From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun May 3 11:03:50 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 3 May 1998 11:03:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 13:02:02 -0500 (CDT) From: sickgear@ix.netcom.com To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-Id: <19985310595141@ix.netcom.com> Subject: some Tempest/Asteroids Deluxe PCBs 4 u. X-Mailer: NETCOMplete v3.20, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: sickgear@ix.netcom.com Hi All, I got a bunch o' boards from an op, but I don't need any of them... thought I'd give the lovely and talented vectorlist bunch first shot at them :-) 5 tempest main boards... 3 appear complete, one is missing Rom 3 and the big IC by the ROMs, another is missing ROM 3. 2 tempest aux boards... one complete, one missing all of the 8136/8123s. One interconnect cable for main/aux tempest boards. Two Asteroids Deluxe boards... one is complete, the other is missing some ROMs and the processor, and the DIP switch is destroyed. I haven't tested them, but I assume that at least some of them (if not all) aren't working... one of the Tempest boards is tagged "no video". They are all pretty dirty, they've been sitting in a warehouse for years. If you need some/all of 'em, make me an offer. Incidentally, I am looking for a Cinematronics deflection board for Star Castle (or someone who'd like to fix mine), an Atari Star Wars wiring harness/power supply/marquee, and someone who'll burn me a rom or two. Thanks, Derek sickgear@ix.netcom.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun May 3 21:55:50 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 3 May 1998 21:55:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 22:59:01 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: some Tempest/Asteroids Deluxe PCBs 4 u. Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) I'm interested in your complete asteroids deluxe board. I'm not sure what to offer, but I can burn ROMs for you. >Hi All, > >I got a bunch o' boards from an op, but I don't need any of them... >thought I'd give the lovely >and talented vectorlist bunch first shot at them :-) > >5 tempest main boards... 3 appear complete, one is missing Rom 3 and the >big IC by the ROMs, >another is missing ROM 3. > >2 tempest aux boards... one complete, one missing all of the 8136/8123s. > >One interconnect cable for main/aux tempest boards. > >Two Asteroids Deluxe boards... one is complete, the other is missing some >ROMs and the >processor, and the DIP switch is destroyed. > >I haven't tested them, but I assume that at least some of them (if not >all) aren't working... >one of the Tempest boards is tagged "no video". They are all pretty >dirty, they've been sitting >in a warehouse for years. > >If you need some/all of 'em, make me an offer. Incidentally, I am looking >for a Cinematronics >deflection board for Star Castle (or someone who'd like to fix mine), an >Atari Star Wars wiring >harness/power supply/marquee, and someone who'll burn me a rom or two. > >Thanks, > >Derek >sickgear@ix.netcom.com jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 4 13:19:22 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 4 May 1998 13:17:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 15:15:58 -0500 (CDT) From: sickgear@ix.netcom.com To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-Id: <1998541313426334@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Tempest/Asteroids deluxe stuff> GONE! X-Mailer: NETCOMplete v3.20, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: sickgear@ix.netcom.com Hi All, Thanks for all the replies! There's a lot for me to try to answer directly, but I just wanted to let you all know that the tempest/asteroids deluxe boards are sold. Thanks, Derek sickgear@Ix.netcom.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 11 13:17:09 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 11 May 1998 13:17:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980511131307.007dc8c0@u1.netgate.net> X-Sender: grigsby@u1.netgate.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 13:13:07 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: The Grigsbeast Subject: Re: Prototype games In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: The Grigsbeast >They are both jamma boards, and they have a copy right date on the PCB of >1992. One is called "arcade classics" and it has 2 games on it. One is >missle command and the other centipede. They are complete rewrites and they >use a 68000 processor. This board needs 2 trackballs. I wasn't that impressed (I worked at Atari when they made it). They do play very faithfully, though. >The other board contains a game called "sparkz" This was actually a moderately fun (though cheesy) Tetris-type game. Blocks containing pipes in various configurations fell from the sky and stacked where they hit. If you connected both sides of the screen the pipe disappeared. Shouldn't be hard to get going, at least. // grigs From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 11 13:27:39 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 11 May 1998 13:27:26 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 13:25:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805112025.NAA16410@neptune.geoworks.com> From: Andrew Wilson To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: vectorlist@spies.com, jeffh@diac.com In-reply-to: (jeffh@diac.com) Subject: Re: Prototype games Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Andrew Wilson >One is called "arcade classics" and it has 2 games on it. One is >missle command and the other centipede. They are complete rewrites and they >use a 68000 processor. This board needs 2 trackballs. Sounds alot like the other "arcade classics" PCBs I've seen (they were auctioning one on eBay last week, and it went for like $150, as I recall). I've played some of these games at the Seattle Gameworks (two machines with DigDug, RallyX, PacMan, and Arkanoid), and they were not much improvement from the originals aside from the simultaneous 2-player mode. I'd probably buy one just for the fun of 2-player PacMan, tho... I also have to wonder if they ever field-tested these things - I was able to play for like 20 minutes per credit on RallyX and PacMan, which makes for pretty low income for operators ;) Drew From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 11 16:26:46 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 11 May 1998 16:26:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Display Corrector... Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:24:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Long time no talk. I'm new to the vectorlist and your post has > peaked my curiousity... I have a few questions about it - if you have > a few minutes could you clear up a few of them for me?? > I was going to just reply to Tom directly, but I figured there might be other people new to the list... > Are you saying here that you'll be able to hook up a WG XY monitor to > other games such as Sega XY games? (In place of that electrohome > monitor?) How about the b/w cinematronics games - like space war? ;^) > The Display Corrector takes the X and Y deflections signals from a vector game (presumably Major Havoc or Star Wars, but it should work on anything) and applies a mathematical "correction factor" to the X output to help correct the "pincushion" effect seen when running Star Wars (or MH) on a Wells Gardner monitor. The same effect is present in Sega Vector games when running on WG monitors. There's a couple other people working on Cinematronics->WG display adapters. I haven't tried yet, but might give it a go if someone else doesn't come up with a pre-packaged solution. ;-) The display corrector seems to make a big difference when running Star Wars on a Wells Gardner monitor. It's subtle, but makes the display as a whole much more "pleasing". It's tough to describe. I think TravisH and ChrisH have seen it running on my machine-- maybe they can describe it better... I did a little web-page about it a long while back: http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/display.html > Will you be notifing the maillist when these are finished? > Yep, I'll fire off a little blurb about it. -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 11 17:12:11 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 11 May 1998 17:11:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <19980512001054.23525.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.211.189.34] From: "Tom Cloud" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: Display Corrector... Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:10:52 PDT Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Tom Cloud" Hi Clay...me again...the vector pest! Cool. Thanks for the info. I'll be looking for one when you're done. So, is it true that there is a way to hook Sega vector games up to a wells monitor? Is it written up somewhere? I'm asking as I'm about to become the owner of a Star Trek conversion and I'm sure somewhere along the way, the electrohome monitor is going to die - it seems unavoidable from all I've read about these monitors so I'm just trying to gather information that will assist me in making sure this game lives on beyond it's monitor. (Man! is that a run on sentance or what??) Anyway, any info on performing this switch would be appreciated. Thanks! TTYL Tom Cloud >From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 11 16:30:12 1998 >Received: by goonsquad.spies.com > via sendmail with stdio > id > for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 11 May 1998 16:26:09 -0700 (PDT) > (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) >Message-ID: >From: Clay Cowgill >To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" >Subject: RE: Display Corrector... >Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:24:10 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) >Content-Type: text/plain >Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com >CC: Clay Cowgill > >> Long time no talk. I'm new to the vectorlist and your post has >> peaked my curiousity... I have a few questions about it - if you have >> a few minutes could you clear up a few of them for me?? >> >I was going to just reply to Tom directly, but I figured there might be >other people new to the list... > >> Are you saying here that you'll be able to hook up a WG XY monitor to >> other games such as Sega XY games? (In place of that electrohome >> monitor?) How about the b/w cinematronics games - like space war? ;^) >> >The Display Corrector takes the X and Y deflections signals from a >vector game (presumably Major Havoc or Star Wars, but it should work on >anything) and applies a mathematical "correction factor" to the X output >to help correct the "pincushion" effect seen when running Star Wars (or >MH) on a Wells Gardner monitor. The same effect is present in Sega >Vector games when running on WG monitors. > >There's a couple other people working on Cinematronics->WG display >adapters. I haven't tried yet, but might give it a go if someone else >doesn't come up with a pre-packaged solution. ;-) > >The display corrector seems to make a big difference when running Star >Wars on a Wells Gardner monitor. It's subtle, but makes the display as >a whole much more "pleasing". It's tough to describe. I think TravisH >and ChrisH have seen it running on my machine-- maybe they can describe >it better... > >I did a little web-page about it a long while back: > >http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/display.html > >> Will you be notifing the maillist when these are finished? >> >Yep, I'll fire off a little blurb about it. > >-Clay > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 11 18:06:27 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 11 May 1998 18:05:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <35579FE4.BE1B2FF7@erols.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 21:03:32 -0400 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Prototype games References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kev Jeff Hendrix wrote: > I know this isn't vector related, but this group seems to be interested in > these kinds of things. > I just picked up 2 prototype boards from an ex-atari employee. > They are both jamma boards, and they have a copy right date on the PCB of > 1992. One is called "arcade classics" and it has 2 games on it. One is > missle command and the other centipede. They are complete rewrites and they > use a 68000 processor. This board needs 2 trackballs. > The other board contains a game called "sparkz" and its and it's a cross > between tetris and pipes (or something like that). It also uses a 68000. > The programs on these boards are at a finished state, but before the > security chip was incorporated. I haven't had a chance to plug these things > in yet (I need to build a jamma harness) so I don't know how good, or bad, > these games are. They guy I bought them from said that missle command was > so-so but the centipede was hot. It even had a mode so 2 people could play > at the same time. WOW! Now could we venture a guess that these boards are close in design to production games of the same era? What I'm getting at, I wonder if I could take my Guardians of the Hood, Moto Frenzy, Relief Pitcher, Road Riot (all 92 copyrights) board & plug these chips in? -- Kev Mowerman@erols.com >>REMOVE THE ? to REPLY Looking for Pac-Man related hacks & Video Game Coin Op Page -> http://www.erols.com/mowerman From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 11 19:55:30 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 11 May 1998 19:54:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980511195100.007e63e0@u1.netgate.net> X-Sender: grigsby@u1.netgate.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 19:51:00 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: The Grigsbeast Subject: Re: Prototype games In-Reply-To: <35579FE4.BE1B2FF7@erols.