is a place in town that sells SK parts, and I'd >rather not mail order (I want my diode now, NOW!) > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation >Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin >Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com >P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 >------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Joe- I have had many tubes that had bad HV sections and never discharged at all. I know that tubes are suppose to absorb (?) a charge from the air, just sitting there, but I have not experienced that yet... I am assuming you have another Amplifone, why don't you just try your HV board in that monitor... Mit From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 08:52:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 08:52:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:52:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: TECH: Amplifone Q's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Christopher X. Candreva wrote: > 2) The part I actually used was an RCA SK series. It came from RCA in a > sealed back, RCA logo on it, and the bag had both SK7333 and 527A on it. Of course, it came in a sealed BAG. -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 08:58:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 08:58:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: FPGA Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 08:56:39 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day Clay (and folks), A while back I looked at putting the whole Cinematronics board onto a single FPGA. However two obstacles that I ran into were the RAM and the I/O pins. In your letter down below, Clay, you said that SRAM chewed up alot of the FPGA. Does that hold for dynamic RAM like the 256 words by 12 bytes of RAM on the Cinematronics board? With all the digital video output, control panel input and sound card interface, I also felt that I'd run out of I/O pins even with the largest package (4020, at the time). Right now, I'm looking at duplicating the Cinematronics Exercisor with a FPGA and making a universal translator for all Cinematronics control panels. These tasks seem better suited for FPGA. Much more gate intensive rather than register/RAM/IO. Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - These PIC intrigue me....how do they compare to FPGA for quick/easy implementation? >---------- >From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:clay@supra.com] >Sent: Sunday, October 05, 1997 6:12 PM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Re: programmable logic > >>The problem I have with going with the AVG design are the integrators >>themselves. They can only zero'd, and not preset to any random value. >>This makes it hard to emulate the Sega, Cinematronics and old Atari DVG >>systems. If I were to go with an analog design, I'd be tempted to use the >>Cinematronics design. It gets around a lot of the problems of the >>integrator. > >True, but remember the trick about the slew rates on the WG and Amplifone >color monitors... That Atari method of needing to zero the integrators to >get to the center point kinda forces you to return to the center of the >screen, so you tend not to have the big delta's of a parallel load (like >Sega) which the WG and Amplifones can't keep up with. You can get around >it by ordering your display list carefully though... > >>I like the digital design for a couple of reasons: >> >>1) You never have to worry about lines meeting up. All the analog designs >>use critically time vector lengths to line up correctly, and they never >>really line up exactly. > >Yup, although I think Atari's AVG is pretty good. The Vectrex (by >contrast) is pretty bad, but it's going from an 8-bit DAC though too... > >>2) This might be over kill, but by using somewhere between 2 and 4 meg of >>ROM (or possibly RAM) as table lookups between the counters and the DACs, >>you can do all the pincussioning and linearity control digitally. So it's >>a lot of ROM, but ROMs are not *that* expensive, and it's not like I'm >>going into high quantity production. And once again it allows you to set >>the *excact* pincussioning and linearity needed by the monitor, no >>drifting, ever. > >That would be cool. I decided to cut the size of the Sega Multigame PCB >and just use a single 27C040. It's only $6 from JDR... No worth the >boardspace and decode logic to support '010's and '020's... > >>My design differs a bit from the Atari DVG and the Sega (though I haven't >>fully deciphered the Sega) in that I've designed the Bresenham's algorithm >>into some really simple hardware. The catch is that register values must be >>pre-calculated by the PC, an option Atari and Sega didn't have. (Since >>they were both background VGs and didn't have there own processor, to speak >>of.) I control the line draw speed on a clock by clock basis to assure all >>angles are drawn at the same speed. The TTL design looks very workable but >>uses something like 20 ICs! (Why are all TTL devices only 4 bits!) > >That's pretty cool. You know, the TI 34010 graphics processor had some >hardware instructions that made Bresenham's a snap. It was damn fast too-- >plus dual-port DRAM control... Too bad it's obsoleted. :-( > >>Most video cards with built in line draw use the bresenham algorithm, since >>there is no rounding error regardless of the line line, unlike the clocking >>method used by Atari (though it's pretty miniscule). > >Yeah, still though, even with 10bits of D/A I think even the slight errors >in Atari's method is probably pretty small compared to what can be resolved >on the display. > >>Even if you overclock the PICs they still divide by four. To run a PIC at >>the speed of the SX part (when programmed to the no divide mode) you would >>have to run them at 200mhz! > >True. I dunno what kinda MIPS you're after. > >[ISP] > >>I went to there home page and have been looking at the isp parts. I'm >>wondering if you could program one of these to do the whole VG and >>eliminate any processor (Since my ZIP drive claims a 20mb transfer rate >>through the paralled port, I'm assuming I can talk to the VG at the 800k >>rate I believe I'm going to need. To bad, I wanted to use the serial >>port...) > >Guts-iest move I ever saw, Mav. :-) Are you planning on using the ECP or >EPP (or whatever the hell they're called) modes? I always thought that the >"stock" parallel port was limited to around 100-150Kbytes/sec. (Maybe that >was with an older processor driving it though...) > >I decided to use an auto-incrementing counter into my VRAM array for >loading memory off the ISA bus. Just like the Super Nintendo. :-) (/WR >auto-increments the memory pointer to the next address in VRAM.) > >>The parts are expensive, but if it was nearly the whole design it wouldn't >>be so bad. > >You can get 2032's and 1016's pretty cheap in quantity, but I think the >onesy-twosy stuff if steeper. The only time I was looking at them was to >redo the Tempest vector generator in a single device. The main problem was >the number of IO's. There was plenty of gates on even really small >devices, but I ran out of I/O pins. :-/ Then again, I was trying to >accomodate the 12 bit datapaths for the SRAMs still. You don't want to >integrate SRAM cells in the FPGA. Eats WAY too much space. :-) > >As an aside, Cypress (I think it's Cypress) makes some 8-bit counters with >preset and clear. (Kind-of a 74193 on steroids.) Might be hard to just >buy off the shelf though. > >-Clay > >Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager >_______________________________________________________________________ >/\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com >\/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ > > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 09:04:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:04:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 06 Oct 1997 12:00 EDT To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Gregg Woodcock" Subject: re:TECH: Amplifone Q's Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In message "TECH: Amplifone Q's", you write: > The wierd part of it all is that the tube NEVER sparks, >crackles, etc when I discharge it to disconnect the HV connection. >It never sparks when I discharge it to re-connect the HV connection. >In every monitor I've worked on, I've always been able to get some >kind of spark/snap/whatever when I went to discharge it (even when it >had just been sitting there, with the HV connection disconnected for >a while....There also NO glow from the back of the neck (I even looked for >thse sparks and glow at night.) Does this sound like a bad tube? There >is no high-pitched whine from the HV transformer but there isn't from the >WG HV transformers either, so I don't know if that is normal or not. Well the HV is totally unrelated to the heater as far as charges go. If you aren't getting heater then I believe there is a separate fuse just for taht 6.3VAC which you should be able to check. Fix that first since it should be simple. As far as the HV, there is definitely a problem. Again, check the fuses but it probably isn't there. Next check the wires connected to the focus and brightness adjustments (under those rubber things); these are almost always marginal and with all the wiggling putting in that new transformer one of them probably broke. Other than that, you'll have to check over the whole HV section. >BTW: Has anybody tried using the NTE cross for the SK part that is >listed on Jess's page as a replacement for the HV diode in the GO-5? >I don't think there is a place in town that sells SK parts, and I'd >rather not mail order (I want my diode now, NOW!) I have had 2 on order for 3 weeks but they haven't come in yet. I have no doubt that the NTE part will be just fine; why wouldn't it? -- THANX...Gregg day 972.684.7380 night UNLIST/PUBL TEXAS NOT CANADA! woodcock@nortel.com or woodcock@dfwmm.net *CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)* "If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 09:51:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:51:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199710061651.MAA20268@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: FPGA To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 12:51:27 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Ozdemir, Steve" at Oct 6, 97 08:56:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > G'day Clay (and folks), > > A while back I looked at putting the whole Cinematronics board onto a > single FPGA. However two obstacles that I ran into were the RAM and the > I/O pins. In your letter down below, Clay, you said that SRAM chewed up > alot of the FPGA. Does that hold for dynamic RAM like the 256 words by > 12 bytes of RAM on the Cinematronics board? > > With all the digital video output, control panel input and sound card > interface, I also felt that I'd run out of I/O pins even with the > largest package (4020, at the time). > > Right now, I'm looking at duplicating the Cinematronics Exercisor with a > FPGA and making a universal translator for all Cinematronics control > panels. These tasks seem better suited for FPGA. Much more gate > intensive rather than register/RAM/IO. > > Steven S Ozdemir > sso@dsc.com The Cinematronics CPU has 256x12 bits of SRAM with separate Din & Dout. Zonn probably has the know-how to redesign the ROM interface to work with only 1 ROM which would reduce the number of pins by 8, so you'd need ummm 12x2 (vectors) + 6 (sound) + 15+8 (rom bus) + 24(DIP/CTRLS) = about 77 IOs. If you keep the IO multiplexing off the chip (which could work with the control panel FPGA), you'd need about 18 less or aproximately 60 IOs. Hmmmm YUK. If you could find A/Ds with built in latches, you could multiplex the XY data to get down near 50 IO. The rest of the board is about 125 74xx parts. What would be really nice is a VHDL implementation - wasn't someone working on that? Just more Paul babble... -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 10:00:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:00:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Posted-Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 12:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971006115922.00922db0@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 11:59:23 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: re:TECH: Amplifone Q's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >Well the HV is totally unrelated to the heater as far as charges go. >If you aren't getting heater then I believe there is a separate >fuse just for taht 6.3VAC which you should be able to check. Fix that >first since it should be simple. > If remeber right, the 6.3VAC comes directly off of the power supply... I think ???? Mit From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 10:07:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:07:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: TECH: Amplifone Q's Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 17:09:43 GMT Message-ID: <343a17d5.167409666@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On 06 Oct 1997 12:00 EDT, you wrote: >In message "TECH: Amplifone Q's", you write: >> The wierd part of it all is that the tube NEVER sparks, >>crackles, etc when I discharge it to disconnect the HV connection. >>It never sparks when I discharge it to re-connect the HV connection. >>In every monitor I've worked on, I've always been able to get some >>kind of spark/snap/whatever when I went to discharge it (even when it >>had just been sitting there, with the HV connection disconnected for >>a while....There also NO glow from the back of the neck (I even looked = for >>thse sparks and glow at night.) Does this sound like a bad tube? = There >>is no high-pitched whine from the HV transformer but there isn't from = the >>WG HV transformers either, so I don't know if that is normal or not. > >Well the HV is totally unrelated to the heater as far as charges go. >If you aren't getting heater then I believe there is a separate >fuse just for taht 6.3VAC which you should be able to check. Fix that >first since it should be simple. Well on an Amplifone the HV and heater are very related. The Amplifone is like the Sega X/Y montitor in that they drive the heater filament from a winding on the HV transformer. So if your HV section is not working, = your your CRT heater won't glow. It seems to me that running the heater off the HV transformer is just = more loading on the transformer. I guess the new Wintrons are pretty bullet proof, but for the old (still working) RED transformers it might be a = good idea to run the filament directly off one tap of the 25v transformer, through a diode and a couple of resistors (for details follow the = schematic of the WG X/Y monitor which does exactly this) instead of the HV transformer. Does your HV section still have one of the red HV transformers? If so, it's probably bad. If it's the new Wintron it's probably something else, make sure you = follow the wiring diagram very carefully, and that your using the newest wiring diagram (I guess when Wintron first came out with a replacement HV they = had the wiring diagram wrong, but that was a few years ago.) Don't know if I help much except to let you know that on an Amplifone, no heater glow usually means bad HV. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 10:13:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:13:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:12:59 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: call from Wintron Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com just got a call from them, they said they had a unit fail, so there was going to be a few days delay before any of the Ampliphone HVTs go out.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 10:32:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:32:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:33:37 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: FPGA Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >The Cinematronics CPU has 256x12 bits of SRAM with separate Din & Dout. >Zonn probably has the know-how to redesign the ROM interface to work >with only 1 ROM which would reduce the number of pins by 8, so you'd >need ummm 12x2 (vectors) + 6 (sound) + 15+8 (rom bus) + 24(DIP/CTRLS) >= about 77 IOs. If you keep the IO multiplexing off the chip (which >could work with the control panel FPGA), you'd need about 18 less or >aproximately 60 IOs. Hmmmm YUK. If you could find A/Ds with built in >latches, you could multiplex the XY data to get down near 50 IO. The >rest of the board is about 125 74xx parts. Ugggh. Boy, it's stuff like that that just kinda makes you want to make a functional equivalent instead. Then you get back into the debate that a 486/33 w/ motherboard is only about $50 and if you add in an ISA or Parallel Port Vector Generator card like Zonn and I are doing... ;-) >What would be really nice is a VHDL implementation - wasn't someone >working on that? I think Steve did that? Someone had a VHDL or Verilog model of it almost done. Was is Joe? -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 10:38:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:38:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <343922A1.75C2@links.magenta.com> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 11:40:49 -0600 From: Jess Askey X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: call from Wintron References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Al Kossow wrote: > > just got a call from them, they said they had a unit fail, so there was going > to be a few days delay before any of the Ampliphone HVTs go out.. Uh Oh! :-0 I hope it was just a production flaw and not a design flaw. Im amazed at how hot my WinTron HVT runs, I wouldn't want to touch it very long. jess -- Jess M. Askey ************* My Page *************** ESLB/The Audio Analyst * http://magenta.com/havoc * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B **********Pins/Vids For Sale ******** Laramie WY 82070 * http://magenta.com/havoc/game-spot * From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 10:38:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:38:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: FPGA Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:37:11 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day folks, I used Workview to capture the Cinematronics schematic. No ALU's in it yet. Never got around to trying to cram it into an actual device. The emulator work and the recent Cinematronics Exercisor work makes a Cinematronics FPGA kinda moot. Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com >---------- >From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:clay@supra.com] >Sent: Monday, October 06, 1997 11:33 AM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Re: FPGA > >>The Cinematronics CPU has 256x12 bits of SRAM with separate Din & Dout. >>Zonn probably has the know-how to redesign the ROM interface to work >>with only 1 ROM which would reduce the number of pins by 8, so you'd >>need ummm 12x2 (vectors) + 6 (sound) + 15+8 (rom bus) + 24(DIP/CTRLS) >>= about 77 IOs. If you keep the IO multiplexing off the chip (which >>could work with the control panel FPGA), you'd need about 18 less or >>aproximately 60 IOs. Hmmmm YUK. If you could find A/Ds with built in >>latches, you could multiplex the XY data to get down near 50 IO. The >>rest of the board is about 125 74xx parts. > >Ugggh. Boy, it's stuff like that that just kinda makes you want to make a >functional equivalent instead. Then you get back into the debate that a >486/33 w/ motherboard is only about $50 and if you add in an ISA or >Parallel Port Vector Generator card like Zonn and I are doing... ;-) > >>What would be really nice is a VHDL implementation - wasn't someone >>working on that? > >I think Steve did that? Someone had a VHDL or Verilog model of it almost >done. Was is Joe? > >-Clay > >Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager >_______________________________________________________________________ >/\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com >\/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ > > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 10:40:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:40:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: FPGA Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 17:43:14 GMT Message-ID: <343e22fa.170264052@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:33:37 -0800, you wrote: >>The Cinematronics CPU has 256x12 bits of SRAM with separate Din & Dout. >>Zonn probably has the know-how to redesign the ROM interface to work >>with only 1 ROM which would reduce the number of pins by 8, so you'd >>need ummm 12x2 (vectors) + 6 (sound) + 15+8 (rom bus) + 24(DIP/CTRLS) >>=3D about 77 IOs. If you keep the IO multiplexing off the chip (which >>could work with the control panel FPGA), you'd need about 18 less or >>aproximately 60 IOs. Hmmmm YUK. If you could find A/Ds with built in >>latches, you could multiplex the XY data to get down near 50 IO. The >>rest of the board is about 125 74xx parts. > >Ugggh. Boy, it's stuff like that that just kinda makes you want to make= a >functional equivalent instead. Then you get back into the debate that a >486/33 w/ motherboard is only about $50 and if you add in an ISA or >Parallel Port Vector Generator card like Zonn and I are doing... ;-) My thoughts exactly. You just post faster than me. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 11:05:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:05:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Posted-Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 20:01:29 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971006130524.0091b7b0@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 13:05:25 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Please bear with me... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com OK boys, Bush league question of the week: What is the third lead on large radial capacitors for? I was revamping a my first Wells this weekend and was confused by this... Is it alright to replace the 4700 uf's on the d-board with caps that only have two leads? (I assume so, since two of the old leads go on the same mask) Thanks for putting up with me... Mit Matelske btw - Have any of ya'll played SW on mame? Impossible!! Thank God for the control yoke in the cockpit at home :) Maybe I just don't have the dexterity to use the arrow keys... From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 11:23:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:23:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: programmable logic Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 18:25:49 GMT Message-ID: <343f233f.170332308@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Sun, 5 Oct 1997 17:12:45 -0800, you wrote: >>The problem I have with going with the AVG design are the integrators >>themselves. They can only zero'd, and not preset to any random value. >>This makes it hard to emulate the Sega, Cinematronics and old Atari DVG >>systems. If I were to go with an analog design, I'd be tempted to use = the >>Cinematronics design. It gets around a lot of the problems of the >>integrator. > >True, but remember the trick about the slew rates on the WG and = Amplifone >color monitors... That Atari method of needing to zero the integrators = to >get to the center point kinda forces you to return to the center of the >screen, so you tend not to have the big delta's of a parallel load (like >Sega) which the WG and Amplifones can't keep up with. You can get = around >it by ordering your display list carefully though... Of course you can center a DVG anytime you like. But what you can't do with an Atari AVG is jump around the screen like the Cinematronics and = Sega games do. If you want to write your own games you can control the order = of your list, but if you want to run emulated games (more my goal) you don't have that kind of control. >>I like the digital design for a couple of reasons: >> >>1) You never have to worry about lines meeting up. All the analog = designs >>use critically time vector lengths to line up correctly, and they never >>really line up exactly. > >Yup, although I think Atari's AVG is pretty good. The Vectrex (by >contrast) is pretty bad, but it's going from an 8-bit DAC though too... I just picked up a Asteroids Caberet this weekend, and this is the first DVG game I own (well I have a non-working Omega Race) so I looked it over pretty carefully. It looks like they never did get the draw speed quite right since some angles are definitly brighter than others. But I really like the way the lines connect *perfectly*. You just can't get the = Tempest AVG to do that -- I'm talking perfect! Of course if you're controlling the vector time in software (using the = PIC) you could probably add fudge factors based on the length of the lines and get a better lineup than the AVG. >>2) This might be over kill, but by using somewhere between 2 and 4 meg = of >>ROM (or possibly RAM) as table lookups between the counters and the = DACs, >>you can do all the pincussioning and linearity control digitally. So = it's >>a lot of ROM, but ROMs are not *that* expensive, and it's not like I'm >>going into high quantity production. And once again it allows you to = set >>the *excact* pincussioning and linearity needed by the monitor, no >>drifting, ever. > >That would be cool. I decided to cut the size of the Sega Multigame PCB >and just use a single 27C040. It's only $6 from JDR... No worth the >boardspace and decode logic to support '010's and '020's... > >>My design differs a bit from the Atari DVG and the Sega (though I = haven't >>fully deciphered the Sega) in that I've designed the Bresenham's = algorithm >>into some really simple hardware. The catch is that register values = must be >>pre-calculated by the PC, an option Atari and Sega didn't have. (Since >>they were both background VGs and didn't have there own processor, to = speak >>of.) I control the line draw speed on a clock by clock basis to assure= all >>angles are drawn at the same speed. The TTL design looks very workable= but >>uses something like 20 ICs! (Why are all TTL devices only 4 bits!) > >That's pretty cool. You know, the TI 34010 graphics processor had some >hardware instructions that made Bresenham's a snap. It was damn fast = too-- >plus dual-port DRAM control... Too bad it's obsoleted. :-( > >>Most video cards with built in line draw use the bresenham algorithm, = since >>there is no rounding error regardless of the line line, unlike the = clocking >>method used by Atari (though it's pretty miniscule). > >Yeah, still though, even with 10bits of D/A I think even the slight = errors >in Atari's method is probably pretty small compared to what can be = resolved >on the display. Yeah, I doubt if you could even measure the error. The thing about the Breseham algorithm is that it appears to be less complicated, and I = believe I can control the draw speed precisely so that the intensity for any = angle will remain the same. But the increment test registers must be pre-calculated in software or the design would end up be much more complicated than the simple *step rate* registers used by Atari. > >>Even if you overclock the PICs they still divide by four. To run a PIC= at >>the speed of the SX part (when programmed to the no divide mode) you = would >>have to run them at 200mhz! > >True. I dunno what kinda MIPS you're after. Using PIC instructions I was able to write a Bresenham line draw loop in about 12 instructions. So if I want to drive the WG monitor at it's = rated slew rate I figured I needed to upate a 10bit DAC at a 3.33mhz rate, so I need a CPU with a 25ns instruction time. That would be a standard PIC running a 160mhz. The new SX could do it with a 50mhz clock since it can run an instruction on every clock (no internal divide by 4), giving it a 20ns instruction time. It's very tempting to just wait for this processor... >[ISP] > >>I went to there home page and have been looking at the isp parts. I'm >>wondering if you could program one of these to do the whole VG and >>eliminate any processor (Since my ZIP drive claims a 20mb transfer rate >>through the paralled port, I'm assuming I can talk to the VG at the = 800k >>rate I believe I'm going to need. To bad, I wanted to use the serial >>port...) > >Guts-iest move I ever saw, Mav. :-) Are you planning on using the ECP = or >EPP (or whatever the hell they're called) modes? I always thought that = the >"stock" parallel port was limited to around 100-150Kbytes/sec. (Maybe = that >was with an older processor driving it though...) I'm not sure what the speed is, or how ZIP calcuted their spec, but currently this is the unknown part of the equations and I'm not going to = go ahead with any design until I figure out how I'm going to get the data to it fast enough. My caclulation was on worst case data using a standard DVG. 10 bit starting and ending X/Y data, and a 12bit color - 800k per second (wince!). That assumes 500 vectors 40 times a second. On the Cinematronics games most only generate around 200 vectors 38 times a second, Sundance being the largest at 430+ vectors per frame. >I decided to use an auto-incrementing counter into my VRAM array for >loading memory off the ISA bus. Just like the Super Nintendo. :-) (/WR >auto-increments the memory pointer to the next address in VRAM.) > >>The parts are expensive, but if it was nearly the whole design it = wouldn't >>be so bad. > >You can get 2032's and 1016's pretty cheap in quantity, but I think the >onesy-twosy stuff if steeper. The only time I was looking at them was = to >redo the Tempest vector generator in a single device. The main problem = was >the number of IO's. There was plenty of gates on even really small >devices, but I ran out of I/O pins. :-/ Then again, I was trying to >accomodate the 12 bit datapaths for the SRAMs still. You don't want to >integrate SRAM cells in the FPGA. Eats WAY too much space. :-) Yeah, to save a lot of I/O I was thinking of using seperate counters and only running the clock pulse lines out of the isp1016. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 11:34:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:34:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Please bear with me... Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 18:36:44 GMT Message-ID: <34412f59.173430559@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3.0.32.19971006130524.0091b7b0@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971006130524.0091b7b0@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Mon, 06 Oct 1997 13:05:25 -0500, you wrote: > > >OK boys, > >Bush league question of the week: > >What is the third lead on large radial capacitors for? >I was revamping a my first Wells this weekend and was >confused by this... > >Is it alright to replace the 4700 uf's on the d-board >with caps that only have two leads? (I assume so, since >two of the old leads go on the same mask) No problem, the third lead is a no connect (I believe, but won't swear to it). I'm sure it's only there to keep the capacitors from being = installed backwards, and maybe for a little extra mechanical support. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 11:46:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:46:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 13:45:42 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: FPGA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Clay Cowgill wrote: > I think Steve did that? Someone had a VHDL or Verilog model of it almost > done. Was is Joe? It was me. I've got one done in Verilog. I still haven't tested it though, so I'm not guaranteeing anything. I'll try to put it in a public place (my lame web page, for instance) in the next few days if anyone's interested. (BTW: Before anyone asks, I'm NOT doing a version in VHDL. Masochism like that is definitely NOT my style....) Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 13:07:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 13:07:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 06 Oct 1997 16:03 EDT To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Gregg Woodcock" Subject: re:Please bear with me... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In message "Please bear with me...", you write: >Is it alright to replace the 4700 uf's on the d-board >with caps that only have two leads? (I assume so, since >two of the old leads go on the same mask) The only caps with 3 leads are those that are both radial and axial (i.e. two of the leads are the same lead just on different ends of the body). The reason there are 2 holes for one of the leads is that depending on where you get your caps they will have either a small diameter (hole closest to the other hole) or large diamtere (hole farthest from the other hole). Get it? -- THANX...Gregg day 972.684.7380 night UNLIST/PUBL TEXAS NOT CANADA! woodcock@nortel.com or woodcock@dfwmm.net *CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)* "If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 13:16:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 13:16:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971006141531.00983130@btc.btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 14:15:31 -0600 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Please bear with me... In-Reply-To: <34412f59.173430559@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3.0.32.19971006130524.0091b7b0@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> <3.0.32.19971006130524.0091b7b0@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 06:36 PM 10/6/97 GMT, Zonn wrote: >On Mon, 06 Oct 1997 13:05:25 -0500, Mit wrote: > >> >> >>What is the third lead on large radial capacitors for? > >No problem, the third lead is a no connect (I believe, but won't swear to >it). I'm sure it's only there to keep the capacitors from being installed >backwards, and maybe for a little extra mechanical support. You are correct, Sir! The "third" leg on these caps (which is smaller than the other two in length when you get these caps new), is merely for support, and to make sure you don't put them in backwards in the PCB. Remember, these large caps make a BIG bang if wired up backwards... -Anders. ----------------------------------------- | Anders Knudsen | ASIC Design Engineer | Adaptec, Inc., Boulder Technology Center | anders_knudsen@btc.adaptec.com | http://www.adaptec.com ========================================= From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 13:29:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 13:29:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Posted-Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 22:25:26 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971006152922.0098c440@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 15:29:23 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: re:TECH: Amplifone Q's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 11:59 AM 10/6/97 -0500, you wrote: >> >>Well the HV is totally unrelated to the heater as far as charges go. >>If you aren't getting heater then I believe there is a separate >>fuse just for taht 6.3VAC which you should be able to check. Fix that >>first since it should be simple. >> > >If remeber right, the 6.3VAC comes directly off of the power supply... >I think ???? > >Mit > > OK, so I was wrong -- as usual. I just have the worst memory!!! Mit From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 14:52:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 14:52:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 14:53:41 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Sega Multigame Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hi all, I decided to make a major push on the Sega Multigame this last weekend and pretty much re-did the CPU daughtercard. I went for minimal size and parts count instead of flexibility and "clever" factor. ;-) The final board does the following: ----------------------------------- Multigame-- Zektor, Tac Scan, Star Trek, Eliminator, and Space Fury. There's room for three more games in the single 27C040 EPROM. There's a menu-system triggered by NMI. (More on that below) Menu system lives at 0xF000-0xF7FF. If anyone knows of a good reason NOT to use this space, speak now! ;-) (If you know why I shouldn't use 0xF800-0xFFFF either I'd be curious to hear that too...) My plan is to make a "kit" which includes the following: -------------------------------------------------------- CPU daughtercard, fully assembled. You add Z-80 from your CPU board (it plugs into the Z-80 slot). New memory-decode PROM (replaces socketed one on the CPU board). Security Chip "replacement". Just a "jumper board" that plugs into the Security Chip socket. The final cost of all of the above should be under $75 (depends on size of PCB order). (There's a payment to Dave Fish in there as a pat-on-the-back for cracking the security chip, and some $$$ to me for the menu-system and project design/production.) What about controllers: ----------------------- The control-mapper is a separate board. For cash reasons I'll probably need to wait until after the multi-game boards are done to run these. I need to look at it again anyway to decide how to best hook it up. A Star Trek control panel with a couple extra buttons is the preferred control panel, but you can use anything you wish... What about sound: ----------------- Unifying the sound stuff is over my head for now. I'll leave that up to anyone else. The CPU-daughtercard has five bits of "ID" that describes what control mapping and Sound mapping should be used with a particular game. Anyone that comes up with a good way of switching sound stuff (or emulating it or whatever) can use the ID from the daughtercard to automatically switch to the proper arrangement. You can always physically swap sound boards too... The EPROM board isn't necessary once the daughtercard is installed, so that frees up a slot. --- So... Anyone want one? :-) I'll do a run of PCB's as long as I get a few people interested (like at least 10 including myself and a few others), the more interest the lower the price might drop though. I usually order a few extras, but I'll probably raise the price on them and sell 'em to the "general population" in the newsgroup, so if you want one cheaper speak now. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 15:22:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:21:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 22:24:12 GMT Message-ID: <343f64e1.7255928@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Mon, 6 Oct 1997 14:53:41 -0800, you wrote: >So... Anyone want one? :-) I'll do a run of PCB's as long as I get a = few >people interested (like at least 10 including myself and a few others), = the >more interest the lower the price might drop though. I like the idea and the design and I got a convert-a-cabinet (with a Gunsmoke in it) just waiting to be converted back to a Sega multigame, count me in for one... -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 15:56:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:56:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:55:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9710061755.ZM20516@calcite> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Clay, I'm not trying to rain on your parade here, but maybe you should hold off your release until you can make it a TRUE multi-game. I mean, what do you really buy from doing the menu system if you still have to do manual switching of the sound boards? The IDEAL multigame would 1) fit in a standard SegaXY cage 2) combind the CPU/EPROM and SPEECH board into one board, leaving room for 2 XY boards and 3 sound boards (Maybe the daughterboard you already have could be expanded to included the speech circuitry?) 3) Have some sort of "banking" of the sound boards (relays, whatever). Maybe you could make a run of backplane boards that support some sort of switching? 4) a universal controller board for the control panel. This, along with your menu system, would allow a single cage system, with no need to do any board swapping whatsoever, and a person could use a universal control panel that supports all games. Completely user-friendly and idiot proof. I guess what I'm saying is from a customer perspective, what you're providing isn't enough to convince me to change my current game swapping technique. I'd personally wait longer to have a complete multigame system than to have a partial one now. Just my $.02. You don't want to re-live doing two runs like you did with the ESB kit, do you? ;-) -------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail: jenison@cig.mot.com "...I've learned that life is one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead." -- Homer Simpson -------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 16:02:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:02:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:03:27 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: FPGA Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >G'day Clay (and folks), > >A while back I looked at putting the whole Cinematronics board onto a >single FPGA. However two obstacles that I ran into were the RAM and the >I/O pins. In your letter down below, Clay, you said that SRAM chewed up >alot of the FPGA. Does that hold for dynamic RAM like the 256 words by >12 bytes of RAM on the Cinematronics board? (I'm no FPGA guru, so I'll give you the 50,000 feet explanation as I understand it.) In an SRAM, each group of gates/cells can effectively store a bit of information (the chip die is layed out to access the bits in what's effectively a big matrix). This gives pretty good memory density since it's specifically designed for this memory matrix. DRAM's use a simpler (smaller) group of gates/cells to store each bit, this gives better bits/sq inch, but requires a periodic "refresh" to keep the bit values. FPGA's implement a memory cell as a latch. So an eight bit byte takes 8 latches, each of which are built up from a large number of gates. Add in the sequencer and muxes and "SRAM" virtualized in the FPGA starts consuming a LOT of the usable gates in the array. Essentially the technology of the basic "gate array" is a poor choice for high-density memory... That having been said, 256x12 isn't *that* much RAM. I was thinking like 8K or something. So you're talking 3072 latches plus muxes and addressing stuff. That still looks like a quite a bit. :-/ I dunno how much "real" resources that would eat in an FPGA. If I get a chance I'll look around a little and see if there isn't some examples of RAM in FPGA's that might give a clue to how much it really eats up... >ps - These PIC intrigue me....how do they compare to FPGA for quick/easy >implementation? The PIC's just a microcontroller for all intents and purposes. (Actually it seems a LOT like a PDP-8 ;-) They're cheap (like $2.50 for a 16C54), pretty quick (20MHz clock = 5 MIPS), and have a very nice (free) development environment called MP-LAB that has an assembler and simulator and whatnot. A company called Scenix Semiconductor has a PIC-clone, kinda like Dallas did with the 8051. They execute one instruction per clock at 50MHz. Lots of neato features-- flash programmability, onboard 4MHz clock, etc. They're all pretty fast, but still not as fast as an async combinatorial device like a 22V10 or something. They're competing for slowing state-machine type applications pretty well though... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 16:29:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:29:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: FPGA Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 23:32:08 GMT Message-ID: <344071fb.10610253@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:03:27 -0800, you wrote: >>G'day Clay (and folks), >> >>A while back I looked at putting the whole Cinematronics board onto a >>single FPGA. However two obstacles that I ran into were the RAM and = the >>I/O pins. In your letter down below, Clay, you said that SRAM chewed = up >>alot of the FPGA. Does that hold for dynamic RAM like the 256 words by >>12 bytes of RAM on the Cinematronics board? > >(I'm no FPGA guru, so I'll give you the 50,000 feet explanation as I >understand it.) > >In an SRAM, each group of gates/cells can effectively store a bit of >information (the chip die is layed out to access the bits in what's >effectively a big matrix). This gives pretty good memory density since >it's specifically designed for this memory matrix. My understading is that is takes four transistors per bit setup as a Set/Reset latch. >DRAM's use a simpler (smaller) group of gates/cells to store each bit, = this >gives better bits/sq inch, but requires a periodic "refresh" to keep the >bit values. In DRAM they use 1 transistor and a capacitor. Unfortunately the = capacitor will discharge quickly, so it must be *refreshed*. So I believe this makes DRAM nearly four times the storage density of = SRAM for the same die size. >>ps - These PIC intrigue me....how do they compare to FPGA for = quick/easy >>implementation? > >The PIC's just a microcontroller for all intents and purposes. = (Actually >it seems a LOT like a PDP-8 ;-) They're cheap (like $2.50 for a 16C54), >pretty quick (20MHz clock =3D 5 MIPS), and have a very nice (free) >development environment called MP-LAB that has an assembler and = simulator >and whatnot. It IS a lot like the PDP-8 (I've described it that way myself). I still have a programmer's reference manual for a PDP-8. Some company started making a PDP-8 on a single chip for a while there, I wonder if it's still available. The PDP-8 clone I used to program back in a Jr College was a completely wire wrapped work of art. All TTL and a *lot* of wire wrap. I'd sure like to have that now, it would make a great room heater. I wonder if you could write software loops that would cause it to give off different amounts of heat and use it as a self regulating heater... -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 16:40:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:40:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 23:43:01 GMT Message-ID: <34417589.11520355@tommy.doctord.com> References: <9710061755.ZM20516@calcite> In-Reply-To: <9710061755.ZM20516@calcite> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:55:43 -0500 (CDT), you wrote: >Clay, > >I'm not trying to rain on your parade here, but maybe you should hold = off your >release until you can make it a TRUE multi-game. I mean, what do you = really >buy from doing the menu system if you still have to do manual switching = of the >sound boards? > >The IDEAL multigame would > >1) fit in a standard SegaXY cage >2) combind the CPU/EPROM and SPEECH board into one board, leaving room = for 2 XY >boards and 3 sound boards (Maybe the daughterboard you already have = could be >expanded to included the speech circuitry?) >3) Have some sort of "banking" of the sound boards (relays, whatever). = Maybe >you could make a run of backplane boards that support some sort of = switching? >4) a universal controller board for the control panel. >This, along with your menu system, would allow a single cage system, = with no >need to do any board swapping whatsoever, and a person could use a = universal >control panel that supports all games. Completely user-friendly and = idiot >proof. > >I guess what I'm saying is from a customer perspective, what you're = providing >isn't enough to convince me to change my current game swapping = technique. > >I'd personally wait longer to have a complete multigame system than to = have a >partial one now. > >Just my $.02. You don't want to re-live doing two runs like you did = with the >ESB kit, do you? ;-) Nah, the *ideal* game would fit in my watch and yet project a 25" image = in front of me while I played on a virtual front panel that also floating in front of me, and would allow for four players in Eliminator... But that might have to wait for the 3rd run of PC boards. ;^) (Sorry = I'm under too much pressure here at work...) But it does sound like Clay's current design allows for the banking of sound boards if someone wanted to come up with the relay banks (or whatever) to do the switching. The idea of a run of back plane boards that would hold all the standard = and sound cards does have it's appeal though! -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 16:58:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:58:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:58:56 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Clay, > >I'm not trying to rain on your parade here, but maybe you should hold off your >release until you can make it a TRUE multi-game. I mean, what do you really >buy from doing the menu system if you still have to do manual switching of the >sound boards? Good input, this is my rationale: 1) I can produce the CPU daughtercard now. (Something about "bird in the hand worth two in the bush"... :-) 2) Creaping Featuritus was making the previous design too unwieldy for me to get it all done. 3) Other people had expressed interest in the sound board tinkerings, so they might well do better than I. 4) An all in one would probably run up to the "close to $200" range on a per-unit basis when you add in the control router, the speech support stuff, and the audio mux. With a global market of this thing at about 20 units, I don't want to scare people off. >The IDEAL multigame would > >1) fit in a standard SegaXY cage >2) combind the CPU/EPROM and SPEECH board into one board, leaving room for 2 XY >boards and 3 sound boards (Maybe the daughterboard you already have could be >expanded to included the speech circuitry?) >3) Have some sort of "banking" of the sound boards (relays, whatever). Maybe >you could make a run of backplane boards that support some sort of switching? >4) a universal controller board for the control panel. I agree with all these in theory. #1 is kinda nebulous-- there's some stuff that I think will work better outside the card cage (control router, audio mux, monitor adapter, etc.) #2 -- sounds good, but it'd probably quadruple the PCB size which makes it cost prohibitive for me. #3 -- sorta what I was thinking. #4 -- right, I mentioned that one I just don't have the time/money to run that design at the same time. >This, along with your menu system, would allow a single cage system, with no >need to do any board swapping whatsoever, and a person could use a universal >control panel that supports all games. Completely user-friendly and idiot >proof. Yup. That would be cool. I think that's the final goal, but it's just too much for me to bite off. The "ID" outputs from the daughtercard will let you hook up the control switcher, and a relay/mux satellite board for the sound cards at a later time. For me, I think I'll remove the speech board for now and plug in all the sound boards. Then I'll either use an analog mux driven by the ID lines for selecting the right sound output, or I'll wire in a Radio-Shack rotary switch. ;-) Tac/Scan and Star Trek share the Universal Sound board, so that's nice... >I guess what I'm saying is from a customer perspective, what you're providing >isn't enough to convince me to change my current game swapping technique. That's cool. Not trying to twist your arm. This is definately a more hacker level kit than the StarWars/ESB stuff. But then again, I think this list spends a lot more time in "geek mode" than RGVAC. ;-) >I'd personally wait longer to have a complete multigame system than to have a >partial one now. Good by me-- I know that if I wait to do "everything" all at once it'll never get done though. ;-) >Just my $.02. You don't want to re-live doing two runs like you did with the >ESB kit, do you? ;-) Actually, that worked pretty well. The first stuff went out and feedback happened that prompted me to simplify some things and add some features. Just the usual product-development cycle happening. For what it's worth, I'll take a look at a little Audio-mux to handle the sound cards. Maybe it makes sense to glue it on the control-mapper board. You also have to remember that half my interest in the G-80 is in writing a new game or two for it, and the CPU daughtercard gives me an easy method to make it available... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 16:59:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:59:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:00:10 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: programmable logic Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Of course you can center a DVG anytime you like. But what you can't do >with an Atari AVG is jump around the screen like the Cinematronics and Sega >games do. If you want to write your own games you can control the order of >your list, but if you want to run emulated games (more my goal) you don't >have that kind of control. I agree. The only "gotcha" with the instantaneous re-positioning of the beam is that the color Amplifone and Wells Gardners can't keep up. As a result of testing with the Sega hardware on a WG I have a rule of thumb: Don't deflect farther than 1/2 the screen width in a single "jump". (Kinda makes sense the way the AVG works, eh?) Anything more than about 50% of the screen width as an instantaneous change results in the a distorted vector. >I just picked up a Asteroids Caberet this weekend, and this is the first >DVG game I own (well I have a non-working Omega Race) so I looked it over >pretty carefully. It looks like they never did get the draw speed quite >right since some angles are definitly brighter than others. But I really >like the way the lines connect *perfectly*. You just can't get the Tempest >AVG to do that -- I'm talking perfect! Yep, there's a lot to be said for directly driving deflection with the DAC. The smaller screen sizes (like 13") with vectors look really sharp too. >Of course if you're controlling the vector time in software (using the PIC) >you could probably add fudge factors based on the length of the lines and >get a better lineup than the AVG. I was basically going to put the burden of line brightness on the host CPU and have it loaded as a "line" parameter into the VRAM. The more I looked at Atari's way of controlling the brightness of all three guns with one DAC it really works well for fixing line length/brightness problems. Length of a line is a pretty calculation on a 486 or better, so I was going to use that for doing the correction. >Yeah, I doubt if you could even measure the error. The thing about the >Breseham algorithm is that it appears to be less complicated, and I believe >I can control the draw speed precisely so that the intensity for any angle >will remain the same. But the increment test registers must be >pre-calculated in software or the design would end up be much more >complicated than the simple *step rate* registers used by Atari. Wow. That would be really cool. I'd love to have a DVG card. ;-) I just didn't want to tackle all the issues with a stand-alone state machine. If you can pull it off that'd be tremendously cool... >Using PIC instructions I was able to write a Bresenham line draw loop in >about 12 instructions. So if I want to drive the WG monitor at it's rated >slew rate I figured I needed to upate a 10bit DAC at a 3.33mhz rate, so I >need a CPU with a 25ns instruction time. That would be a standard PIC >running a 160mhz. The new SX could do it with a 50mhz clock since it can >run an instruction on every clock (no internal divide by 4), giving it a >20ns instruction time. One thing to remember about the PIC is that you'll need to bit-bang stuff like writes to DAC registers and stuff. My actual control loop was really small for the AVG stuff, but then you start adding stuff like "set DAC1 write low, set DAC1 write high, output data, set DAC2 write low, set DAC2 write high..." etc. Added about 50% in my case 'cause I'm controlling some digital switches plus the DACs and memory counters... >It's very tempting to just wait for this processor... Yep. Particularly at <$5. >I'm not sure what the speed is, or how ZIP calcuted their spec, but >currently this is the unknown part of the equations and I'm not going to go >ahead with any design until I figure out how I'm going to get the data to >it fast enough. My caclulation was on worst case data using a standard >DVG. 10 bit starting and ending X/Y data, and a 12bit color - 800k per >second (wince!). That assumes 500 vectors 40 times a second. On the >Cinematronics games most only generate around 200 vectors 38 times a >second, Sundance being the largest at 430+ vectors per frame. Hmmmm. 800K per second. I just don't think a parallel port can pull it off. That's more in SCSI 1 throughput range. (*Snicker*, you could make an IDE/ATA vector generator. ;-) The Vectrex goes through about 230 vectors max before flicker (so assume about 33ms refresh, probably a little longer 'cause the monochrome phosphors have a pretty long persistance). Curiously enough, Asteroids seems to be tied to a 60Hz refresh rate. Vector drawing only takes up a fraction of that time though. I think I wanted about 750 vectors every 33ms, so that's probably pretty close to your 500 every 1/40th sec... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 17:12:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:12:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:13:47 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: FPGA Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com [SRAM] >My understading is that is takes four transistors per bit setup as a >Set/Reset latch. [DRAM] >In DRAM they use 1 transistor and a capacitor. Unfortunately the capacitor >will discharge quickly, so it must be *refreshed*. > >So I believe this makes DRAM nearly four times the storage density of SRAM >for the same die size. That sounds right. Would seem to be true if you look at density vs. availability or SRAM and DRAM at any given point in time. >The PDP-8 clone I used to program back in a Jr College was a completely >wire wrapped work of art. All TTL and a *lot* of wire wrap. We had a real one at Oregon State. It was pretty cool-- the one "neat" EE course in Sophomore year was assembly programming and they made the first 4 weeks all PDP-8. We had a DOS simulator (of the PDP-8, not the other way around!) to work with at home, and then you had to hand-enter the code on the PDP for your "real" run. Pretty fun in an admittedly nerdy way. ;-) >I'd sure like to have that now, it would make a great room heater. I >wonder if you could write software loops that would cause it to give off >different amounts of heat and use it as a self regulating heater... Reminds me of the story of the guy that used processor loading to convey morse-code and "transmit" secure files to unsecure remote terminals. (I think it was at AT&T when some government spook-type was gloating how secure the computer was.) The programmer delivered a copy of an internal "secure" database to the security guys when they "knew" he couldn't have got it. Urban legend has it that he was fired on the spot, and rehired by the defense contractor that made the computer before he made it to his car... ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 17:14:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:14:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199710070014.UAA10020@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> From: "The Retrodaddy" To: Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 20:16:30 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > 4) An all in one would probably run up to the "close to $200" range on a > per-unit basis when you add in the control router, the speech support > stuff, and the audio mux. With a global market of this thing at about 20 > units, I don't want to scare people off. I would be happy to pay it. Considering what one new upright or even a PCB cocts, it would be well worth it. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 17:26:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:25:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: "Ghanbari, Ray A., Ph.D." (Ray Ghanbari) Message-Id: <199710070024.TAA08406@feynman.Mayo.EDU> Subject: Re: Sega Multigame To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 19:24:57 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <9710061755.ZM20516@calcite> from "Mark Jenison" at Oct 6, 97 05:55:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Mark Jenison wrote: > > Clay, > > I'm not trying to rain on your parade here, but maybe you should hold off your > release until you can make it a TRUE multi-game. I mean, what do you really > buy from doing the menu system if you still have to do manual switching of the > sound boards? This sounds suspiciously like the debate raging here at work. One on side: "idealists" aka, Best of breed: Build each component to do its job and work well with others On the other: "Realists" aka, been burned once too many times: We'll never have time to mix and match things, or ever come back to them, so we need it done close to right in one big package Of course, both views are right. My view: Clay's proposal is near ideal for a multi-game *cpu* board (only thing I would add is support for a 27080, with a jumper to strap it for a 27040...may as well make absolutely certain that you will never need more EPROM space) I like his standardization on a 5 bit id "bus" for game select. Lets others mix and match. If someday, someone makes a universal sound board with speech support, plug into this. For those of us who are cheap but want the convenience of the menu system, we'll swap in sound boards. For the control input beast, that could have any of 5 flavors right now (Tempest encoder, buttons to encoder, sega encoder, eliminator 4 player, encoder wheel 4 player [for future games]). Let each market segment design their own little conversion PCB for inputs and plug it into the game select bus. For instance, all I need is the 4p eliminator circuit. Only semi-generic feature that could be tossed on there is the vector signal conversion circuitry for WG monitors, which could almost be considered a "cpu" function (may be part of the spec and I missed it) Anyway, Clay sign me up for one and toss it into my ever growing box collection in your garage ;-) Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 17:34:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:34:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: programmable logic Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 00:36:52 GMT Message-ID: <34427f2a.13986031@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:00:10 -0800, you wrote: >>Of course you can center a DVG anytime you like. But what you can't do >>with an Atari AVG is jump around the screen like the Cinematronics and = Sega >>games do. If you want to write your own games you can control the = order of >>your list, but if you want to run emulated games (more my goal) you = don't >>have that kind of control. > >I agree. The only "gotcha" with the instantaneous re-positioning of the >beam is that the color Amplifone and Wells Gardners can't keep up. As a >result of testing with the Sega hardware on a WG I have a rule of thumb: >Don't deflect farther than 1/2 the screen width in a single "jump". = (Kinda >makes sense the way the AVG works, eh?) Anything more than about 50% of >the screen width as an instantaneous change results in the a distorted >vector. I agree with that, my point is that you can have a digital vector = generator emulate an AVG by simple going to the center of the screen when emulating the AVG command to go to the center of the screen. You can also emulate any delays that are needed to move to the new position before turning on the trace. So if you're emulating a set of AVG commands you can easily = act like an AVG with a DVG, on the other hand if you try to run Asteroids or = a Sega game on a AVG, it's just not going to be able to do the direct positioning these games may call for. > >>I just picked up a Asteroids Caberet this weekend, and this is the = first >>DVG game I own (well I have a non-working Omega Race) so I looked it = over >>pretty carefully. It looks like they never did get the draw speed = quite >>right since some angles are definitly brighter than others. But I = really >>like the way the lines connect *perfectly*. You just can't get the = Tempest >>AVG to do that -- I'm talking perfect! > >Yep, there's a lot to be said for directly driving deflection with the = DAC. >The smaller screen sizes (like 13") with vectors look really sharp too. > >>Of course if you're controlling the vector time in software (using the = PIC) >>you could probably add fudge factors based on the length of the lines = and >>get a better lineup than the AVG. > >I was basically going to put the burden of line brightness on the host = CPU >and have it loaded as a "line" parameter into the VRAM. The more I = looked >at Atari's way of controlling the brightness of all three guns with one = DAC >it really works well for fixing line length/brightness problems. Length= of >a line is a pretty calculation on a 486 or better, so I was going to use >that for doing the correction. Sounds like it would work to me. > >>Yeah, I doubt if you could even measure the error. The thing about the >>Breseham algorithm is that it appears to be less complicated, and I = believe >>I can control the draw speed precisely so that the intensity for any = angle >>will remain the same. But the increment test registers must be >>pre-calculated in software or the design would end up be much more >>complicated than the simple *step rate* registers used by Atari. > >Wow. That would be really cool. I'd love to have a DVG card. ;-) I = just >didn't want to tackle all the issues with a stand-alone state machine. = If >you can pull it off that'd be tremendously cool... Later on in the week I'll either whip up an ASCII block diagram, or a simple graphic of some kind and post it with a block diagram of a = bresenham loop and you can tell me what you think. > >>Using PIC instructions I was able to write a Bresenham line draw loop = in >>about 12 instructions. So if I want to drive the WG monitor at it's = rated >>slew rate I figured I needed to upate a 10bit DAC at a 3.33mhz rate, so= I >>need a CPU with a 25ns instruction time. That would be a standard PIC >>running a 160mhz. The new SX could do it with a 50mhz clock since it = can >>run an instruction on every clock (no internal divide by 4), giving it = a >>20ns instruction time. > >One thing to remember about the PIC is that you'll need to bit-bang = stuff >like writes to DAC registers and stuff. My actual control loop was = really >small for the AVG stuff, but then you start adding stuff like "set DAC1 >write low, set DAC1 write high, output data, set DAC2 write low, set = DAC2 >write high..." etc. Added about 50% in my case 'cause I'm controlling = some >digital switches plus the DACs and memory counters... I counted the bit banging, but I was just counting instructions for the main 3.3mhz DAC increment loop, this is after all the registers and DAC values have been preset. Time between vectors (loading the registers and such) is a different matter and would be part of the 800k/sec rate I = would need to maintain. All this speed is a reason the ISP parts look so appealing, albeit = slightly intimidating. The ideal ISP design would be the bresenham algorithm with one level of vector buffering so an off board processor could preload all the register while the current line was being drawn. The a PIC might be fast enough to do the 800k transfers needed, and add an additional level = of buffering. I'm sure the SX-50 could pull this off beautifully. I downloaded the freebie Synario and might give it a try (with or without the added level off buffering) using the built in 7400 type macros. > >>It's very tempting to just wait for this processor... > >Yep. Particularly at <$5. Really? That cheap? Any idea when? With one SX-50 completely dedicated to the bresenham loop, and another taking care of the VG to PC interface, this might be a slick solution -- though there would still be the problem of speed of comunications between the processors... hmm... >>I'm not sure what the speed is, or how ZIP calcuted their spec, but >>currently this is the unknown part of the equations and I'm not going = to go >>ahead with any design until I figure out how I'm going to get the data = to >>it fast enough. My caclulation was on worst case data using a standard >>DVG. 10 bit starting and ending X/Y data, and a 12bit color - 800k per >>second (wince!). That assumes 500 vectors 40 times a second. On the >>Cinematronics games most only generate around 200 vectors 38 times a >>second, Sundance being the largest at 430+ vectors per frame. > >Hmmmm. 800K per second. I just don't think a parallel port can pull it >off. That's more in SCSI 1 throughput range. (*Snicker*, you could = make >an IDE/ATA vector generator. ;-) What I need to do is build a cable between to computers and see what kind of speeds I can achieve. > >The Vectrex goes through about 230 vectors max before flicker (so assume >about 33ms refresh, probably a little longer 'cause the monochrome >phosphors have a pretty long persistance). > >Curiously enough, Asteroids seems to be tied to a 60Hz refresh rate. >Vector drawing only takes up a fraction of that time though. > >I think I wanted about 750 vectors every 33ms, so that's probably pretty >close to your 500 every 1/40th sec... The 500 for 1/40 sec was used to hopefully take into account anything the Sega system might be doing. This is probably one of those dividing issues (athenticity and all), but = I think it would be really cool to come up with an emulated game that used none of the original parts (except the monitor), but you would be hard pressed to know whether you were playing the original or a copy. And then if someone were ever to come up with a new version of an X/Y monitor... -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 18:08:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:08:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:09:19 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >This sounds suspiciously like the debate raging here at work. One on >side: [...] >Of course, both views are right. Ahhh, yes we know that one well. Engineering likes to build high-end stuff, but the low-cost stuff outsells it 1000:1. Much to Engineering's chagrin out "low-cost" stuff just got more magazine awards than any of our "top-of-the-line" models did. *Humph*. >Clay's proposal is near ideal for a multi-game *cpu* board (only thing >I would add is support for a 27080, with a jumper to strap it for a >27040...may as well make absolutely certain that you will never need >more EPROM space) Hmmm. Good idea. I'll look at that. One of the 5 "ID" lines could be used to control that other address line on the 27080. Need to think through that. >Only semi-generic feature that could be tossed on there is the vector >signal conversion circuitry for WG monitors, which could almost be >considered a "cpu" function (may be part of the spec and I missed it) Nah, I'm just being quiet about it since I'm busy over-engineering it. ;-) Turns out we used to use Xicor X9313 digital potentiometers in our voice modems. The're non-volatile digital pots (save settings when power is off). Can you say "onscreen monitor adjustments"? Good, I thought you could! :-) >Anyway, Clay sign me up for one and toss it into my ever growing >box collection in your garage ;-) (Hey Ray, send me your address again. I have Box #1 packed up and ready to go!) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 18:26:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:26:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34398FBB.D9579ED9@ibm.net> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 18:26:20 -0700 From: John Butler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Multigame References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Clay, Count me in on one of those boards. I just bought a Star Trek Board set for my Space Fury machine, but I would love to play them all instead. By the way, I could use a Star Trek CP. Don't care about the overlay a I will be scraping it for my Star Trek cockpit that I picked up. What happened to the discussion about the universal spinner for ST, Tempest, Arkanoid etc. John Butler Clay Cowgill wrote: > >Clay, > > > >I'm not trying to rain on your parade here, but maybe you should hold off your > >release until you can make it a TRUE multi-game. I mean, what do you really > >buy from doing the menu system if you still have to do manual switching of the > >sound boards? > > Good input, this is my rationale: > > 1) I can produce the CPU daughtercard now. (Something about "bird in the > hand worth two in the bush"... :-) > > 2) Creaping Featuritus was making the previous design too unwieldy for me > to get it all done. > > 3) Other people had expressed interest in the sound board tinkerings, so > they might well do better than I. > > 4) An all in one would probably run up to the "close to $200" range on a > per-unit basis when you add in the control router, the speech support > stuff, and the audio mux. With a global market of this thing at about 20 > units, I don't want to scare people off. > > >The IDEAL multigame would > > > >1) fit in a standard SegaXY cage > >2) combind the CPU/EPROM and SPEECH board into one board, leaving room for 2 XY > >boards and 3 sound boards (Maybe the daughterboard you already have could be > >expanded to included the speech circuitry?) > >3) Have some sort of "banking" of the sound boards (relays, whatever). Maybe > >you could make a run of backplane boards that support some sort of switching? > >4) a universal controller board for the control panel. > > I agree with all these in theory. #1 is kinda nebulous-- there's some > stuff that I think will work better outside the card cage (control router, > audio mux, monitor adapter, etc.) #2 -- sounds good, but it'd probably > quadruple the PCB size which makes it cost prohibitive for me. #3 -- sorta > what I was thinking. #4 -- right, I mentioned that one I just don't have > the time/money to run that design at the same time. > > >This, along with your menu system, would allow a single cage system, with no > >need to do any board swapping whatsoever, and a person could use a universal > >control panel that supports all games. Completely user-friendly and idiot > >proof. > > Yup. That would be cool. I think that's the final goal, but it's just too > much for me to bite off. The "ID" outputs from the daughtercard will let > you hook up the control switcher, and a relay/mux satellite board for the > sound cards at a later time. > > For me, I think I'll remove the speech board for now and plug in all the > sound boards. Then I'll either use an analog mux driven by the ID lines > for selecting the right sound output, or I'll wire in a Radio-Shack rotary > switch. ;-) > > Tac/Scan and Star Trek share the Universal Sound board, so that's nice... > > >I guess what I'm saying is from a customer perspective, what you're providing > >isn't enough to convince me to change my current game swapping technique. > > That's cool. Not trying to twist your arm. This is definately a more > hacker level kit than the StarWars/ESB stuff. But then again, I think this > list spends a lot more time in "geek mode" than RGVAC. ;-) > > >I'd personally wait longer to have a complete multigame system than to have a > >partial one now. > > Good by me-- I know that if I wait to do "everything" all at once it'll > never get done though. ;-) > > >Just my $.02. You don't want to re-live doing two runs like you did with the > >ESB kit, do you? ;-) > > Actually, that worked pretty well. The first stuff went out and feedback > happened that prompted me to simplify some things and add some features. > Just the usual product-development cycle happening. > > For what it's worth, I'll take a look at a little Audio-mux to handle the > sound cards. Maybe it makes sense to glue it on the control-mapper board. > You also have to remember that half my interest in the G-80 is in writing a > new game or two for it, and the CPU daughtercard gives me an easy method to > make it available... > > -Clay > > Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager > _______________________________________________________________________ > /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com > \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 6 20:32:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 20:31:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 23:31:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Dangerwil@aol.com Message-ID: <971006232834_254434282@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In a message dated 97-10-06 18:57:51 EDT, you write: > I'd personally wait longer to have a complete multigame system than to have a > partial one now. > > Just my $.02. You don't want to re-live doing two runs like you did with > the > ESB kit, do you? ;-) > > --------------------- Mark, Where is your spirit of hot-rodding? Hey, if you can just stick a blower on it and make it go faster, why wait for nitrous? I am 'jonesin to play Zektor, and I want to hack something up soon. Peace, Bill From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 7 08:54:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 08:54:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 08:55:20 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >By the way, I could use a Star Trek CP. Don't care about the overlay a I >will be >scraping it for my Star Trek cockpit that I picked up. I don't have any spares. :-/ Anyone else? Has anyone talked to Paul Frazee lately? He had some StarTrek panels last I checked, but that was months ago... >What happened to the discussion about the universal spinner for ST, Tempest, >Arkanoid etc. Oh, yeah. I actually finished that. Al sent me an HP encoder assembly to test with (haven't done that yet), and I've tested with a Claristat part, but I wanted to get a couple more encoders to see how it works with them. Hmmm. I completely forgot I was going to make an "encoder FAQ" with all the counts/rev of the encoder games. As I recall, the PIC that I did supports Atari Style, Sega Style, Omega Race, and Bally/Midway (kick, TRON) formats. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 7 09:12:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 09:11:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <343A5FD7.3E84@links.magenta.com> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 10:14:15 -0600 From: Jess Askey X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Multigame References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Somebody wrote: > >By the way, I could use a Star Trek CP. Don't care about the overlay a I > >will be > >scraping it for my Star Trek cockpit that I picked up. I have one here, I can't remember the condition of it but I guess that doesn't matter. I think it was really nice though, so it would be a shame to destroy it. I would sell it for $30, shipping included. It would take me a few days to find a good box for it too as my supply of big boxes seems to be non-existant right now. jess -- Jess M. Askey ************* My Page *************** ESLB/The Audio Analyst * http://magenta.com/havoc * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B **********Pins/Vids For Sale ******** Laramie WY 82070 * http://magenta.com/havoc/game-spot * From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 7 09:16:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 09:16:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: FPGA Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 09:15:34 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day folks, So as long as we are out on RAM tangents, can I ask if there's a 4:1 ration of DRAM to SRAM how does the recent IBM (or was it Intel) memory breakthrough of 2 bits per "memory cell" affect this ratio? Can I assume that it just brings SRAM storage capacity closer to DRAM storage capacity? I do understand that the breakthrough applies to flash and I'm just using the term SRAM interchangeable (and perhaps inappropriately). Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com >---------- >From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:clay@supra.com] >Sent: Monday, October 06, 1997 6:13 PM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Re: FPGA > >[SRAM] >>My understading is that is takes four transistors per bit setup as a >>Set/Reset latch. >[DRAM] >>In DRAM they use 1 transistor and a capacitor. Unfortunately the capacitor >>will discharge quickly, so it must be *refreshed*. >> >>So I believe this makes DRAM nearly four times the storage density of SRAM >>for the same die size. > >That sounds right. Would seem to be true if you look at density vs. >availability or SRAM and DRAM at any given point in time. > >>The PDP-8 clone I used to program back in a Jr College was a completely >>wire wrapped work of art. All TTL and a *lot* of wire wrap. > >We had a real one at Oregon State. It was pretty cool-- the one "neat" EE >course in Sophomore year was assembly programming and they made the first 4 >weeks all PDP-8. We had a DOS simulator (of the PDP-8, not the other way >around!) to work with at home, and then you had to hand-enter the code on >the PDP for your "real" run. Pretty fun in an admittedly nerdy way. ;-) > >>I'd sure like to have that now, it would make a great room heater. I >>wonder if you could write software loops that would cause it to give off >>different amounts of heat and use it as a self regulating heater... > >Reminds me of the story of the guy that used processor loading to convey >morse-code and "transmit" secure files to unsecure remote terminals. (I >think it was at AT&T when some government spook-type was gloating how >secure the computer was.) The programmer delivered a copy of an internal >"secure" database to the security guys when they "knew" he couldn't have >got it. Urban legend has it that he was fired on the spot, and rehired by >the defense contractor that made the computer before he made it to his >car... ;-) > >-Clay > >Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager >_______________________________________________________________________ >/\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com >\/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ > > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 7 09:27:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 09:27:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 09:27:27 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com re Frazee.. I was in KC last week to see Paul's place. There isn't much there that I was interested in. I guess what happened was he bought out a distributor's back room and has been selling it off over the last year or so. He has a box of random G80 boards that he said he'd already sold, and a bunch of Williams boards he had already sold to George at Eldorado. I did see a couple of Sega spinner assys in the random parts. This was at is 'new place'.. I didn't go over to the other place where the G05's were supposed to be. It sounded like the 'Texas posse' cleaned out anything interesting when they were up there a month ago. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 7 09:29:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 09:29:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 09:29:05 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I have a panel from an asteroids->trek conversion, rather than trashing the one that Jess has.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 7 10:30:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 10:30:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 12:29:54 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: FPGA In-Reply-To: <344071fb.10610253@tommy.doctord.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Zonn wrote: > My understading is that is takes four transistors per bit setup as a > Set/Reset latch. SRAMs actually use 6 transistors per bit -- 4 for the 2 inverters, plus 2 for the pass transistors. > In DRAM they use 1 transistor and a capacitor. Unfortunately the capacitor > will discharge quickly, so it must be *refreshed*. That's right -- it's 2 transistors -- one has the drain connected to the source so that it acts like a capacitor. > So I believe this makes DRAM nearly four times the storage density of SRAM > for the same die size. That's hard to say -- it depends on the process, etc. Just because DRAM uses a single transistor capacitor doesn't mean that the capacitor transistor is the same size as one of the tranisitors in an SRAM cell. DRAMs are VERY sensitive to processes, because things like leakage currents, etc are VERY important in them....ANYways.... As far as FPGAs go -- you can emulate an SRAM cell with a latch. FPGAs don't care about transistors, though -- FPGA size is measured in CLBs (Combinational Logic Blocks.) I remember Xilinx FPGAs of 2 or so years ago had CLBs which could implement any function of 5 variables (the CLB is SRAM based -- although you can think of it as a ROM) and each one had a flip-flop. PROBABLY it will take 1 CLB per bit of memory, but since those are SRAM based, I wonder if there is some hack to use the CLB as however-many bits of SRAM. That's as much as I know... Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 7 10:38:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 10:38:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 12:37:40 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Amplifone Fix.... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hey all, I just wanted to follow-up my post yesterday with my fix for my Amplifone HV problems... So I start probing around the HV board, and find that the +24V is there, but no -24V. I trace back, and there isn't even any -32V, or whatever the corresponding input is supposed to be. I checked both sides of W1, and found -32V on one side, and 0V on the other. Damn crappy jumpers! After replacing W1 with a wire, I fired everything back up, and the 2 5A fuses glowed birghtly for the couple of seconds before they blew. I checked and found a short (big surprise, huh...) I pulled out the new 7924 I had put in, and the short went away. Replacing the 7924 and 2 5A fuses got me a picture, although it was badly out of focus. I was sure that the wire to the focus divider from the HV transformer was OK, since I had just soldered it the day before, but the wire on the other side of the focus pot had broken. I resoldered it, and I got a nice picture....except, it looks like the purity/convergence/whatever is off (There is a red "shadow" around all text, for instance.) I'll get around to fixing that whenever.... Thanks to all who helped me out with that! Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 7 11:39:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 11:39:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 11:40:13 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: FPGA Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >G'day folks, > >So as long as we are out on RAM tangents, can I ask if there's a 4:1 >ration of DRAM to SRAM how does the recent IBM (or was it Intel) memory >breakthrough of 2 bits per "memory cell" affect this ratio? Can I >assume that it just brings SRAM storage capacity closer to DRAM storage >capacity? The ratio used to be a lot easier to follow earlier on-- 1Kx4 SRAMs were out about the same time 16Kx1 DRAMs were big, 2Kx8's were with 64Kx1's, 8Kx8's were with 256Kx1's, 32Kx8's with 1Mx1's, 128Kx8 with 4Mx1's, 512Kx8 with 16Mx1's. I think DRAM research is really outpacing "standard" SRAM technology now though, so you'd need to be comparing Burst Mode Cache SRAM to those big 64M DRAMs. I don't know if that still "works". >I do understand that the breakthrough applies to flash and I'm just >using the term SRAM interchangeable (and perhaps inappropriately). Right, I dunno for sure what Intel uses for their Flash stuff, but it's probably something like the "Fowler-Nordheim" tunneling that's used in EEPROMs. Anyway, I don't think it'd really apply to the process and deisgn of SRAM cells... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 7 12:28:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 12:28:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: FPGA Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 19:31:04 GMT Message-ID: <34438a23.82341356@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Tue, 7 Oct 1997 09:15:34 -0700, you wrote: >G'day folks, > >So as long as we are out on RAM tangents, can I ask if there's a 4:1 >ration of DRAM to SRAM how does the recent IBM (or was it Intel) memory >breakthrough of 2 bits per "memory cell" affect this ratio? Can I >assume that it just brings SRAM storage capacity closer to DRAM storage >capacity? This "breakthrough" was bit bogus I thought. It only applies to Flash EEPROM, and isn't much of a breakthrough, though it could aid in higher density EEPROM. EEPROMs use a storage cell that acts like a permanently charged = capacitor. In the past the capacitor was either charged, or discharged, a one, or a zero. Intel is now charging the capacitor to 4 different levels representing 00, 01, 10 and 11. It's a neat approach but why isn't it much of a breakthrough? Go to = Radio Shack and buy one of those "record your voice chips". That company was getting some great compression ratios, so I looked into what they were doing. It turns out they're recording analog information into each EEPROM cell. By recording 256 different levels into each EEPROM cell they're = able to store 8 bits of information into each cell, allowing for an 8:1 compression ratio, with little loss, using 8 bit data. Pretty cool, to = bad it only works for EEPROM. I'm assuming the absolute accuracy of each stored values is not good enough for digital storage (or Intel would be claiming 8 bits per cell), but is close enough for audio. These chips have been out for quite awhile, by this time it's no longer a "breakthrough". In an article I read, the extra glue logic needed to = read and write two bits per cell keeps Intel's new memory from being much denser, but they're working on it (I'm sure they'll get something going, = it seems like a nice way of getting more storage out of flash EEPROM). -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 7 13:14:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 13:13:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Posted-Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 14:56:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971007135629.00996a30@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 13:56:30 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: Sega Multigame Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 09:27 AM 10/7/97 -0700, you wrote: >re Frazee.. > >I was in KC last week to see Paul's place. There isn't much >there that I was interested in. I guess what happened was he >bought out a distributor's back room and has been selling it >off over the last year or so. He has a box of random G80 boards >that he said he'd already sold, and a bunch of Williams boards >he had already sold to George at Eldorado. I did see a couple >of Sega spinner assys in the random parts. This was at is 'new >place'.. I didn't go over to the other place where the G05's >were supposed to be. It sounded like the 'Texas posse' cleaned >out anything interesting when they were up there a month ago. > > YES!! Texas posse - I love it. The G80 boards are mine. Quite a collection actually, every game except Zektor, most in multiples. I would love to get a multigame card, but I just might have a working bs for every game after all!!! Anyway, I still have to dig up the 100 bucks for the ESB card :) Mit Matelske From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 7 16:07:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 16:06:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 16:08:02 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Sega control mapping... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Have any of you tried Tac/Scan or Zektor in a Star Trek cabinet? It looks like the controls will work as-is except thrust/fire are backwards. I made a spreadsheet that shows connector pins and IO ports along a single axis and suddenly the wiring is a lot more understandable. :-) Anyway, I'm going to spend a little time with a disassembler and see if I can't "fix" some of this in software. With the exception of the 4 player Eliminator there really isn't any need for having the player inputs all over the place-- Sega was just being difficult. I might be able to hack the binaries and remap the controls at the code level instead of needing extra hardware. I'll let everyone know how it goes... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 7 16:16:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 16:15:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 16:15:34 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega control mapping... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I made a spreadsheet that shows connector pins and IO ports along a single axis and suddenly the wiring is a lot more understandable. :-) Anyway, I'm going to spend a little time with a disassembler and see if I can't "fix" some of this in software. --- Please send me a copy, or put it in a format that I can add to the hardware description on spies, Clay. You probably also want to talk to Dave about getting the CRC algorithm to get the checksums in the modified ROMs to come out right Oh, and modifying the code is the logical thing to do, BTW :-) As long as you're in there, could you fix the spinner speed in the second wave of TAC/SCAN? :-) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 7 19:25:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 19:24:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <343AEF4D.3B161553@willowtree.com> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 21:26:22 -0600 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com" Subject: AY-3-8912 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I found a source that has 400 + pcs of the AY-3-8912 sound chip. As I understand, they are VERY hard to find ? $4.50 each @ 100 pcs, I'd have to ask for smaller quantities, anyone interested & if so how many ? ( I don't wanna buy a 100) Todd From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 7 20:55:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 20:55:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <343B0400.1519A267@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 20:54:41 -0700 From: John Butler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Multigame References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I just send a message to Jess telling him that I would take it. If it is real nice condition then I will keep it for the Space Fury cabinet and do a conversion in there. If I decide to do the Space fury thing I would be interested in your CP. John Butler Al Kossow wrote: > I have a panel from an asteroids->trek conversion, rather than > trashing the one that Jess has.. -- John Butler Mesa, AZ Collector of Classic Arcade Games and Pinball Machines From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 00:29:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 00:29:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <343B2D1D.3E0@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 23:50:05 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: AY-3-8912 References: <343AEF4D.3B161553@willowtree.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Todd Miller wrote: > > I found a source that has 400 + pcs of the AY-3-8912 sound chip. As I understand, > they are VERY hard to find ? $4.50 each @ 100 pcs, I'd have to ask for smaller > quantities, anyone interested & if so how many ? ( I don't wanna buy a 100) > > Todd Hi! I still have a few of these left, $10US each in single quantities... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 09:15:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 09:15:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Chris Cope Message-Id: <199710081614.KAA04467@flatland.dimensional.com> Subject: Re: AY-3-8912 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 10:14:54 -0600 (MDT) In-Reply-To: <343AEF4D.3B161553@willowtree.com> from "Todd Miller" at Oct 7, 97 09:26:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > > I found a source that has 400 + pcs of the AY-3-8912 sound chip. As I understand, > they are VERY hard to find ? $4.50 each @ 100 pcs, I'd have to ask for smaller > quantities, anyone interested & if so how many ? ( I don't wanna buy a 100) > > Todd > > I'd like 10. Let me know what I need to do next. Chris Cope From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 09:47:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 09:47:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: AY-3-8912 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 09:46:31 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day folks, OK what are AY-3-8912's used in? I have vague memories that I need at least one for my Crazy Climber... Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - I wish my mind held on to part numbers longer... >---------- >From: Chris Cope[SMTP:chrisc@dimensional.com] >Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 1997 9:14 AM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Re: AY-3-8912 > >> >> I found a source that has 400 + pcs of the AY-3-8912 sound chip. As I >>understand, >> they are VERY hard to find ? $4.50 each @ 100 pcs, I'd have to ask for >>smaller >> quantities, anyone interested & if so how many ? ( I don't wanna buy a >>100) >> >> Todd >> >> > >I'd like 10. Let me know what I need to do next. > >Chris Cope > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 09:49:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 09:49:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 09:49:38 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: RE: AY-3-8912 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com ..Zektor they are a 28 pin version of the 8910 From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 10:25:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 10:25:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 10:26:06 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Multigame controls... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I fired up the old Z-80 disassembler last night and looked at the code for Tac/Scan, Eliminator, Zektor, and Space Fury. It looks like remapping the controls shouldn't be *too* tough. I'm a little perplexed that Space Fury and Eliminator only make a single read to some locations though... For example-- Space Fury. The code only once looks at input port 0xFA. (0xFA contains the right and left rotate button status.) Doesn't self test check those inputs too? Seems like if it did there'd need to be at least two accesses to 0xFA. Odd. Can you read an I/O port address indirectly on a Z-80? The main problem I'm forseeing with Space Fury and Eliminator is that I probably won't be able to do an in-line patch to the code. Since the Star Trek buttons are on port 0xFC, I need to make a write to 0xF8 to insure I don't read the spinner knob by accident. Since I've got 48K of code space (and since SF and EL don't take it all up), I think I'll just jump off past the end of the game ROM and run my patches there. Shouldn't be too bad. Tac/Scan and Zektor only read 0xFC about a dozen times each. Tac/Scan at least looked pretty obvious about what it was doing since there was always something like: ld a,ff out (f8),a in a,(fc) ... So swapping thrust and fire there shouldn't be too bad hopefully. Anyway, it'll probably take me longer to lash the Star Trek control panel up to the card cage than it'll actually take to make the code changes... ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 10:40:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 10:40:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Multigame controls... Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 17:42:26 GMT Message-ID: <3440c3c9.162647264@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Wed, 8 Oct 1997 10:26:06 -0800, Clay Cowgill wrote: >I fired up the old Z-80 disassembler last night and looked at the code = for >Tac/Scan, Eliminator, Zektor, and Space Fury. > >It looks like remapping the controls shouldn't be *too* tough. I'm a >little perplexed that Space Fury and Eliminator only make a single read = to >some locations though... > >For example-- Space Fury. The code only once looks at input port 0xFA. >(0xFA contains the right and left rotate button status.) Doesn't self = test >check those inputs too? Seems like if it did there'd need to be at = least >two accesses to 0xFA. Odd. Can you read an I/O port address indirectly= on >a Z-80? Yes you can using the 'IN A,(C)' instructions (though there might be some other variations of this instruction). The address of the port is placed in the 'C' register, though in reality the full 16 bits of the BC = register is placed on the address buss, so if you decode the upper 8 bits, and always load the BC-register with the port address, you actually have = 65536 I/O ports available. Though if you do this you must *always* use the 'IN A,(C)' instruction since it's the only instruction which sets the full 16 bits -- which would indicate Sega is only decoding a maximum of 8 bits. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 10:44:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 10:44:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 10:44:45 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: sega I/O Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Did I send you the sources to my simulator, Clay? It's really simple to add code to it to print out every occurance of an I/O access into the debug window. That was the way that I figured out what I/O locations were hit to verify the information in my programming reference. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 10:46:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 10:46:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 10:46:04 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: sega I/O Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You might also want to check with Dave about getting the disassemblies that he had already done for doing the SC-free ROM sets.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 11:03:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 11:03:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 14:03:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Multigame controls... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Wed, 8 Oct 1997, Clay Cowgill wrote: > For example-- Space Fury. The code only once looks at input port 0xFA. > (0xFA contains the right and left rotate button status.) Doesn't self test > check those inputs too? Seems like if it did there'd need to be at least > two accesses to 0xFA. Odd. Can you read an I/O port address indirectly on > a Z-80? >From "Timex Sinclari 2068, 1500, and 1000 Machine Language Programming and Interfacing", page 197: Immediate addressing is available the the accumulator (ie: register A), while the B, C, D, E, H, and L registers use register indirect addressing. The block I/O instructions are also register indirect. In a word -- yes. -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 11:14:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 11:14:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 13:14:08 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: RE: AY-3-8912 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Wed, 8 Oct 1997, Al Kossow wrote: > ..Zektor > > they are a 28 pin version of the 8910 > They are a "lobotomized" version, right? It has the same core as the 8910, but fewer I/O lines, if I recall.... Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 11:18:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 11:18:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 11:18:20 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: RE: AY-3-8912 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com " They are a "lobotomized" version, right? It has the same core as the 8910, but fewer I/O lines, if I recall.... " ..yup I have a low resolution scan of the data sheet on line that I'll put up on spies. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 11:31:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 11:31:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Chris Cope Message-Id: <199710081831.MAA07953@flatland.dimensional.com> Subject: Re: AY-3-8912 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:31:20 -0600 (MDT) In-Reply-To: <199710081614.KAA04467@flatland.dimensional.com> from "Chris Cope" at Oct 8, 97 10:14:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Sorry about sending that to everyone. I hate ELM. Chris From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 11:32:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 11:32:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 13:31:30 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: B/W XY help Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hey all, I'm trying to repair my first B/W XY monitor (it's a WG 19V2000, from my Battlezone,) and have some questions... Symptoms: No picture. Spot Killer isn't lit. I hear clatter in the neck. I already tried replacing the HV diode, and that didn't do it. The 40V input to the HV unit is in the neighborhood (it's actually a little low, but it's in the mid to high 30s so I'm guessing that it's OK) of where it should be. I already checked a bunch of the transistors on the HV unit, especially the outside mounted ones, and they're OK. I still get no picture, though. My next step was going to be to check the Z-amp transistor (Q504, I think it is) but I wanted to see what you guys thought it might be.... Thanks, Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 11:42:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 11:42:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 11:42:37 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: B/W XY help Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com have you checked the other voltages off of the HVT? does it sound like the HV is coming up at all? (if you put the back of your hand to the face of the tube, can you feed any static charge?) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 11:43:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 11:43:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 11:43:15 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: 8910 data sheet Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com ..is up on http://www.spies.com/arcade/schematics/DataSheets/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 11:56:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 11:56:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <343BD8C2.1D4F@an.hp.com> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 15:02:26 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: B/W XY help References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Joe, Make sure you have a glowing filament. I've had several BW vector monitor failures that were simply due to cracked solder joints on the deflection board that connect the AC to the filament. If the filament is glowing, spot killer not lit, and you hear deflection sounds, then check to see if you actually have HV since that's more likely the problem than the Z amp transistor having failed. That is, if after running the monitor for a moment, you unplug it, and "discharge" the tube, do you get a spark as if you were really discharging the tube, or is it quiet (no HV)? Of course, having a probe with a KV meter is the best way to know for sure, though the noise test is usually adequate. The Hv board on this monitor is pretty sparsely populated. It shouldn't take you too long to test each piece of silicon on there if it comes to that. These HV transformers on the BW monitors are fairly robust, so I'd not guess that's the problem, yet. Good luck, Joel- jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote: > > Hey all, > > I'm trying to repair my first B/W XY monitor (it's a WG 19V2000, > from my Battlezone,) and have some questions... > > Symptoms: No picture. Spot Killer isn't lit. I hear clatter in > the neck. I already tried replacing the HV diode, and that didn't do it. > The 40V input to the HV unit is in the neighborhood (it's actually a > little low, but it's in the mid to high 30s so I'm guessing that it's OK) > of where it should be. I already checked a bunch of the transistors on > the HV unit, especially the outside mounted ones, and they're OK. > > I still get no picture, though. My next step was going to be to > check the Z-amp transistor (Q504, I think it is) but I wanted to see what > you guys thought it might be.... > > Thanks, > > Joe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu > Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation > Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin > Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com > P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 12:52:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:52:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on ftpbox.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 14:52:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9710081452.ZM27677@calcite> In-Reply-To: "B/W XY help" (Oct 8, 1:31pm) References: <199710081841.OAA04003@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: B/W XY help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Oct 8, 1:31pm, wrote: > Subject: B/W XY help > > Hey all, > > I'm trying to repair my first B/W XY monitor (it's a WG 19V2000, > from my Battlezone,) and have some questions... > > Symptoms: No picture. Spot Killer isn't lit. I hear clatter in > the neck. I already tried replacing the HV diode, and that didn't do it. > The 40V input to the HV unit is in the neighborhood (it's actually a > little low, but it's in the mid to high 30s so I'm guessing that it's OK) > of where it should be. I already checked a bunch of the transistors on > the HV unit, especially the outside mounted ones, and they're OK. > > I still get no picture, though. My next step was going to be to > check the Z-amp transistor (Q504, I think it is) but I wanted to see what > you guys thought it might be.... Resolder all the header pins on the PCB. Probably just a broken solder joint somewhere (Well, that's how I fixed mine with the same symptoms :-)) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 12:57:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:57:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:58:49 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: sega I/O Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >You might also want to check with Dave about getting >the disassemblies that he had already done for doing >the SC-free ROM sets.. Yeah, Dave and I are using the same disassembler. I'm not too worried about following the code since it's pretty easy. (Eliminator was really obvious-- just loading the accumulator from the IO port and then bit testing to see what was set (or not). I'll drop Dave a message just in case he bothered to comment things or if he was just seek and destroy on SEC RAM accesses... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 13:01:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 13:01:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 13:02:08 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: sega I/O Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Did I send you the sources to my simulator, Clay? >It's really simple to add code to it to print out every >occurance of an I/O access into the debug window. >That was the way that I figured out what I/O locations >were hit to verify the information in my programming >reference. Uhhh, no. I don't think you did. That'd be handy for some other stuff actually. Can I build it with CodeWarrior 9 or 10? (I think that's the latest Mac stuff I have...) As is, I just used a disassembly and searched the whole thing for occurrances of stuff like DB F8 (the DB could be wrong, I don't recall-- it's just the hex equivalent of "IN A,"). I can always just go look for the opcode for IN A,(C)... Source would be handy though if you want to throw it my way. In particular I'd like to see if there are any RAM locations that aren't used (and common) between the games... :-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 13:20:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 13:20:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: sega I/O Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 20:22:49 GMT Message-ID: <3441e80f.171934753@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Wed, 8 Oct 1997 13:02:08 -0800, Clay Cowgill wrote: >>Did I send you the sources to my simulator, Clay? >>It's really simple to add code to it to print out every >>occurance of an I/O access into the debug window. >>That was the way that I figured out what I/O locations >>were hit to verify the information in my programming >>reference. > >Uhhh, no. I don't think you did. That'd be handy for some other stuff >actually. Can I build it with CodeWarrior 9 or 10? (I think that's the >latest Mac stuff I have...) > >As is, I just used a disassembly and searched the whole thing for >occurrances of stuff like DB F8 (the DB could be wrong, I don't recall-- >it's just the hex equivalent of "IN A,"). I can always just go look for >the opcode for IN A,(C)... I looked it up quickly in a Z-280 reference book (a superset of the Z-80, so there's a chance this is wrong, but I believe it to be correct from my old Z-80 days), it looks like your going to have to check for: IN A,(C) IN B,(C) IN C,(C) IN D,(C) IN E,(C) IN H,(C) IN L,(C) IN (addr),(C) IN (HL+dd),(C) IN (IX+dd),(C) IN (IY+dd),(C) And if there doing trick code: IN (IXH),(C) ; load into the high byte of the IX register IN (IXL),(C) ; load into the low byte of the IX register IN (IYH),(C) ; " IY " IN (IYL),(C) ; " IY " The last four instructions were undocumented in the Z-80 programmers reference (but supported by the Z-80), but ARE documented in the Z-280 programmers reference. I doubt if you'll have to worry about these, but then again if you get to the point where there is just nothing left to try... -Zonn =20 > >Source would be handy though if you want to throw it my way. In = particular >I'd like to see if there are any RAM locations that aren't used (and >common) between the games... :-) > >-Clay > >Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager >_______________________________________________________________________ >/\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com >\/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 14:33:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 14:33:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <343BFDAB.6CD8@an.hp.com> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 17:39:55 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: 19VLTP22 vs 19VJPT22 References: <343BD8C2.1D4F@an.hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I'm sorry if this is a repost. I sent something similar last week, but haven't received any replys, nor did I get a confirmation email, so I don't believe it made it to the list. My apologies if you are reading this twice. Does anyone know if the 19VJPT22 tube has a higher resolution (finer dot pitch) than the 19VLTP22 tube? I called up Richardson Electronics to order a 19VLTP22 to replace the tube in my Amplifone. This tube crosses exactly to the Rauland part number commonly found on the Amplifone tubes (M something or other) On my Amplifone schematics, they show that the tube is actually a 19VJPT22. Some DejaNews searching leads me to believe that the pinouts for both tubes are identical. The problem is that this tube I am buying is the last one that Richardsons will ever sell since their manufacturer only has the supplies to make this one tube and has no plans to ever make them again. I was hoping to outfit all of my vector monitors with this tube because the resolution is so nice. Since the VLTP seems to be scarce, I thought I'd find out if the VJTP is any better, and then I'd see if it was more commonly available. Maybe that plan is backwards, but you get the idea. Thanks for any information. Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 8 14:47:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 14:47:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <343C00D3.2419@an.hp.com> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 17:53:23 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: 19VLTP22 vs 19VJPT22 References: <343BD8C2.1D4F@an.hp.com> <343BFDAB.6CD8@an.hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Joel Rosenzweig wrote: > Does anyone know if the 19VJPT22 tube has a higher resolution (finer dot > pitch) than the 19VLTP22 tube? Sorry.. that's 19VJTP22, not 19VJPT22. Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 06:12:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 06:12:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 09 Oct 1997 09:07 EDT To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Gregg Woodcock" Subject: re:19VLTP22 vs 19VJPT22 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In message "19VLTP22 vs 19VJPT22", you write: >Does anyone know if the 19VJPT22 tube has a higher resolution (finer dot >pitch) than the 19VLTP22 tube? I don't think any of us is going to be able to comment but I'd imaginge that the original manufacturer probabaly could still tell you (and they're probably the only ones). >I was hoping to outfit all of my vector monitors with this tube because >the resolution is so nice. There is one more experiment to be made before this is advisable. Yes, I transplanted a set of Wells-Gardner hardware onto an Amplifone tube assembly BUT to do what you are suggesting would require that somebody test the results of transplanting a Wells-Gardner yoke onto an Amplifone tube. The yoke is what determines the pincushioning or barreling and if you wanted to put an Amplifone tube into a Tempest, you'd want to remove the Amplifone yoke and put on a W-G to get rid of the barrelling that would otherwise be present. I have a spare, working W-G yoke (NOS) that I would loan to somebody willing to do this experiment but I have no plans on tesing this myself (but I am 90% sure it will work). -- THANX...Gregg day 972.684.7380 night UNLIST/PUBL TEXAS NOT CANADA! woodcock@nortel.com or woodcock@dfwmm.net *CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)* "If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 06:12:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 06:12:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 09 Oct 1997 09:07 EDT To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Gregg Woodcock" Subject: re:19VLTP22 vs 19VJPT22 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In message "19VLTP22 vs 19VJPT22", you write: >Does anyone know if the 19VJPT22 tube has a higher resolution (finer dot >pitch) than the 19VLTP22 tube? I don't think any of us is going to be able to comment but I'd imaginge that the original manufacturer probabaly could still tell you (and they're probably the only ones). >I was hoping to outfit all of my vector monitors with this tube because >the resolution is so nice. There is one more experiment to be made before this is advisable. Yes, I transplanted a set of Wells-Gardner hardware onto an Amplifone tube assembly BUT to do what you are suggesting would require that somebody test the results of transplanting a Wells-Gardner yoke onto an Amplifone tube. The yoke is what determines the pincushioning or barreling and if you wanted to put an Amplifone tube into a Tempest, you'd want to remove the Amplifone yoke and put on a W-G to get rid of the barrelling that would otherwise be present. I have a spare, working W-G yoke (NOS) that I would loan to somebody willing to do this experiment but I have no plans on tesing this myself (but I am 90% sure it will work). -- THANX...Gregg day 972.684.7380 night UNLIST/PUBL TEXAS NOT CANADA! woodcock@nortel.com or woodcock@dfwmm.net *CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)* "If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 06:57:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 06:57:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Posted-Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 06:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971009085702.00920a10@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 08:57:04 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: On to the experts... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I have reached a stumbling block in repairing my first WG monitor. After replacing a lot on parts, everything seems to be working alright EXCEPT I am missing the bottom 1/4 (or maybe half) of my screen. You're thinking, no problem just replace the appropiate chassis transistors - nope. I've checked them all what seems like a hundred times and they are cool. Any ideas on what else could be wrong? I am not blowing any fuses and the spot killer is not lite. Please help... Mit Matelske From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 07:32:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 07:32:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:32:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: On to the experts... In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971009085702.00920a10@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, Mit Matelske wrote: > I have reached a stumbling block in repairing my first > WG monitor. After replacing a lot on parts, everything > seems to be working alright EXCEPT I am missing the > bottom 1/4 (or maybe half) of my screen. Are you sure it's the monitor, and not the game board ? Example: I had an Asteroids where the screen was squashed to the bottom half of the screen. Nothing was missing, but the picture was half height. Problem was the output buffer for the Y driver on the game board. It was blown and not operating at full frequency response. Result: about half the waveform output -- screen squashed. If you've got a spare of anything, try swapping, or hook a scope to the PCB output. Quick check to keep you from going down a blind alley. If this is too obvious and you've already done it -- please excuse. :-) -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 07:42:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 07:42:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Posted-Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 07:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971009094254.00927d20@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 09:42:55 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: On to the experts... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 10:32 AM 10/9/97 -0400, you wrote: >On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, Mit Matelske wrote: > >> I have reached a stumbling block in repairing my first >> WG monitor. After replacing a lot on parts, everything >> seems to be working alright EXCEPT I am missing the >> bottom 1/4 (or maybe half) of my screen. > >Are you sure it's the monitor, and not the game board ? > >Example: I had an Asteroids where the screen was squashed to the bottom half >of the screen. Nothing was missing, but the picture was half height. Problem >was the output buffer for the Y driver on the game board. It was blown and >not operating at full frequency response. Result: about half the waveform >output -- screen squashed. > >If you've got a spare of anything, try swapping, or hook a scope to the PCB >output. Quick check to keep you from going down a blind alley. > >If this is too obvious and you've already done it -- please excuse. >:-) > Chris- Excellent point!! This WG is for my Tempest, and all the testing had been on my SW cockpit. The monitor sits at the perfect height on some cinder blocks to reach the monitor plug. I'm pretty sure the Tempest boards don't work right anyway :( Mit Matelske From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 09:17:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 09:16:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <343D0491.28F0@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 09:21:37 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: On to the experts... References: <3.0.32.19971009094254.00927d20@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Mit Matelske wrote: > > At 10:32 AM 10/9/97 -0400, you wrote: > >On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, Mit Matelske wrote: > > > >> I have reached a stumbling block in repairing my first > >> WG monitor. After replacing a lot on parts, everything > >> seems to be working alright EXCEPT I am missing the > >> bottom 1/4 (or maybe half) of my screen. > > > >Are you sure it's the monitor, and not the game board ? > > ... An cheap and dirty test of this would be to reverse the X & Y inputs, reduce the output levels before you turn on hte game, but the screen will be a right angles to normal, but at least you can eliminate the board as a suspect. You only need to move two wires on the monitor board to get this result. This is for those of us too lazy to pull out a scope. I would suspect you have missed a cracked solder trace on your monitor mother board. Please resolder ALL the connections on the underside of the monitor motherboard to reomve this lingering doubt. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 09:18:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 09:18:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 09:19:25 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: sega I/O Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >I looked it up quickly in a Z-280 reference book (a superset of the Z-80, >so there's a chance this is wrong, but I believe it to be correct from my >old Z-80 days), it looks like your going to have to check for: > > IN A,(C) [...] > IN (IY+dd),(C) > >And if there doing trick code: [...] Thanks Zonn! I spent several hours digging through the disassemblies last night. I decided to concentrate on Space Fury after getting a feel for all of them. I thought for sure I'd found what I was after: 3A39 DB FB IN A,(FB) ; IN A,(FC) DB FC 3A3B CB 6F BIT 5,A ; fire BIT 3,A CB 5F 3A3D CA A8 3A JP Z,3AA8 ; CA A8 3A 3A40 DB FA IN A,(FA) ; IN A,(FC) DB FC 3A42 CB 67 BIT 4,A ; right BIT 5,A CB 6F 3A44 CA 8A 3A JP Z,3A8A ; CA 8A 3A 3A47 CB 6F BIT 5,A ; left BIT 4,A CB 67 3A49 CA 99 3A JP Z,3A99 ; CA 99 3A 3A4C DB FB IN A,(FB) ; IN A,(FC) DB FC 3A4E CB 67 BIT 4,A ; thrust BIT 2,A CB 57 3A50 20 C0 JR NZ,3A12-$ The mnemonics and opcode data on the right is my patch. Much to my chagrin, the patch didn't work at all! I finally got annoyed and plugged the logic analyzer in (luckily still configured for Z-80 work) and did a trigger on "3A39 DB" (so the LA will start capture on the opcode fetch to 3A39). IT NEVER GETS HIT during game play. Grrrrr... It must be the high-score initials entry routine. Well, hey, maybe that'll be useful later on... ;-) No other places in the code look explicitly at IO ports FA or FB. This morning before I left for work though, I did go look at a suspicious piece of code that was using the indirect IO port read. (in a,(c)) After locating what looked to be the entry points of the routines right around the "IN A,(C)" I started searching the code for calls or jumps into that area. [Sidebar: f---ing Sega. I swear, some of the code in the G-80 stuff is compiler output. Damn spaghetti.] Turns out that the section that's using the indirect IO read (the only one, I might add) is in the IRQ service routine. :-) The bad news is that it's doing some pretty weird bit-gyrations that'll take me a little while longer to figure out. The good news is that it looks like all the games might use this same method for polling the ports during ISR. Still though, it there's a lot of "other" direct calls that might need patching too (like the high-score initials routine above) so this might take a while... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 09:28:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 09:28:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Posted-Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 09:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971009112848.009247f0@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 11:28:49 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: On to the experts... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 09:21 AM 10/9/97 -0700, you wrote: >Mit Matelske wrote: >> >> At 10:32 AM 10/9/97 -0400, you wrote: >> >On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, Mit Matelske wrote: >> > >> >> I have reached a stumbling block in repairing my first >> >> WG monitor. After replacing a lot on parts, everything >> >> seems to be working alright EXCEPT I am missing the >> >> bottom 1/4 (or maybe half) of my screen. >> > >> >Are you sure it's the monitor, and not the game board ? >> > >... > >An cheap and dirty test of this would be to reverse the X & Y inputs, >reduce the output levels before you turn on hte game, but the screen >will be a right angles to normal, but at least you can eliminate the >board as a suspect. You only need to move two wires on the monitor board >to get this result. This is for those of us too lazy to pull out a >scope. >I would suspect you have missed a cracked solder trace on your monitor >mother board. Please resolder ALL the connections on the underside of >the monitor motherboard to reomve this lingering doubt. >John :-#)# >-- > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 > Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." > John- Thanks for the advice!! I'm lazy, but i'll give it a try... Mit From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 09:51:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 09:51:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 12:50:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Tempest Monitor Fixed -- Almost In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com The infamous replacement for D902 finally showed up. Soldered in, and now my WG monitor works, and I'm playing tempest on a bigger than 2 inch scope screen. The monitor appears to need convergance adjustment however. Red/blue don't even come close to lining up at the bottom, though they do at the top. Green seems to be completely off -- the green text seems to flicker like it's interlaced. I've seen this all documented though. However, the whole screen also seems to be at a tlit. This is most evident with the test screen up that is just a box. The box is at an angle -- the horizontal lines obviously aren't. Is there an electronic adjustment for this, or is this fixed by adjusting the yoke. And my second question: All the notes on convergence involve sliding the yoke around while the monitor is turned on. On the one hand, I understand you have to adjust this stuff while it's turned on. On the other hand, I have a bit of trepidation about grabbing the back of a powered-up picture tube. So, what precautions should be used when making these yoke and purity adjustments ? Wear gloves seems obvious. Should the chasis be grounded, or is this only when trying to discharge the tube ? -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 09:58:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 09:58:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971009095917.00916620@mail.teleport.com> X-Sender: luna@mail.teleport.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 09:59:20 -0700 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Chris.Hanks" Subject: Color XY parts wanted Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I'm looking for spare color XY parts! I need mostly WG stuff, but I'd also like to build up a spare Ampliphone set. Please e-mail me what you've got, and how much you'd want for it. Hmmm, maybe we should have a vectorlist-marketplace list? I hope that alot of the tech-talk discussion that left RGVAC will gravitate back to that newsgroup once the .marketplace group gets propogated, otherwise what's the point? From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 10:01:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:01:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:01:01 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Tempest Monitor Fixed -- Almost Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com "So, what precautions should be used when making these yoke and purity adjustments ? Wear gloves seems obvious. Should the chasis be grounded, or is this only when trying to discharge the tube ? " When working around HV, keep one hand in your pocket (..only work with one hand) to avoid the chance of current flow across the chest cavity (..and fibulation). If you're wearing rubber soled shoes in a resonably dry climate, you don't need to insulate your hands (this isn't 440V 3 phase power stuff..) It really is easier to adjust these out of the cabinet, though, since you aren't really going to be able to see what you're doing while you spend the next hour playing with the convergence rings.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 10:24:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:23:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971009101903.00935100@mail.cris.com> X-Sender: wernst@mail.cris.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 10:19:03 -0700 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Warren 'Llama' Ernst" Subject: Re: Tempest Monitor Fixed -- Almost In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 12:50 PM 10/9/97 -0400, you wrote:] >The monitor appears to need convergance adjustment however. Red/blue don't >even come close to lining up at the bottom, though they do at the top. Green >seems to be completely off -- the green text seems to flicker like it's >interlaced. I've seen this all documented though. I'd love to see a discussion about this topic - I;ve always had a hard time imaginining how dangerous this procedure seems. Tell me its not, why, and how to do it, please! Virtually, Warr From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 10:26:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:26:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199710091726.NAA10807@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Tempest Monitor Fixed -- Almost To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 13:26:40 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Christopher X. Candreva" at Oct 9, 97 12:50:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > The monitor appears to need convergance adjustment however. Red/blue don't > even come close to lining up at the bottom, though they do at the top. Green > seems to be completely off -- the green text seems to flicker like it's > interlaced. I've seen this all documented though. Before you do anything with the convergence rings, use something (I forget what is good) to draw a line across the rings and onto the tube. This way if you really screw it up, you can always put them back where they were and start over. Also, there is a good chance that they are already in the neighborhood of where they need to be. ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 10:42:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:42:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 13:42:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Tempest Monitor Fixed -- Almost In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971009101903.00935100@mail.cris.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, Warren 'Llama' Ernst wrote: > I'd love to see a discussion about this topic - I;ve always had a hard time > imaginining how dangerous this procedure seems. Tell me its not, why, and > how to do it, please! How, as in procedure, is documented in the FAQ. Those notes are, I think, taken from the Wells-Gardner/Temptest manual. There is a PDF version out there someplace (I think I have a link to it at http://www.westnet.com/~chris/arcade/ -- either the files are still there, or the link is in link.html). How, as in how without killing yourself, is a bit more sketchy. Most of the notes I've read started with "Make sure everything is unpluged and you have discharged the HV charge first", which made me think it didn't apply in this situation. :-) -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 10:47:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:47:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 13:47:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Tempest Monitor Fixed -- Almost In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, Al Kossow wrote: > cavity (..and fibulation). If you're wearing rubber soled shoes > in a resonably dry climate, you don't need to insulate your hands > (this isn't 440V 3 phase power stuff..) No -- its 19Kv. I assumed, though, that it was worse than dealing with high-power AC. Am I wrong, because the current is so much less ? > It really is easier to adjust these out of the cabinet, though, > since you aren't really going to be able to see what you're doing > while you spend the next hour playing with the convergence rings.. I was planning on having my wife stand in front, and tell me what was happening. Frankly, even with the monitor out, I would want my head behind looking at what I was doing, not looking at the screen with my hands inside. (Luckily, my wife LOVES playing these games. She'll sit down for "one game of Asteroids" after throwing in a load of laundry, and still be there an hour later.) -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 10:55:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:55:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 13:55:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Tempest Monitor Fixed -- Almost In-Reply-To: <199710091726.NAA10807@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, Paul Kahler wrote: > Before you do anything with the convergence rings, use something (I forget > what is good) to draw a line across the rings and onto the tube. This Soft pencil ? Chalk ? One question that hasn't been answered yet: Do I work on the problem of the picture not being square by turning the yoke ? The notes talk about sliding the yoke, but I didn't see any mention of turning it. ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 10:58:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:58:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 12:57:46 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Tempest Monitor Fixed -- Almost In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, Christopher X. Candreva wrote: > No -- its 19Kv. I assumed, though, that it was worse than dealing with > high-power AC. Am I wrong, because the current is so much less ? Right, current is what kills you (it actually doesn't take that much, though.....) and, like Al mentioned, current from arm to arm is the worst, because it can cause heart fibrulation (sp?) Line voltage is particularly bad becuase 50 - 60 Hz is somehow magically the worst frequency for causing heart fibrulation, I think. Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 11:10:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 11:10:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 13:09:03 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Tempest Monitor Fixed -- Almost In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, Christopher X. Candreva wrote: > On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, Paul Kahler wrote: > > > Before you do anything with the convergence rings, use something (I forget > > what is good) to draw a line across the rings and onto the tube. This > > Soft pencil ? Chalk ? > > One question that hasn't been answered yet: Do I work on the problem of the > picture not being square by turning the yoke ? The notes talk about sliding > the yoke, but I didn't see any mention of turning it. For all of these adjustments, you have to both slide and tilt the yoke. In addition to Gregg's FAQ, I'd suggest checking out the sci.electronics.repair faq, specifically the part about TV repair. It goes into all this stuff. One of the reason it gives for a tilted picture is "Yoke Moved." In fact, the only thing that you may need to adjust to get your convergence and tilted picture back to normal is probably the yoke. Try leaving the magnets alone and just messing with the yoke first... Joe BTW: You can take a look at the sci.electronics.repair faq at: http://www.paranoia.com/~filipg/REPAIR/Repair.html From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 11:34:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 11:33:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RGVA.marketplace Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 11:32:15 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day folks, Even when RGVAM is created, it'll take a couple months for the RGVAC readership to shift over to RGVAM. I'm guessing that I (and others) will be gentle persuading people to shift all through November and December. Then in the new year, the persuasion won't be so subtle. (Hey, Guido, come talk to this guy....) If we are still having problems towards the end of NEXT year, I'll be suggesting moderation in some form or another....but let's hope we don't have to get to that point! Moderation for RGVAM, if spammers make the group unusable. Moderation for RGVAC, if a minority of the RGVAC readership won't migrate to RGVAM for their commerce related activities. Obviously, if the majority of RGVAC readers won't migrate to RGVAM by the end of 1998 then there's very little that can be done. RGVAM will just have to languish unused. However, I doubt this would end up happening since RGVAM only came into existence after 132 readers of RGVAC asked for it. I'm assuming 132 represents a majority of active readers in RGVAC (and I'm assuming that mainly active readers voted). ObVector: Did Joe end up setting a deal for that Barrier from John Robertson? If so, Joe (and Zonn), I've heard there are some similarities between Barrier and Star Hawk....would it be worth looking into modifying Star Hawk sound boards to play Barrier sounds? Yes, Clay, I do realize that we could probably take sound samples of Barrier, put a 486 in the cabinet and hook it up to the speaker! Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - Much of my motivation for creating RGVAM was so tech talk could return to RGVAC. I would have liked to create RGVA.tech, but I wonder if there's enough traffic to merit a new newsgroup? Beside, it'd be much more appropriate for Clay, David Fish, Zonn, Al or Joe (or any other of the many hackers on this list) to create RGVA.tech, eh? I'll be happy to help out in creating RGVA.tech if anyone wants to step forward and go through the meat-grin...newsgroup creation process. You just need 150 people who you can rely on for YES votes! Well, that and alot of patience.... Actually, now that RGVAC has been splintered into two newsgroups, I think it'll be easier to spin off parts of the RGVAC discussion. >---------- >From: Chris.Hanks[SMTP:luna@teleport.com] >Sent: Thursday, October 09, 1997 9:59 AM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Color XY parts wanted > >I'm looking for spare color XY parts! I need mostly WG >stuff, but I'd also like to build up a spare Ampliphone set. >Please e-mail me what you've got, and how much you'd want for it. > >Hmmm, maybe we should have a vectorlist-marketplace list? >I hope that alot of the tech-talk discussion that left RGVAC >will gravitate back to that newsgroup once the .marketplace >group gets propogated, otherwise what's the point? > > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 15:07:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 15:06:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 18:06:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Tempest Monitor Fixed -- Almost In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Thanks to all the people who responded. I've adjusted the yoke, and the screen is now fairly plumb. I say fairly, because some lines seem to just not be quite there. However, it does not seem like the convergance could every be correct on this monitor, because the deflection seems to be different on all three colors. When it draws a white box around the screen, what actually shows up are three concentric boxes: with red on the outside and blue on the inside. So, while you can adjust the convergance at the center, the errors get worse as you go out. Is there an adujstment for this -- I've yet to find it. -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 15:14:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 15:14:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 18:14:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Rubber Wedges ?