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: The Grigsbeast >WOW! Now could we venture a guess that these boards are close in design to >production games of the same era? > >What I'm getting at, I wonder if I could take my Guardians of the Hood, Moto >Frenzy, Relief Pitcher, Road Riot (all 92 copyrights) board & plug these chips >in? No. Actually, Relief Pitcher has a very small chance of being related, but the others are totally different HW. // grigs From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 12 14:13:10 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 12 May 1998 14:12:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F7D91C@wcgmrke101.wilcom.com> From: "Keith, Brendan" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: WG6102 schematic Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:11:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Keith, Brendan" Where can I find the above schematic. I have one for the 6100 or 6101 that uses the P317, P318 and P319 boards but the 6102 uses P327, P328 and P329. Specifically, I think that the HV board (P329) is dead. Is the LED near the 555 supposed to light when it is operational. I have put my scope on the output of the 555 and there's no waveform. I just don't want to have my hand in there when it comes to life. Also, lack of HV is no reason for the spot killer LED to be on, right? Looks like I may have multiple problems with this monitor. Thanks in advance, Brendan Keith brendan.keith@wilcom.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 12 15:08:33 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 12 May 1998 15:08:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 17:07:16 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Re: WG6102 schematic In-Reply-To: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F7D91C@wcgmrke101.wilcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: On Tue, 12 May 1998, Keith, Brendan wrote: > Where can I find the above schematic. I have one for the 6100 or 6101 > that uses the P317, P318 and P319 boards but the 6102 uses > P327, P328 and P329. Specifically, I think that the HV board (P329) > is dead. Is the LED near the 555 supposed to light when it is > operational. > I have put my scope on the output of the 555 and there's no waveform. > I just don't want to have my hand in there when it comes to life. > Also, lack of HV is no reason for the spot killer LED to be on, right? > Looks like I may have multiple problems with this monitor. > The schematic should be roughly the same. Gregg Woodcock's well-known XY FAQ explains the differences between the different monitor boards. No, the LED on the HV board is not a good thing. It means that the HV overvolt protection is kicking on. I don't know how this works off the top of my head, but clamping the output of the 555 would accomplish its goal of shutting down the HV section. This MAY be the cause of your spot killer problem, becuase the HV board generates the video B+ for the deflection amps. Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 12 17:06:18 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 12 May 1998 17:05:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199805130008.SAA03009@ppsol.com> From: "Chris Cope" Organization: Pinpoint Solutions To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:05:14 -0700 Subject: The state of RGVAC In-reply-to: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F7D91C@wcgmrke101.wilcom.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Chris Cope" I think all of you have seen the state of affairs over in RGVAC. It is now 30% FS posts, 30% Gibbz and DeBerry telling people to post on RGVAM, 30% people bitching at those two, and 10% tech info. I don't participate in this group much, but still read the submissions that are of interest to vector games that I own. My expertise is in the raster area of this hobby. What I would like to see is a raster list created similar to this, because this seems so well run and has very little or none of the crap that is going on in RGVAC right now. I have not talked to my boss about the possibilities of putting a majordomo server on our machines and have no idea what it entales. I was just interested in hearing what you guys think about the idea. Thanks. Chris ------------------ Chris Cope 303-444-7257 x109 Pinpoint Solutions mailto:chrisc@ppsol.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 12 18:13:15 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 12 May 1998 18:12:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980512211101.007d7a20@se.mediaone.net> X-Sender: dpage@se.mediaone.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 21:11:01 -0400 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: dp Subject: Re: The state of RGVAC In-Reply-To: <199805130008.SAA03009@ppsol.com> References: <01603F7CF8C7D111B9B80000F80463F7D91C@wcgmrke101.wilcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: dp sounds great, as long as it was moderated and allowed f.s. posts Dave At 06:05 PM 5/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >I think all of you have seen the state of affairs over in RGVAC. It >is now 30% FS posts, 30% Gibbz and DeBerry telling people to post on >RGVAM, 30% people bitching at those two, and 10% tech info. > >I don't participate in this group much, but still read the >submissions that are of interest to vector games that I own. My >expertise is in the raster area of this hobby. What I would like to >see is a raster list created similar to this, because this seems so >well run and has very little or none of the crap that is going on in >RGVAC right now. > >I have not talked to my boss about the possibilities of putting a >majordomo server on our machines and have no idea what it entales. I >was just interested in hearing what you guys think about the idea. > >Thanks. > >Chris > > >------------------ >Chris Cope 303-444-7257 x109 >Pinpoint Solutions >mailto:chrisc@ppsol.com > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 12 21:16:23 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 12 May 1998 21:15:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3559116F.475A@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 20:20:15 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: The state of RGVAC References: <199805130008.SAA03009@ppsol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Chris Cope wrote: > > I think all of you have seen the state of affairs over in RGVAC. It > is now 30% FS posts, 30% Gibbz and DeBerry telling people to post on > RGVAM, 30% people bitching at those two, and 10% tech info. > ... Hi! I too am getting a little tired of trying to sift through the gunk to reah the few legitimate enquiries. SO for now, I only drop in every week or so...instead of daily as I used to. John :-#(# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 13 05:58:37 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 05:58:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <355998A4.24C8C33E@vnet.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:57:08 -0400 From: "John W. Linville" Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; U; AIX 4.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: The state of RGVAC References: <199805130008.SAA03009@ppsol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "John W. Linville" Chris Cope wrote: > I have not talked to my boss about the possibilities of putting a > majordomo server on our machines and have no idea what it entales. I > was just interested in hearing what you guys think about the idea. I think it's a great idea! -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John W. Linville To Be, Rather Than To Seem. | | linvjw@vnet.ibm.com I will not torment the emotionally frail... :-) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 13 06:57:24 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 06:57:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980513085803.00945100@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: mmatelsk@bl-mail1.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:58:05 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) Subject: Re: The state of RGVAC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mit_Matelske@BayNetworks.COM (Mit Matelske) >submissions that are of interest to vector games that I own. My >expertise is in the raster area of this hobby. What I would like to >see is a raster list created similar to this, because this seems so >well run and has very little or none of the crap that is going on in >RGVAC right now. Chris- Try out http://www.syslog.com/arcade/. It's a mailing list that kinda caters to raster games. Most of the people that participate are pretty new to the hobby, but every once in a while there are some things of interest. Mit From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 13 09:02:35 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 09:02:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Display Corrector... Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:00:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > So, is it true that there is a way to hook Sega vector games up to > a wells monitor? Is it written up somewhere? [...] > this game lives on beyond it's monitor. (Man! is that a run on > sentance or what??) Anyway, any info on performing this switch would > be appreciated. > Yep, there's a way to do it. I think it was just a couple op-amps to perform some input matching to the monitor. I want to say that David Shoemaker did the original write-up? I think Al has it on the Spies archive. If not, I know I have a copy printed out somewhere. I did all my Sega Vector work with a WG monitor. Works fairly well-- the WG isn't *quite* fast enough to keep up with the Sega games all the time so you get an occasional "stray" vector. -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 13 14:22:28 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 14:21:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <5546B06BA6C5D11190070000F8B8447144821E@DFSPO02.dofasco.ca> From: RANGER Mike To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: quite quiet! Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 15:48:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: RANGER Mike hi all... Went to an old operators warehouse (he has to be out by the end of the summer) as he said he had a few vextor monitors laying around. Damn, no WG colour (was looking to spare up my gravitar monitor cheaply, and maybe get some goddies for you guys). He did have some 13 inch vectors and a B/W 19 incher. He let me rummage around for about an hour, and I found 3 tempest boards and a complete doc set, still in the bag. I tried to get the docs from him, but "they go with a board if you want it". Bottom line, with this guy, and don't get me wrong, he was a real nice guy, is that he wants way too much for his stuff, something in the neighbourhood of $150 fo a board. Maybe if I catch him closer to his move date... On a non vector note, he had to have over 20 pacman/MS pacman boards..but pricey. I walked away with a badly water damaged joust (complete, cab is trash, but boards and monitor look clean) for a good price. Mike P.S. When I get around to it, I'll be looking for some help in tweeking my gravitar up to perfect condidtion...still have some minor display problems... From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 13 15:17:32 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 15:17:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199805132220.QAA04726@ppsol.com> From: "Chris Cope" Organization: Pinpoint Solutions To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:16:44 -0700 Subject: Change of email and web page In-reply-to: <355998A4.24C8C33E@vnet.ibm.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Chris Cope" Just letting any of you that care that my email and web address are changing immediately. My account at Dimensional is being closed. My email is chrisc@ppsol.com. The web page, which contains the Pac-Man multigame hacks, is now http://www.ppsol.com/~chrisc. ------------------ Chris Cope 303-444-7257 x109 Pinpoint Solutions mailto:chrisc@ppsol.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 13 16:40:51 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 16:40:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: MC1495's Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:39:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill In the Murphy's !@#$!@# Law category... The only reliable source of Motorola MC1495's (used in the display corrector and Atari Vector Generator) seemed to be Newark Electronics (Farnell) for about $5 a pop in surface mount. That's not too bad compared to $10-14 ceramic DIP parts elsewhere, so I designed the display corrector PCB around the surface mount version. So, low and behold, I go snooping around the web today and what do I find... $1.50 MC1495's in Plastic DIP! @^#$%^@%$^@!!! Anyway, I bought a bunch, so I'll probably be changing the PCB to use DIP parts instead of SOIC. (Grumble, grumble...) If any of you need MC1495's though, www.marshall.com has 'em. June delivery though... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 13 16:44:26 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 16:44:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:44:21 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: MC1495's Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) "$1.50 MC1495's in Plastic DIP! @^#$%^@%$^@!!! Anyway, I bought a bunch, so I'll probably be changing the PCB to use DIP parts instead of SOIC. (Grumble, grumble...) " where were the price breaks? may be worth buying something like 100.. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 13 17:01:20 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 17:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: MC1495's Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:59:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Well, they only had 60 coming in and I bought 50 of those. I got 'em for $1.25 a pop? Maybe $1.21? Shipping added on of course. I'm a little confused by the whole situation. According to the Motorola Databooks the MC1495 was only produced in "MC1495D" (SOIC) and "MC1495L" (ceramic DIP). I asked if they were showing up as obsolete in the system or not and "Heidi" told me they weren't. On the other hand, if you go to the Motorola webpage the MC1495 is *gone* now. Looks like there's a MC1494 (which I'd never noticed before). Dunno if it's close or not. Only other manufacturer I've ever seen for the 1495 was SGS. Anyway, I'm expecting the display corrector proto-boards tomorrow. I'm trying to get some MC1495D's directly from Motorola to populate those. (I only have a few 1495D's right now.) I need to figure out if it's cheaper to buy the surface-mount parts from Newark and use the PCB's I get, or just do a new run of boards and eat the cost of these first proto's... I suppose I can always use 'em in my own games and for a few people on the list that wanted a PCB to play with. (Well, if nothing else, I'll definately wait to *see* these MC1495P's in my hands before I change anything. Might be a screw-up. The price looks way to low to be right. Maybe it's EOL and this is the life-time buy on the part....) -Clay > where were the price breaks? > may be worth buying something like 100.. > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 13 17:37:31 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 17:37:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199805140038.UAA16711@saturn.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: Prototype games To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 20:38:15 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980511195100.007e63e0@u1.netgate.net> from "The Grigsbeast" at May 11, 98 07:51:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Paul Kahler > >WOW! Now could we venture a guess that these boards are close in design to > >production games of the same era? > > No. > // grigs The MAME guys seem to do a good job from somewhat limited information. A memory map & rom images goes a long way with them. They've also got people who can figure out hardware (I can vouch for Frank, he lives right down the street & did the voice driver for Star Wars). Yes, this is a hint. -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 13 20:14:52 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 20:14:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 23:13:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Mitchell Rohde To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" cc: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: MC1495's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mitchell Rohde If you are making these newly designed display correctors, why use a part that is lookin' like it's on it's way out? What does the part do? Can we find a better choice? mitch From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 13 20:39:57 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 20:39:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 20:39:51 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: MC1495's Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) "If you are making these newly designed display correctors, why use a part that is lookin' like it's on it's way out?" know of another 4 quadrant multiplier? I tried to find something about a year ago, and couldn't locate one. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 14 05:11:24 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 05:11:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 07:09:41 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Source for DAC312s? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Does anyone know a source for DAC312s? Are these still in production? (Of course, a source for AM6012s would be just as good...) Joe From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 14 06:26:25 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 06:26:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <5546B06BA6C5D11190070000F8B8447144823E@DFSPO02.dofasco.ca> From: RANGER Mike To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Source for DAC312s? Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:21:31 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: RANGER Mike My local shop claims to carry DAC312BR/883 1986 Don't know if thats the beast.... Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu [SMTP:jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu] > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 1998 8:10 AM > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu > Subject: Source for DAC312s? > > > Does anyone know a source for DAC312s? Are these still in > production? (Of course, a source for AM6012s would be just as good...) > > Joe From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 14 07:28:48 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 07:28:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199805141427.HAA11615@kingdom.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:28:10 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: MC1495's In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 04:39 PM 5/13/98 -0700, Clay wrote: >In the Murphy's !@#$!@# Law category... > >The only reliable source of Motorola MC1495's (used in the display >corrector and Atari Vector Generator) seemed to be Newark Electronics >(Farnell) for about $5 a pop in surface mount. > >That's not too bad compared to $10-14 ceramic DIP parts elsewhere, so I >designed the display corrector PCB around the surface mount version. > >So, low and behold, I go snooping around the web today and what do I >find... > >$1.50 MC1495's in Plastic DIP! @^#$%^@%$^@!!! Anyway, I bought a >bunch, so I'll probably be changing the PCB to use DIP parts instead of >SOIC. (Grumble, grumble...) Clay, you should still leave the SMT footprint and just include the DIP footprint. That way you could put either a DIP part or a SMT part where the 1495's go. Yes? -Anders. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 14 09:07:31 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 09:07:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: MC1495's Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:05:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill I'm not concerned about the parts essentially going away-- I can do a lifetime buy and support the product more or less indefinately. I figure there's a world-wide market of at most about 200 of the things. (I'll probably only sell about ~30 or so initially based on the response I've seen so far.) Even if I only get 100 parts they'll last a long time... ;-) As for an alternative-- Harris makes some analog 4-quadrant multipliers. They have one of those weird-ass Harris part numbers that I can never remember though. Problem is, they're priced like the Motorola parts used to be-- $15-20 a pop. Consensus seemed to be that people would want a display corrector if it was under $30. Better if under $25. I can get there with the cheap Motorola parts, expensive Motorola parts (or Harris) and I'd have to sell it for over $50 to break-even. I don't think many people would bite... The design has about 50 parts on it, so it take a pretty good sized chunk of PCB, and since I won't be making many the PCB is relatively expensive-- thus I need cheap parts to get to the price-point. As for what it does... What the multipliers are doing is basically squaring the y-input and multiplying against a constant to scale the result. That value is then multiplied against the x-input (which can be positive or negative) which results in a sort of inverse linear function-- values close to "center" on the Y axis make the X-axis stretch out, values closer to the limits of the Y axis result in the X axis having very little expansion. Since the "pincushion" effect on the CRT is sorta parabolic and the correction factor is roughly linear the correction isn't perfect. However, the majority of the distortion is in the center (larger correction) so it ends up working rather nicely. I added a potentiometer to "adjust" the amount of correction-- just turn on the cross-hatch grid and turn the knob to where the side look to be more straight than bowed. I started playing around with the Cinematronics method of display-correction in Electronics Workbench, but haven't got much tested with it. (It might be cheaper if it lends itself to use with the Atari method of vector generation...) -Clay > ---------- > From: Mitchell Rohde[SMTP:bovine@eecs.umich.edu] > Reply To: vectorlist@spies.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 1998 8:13 PM > To: 'vectorlist@spies.com' > Cc: Clay Cowgill; Mitchell Rohde > Subject: RE: MC1495's > > > If you are making these newly designed display correctors, why use > a part that is lookin' like it's on it's way out? > > What does the part do? Can we find a better choice? > > mitch > > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 14 09:12:33 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 09:12:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:12:27 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: MC1495's Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Consensus seemed to be that people would want a display corrector if it was under $30. Better if under $25. If someone ever builds a new deflection board for the G80, they'll need something similar. I'm guessing thats what the custom IC does on the inputs of the original G80 design. I started playing around with the Cinematronics method of display-correction in Electronics Workbench, but haven't got much tested with it. Did Zonn ever trace out the circuit in Boxing Bugs? From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 14 09:17:25 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 09:17:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: MC1495's Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:15:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Clay, you should still leave the SMT footprint and just include the > DIP > footprint. That way you could put either a DIP part or a SMT part > where the > 1495's go. Yes? > Yes. They should more-or-less peacefully co-exist. Had I been thinking, I would have put both on the protoboards, but I was lazy and wanted to get the things ordered so I couldn't procrastinate on it anymore. (I hate having unfinished projects, and I've got a couple dozen of 'em now... ;-) Oh, well, paying the price now. ;-) -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 14 09:37:07 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 09:36:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: MC1495's Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:35:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > If someone ever builds a new deflection board for the G80, they'll > need > something similar. I'm guessing thats what the custom IC does on the > inputs > of the original G80 design. > On a kinda-sorta related note... I still say it'd be really cool to try to find a modern "flat" CRT (like a 25-27" Toshiba, Matsushita, Panasonic/Phillips, etc.) with nice black-phosphor coating and try to drive it from an old vector yoke (or make a new one). The flat screen might "fix" the geometric distortion like the Amplifone tube does, but with the short neck distance on the new tubes adequate deflection might be a problem. > I started playing around with the Cinematronics method of > display-correction in Electronics Workbench, but haven't got much > tested > with it. > > Did Zonn ever trace out the circuit in Boxing Bugs? > Not that I heard of. I might take a look at it again just for grins. I was looking for something use one of those Atmel AVR microcontrollers on and I was thinking of a low-rez flash converter and an AVR with a look-up table to do correction, but that's probably a bit "brute-force"-ish... -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 14 10:54:07 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 10:53:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Source for DAC312s? Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:52:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill I bought a bunch of surface-mount AM6012's a while back and then had surface-mount to DIP adapters made. I still have some left if you need some. $7.50 each if I recall... Also, anyone know of a source for 68B09E's? (Like used in Star Wars) -Clay > ---------- > From: > jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu[SMTP:jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu] > Reply To: vectorlist@spies.com > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 1998 5:09 AM > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu > Subject: Source for DAC312s? > > > Does anyone know a source for DAC312s? Are these still in > production? (Of course, a source for AM6012s would be just as > good...) > > Joe > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 14 11:05:53 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 11:05:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: MC1495's Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 18:05:25 GMT Message-ID: <355b2e1c.1379000153@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Thu, 14 May 1998 09:35:25 -0700, Clay Cowgill = wrote: > >> If someone ever builds a new deflection board for the G80, they'll >> need >> something similar. I'm guessing thats what the custom IC does on the >> inputs >> of the original G80 design. >>=20 >On a kinda-sorta related note... I still say it'd be really cool to try >to find a modern "flat" CRT (like a 25-27" Toshiba, Matsushita, >Panasonic/Phillips, etc.) with nice black-phosphor coating and try to >drive it from an old vector yoke (or make a new one). The flat screen >might "fix" the geometric distortion like the Amplifone tube does, but >with the short neck distance on the new tubes adequate deflection might >be a problem.=20 I think the short neck exaggerates the problem which is why the Amplifone= tubes had longer next than the WG tubes. I think short necks were always = desirable (makes for smaller TVs) but only came about with the advent of better compensating electronics. But this is only a guess. > >> I started playing around with the Cinematronics method of >> display-correction in Electronics Workbench, but haven't got much >> tested >> with it. >>=20 >> Did Zonn ever trace out the circuit in Boxing Bugs? I started it, then got torn away by an old "side" job that I thought was = done. I've learned that old jobs are never done, just put on hold for years at = a time. But I'm learning to say no! I just said no to another job someone wanted= to hire me for! I feel real good about this. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. Just say no. The Cinematronics design does use the 1495 parts, it still uses the = diodes in the feedback of the OP amps to correct for blooming around the edges, but= has an extra non-linear correction stage that's more adjustable than the VDR = circuit of Atari -- and does it without the VDRs. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 14 11:16:37 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 11:16:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:16:11 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: Source for DAC312s? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) "Also, anyone know of a source for 68B09E's? (Like used in Star Wars) " JDR Microdevices may still have some. I'll try to get over to their store and check. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 14 11:17:48 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 11:17:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sent: 14 May 1998 18:16:31 GMT Message-ID: <355B3550.68967D3F@netconx.net> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:17:52 -0500 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: 68B09E's References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Todd Miller I did a quick search the other day, JDR has them for 8.99 each ! I need quit a few, so I'll hold off util I can find'm for less. > Also, anyone know of a source for 68B09E's? (Like used in Star Wars) > > -Clay > -- Thanks Todd http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 14 17:11:53 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 17:11:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 19:10:01 -0500 (CDT) From: sickgear@ix.netcom.com To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-Id: <199851417558541@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Space Wars question, and an Atari question... X-Mailer: NETCOMplete v3.20, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: sickgear@ix.netcom.com Hi all, This may be a dumb question, but can I test other cinematronics boards (star castle, ripoff, etc) in a Space Wars cab? I didn't see the pinout for Space Wars on spies, so I thought I'd check with the experts b4 I tried it. Another question: I've got a Battlezone that generally works fine, but sometimes it locks up. When it does so, the start button goes solid red, and the spot killer comes on. Any thoughts as to what's going on/where I should start checking? Also, I've got a spare Omega Race flyer if anyone needs it. Also also... is the Cinematronics page being maintained anymore? Just thought I'd break up some of the highbrow techno-talk that I don't understand w/slightly inane writings. The scheduled over-my-headness may now continue! ;) Thanks, Derek sickgear@ix.netcom.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 14 17:21:51 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 17:21:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Paul Kahler Message-Id: <199805150020.UAA10812@vela.acs.oakland.edu> Subject: Re: MC1495's To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 20:20:44 -0500 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Clay Cowgill" at May 14, 98 09:05:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Paul Kahler CLay Wrote: > As for what it does... > > What the multipliers are doing is basically squaring the y-input and > multiplying against a constant to scale the result. That value is then > multiplied against the x-input (which can be positive or negative) which > results in a sort of inverse linear function-- values close to "center" > on the Y axis make the X-axis stretch out, values closer to the limits > of the Y axis result in the X axis having very little expansion. So technically you don't need any 4 quadrant multipliers. You need a squaring circuit (do they make such things?) and a 2 quadrant multiplier since Y squared is never negative. -- ___ __ _ _ _ | \ / \ | | | || | phkahler@oakland.edu Engineer/Programmer | _/| || || |_| || |__ " What makes someone care so much? |_| |_||_| \___/ |____) for things another man can just ignore. " -S.H. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 14 17:26:30 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 17:26:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 17:26:25 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: MC1495's Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) "So technically you don't need any 4 quadrant multipliers. You need a squaring circuit (do they make such things?) and a 2 quadrant multiplier since Y squared is never negative." the correction factor from the opposite channel is squared, that result is fed to another multiplier which is bipolar (2 multipliers / channel) From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 14 17:39:43 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 17:39:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Storing / Compressing schematic scans (slightly off topic) Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 00:39:15 GMT Message-ID: <355b8900.1402271127@tommy.doctord.com> References: <355B3550.68967D3F@netconx.net> In-Reply-To: <355B3550.68967D3F@netconx.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) This might be of interest to those on this list who maintain archives of schematic scans. My current job required me to compress some small B&W images, so as spin = off of that project I wrote a compressor for archiving my scanned schematics. It's available at: www.zonn.com/Compression including the 'C' source. It only works with .BMP format files (they are by *far* the easiest to = read, and since they're is no bi-color compression already implemented in the .BMP = format, I don't have to worry about decompressing the image before re-compressing= it). It's lossless compression so the decompressed file is identical to the = original. I've also add mucho CRC32 checking so that downloads can be immediately = checked for errors. If you're currently using PKZIP on uncompressed files, this program will = cut your disk requirements by at least half, usually a bit more than that. If you've saved them in the older .TIF (like the Cinematronics CPU scans = on www.spies.com) this program will cut your storage to about 1/10 the size.= It's about half the size of some of the newer .TIF formats (but there are so = many TIF formats that I have no idea which ones to compare to). As an example, all the Cinematronics CPU scans (six pages) at 600dpi, and= both monitor (Vectorbeam / Cinematronics 4 more pages) scans at 600dpi, = together only take up ~700k of space compressed. Uncompressed they use ~38meg. I can now fit all the Cinematronics schematics on my measly homepage. It currently runs in DOS (or a DOS window), and I've made the source = available so that a possible conversion to a Mac could be done, if someone were = motivated to do so (I know nothing of Mac programming). -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 14 17:46:42 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 17:46:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Space Wars question, and an Atari question... Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 00:46:03 GMT Message-ID: <355c8f02.1403810070@tommy.doctord.com> References: <199851417558541@ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <199851417558541@ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Thu, 14 May 1998 19:10:01 -0500 (CDT), sickgear@ix.netcom.com wrote: >Hi all, > >This may be a dumb question, but can I test other cinematronics boards = (star castle, ripoff,=20 >etc) in a Space Wars cab? I didn't see the pinout for Space Wars on = spies, so I thought I'd=20 >check with the experts b4 I tried it. > >Another question: I've got a Battlezone that generally works fine, but = sometimes it locks >up. When it does so, the start button goes solid red, and the spot = killer comes on. Any=20 >thoughts as to what's going on/where I should start checking? > >Also, I've got a spare Omega Race flyer if anyone needs it. > >Also also... is the Cinematronics page being maintained anymore? =20 It was technically Bill's page though it's at my domain. But Bill = (having bought a house) has neither the time nor inclination to maintain it. The people over at www.gamearchive.com plan on adding a Cinematronics = page to their lineup.=20 When that happens I plan on removing all the flyer scans / marque shots = from the homepage and replacing them with Schematics and Cinematronics technical = notes. I'll rename it to the "Cinematronics Technical Reference Page" or = something... (This assumes your talking about the Cinematronics page at www.zonn.com/Cinematronics and not someone else's!) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 15 06:24:01 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 06:22:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199805151321.GAA23008@kingdom.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:22:17 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Storing / Compressing schematic scans (slightly off topic) In-Reply-To: <355b8900.1402271127@tommy.doctord.com> References: <355B3550.68967D3F@netconx.net> <355B3550.68967D3F@netconx.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 12:39 AM 5/15/98 +0000, Zonn wrote: >This might be of interest to those on this list who maintain archives of >schematic scans. >It only works with .BMP format files (they are by *far* the easiest to read, and >since they're is no bi-color compression already implemented in the .BMP format, >I don't have to worry about decompressing the image before re-compressing it). >It's lossless compression so the decompressed file is identical to the original. >I've also add mucho CRC32 checking so that downloads can be immediately checked >for errors. This sounds good if you are archiving scans for storage. However, if you are trying to make scans quickly available for viewing, then jpeg (lossy) or gif(lossless) is probably the best way to go. It is less convenient if the user has to run a separate decompression before viewing. Just out of curiosity, Zonn, have you taken an original image, and compared compressed file sizes between your code, jpeg, and gif? That would be interesting to see. (If you have an image to try, I have Adobe Photoshop, and can do the jpeg and gif compression for you.) ...just me 2 cents... -anders. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 15 09:17:31 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 09:16:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: MC1495's Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:14:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > So technically you don't need any 4 quadrant multipliers. You need a > squaring circuit (do they make such things?) and a 2 quadrant > multiplier > since Y squared is never negative. > You still need one 4-quadrant multiplier. The 1495's can multiply two inputs together and then multiply that by a constant. The first chip does A=(Y*Y)*Z where Y is the Y-deflection signal and Z is a small fraction that represents the amount of "correction" (set by a pot). The second chip does B=(A*X)*W where X is the X-deflection singnal (which varies from about -12V to +12V) and W is a width control (set by a pot). B is then used as the X-axis output to the monitor. -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 15 10:03:33 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 10:02:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805151701.KAA14416@neptune.geoworks.com> From: Andrew Wilson To: vectorlist@spies.com In-reply-to: <199805151321.GAA23008@kingdom.adaptec.com> (message from Anders Knudsen on Fri, 15 May 1998 07:22:17 -0600) Subject: Re: Storing / Compressing schematic scans (slightly off topic) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Andrew Wilson >This sounds good if you are archiving scans for storage. However, if you are >trying to make scans quickly available for viewing, then jpeg (lossy) or >gif(lossless) is probably the best way to go. JPEG is designed for compressing photographic images. It does a poor job on sharp edges, such as those found on monochrome schematics. It just kills me to see people use JPEGs on monochrome images, as it smears out all the edges. GIF is good (the compression is as good or better than JPEG on monochrome images, I believe), but as I recall it doesn't have a 1 bit-per-pixel format, so you are probably bloating up your files. But you are right, it's great for viewing. I think Zonn was mostly looking to decrease the space the scans were taking up on the server, though. As a test, I made a 830x603 pixel monochrome BMP file. The BMP file was 61K (as would be expected for an uncompressed image). The JPEG file (with minimum compression) was 20K. If you increased the compression, the JPEG file could get much smaller, but the lines started smearing around 13K. The GIF version of the file was about 5K. The BMZ (Zonn's compression) version was... 652 bytes! Zonn - that compression algorithm looked interesting, but I couldn't quite grok it from looking at the source code. Is the IEEE journal you got it from online anywhere? I'm too lazy to look for it myself, I guess ;) Drew From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 15 11:11:54 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 11:10:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Storing / Compressing schematic scans (slightly off topic) Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 18:10:23 GMT Message-ID: <355d7a07.1463984128@tommy.doctord.com> References: <355B3550.68967D3F@netconx.net> <355B3550.68967D3F@netconx.net> <199805151321.GAA23008@kingdom.adaptec.com> In-Reply-To: <199805151321.GAA23008@kingdom.adaptec.