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I think I just found my answer -- this is where you stick the rubber wedges under the yoke ? Of course, in my boxes of miscelanious parts, rubber wedges are not something I keep around. :-( -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 16:19:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 16:19:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <343D66E5.63EF8847@willowtree.com> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 18:21:11 -0600 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com" Subject: Suggestions on prices Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I'v worked out a deal with an operator to part out some machines. I'm doing this in my spare time, so I don't have time to repair/check everything. All parts should available to sell, except maybe the Harder stuff to ship like monitors or the whole machine. I know most hate the 'make offer', so should I just go with a flate rate like; coin doors $10, wiring harness $20, Marque's & power supplies $25, control panels $40, PCB's $50-$100 (and what if I can't test, then how much ?) LMK what you think suggested prices should be. I don't want to spam this list so, I'll ask first.. may I post the list of machines here first, before I go to the general public/Usenet ? Thanks Todd From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 16:23:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 16:23:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 16:23:06 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Suggestions on prices Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I assume these are vector games that are getting parted out... From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 16:41:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 16:41:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <343D6C14.AEB8E72B@willowtree.com> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 18:43:17 -0600 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Suggestions on prices References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com about 25% Al Kossow wrote: > I assume these are vector games that are getting parted out... From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 17:05:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 17:05:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: Suggestions on prices To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 19:04:05 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: <343D6C14.AEB8E72B@willowtree.com> from "Todd Miller" at Oct 9, 97 06:43:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <343d7f050.1f85@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 311 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > about 25% I'm cool with a listing (complete). Or just email it to me.. Kurt /* * This version of Kurt Mahan is currently being evaluated. Words he speaks * are those of him only and not those of Novell or anybody else. * * Novell Java Technologies R&D Group * * Kurt Mahan * kmahan@novell.com */ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 17:32:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 17:31:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <343D77E0.35F5880@willowtree.com> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 19:33:37 -0600 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Suggestions on prices References: <343d7f050.1f85@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com most games complete, I just did a quick look today to make up a list. If there's an interest, I'll go back & check them out closer for completeness or details on parts your looking for ,FWIW I'm in Iowa. Cosmic Chasm, Cinematronics Space Wars, Cinematronics Rip Off, Cinematronics Lunar Lander, Atari Star Ship One, Atari Grand Track 10, Atari SteepleChase, Atari Asteroids, ur several Frogger Centipede SuperGlob ? Time Pilot 1942 Demolition Derby, Chicago Coin Road Runner, Bally Avenger, Electra Flying Fortress, Electra Ball Park, Midway Gun Fight, Midway several Space Race, not complete TV Ping Pong, Chicago Coin...several Elimination, Kee Cocktail Space Invaders, cocktail Space Invaders, ur Gun Fight Blockade Todd Kurt Mahan wrote: > > about 25% > > I'm cool with a listing (complete). Or just email it to me.. > > Kurt > > /* > * This version of Kurt Mahan is currently being evaluated. Words he speaks > * are those of him only and not those of Novell or anybody else. > * > * Novell Java Technologies R&D Group > * > * Kurt Mahan > * kmahan@novell.com > */ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 9 19:05:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 19:05:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199710100204.WAA17088@vela.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Emulator: Star Castle (Available) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:04:48 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Clay Cowgill" at Oct 7, 97 11:40:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hello everyone! Good new! Good News! I just posted the most recent version of the Paul & Kurt Cinematronics emulator to my web page. It only runs Star Castle at this time. It's got the color overlay and cheap sounds. I've been telling people "soon" for 3 years now, so it's about time something happened. (unless I put up a corrupted zip file or something :-) So spread the word and by all means have fun with it! HTTP://www.oakland.edu/~phkahler BTW, We're not going to release something that can play all the games yet, as we are still hoping to make a buck or two. So until our patience runs out this will have to do... BTW2 I'm planning to write a portable "C" version of the CPU for integration into....stuff. Sorry Clay, ours won't run on 486-33. Thanks for your patience in this matter, ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 04:17:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 04:17:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 07:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710101116.HAA05524@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: fishd Subject: WTD:Cinematronics PROMs (82S123,129, etc.)image Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hi Folks, After using Steve's Cine' Exorcisor to debug a few CPU boards I've found that I'm in need of the images for the Bipolar PROMs. The one I need specifically is J14 (2090). The part isn't socketed on any of the boards I have. Have these images been archived and, if so, can I get a copy? Thanks in advance. David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! fishd@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 08:04:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:04:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:03:17 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: WTD:Cinematronics PROMs (82S123,129, etc.)image In-Reply-To: <199710101116.HAA05524@mailrelay.tiac.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, fishd wrote: > Hi Folks, > > After using Steve's Cine' Exorcisor to debug a few CPU > boards I've found that I'm in need of the images for the > Bipolar PROMs. The one I need specifically is J14 (2090). > The part isn't socketed on any of the boards I have. Have > these images been archived and, if so, can I get a copy? > Thanks in advance. > These are archived on ftp.tant.com, as well as its mirrors. They are in the set of ROM images for Rip Off. If you have trouble finding them, drop me an email, and I'll get them to you (I have a copy of them around here somewhere....BUT I got my copy from tant...) Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 08:06:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:06:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:06:26 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: WTD:Cinematronics PROMs (82S123,129, etc.)image Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com " If you have trouble finding them, drop me an email, and I'll get them to you (I have a copy of them around here somewhere....BUT I got my copy from tant...) " unfortunately, there was a hacker break in on ftp.tant.com about a month ago, and ftp service is no longer available. try Brian Peek's site @ http://www.vu.union.edu/~peekb/arcade/index.html From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 08:23:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:23:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:24:19 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Emulator: Star Castle (Available) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >BTW2 I'm planning to write a portable "C" version of the CPU for >integration into....stuff. Sorry Clay, ours won't run on 486-33. How much CPU do you need? What percentage time is spent in screnn drawing code? (It's likely any... 'er... "stuff" would have some sort of low-cpu-use vector drawing card in it...) 486-66's are pretty cheap too. ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 08:35:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:35:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: Suggestions on prices Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:33:44 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day folks, Quite a haul! I don't think you'll have any trouble selling half a dozen of the vectors below to folks on the vector list. Of course, you've just given away my best hunting grounds for old vector games, though I never did run across a Sundance in Iowa. Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - Is the Eliminator cocktail, two or four player? >---------- >From: Todd Miller[SMTP:litterbox@willowtree.com] >Sent: Thursday, October 09, 1997 6:33 PM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Re: Suggestions on prices > >most games complete, I just did a quick look today to make up a list. >If there's an interest, I'll go back & check them out closer for completeness >or details on parts your looking for ,FWIW I'm in Iowa. > >Cosmic Chasm, Cinematronics >Space Wars, Cinematronics >Rip Off, Cinematronics >Lunar Lander, Atari >Star Ship One, Atari >Grand Track 10, Atari >SteepleChase, Atari >Asteroids, ur several >Frogger >Centipede >SuperGlob ? >Time Pilot >1942 >Demolition Derby, Chicago Coin >Road Runner, Bally >Avenger, Electra >Flying Fortress, Electra >Ball Park, Midway >Gun Fight, Midway several >Space Race, not complete >TV Ping Pong, Chicago Coin...several >Elimination, Kee Cocktail >Space Invaders, cocktail >Space Invaders, ur >Gun Fight >Blockade > > >Todd > > >Kurt Mahan wrote: > >> > about 25% >> >> I'm cool with a listing (complete). Or just email it to me.. >> >> Kurt >> >> /* >> * This version of Kurt Mahan is currently being evaluated. Words he >>speaks >> * are those of him only and not those of Novell or anybody else. >> * >> * Novell Java Technologies R&D Group >> * >> * Kurt Mahan >> * kmahan@novell.com >> */ > > > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 08:40:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:40:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:40:22 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: G80 raster ROM images Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Someone just emailed me looking for ROM images for the G80 raster games (005, Monster Bash, Space Odyssey). Sounds like he's trying to un-SC them. Has anyone archived these? I know Clay has Astro Blaster, and it sounded like that was the one the guy was working on. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 08:58:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:58:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <343E5D6F.48A@32767willowtree.com> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:53:03 -0600 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Suggestions on prices References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Ozdemir, Steve wrote: > > G'day folks, > > Quite a haul! I don't think you'll have any trouble selling half a > dozen of the vectors below to folks on the vector list. Of course, > you've just given away my best hunting grounds for old vector games, > though I never did run across a Sundance in Iowa. > > Steven S Ozdemir > sso@dsc.com > > ps - Is the Eliminator cocktail, two or four player? > I thought it was Eliminator at first also, but its Elimination by Kee ? -- Spam block, remove 32767's from e-mail address: Thanks Todd From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 09:16:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:16:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on ftpbox.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:15:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9710101115.ZM5810@calcite> In-Reply-To: aek@ftpbox.mot.com (Al Kossow) "G80 raster ROM images" (Oct 10, 8:40am) References: <199710101548.LAA09975@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: G80 raster ROM images Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Oct 10, 8:40am, Al Kossow wrote: > Subject: G80 raster ROM images > > Someone just emailed me looking for ROM images for the G80 > raster games (005, Monster Bash, Space Odyssey). Sounds > like he's trying to un-SC them. Has anyone archived these? > I know Clay has Astro Blaster, and it sounded like that > was the one the guy was working on. Paul Tonizzo probably has all of these archived, as I sent him all the raster G-80 stuff I have. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 09:34:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:34:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199710101635.MAA12362@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Emulator: Star Castle (Available) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:35:14 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Clay Cowgill" at Oct 10, 97 08:24:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >BTW2 I'm planning to write a portable "C" version of the CPU for > >integration into....stuff. Sorry Clay, ours won't run on 486-33. > > How much CPU do you need? What percentage time is spent in screnn drawing > code? (It's likely any... 'er... "stuff" would have some sort of > low-cpu-use vector drawing card in it...) > > 486-66's are pretty cheap too. ;-) Ya, I upgraded my 33 to a 66 for $28 about a year ago. The old DOS version ran good (never checked if it was full speed for sure) on that machine. That was with the ASM CPU core. I talked to Zonn a little about flag handling & I've got a couple other things to try, so we shall see. The C-CPU needs to run near 1.8 MIPS & last time I checked a 486-33 it was running at 17MIPS (that was writing to slow VGA ram though). As for vector drawing, it didn't used to be a big percent of execution time, but with more optimizations, it will be a bigger chunk :-) BTW, the windows version actually uses GDI to draw & erase vectors right before your eyes! No double buffering & a stable display :-) well almost... -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 09:37:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:37:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:36:59 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Emulator: Star Castle (Available) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com "No double buffering & a stable display :-) well almost..." It even works with softwindows on a PowerMac :-) Interesting flicker-pattern to the vector draws, too ;-) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 09:51:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:51:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199710101652.MAA11886@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Emulator: Star Castle (Available) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:52:04 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Al Kossow" at Oct 10, 97 09:36:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > "No double buffering & a stable display :-) well almost..." > > It even works with softwindows on a PowerMac :-) > Interesting flicker-pattern to the vector draws, too ;-) Ya! someone tried it ;-) I usually see one vector flicker every now & then. If you can see a pattern to it, something isn't right - like you need to downgrade to a PC :-) -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 10:24:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:24:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 10 Oct 1997 13:21 EDT To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Mark Shostak" Subject: re:WTD:Cinematronics PROMs (82S123,129, etc.)image Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hi David, I'm glad to hear you got the Exorcisor working! What can you tell us about it? How much coverage does it give, how much of the board has to be working to use it, etc.? Also, did you get docs or just figure it out? BTW, have you and Al gotten the Cine' Exorcisor schematics up on the web? Cheers, Mark In message "WTD:Cinematronics PROMs (82S123,129, etc.)image", fishd@tiac.net writes: > Hi Folks, > > After using Steve's Cine' Exorcisor to debug a few CPU > boards I've found that I'm in need of the images for the > Bipolar PROMs. The one I need specifically is J14 (2090). > The part isn't socketed on any of the boards I have. Have > these images been archived and, if so, can I get a copy? > Thanks in advance. > > David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION > Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! > fishd@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" > dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 11:00:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:00:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:01:24 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Z-80 simulator Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hi all, Still playing with "converting" the deviant games (Eliminator/Space Fury) to the more Star Trek-like control wiring. I found a kinda neat simulator for playing with Z-80 code. http://barleywood.com It's a windows based simulator, but has a built in memory watch, assembler, editor, etc. The register window is pretty nifty with little "leds" for each bit in every register as well as decimal and hex displays. You can single-step, intercept IO reads/writes, set breakpoints, etc. I couldn't get it to install at home, but it seems to like my machine here at work. I got the Space Fury interrupt code running in it with a minimum of fuss. (Mostly just a matter of figuring out that hex numbers starting with A-F need to be preceded with a "0".) Pretty cool. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 14:36:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:36:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 17:35:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710102135.RAA12000@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: fishd Subject: Re: G80 raster ROM images Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 08:40 AM 10/10/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Someone just emailed me looking for ROM images for the G80 >raster games (005, Monster Bash, Space Odyssey). Sounds >like he's trying to un-SC them. Has anyone archived these? >I know Clay has Astro Blaster, and it sounded like that >was the one the guy was working on. > Over the past couple of weeks I've been in contact with someone (who's name escapes me at the moment) who is actively 'un-SC'ing Astro Blaster. I gave him copies of the tables I have (Thanks again Zonn!) and in return he's keeping me up to date with his progress. It looks like the SC algorithim is the same as the XY SC's, the difference is that AB looks to have about 500 bytes that need to be patched. Yikes! He claims to now have it partially working. I think this is great since I had no desire to do it ;-) David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! fishd@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 14:43:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:43:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 17:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710102143.RAA12722@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: fishd Subject: Re: WTD:Cinematronics PROMs (82S123,129, etc.)image Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 10:03 AM 10/10/97 -0500, you wrote: > >On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, fishd wrote: > >> Hi Folks, >> >> After using Steve's Cine' Exorcisor to debug a few CPU >> boards I've found that I'm in need of the images for the >> Bipolar PROMs. The one I need specifically is J14 (2090). >> The part isn't socketed on any of the boards I have. Have >> these images been archived and, if so, can I get a copy? >> Thanks in advance. >> > > These are archived on ftp.tant.com, as well as its mirrors. They >are in the set of ROM images for Rip Off. > > If you have trouble finding them, drop me an email, and I'll get >them to you (I have a copy of them around here somewhere....BUT I got my >copy from tant...) > >Joe > I just downloaded the Ripoff.zip file from Union but it only contained the four EPROM images. Does anyone have a copy of the TANT version that they could e-mail to me? TIA. David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! fishd@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 15:12:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 15:12:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 15:12:43 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: G80 raster ROM images Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com "Over the past couple of weeks I've been in contact with someone (who's name escapes me at the moment) who is actively 'un-SC'ing Astro Blaster." yes, this is the same person who asked me for the images.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 15:17:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 15:17:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 15:17:23 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: cine J14 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com isn't this image in zonn's cineinst.zip file? There are 6 PROM.xx files in there.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 15:20:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 15:20:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 15:20:13 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: PROM.J14 contents Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com EC F4 F4 E4 EC FC FC EC EF F2 F2 E2 EE FC FA EE EC F4 E4 F4 EC FC E4 F4 EE F2 E2 F2 EC FC E4 F4 From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 17:53:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 17:53:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 17:52:57 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: mac sega vector sim sources Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In case my mail message doesn't make it there because of it being 900k, i've placed a hqx file of the sources with a pre-built binary of the version with the memory display enabled on: ftp://www.spies.com/pub/incoming/segaEmRDisp.sit.Hqx I'll leave it there for a week or so, if anyone else wants to pick it up.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 21:17:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:17:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 00:16:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Tempest Fixed ! In-Reply-To: <199710091726.NAA10807@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Thanks to all who offered help on getting my Tempest monitor working again ! While I rememberd the game, and have even seen it on MS Arcade recently, I forgot the whole effect of the machine. Specificly the way the colors look through the tinted glass. Next project: read up on all those "suggested modifications"to make a Tempest monitor "trouble free (yeah right)", as the FAQ says. My only problem now is, I can't get my wife off the damn machine ! After all that work, I've still played Asteroids most of the night ! -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 10 21:28:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 21:28:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: Tempest Fixed ! To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 22:31:21 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: from "Christopher X. Candreva" at Oct 11, 97 00:16:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <343f011a0.5739@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 660 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > While I rememberd the game, and have even seen it on MS Arcade recently, I > forgot the whole effect of the machine. Specificly the way the colors look > through the tinted glass. Don't forget to pump the sound through your stereo and turn the bass WAY up. It helps with the "proper" experience.. Not as much fun as Space Duel vibrating your house to pieces, but still terrifying to any small animals living there.. :) Kurt /* * This version of Kurt Mahan is currently being evaluated. Words he speaks * are those of him only and not those of Novell or anybody else. * * Novell Java Technologies R&D Group * * Kurt Mahan * kmahan@novell.com */ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Oct 11 08:58:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 08:57:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971011085555.008dc900@mail.cris.com> X-Sender: wernst@mail.cris.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 08:55:55 -0700 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Warren 'Llama' Ernst" Subject: Re: Tempest Fixed ! In-Reply-To: <343f011a0.5739@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 10:31 PM 10/10/97 -0600, you wrote: >> While I rememberd the game, and have even seen it on MS Arcade recently, I >> forgot the whole effect of the machine. Specificly the way the colors look >> through the tinted glass. > >Don't forget to pump the sound through your stereo and turn the bass >WAY up. It helps with the "proper" experience.. Not as much fun as >Space Duel vibrating your house to pieces, but still terrifying to >any small animals living there.. :) Interesting. While perhaps said in jest, I've been wondering how to go about doing this. Space Duel would indeed vibrate the place apart - just what I'm looking for! Virtually, Warr From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Oct 11 09:20:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:19:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 12:19:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Tempest Fixed ! In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971011085555.008dc900@mail.cris.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Sat, 11 Oct 1997, Warren 'Llama' Ernst wrote: > >Don't forget to pump the sound through your stereo and turn the bass > >WAY up. It helps with the "proper" experience.. Not as much fun as > > Interesting. While perhaps said in jest, I've been wondering how to go > about doing this. Space Duel would indeed vibrate the place apart - just Easiest way would be to jump off the speaker outputs, though you would have to keep the volume on the machine itself way down. The machine I just fixed had a (badly installed) jummper cable hacked into the wiring that ran up to the top of the cab. It was such a kludge however I took it out and cleaned up the wiring. The speaker on my machine, however, isn't original. It looks like a single, oval speaker mounted face-down in the little drawer where the light is, but it's actually a 3-way car speaker -- with a midrange and tweeter in the big woofer. Somehow, I don't think that's original. :-) -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Oct 11 09:44:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:43:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: Tempest Fixed ! Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:42:42 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day Chris, Just some advice from those of us who's wives hate arcade games. Nurture this Tempest thing that your wife has. If it blossoms, you might even find the Tempest in your bedroom somewhere down the road! (I won't go into what you do with a Tempest in your bedroom...) Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com >---------- >From: Christopher X. Candreva[SMTP:chris@westnet.com] >Sent: Friday, October 10, 1997 9:16 PM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Tempest Fixed ! > > >Thanks to all who offered help on getting my Tempest monitor working again ! > >While I rememberd the game, and have even seen it on MS Arcade recently, I >forgot the whole effect of the machine. Specificly the way the colors look >through the tinted glass. > >Next project: read up on all those "suggested modifications"to make a >Tempest monitor "trouble free (yeah right)", as the FAQ says. > >My only problem now is, I can't get my wife off the damn machine ! After all >that work, I've still played Asteroids most of the night ! > >-Chris > >========================================================== >Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 >WestNet Internet Services of Westchester >http://www.westnet.com/ > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Oct 11 09:45:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 09:44:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: Tempest Fixed ! To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 10:47:29 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971011085555.008dc900@mail.cris.com> from "Warren 'Llama' Ernst" at Oct 11, 97 08:55:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <343fada10.6d40@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1022 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >Don't forget to pump the sound through your stereo and turn the bass > >WAY up. It helps with the "proper" experience.. Not as much fun as > >Space Duel vibrating your house to pieces, but still terrifying to > >any small animals living there.. :) > > Interesting. While perhaps said in jest, I've been wondering how to go > about doing this. Space Duel would indeed vibrate the place apart - just > what I'm looking for! The way I do it is I've got a little box from Radio Shack that is used for converting a car stereo output back into a line feed for feeding into an amp. So then you can feed the outputs back into your LINE IN and the box has taken care of level and impedance stuff. Also very useful for when you are digitizing sounds.. (and yes -- I actually do this!) Kurt /* * This version of Kurt Mahan is currently being evaluated. Words he speaks * are those of him only and not those of Novell or anybody else. * * Novell Java Technologies R&D Group * * Kurt Mahan * kmahan@novell.com */ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Oct 11 10:22:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 10:21:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 13:20:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: Tempest Fixed ! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Sat, 11 Oct 1997, Ozdemir, Steve wrote: > Just some advice from those of us who's wives hate arcade games. > Nurture this Tempest thing that your wife has. If it blossoms, you > might even find the Tempest in your bedroom somewhere down the road! (I > won't go into what you do with a Tempest in your bedroom...) I don't think it'll go quite that far. :-) She tells me she was never allowed to play them when she was a kid. So I guess she's making up for it now. I guess I am lucky -- the only restrictions I've been given is she wants curtains on all the windows before we get any more games, and the next one has to be Centipede. -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Oct 11 14:54:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 14:54:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 17:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710112154.RAA24835@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: fishd Subject: Re: cine J14 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 03:17 PM 10/10/97 -0700, you wrote: > >isn't this image in zonn's cineinst.zip file? There >are 6 PROM.xx files in there.. > Yes, they are there but I had forgotten. I also found the images in a .tar file along with warrior images. Thanks for sending the image Al. Interesting find #1 - I replaced the PROM at J14 with a National 74S288AJ, it's suppose to be equivalent. When installed there was still one output signature that was unstable. I replaced the part with a Signetics 82S123 and everythings fine now. Hmmmm... Signature Analysis makes fixing these Cin'e CPU's a piece o'cake. David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! fishd@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Oct 11 18:10:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 18:10:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199710120109.VAA11602@vela.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Tempest Fixed ! To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 21:09:36 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Christopher X. Candreva" at Oct 11, 97 01:20:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > > Just some advice from those of us who's wives hate arcade games. > > Nurture this Tempest thing that your wife has. If it blossoms, you > > might even find the Tempest in your bedroom somewhere down the road! (I > > won't go into what you do with a Tempest in your bedroom...) My wife likes games too (she's in VAPS) but the Tempest stays in the basement (under the bedroom). I wouldn't want any confusion about spikes or flyin' down the hole or anything... Did I just say that? No, must be imagining things. > I don't think it'll go quite that far. :-) > > She tells me she was never allowed to play them when she was a kid. So I > guess she's making up for it now. I guess I am lucky -- the only > restrictions I've been given is she wants curtains on all the windows before > we get any more games, and the next one has to be Centipede. If she never played as a kid, how does she know she likes centipede? Hmmm? By all means, get her a game of her own :-) Then she won't complain about all the other ones. -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Oct 12 19:11:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:11:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: cine J14 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 02:13:31 GMT Message-ID: <34458387.107137228@tommy.doctord.com> References: <199710112154.RAA24835@mailrelay.tiac.net> In-Reply-To: <199710112154.RAA24835@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 17:54:04 -0400 (EDT), fishd wrote: >At 03:17 PM 10/10/97 -0700, you wrote: >> >>isn't this image in zonn's cineinst.zip file? There >>are 6 PROM.xx files in there.. >> >Yes, they are there but I had forgotten. I also found >the images in a .tar file along with warrior images. >Thanks for sending the image Al. > >Interesting find #1 - I replaced the PROM at J14 with >a National 74S288AJ, it's suppose to be equivalent. >When installed there was still one output signature >that was unstable. I replaced the part with a Signetics >82S123 and everythings fine now. Hmmmm... > >Signature Analysis makes fixing these Cin'e CPU's a >piece o'cake. Cool! I want one! Were you plan on laying out a PCB based on Steve's? -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 13 08:40:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:39:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:39:18 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: cine J14 In-Reply-To: <34458387.107137228@tommy.doctord.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Zonn wrote: > >Signature Analysis makes fixing these Cin'e CPU's a > >piece o'cake. > > Cool! I want one! Were you plan on laying out a PCB based on Steve's? > Another question is how easy to find, and how costly the HP Signature Analyzers that are designed to be used with that board are... Anyone have any insight on that one? Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 13 08:45:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:45:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:45:17 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: cine J14 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I've seen them for under $100. There were bunches of them around about a year ago, but the only one i've seen lately is at Ace Electronics on Berger Rd in San Jose. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 13 09:12:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:12:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: Tempest Fixed ! Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:10:40 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day folks, Centipede...well, it isn't vector, but it seems like a small price to pay for marital bliss, Chris. As to Paul's comments below, someone must have broken into his account (and found out that Deanne is the only female VAPS member...or was the first female VAPS member, I forget?). Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - I never got my wife the Robotron that she asked for....oh, was that a mistake! >---------- >From: Paul Kahler[SMTP:phkahler@Oakland.edu] >Sent: Saturday, October 11, 1997 7:09 PM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Re: Tempest Fixed ! > >> > Just some advice from those of us who's wives hate arcade games. >> > Nurture this Tempest thing that your wife has. If it blossoms, you >> > might even find the Tempest in your bedroom somewhere down the road! (I >> > won't go into what you do with a Tempest in your bedroom...) > >My wife likes games too (she's in VAPS) but the Tempest stays in >the basement (under the bedroom). I wouldn't want any confusion >about spikes or flyin' down the hole or anything... Did I just say >that? No, must be imagining things. > >> I don't think it'll go quite that far. :-) >> >> She tells me she was never allowed to play them when she was a kid. So I >> guess she's making up for it now. I guess I am lucky -- the only >> restrictions I've been given is she wants curtains on all the windows >>before >> we get any more games, and the next one has to be Centipede. > >If she never played as a kid, how does she know she likes centipede? Hmmm? >By all means, get her a game of her own :-) Then she won't complain about >all the other ones. >-- > ___ __ _ _ _ >| \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer >| _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? >|_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 13 09:27:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:27:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: cine J14 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:25:56 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day David (and all), >Signature Analysis makes fixing these Cin'e CPU's a >piece o'cake. Now this is what I wanted to hear, David! Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 13 09:35:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:34:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 13 Oct 1997 12:33 EDT To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Mark Shostak" Subject: Red Baron ROMs Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com While repairing a Red Baron this weekend I added some notes to my service manual and thought I'd share them, as they may save you some time in the future. This note will come in handy because the information does not appear to be documented on any of the Atari info home pages. Apparently the original Red Baron boards used the Battle Zone AVG board. However, this board supported only six (6) sockets for program ROM. Since RB uses more ROM than the board could hold, they installed a larger (4k) ROM in one of the sockets. This mod is documented on the Atari info pages. The board I worked on this weekend had the same p/n as the BZ AVG, however it contained SEVEN ROM sockets. The extra socket (P1) let them use 2k roms in all locations and got rid of the barnacle. The following table shows the delta between the two boards, including the new rom p/n's and checksums: RB chksum BZ ----- ------ ----- E1 = 37001 0x65BF 37000 H1 = 37000 37587 J1 = 36999 0x24D9 36998 K1 = 36998 36997 L/M1 = 36997 36996 N1 = 36996 36995 P1 = 36995 Not Equipped NOTE: Vector ROM numbers and locations remain unchanged. Cheers, Mark From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 13 12:33:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:32:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:33:59 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Sega Multigame - input needed! Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hi everybody-- Brief status update on the Sega Multigame. There's a couple questions mixed in the text that I'd like input on... Hardware: --------- Hardware is near final. The daughtercard uses either a 27C040 or 27C080 (good idea, Ray). A 27C040 will be included. There are TWO 8-bit latches on the board. Latch "1" uses four lines for bank (game) select, the other four lines are for Audio selection. Question #1: Should I use one line per soundboard for selection, or encode it? ie: 0001 = Universal Sound Board 0010 = Space Fury Sound board 0100 = Eliminator Sound Board 1000 = reserved OR 0000 = Star Trek 0001 = Space Fury 0010 = Eliminator 0011 = Tac/Scan 0100 = Zektor 0101 = reserved ... 1111 = reserved The "one line per board" makes a simple little relay selector easier. The encoded version gives more room for expansion-- at the expense of needing more hardware to decode it. Doesn't matter to me, software's about the same to write... Latch "2" is reserved for expansion. (Specifically it's used to select Portrait or Landscape monitor mode, and to control a couple of EEPOT's for width control on the monitor from the menu software) The "standard" control panel will be Star Trek. I'll try to adapt the game code as best I can to allow use of the Star Trek control panel to play all games. I still want a guaranteed unique code for each game to be output from the latches though, so latch 2 will do that if we leave latch one as a simple "audio selector". Software: --------- After spending the weekend with Al's simulator I've concluded the following: Space Fury. I think I've patched this to use Star Trek's controls. Warp is rotate left, photon is rotate right, impulse is thrust, and fire is fire. Eliminator. I *might* be able to patch this to allow one player games using the same controls as above. Kinda tricky since they do some funky bit-packing with the input words. Tac/Scan. I *was* going to patch this to reverse the impulse/fire buttons to match up with Add Ship/Fire. It looks really painful, so I'm inclined to leave it as impulse=fire, fire=add ship. Zektor. Ditto above, except impulse=fire and fire=thrust. Question #2: Does this sound OK to everyone? I'll put the original Space Fury and Eliminator images in a couple empty slots on the EPROM in case people want a to use those and make a "universal" control panel by adding buttons to a Star Trek panel or whatever. Test Modes. The menu-software is started by the non-maskable interrupt (how you'd normally start the self-test) so the menu system will actually allow you to run a self-test for a particular game instead. Of course, if the boardset won't even turn on it's not going to help... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 13 13:09:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:09:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Multigame - input needed! Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:12:02 GMT Message-ID: <34437c8e.170898262@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:33:59 -0800, Clay Cowgill wrote: >Hi everybody-- > >Brief status update on the Sega Multigame. There's a couple questions >mixed in the text that I'd like input on... > >Hardware: >--------- >Hardware is near final. The daughtercard uses either a 27C040 or 27C080 >(good idea, Ray). A 27C040 will be included. There are TWO 8-bit = latches >on the board. Latch "1" uses four lines for bank (game) select, the = other >four lines are for Audio selection. > >Question #1: Should I use one line per soundboard for selection, or = encode it? > >ie: >0001 =3D Universal Sound Board >0010 =3D Space Fury Sound board >0100 =3D Eliminator Sound Board >1000 =3D reserved > >OR > >0000 =3D Star Trek >0001 =3D Space Fury >0010 =3D Eliminator >0011 =3D Tac/Scan >0100 =3D Zektor >0101 =3D reserved >... >1111 =3D reserved I wouldn't mind having the sound card selected directly as in option #1, but I would like a different selection for the Zektor sound board since if it's populated properly is not the same sound card as Eliminator. If this causes you to run out of bits, then maybe a third option: 0000 =3D Universal Sound Board 0001 =3D Space Fury Sound Board 0010 =3D Eliminator Sound Board 0011 =3D Zektor Sound Board ... 1111 =3D reserved I would also like a unique code for each game (I thought I read you were doing that but now I can't find it), I don't have a StarTrek control panel, so I'd like to use this output for to select a control panel that will probably be remapped using a PIC. Also (since I don't have a Star Trek control panel) actual ROM images would be preferred, possibly with David's patches to run SC free, though I'm such a nerd I might even program up a selectable GAL to emulate the different SC's and use this same output to run them (or would that scramble your background code?) -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 13 14:18:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:18:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3442908B.3348@32767willowtree.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 16:20:11 -0600 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Multigame - input needed! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Question #1: Should I use one line per soundboard for selection, or encode it? > > 0000 = Star Trek > 0001 = Space Fury > 0010 = Eliminator > 0011 = Tac/Scan > 0100 = Zektor > 0101 = reserved > ... > 1111 = reserved > if you encode it, Then later couldn't one use the same bits to bank speach rom info. > Latch "2" is reserved for expansion. (Specifically it's used to select > Portrait or Landscape monitor mode, and to control a couple of EEPOT's for > width control on the monitor from the menu software) I was curious about this, I didn't want to flip the monitor manually, is this what this is about ? Also, anybody have a universal & eliminator sound board to sell ? Thanks Todd From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 13 14:53:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:51:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:52:28 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Sega Multigame - input needed! Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >I wouldn't mind having the sound card selected directly as in option #1, >but I would like a different selection for the Zektor sound board since >if it's populated properly is not the same sound card as Eliminator. If >this causes you to run out of bits, then maybe a third option: [...] No biggie there. We can do: 0001 = USB 0010 = Eliminator 0100 = Space Fury 1000 = Zektor Unless anyone doesn't like this and has a good reason to change it... >I would also like a unique code for each game (I thought I read you were >doing that but now I can't find it), I don't have a StarTrek control >panel, so I'd like to use this output for to select a control panel that >will probably be remapped using a PIC. Exactly. Actually, why don't I just bring out the Bank select lines to a header? I'll just standardize that the position of the games in banks won't ever change. Instant "ID" code. :-) >Also (since I don't have a Star Trek control panel) actual ROM images >would be preferred, possibly with David's patches to run SC free, though >I'm such a nerd I might even program up a selectable GAL to emulate the >different SC's and use this same output to run them (or would that >scramble your background code?) Ehhhhh... Asking for trouble there, but this is what I do: Each Sega CPU board has a PROM that maps 2K chunks of memory (in this really bizarre non-contiguous way I might add). The PROM enables and disables the bus before it gets to the G-80 backplane. Since I need all memory on the daughtercard, I replace that PROM with one of my own mapping... There is a "CPU" EPROM (2K) that is normally on the CPU card (self test code and whatnot). On a stock G-80 system this is accessed directly and not through the decoder PROM. I remove this EPROM and put the code on the daughtercard. Each game on the daughtercard is given a 64K bank to make decoding easier. This is mapped as follows: 0000-BFFF (CPU EPROM + all game EPROMs = 48K) C000-C7FF (reserved 2K) C800-CFFF (SRAM on CPU board 2K) D000-DFFF (downloadable SRAM on USB 4K) E000-EFFF (VRAM on vector generator boards 4K) F000-F7FF (Menu system 2K) F800-FFFF (reserved 2K) Each 64K game "image" has a copy of the menu system at F000-F7FF. All games have their NMI vector changed to point to F000. The menu system runs when NMI is asserted. Choosing a game from a menu writes the bank and sound decode values to latch 1 and then jumps to 0000 (reset vector). Since the menu system is the same across all banks you can bank-switch the entire 64K memory space without clobbering yourself. The games are patched to avoid security chip stuff; remap controls to a "Star Trek" control panel (if applicable); and fix the NMI vectors to point to the menu. The control re-mapping gets a little weird sometimes since I need to be sure that the mux for port 0xFC (spinner/buttons) is pointing at the buttons. (In Space Fury I changed the reset vector to some unused memory around 0x4000 and set the 0xFC port selector up there and just JP back to the main code afterwards. I think I figured out how to fix Eliminator's control stuff too, but I haven't tried it yet...) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 13 15:27:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:27:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:28:11 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Sega Multigame - input needed! Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >> Latch "2" is reserved for expansion. (Specifically it's used to select >> Portrait or Landscape monitor mode, and to control a couple of EEPOT's for >> width control on the monitor from the menu software) > >I was curious about this, I didn't want to flip the monitor manually, >is this what this is about ? Right. I'm going to have one bit to select the monitor type. With a little "adapter" board it'll switch the low-voltage inputs automatically. Using a few more lines I can control a pair of digital potentiometers with a couple op-amps that act as a width and height control that can be set from the menu system. Kinda neat. The same board can be used as a Wells Gardner adapter board as well... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 13 15:41:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:41:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710132241.SAA01581@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: fishd Subject: Re: cine J14 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 02:13 AM 10/13/97 GMT, you wrote: >On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 17:54:04 -0400 (EDT), fishd wrote: > < stuff snipped> >> >>Signature Analysis makes fixing these Cin'e CPU's a >>piece o'cake. > >Cool! I want one! Were you plan on laying out a PCB based on Steve's? > I want one too but I think the only way to get one, other than paying $250 ;-) , is to build one. That's what I plan on doing. I'm just going to wire-wrap it or point-to-point solder. As far as the schematics go, I'm going to leave the distribution question for Steve to answer. I don't want to 'short-circuit' his project of putting it all into a FPGA. If it's OK with Steve I'd be willing to put it up on Zonn's page (since TANT is inaccessible). It's only one 'B' sized sheet and another sheet for the cables. I suppose the User Manual could go up to. Steve, it's up to you. BTW, I'm shipping the unit back tomorrow. It's been fun. David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! fishd@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 13 15:48:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:48:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199710132136.QAA20143@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Mon, 13 Oct 97 16:37:12 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Multigame - input needed! References: Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You wrote: > Hi everybody-- > > Brief status update on the Sega Multigame. There's a couple questions > mixed in the text that I'd like input on... > > Hardware: > --------- > Hardware is near final. The daughtercard uses either a 27C040 or 27C080 > (good idea, Ray). A 27C040 will be included. There are TWO 8-bit latches > on the board. Latch "1" uses four lines for bank (game) select, the other > four lines are for Audio selection. > > Question #1: Should I use one line per soundboard for selection, or encode > it? More generic solution is to encode it. That is, make it a game ID, and let the sound "solution" figure out what to do with it. Realistically, there will likely be an all in one sound card solution at some point. Until then, are you going to hard code the sound card type for the unfilled spots on the 27040/80? That is, which will be the default card for games to be hacked or new games? Is one sound card more interesting than the others? Looking at it this way, may make more sense to have the menu system pick the sound card type, rather than having it infered from the game type by the sound board(s). How about 00, 01, 10, 11 for sound board type select? That leave 2 bits for future stuff (control panel type??) > Question #2: Does this sound OK to everyone? I'll put the original Space > Fury and Eliminator images in a couple empty slots on the EPROM in case > people want a to use those and make a "universal" control panel by adding > buttons to a Star Trek panel or whatever. I think all the original games should be available from the menu (including 4p Eliminator). For the hacked games, why not standardize on 2 control panels? Star Trek 2P Eliminator ST CP layout seems fairly awkward for Space Fury and Eliminator. Still, may be better than nothing for most folks. ST is the most common sega game out there. Good stuff Clay! Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 13 15:49:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:49:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: cine J14 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:52:05 GMT Message-ID: <344ca56a.181359481@tommy.doctord.com> References: <199710132241.SAA01581@mailrelay.tiac.net> In-Reply-To: <199710132241.SAA01581@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:41:31 -0400 (EDT), fishd wrote: >At 02:13 AM 10/13/97 GMT, you wrote: >>On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 17:54:04 -0400 (EDT), fishd wrote: >> >< stuff snipped> >>> >>>Signature Analysis makes fixing these Cin'e CPU's a >>>piece o'cake. >> >>Cool! I want one! Were you plan on laying out a PCB based on Steve's? >> > >I want one too but I think the only way to get one, other than >paying $250 ;-) , is to build one. That's what I plan on doing. I'm >just going to wire-wrap it or point-to-point solder. > >As far as the schematics go, I'm going to leave the distribution >question for Steve to answer. I don't want to 'short-circuit' his >project of putting it all into a FPGA. If it's OK with Steve I'd >be willing to put it up on Zonn's page (since TANT is inaccessible). >It's only one 'B' sized sheet and another sheet for the cables. >I suppose the User Manual could go up to. I could probably find room (lose some marquee scans -- damn 5 meg limit -- what is that 1/20 of a Zip disk? Geeze maybe I should look for a new ISP), but isn't this a file for www.spies.com ? What'd ya say Al? -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 13 15:59:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:59:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:59:50 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: cine J14 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com there are gigabytes available on spies. just email it to me, or ftp it (or anything else anyone thinks should be up) to www.spies.com/incoming From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 13 16:00:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 16:00:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Multigame - input needed! Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:03:13 GMT Message-ID: <344ea801.182022106@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:52:28 -0800, Clay Cowgill wrote: >>I wouldn't mind having the sound card selected directly as in option = #1, >>but I would like a different selection for the Zektor sound board since >>if it's populated properly is not the same sound card as Eliminator. = If >>this causes you to run out of bits, then maybe a third option: >[...] > >No biggie there. We can do: > >0001 =3D USB >0010 =3D Eliminator >0100 =3D Space Fury >1000 =3D Zektor > >Unless anyone doesn't like this and has a good reason to change it... > >>I would also like a unique code for each game (I thought I read you = were >>doing that but now I can't find it), I don't have a StarTrek control >>panel, so I'd like to use this output for to select a control panel = that >>will probably be remapped using a PIC. > >Exactly. Actually, why don't I just bring out the Bank select lines to = a >header? I'll just standardize that the position of the games in banks >won't ever change. Instant "ID" code. :-) > >>Also (since I don't have a Star Trek control panel) actual ROM images >>would be preferred, possibly with David's patches to run SC free, = though >>I'm such a nerd I might even program up a selectable GAL to emulate the >>different SC's and use this same output to run them (or would that >>scramble your background code?) > >Ehhhhh... Asking for trouble there And not like I don't have better things to do! Sounds like patched code is the way to go, (well I still will probably want unpatched control panel stuff -- but it would be nice if you carefully document all the code your changes to allow for individuals to design there own control panel layouts -- or use different starting control panels) -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 13 16:40:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 16:40:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: cine J14 Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 16:39:07 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day folks, Please post away (on Zonn/Al/anyone else's WWW page)! Get that Cinematronics Exercisor schematic/user manual/etc information out to everybody.....you sure don't want to be waiting around till I get any FPGA project done. Trust me! Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - The real appeal of an FPGA solution is that all a person has to do is buy the Xilinx FPGA part (under $30) and wire up an EPROM to it (with the FPGA's wiring schematic on it) and away you go! If you want to wirewrap/solder, then go right ahead. As I understand it the FPGA development environment is only used once to translate (and debug) the schematic to the EPROM. Once you've done all that work, you can burn as many EPROMs as you like and just hook them up to Xilinx FPGA chips. >---------- >From: fishd[SMTP:fishd@tiac.net] >Sent: Monday, October 13, 1997 3:41 PM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Re: cine J14 > >At 02:13 AM 10/13/97 GMT, you wrote: >>On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 17:54:04 -0400 (EDT), fishd wrote: >> >< stuff snipped> >>> >>>Signature Analysis makes fixing these Cin'e CPU's a >>>piece o'cake. >> >>Cool! I want one! Were you plan on laying out a PCB based on Steve's? >> > >I want one too but I think the only way to get one, other than >paying $250 ;-) , is to build one. That's what I plan on doing. I'm >just going to wire-wrap it or point-to-point solder. > >As far as the schematics go, I'm going to leave the distribution >question for Steve to answer. I don't want to 'short-circuit' his >project of putting it all into a FPGA. If it's OK with Steve I'd >be willing to put it up on Zonn's page (since TANT is inaccessible). >It's only one 'B' sized sheet and another sheet for the cables. >I suppose the User Manual could go up to. > >Steve, it's up to you. BTW, I'm shipping the unit back tomorrow. >It's been fun. > >David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION >Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! > fishd@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" > dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 13 18:32:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:32:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01BCD81E.919C7660@liv37.tir.com> From: Frank Palazzolo To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: Sega Vector Speech Chips Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:25:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Just wanted to let you all know, I'm hoping to be in touch with the guy who designed the Mattel Intellivoice module shortly, which used a chip very similar to the Sega vector games, (as Clay pointed out a while ago.) I'm hoping that I can get some info on the SP0250. I'm starting to think that it might be possible to build a SP0250 replacement with an SP0256 and something to do the parallel to serial conversion. Granted, this chip is also obsolete also, but there are still people selling them for about $5, at least. Didn't someone have a bunch of Sega speech boards with missing SP0250's... ? -Frank Palazzolo palazzol@tir.com From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 14 00:16:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:15:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <34431D6D.B4BB90ED@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:21:19 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: cine J14 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Could someone enlighten us as to what the Sig analyzer needs to work? I have a Kurtz-Kash sig as well as teh "Cat Box (Atari)" analyzers, but I suspect that one needs the "box" to convert the timing signals from the Cinematronics TTL processor into something that the standard sig anys can deal with. Is this on the right track? Or is the process simpler than that? John :-#)# jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote: > On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Zonn wrote: > > > >Signature Analysis makes fixing these Cin'e CPU's a > > >piece o'cake. > > > > Cool! I want one! Were you plan on laying out a PCB based on Steve's? > > > > Another question is how easy to find, and how costly the HP > Signature Analyzers that are designed to be used with that board are... > > Anyone have any insight on that one? > > Joe -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 14 04:26:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 04:26:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 07:25:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710141125.HAA17110@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: fishd Subject: Re: cine J14 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 10:52 PM 10/13/97 GMT, Zonn wrote: > >I could probably find room (lose some marquee scans -- damn 5 meg limit >-- what is that 1/20 of a Zip disk? Geeze maybe I should look for a new >ISP), but isn't this a file for www.spies.com ? What'd ya say Al? > Wiretap, of course. I wasn't thinking when I typed my last message. I'll package the stuff up and send it to Al's wiretap site since it's OK with Steve. David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! fishd@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 14 06:25:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 06:24:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:24:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9710140824.ZM9616@calcite> In-Reply-To: Frank Palazzolo "Sega Vector Speech Chips" (Oct 13, 9:25pm) References: <199710140140.VAA21311@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Vector Speech Chips Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Oct 13, 9:25pm, Frank Palazzolo wrote: > Subject: Sega Vector Speech Chips > > Just wanted to let you all know, I'm hoping to be in touch > with the guy who designed the Mattel Intellivoice module shortly, > which used a chip very similar to the Sega vector games, (as Clay > pointed out a while ago.) > > I'm hoping that I can get some info on the SP0250. I'm starting to > think that it might be possible to build a SP0250 replacement with > an SP0256 and something to do the parallel to serial conversion. > Granted, this chip is also obsolete also, but there are still people > selling them for about $5, at least. Didn't someone have a bunch of > Sega speech boards with missing SP0250's... ? That would be me :-) An operator I visit every so often apparently has a stash of these, but I have no idea what price range he's looking for. I also have an abundance of CPU boards for those of you who want to try out Clay's board, but don't want to endanger your original CPU board (not that anything Clay made would ever cause a CPU to fail ;-) ;-)) ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 14 06:29:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 06:29:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:29:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9710140829.ZM9692@calcite> In-Reply-To: Mark Jenison "Re: Sega Vector Speech Chips" (Oct 14, 8:24am) References: <199710140140.VAA21311@po_box.cig.mot.com> <199710141332.JAA16798@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Vector Speech Chips Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Oct 14, 8:24am, Mark Jenison wrote: > Subject: Re: Sega Vector Speech Chips > On Oct 13, 9:25pm, Frank Palazzolo wrote: > > Subject: Sega Vector Speech Chips > > > An operator I visit every so often apparently has a stash of these, but I have > no idea what price range he's looking for. > This sentence is refering to SP0250 chips, not unpopulated speech boards. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 14 08:48:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:47:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:47:24 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: cine J14 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Ozdemir, Steve wrote: > ps - The real appeal of an FPGA solution is that all a person has to do > is buy the Xilinx FPGA part (under $30) and wire up an EPROM to it (with > the FPGA's wiring schematic on it) and away you go! If you want to > wirewrap/solder, then go right ahead. As I understand it the FPGA > development environment is only used once to translate (and debug) the > schematic to the EPROM. Once you've done all that work, you can burn as > many EPROMs as you like and just hook them up to Xilinx FPGA chips. I'm pretty sure you still have to program the FPGA itself. The configuration PROMS obviously DO configure the FPGA, but since most chip programmers have options to program FPGAs, I think you need to actually program them. I'm guessing a little bit here, but I think the programming of the FPGA itself may set the routing between the CLBs, while the configuration PROM loads the correct values in the the SRAMs of all the CLBs, or vice-versa. Anyways, I agree that it is still pretty easy. If you are serious about the FPGA project, I will volunteer to write a verilog model of the exercisor once the schematics get put up. That should speed your project along quite nicely, as most FPGA compilers that I have dealt with either USE verilog, or use something similar. I'd need to see those schematics to guess how long it will take, but I'm rough-rough guessing that it won't take too long, since I hacked out my model of the Cine CPU in about 2 weeks. Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 14 08:59:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:59:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:00:42 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Sega Vector Speech Chips Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Just wanted to let you all know, I'm hoping to be in touch >with the guy who designed the Mattel Intellivoice module shortly, >which used a chip very similar to the Sega vector games, (as Clay >pointed out a while ago.) Great! I'm glad someone took the time to look into that! :-) >I'm hoping that I can get some info on the SP0250. I'm starting to >think that it might be possible to build a SP0250 replacement with >an SP0256 and something to do the parallel to serial conversion. >Granted, this chip is also obsolete also, but there are still people >selling them for about $5, at least. I've got a BUNCH of them, and access to a (virtually) unlimited supply. $2.50 a pop if anyone wants 'em... >Didn't someone have a bunch of >Sega speech boards with missing SP0250's... ? Sounds like Mark. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 14 09:29:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:29:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:29:19 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: LF13331 Symptoms Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hey all, I posted about a week back about my Rip Off losing the negative Y deflection. FIguring this was just the output deflection transistor, I replaced it, but no dice. I replaced the 3 transistors listed in the manual, swapped the 2 DACs, and touched up all the solder joints in the vertical deflection section of the board, but still the same thing. I checked those 5 diodes in a row and all were OK, and I measured the resistance across the tantalium capacitor, and it was also OK (it was the same as the one on the horiz. deflection section was, and it wasn't shorted or opened.) Now, I'm not exactly getting a half picture -- I'm getting like a little over a half picture. I re-read the vectorlist postings from a couple of months ago, and Zonn mentioned that the LF13331 was on his "Most Likely To Die" list. So, what exactly are the symptoms of an LF13331 going out? All the manual mentions is that they are, indeed, likely to die. Joe BTW: The breakers never pop in this monitor -- the monitor can run on and on and on just like this... ------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 14 10:36:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:36:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: LF13331 Symptoms Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:38:45 GMT Message-ID: <3445aace.248285046@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:29:19 -0500 (CDT), wrote: > >Hey all, > > I posted about a week back about my Rip Off losing the >negative Y deflection. FIguring this was just the output deflection >transistor, I replaced it, but no dice. > > I replaced the 3 transistors listed in the manual, swapped=20 >the 2 DACs, and touched up all the solder joints in the vertical >deflection section of the board, but still the same thing. I checked >those 5 diodes in a row and all were OK, and I measured the resistance >across the tantalium capacitor, and it was also OK (it was the same >as the one on the horiz. deflection section was, and it wasn't shorted >or opened.) > > Now, I'm not exactly getting a half picture -- I'm getting like >a little over a half picture. I re-read the vectorlist postings from >a couple of months ago, and Zonn mentioned that the LF13331 was on his >"Most Likely To Die" list. So, what exactly are the symptoms of an >LF13331 going out? All the manual mentions is that they are, indeed, >likely to die. It could be the LF13331 but it sounds unlikely. Weird because it really sounds like an output transistor. Did you do a doide check on all the pre-driver transistors? Making sure they all had decent Base-Emitter and Base-Collector readings and no shorts? Another thing you might try is to make sure the power resistors are all reading the proper value. Cinematronics does have short circuit protection built in, if one of these resistor values changed to a higher value (or opened up), the output would go into short circuit protection mode and cut off your picture. A note on the LF13331, there was a problem where if the negative power supply came up before the positive supply it would blow out this chip. =20 There should be a diode connected between pin 4 and 5 (I believe) I can't remember the direction but check some of the newer schematics (Solar Quest: www.sipes.com ) as they added this diode to the schematic. Also if your monitor is old enough it won't have the neon bulbs connected from the wiper of the "brightness" control to ground, if they're not there, you should add them. Simply connect two NE-2 neon lamps in series and place them between the Brightness control wiper and ground (See the same schematic as above). This bleeds off any voltages above 180v that can be there during power ups/downs (from high voltage static discharges). -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 14 10:54:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:53:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:53:27 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: LF13331 Symptoms In-Reply-To: <3445aace.248285046@tommy.doctord.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, Zonn wrote: > It could be the LF13331 but it sounds unlikely. Weird because it really > sounds like an output transistor. Did you do a doide check on all the > pre-driver transistors? Making sure they all had decent Base-Emitter > and Base-Collector readings and no shorts? Yeah, that's what I meant by "those three transistors" -- the 3 transistors in the -Y deflection section. I checked them (they checked OK) but replaced them all anyways after I got frustrated. > Another thing you might try is to make sure the power resistors are all > reading the proper value. Cinematronics does have short circuit > protection built in, if one of these resistor values changed to a higher > value (or opened up), the output would go into short circuit protection > mode and cut off your picture. Ahhhhh, this makes a lot of sense. But, just out of curiousity, what are the typical symptoms of a bad LF13331? Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 14 11:03:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:03:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: LF13331 Symptoms Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:05:46 GMT Message-ID: <344bb3b7.250566774@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:53:27 -0500 (CDT), wrote: > >On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, Zonn wrote: > >> It could be the LF13331 but it sounds unlikely. Weird because it = really >> sounds like an output transistor. Did you do a doide check on all the >> pre-driver transistors? Making sure they all had decent Base-Emitter >> and Base-Collector readings and no shorts? > > Yeah, that's what I meant by "those three transistors" -- the 3 >transistors in the -Y deflection section. I checked them (they checked >OK) but replaced them all anyways after I got frustrated. >=20 >> Another thing you might try is to make sure the power resistors are = all >> reading the proper value. Cinematronics does have short circuit >> protection built in, if one of these resistor values changed to a = higher >> value (or opened up), the output would go into short circuit = protection >> mode and cut off your picture. > > Ahhhhh, this makes a lot of sense. =20 >=20 > But, just out of curiousity, what are the typical symptoms of a >bad LF13331? Mostly no picture at all (dead, circuit breaker blows), but I did have one that caused the vectors to go all haywire. Chances are if all you vectors line up correctly it's not the LF13331, but no guarantees. I suppose it could have a problem where only two switches of the four have gone bad and don't conduct in one direction, but I seems unlikely. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 14 12:24:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:23:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:24:20 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Security chip work-arounds... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hi all, Just want to do a sanity check on myself here before I report in to Dave Fish... Have any of you been running the "hacked" versions of the Sega XY games (Star Trek, Tac Scan, Zektor, Space Fury, Eliminator) from Dave? I think there's a problem with Star Trek, but it could be that I just missed joining a patched ROM or something... On my patched version of Star Trek from Dave, firing the Phaser results in no visible shots on screen in the viewscreen window. Odd. This happens in simulation and on real hardware. Is this just me? Also, according to someone else Zektor will occasionally give 99 lives when you die. He says that running original ROMs (with an emulated security chip) instead of the patched ROMs doesn't exhibit the problem. Any comments? -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 14 12:33:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:33:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: Who sees RGVAM? Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:52:56 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day folks, If folks don't mind sending email to sso@dsc.com, could you tell me if RGVAM articles are getting to your news site? Don't reply to this email since it'll go to the whole vectorlist email list! Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - With RGVAM done....now back to the new KLOV! From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 14 12:33:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:33:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:34:39 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Sega Multigame update (again)... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hi all, Just a little update. I have Eliminator running now with a Star Trek control panel using Warp (left), Photon (right), impulse (fire), and fire (thrust). (Yeah, I know impulse and fire are swapped, but I'll look into that a little later... It goes back to how much I want to hack on Tac/Scan and Zektor to make them "conform" too...) In the FYI category (this is mostly for Al, but it may apply to MAME porters too): The (mac version) simulator is missing "warp" and "photon" buttons. I added a few lines to mac_interface.c and used keys 'g' and 'h'. Added INT variables for photon and warp, and declared them extern to main.c. In main.c, the Star Trek code returns a single button state depending on which buttons are pressed, so you can't have multiple buttons pressed simultaneously. I changed to the code to be more like the other games, ie: c = 0; if(thrust) c |= 0x08; // dunno if these masks are right, just examples if(fire) c |= 0x04; if(photon) c |= 0x20; ... return(c); Al, I'll send you my source files back if you want my changes... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 14 13:41:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:41:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:41:18 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: 99 lives in Zektor Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but i've only seen the 99 lives bug in MAME, and not in my simulation. I also remember Dave telling me that Star Trek has a LOT of accesses that are mapped through the SC. Thanks for the source mods, i'll update my source base. Since Star Trek was the last game released, I spent the least time on it (that, and I think it's a boring game..) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 14 13:41:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:41:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: Who sees RGVAM? Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:40:35 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day folks (again), I got about a dozen responses from people who've seen RGVAM, so it looks like RGVAM is propagating nicely! Thanks to everyone for tolerating this non-vector topic. Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - Everyone can stop sending "I see RGVAM" email to sso@dsc.com. >---------- >From: Ozdemir, Steve >Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 1997 8:52 AM >To: 'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com' >Subject: Who sees RGVAM? > >G'day folks, > >If folks don't mind sending email to sso@dsc.com, could you tell me if >RGVAM articles are getting to your news site? Don't reply to this email >since it'll go to the whole vectorlist email list! > > Steven S Ozdemir > sso@dsc.com > >ps - With RGVAM done....now back to the new KLOV! > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 14 14:44:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:43:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710142143.RAA28122@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: fishd Subject: Re: Security chip work-arounds... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 12:24 PM 10/14/97 -0800, Clay wrote: >Hi all, > >Just want to do a sanity check on myself here before I report in to Dave Fish... > >Have any of you been running the "hacked" versions of the Sega XY games >(Star Trek, Tac Scan, Zektor, Space Fury, Eliminator) from Dave? Ummm... I did ;-) >I think there's a problem with Star Trek, but it could be that I just >missed joining a patched ROM or something... > >On my patched version of Star Trek from Dave, firing the Phaser results in >no visible shots on screen in the viewscreen window. Odd. This happens in >simulation and on real hardware. Is this just me? It's always possible that there's a patch that I got wrong. I don't recall how mine works so I'll set up my bench again since the Cine' project is complete. >Also, according to someone else Zektor will occasionally give 99 lives when >you die. He says that running original ROMs (with an emulated security >chip) instead of the patched ROMs doesn't exhibit the problem. I had heard this also but I definitely don't recall seeing it on my Zektor setup. Again anythings possible tho'. I'll look into this one also when I get some free time. I had given up on the Sega stuff for a while after BOTH my Z80 emulators crapped out and the intensity of the G08 started flaking out. It seemed that everything started to fail just as I got the 4 player Eliminator patches figured out. Damn Sega hardware, it's cursed. David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! fishd@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 08:58:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:57:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Fish, David" To: 'Vector_list' Subject: Exorcising (was RE: cine J14) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:39:45 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com John Robertson wrote: > >>Could someone enlighten us as to what the Sig analyzer needs to work? I have >>a Kurtz-Kash sig as well as teh "Cat Box (Atari)" analyzers, but I suspect >>that one needs the "box" to convert the timing signals from the >>Cinematronics >>TTL processor into something that the standard sig anys can deal with. Is >>this on the right track? Or is the process simpler than that? To use the Cinematronics Exorcisor you will need the Exorcisor (Duh) and a Signature Analyzer. That simple. Any model of analyzer should do, I happened to use an HP5004B (A?) since that's what I like the best. I'm not nuts about the 'feel' of the CAT box's probe and I don't have a K-K though either would work just as well as an HP. Set-up is very simple, two cables plug into the sockets where the DIP shunts plug in, three 16-pin DIP clips attach to N2, R2 and T2 and a clip lead attaches to TP8. The clock for the 'box' is grabbed off the board at the CLOCK TP. The START/STOP/CLOCK pod hooks up to the Exorcisor. The Exorcisor is not much more than a 28-bit wide pattern generator. It takes the clock input and divides down the signal through a bunch of counters then EXCLUSIVE-OR's various signals together to create unique signals. These signals are used to drive various points on the CPU in a STABLE and repeatable manner. All you have to do is probe the various points in the circuit and match the signatures to those on the schematics (if you can read them). Tracing bad signatures BACKWARD through the circuits 'usually' leads to the defective device. I say usually since there are always gotcha's ;-) It's nearly impossible to narrow down the problem to one IC if there is feedback involved as in the case of the board's Line Length Counter circuit :-( I was fighting that battle yesterday and had to give up. I'll upload the schematics, board layout and user manual (MS WORD) in the form of a .zip file to WIRETAP this week. Dave Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! dfish@bev.etn.com (work) | By hook or by crook we will" > fishd@tiac.com (/work) | _The Prisoner_ > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 11:55:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:55:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:55:15 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I've placed the zip file and the individual files in the schematics directory on www.spies.com http://www.spies.com/arcade/schematics/index.html From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 13:18:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:18:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:18:04 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Thanks for getting the stuff up so quickly, {Dave, Al}! As far as complexity goes, this thing is SIMPLE. I will have a Verilog model done TODAY. Steve: Talk to me about your FPGA plans for this. I am almost certain that an FPGA is not necessary. It will easily fit into an HD-PAL, and maybe even 2 regular PAL/GALs. How many people are interested in getting one of these? This may be a likely candidate for a board run if there are enough people. I am, for sure, going to make one for myself... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 ------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Al Kossow wrote: > > I've placed the zip file and the individual files in the schematics > directory on www.spies.com > > http://www.spies.com/arcade/schematics/index.html > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 13:31:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:31:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:33:40 GMT Message-ID: <344a2734.68436737@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:18:04 -0500 (CDT), wrote: > > Thanks for getting the stuff up so quickly, {Dave, Al}! > > As far as complexity goes, this thing is SIMPLE. I will have a >Verilog model done TODAY. > > Steve: Talk to me about your FPGA plans for this. I am almost >certain that an FPGA is not necessary. It will easily fit into an = HD-PAL, >and maybe even 2 regular PAL/GALs. > > How many people are interested in getting one of these? This >may be a likely candidate for a board run if there are enough people. > > I am, for sure, going to make one for myself... A week ago I would have jumped at the opportunity, though I might be getting a universal exorciser that is supposed to emulate the Cinematronics and many of the Atari, and other game exorcisers (40+ in all). Supposedly it has all the documentation, so well see... If that doesn't work out I'll take one (hell depending on the price I might want one anyways) Either way, does anyone know of where to get a signal analyser? (Clay I think you mentioned knowing who had a few at one time, I'm assuming those are gone?) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 13:31:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:31:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:34:43 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: from "jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu" at Oct 15, 97 03:18:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <344528e30.45e3@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 438 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > How many people are interested in getting one of these? This > may be a likely candidate for a board run if there are enough people. "sure" -- I'd have to fix my ancient logic analyzer, but hey.. Kurt /* * This version of Kurt Mahan is currently being evaluated. Words he speaks * are those of him only and not those of Novell or anybody else. * * Novell Java Technologies R&D Group * * Kurt Mahan * kmahan@novell.com */ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 13:44:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:44:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:45:04 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > How many people are interested in getting one of these? This >may be a likely candidate for a board run if there are enough people. Just as an FYI for hopefully the not-too-distant future... My boss (the Director of Engineering here) just signed off on a quick-proto PCB fabricator with a through-hole plating add-on. :-) Soooo... Five or six weeks from now hopefully I'll be able to make little runs of boards (like a few to a dozen depending on size) without too much hassle. We'll see! Should help get little things like ESB NOVRAM boards and Monitor Testers (and misc stuff) cleared out. Nice for PCB projects where setup charges would be more than the cost of the actual board materials... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 13:50:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:50:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 20:52:48 GMT Message-ID: <344c2ce7.69895874@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:45:04 -0800, Clay Cowgill wrote: >> How many people are interested in getting one of these? This >>may be a likely candidate for a board run if there are enough people. > >Just as an FYI for hopefully the not-too-distant future... > >My boss (the Director of Engineering here) just signed off on a = quick-proto >PCB fabricator with a through-hole plating add-on. :-) > >Soooo... Five or six weeks from now hopefully I'll be able to make = little >runs of boards (like a few to a dozen depending on size) without too = much >hassle. We'll see! Should help get little things like ESB NOVRAM = boards >and Monitor Testers (and misc stuff) cleared out. Nice for PCB projects >where setup charges would be more than the cost of the actual board >materials... Way cool! So does your company have any openings? Hmmmm? -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 13:52:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:52:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:52:05 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Soooo... Five or six weeks from now hopefully I'll be able to make little > runs of boards (like a few to a dozen depending on size) without too much > hassle. We'll see! Should help get little things like ESB NOVRAM boards > and Monitor Testers (and misc stuff) cleared out. Nice for PCB projects > where setup charges would be more than the cost of the actual board > materials... > Yeah Baby! I'm already halfway done with the verilog model. The next step is to see what PLD design tools I have access to either here, or at UTexas. Of course, the old fallback is PALASM, and I can use AMD parts to make this. (I'd have to re-write my code in PALASM format though :( ) What I'm hoping is that we bought Synopsys FPGA compiler. That would be very nice... Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 14:02:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:02:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:01:18 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day Joe (and all), I agree that an FPGA is overkill. It'd be overkill for the universal Cinematronics control panel translator that I'm considering. But it's so convenient to design in workview....now getting to the point where you have just the EPROM initing and running the FPGA. That's a little harder. Looking forward to the Verilog model TODAY (and the PAL/GALs tomorrow?)! Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - Zonn, you had your chance when I brought the Cinematronics Exercisor (minus connectors of course) down to San Diego earlier this year. I forget who it was who told me that "Signature analysis for diagnosis sucks." To be fair, David did point out correctly that signature analysis won't work well in feedback situations... >---------- >From: jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu[SMTP:jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu] >Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 1997 1:18 PM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up > > > Thanks for getting the stuff up so quickly, {Dave, Al}! > > As far as complexity goes, this thing is SIMPLE. I will have a >Verilog model done TODAY. > > Steve: Talk to me about your FPGA plans for this. I am almost >certain that an FPGA is not necessary. It will easily fit into an HD-PAL, >and maybe even 2 regular PAL/GALs. > > How many people are interested in getting one of these? This >may be a likely candidate for a board run if there are enough people. > > I am, for sure, going to make one for myself... > >Joe > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation >Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin >Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com >P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 >------------------------------------------------------------------ > >On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Al Kossow wrote: > >> >> I've placed the zip file and the individual files in the schematics >> directory on www.spies.com >> >> http://www.spies.com/arcade/schematics/index.html >> > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 14:04:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:04:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:07:07 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kurt Mahan" In-Reply-To: from "Clay Cowgill" at Oct 15, 97 01:45:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <3445307b0.4730@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 447 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > My boss (the Director of Engineering here) just signed off on a quick-proto > PCB fabricator with a through-hole plating add-on. :-) "How would it be.." he wonders out loud.. Time to send the resume out. :) Kurt /* * This version of Kurt Mahan is currently being evaluated. Words he speaks * are those of him only and not those of Novell or anybody else. * * Novell Java Technologies R&D Group * * Kurt Mahan * kmahan@novell.com */ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 14:04:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:04:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:03:41 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day Zonn, Please provide more details. Who makes this "universal exercisor" and I assume that the signatures come with it? I've never heard of any other signature analysis beyond the Atari Cat and Cinematronics Exercisor stuff. Was signature analysis used for other games? Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com >---------- >From: zonn@concentric.net[SMTP:zonn@concentric.net] >Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 1997 1:33 PM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up > >On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:18:04 -0500 (CDT), >wrote: > >> >> Thanks for getting the stuff up so quickly, {Dave, Al}! >> >> As far as complexity goes, this thing is SIMPLE. I will have a >>Verilog model done TODAY. >> >> Steve: Talk to me about your FPGA plans for this. I am almost >>certain that an FPGA is not necessary. It will easily fit into an HD-PAL, >>and maybe even 2 regular PAL/GALs. >> >> How many people are interested in getting one of these? This >>may be a likely candidate for a board run if there are enough people. >> >> I am, for sure, going to make one for myself... > >A week ago I would have jumped at the opportunity, though I might be >getting a universal exorciser that is supposed to emulate the >Cinematronics and many of the Atari, and other game exorcisers (40+ in >all). Supposedly it has all the documentation, so well see... > >If that doesn't work out I'll take one (hell depending on the price I >might want one anyways) > >Either way, does anyone know of where to get a signal analyser? > >(Clay I think you mentioned knowing who had a few at one time, I'm >assuming those are gone?) > >-Zonn > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: > |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically > / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures > / / //\\ // (__) > / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net > -------| // \\/ > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 14:12:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:12:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:14:48 GMT Message-ID: <344e312b.70987862@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:01:18 -0700, "Ozdemir, Steve" wrote: >G'day Joe (and all), > >I agree that an FPGA is overkill. It'd be overkill for the universal >Cinematronics control panel translator that I'm considering. But it's >so convenient to design in workview....now getting to the point where >you have just the EPROM initing and running the FPGA. That's a little >harder. > >Looking forward to the Verilog model TODAY (and the PAL/GALs tomorrow?)! > > Steven S Ozdemir > sso@dsc.com > >ps - Zonn, you had your chance when I brought the Cinematronics >Exercisor (minus connectors of course) down to San Diego earlier this >year. I don't believe you were interested in *selling* it, you wanted it reverse engineered as the "David the Man" has done. It didn't have time then (and it's even worse now!). So now I have a chance at owning one as does every well else, way to go David! >I forget who it was who told me that "Signature analysis for >diagnosis sucks." I was just quoting Joe, the technician that used to work at Cinematronics. It was his job to fix all the CCPU returns. He said when it worked it could pinpoint things pretty fast, but it only covered 80% of the board, and that it wasn't the end all to CCPU repair. >To be fair, David did point out correctly that >signature analysis won't work well in feedback situations... Probably one of the cases Joe was talking about... -Z <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 14:17:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:17:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:19:26 GMT Message-ID: <344f326e.71311010@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:03:41 -0700, "Ozdemir, Steve" wrote: >G'day Zonn, > >Please provide more details. Who makes this "universal exercisor" and I >assume that the signatures come with it? > >I've never heard of any other signature analysis beyond the Atari Cat >and Cinematronics Exercisor stuff. Was signature analysis used for >other games? I'm not sure of the name of the company, Gaymond ran across it (of course) and doesn't yet have all the doc's -- but there on the way (we'll see). Supposedly, according to the guy Gaymond's getting it from, it was *the* unit to have in the 80's since it emulated so many of the different games' exercisers. Gaymond should be at the auction this weekend, I'll get more info from him then. -Z <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 14:19:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:19:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:18:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9710151618.ZM4723@calcite> In-Reply-To: "Ozdemir, Steve" "RE: Cine CPU exorsisor data up" (Oct 15, 2:03pm) References: <199710152112.RAA25890@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Oct 15, 2:03pm, Ozdemir, Steve wrote: > Subject: RE: Cine CPU exorsisor data up > G'day Zonn, Are you originally from Australia? G'day mate! (Sorry Steve, couldn't resist ;-)) > Please provide more details. Who makes this "universal exercisor" and I > assume that the signatures come with it? > > I've never heard of any other signature analysis beyond the Atari Cat > and Cinematronics Exercisor stuff. Was signature analysis used for > other games? I'm fairly sure Bally/Midway has some sort of signature analysis. Doesn't Ms. Pac Man boards and the MCR II stuff have some mystery edges on them for which to hook up some test device? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 14:28:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:28:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:30:56 GMT Message-ID: <34503598.72121612@tommy.doctord.com> References: <199710152112.RAA25890@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9710151618.ZM4723@calcite> In-Reply-To: <9710151618.ZM4723@calcite> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:18:34 -0500 (CDT), Mark Jenison wrote: >On Oct 15, 2:03pm, Ozdemir, Steve wrote: >> Subject: RE: Cine CPU exorsisor data up >> G'day Zonn, > >Are you originally from Australia? G'day mate! (Sorry Steve, couldn't = resist >;-)) > >> Please provide more details. Who makes this "universal exercisor" and= I >> assume that the signatures come with it? >> >> I've never heard of any other signature analysis beyond the Atari Cat >> and Cinematronics Exercisor stuff. Was signature analysis used for >> other games? > >I'm fairly sure Bally/Midway has some sort of signature analysis. = Doesn't Ms. >Pac Man boards and the MCR II stuff have some mystery edges on them for = which >to hook up some test device? According to Gaymond, the exorcisor works with Pac Man (maybe he meant Ms. Pac Man or possibly both) and Missile Command, among others... -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 14:51:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:51:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 14:52:35 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >(Clay I think you mentioned knowing who had a few at one time, I'm >assuming those are gone?) Here is a message from me back on 2/26/97: "...I just got a note from W.J. Ford Surplus up in Canada and then have four of the HP5004's for $65/ea plus $18 shipping (Canadian). So that's about $62 US..." WJ Ford Surplus has a website-- should be findable from Yahoo or Altavista or whatever. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 15:07:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:07:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:07:17 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com " How many people are interested in getting one of these? This may be a likely candidate for a board run if there are enough people." I ran over to Ace and picked up the 5004A that they had (it was $80) at lunch time, so i'm interested (I have 6 dead CPU boards..) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 15:08:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:08:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:08:36 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com "Either way, does anyone know of where to get a signal analyser?" Test Labs in Mt View had a pallete of them about a year ago that Haltek (the junk store next door) was trying to sell. I'll try to get over there and see if they have any left. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 15:15:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:15:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:14:35 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Clay Cowgill wrote: > "...I just got a note from W.J. Ford Surplus up in Canada and then have > four of the HP5004's for $65/ea plus $18 shipping (Canadian). So that's > about $62 US..." I checked their web page, and they had 2 left at that price. They only have 1 now ;) > WJ Ford Surplus has a website-- should be findable from Yahoo or Altavista > or whatever. It's: www.falls.igs.net/~testequipment Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 15:30:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:29:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:29:30 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hey All, It looks like there is a significant interest in a mock-up of the Exorcisor, as I expected. As promised, the Verilog model WILL be done today. I am putting the finishing touches on it now. What I am going to do is: 1) Find out if we have Synopsys FPGA compiler here. If so, my work is done (as far as the "guts" of the Exercisor go) 2) If we don't, I'll see what FPGA design tools I have access to. I KNOW the apps. guys here use Xilinx and Altera FPGA stuff, so there's gotta be some way I can use it. I think MAX-PLUS (Altera's FPGA design tool) can read Verilog files. 3) If all else fails, I'll go back to good 'ol PALASM. I'll check on the prices of AMD's MACH series HD-PALs. I think the exercisor will fit on 3 22V10s (It has 27 outputs which actually toggle) and those run about $5 a piece, but a single MACH may be cheaper? Like I said before, if I do this, I need to convert my code to PALASM, but that shouldn't be too hard, since I've used PALASM before. I think my programmer can program MACHs. Dave, do you have a list sitting around of the actual vectors that come out of the exorcisor? I'd only need the first few. You DID put the signatures on the schematic, but for debuging my Verilog model, it would be helpful if I had a few of the actual vectors. If you don't, I can figure them out by hand... I'll keep you guys posted. I don't expect the design cycle of this whole thing to take too long. Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 15:33:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:33:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:33:47 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Let me know before you buy any MACH parts. I know I have tubes of 210's and maybe some 220's (we used to use a LOT of them) I have bunches of 22V10's in different speeds too. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 15:56:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:56:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:55:00 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day Joe (and no, I'm not Australian....I just wish I was there), I'd suggest using Xilinx 3000 parts if it works out. As I've said before, I'm pretty sure that all you'd have to do is distribute an EPROM image to the rest of us. Well, maybe you'd also have to distribute a simple schematic showing how to hook up the Xilinx FPGA to the EPROM so that it inits/runs the FPGA! 8^) 8^) 8^) But hey, it would be the simplest hardware solution. Heck, because you can reprogram the Xilinx part with a new EPROM image, we might be able to reuse the $20 part for something like a universal Cinematronics control panel translator! How about a combination Cinematronics Exercisor/control panel translator!! Steven S Ozdemir "going off the deep end when it comes to Cinematronics feature creep" sso@dsc.com >---------- >From: jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu[SMTP:jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu] >Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 1997 3:29 PM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up > > >Hey All, > > It looks like there is a significant interest in a mock-up >of the Exorcisor, as I expected. > > As promised, the Verilog model WILL be done today. I am >putting the finishing touches on it now. What I am going to do is: > > 1) Find out if we have Synopsys FPGA compiler here. If so, >my work is done (as far as the "guts" of the Exercisor go) > > 2) If we don't, I'll see what FPGA design tools I have access >to. I KNOW the apps. guys here use Xilinx and Altera FPGA stuff, so >there's gotta be some way I can use it. I think MAX-PLUS (Altera's >FPGA design tool) can read Verilog files. > > 3) If all else fails, I'll go back to good 'ol PALASM. >I'll check on the prices of AMD's MACH series HD-PALs. I think the >exercisor will fit on 3 22V10s (It has 27 outputs which actually >toggle) and those run about $5 a piece, but a single MACH may be >cheaper? Like I said before, if I do this, I need to convert >my code to PALASM, but that shouldn't be too hard, since I've used >PALASM before. I think my programmer can program MACHs. > > Dave, do you have a list sitting around of the actual vectors >that come out of the exorcisor? I'd only need the first few. You DID >put the signatures on the schematic, but for debuging my Verilog >model, it would be helpful if I had a few of the actual vectors. If >you don't, I can figure them out by hand... > > I'll keep you guys posted. I don't expect the design cycle of >this whole thing to take too long. > >Joe > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation >Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin >Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com >P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 >------------------------------------------------------------------ > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 15:58:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:57:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 17:57:30 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Exercisor Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hey all, The verilog model of the exercisor is done, and I am testing it now. A related question to the last one that I asked Dave would be about how a signature analyzer works. If I could learn how to create a signature from a given bitstream, that would also help me in testing. Are they just CRC polynomials? Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 16:07:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:07:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:08:47 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > 1) Find out if we have Synopsys FPGA compiler here. If so, >my work is done (as far as the "guts" of the Exercisor go) We just got a full Synopsis kit here-- I dunno if it has Verilog support though. (Synopsis always seemed to license ABEL-HDL for low end stuff.) > 3) If all else fails, I'll go back to good 'ol PALASM. >I'll check on the prices of AMD's MACH series HD-PALs. I think the >exercisor will fit on 3 22V10s (It has 27 outputs which actually >toggle) and those run about $5 a piece, but a single MACH may be >cheaper? Like I said before, if I do this, I need to convert >my code to PALASM, but that shouldn't be too hard, since I've used >PALASM before. I think my programmer can program MACHs. 22V10's are about $2.65 in small qty from JDR or Jameco. Atmel is making a cheap one now based on their flash technology. When we were looking at it it was around $.40 (!) in 10K/mo quantity. I don't know if we'll use it or not though so I may or may not be able to get some pretty cheap... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 16:26:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:26:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 18:25:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9710151825.ZM8114@calcite> In-Reply-To: Joel Rosenzweig "Re: ATTN: Tempest Fans" (Sep 24, 9:49am) References: <34288bb00.5896@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> <199709241351.JAA14398@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: ATTN: Tempest Fans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Any word from anybody on how these came out? I'm thinking of ordering a SW marquee myself... On Sep 24, 9:49am, Joel Rosenzweig wrote: > Subject: Re: ATTN: Tempest Fans > Kurt Mahan wrote: > > > > > Others that would be popular > > > star wars (yoke and marquee) > > > > If someone is going to do this let me know -- I ordered some of the "last" > > SW parts of this from Atari -- and I haven't restored my SW yet so they are > > still easily dup'able.. > > > > Herb at Fab-Fan just announced (9/23) that he is making these. The > marquee is $45 and the yoke sticker is $30. > > I ordered a set for myself, so I'll see how they look. > > Joel- >-- End of excerpt from Joel Rosenzweig From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 16:36:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:35:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:35:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710152335.TAA16637@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: fishd Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 05:29 PM 10/15/97 -0500, Joe wrote: > > Dave, do you have a list sitting around of the actual vectors >that come out of the exorcisor? I'd only need the first few. You DID >put the signatures on the schematic, but for debuging my Verilog >model, it would be helpful if I had a few of the actual vectors. If >you don't, I can figure them out by hand... > Sorry, no 'gots. I only read the signatures at the outputs of the box and didn't bother with the innards. David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! fishd@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 15 22:38:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:38:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3445A99D.96562F14@istar.ca> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:43:59 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Cine CPU exorsisor data up References: <344528e30.45e3@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I'd Like one too... John :-#)# Kurt Mahan wrote: > > How many people are interested in getting one of these? This > > may be a likely candidate for a board run if there are enough people. > -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 06:20:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 06:20:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199710161319.IAA20438@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: <9710151825.ZM8114@calcite> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Thu, 16 Oct 97 08:20:50 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: ATTN: Tempest Fans References: <34288bb00.5896@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> <199709241351.JAA14398@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9710151825.ZM8114@calcite> Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You wrote: > Any word from anybody on how these came out? I'm thinking of ordering a SW > marquee myself... I pre-ordered a set. Still waiting for it. Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 06:45:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 06:45:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <34461BE7.4DFD@an.hp.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:51:35 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: ATTN: Tempest Fans References: <34288bb00.5896@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> <199709241351.JAA14398@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9710151825.ZM8114@calcite> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I haven't received my set yet, either. Herb says he mailed it out the middle of last week. Ground UPS takes about 7 days from California to Massachusetts, so I'm hoping that it arrives today. Someone on RGVAC mentioned that they had received their set. Their report was that the yoke sticker was an exact duplicate in every way. The marquee was exceptional, except that the copyright information had been removed. It was identical in all other respects. I'll let you all know what I think, once mine arrive. Joel- Mark Jenison wrote: > Any word from anybody on how these came out? I'm thinking of ordering a SW > marquee myself... > > On Sep 24, 9:49am, Joel Rosenzweig wrote: > > Subject: Re: ATTN: Tempest Fans > > Kurt Mahan wrote: > > > > > > > Others that would be popular > > > > star wars (yoke and marquee) > > > > > > If someone is going to do this let me know -- I ordered some of the "last" > > > SW parts of this from Atari -- and I haven't restored my SW yet so they are > > > still easily dup'able.. > > > > > > > Herb at Fab-Fan just announced (9/23) that he is making these. The > > marquee is $45 and the yoke sticker is $30. > > > > I ordered a set for myself, so I'll see how they look. > > > > Joel- > >-- End of excerpt from Joel Rosenzweig From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 08:17:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:17:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199710161516.KAA04297@fastlane.net> From: "Mark Shostak" To: Subject: Universal Cinematronics Control Panel Translator Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:10:19 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In message "Cine CPU exorsisor data up", "Ozdemir, Steve " writes: > we might be able to reuse the $20 part for something like a universal > Cinematronics control panel translator! How about a combination > Cinematronics Exercisor/control panel translator!! Hi Steve (and all), If you're interested in a universal Cinematronics control panel translator, I can help you out. For my menu based multigame project, I've patched a bunch of Cinematronics games to use a standard control panel layout as well as a standard DIP switch layout. It works well as one size control panel fits all. Also, it's nice to be able to set the number of ships per game for one game and have the same number of ships in every other game. If you (or anyone else) would like a copy, or um, backup of my patched ROMs, send me some email and I can hook you up. Cheers, Mark From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 09:57:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:56:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:56:47 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: trivial binary compare pgm Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com here was something I hacked together when Dave and I were comparing ROM versions. catenate the images together and it will print out any bytes that differ #include main(){ FILE *f1, *f2; unsigned char c1, c2; unsigned int adr = 0; f1 = fopen("el2_prom","rb"); f2 = fopen("el_prom","rb"); while(!feof(f1)){ c1 = getc(f1); c2 = getc(f2); if (c1 != c2){ printf("%04x %02x %02x\n", adr, c1 ,c2); } adr++; } } ..not pretty but it got the job done From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 10:00:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:00:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:01:35 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: There's, uhhhh, different versions of Star Trek... Cc: mab22@po.cwru.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Discovery of the day... It looks like there's some ROM differences between Star Trek ROM sets. In particular, it looks like ROM 1848 has a couple different flavors. I haven't disassembled yet, but there looks like about two dozen bytes that differ. I dunno if they're code or data. Anyone know anything about it? -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 10:02:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:02:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 12:01:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9710161201.ZM21182@calcite> In-Reply-To: aek@motgate.mot.com (Al Kossow) "trivial binary compare pgm" (Oct 16, 9:56am) References: <199710161705.NAA28384@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: trivial binary compare pgm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Al, You're taking a big risk by submitting a coding sample to this crew ;-) On Oct 16, 9:56am, Al Kossow wrote: > Subject: trivial binary compare pgm > > here was something I hacked together when Dave and I > were comparing ROM versions. catenate the images together > and it will print out any bytes that differ > > #include > main(){ > FILE *f1, *f2; > unsigned char c1, c2; > unsigned int adr = 0; > > f1 = fopen("el2_prom","rb"); > f2 = fopen("el_prom","rb"); > while(!feof(f1)){ > c1 = getc(f1); > c2 = getc(f2); > if (c1 != c2){ > printf("%04x %02x %02x\n", adr, c1 ,c2); > } > adr++; > } > } > > ..not pretty but it got the job done >-- End of excerpt from Al Kossow From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 10:27:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:27:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:28:03 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: trivial binary compare pgm Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >here was something I hacked together when Dave and I >were comparing ROM versions. catenate the images together >and it will print out any bytes that differ Ah, cool. Thanks Al. I was going to write that myself but I happened across a little DOS app called "FCOMP" that does an interactive on-screen version so I was playing with that. It doesn't dump addresses though, so I'll probably run it through your "few liner". -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 10:33:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:33:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: trivial binary compare pgm Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:36:03 GMT Message-ID: <345b4f76.144290393@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:56:47 -0700 (PDT), aek@goonsquad.spies.com (Al Kossow) wrote: > >here was something I hacked together when Dave and I >were comparing ROM versions. catenate the images together >and it will print out any bytes that differ > >#include >main(){ > FILE *f1, *f2; > unsigned char c1, c2; > unsigned int adr =3D 0; > > f1 =3D fopen("el2_prom","rb"); > f2 =3D fopen("el_prom","rb"); > while(!feof(f1)){ > c1 =3D getc(f1); > c2 =3D getc(f2); > if (c1 !=3D c2){ > printf("%04x %02x %02x\n", adr, c1 ,c2); > } > adr++; > } >} > >..not pretty but it got the job done Or in DOS you can type: fc /b e12_prom e1_prom It's always work for me, those MAC people what can you say? (Sorry Al, I just had to say it! ;^) ;^) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 10:37:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:37:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:37:03 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: trivial binary compare pgm Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com "It's always work for me, those MAC people what can you say? (Sorry Al, I just had to say it! ;^) ;^)" ..oh, it's worse than that I take the stuff on my mac, ftp it to goonsquad.spies.com (which is 10 miles away) and run the diff there :-) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 11:14:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:14:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:15:10 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: trivial binary compare pgm Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Or in DOS you can type: > > fc /b e12_prom e1_prom > >It's always work for me, those MAC people what can you say? (Sorry Al, I >just had to say it! ;^) ;^) Well, I'll be. That does work. Learn something new everyday... ;-) Ah, so I shouldn't have been doing: 1) Telnet from PC to wwwpro.com, login to UNIX shell and compile compare program. 2) Run compare program and re-direct output to file. 3) ftp file to PC 4) copy file from PC to NT server shared directory 5) mount shared directory from mac, grab file 6) Launch Word, search and replace UNIX EOL characters with Mac end-of-paragraph 7) Cut and past diffs into e-mail. :-) Oh, well. I least I didn't write write a new FTP client to get the file in the first place. *grin* -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 11:15:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:15:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:16:36 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: There's, uhhhh, different versions of Star Trek... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >In particular, it looks like ROM 1848 has a couple different flavors. I >haven't disassembled yet, but there looks like about two dozen bytes that >differ. I dunno if they're code or data. Anyone know anything about it? Ah-hah! Mystery solved (by Dave Fish). Turns out those are the CRC lookup tables. Makes sense. :-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 12:51:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 12:51:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 12:51:43 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: "reference" checksums Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Was just thinking we probably should add checksum tables (or the CRC's) to the Sega EPROMs to Mark's and my Sega docs for known good sets (all but Zektor should be referenced against two or more dumps from different EPROM sets..) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 15:27:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:26:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:27:49 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: "reference" checksums Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Was just thinking we probably should add checksum tables (or the CRC's) >to the Sega EPROMs to Mark's and my Sega docs for known good sets (all >but Zektor should be referenced against two or more dumps from different >EPROM sets..) Good idea, we're starting to get "permutations" in enough places that it could get to be a problem. On a related topic, the "bugs" in the cracked version of Star Trek turned out to be a red herring-- there was a pre-release cracked version of Star Trek that was being tested with the G-80 simulator on the Mac that I had "re-incorporated" into the multi-game. So, long story short, Star Trek (SC-free version) is safe for consumption. :-) We are going to look into Zektor a little bit next to see if it's OK for sure... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 17:46:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:46:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:47:47 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Input needed (multigame) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hi, just looking for comments again. I have Eliminator all patched up so that it plays from a Star Trek-type control panel as a single-player game. Since there are no controls for Player 2, should I disable the 2P Start button? I dunno if anyone would want to start a 2 player game with only one player... Target practice? :-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 17:54:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:54:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Input needed (multigame) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:56:49 GMT Message-ID: <3464b73d.170861031@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:47:47 -0800, Clay Cowgill wrote: >Hi, just looking for comments again. > >I have Eliminator all patched up so that it plays from a Star Trek-type >control panel as a single-player game. Since there are no controls for >Player 2, should I disable the 2P Start button? I dunno if anyone would >want to start a 2 player game with only one player... Target practice? = :-) It's probably just a personal preference, but I don't know why anyone would want to start a 1 player Eliminator game... Target practice? ;^) ;^) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 18:10:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:10:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:10:53 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Input needed (multigame) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >It's probably just a personal preference, but I don't know why anyone >would want to start a 1 player Eliminator game... Target practice? ;^) >;^) Who's (geographically) close to Zonn. Smack him for me, please. :-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 18:19:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:19:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Universal Cinematronics Control Panel Translator Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:21:22 GMT Message-ID: <3465b7ec.171035789@tommy.doctord.com> References: <199710161516.KAA04297@fastlane.net> In-Reply-To: <199710161516.KAA04297@fastlane.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:10:19 -0700, "Mark Shostak" wrote: >In message "Cine CPU exorsisor data up", "Ozdemir, Steve " = writes: > >> we might be able to reuse the $20 part for something like a universal >> Cinematronics control panel translator! How about a combination >> Cinematronics Exercisor/control panel translator!! > >Hi Steve (and all), > >If you're interested in a universal Cinematronics control panel = translator, >I can help you out. For my menu based multigame project, I've patched a >bunch of Cinematronics games to use a standard control panel layout as >well as a standard DIP switch layout. > >It works well as one size control panel fits all. Also, it's nice to be= able >to set the number of ships per game for one game and have the same >number of ships in every other game. > >If you (or anyone else) would like a copy, or um, backup of my patched >ROMs, send me some email and I can hook you up. Somebody read that .DOC file I spent so many nights on? Way cool! This is just the kind of thing I had in mind when I wrote it. Way to go Mark! More than a copy of your ROMs, what I think would be nice is the memory locations you changed, allowing me and any one else to set up there own control panel! (I hope you document well.) I like the idea of remapping the switches, that gets rid of one multi-game pain. Are you writing the menu using the Cinematronics CPU? Or do you have some sort of additional hardware (CPU) for the menu selection? How do you plan on switching between games, resetting into the new game? There are some things to be careful of when writing vector games...er...menus, just some things Scott Boden (Solar Quest guy) was telling Bill about. Mostly things like keeping things center on the screen, etc. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 16 18:24:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:24:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Input needed (multigame) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 01:26:32 GMT Message-ID: <3466bdb7.172518850@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:10:53 -0800, Clay Cowgill wrote: >>It's probably just a personal preference, but I don't know why anyone >>would want to start a 1 player Eliminator game... Target practice? ;^) >>;^) > >Who's (geographically) close to Zonn. Smack him for me, please. :-) > OOWW! BILL!! What the hell was that for?? No I haven't read vectorlist, I shut my computer off for the day! Geeeze! --- I did think of one thing, sometimes when your target practicing (1 player mode) it's nice to have that *other* guy just sitting there looking stupid. If the creature from the bagel is after you, you can distract him by flying by the putz, at that point bagel boy becomes more interested in the putz, and you can go on and toast bagel boy's home. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 17 08:28:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 08:27:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 08:28:27 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Input needed (multigame) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >I did think of one thing, sometimes when your target practicing (1 >player mode) it's nice to have that *other* guy just sitting there >looking stupid. If the creature from the bagel is after you, you can >distract him by flying by the putz, at that point bagel boy becomes more >interested in the putz, and you can go on and toast bagel boy's home. Ahhh, OK that verifies the only thing I've used 2 player mode for. ;-) I'll leave both player 1 and player 2 start buttons active... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 17 09:49:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:49:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:42:45 -0500 From: "Rhea, Cristopher J." (Cris Rhea) Message-Id: <199710171642.LAA05310@sijer.Mayo.EDU> To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: WTB: AD561J Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I need a few AD561J's (D to A converter used in Asteriods). I just joined the list, so if there is a FAQ that covers where to buy these, please point me at it.... I've had no luck with my standard places (Jameco, JDR, Digikey). TIA- --- Cris ----------------------------------------------------------- Cristopher J. Rhea Mayo Foundation Research Computing Facility Guggenheim 1001B crhea@Mayo.EDU Rochester, MN 55905 Fax: (507) 266-4486 (507) 284-0587 ----------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 17 10:01:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:01:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:01:38 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: WTB: AD561J Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com The cheapest place, sadly to say, is to buy an Sega XY board from Mark and take the two socketed DACs off of it :-( From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 17 10:35:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:35:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:35:09 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: in case anyone didn't see it.. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com here is Mark's posting from RGVAC (BTW, RGVACM's newgroup messages hasn't made it to apple.com or spies.com yet..) Did someone say "Sega XY"? Yes, I still have lots of CPUs, XY-Pairs, and Space Fury sound boards available. The CPUs can be modified ala David Fish's hack to play ANY of the Sega XY games. I also have a limited supply of Eliminator, Tac/Scan/Star Trek sound boards. I also have unpopulated (which means untested) EPROM boards available. I also have speech boards, but they are missing the ORATOR chip on them (SPO-250). So unless you can supply your own, these won't do you much good. Prices (based on supply and demand): ------ CPU boards $15 Sega XY pairs: XY control board: $15 XY timing board: $15 Both with jumper cable: $40 Space Fury SB: $25 Eliminator SB: $35 Tac/Scan/Star Trek SB: $40 EPROM boards (empty/untested): $10 Speech board (empty/untested): $5 -- ____________ ______ ___ _____ __ ____________ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ Sega/Gremlin jenison@ /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Color Vector cig.mot.com /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| Arcade Games ____________ The One and Only 4-player vector game ____________ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 17 10:41:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 10:41:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:40:08 -0600 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: WTB: AD561J Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I was looking for one of these in the past. Here's what I came up with for finding obsolete parts. Key Electronics: http://www.keyelectronics.com or (941) 389 9348 as of 2/6/97 they have 20 AD561J parts in stock. You'll have to call for a price. Rochester Electronics: http://www.rocelec.com or (508) 462 9332 as of 2/6/97 they have 100+ AD561JN(?) parts in stock. Call to get price and verify that it's the right part. Jerome Industries: http://www.sure.net/~jerome or (805) 527 5893 didn't find it in their inventory.dbf file, but they could be a good source for other parts Mushroom Components: http://www.mushroom.co.uk or (+44) 1933 275345 didn't find it They're far away, but they have an impressive stock of obsolete parts. -jeff >I need a few AD561J's (D to A converter used in Asteriods). > >I just joined the list, so if there is a FAQ that covers where to buy these, >please point me at it.... > >I've had no luck with my standard places (Jameco, JDR, Digikey). > >TIA- > > >--- Cris jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 17 11:12:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:12:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: in case anyone didn't see it.. Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 11:11:24 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day folks, It's RGVAM, not RGVAMC. If this was just a mistype, Al, then ignore this. As I said in my RGVAC article about RGVAM, you can forward a copy of the control message with a subject of "cmsg newsgroup rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace" stored at DejaNews under the newsgroup with the same name to your news administrator at apple.com. As for spies.com, well Al, I imagine that you're the news administrator! 8^) Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com ps - I don't know how these control messages are processed to cause the new newsgroup to be created. Maybe Tony or someone else who's done news administration could enlighten the rest of us. >---------- >From: aek@goonsquad.spies.com[SMTP:aek@goonsquad.spies.com] >Sent: Friday, October 17, 1997 10:35 AM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: in case anyone didn't see it.. > > >here is Mark's posting from RGVAC > >(BTW, RGVACM's newgroup messages hasn't made it to apple.com or spies.com >yet..) > >Did someone say "Sega XY"? > >Yes, I still have lots of CPUs, XY-Pairs, and Space Fury sound boards >available. The CPUs can be modified ala David Fish's hack to play ANY of the >Sega XY games. > >I also have a limited supply of Eliminator, Tac/Scan/Star Trek sound boards. > >I also have unpopulated (which means untested) EPROM boards available. > >I also have speech boards, but they are missing the ORATOR chip on them >(SPO-250). So unless you can supply your own, these won't do you much good. > >Prices (based on supply and demand): >------ >CPU boards $15 >Sega XY pairs: > XY control board: $15 > XY timing board: $15 > Both with jumper cable: $40 >Space Fury SB: $25 >Eliminator SB: $35 >Tac/Scan/Star Trek SB: $40 >EPROM boards (empty/untested): $10 >Speech board (empty/untested): $5 > >-- >____________ ______ ___ _____ __ ____________ > / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ >Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ Sega/Gremlin >jenison@ /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Color Vector > >cig.mot.com /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| Arcade Games >____________ The One and Only 4-player vector game ____________ > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 17 12:40:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:40:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971017124023.005acdc8@mage.qualcomm.com> X-Sender: wpaul@mage.qualcomm.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:40:23 -0700 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Bill Paul Subject: FS:EPROMs and PLDs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I have recently come across a quantity of UV EPROMs and Programmable logic, and figured that some of you here that are working on various projects could make use of these. Please don't forward this list on to the Usenet, since I might jack the price up a little before posting there (I'm trying to give the people I know here a good deal). On most of the EPROMs, I have peeled off the label (except about 20 of the '256s and the '040s). First come, first serve on peeled ones. All except for the NOS ones will have data on them, so you'll have to erase them first. I'll also guarantee everything against DOA. Unless you are in my area (San Diego), shipping will be a flat $3 for any size order. If you just want a couple pieces and have some other shipping preference, let me know and we'll work it out. Thanks, -BP P/N Speed Manuf. Notes Qty Vectorlist price ------------------------------------------------ 27c256 200 Atmel NOS -32Kx8 4 $1.50 27c256 200 AMD NOS -32Kx8 14 $1.50 27c256 120 Intel -32Kx8 25 $1.00 27c256 150 Intel -32Kx8 34 $1.00 27c256 200 Intel -32Kx8 5 $1.00 27c256 200 AMD -32Kx8 16 $1.00 27c256 150 AMD -32Kx8 30 $1.00 27c010 150 Intel -128Kx8 10 $2.00 27c010 120 AMD -128Kx8 10 $2.00 TC571000D-150 Toshiba ??? 1 $2.00 27c010 100 MSI -128Kx8 47 $2.00 27c010 100 MSI NOS -128Kx8 10 $2.50 27c010 120 AMD NOS -128Kx8 12 $2.50 27c020 120 AMD 256Kx8 7 $3.00 27c020 150 AMD 256Kx8 75 $3.00 27c020 150 TI 256Kx8 14 $3.00 27c4001-150 ST 256Kx8 3 $4.50 27c040 100 TI 512Kx8 8 $4.50 27c040-150 Intel 512Kx8 4 $4.50 ispGAL22V10B -7LJ Lattice NOS -28pin SOJ pkg 35 $2.00 GAL20V8A -10LP Lattice NOS -20pin DIP pkg 9 $1.50 PAL16R8A -4CN MMI NOS -20pin DIP pkg 11 $1.00 ************************************ Bill Paul email: bpaul@qualcomm.com 619-658-3741 San Diego, CA http://people.qualcomm.com/wpaul/ ************************************ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 17 13:37:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:37:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199710172019.PAA03225@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: <199710161319.IAA20438@fermat.mayo.edu> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Fri, 17 Oct 97 15:19:06 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Reproduction Star Wars overlays References: <34288bb00.5896@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> <199709241351.JAA14398@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9710151825.ZM8114@calcite> <199710161319.IAA20438@fermat.mayo.edu> Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You wrote: > > Any word from anybody on how these came out? I'm thinking of ordering a SW > > marquee myself... > > I pre-ordered a set. Still waiting for it. Got mine yesterday. Flight controller overlay is very sharp. Marquee looks great! Alas, mine was packed poorly so there is a crease right down the middle of the marquee. I'm not sure if it will disappear when applied, or if it will still be noticable. As an aside, if anyone has a marquee assembly from a converted Star Wars UR, please let me know. I'd prefer to keep the cracked MQ on my Star Wars for display, and apply the new marquee overlay to something that has already been trashed. Anyway, I'm excited about this. Have a new SW control panel overlay on order as well. Nothing like instant restoration ;-) Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 17 15:01:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 18:00:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710172200.SAA00881@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: fishd Subject: Re: Reproduction Star Wars overlays Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 03:19 PM 10/17/97 -0500, Ray wrote: >You wrote: >> > Any word from anybody on how these came out? I'm thinking of ordering a SW >> > marquee myself... >> >> I pre-ordered a set. Still waiting for it. > >Got mine yesterday. Flight controller overlay is very sharp. Marquee looks >great! Alas, mine was packed poorly so there is a crease right down the middle >Anyway, I'm excited about this. Have a new SW control panel overlay on order >as well. Nothing like instant restoration ;-) Great! I just ordered a set yesterday. Who is selling control panel overlays though? David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! fishd@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 17 18:30:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 18:30:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: "Ghanbari, Ray A., Ph.D." (Ray Ghanbari) Message-Id: <199710180129.UAA08298@feynman.Mayo.EDU> Subject: Re: Reproduction Star Wars overlays To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:29:38 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199710172200.SAA00881@mailrelay.tiac.net> from "fishd" at Oct 17, 97 06:00:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >fishd wrote: > Great! I just ordered a set yesterday. Who is selling control panel overlays > though? I should have clarified. This is a NOS CP overlay, not a reproduction. Rick Schieve turned me onto Pinball Plus, and they happened to have *one* left (sorry guys). FYI, $50 + shipping. Well worth it for me. If someone wants to get a good scan before it gets applied, get in touch and we can make arrangements. I have enough trouble with colors that I am the last person to be trusted with making an archival scan of something like this. I also don't mind holding onto it for a couple months if someone is working on arrangements to have other reproductions made. Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat Oct 18 23:03:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 18 Oct 1997 23:03:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 06:02:40 GMT X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: Reproduction Star Wars overlays Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Any possibility of them doing an Empire Strikes Back marquee? -jeff >You wrote: >> > Any word from anybody on how these came out? I'm thinking of ordering a SW >> > marquee myself... >> >> I pre-ordered a set. Still waiting for it. > >Got mine yesterday. Flight controller overlay is very sharp. Marquee looks >great! Alas, mine was packed poorly so there is a crease right down the >middle >of the marquee. I'm not sure if it will disappear when applied, or if it >will >still be noticable. > >As an aside, if anyone has a marquee assembly from a converted Star Wars UR, >please let me know. I'd prefer to keep the cracked MQ on my Star Wars for >display, and apply the new marquee overlay to something that has already been >trashed. > >Anyway, I'm excited about this. Have a new SW control panel overlay on order >as well. Nothing like instant restoration ;-) > >Ray jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Oct 19 08:39:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 08:38:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <344660E6.639E@erols.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:45:58 -0700 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: exorsisor data ??? References: <199710152112.RAA25890@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9710151618.ZM4723@calcite> <34503598.72121612@tommy.doctord.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Zonn wrote: > >> I've never heard of any other signature analysis beyond the Atari Cat > >> and Cinematronics Exercisor stuff. Was signature analysis used for > >> other games? Good question! Not that I know of... BUT that doesn't mean it cann't be applied to other games or PCBs I routinely use it for early Bally pinball boards (level 17 & 35). > > > >I'm fairly sure Bally/Midway has some sort of signature analysis. Doesn't Ms. > >Pac Man boards and the MCR II stuff have some mystery edges on them for which > >to hook up some test device? > I have done a bit of SA work on Pac boards but most of the problems are easier to find using a scope than doing SA on this system, atleast for me. The 50 pin connector was only meant for a pre chip test of the PCB to ensure all traces were free & unobstructed. Atleast that is the word I got from several Bally/Midway reps over the years. > According to Gaymond, the exorcisor works with Pac Man (maybe he meant > Ms. Pac Man or possibly both) and Missile Command, among others... > Hmmm, I'm very curious in this device too! Perhaps it is the Kurz Kash Test Fixture (TF-650), which is not really a excersizer but simply a power up/test facility to connect a board to buttons, speaker & monitor. The fixture was meant to be used with a SA setup and KK sold a cinematronics exorciser (which I've never seen only advertized in there literature). The only other thing in this vein is the Fluke 9010A Microprocessor Troubleshooter. As mentioned SA has it's limitaitons and is better suited to simpler circuit designs. It is also something that you will only drag out for multiple boards, tougher problems. Believe me, I have 3 (KK, Cat Box & Bug Trap). I have the notes KK issued if anyone is interested.... -- Kev http://www.erols.com/mowerman <- Coin Op Video Game site REMOVE "?" FROM MY E-MAIL Looking for any Pac Man info & a few good PCBs... From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun Oct 19 19:29:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:29:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3447CA5A.7763@erols.com> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:28:10 -0700 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: G-80 Raster Roms? References: <199710152112.RAA25890@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9710151618.ZM4723@calcite> <34503598.72121612@tommy.doctord.com> <344660E6.639E@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I hate to cloud this newsgroup but I did see mention of someone hacking the raster games of the G-80 system. I have Space Oddessy ROMs but I need a good copy of one ROM. Any help appreciated. Thanks, -- Kev http://www.erols.com/mowerman <- Coin Op Video Game site REMOVE "?" FROM MY E-MAIL Looking for any Pac Man info & a few good PCBs... From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 07:02:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 07:02:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <344B65F3.760@an.hp.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:08:51 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Reproduction Star Wars overlays References: <34288bb00.5896@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> <199709241351.JAA14398@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9710151825.ZM8114@calcite> <199710161319.IAA20438@fermat.mayo.edu> <199710172019.PAA03225@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Ray Ghanbari wrote: > > You wrote: > > > Any word from anybody on how these came out? I'm thinking of ordering a SW > > > marquee myself... > > I received my set on Friday. My first impression is that they look excellent. However, to be totally honest, they do not look like exact reproductions. To the casual observer, they probably look dead on, but there are a few minor points that make it stand out when compared to the original. After reading this, you might think I'm being picky. That's probably true, but at least you'll have a more accurate picture of what these look like. The repro marquee uses the wrong shade of blue for both the grid, and the grid background. On the original marquee, they are both a darker shade. The grid lines are thinner on the original. While the copyright messages were removed, they did do an excellent job filling in that area with grid lines so that it matches the left hand side. The yoke sticker also has the wrong shade of blue, and is missing the part number text. Mine was poorly packed as well. The marquee arrived with a small minor crease. :-( I don't think it will be visible, but I'm debating sending it back because I'm not sure. I figure that for $45, I should get a marquee that is properly packed in a box. The darn thing is that Herb actually advertised that he'd be sending these things in a nice BOX, and mine arrived in a flimsy cardboard sandwhich. The crease could have been easily avoided. With that said, they still look amazing, and I'm going to put them on my machine because I'm more interested in cosmetics than originality. This repro beats a cracked marquee or worn yoke sticker any day. I just haven't decided if I'm wacko enough to send the thing back for another one or not. If your machine has a cracked marquee on it, you really won't be disappointed. Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 07:12:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 07:12:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:11:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9710200911.ZM19812@calcite> In-Reply-To: Joel Rosenzweig "Re: Reproduction Star Wars overlays" (Oct 20, 10:08am) References: <34288bb00.5896@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> <199709241351.JAA14398@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9710151825.ZM8114@calcite> <199710161319.IAA20438@fermat.mayo.edu> <199710172019.PAA03225@fermat.mayo.edu> <199710201413.KAA24521@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Reproduction Star Wars overlays Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Oct 20, 10:08am, Joel Rosenzweig wrote: > Subject: Re: Reproduction Star Wars overlays > Ray Ghanbari wrote: > > > > You wrote: > > > > Any word from anybody on how these came out? I'm thinking of ordering a SW > > > > marquee myself... > > > > > Mine was poorly packed as well. The marquee arrived with a small minor > crease. :-( I don't think it will be visible, but I'm debating sending > it back because I'm not sure. I figure that for $45, I should get a > marquee that is properly packed in a box. The darn thing is that Herb > actually advertised that he'd be sending these things in a nice BOX, and > mine arrived in a flimsy cardboard sandwhich. The crease could have > been easily avoided. Yes, it sounds like they pack these things poorly. Rick Schieve showed me the Centipede control panel overlay he got from them, and he was also upset about the crease down the middle of it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 07:20:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 07:20:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199710201417.JAA02929@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: <9710200911.ZM19812@calcite> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Mon, 20 Oct 97 09:18:12 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Reproduction Star Wars overlays References: <34288bb00.5896@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> <199709241351.JAA14398@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9710151825.ZM8114@calcite> <199710161319.IAA20438@fermat.mayo.edu> <199710172019.PAA03225@fermat.mayo.edu> <199710201413.KAA24521@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9710200911.ZM19812@calcite> Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You wrote: > Yes, it sounds like they pack these things poorly. Rick Schieve showed me the > Centipede control panel overlay he got from them, and he was also upset about > the crease down the middle of it. Does the crease show when it is applied? If so, I'm returning it for sure (they were stupid in how they packed these...the flattened box they used had the side creases line up, so it was impossible for it not to bend) If it disappears, I'm not going to be a pain in the ass. I'm tempted to take an iron on low and a towel to see if I can press it out. Unfortunately, unlike Joel's, mine has a major crease in it Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 07:35:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 07:35:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on ftpbox.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:34:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9710200934.ZM20311@calcite> In-Reply-To: Ray Ghanbari "Re: Reproduction Star Wars overlays" (Oct 20, 9:18am) References: <34288bb00.5896@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> <199709241351.JAA14398@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9710151825.ZM8114@calcite> <199710161319.IAA20438@fermat.mayo.edu> <199710172019.PAA03225@fermat.mayo.edu> <199710201413.KAA24521@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9710200911.ZM19812@calcite> <199710201429.KAA25928@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Reproduction Star Wars overlays Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Oct 20, 9:18am, Ray Ghanbari wrote: > Subject: Re: Reproduction Star Wars overlays > You wrote: > > Yes, it sounds like they pack these things poorly. Rick Schieve showed me the > > Centipede control panel overlay he got from them, and he was also upset about > > the crease down the middle of it. > > Does the crease show when it is applied? If so, I'm returning it for sure > (they were stupid in how they packed these...the flattened box they used had > the side creases line up, so it was impossible for it not to bend) He hasn't applied it yet. His wasn't creased REAL bad, so he feels that it should turn out ok (at least it's better than the CURRENT overlay...) > If it disappears, I'm not going to be a pain in the ass. > > I'm tempted to take an iron on low and a towel to see if I can press it out. > Unfortunately, unlike Joel's, mine has a major crease in it In my personal experience with overlays, I've found that creases WILL show, no matter how much you work them before hand. If someone has a sure-fire way of getting rid of them, I'd like to hear it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 07:42:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 07:42:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <344B6F5C.3355@an.hp.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:49:00 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Reproduction Star Wars overlays References: <34288bb00.5896@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> <199709241351.JAA14398@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9710151825.ZM8114@calcite> <199710161319.IAA20438@fermat.mayo.edu> <199710172019.PAA03225@fermat.mayo.edu> <199710201413.KAA24521@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9710200911.ZM19812@calcite> <199710201417.JAA02929@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Ray Ghanbari wrote: > > Does the crease show when it is applied? If so, I'm returning it for sure > (they were stupid in how they packed these...the flattened box they used had > the side creases line up, so it was impossible for it not to bend) > > If it disappears, I'm not going to be a pain in the ass. > > I'm tempted to take an iron on low and a towel to see if I can press it out. > Unfortunately, unlike Joel's, mine has a major crease in it I'd be very leary about trying to remove the crease with an iron. I've built plenty of model airplanes, and irons get wrinkles out of Monokote just fine, but I'd be concerned that you'd melt the marquee no matter how careful you are. This overlay material doesn't impress me as the heat shrinking type. But hey, I'm a software engineer, not a chemical engineer, so what do I know about melting marquees anyway? ;-) Besides, if you wreck it, then you're out $45. It seems safer to just send it back. Maybe he doesn't know that he is packing these poorly. I think I'll give him a call and let him know. I think I'll have him send me another marquee too in exchange for this one if he can manage to send it in a box. Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 08:18:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:17:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:17:01 -0500 Message-Id: <199710201517.KAA04443@moe.works.ti.com> From: Michael Schulz To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In-Reply-To: <344660E6.639E@erols.com> (message from Kev on Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:45:58 -0700) Subject: Re: exorsisor data ??? Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Believe me, I have 3 (KK, Cat Box & Bug Trap). I have the notes KK issued >if anyone is interested.... > I have a Kurz Kasch with a slew of harnesses, but no docs. I'd be interested in any docs, notes, etc. regarding it! Thanks! Mike -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Schulz | Texas Instruments, SpecWorks Software Design Engineer | (972) 927-5847, mschulz@ti.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- The opinions and views expressed are my own, and do ------------- ----------- not necessarily reflect those of Texas Instruments Inc. ----------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 08:29:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:29:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: exorsisor data ??? Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:28:31 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day Kev, If the KK has any Cinematronics specific procedures for SA, David Fish and I would like to at least look at it. Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com >---------- >From: Kev[SMTP:mowerman?@erols.com] >Sent: Thursday, October 16, 1997 11:45 AM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: exorsisor data ??? > >Zonn wrote: > >> >> I've never heard of any other signature analysis beyond the Atari Cat >> >> and Cinematronics Exercisor stuff. Was signature analysis used for >> >> other games? > >Good question! Not that I know of... BUT that doesn't mean it cann't be >applied to >other games or PCBs I routinely use it for early Bally pinball boards (level >17 & 35). > >> > >> >I'm fairly sure Bally/Midway has some sort of signature analysis. Doesn't >>Ms. >> >Pac Man boards and the MCR II stuff have some mystery edges on them for >>which >> >to hook up some test device? >> > >I have done a bit of SA work on Pac boards but most of the problems are >easier to find >using a scope than doing SA on this system, atleast for me. > >The 50 pin connector was only meant for a pre chip test of the PCB to ensure >all traces >were free & unobstructed. Atleast that is the word I got from several >Bally/Midway reps >over the years. > >> According to Gaymond, the exorcisor works with Pac Man (maybe he meant >> Ms. Pac Man or possibly both) and Missile Command, among others... >> > >Hmmm, I'm very curious in this device too! Perhaps it is the Kurz Kash Test >Fixture >(TF-650), which is not really a excersizer but simply a power up/test >facility to >connect a board to buttons, speaker & monitor. The fixture was meant to be >used with a >SA setup and KK sold a cinematronics exorciser (which I've never seen only >advertized in >there literature). > >The only other thing in this vein is the Fluke 9010A Microprocessor >Troubleshooter. > >As mentioned SA has it's limitaitons and is better suited to simpler circuit >designs. >It is also something that you will only drag out for multiple boards, tougher >problems. > Believe me, I have 3 (KK, Cat Box & Bug Trap). I have the notes KK issued >if anyone is >interested.... > >-- >Kev http://www.erols.com/mowerman <- Coin Op Video Game site > >REMOVE "?" FROM MY E-MAIL > Looking for any Pac Man info & a few good PCBs... > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 09:31:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:31:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:31:05 -0500 (CDT) From: To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Reproduction Star Wars overlays In-Reply-To: <344B6F5C.3355@an.hp.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I seem to have missed the start of this thread. Could someone forward me the name, address, phone, etc. for the source of the overlays? I'd like to know what other overlays might be available. I'm specifically looking for one for a Tempest and Asteroids upright, and maybe even a Asteroids Deluxe cocktail if I could be so lucky. My Tempest and Asteroids Deluxe arn't bad but they are starting to crack and the Asteroids painted on panel has surface rust on it. By the way, anybody know of a source for the following: 1/2 player select switches on Asteroids Left, Right, Fire, etc. push button switches for same Nylon bushings for Tempest encoder wheels Thanks, Mike Benedict From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 09:50:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:50:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:51:40 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Sega Multigame (progress...) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hi everyone. Little update on the Sega Multigame board... Space Fury and Eliminator now run on a Star Trek control panel. :-) That means you can play all the Sega G-80 games from a single control panel. Eliminator only makes sense as a one-player game in that case-- does anyone want to make a control panel like: L R T F L R T F o o o o _ o o o o (_) W H I P spin L/W=left/warp R/H=Right/photon T/I=Thrust/impulse F/P=Fire/Phaser If so, I'll try to remap the two-player eliminator controls onto another port to allow the above arrangement to work on all games... I gutted the menu-system 'cause I didn't like how it looked. Probably write another one this week sometime. (Still trying to figure out what to encode in my star-patterns... I've got this Playboy with Farah in it... ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 09:55:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:55:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:56:47 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Space Fury gameplay question... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Ok, who are the Space Fury experts? :-) I was patching the Space Fury binaries this weekend to make it playable on the Star Trek control panel and noticed that I thought was a bug in my translation: If you turn left, thrust and fire at the same time, everything is fine. If you turn right, thrust and fire at the same time, the ship doesn't fire. After about 45 minutes of not finding the problem I went back to try the Dave's "original" Space Fury Cracked ROMs. They do the same thing! (Ah-hah!) Either it's an Emulator problem, a cracked ROM problem, or a feature of the real code. So, can any of you with a "real" hardware-based Space Fury try the above combinations and tell me what it does? Thanks! -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 11:48:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:48:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:49:26 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: New vector monitor stuff... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hi all, I was cleaning my garage (a bit) Sunday and came across a book that I'd bought while in college for some long-forgotten reason... Anyway, I was flipping through it (it's kind-of like those "Encyclopedia of Electronic Circuits" volumes) and came across a couple of designs that might be of interest to anyone thinking about reworking vector monitors or designing a new one. They're on my webpage at: http://www.wwwpro.com/clay/game_tech.html Oh, I also put up everything I had (which isn't much) on Entertainment Science's "Bouncer" game too... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 12:53:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:53:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: exorsisor data ??? Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 19:55:45 GMT Message-ID: <344fb59f.498176669@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:28:31 -0700, "Ozdemir, Steve" wrote: >G'day Kev, > >If the KK has any Cinematronics specific procedures for SA, David Fish >and I would like to at least look at it. It turns out what Gaymond was talking about was the KK. I have not seen all of it (he says there's another box somewhere he has to dig out), but he was told by the guy that he got it from that it acted like an Cinematronics exercisor, and that he (Gaymond) remembers some boards with "Cinematronics" on them. =46rom what I've seen so far it just looks like a universal control = panel, with different adapters for each game. If Gaymond can't cough up an exercisor then the deals off! If he does, I'll let you know how it compares to the Cinematronics one, and if I don't have enough time to look at it I can always send it off to David to let him compare the two. My guess is that there is no Cinematronics exercisor adapter with this thing :^( So maybe I *am* interested in whatever David and Joe come up with! (I might be interested in the KK notes as well!) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 13:02:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:01:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 15:01:19 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: exorsisor data ??? In-Reply-To: <344fb59f.498176669@tommy.doctord.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Zonn wrote: > So maybe I *am* interested in whatever David and Joe come up with! > Now might be a good time to update y'all on my progress with the PLD version of the exorcisor... I've got the verilog model done and working (it looks to me like it's working, anyways) and I ordered my HP 5004 from W.J. Ford last week (it shipped out on Friday) I'm just going to go right ahead and program the PLDs, and build a prototype, and then use my new signature analyzer to make sure I did it right (when the sig. analyzer gets here....It's being shipped parcel post from Canada.....however long that takes.) I'll probably have another update in about a week or so.... Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 14:31:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:31:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 17:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199710202131.RAA27412@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: fishd Subject: Re: Reproduction Star Wars overlays Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 10:49 AM 10/20/97 -0400, Joel wrote: > >Maybe he doesn't know that he is packing these poorly. I think I'll >give him a call and let him know. I think I'll have him send me another >marquee too in exchange for this one if he can manage to send it in a >box. > My Ms. Pac Man C.T. underlay showed up with the same problem, the ink wore off down the center where the cardboard box crease was. I was not amused. We should let him know his packing method, well, to be blunt, sucks. David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! fishd@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 14:35:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:35:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:35:22 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Reproduction Star Wars overlays Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com These sorts of this should be sent in packing TUBES, not flats. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 14:53:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 14:53:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <344BD3C0.4ABB@erols.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 17:57:21 -0400 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: exorsisor data ??? References: <344fb59f.498176669@tommy.doctord.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Zonn wrote: > If Gaymond can't cough up an exercisor then the deals off! If he does, > I'll let you know how it compares to the Cinematronics one, and if I > don't have enough time to look at it I can always send it off to David > to let him compare the two. My guess is that there is no Cinematronics > exercisor adapter with this thing :^( > Never know, we just need one lucky find. I personally have no notes on the Cinematronics excercisor just a list of adapters offered for the KK test fixture that included this gem. Even the paperwork would be interesting to find (and save us a bit of time...) > So maybe I *am* interested in whatever David and Joe come up with! > > (I might be interested in the KK notes as well!) The KK notes are theory of how the SA works & how to use it, I'll need to dig them up (which may be a problem as I'm moving abodes as we speak). The only signatures I've ever seen with the KK stuff were for Galaxian. -- Kev Looking for a few good PCBs! mowerman@erols.com REMOVE THE "?" FROM MY E-MAIL http://www.erols.com/mowerman <- Video game info page From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 20:19:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 20:19:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 22:18:44 -0500 (CDT) From: jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Bizarre Amplifone Problem Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hey all, Here's a real stumper (or maybe not...) The background: I have a good Amplifone Deflection board, a good Amplifone HV board (both tested by me, in my Quantum Cabinet,) an untested Amplifone tube, and a Star Wars cabinet that has a perfectly good and working W.G. monitor in it (i.e. the Star Wars game is 100% working) I'm sure you see where this is going. I put the tube into the Star Wars, hook the good boards up to it, and no workee. I get a picture, and the vectors are razor sharp and beautiful, but they don't even come close to lining up. The "Star Wars" is just a jumble of blue vectors, and you can tell that there is supposed to be text after it, but all of the characters are unrecognizable. Basically, all of the vectors are royally screwed up. I checked the connections at the harness, and they were OK. Since this seems like a serious deflection problem, I checked the voltages across the deflection coils -- I got 24 VAC across one of them (the one that uses the brown and blue wires from the def. board) and 12 VAC across the other (the one that uses the yellow and red wires.) I don't have the schematic in front of me, so I don't know which is which. Just to make sure nothing blew out when I hooked it up to the new tube, I took the whole mess (both boards) back to my Quantum and it fired up just fine (with good vectors.) Is there any defect with the tube that could cause it to display wierd vectors like that? I would think not (maybe a defect with the yoke?) but I've checked and checked and checked the connections and the boards, and I really can't figure out what's up. Any help would be much appreciated. This one's got me really scratching my head.... Thanks, Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 20 21:06:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 21:06:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 23:06:22 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Bizarre Amplifone Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I just realized I measured the wrong voltages across the deflection coils (I pulled out my schematics...) What I "really" measured was between 11 and 12 VAC across each coil. I still have the same problem, so any help would be appreciated... Thanks, Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 21 08:26:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Oct 1997 08:26:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 09:25:08 -0600 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: Bizarre Amplifone Problem Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I had the same problem with one of my star wars. It turned out that the EPROM on the vector generator board was bad, I swapped in a good one and everything was happy again. -jeff >Hey all, > > Here's a real stumper (or maybe not...) > > The background: I have a good Amplifone Deflection board, a >good Amplifone HV board (both tested by me, in my Quantum Cabinet,) an >untested Amplifone tube, and a Star Wars cabinet that has a perfectly >good and working W.G. monitor in it (i.e. the Star Wars game is 100% >working) > > I'm sure you see where this is going. I put the tube into the >Star Wars, hook the good boards up to it, and no workee. > > I get a picture, and the vectors are razor sharp and beautiful, >but they don't even come close to lining up. The "Star Wars" is just a >jumble of blue vectors, and you can tell that there is supposed to be >text after it, but all of the characters are unrecognizable. Basically, >all of the vectors are royally screwed up. > > I checked the connections at the harness, and they were OK. >Since this seems like a serious deflection problem, I checked the >voltages across the deflection coils -- I got 24 VAC across one of them >(the one that uses the brown and blue wires from the def. board) and >12 VAC across the other (the one that uses the yellow and red wires.) I >don't have the schematic in front of me, so I don't know which is which. > > Just to make sure nothing blew out when I hooked it up to the >new tube, I took the whole mess (both boards) back to my Quantum and it >fired up just fine (with good vectors.) > > Is there any defect with the tube that could cause it to display >wierd vectors like that? I would think not (maybe a defect with the >yoke?) but I've checked and checked and checked the connections and the >boards, and I really can't figure out what's up. > >Any help would be much appreciated. This one's got me really scratching >my head.... > >Thanks, > >Joe > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation >Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin >Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com >P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 >------------------------------------------------------------------ jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 21 08:42:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Oct 1997 08:42:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 09:41:48 -0600 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Tech: Wells Gardner problems Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I have a wells monitor in my gravitar, but the pictur was very dark and would change brightness. I replace the caps and some of the resistors and transistors. I still had the same problem. I turned the pots on the neck board and then it went completely dark. I tried to set them back to where they were, but still nothing. I took the monitor out and was running it and I noticed that the HV trip light was on in the HV unit (this is late model HV unit). I adjusted both the HV pot and the HV trip pot with no luck. I swapped the HV unit with a working one and I could only get blue on the screen. I then swapped neck boards and could only get blue and red (no green). I then went to bed (1 AM). So I have 2 problems, 1. The first HV unit thinks the HV is too high and is shutting it self down (I can rewire this to by-pass it if I have to) 2. I can't get green (I've check to make sure the z signal is getting to the socket), Is it possible for one color to be bad in the tube? -jeff jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 21 09:29:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Oct 1997 09:29:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <344CD9DA.3E4A@an.hp.com> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:35:38 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Tech: Wells Gardner problems References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Jeff Hendrix wrote: > > 1. The first HV unit thinks the HV is too high and is shutting it self down > (I can rewire this to by-pass it if I have to) If the first HV unit is shutting itself down, there's most likely a real problem in the HV circuit rather than a fault in the over voltage protection circuit. Bypassing the cutoff circuit seems dangerous because if you allow the HV to run and the HV is set too high, you'll risk X-RAY emissions from your tube. I suppose that as long as you are careful to adjust the HV once you get it running, then you'll be OK. Though, make sure you have your children before attempting this maneouver. :-) > > 2. I can't get green (I've check to make sure the z signal is getting to > the socket), Is it possible for one color to be bad in the tube? Yes. I had a problem like this on a VGA monitor a few years back. Did you try swapping the old neck board back onto the tube to see if the red color now works? It's possible that the pins are simply oxidized and need a good cleaning. Perhaps the wiping action of replacing the neck board was enough to clean the pin for the red signal. I think you can pretty much prove that you have a defective neck board if swapping them again nets only the blue color. You might just check the pots on the board to make sure they still work correctly. Just for grins, make sure that your boardset is actually outputting the green color signal. Check it with a scope. I've had a Star Wars problem where the drive transistor failed on one of the colors. Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 21 10:03:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Oct 1997 10:03:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:02:42 -0500 Message-Id: <199710211702.MAA05954@moe.works.ti.com> From: Michael Schulz To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In-Reply-To: (message from Clay Cowgill on Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:51:40 -0800) Subject: Re: Sega Multigame (progress...) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Eliminator only makes sense as a one-player game in that case-- does anyone >want to make a control panel like: > > L R T F L R T F > o o o o _ o o o o > (_) W H I P > spin > I'd be much more interested in this type of layout! -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Schulz | Texas Instruments, SpecWorks Software Design Engineer | (972) 927-5847, mschulz@ti.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- The opinions and views expressed are my own, and do ------------- ----------- not necessarily reflect those of Texas Instruments Inc. ----------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 21 11:07:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Oct 1997 11:06:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <344CF0C3.447B@an.hp.com> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:13:23 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Testing BU406D's References: <199710211702.MAA05954@moe.works.ti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com How have you all gone about testing the BU406D? When I remove this component and put it in my transistor tester, the tester shows a diode drop in all combinations. When yours have failed, do they open up, or short, or ??? I have three more Amplifone HV units that I'm trying to repair. I suspect the HV transformer in all cases, but I'd like to know how to tell if the BU406D is at fault or not. One last thing .. I have 4 HV boards in total, all with red Hv transformers. One of the HV units actually works. (I know, a rare breed) Similar to what Clay mapped out with a DMM for the Wells Gardner HV transformer, I performed similar type measurements on the Amplifone HV transformer units. Every last one of them (including the working one) had the same measurements. Yet, only one of them actually works. The ohm test seemed pretty logical to me, and it sounded like it would be a surefire way to detect an open or shorted winding ... but apparently, that's not the whole story. If the windings appear to be good, what else is wrong with these transformers? The BU406D's that I can't test? :-) :-) :-) I have not removed the HV transformers and swapped them into the known good HV board, but I have checked every component except for the BU406D and MC1, whatever that is?? Aside from that, these units have basically been rebuilt! Any ideas? Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 21 11:41:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Oct 1997 11:41:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:40:05 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Testing BU406D's In-Reply-To: <344CF0C3.447B@an.hp.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, Joel Rosenzweig wrote: > How have you all gone about testing the BU406D? The BU406D is a wierd one. There shouldn't be a diode drop from C -> B, or from C -> E (I think I got that right...the case where the diode across C and E is reverse biased should be infinite impedance, of course, is what I'm saying.) Even on good BU406D's, the B -> E and E -> B will show low impedance, because there is an internal resistor (in addition to the diode) from B <-> E The way I fixed a bunch of HV units: Test the BU406D. If it tests bad, throw it out (obviously) if it tests good, you're still not out of the woods yet, because I had a couple that caused no HV, even though they tested good. > When yours have failed, do they open up, or short, or ??? Short from C <-> E just like most other transistors... > I have three more Amplifone HV units that I'm trying to repair. I > suspect the HV transformer in all cases, but I'd like to know how to > tell if the BU406D is at fault or not. No HV, heater, etc. Same symptoms as the bad HV transformer, shorted regulators, etc. > One last thing .. I have 4 HV boards in total, all with red Hv > transformers. One of the HV units actually works. (I know, a rare > breed) Similar to what Clay mapped out with a DMM for the Wells Gardner > HV transformer, I performed similar type measurements on the Amplifone > HV transformer units. Every last one of them (including the working > one) had the same measurements. Yet, only one of them actually works. > The ohm test seemed pretty logical to me, and it sounded like it would > be a surefire way to detect an open or shorted winding ... but > apparently, that's not the whole story. If the windings appear to be > good, what else is wrong with these transformers? The BU406D's that I > can't test? :-) :-) :-) I measured the same on good and bad Penn-Tran/Wintron HV units. I think what sometimes happens is that the insulation between turns breaks down, and the effect is that the transformer has fewer windings, so the HV drops. From the schematic of the HV unit from Wintron, it looks like there is a diode IN the HV transformer, so maybe that breaks down too, but I'd guess you could test for that > I have not removed the HV transformers and swapped them into the known > good HV board, but I have checked every component except for the BU406D > and MC1, whatever that is?? Aside from that, these units have basically > been rebuilt! Any ideas? I just repaired a half-dozen of these boards, and the most common failures are the 7824 and 7924 regulators (The 7924s failed in all but one instance) If you're getting good +/- 24V, then try the BU406D. I found a bunch of creative replacements that previous techs had done (but all incorrect) for the BU406D, so check to make sure that the transistor that's there is actually a BU406D. If you've got those cheesy brown jumpers (W1, etc) on the board, check them out, because they DO open up. If you're not getting +/- 24V (or the +/- 30V input to the board) check the brown jumpers on the deflection board. I had this happen in 1 case. Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 21 13:03:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:03:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199710212004.QAA25433@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Sega Multigame (progress...) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 16:04:20 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199710211702.MAA05954@moe.works.ti.com> from "Michael Schulz" at Oct 21, 97 12:02:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > > > > L R T F L R T F > > o o o o _ o o o o > > (_) W H I P > > spin Why stop with sega? I had thought about a layout like this: L R J T F L R J T F o o O o o .1 o o O o o .2 o _ o S (_)spin S Made from a Space Duel panel, where the J's are joysticks added for black widow, and the spinner is added for Tempest. There is room on the TOP of the panel for the sticks, and probably the spinner. The bottom is too tight, unless you replace the buttons with the newer smaller ones, and even then I'm not sure the sticks would fit. I'm not sure, but I don't think there is enough vertical clearance for the spinner (assuming a Tempest spinner). If there was more room, you could put a trackball in place of the spinner to accomodate Quantum ;-) Just a though... Anyone know if all the stuff would fit? -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 21 13:31:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Oct 1997 13:31:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199710212025.PAA22201@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: <199710212004.QAA25433@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Tue, 21 Oct 97 15:25:21 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Multigame (progress...) References: <199710212004.QAA25433@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You wrote: > Just a though... Anyone know if all the stuff would fit? This stuff gets out of control very quickly. How about this? Find a trashed cp for (insert your cabinet here) Cut out two 10x9" rectangles Have a pile of 10x9" metal inserts fabricated Put different control configs on each. "Standardize" the pinout for each control panel module type Swap in when you need them Viola! Modularized control panel with something that is at least close in "look and feel" to the original game with less than 2 minutes to swap configs. My 2000 millicents worth for today (BTW, anyone have a Blasteroids kit (board, wiring harness, encoders, marquee) they want to sell to Presto's insurance company?? ;-) Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 21 14:15:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:15:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199710212116.RAA27744@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Sega Multigame (progress...) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:16:30 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199710212025.PAA22201@fermat.mayo.edu> from "Ray Ghanbari" at Oct 21, 97 03:25:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > You wrote: > > Just a though... Anyone know if all the stuff would fit? > > This stuff gets out of control very quickly. How about this? > > Find a trashed cp for (insert your cabinet here) > > Cut out two 10x9" rectangles > > Have a pile of 10x9" metal inserts fabricated > > Put different control configs on each. > > "Standardize" the pinout for each control panel module type > > Swap in when you need them You've obviously been over to Ricks place :-) That's exactly what he did for his 4-player JAMA cabinet. I dunno if he's got spinner inserts, but he does have trackballs for it. He told me it kinda sucks because he's always got to put it "back" to regular controls after playing something different. For those who haven't seen it, he took a (Vindicators?) cabinet and put a 25inch monitor in it - there was room around the border. He cut the top off where the controls were and put on a long (extended off the side) box on it for 4 sets of controls. the top of the "box" flips up via hinges so you can connect the "standard" control panel connectors and pull out the mini-panel inserts. He also cut out the front of the cabinet and replaced it with double doors that cover almost the entire front. There are many shelves inside which hold about 20 boards - all with the same pinout or an adapter to JAMA. A long "cable" can be moved around and plugged onto any of the boards. BTW, SPLAT works by pairing the P1P2 & P3P4 joysticks for the 2 players. If you're going to swap controls, then you may as well swap boards too and forget the menu software. But I thought the goal here was to make an idiot-proof system :-) Of course an idiot would ask what ALL the extra controls do for every game ;-) -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 21 14:20:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:20:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 16:20:23 -0500 Message-Id: <199710212120.QAA06153@moe.works.ti.com> From: Michael Schulz To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In-Reply-To: <199710212004.QAA25433@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> (message from Paul Kahler on Tue, 21 Oct 1997 16:04:20 -0500 (EDT)) Subject: Re: Sega Multigame (progress...) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Why stop with sega? I had thought about a layout like this: > > > L R J T F L R J T F > o o O o o .1 o o O o o > .2 > o _ o > S (_)spin S > >Made from a Space Duel panel, where the J's are joysticks added for >black widow, and the spinner is added for Tempest. There is room on >the TOP of the panel for the sticks, and probably the spinner. The >bottom is too tight, unless you replace the buttons with the newer >smaller ones, and even then I'm not sure the sticks would fit. I'm >not sure, but I don't think there is enough vertical clearance for >the spinner (assuming a Tempest spinner). If there was more room, you >could put a trackball in place of the spinner to accomodate Quantum ;-) > That's along the lines of what I'd like to see too. Check out Ian Boffin's excellent multi-atari-vector control panel overlay at: http://magenta.com/havoc/atari/vector/miscgraphics/ians_cpanel.gif or http://magenta.com/havoc/atari/vector/html/vector_collector.html It's very similar to what you're describing. Mike -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Schulz | Texas Instruments, SpecWorks Software Design Engineer | (972) 927-5847, mschulz@ti.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- The opinions and views expressed are my own, and do ------------- ----------- not necessarily reflect those of Texas Instruments Inc. ----------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 21 23:24:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 21 Oct 1997 23:24:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 01:23:47 -0500 (CDT) From: jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Bizarre Amplifone Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, Jeff Hendrix wrote: > I had the same problem with one of my star wars. > It turned out that the EPROM on the vector generator board was bad, I > swapped in a good one and everything was happy again. > Was it the case that it worked in a WG and didn't work in an Amplifone? (the boards of which work in another game which uses an Amplifone.) I wanted to test to make sure something freaky didn't happen to the SW board while I was swapping monitors, etc, so I dragged the WG that was originally in the SW to the back of the cabinet, and plugged the game into it. It fired up with a perfect picture. I plug the game back into the Amplifone that is in the cabinet now, and I get the funky vectors. ...I'm still scratching my head, so I would still appreciate any help. THis just doesn't make any sense. ...And Jeff, if this was the exact problem that you were having, please let me know. Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 22 10:46:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Oct 1997 10:45:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 11:44:12 -0600 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: Bizarre Amplifone Problem Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Mine was displaying shapes so bad that I couldn't recognize them. It was on a wells gardner and I suspected the monitor, until I tried a different boardset and everything looked fine. Did you say your amplifone works fine on a different game? (hmmm... maybe your star wars doesn't want an amplifone in it) thats a tough one. -jeff Come on Clay, come up with an answer. >On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, Jeff Hendrix wrote: > >> I had the same problem with one of my star wars. >> It turned out that the EPROM on the vector generator board was bad, I >> swapped in a good one and everything was happy again. >> > > Was it the case that it worked in a WG and didn't work in an >Amplifone? (the boards of which work in another game which uses an >Amplifone.) I wanted to test to make sure something freaky didn't happen >to the SW board while I was swapping monitors, etc, so I dragged the WG >that was originally in the SW to the back of the cabinet, and plugged the >game into it. It fired up with a perfect picture. I plug the game back >into the Amplifone that is in the cabinet now, and I get the funky >vectors. > > ...I'm still scratching my head, so I would still appreciate any >help. THis just doesn't make any sense. > > ...And Jeff, if this was the exact problem that you were having, >please let me know. > >Joe jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 22 11:11:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Oct 1997 11:11:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971022131145.0093dd20@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 13:12:03 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: G-08 problems... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Ye wise ones - I received a complete Space Fury a couple days ago (no cabinet - just parts) from Bob Wood. He said it worked when he sent it, but now no worky. I am focusing on the monitor. I has HV and I can hear the "clatter" of the vectors being drawn, but there is no picture. This being the first G-08 (-003) that I've worked on, I have no real idea where to start. Adjusting the brightness has no effect. Bob told me that it only had half a screen when he sent it, so I am going to pull and check the deflection transistors, but beyond that I need some help. It is getting ~50 volts and I have double and triple checked the fuses and wiring to the monitor...but have not checked the x-y outputs on a scope. Any help would be greatly appreciated... Mit Matelske From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 22 12:31:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Oct 1997 12:31:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Comments: ( Received on motgate.mot.com from client mothost.mot.com, sender jenison@cig.mot.com ) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 14:30:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9710221430.ZM12058@calcite> In-Reply-To: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) "G-08 problems..." (Oct 22, 1:12pm) References: <199710221820.OAA15925@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: G-08 problems... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Speaking of G-08 problems... I fired up my Eliminator 4-player on Monday for the first time since I moved it 3 months ago. No picture. Deflection chatter and HV, but there is not what I would call a picture on the screen. It's hard to explain, but the way the big green, blue, and red blobs show up on the screen, you'd think it was a raster monitor. The monitor hangs with the neck toward the bottom, and I've heard of things "falling" into the guns from inside the tube, so maybe this is what's causing the problem. When I shut off the monitor, for a brief second I see a vector line streak across the screen. Boards are known good (tried several sets). Any ideas would be appreciated. Where's David Shuman when you need him! :-) ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 22 12:38:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Oct 1997 12:38:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 12:38:12 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: G-08 problems... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com "No picture. Deflection chatter and HV, but there is not what I would call a picture on the screen. It's hard to explain, but the way the big green, blue, and red blobs show up on the screen, you'd think it was a raster monitor." Has the yoke slid down the neck of the tube? Tried adjusting the Focus? Checked that the Focus lead hasn't come loose? From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 22 14:16:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Oct 1997 14:16:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 17:15:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Dangerwil@aol.com Message-ID: <971022171046_241519413@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Bizarre Amplifone Problem Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hey guys, I have been experiencing a weird problem with the WG vector mons. It only appears in a fast drawing game like SW and worse in ESB. The vectors shake really bad and smear down the screen in the middle. From experimenting, I replaced every component one at a time from a good monitor and found all the componenets to be good. It turns out that the tube is the culprit. I even swapped yokes and that wasn't the problem. I got the ampliphone yoke to almost converge, on the WG tube, but the lines are too far off for me to be happy with it, and still smearing. And the darn tube works perfect in Tempest. Luckily I have a few ampliphone tubes. Those guys really look sweet for SW. Just my 2 cents. Bill From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 22 15:19:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Oct 1997 15:19:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 16:18:47 -0600 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Tube pinout Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Does anybody know if the pinout on a wells 19k49xx tube is the same as on the amplifone? (I got a 25" tube from a 720 and am going to put it in my star wars cockpit) -jeff jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 22 16:16:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Oct 1997 16:16:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 16:17:07 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Medium Resolution tubes... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hi All, Just some commerce-stuff for the vectorlist crowd... I have about 3 *new* medium resolution 19" monitors (got 'em from an ex-Atari employee) that have been sitting in my garage for far too long now. They're from Paperboy/Toobin-vintage games, but I don't have any working system-2 stuff to test 'em on. I want to get rid of them. So, if anyone wants 'em I'll sell them for $50 a pop plus shipping (probably $30 each by UPS?). (You're welcome to pick them up too.) If anyone wants to try an Amplifone neckboard/yoke transplant with a new Med-res CRT here's you chance. ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 22 20:39:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 22 Oct 1997 20:39:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <344EC67D.1FE5@voicenet.com> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 23:37:33 -0400 From: "Bruce D. Canino" Organization: T.S.P.S. Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Medium Resolution tubes... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Hi All, > > Just some commerce-stuff for the vectorlist crowd... > > I have about 3 *new* medium resolution 19" monitors (got 'em from an > ex-Atari employee) that have been sitting in my garage for far too long > now. They're from Paperboy/Toobin-vintage games, but I don't have any > working system-2 stuff to test 'em on. I want to get rid of them. > > So, if anyone wants 'em I'll sell them for $50 a pop plus shipping > (probably $30 each by UPS?). (You're welcome to pick them up too.) I am interested in getting one if you still have them. I am in NJ, I am not sure where you are but USP is also fine. Bruce Canino > > If anyone wants to try an Amplifone neckboard/yoke transplant with a new > Med-res CRT here's you chance. ;-) > > -Clay > > Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager > _______________________________________________________________________ > /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com > \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 23 10:20:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 23 Oct 1997 10:20:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 10:21:24 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Sega Multigame (and cheats) Cc: mab22@po.cwru.edu Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Ok, software patching is done! Star Trek, Zektor, Tac/Scan, Eliminator, and Space Fury now all play from a single control panel without any additional hardware required. I stayed with the Star Trek control panel as the "standard". I patched Star Trek to reverse the Impulse/Phaser buttons, so that all games use the same "thrust" and "fire" buttons. Star Trek Control Panel: Warp Photon Impulse Fire --------------------------------------------------------- Star Trek= warp photon impulse fire Tac/Scan= -- -- add ship fire Zektor= -- -- thrust fire Space Fury= left right thrust fire Eliminator= left right thrust fire (You can physically swap the impulse and phaser buttons on the control panel so that the labels match up. If you want to support 2player Eliminator you can do so by adding four more buttons and cabling them over to the CPU board as normal.) In the process of patching Star Trek I needed to patch the high-score initial routine. Problem is, Star Trek has "real" scores on power-up so you actually have to play for a while to get on the high-score list. Since the controls on the emulator are pretty twitchy I was having a tough time getting a high score. I ended up making a couple of "modifications"... Namely I made it so that I had unlimited photon torpedo's and my shield would only decrease due to collisions, not just enemy fire. I can post the hacked ROMs if anyone is interested. (and offsets and patches, Mike. ;-) -Clay P.S. Al-- that spinner control bug is the weirdest thing I've seen in a long time. It SHOULD WORK exactly as is. I tried everthing I could think of-- reversing bit order, shifting the count, changing direction bits. Weird. Hmmmm. One thing I didn't try-- complement the data word. Better give that a shot... ;-) Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 23 10:29:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 23 Oct 1997 10:28:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 10:28:56 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Multigame (and cheats) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com "P.S. Al-- that spinner control bug is the weirdest thing I've seen in a long time. It SHOULD WORK exactly as is. I tried everthing I could think of-- reversing bit order, shifting the count, changing direction bits. Weird. Hmmmm. One thing I didn't try-- complement the data word. Better give that a shot... ;-)" I should take a look at the MAME sources to see if they did any hacking on it. I had some trouble getting it to work at all.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 23 10:52:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 23 Oct 1997 10:52:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 10:53:13 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Sega Multigame (and cheats) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >"P.S. Al-- that spinner control bug is the weirdest thing I've seen in a >long time. It SHOULD WORK exactly as is. I tried everthing I could think >of-- reversing bit order, shifting the count, changing direction bits. >Weird. Hmmmm. One thing I didn't try-- complement the data word. Better >give that a shot... ;-)" > >I should take a look at the MAME sources to see if they did any hacking >on it. I had some trouble getting it to work at all.. Ahh, not a bad idea. Last I tried it it behaved just like segaEmu... The one behavior that I'm at a loss to explain was the only time I saw the ship turn "smoothly". (Instead of the current 1/8 circle turns.) I wasn't masking off some bits while doing a shift and I got a sequence from the "spinner" of something like: 00000001 00000011 00000111 00001111 00011111 00111111 01111111 11111111 11111111 11111111 11111110 11111100 11111000 11110000 11100000 11000000 10000000 00000000 This (or something similar) made the enterprise rotate smoothly about 12 degrees. Weird. No way an 'LS393 should ever do anything like that. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 23 14:22:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 23 Oct 1997 14:22:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 14:23:23 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Sega Multigame (and cheats) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Clay wrote: >Hmmmm. One thing I didn't try-- complement the data word. Better >give that a shot... ;-) You know, as soon as I wrote that I knew that was the fix... Tried it at home over lunch and it works. This is a the snippet from main.c in Al's source with my changes (and addition of warp and photon support): ------- case STARTREK: case TACSCAN: case ZEKTOR: if(outRegF8 & 1){ // if we're reading the switches (0xff) c = 0; if(start1) c |= 0x01; if(start2) c |= 0x02; if(fire) c |= 0x04; // CNC 10-14-97 if(thrust) c |= 0x08; // CNC 10-14-97 if(warp) c |= 0x20; // CNC 10-14-97 if(photon) c |= 0x10; // CNC 10-14-97 return(c); } else { // if we're reading the spinner (0xfe) if(left) { spinner+=10; dir = 0; } // CNC 10-23-97 if(right){ spinner+=10; dir = 1; } // CNC 10-23-97 return((~spinner << 1) | dir); // CNC 10-23-97 } ----- I'm adding 10 to the spinner count just because it seems like a good "playable" value for Star Trek and Tac/Scan, dunno about Zektor. I'd suspect it's alright. I don't have a great explanation why that works. The only thing I can think of is that there's an inverting buffer somewhere that's changing the output from the 74LS393 on the single player control interface. My schematic says it's using a 74ls244, but maybe they're populated with 74ls240's? Anyway, this works. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 23 20:36:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 23 Oct 1997 20:35:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 22:35:20 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Bizarre Amplifone Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hey all, OK, I finally got a chance to move my Quantum inside, next to my Star Wars. I hooked the outputs of both Amplifone boards in my Star Wars up to the Amplifone tube in the Quantum, and guess what? I got good vectors! So, that means that the problem is with the tube somewhere. Since it looks like I'm not getting proper deflection, I'd guess the yoke is bad (How does a yoke go bad?) Any other ideas? Does anyone have a spare Amplifone yoke they'd be willing to sell? Still shrugging in disbelief.... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 24 13:09:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:09:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Bizarre Amplifone Problem Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 20:11:47 GMT Message-ID: <3459ff04.247991232@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Thu, 23 Oct 1997 22:35:20 -0500 (CDT), wrote: > >Hey all, > > OK, I finally got a chance to move my Quantum inside, next to my >Star Wars. I hooked the outputs of both Amplifone boards in my Star = Wars >up to the Amplifone tube in the Quantum, and guess what? I got good >vectors! > > So, that means that the problem is with the tube somewhere. Since >it looks like I'm not getting proper deflection, I'd guess the yoke is = bad >(How does a yoke go bad?) A short between windings either caused mechanically (rubbing / being dropped) or chemically (oxidation of the varnish causes it to flake off, or excessive heat causes it to turn brittle and flake off). You can very closely inspect it and see if you can't find any bad spots, all you'd have to do is find the short and separate the windings and it would be fine. A short in the winding usually has the appearance of very bad trapezoiding (if that can be used a verb), but that's on a raster monitor, I don't know how that would look on a vector monitor. -Z <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 24 14:36:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:35:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: "Rhea, Cristopher J." (Cris Rhea) Message-Id: <199710242134.QAA26673@sijer.Mayo.EDU> Subject: AD561J again.... To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 16:34:40 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I had subscribed to this list via the web interface on spies. Didn't work so well.... Grrrr. I finally got on by emailing to majordomo directly... I posed the question of finding AD561's and Ray said that several people offered suggestions... Unfortunately, I didn't see any of them. Anyone keep an archive of this list and can send me the responses? Sorry for the wasted bandwidth.... --- Cris ----------------------------------------------------------- Cristopher J. Rhea Mayo Foundation Research Computing Facility Guggenheim 1001B crhea@Mayo.EDU Rochester, MN 55905 Fax: (507) 266-4486 (507) 284-0587 ----------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 24 15:12:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 24 Oct 1997 15:12:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 15:12:20 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: test Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 24 15:12:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 24 Oct 1997 15:12:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 15:12:47 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: archive Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com the mailing list archive is on www.spies.com From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 24 15:20:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 24 Oct 1997 15:20:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: test Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 15:19:33 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day folks, I'm not sure if the vectorlist is the appropriate place for tests. There's already enough traffic on this email list, and with the number of people reading these tests just chew up too much collective time. 8^) 8^) 8^) (For the humor impaired, I'm bored on a Friday afternoon and am trying to lampoon the "touchy" attitude in RGVAC/RGVAM.) Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com >---------- >From: aek@goonsquad.spies.com[SMTP:aek@goonsquad.spies.com] >Sent: Friday, October 24, 1997 3:12 PM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: test > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 24 15:24:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 24 Oct 1997 15:24:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 15:24:20 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: RE: test Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com sigh... I was trying to figure out why my reply message saying you have to send a "subs*ribe" message wasn't going out. Turns out the mailing list program will bounce a message that has the "s" word in it. and the full url for the mailing list archive is: http://www.spies.com/arcade/vectorlist/index.html --al From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 24 16:04:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 24 Oct 1997 16:04:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 16:05:35 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: test Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >G'day folks, > >I'm not sure if the vectorlist is the appropriate place for tests. >There's already enough traffic on this email list, and with the number >of people reading these tests just chew up too much collective time. *Gaaahhhh* I subscribed to the emulator@fensende.com mailing list to see what's going on over there. Geez, ton of traffic. Bunch of idiots though too. I recognized a few people (Zonn, Neil, Al McCormick) but the S/N ratio is pretty bad. For what it's worth though, I managed to get the DOS version of MAME to act as a test-bed for my menu-system code for the Sega multigame. Ob. Weirdness-- I replace ROM 969.bin for Space Fury with my menu-code and use MAME to emulate the hardware. c:\mame29\mame spacfury -1024 Won't work. It craps out complaining that the ROM checksum is bad. cd \mame29 mame spacfury -1024 Works. It gives a warning about the ROM checksum, but lets you continue. Weird. -Clay P.S. Zonn-- better tell Neil to lay off the caffeine or something. His "Toobin" dream is probably some sort of warning sign... Right before the voices start telling him to "clean all the guns". ;-) Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 24 16:21:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 24 Oct 1997 16:21:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@concentric.net (Zonn) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: test Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 23:23:45 GMT Message-ID: <345b2cc0.259701026@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Fri, 24 Oct 1997 16:05:35 -0800, Clay Cowgill wrote: >>G'day folks, >> >>I'm not sure if the vectorlist is the appropriate place for tests. >>There's already enough traffic on this email list, and with the number >>of people reading these tests just chew up too much collective time. > >*Gaaahhhh* > >I subscribed to the emulator@fensende.com mailing list to see what's = going >on over there. Geez, ton of traffic. Bunch of idiots though too. I >recognized a few people (Zonn, Neil, Al McCormick) but the S/N ratio is >pretty bad. =46unny, I don't subscribe to that list... wait... people aren't taking about me behind my back are they!!??? Oh my god! Any chance I had of sleeping tonight has just been destroyed. ;^) >For what it's worth though, I managed to get the DOS version of MAME to = act >as a test-bed for my menu-system code for the Sega multigame. > >Ob. Weirdness-- I replace ROM 969.bin for Space Fury with my menu-code = and >use MAME to emulate the hardware. > >c:\mame29\mame spacfury -1024 > >Won't work. It craps out complaining that the ROM checksum is bad. > >cd \mame29 >mame spacfury -1024 > >Works. It gives a warning about the ROM checksum, but lets you = continue. >Weird. > >-Clay > >P.S. Zonn-- better tell Neil to lay off the caffeine or something. His >"Toobin" dream is probably some sort of warning sign... Right before = the >voices start telling him to "clean all the guns". ;-) Hmmm... Neil does kinda seem like the kinda guy that might own guns -- that might need cleaning someday. And he knows my address!!! ;^) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ concentric . net -------| // \\/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 24 23:50:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 24 Oct 1997 23:49:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 06:49:28 GMT X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: AD561J again.... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I was looking for one of these a while back, this is what I came up with (If I remeber right, they were about $20 each) -jeff Key Electronics: http://www.keyelectronics.com or (941) 389 9348 as of 2/6/97 they have 20 AD561J parts in stock. You'll have to call for a price. Rochester Electronics: http://www.rocelec.com or (508) 462 9332 as of 2/6/97 they have 100+ AD561JN(?) parts in stock. Call to get price and verify that it's the right part. Jerome Industries: http://www.sure.net/~jerome or (805) 527 5893 didn't find it in their inventory.dbf file, but they could be a good source for other parts Mushroom Components: http://www.mushroom.co.uk or (+44) 1933 275345 didn't find it They're far away, but they have an impressive stock of obsolete parts. >I had subscribed to this list via the web interface on spies. >Didn't work so well.... Grrrr. >I finally got on by emailing to majordomo directly... > >I posed the question of finding AD561's and Ray said that several people >offered suggestions... > >Unfortunately, I didn't see any of them. Anyone keep an archive of this >list and can send me the responses? > >Sorry for the wasted bandwidth.... > >--- Cris > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Cristopher J. Rhea Mayo Foundation > Research Computing Facility Guggenheim 1001B > crhea@Mayo.EDU Rochester, MN 55905 > Fax: (507) 266-4486 (507) 284-0587 > ----------------------------------------------------------- jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 27 17:13:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:12:42 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@supra.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 05:13:59 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Multigame webpage (and sega vector generator stuff) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I put together a little webpage with the Sega Multigame stuff on it. It has progress estimates and some screen shots from the menu-system. http://www.wwwpro.com/clay/sega_multigame.html I finished about 95% of the menusystem this weekend. (Started over.) It looks pretty good-- not as nice as originally planned, but pretty good. I had a REALLY cool looking menu (all on one screen), multiple layers of spinning twinkling stars and whatnot only to discover a "technical innacuracy" of the current emulators... Seems that the Sega vector generator has a certain number of "ticks" that it uses to clock the counters every refresh period. Well, even if there's plenty of free memory in your display list if you're drawing big (or complex) stuff, it's possible to run out of vector-time while drawing. So, my extra-cool menu system came out with a cool star background and about one line of text when running on the "real" hardware. Whoops. :-/ I don't know if anyone other than I will ever program this thing, but if you do it's worth keeping in mind. Geeky observation of the weekend: If you run the G-80 hardware with an oscilloscope in XY mode and with no z-input the last position of the beam on the frame will leave a bright dot on the screen. How bright this dot is is proportional to how much "free" vector generator time is left. (Since it just sits there when the display list is done drawing...) Dimmer the dot, the less vector time you have "left" in your display list. -Clay P.S. The current menu is actually pretty nice-- spinning star background changes colors, press P1 Start to move the arrows, P2 Start starts the game or selects the current menu item. If anyone wants to see it on MAME or whatever let me know and I'll post some ROMs... Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 27 17:55:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:55:37 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 17:55:34 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Multigame webpage (and sega vector generator stuff) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com well, I would like to try it.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon Oct 27 21:33:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 21:33:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:32:43 -0500 (EST) From: Dangerwil@aol.com Message-ID: <971027232617_967386658@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Need a Asteroids EHT Assembly? Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I just dumpster dove for 6 old asteroids EHT cages. Sitting on top were two WG Color EHT cages :: ) :: ) !!! NFS. If you need a spare b/w cage, let me know, we can trade for one, etc... All of them look in good shape, no burnt resistors or cracked flybacks. They seem to be interchangeable with all versions of the monitors, anyways, I have never run into a problem. Untested. Bill From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 28 16:04:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:02:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3456862F.5B32C0BF@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:41:22 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: G-08 problems... References: <199710221820.OAA15925@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9710221430.ZM12058@calcite> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hi! This is where a 'scope is handy... however if you have an ac voltmeter you could check the output/input for the x and y deflection to the monitor. What voltages are you getting? The DC level should be 0.00 volts, if it is higher or lower, you might have a board that is driving the image offscreen. Always check the monitor board for solder connections on the pins for any plugs on hte mother board, or any board in the monitor that is single sided soldered... John :-#)# Mark Jenison wrote: > Speaking of G-08 problems... > > I fired up my Eliminator 4-player on Monday for the first time since I moved it > 3 months ago. > > No picture. Deflection chatter and HV, but there is not what I would call a > picture on the screen. It's hard to explain, but the way the big green, blue, > and red blobs show up on the screen, you'd think it was a raster monitor. > > The monitor hangs with the neck toward the bottom, and I've heard of things > "falling" into the guns from inside the tube, so maybe this is what's causing > the problem. > > When I shut off the monitor, for a brief second I see a vector line streak > across the screen. Boards are known good (tried several sets). Any ideas > would be appreciated. > > Where's David Shuman when you need him! :-) > > ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue Oct 28 16:32:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:32:41 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <345686F1.8AF46252@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 16:44:36 -0800 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Update on my web page re: replacing Ampliphone, etc, HV units. References: <199710221820.OAA15925@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9710221430.ZM12058@calcite> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Just thought that a few of you would be interested in a copy of the info I sent out last winter on how to replace your HV section with one scarfed from a standard raster scan RGB monitor used in most video games. I chose the Wells Gardner for longevity, but no reason an Electrohome can't be used if re-capped... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 29 13:07:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:06:24 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 15:05:51 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Battlezone AVG problems... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hey all, I've got a Battlezone board which appears to have AVG problems. Everything plays fine, but I get no video (in a known good monitor.) It looks like the culprit is the Yout, which sits around 0VAC. The Xout is around 3VAC. I tried to debug this, but I really didn't get anywhere. I checked that the inputs to the DACs were not stuck, and that the outputs of the DACs weren't at 0 (They were around 3 or 4 VAC when the game was is self-test mode.) I checked to make sure the pots on the board weren't open, etc. The game passes all the self-tests. I normally would just "shotgun" everything that's left (I think there are about 6 other chips in the AVG, besides the 2 DACs,) but I really hate desoldering from Atari boards (They've got to be the cheesiest boards I've ever worked with) so I'd like to minimize the desoldering if possible. Any ideas of what's more likely to go bad than anything else (I think I'm left with 2 Op-amps per channel and 1 analog switch per channel?) or how I can test the intermediate voltages? Thanks, Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 29 13:26:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:26:29 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3457AB94.2167@an.hp.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:33:08 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Battlezone AVG problems... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote: > > Hey all, > > I've got a Battlezone board which appears to have AVG problems. > Everything plays fine, but I get no video (in a known good monitor.) It > looks like the culprit is the Yout, which sits around 0VAC. The Xout is > around 3VAC. I tried to debug this, but I really didn't get anywhere. I > checked that the inputs to the DACs were not stuck, and that the outputs > of the DACs weren't at 0 (They were around 3 or 4 VAC when the game was > is self-test mode.) I checked to make sure the pots on the board weren't > open, etc. The game passes all the self-tests. > > I normally would just "shotgun" everything that's left (I think > there are about 6 other chips in the AVG, besides the 2 DACs,) but I > really hate desoldering from Atari boards (They've got to be the cheesiest > boards I've ever worked with) so I'd like to minimize the desoldering if > possible. Any ideas of what's more likely to go bad than anything else (I > think I'm left with 2 Op-amps per channel and 1 analog switch per > channel?) or how I can test the intermediate voltages? > > Thanks, > > Joe I had lots of practice with Battlezone. :-( On the three boardsets I worked on, one of them had a bad DAC, one had a bad analog switch, and the other had bad op-amps. The biggest failure I've found on the Atari vectors has been the op-amps (if I include all Atari vector games I've worked on). I understand your hesitancy to just go bonzaii and replace everything, but unfortunately, those parts that are left are still big culprits in their own rights and need to be checked. Though, I'd start with the op-amps first. In fact, I just had a speech failure last weekend on my Black Knight pinball. It turned out to be a 1458 op-amp. At least there are no analog switches to fool with. I haven't figured out how to test those things appropriately other than to "swap and see" if it works. Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 29 13:50:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:50:17 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:49:46 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Battlezone AVG problems... In-Reply-To: <3457AB94.2167@an.hp.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Joel Rosenzweig wrote: > In fact, I just had a speech failure last weekend on my Black Knight > pinball. It turned out to be a 1458 op-amp. At least there are no > analog switches to fool with. I haven't figured out how to test those > things appropriately other than to "swap and see" if it works. Easiest way is with a scope. Trace the signal path, see where it goes sour. When I had an analog switch go on me, it showed up as a greatly reduced frequency response -- theere were multiple concentric signals. Next question is where to get a cheap scope . . . -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 29 13:56:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:55:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:55:56 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: AD561's available Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I dug around at my favorite surplus place at lunch today, and dug up three tubes of AD561 10 bit DACs. Someone was looking for some on RGVAC, so I thought i'd let folks here know I have some (about 80, actually..) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 29 14:06:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:06:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3457B4E5.6239@an.hp.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:12:53 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: My crazy 19VLTP22 Amplifone tube experiment Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com A few weeks ago, I mentioned that I ordered a 19VLTP22 tube as a replacement for the Amplifone tube. It arrived a little while ago, and last weekend, I had a few moments to experiment with it. I transplanted the yoke and magnetic rings from the old Amplifone tube onto this new tube. Just for grins, and not knowing much better, I figured that I'd try to align the yoke and rings just as they had been on the previous tube. (I can hear the laughter..) I know that I was dreaming, but I figured that maybe, just maybe, it might be close. Once everything had been grafted, I turned the beast on, and of course it did not work. :-0 !!! The over voltage LED lit, and gave me a good scare. I thought I blew up my Amplifone boards because I saw a puff of smoke come off the deflection board! "Umm.. what just happened here??" So, I decided to see if I blew up these pieces or not, and I grafted the parts back to the original tube, hooked everything up, and it worked fine. So, I didn't destroy anything in the process. Then I noticed what I had done wrong previously! When grafting the DAG wire from the old tube to the new tube, I lost some of the length of the spring, and the wire had a shorter reach. When I put the monitor in the game, I couldn't make the DAG wire mate with the harness, so I got clever and decided that I'd use a jumper wire to jumper them together. Well, in my haste, I neglected to see that even though the DAG wire is 1 wire, that it actually connects to 2 wires on the other side, and they get jumpered together on the tube side of things. I missed this detail, and only jumpered the DAG to one of the wires, leaving the other one unconnected. Aha! With the old tube in place, I unplugged the DAG wire to see if I could create the same atmosphere. Everything flipped out as before. Hypothesis confirmed. Dought! So, I swapped the components one last time to the new tube, made sure to connect the DAG wire correctly this time, and everything worked nicely. I spent a few moments fooling with the purity and convergence, and managed a picture that was reasonable. It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but it looks pretty good. The resolution of the tube was not as good as the original Rauland tube. I don't know why these tubes cross the to exact same part if they aren't really identical. Anyway, it was a sucessful experiment. So, if any of you have 19VLTP22's hanging around, you can just plug them right into the Amplifone setup, or swap neck keys and put them into Wells Gardners. I want to see if the 19VJTP22 works any better, but I haven't gotten around to trying that yet. My G07 has that tube, and I have an extra one laying around .. so it would be neat to try. Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 29 14:30:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:29:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: "Rhea, Cristopher J." (Cris Rhea) Message-Id: <199710292217.QAA22103@sijer.Mayo.EDU> Subject: Re: AD561's available To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 16:17:19 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: from "Al Kossow" at Oct 29, 97 01:55:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > I dug around at my favorite surplus place at lunch today, and dug up > three tubes of AD561 10 bit DACs. Someone was looking for some on > RGVAC, so I thought i'd let folks here know I have some (about 80, > actually..) How much do you want for 'em?? --- Cris ----------------------------------------------------------- Cristopher J. Rhea Mayo Foundation Research Computing Facility Guggenheim 1001B crhea@Mayo.EDU Rochester, MN 55905 Fax: (507) 266-4486 (507) 284-0587 ----------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 29 14:34:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:34:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:34:47 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: AD561's available Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com $7.50 ea. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed Oct 29 14:47:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:47:44 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 15:46:51 -0700 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: AD561's available Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com How much are you asking, I would like to have a few spare on hand. (I recently sold an asteroids in broken condition because of a bad DAC) -jeff >I dug around at my favorite surplus place at lunch today, and dug up >three tubes of AD561 10 bit DACs. Someone was looking for some on >RGVAC, so I thought i'd let folks here know I have some (about 80, >actually..) jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 30 12:02:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:01:59 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:00:51 -0600 (CST) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: AD561's available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Al Kossow wrote: > > I dug around at my favorite surplus place at lunch today, and dug up > three tubes of AD561 10 bit DACs. Someone was looking for some on > RGVAC, so I thought i'd let folks here know I have some (about 80, > actually..) > Pardon my ignorance, but what is the AD561 used in? Is it a sub for the AM6012 DACs? Thanks, Joe From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu Oct 30 12:26:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:26:18 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 12:26:15 -0800 (PST) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: AD561's available Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com "Pardon my ignorance, but what is the AD561 used in? Is it a sub for the AM6012 DACs?" It is a 10 bit DAC, used in Sega vector games and some Atari games (notably, Asteroids) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 31 07:43:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 07:43:02 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3459FE18.6C5E@an.hp.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:49:44 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Amplifone manual for sale References: <342857ca0.5163@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> <199709232335.TAA12575@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9709240907.ZM23850@calcite> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I have an extra Amplifone monitor manual for sale for $23 shipped. It's in fine shape, but the cover is a little discolored from age I guess. It's the first printing. I just bought this manual last week, for exactly this price, and as luck would have it, the Star Wars machine that I just bought came with one too. If you are interested in it, let me know. Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 31 08:39:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:39:50 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01BCE5F1.8CC08EC0@chris.loggans@MCI.com> From: Chris Loggans To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: Amplifone manual for sale Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:38:44 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4008 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Is this the Atari 19" & 25" Color X-Y Display manual? (I forget the part munber right now.) Thanks, -Chris On Friday, October 31, 1997 10:50 AM, Joel Rosenzweig wrote: > I have an extra Amplifone monitor manual for sale for $23 shipped. It's > in fine shape, but the cover is a little discolored from age I guess. > It's the first printing. > > I just bought this manual last week, for exactly this price, and as luck > would have it, the Star Wars machine that I just bought came with one > too. > > If you are interested in it, let me know. > > Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 31 10:59:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:58:55 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <345A2BFE.7567@an.hp.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 14:05:34 -0500 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Amplifone manual for sale References: <01BCE5F1.8CC08EC0@chris.loggans@MCI.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Yes, this is the Atari 19" & 25" Color X-Y Display manual. Joel- Chris Loggans wrote: > > Is this the Atari 19" & 25" Color X-Y Display manual? (I forget the part munber right now.) > > Thanks, > -Chris > > On Friday, October 31, 1997 10:50 AM, Joel Rosenzweig wrote: > > I have an extra Amplifone monitor manual for sale for $23 shipped. It's > > in fine shape, but the cover is a little discolored from age I guess. > > It's the first printing. > > > > I just bought this manual last week, for exactly this price, and as luck > > would have it, the Star Wars machine that I just bought came with one > > too. > > > > If you are interested in it, let me know. > > > > Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri Oct 31 15:39:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 15:39:11 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <345A6AAB.251E@pobox.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 18:32:59 -0500 From: Corey Stup X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: WG 19V2000 BW Vector monitor manual needed References: <342857ca0.5163@bolt.usg.provo.novell.com> <199709232335.TAA12575@po_box.cig.mot.com> <9709240907.ZM23850@calcite> <3459FE18.6C5E@an.hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com This is from a Asteroids Dlx upright - need copies or an original. Email if you have one available. Thanks!