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Fri, 15 May 1998 07:22:17 -0600, Anders Knudsen wrote: >At 12:39 AM 5/15/98 +0000, Zonn wrote: >>This might be of interest to those on this list who maintain archives = of >>schematic scans. >>It only works with .BMP format files (they are by *far* the easiest to = read, >and >>since they're is no bi-color compression already implemented in the = .BMP >format, >>I don't have to worry about decompressing the image before = re-compressing >it). >>It's lossless compression so the decompressed file is identical to the >original. >>I've also add mucho CRC32 checking so that downloads can be immediately >checked >>for errors. > >This sounds good if you are archiving scans for storage. However, if you= are >trying to make scans quickly available for viewing, then jpeg (lossy) or >gif(lossless) is probably the best way to go. I agree that .GIF is not bad, but jpeg is a very bad choice for saving = schematic scans. If you visit comp.compression you'll find that even the creators = of the standard would recommend against this. JPEG was designed to save = photographic scans and does not work on line art. It works by throwing away the high frequencies of the picture (it softens the edges) this is a bad thing = when saving schematics. I've often downloaded JPEG scans only to find that = when I zoom in to see the value of a part there's nothing but un-decipherable = blob. And if you want to expand and edit it, then recompress it, you're losses = just keep getting worse. Also (at least Paint Shop Pro) must convert the B&W image to at least 256= colors before it can be saved as a JPEG. Thus JPEG must start with a file 8 = times greater than the original.=20 .GIF can handle B&W line art images just fine. .PNG is a newer standard designed to replace .GIF in the lossless world, = that does a better job and is not plagued by the unisys patents that = developers must pay to include .GIF in their software. .TIF has some nice compression modes, but good luck sending them to = someone who is not running the exact software (and version) that you are. There are = so many .TIF modes that no piece of software seems to be able to consistently = read another's. For instance I cannot read 80% of the .TIF scans on = www.spies.com directly. For many of them I can open them with ACDC, which reads them incorrectly. I can them copy the bad image to the clipboard. Then use = Paint Shop Pro to create a new image from the clipboard, somehow, magically the= image that exist "incorrectly" in the clipboard fixes itself when read into = Paint Shop Pro. There's probably an easier way, but this works and I only need to = do it once per image. >It is less convenient if the >user >has to run a separate decompression before viewing. Absolutely agree! Yet currently the most convenient way to save images = (for size) is to use PKZIP on a uncompressed .BMP or .PCX file. I've notice a= few pages using this technique. What I usually do is download a schematic scan. Use what ever program it= takes to finally decipher the image (no one program can do them all -- so far = that I've found). Print the image, then archive the image using a standard = format. I find it pretty hard to work from a schematic on the screen, so from = that point on I usually just pull out the hard copy. But the point is taken. I agree that if you want to point your browser = to a schematic scan, PKZIP or BMZ is NOT the way to go. I'm just looking for = a way to place *many* schematic scans on my home page. At which point I'll say download what you want, decompress it, and save it in a format you feel comfortable with, setting your own size/convenience trade off. >But=20 >Just out of curiosity, Zonn, have you taken an original image, and = compared >compressed file sizes between your code, jpeg, and gif? That would be >interesting to see. (If you have an image to try, I have Adobe = Photoshop, and >can do the jpeg and gif compression for you.) >...just me 2 cents... As far as compression ratios go, I wouldn't even have bothered with this = program if I could not have made a substantial difference in savings. I few = bytes here and there, don't justify "yet another compression program". Here's a test run on the first page of the Cinematronics CPU (600 D.P.I. = 6300 x 4800 pixels): Ext Size --- ---- .BMP =3D 3,782.462 (Full uncompressed size) .JPG =3D 1,706,384 (Using the default settings of Paint Shop Pro) .GIF =3D 329,306 .PNG =3D 223,470 .ZIP =3D 200,709 .BMZ =3D 78,359 As you can see the .BMZ format can get me a *lot* more space on my = homepage and might just be worth the irritation of using the decompressor (I'll see = how many emails I get requesting a different format when I start with the = schematics). Hopefully I've made it just a little more exceptable by supplying full = 'C' source code. If you want to play with this file I'll put it on the homepage in both = .BMZ and .ZIP format so you can see what Adobe can do. Link directly to: www.zonn.com/Compression/CPU1_6.ZIP Or to download it at more than twice the speed: ;^) www.zonn.com/Compression/CPU1_6.BMZ (Of course you need more time to decompress .BMZ than .ZIP so I don't = really see download time as a big advantage to .BMZ files) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 15 11:33:32 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 11:32:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 11:32:28 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: i can't win... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) zonn said" "For instance I cannot read 80% of the .TIF scans on = www.spies.com" I wish I knew what format was the most universal for high-compression CCITT G4 tiff data.. People bitched because the scans were too big, and took too long to download, so I compressed them using the highest compression B&W format that was a 'standard' and now people can't decode them... From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 15 11:58:21 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 11:57:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: djeffery@multipath.com (Doug Jefferys) Message-Id: <199805151858.OAA19402@mpws15> Subject: Re: i can't win... To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 14:58:14 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Al Kossow" at May 15, 98 11:32:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: djeffery@multipath.com (Doug Jefferys) Once upon a time, Al Kossow wrote: > > I wish I knew what format was the most universal for high-compression CCITT G4 > tiff data.. People bitched because the scans were too big, and took too long > to download, so I compressed them using the highest compression B&W format that > was a 'standard' and now people can't decode them... Well, TIFF is more like "Microsoft Word Document" - it's a multiplicity of mutually-incompatible standards :) .JPG, as I hope we all agree, is crazy for schematics, for the reasons already discussed. Back to the .GIF side - has anyone considered that 2- or 3-bit greyscale in a .GIF is probably *more* readable than straight monochrome due to the anti-aliasing that a greyscale image would provide? The only missing statistic from the the comparative study, IMHO, is .ZIP. If all you're after is lossless compression large image files, .ZIP may well provide results comparable to Zonn's format. One caveat - if Zonn's format contains optimizations for long vertical lines as well as long horizontal lines, it may well outperform .GIF and .ZIP when applied to schematic drawings. (This may only hold true for cases where the scan was performed with the schematic being very well lined-up with the scanner during the scanning process. For fun, take a .GIF of a schematic and rotate it by 2-3 degrees, and watch the size grow...) Later, Doug. -- Douglas W. Jefferys | Star Data Systems | Email: djeffery@multipath.com | From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 15 12:18:37 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 12:17:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: i can't win... Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:15:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Back to the .GIF side - has anyone considered that 2- or 3-bit > greyscale > in a .GIF is probably *more* readable than straight monochrome due to > the anti-aliasing that a greyscale image would provide? > The only problem with that is that greyscale GIFs don't print particularly well unless you have a good laser printer. I did a bunch of about 100dpi greyscale scans which made for a nice quality on screen and looked great printed on the beastly HP 5Si (600dpi plus RET) here at work, but they were horrid printed at 300DPI on my Panasonic at home. I think high-rez B/W is pretty good for "standard" since you can always use something like Photoshop and re-sample it down to more greyscales if you want, and if you don't want to you can still print 1:1 on a 600dpi printer and it looks really nice... > The only missing statistic from the the comparative study, IMHO, is > .ZIP. > If all you're after is lossless compression large image files, .ZIP > may > well provide results comparable to Zonn's format. > Yeah, I dunno on that one. LHA, ARJ, and the like might do better or worse I suppose... > One caveat - if Zonn's format contains optimizations for long vertical > lines as well as long horizontal lines, it may well outperform .GIF > and > .ZIP when applied to schematic drawings. > Someone should write a .BMZ plugin for Netscape and IExplorer. ;-) > (This may only hold true for cases where the scan was performed with > the > schematic being very well lined-up with the scanner during the > scanning > process. For fun, take a .GIF of a schematic and rotate it by 2-3 > degrees, and watch the size grow...) > Ahhhh, good point, but at sufficiently high resolution even an uneven scan will probably have vertical or horizontal lines that are made up of multiple-pixel widths. Of course this is kind-of amusing to me since I think the last IDE drive I got for my PC has like 64K sectors or something anyway. 652 bytes worth of schematic? 64K of file system... ;-) -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 15 12:47:21 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 12:46:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Display Corrector works! Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:44:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Hey all, I fired up one of the Display Corrector boards last night. It worked first try! (Batting about .500 when it comes to PCB's. ;-) Anyway, I put a picture of the board up at: http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/display.html I've got about 10 of this first run to sell off before I change designs. I think the next run I do I won't put the input op-amp circuitry down to save some $$$ on the boards, so if you want one that has input amps you might want to get one of these from me (for use on something other than Star Wars). I think I can get some MC1495D's at about $4 a pop to use on these boards, so I'm thinking of something like: $20 bare board with bill of materials, schematic, and parts placement drawing-- you supply the rest. (No warranty! You build it wrong and mess it up, it's not my fault!) $30 board with surface mount parts populated (MC1495's and op-amp) and docs. (No warranty! You build it wrong and mess it up, it's not my fault!) $35 fully assembled and tested. (Normal Clay Warranty--I'll help you to the best of my ability if you ever have problems with it.) Let me know if any of you want one of these. I'll re-iterate that these will probably bee the only "universal" ones I make. I think I'll just do 'em for Star Wars and Major Havoc from now on since it's easier/cheaper to do that way... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 15 13:02:24 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 13:00:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:58:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist@spies.com cc: Al Kossow Subject: Re: i can't win... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mitchell Rohde I think d/l time had to fall below the compatibility issue. Spending 15 mins to d/l an unreadable file is much more likely to piss me off than an hour for a good one... :) Just my $0.01, mitch On Fri, 15 May 1998, Al Kossow wrote: > > zonn said" > > "For instance I cannot read 80% of the .TIF scans on = > www.spies.com" > > I wish I knew what format was the most universal for high-compression CCITT G4 > tiff data.. People bitched because the scans were too big, and took too long > to download, so I compressed them using the highest compression B&W format that > was a 'standard' and now people can't decode them... > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 15 13:16:21 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 13:15:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <355C9549.5ADC@istar.ca> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:19:37 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: i can't win... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Al Kossow wrote: > > zonn said" > > "For instance I cannot read 80% of the .TIF scans on = > www.spies.com" > > I wish I knew what format was the most universal for high-compression CCITT G4 > tiff data.. People bitched because the scans were too big, and took too long > to download, so I compressed them using the highest compression B&W format that > was a 'standard' and now people can't decode them... Hows-about adding a link to someone that has appropriate software for the decompression side?? (just asking) John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 15 13:20:40 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 13:19:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:19:36 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: i can't win... Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) "Hows-about adding a link to someone that has appropriate software for the decompression side?? (just asking)" Graphic Converter for the Mac is what I used to create the files, so it works fine. If someone has a pointer to something in the DOS world, i'd be happy to add it From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 15 13:33:07 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 13:32:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: i can't win... Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 20:31:55 GMT Message-ID: <355ca43a.203808@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Fri, 15 May 1998 11:32:28 -0700 (PDT), aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) = wrote: > >zonn said" > >"For instance I cannot read 80% of the .TIF scans on =3D >www.spies.com" > >I wish I knew what format was the most universal for high-compression = CCITT G4 >tiff data.. People bitched because the scans were too big, and took too = long >to download, so I compressed them using the highest compression B&W = format that >was a 'standard' and now people can't decode them... Hey Al, This has come up before in vectorlist, I didn't mean for it to be a = criticism! It's just that programs that claim .TIF only support a subset (I don't = believe there is any program that supports all the .TIF modes). I decided to compress .BMP files for two reasons: 1) It's such a frickin easy file layout that it would be pretty hard = (bordering on incompetence) for a program that supports it to support it = incorrectly. 2) It doesn't have a B&W compression mode so I didn't have to decompress = it before I compress it. As far as your site is concerned, you have lot's of disk space so a nice standard would be nice. Unfortunately most standards will probably use = more space than the current .TIF files. .GIF's are pretty universal, but will probably use quite a bit of space. I don't know what the answer is but the 80% thing wasn't a dig!!! I = really appreciate the effort that goes into maintaining the site, and the = convenience of them being there! And I CAN read them, it just takes a lot if = fiddling between a couple of programs to do so. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 15 13:33:42 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 13:32:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <5546B06BA6C5D11190070000F8B8447144824B@DFSPO02.dofasco.ca> From: RANGER Mike To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: i can't win... Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:27:04 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: RANGER Mike Ok...My 2 cents... While running under win 3.1, my system could not handle the size of the spies schematics. I went to NT 4.0, and use MS photo editor. The file is still large, and hard to read on the screen , but the print quility is incredible. Great work Al! FYI on the screen, if it reduced to about 24%, it is readable, but it does not hold a light to the printed page, even on 8.5 by 11. Incedently I use an HP 4M laser printer. Mike From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 15 13:44:00 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 13:43:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:41:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist@spies.com cc: Al Kossow Subject: Re: i can't win... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mitchell Rohde > > Graphic Converter for the Mac is what I used to create the files, so it ^^^^ The problem is found..... heheheheh From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 15 14:27:24 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 14:26:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:25:06 -0500 (CDT) From: sickgear@ix.netcom.com To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-Id: <199851514219641@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: i can't win... X-Mailer: NETCOMplete v3.20, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: sickgear@ix.netcom.com On 05/15/98 13:19:36 you wrote: > >"Hows-about adding a link to someone that has appropriate software for >the decompression side?? (just asking)" > >Graphic Converter for the Mac is what I used to create the files, so it >works fine. If someone has a pointer to something in the DOS world, i'd > ACDSee32 (the newest version) for win95 works to view the TIFF 4 schems from spies. You can download a trial version free from http://www.acdsystems.com/ It's the only thing I found that could view 'em, but I didn't look too hard. Derek sickgear@ix.netcom.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 15 15:02:53 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 15:01:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: i can't win... Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 22:01:35 GMT Message-ID: <355da6da.876125@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) >> The only missing statistic from the the comparative study, IMHO, is >> .ZIP. >> If all you're after is lossless compression large image files, .ZIP >> may=20 >> well provide results comparable to Zonn's format. ZIP creates files, that for the most part, are at least twice as big as = .BMZ, usually even bigger. =20 >Yeah, I dunno on that one. LHA, ARJ, and the like might do better or >worse I suppose... None of the "universal" compressors will compete with .BMZ, though there = is a standard I found out about after I was finishing up with .BMZ. It's = called JBIG and it uses the same core algorithm for compression. Unfortunately the = people writing it are (IMHO) very unix biased. There is source code available = for it, but it will only run on a 32 bit unix system and the protocol is very complicated. The source says: "Not tested on any other machines but = there are sure to be problems if 'int' does not =3D 'long int' on your compiler."=20 It's being designed to do progressive downloads (like .GIF and .JPG) and = so far nothing runs in anything PC (that I found -- I didn't look that hard). = Like it or not I believe that's a mistake on their part. Because of its = progressive nature, and all the stuff dealing with on the fly decoding it's memory = usage is very high, and the source was very hard to follow. Only the core is = similar to mine beyond that the algorithm gets complicated by allowing progressive downloads. As far as just plain compression I'm sure BMZ will do a better job. I = use a bigger model state (I look at more surrounding pixels to determine the = best guess at what the current pixel is). And I use real multiply and divide routines. JBIG uses a shift algorithm that is a heavily enforced patent = of IBMs. It's great for small processors that have trouble doing MUL and = DIV, on a pentium these instructions are pretty darned fast and not much is lost in= speed by using them, and a bit of compression is gained. > >> One caveat - if Zonn's format contains optimizations for long vertical >> lines as well as long horizontal lines, it may well outperform .GIF >> and >> .ZIP when applied to schematic drawings. Ok, I'll write up a simple document describing the algorithm, it's = basically pretty simple and was published back in 1981 as a competitor to the then = being considered FAX standard (there was no source given with the article). = I've tweaked the algorithm implementation a bit and converted it to real code. =20 >Someone should write a .BMZ plugin for Netscape and IExplorer. ;-) I thought of that, but JBIG really is the way to go there, and I'm not = sure if the newest releases of both won't already have JBIG in them -- the JBIG = people are really lobbying for it. It could depend a what IBM wants for its = patent. (BTW: Stac recently announced they own the patent on the PKZIP algorithm,= which is pretty funny because the patent is dated something like 10 years after= the publishing of the algorithm in 1977, and after PKZIP was already using it= -- PKZIP also claim a patent on their version of the algorithm. By it's own admission the patent office has no idea of how to deal with software = patents and is currently excepting all properly word patents and letting the courts = sort them out.) >> (This may only hold true for cases where the scan was performed with >> the >> schematic being very well lined-up with the scanner during the >> scanning >> process. For fun, take a .GIF of a schematic and rotate it by 2-3=20 >> degrees, and watch the size grow...)=20 .GIF would have a harder time with that than .BMZ would. =20 >Ahhhh, good point, but at sufficiently high resolution even an uneven >scan will probably have vertical or horizontal lines that are made up of >multiple-pixel widths. > >Of course this is kind-of amusing to me since I think the last IDE drive >I got for my PC has like 64K sectors or something anyway. 652 bytes >worth of schematic? 64K of file system... ;-) Right! But on my home page 652 bytes are 652 bytes when it comes to the = end of the month billing. The funny part is those 652 byte probably do take up = 64k of their file system. Not my problem! ;^) -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sat May 16 15:17:28 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 16 May 1998 15:17:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:15:40 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: i can't win... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: On Fri, 15 May 1998, Al Kossow wrote: > "Hows-about adding a link to someone that has appropriate software for > the decompression side?? (just asking)" > > Graphic Converter for the Mac is what I used to create the files, so it > works fine. If someone has a pointer to something in the DOS world, i'd > be happy to add it > Ditto for the UNIX world. "Old reliable" tifftopnm doesn't seem to work. I get errors like: 4pFB1A.TIFF: Fax3Decode2D: Bad 2D code word at scanline 73. Which I assume means that tifftopnm can't handle this new compression scheme. xv does read the files, but they look and print horrible. xv was never good at printing stuff anyway. I just spent a few hours wading through the results of an Alta Vista search, and I didn't really turn up any suitable utilities to do this for UNIX. Joe From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 18 11:11:14 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 11:10:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Question and misc... Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:08:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Hi everyone. Rainy as all hell here last weekend so I got some time in on game-projects... Question: What's a reasonable price to ask for a new yoke for a B/W XY monitor? (Selling one to somebody and I don't want to be too high, or too low either... ;-) Misc #1: In my rather limited testing, it seems that a MC68A09EP processor (the slower rated sibling of the MC68B09EP used in Star Wars) will work just fine in a Star Wars CPU board. I only had two to try, but both seemed to work fine. YMMV Misc #2: I did some tinkering in Electronics Workbench modeling the behavior of the Cinematronics "bloom-clamp". It's kinda neat. Analog design is pretty funky stuff to me, so I needed to *see* what it was doing to actually understand it. http://www.e-volve.net/~clay/cinemat.gif ...is a "virtual" o-scope trace of the bloom-clamp in action on a 1KHz triangle wave. The blue trace is the "ideal" triangle wave, the red trace is the output of the bloom-clamp. The bloom-clamp provides gain on the input signal, so the scales for the input and output waves are different. Essentially the circuit provides a fairly linear gain characteristic (with a little bit of boost to low voltages), but the gain starts to roll off as the input voltage increases. For low input voltages the gain is close to 2:1, but as the input voltage increases the gain drops off in a "curve" like fashion. I suppose this would have the effect of "pulling in" parts of an image near the edges of the CRT (near the edge of deflection where input voltages are greater). It also looks like it might cause a little distortion of its own near the center of the screen though too... I'm going to try to hack it into one of the Display Corrector PCB's instead of the "standard" feedback resistor. See what happens. ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 18 15:03:58 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:03:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:01:06 -0400 (EDT) From: David Shuman To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Display Corrector... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: David Shuman > > So, is it true that there is a way to hook Sega vector games up to > > a wells monitor? Is it written up somewhere? > > be appreciated. > > > Yep, there's a way to do it. I think it was just a couple op-amps to > perform some input matching to the monitor. I want to say that David > Shoemaker did the original write-up? I think Al has it on the Spies > archive. If not, I know I have a copy printed out somewhere. Actually, it was me, David Shuman. Certainly I do not mind being mistaken for the distinguished Mr. Shoemaker, but I felt the need to set the record straight... :-) Last time I saw a copy of my Sega-to-WG post it was on Kevin Phillips' website. -- David S. Shuman (now David S. Shuman, J.D.!) University of Virginia School of Law '98 From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 18 15:31:57 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:31:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3FF8121C9B6DD111812100805F31FC0D03E3F641@red-msg-59.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (Comforce/RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Cc: David Shuman Subject: RE: Display Corrector... Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:17:20 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2217.0) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "David Shoemaker (Comforce/RhoTech)" > > > So, is it true that there is a way to hook Sega vector games up to > > > a wells monitor? Is it written up somewhere? > > > be appreciated. > > > > > Yep, there's a way to do it. I think it was just a couple op-amps to > > perform some input matching to the monitor. I want to say that David > > Shoemaker did the original write-up? I think Al has it on the Spies > > archive. If not, I know I have a copy printed out somewhere. > > Actually, it was me, David Shuman. Certainly I do not mind being > mistaken for the distinguished Mr. Shoemaker, but I felt the need to set > the record straight... :-) > > Last time I saw a copy of my Sega-to-WG post it was on Kevin Phillips' > website. > -- > David S. Shuman (now David S. Shuman, J.D.!) > Leave it to a lawyer to set the record straight :) He beat me to the confession though. David (Shoemaker that is :) David From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 18 15:35:59 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:35:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Display Corrector... Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:34:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Actually, it was me, David Shuman. Certainly I do not mind being > mistaken for the distinguished Mr. Shoemaker, but I felt the need to > set > the record straight... :-) > Yikes! Shuman's gunna be a lawyer! Better get my story straight... > My post was in no way meant to malign the reputation or stature of Messers Shoemaker or Shuman and it is with deep regret and utmost sincerity that I most humbly appologize for any inconvenience or damages (expressed or implied) that this error may have caused. ;-) [...] > -- > David S. Shuman (now David S. Shuman, J.D.!) > University of Virginia School of Law '98 > > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 18 15:56:48 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:56:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:55:25 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: G08 Deflection Transistors Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Hey all, I need to fix a G08 (no Y deflection) and I was browsing through the vectorlist archives and found that there was some question about what to replace the output power transistors with... The schematic that I have (in a Star Trek manual) shows 2N6259s (which cross to NTE/ECG 388) Other possibilities that were thrown out were: 2N5631 (Crosses to NTE/ECE 60) MJ15003 (Also crosses to NTE/ECG 60) 2N6341 (Which crosses to NTE/ECG 327) BUV22 (Which I can't cross to anything) What are y'all using to replace the output transistors? Thanks, Joe From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 18 16:16:19 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:16:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Display Corrector stuff... Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:14:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill The Display Corrector boards are pretty much coming together for this first batch. (About 10 of 'em) I'm going to get rid of one of the order options and simplify things a bit: Option 1: $20 US. Bare board with bill of materials, schematic, etc. No warranty. You get the parts and build it. If it doesn't work, you fix it. ;-) Option 2: $35 US. Fully assembled and tested unit with bill of materials, schematic, etc. This is configured for Star Wars and/or Major Havoc. (For those that want to experiment, the circuitry is on the board for supporting Sega games... hopefully ;-) If you want one, just send me a check for the purchase price (include some $$$ for shipping if you would). I'll ship relative to what you include for shipping. ($0-2.99 = mail, $3 = Priority mail, $7 = DHL 2-day, $25 = FedEx overnight, $1000 = drive it to your door myself, etc.) ************ Word of warning for people that want the "build it yourself" version: ************ This requires a decent soldering iron and some pretty good soldering skills. (The whole thing is flooded with ground-plane with .01" gap between pad and plane, so it's easy to get shorts-- be careful! Surface mount parts on top too...) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 18 16:36:35 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:36:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Display Corrector stuff... Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:34:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day Clay (and folks), Below you say that the corrector will be configured for SW or MH...what about Quantum? Is anyone else planning to use it on a Quantum PCB in an older Atari cabinet like my Space Duel? Steven S Ozdemir sso@plpt.com (my company's new named) sso@dsc.com (good for a few more months) ozdemir@xenon.stanford.edu (permanent...weekly) ps - I have the Space Duel->Major Havoc converter board by Atari...as I understand it, this does the same thing as Clay's Display Corrector? > ---------- > From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:ClayC@diamondmm.com] > Sent: Monday, May 18, 1998 4:14 PM > To: 'vectorlist@spies.com' > Cc: Clay Cowgill > Subject: Display Corrector stuff... > > The Display Corrector boards are pretty much coming together for this > first batch. (About 10 of 'em) > > I'm going to get rid of one of the order options and simplify things a > bit: > > Option 1: $20 US. Bare board with bill of materials, schematic, etc. > No warranty. You get the parts and build it. If it doesn't work, you > fix it. ;-) > > Option 2: $35 US. Fully assembled and tested unit with bill of > materials, schematic, etc. This is configured for Star Wars and/or > Major Havoc. (For those that want to experiment, the circuitry is on > the board for supporting Sega games... hopefully ;-) > > If you want one, just send me a check for the purchase price (include > some $$$ for shipping if you would). I'll ship relative to what you > include for shipping. ($0-2.99 = mail, $3 = Priority mail, $7 = DHL > 2-day, $25 = FedEx overnight, $1000 = drive it to your door myself, > etc.) > > ************ > Word of warning for people that want the "build it yourself" version: > ************ > > This requires a decent soldering iron and some pretty good soldering > skills. (The whole thing is flooded with ground-plane with .01" gap > between pad and plane, so it's easy to get shorts-- be careful! > Surface > mount parts on top too...) > > -Clay > > Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager > ------------------------------------------------- > /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. > \/ Communications Division > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 18 17:22:56 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:22:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sent: 19 May 1998 00:21:28 GMT Message-ID: <3560CF5A.5314@netconx.net> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:16:26 -0500 From: Todd Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: G08 Deflection Transistors References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Todd Miller jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote: > > Hey all, > > I need to fix a G08 (no Y deflection) and I was browsing > through the vectorlist archives and found that there was some > question about what to replace the output power transistors with... > I rebuilt a my G08 and used the MJ15003's. MCM has them around the $6-$8 (each). They do run on the warm side, so I placed an extra fan in the monitor access door so it would blow across the heatsink/transistor assembly. I'v ran it as long as 3 hrs at a time with no problems. -- Thanks Todd http://www.netconx.net/~litterbox From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 18 17:27:56 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 17:27:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Display Corrector stuff... Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:26:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > G'day Clay (and folks), > > Below you say that the corrector will be configured for SW or > MH...what > about Quantum? Is anyone else planning to use it on a Quantum PCB in > an > older Atari cabinet like my Space Duel? > Hmmm. I suppose that's right... Quantum did run on an Amplifone didn't it? The display corrector can pretty much be used with anything that doesn't have a "corrector" already built into it. (Black Widow/Gravitar, Tempest, Space Duel all have it built in.) (You *can* hook it up to something with a corrector built in, but it makes for some pretty weird displays... ;-) One little "neat" thing about the corrector is if you add a SPST switch in series with the Y-axis input signal you can use that as a "corrector on/off" switch. Handy if you're going to attach the corrector to a monitor rather than a PCB... (Or for just checking if it's *really* doing anything. ;-) When I sell the correctors on RGVAM I'm only going to bill it as a Star Wars/Major Havoc (and maybe Quantum) fixer-upper. I figure most people on this list are willing to tinker with it for fun, but I don't want to support "WHY DOESN'T YOURE CORRECTOR WERK ON MY WELLSGARNDER BW DISPLAY WITH MY ASTEROIDS BOARD!@!?" type questions from people that probably shouldn't be installing it in the first place... ;-) > ps - I have the Space Duel->Major Havoc converter board by Atari...as > I understand it, this does the same thing as Clay's Display Corrector? It should. I ended up changing the design quite a bit because for some reason or other the Major Havoc type corrector didn't work particularly well for Star Wars. I settled on a variable-correction factor that lets you dial in the about of change you want. (So that it would theoretically work on G-08's or whatever else...) -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 18 18:49:13 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 18:49:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980518184424.007f6e58@frobozz.qualcomm.com> X-Sender: sswazey@frobozz.qualcomm.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:44:24 -0700 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Scott Swazey Subject: Re: Display Corrector stuff... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Scott Swazey Clay, As I said before, I would like to buy one of the display correctors (option #2) for $35 + $3 shipping. Would you please send me your address? Thanks, -Scott At 04:14 PM 5/18/98 -0700, you wrote: >Option 2: $35 US. Fully assembled and tested unit with bill of >materials, schematic, etc. Scott Swazey QUALCOMM Incorporated Work: (619) 657-2419 mailto:sswazey@qualcomm.com V-209H Pager:(619) 683-5210 From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 18 19:40:27 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 18 May 1998 19:40:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: woodcock@123net.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:42:04 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: Display Corrector works! Cc: Clay Cowgill Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 12:44 5/15/98, Clay Cowgill wrote: >$35 fully assembled and tested. (Normal Clay Warranty--I'll help you to >the best of my ability if you ever have problems with it.) > >Let me know if any of you want one of these. I'll re-iterate that these >will probably bee the only "universal" ones I make. I think I'll just >do 'em for Star Wars and Major Havoc from now on since it's >easier/cheaper to do that way... I'll take 2 please! From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 19 08:27:19 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:27:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Display Corrector stuff... Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:25:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Hey Scott, I've got a reply to your other mail open-- just trying to figure out what to ask for an XY yoke... What do you think is a fair price? I'm at: Clay Cowgill 109 SE 175th Ave Vancouver, WA 98683 -Clay > ---------- > From: Scott Swazey[SMTP:sswazey@qualcomm.com] > Reply To: vectorlist@spies.com > Sent: Monday, May 18, 1998 6:44 PM > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: Scott Swazey > Subject: Re: Display Corrector stuff... > > Clay, > As I said before, I would like to buy one of the display > correctors > (option #2) for $35 + $3 shipping. Would you please send me your > address? > > Thanks, > > -Scott > > > > At 04:14 PM 5/18/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Option 2: $35 US. Fully assembled and tested unit with bill of > >materials, schematic, etc. > > > Scott Swazey QUALCOMM Incorporated Work: (619) 657-2419 > mailto:sswazey@qualcomm.com V-209H Pager:(619) 683-5210 > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 19 08:50:53 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 08:50:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3561AAB2.53BB@an.hp.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:52:18 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Fair price for a yoke... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Joel Rosenzweig Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Hey Scott, > > I've got a reply to your other mail open-- just trying to figure out > what to ask for an XY yoke... What do you think is a fair price? > I paid $25 for a Wells Gardner color XY yoke. I think that's fair give or take a few bucks. Joel- From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 19 09:35:32 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:35:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <35610C10.6E74@istar.ca> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:35:28 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Fair price for a yoke... References: <3561AAB2.53BB@an.hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Joel Rosenzweig wrote: > > Clay Cowgill wrote: > > > > Hey Scott, > > > > I've got a reply to your other mail open-- just trying to figure out > > what to ask for an XY yoke... What do you think is a fair price? > > > > I paid $25 for a Wells Gardner color XY yoke. I think that's fair give > or take a few bucks. > > Joel- Well, if you order a replacement yoke from WG you will find the price is a bit more...like about $75US. That's new of course, but that option is available if you need it... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 19 09:43:43 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 09:43:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: First batch of display correctors spoken for... Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:42:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Just a heads-up. Looks like the first batch of display correctors is spoken for at this point. If any of you still want one, that's fine-- you'll just need to wait until I do the second type with through-hole parts. I'll send a note around when those are done. I'm not expecting parts until the first week in June though... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 19 13:51:37 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:50:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3561F0E2.1101@an.hp.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:51:46 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: FS: HP 5004A Signature Analyzer References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Joel Rosenzweig I was at the Dayton ham radio flea market this past weekend, and picked up some goodies. One of which, is an HP 5004A Signature Analyzer. I already own one, but I know that others would find this a useful piece of test equipment, so I'm offering it here. This unit works great, is cosmetically very nice, and is complete with the clips that attach to the probe. I bought it for $75, so I'll offer it here for the same plus $5 shipping. For those that don't know, this unit is used to perform signature analysis on Atari and Cinematronics (possibly others) game boards. I've used them to successfully debug Battlezone mathbox problems. If interested, mail me directly. Thanks, Joel- From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 19 13:57:18 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 13:57:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:57:08 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: FS: HP 5004A Signature Analyzer Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) I picked up a couple extra at a flea market two weeks ago too. Now, if I can just talk someone into loaning me the manual to scan.. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 19 14:10:19 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 14:10:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3561F580.2DD2@an.hp.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:11:28 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: FS: HP 5004A Signature Analyzer References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Joel Rosenzweig Al Kossow wrote: > > I picked up a couple extra at a flea market two weeks ago too. > Now, if I can just talk someone into loaning me the manual to > scan.. If I had one, I'd loan it to you, Al. Fortunately, I didn't find that I needed the manual since the schematics tell you how to setup the device anyway. I actually saw a manual w/machine at Dayton, but they guy didn't want to sell them separately, and I couldn't rationalize buying a third piece. :-) Joel- From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 19 20:16:10 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:15:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:14:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Yet Another Tempest Spinner Lubricant Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" Previously, on Chris's Tempest: Chris tried to buy Teflon lube at his local Radio Shack, but they don't carry it. He did clean and lubircate the spinner with Color TV Tuner CLeaner. --- So I'm in my local drug store -- not a CVS chain, but a local Mom and Pop type, that also carries cards and health food and weird toys and such. There on the counter I see a glass jar with a bunch of pen-sized tubes in it: Yomega Brain Lube With Teflon Official lubricant for YOMEGA -- The Yo-Yo with a BRAIN 7ml for $2.99 We'll see how this works. ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 20 08:00:55 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 08:00:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "TomW" To: Subject: HP 5004A Signature Analyzer Manuals Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:30:34 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "TomW" Al, I just 'rented' a manual set and some kinda technical addendum from WJ Ford Surplus. They are in Canada, and said it would take 2 weeks to get here (USA). Once I get it I'll scan it and post it to Wiretap for all... TomW ---------- > From: Al Kossow > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: Al Kossow > Subject: Re: FS: HP 5004A Signature Analyzer > Date: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 2:57 PM > > I picked up a couple extra at a flea market two weeks ago too. > Now, if I can just talk someone into loaning me the manual to > scan.. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 20 08:14:38 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 08:14:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:13:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist@spies.com cc: TomW Subject: Re: HP 5004A Signature Analyzer Manuals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mitchell Rohde That's funny! I bought an HP5004A from them about 3 months ago, and when I asked about a manual, "Oh no, sir, sorry... we don't have a manual for this unit".... maybe I didn't grovel enough... Mitch On Wed, 20 May 1998, TomW wrote: > Al, > > I just 'rented' a manual set and some kinda technical addendum from WJ Ford > Surplus. They are in Canada, and said it would take 2 weeks to get here > (USA). Once I get it I'll scan it and post it to Wiretap for all... > > TomW > > > ---------- > > From: Al Kossow > > To: vectorlist@spies.com > > Cc: Al Kossow > > Subject: Re: FS: HP 5004A Signature Analyzer > > Date: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 2:57 PM > > > > I picked up a couple extra at a flea market two weeks ago too. > > Now, if I can just talk someone into loaning me the manual to > > scan.. > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 20 09:03:23 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:03:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <01BD83E7.31FD2680@pc165.prog.altair.com> From: Frank Palazzolo To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Sega Star Trek & HP manuals Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:02:42 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Frank Palazzolo Well - I'm now a card carrying member of the vectorlist with my purchase of a fixer-upper Sega G80 game. I'm currently repairing Sega Star Trek, and figuring out exactly how the speech board works. This is being done in conjuction with simulating the SP0250 speech chip. If this is successful, it will be possible to change the speech content for new or modified G80 games. Right now I'm still at square one with the repair - the game looks complete, but I get no game sounds. I get the intermittent white dot on the screen. I still need to check the obvious things, like the power supplies. Since I'm still feeling lucky, are there any Sega Multi-game kits left? I hope I'll need one soon ;) Also, while the HP manual thread is still going... I bought an HP 1630D logic analyzer at the Dayton Hamvention, and now I'm looking for a manual. I can buy one from HP, but if someone here has one laying around I'd be willing to scan it in and make it available. Thanks, -Frank Palazzolo (New email address) palazzol@home.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 20 09:25:27 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 09:25:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Sega Star Trek & HP manuals Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:23:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Well - I'm now a card carrying member of the vectorlist with my > purchase of a fixer-upper Sega G80 game. > Congrats! Good choice... > I'm currently repairing Sega Star Trek, and figuring out exactly how > the speech board works. This is being done in conjuction with > simulating the SP0250 speech chip. If this is successful, it will be > possible to change the speech content for new or modified G80 games. > Yay! :-) Travis Hagen and I were working on a new game a while back. We needed speech though. ;-) (Travis is a much better artist-type than I am, so he was doing all the graphics and some concpet stuff...) > Right now I'm still at square one with the repair - the game looks > complete, but I get no game sounds. I get the intermittent white dot > on the screen. I still need to check the obvious things, like the > power > supplies. Since I'm still feeling lucky, are there any Sega > Multi-game > kits left? I hope I'll need one soon ;) > Yep, check the power supplies. Do you have an o'scope? If so, I'd just disconnect the monitor and sound/speech board and remove the card-cage and run it off a PC-switching power supply to get started. I little more portable/accessable than inside a G-80 cabinet... You can also unscrew the "backplane" from the card cage and put that on your desk and just plug the card into that so you can probe everything without having it inside the RFI cage... I've got about a dozen or so Multigames left-- just built up a couple more for a couple people I still owe. I'll start another one just in case you're successful... ;-) -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 20 14:49:44 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:48:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:45:36 +0100 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Trollian Subject: Re: Prototype games In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.01 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Trollian In message from Jeff Hendrix writes >1992. One is called "arcade classics" and it has 2 games on it. One is >missle command and the other centipede. They are complete rewrites and they >use a 68000 processor. This board needs 2 trackballs. I know of a complete prototype cabinet of this game here in England. I was informed by the ex-Atari employee (who wasn't very helpful) that his version has 3 games - Missile command,Centipede & Millepede. He would even not let me inspect/photograph it, never mind my offering silly money for it. He mentioned it was shown at the London ATEI show and has remained with him ever since as only 5 protos were made. Its marquee title is 'Atari Classics' Talking of Prototypes: I have a dedicated Atari Time Scanner Anyone ever seen the proto game Freeze by Atari. Anybody want a flyer for Hard Drivin' Airborne. -- XY-Man (UK) From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 20 14:58:28 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 14:58:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3563528C.AB5C6362@tir.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:00:44 -0400 From: Scott Goings X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Star Trek & HP manuals References: <01BD83E7.31FD2680@pc165.prog.altair.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Scott Goings Frank: Did you get that Tetris game home from Indy yet? Scott Goings Frank Palazzolo wrote: > Well - I'm now a card carrying member of the vectorlist with my > purchase of a fixer-upper Sega G80 game. > > I'm currently repairing Sega Star Trek, and figuring out exactly how > the speech board works. This is being done in conjuction with > simulating the SP0250 speech chip. If this is successful, it will be > possible to change the speech content for new or modified G80 games. > > Right now I'm still at square one with the repair - the game looks > complete, but I get no game sounds. I get the intermittent white dot > on the screen. I still need to check the obvious things, like the power > supplies. Since I'm still feeling lucky, are there any Sega Multi-game > kits left? I hope I'll need one soon ;) > > Also, while the HP manual thread is still going... > > I bought an HP 1630D logic analyzer at the Dayton Hamvention, > and now I'm looking for a manual. I can buy one from HP, but if > someone here has one laying around I'd be willing to scan it in and > make it available. > > Thanks, > -Frank Palazzolo > > (New email address) > palazzol@home.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 20 15:12:20 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 15:12:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Anyone recognize this part number? Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:10:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill It's Atari... C010444D-03 I don't recognize it. In the "could be interesting, could be a lot of work" category-- If I recall properly, Atari did a lot of their custom IC development on GAL6001's. (Maybe even the SLAPSTICs?) Anyway, in a box of old Atari bits and pieces I found about 10 or so Atari-marked GAL6001's. They're probably circa mid 80's. I might give a shot at reading out the contents in the (pretty-good) chance that they don't have any protection fuses blown... If anyone's looking for a project I can make the data available and (whoever) can try to figure out what they might have been and if they're good for anything. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 20 18:47:26 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 18:47:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:08:00 -0600 From: "Shannon & Jess (remote)" Subject: Re: FS: HP 5004A Signature Analyzer To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-id: <35627340.5913@magenta.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Shannon & Jess (remote)" Al Kossow wrote: > > I picked up a couple extra at a flea market two weeks ago too. > Now, if I can just talk someone into loaning me the manual to > scan.. Whoops, I forgot about that! :-0 I have acrobat now so I will scan the whole manual in when I get back from my vacation to the east on thursday (yes, I still read the vectorlist while on vacation! :-) I will do it at 300-400 dpi. jess From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 20 20:49:00 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 20 May 1998 20:48:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980520224238.00867ec0@mail.tyler.net> X-Sender: tyr53870@mail.tyler.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:47:35 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Phil Yellott Subject: Star Trek G-08 Tips Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Phil Yellott I am getting a working Star Trek Cockpit tomorrow, anyone have any tips on how to attempt, if possible, to prolong the life of the monitor? I ALREADY have a fire extinguisher, thanks! Some mod that could "bulletproof" this sucker, or some alternate monitor suggestions, would be seriously cool. I presume a fan added to blow over the monitor boards would be a good thing???? What about power supply? (I presume it's linear...) Boards are in a card cage if I remember...... Anything neat I can do like run TAC-SCAN easily on this??? (Since Tac-Scan, as I remember, uses 2 buttons and a similar spinner to Star Trek) Any help is appreciated! Phil - Phil Yellott (pyellott@longview.net) (http://www.tyler.net/zarek) - From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 21 06:16:12 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 06:15:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199805211314.JAA23061@camel8.mindspring.com> From: "The Retrodaddy" To: Subject: Re: Star Trek G-08 Tips Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:12:32 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "The Retrodaddy" > Anything neat I can do like run TAC-SCAN easily on this??? (Since Tac-Scan, > as I remember, uses 2 buttons and a similar spinner to Star Trek) Get one of Clay's multi game boards. Run all the sega vector games in that machine. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 21 06:30:40 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 06:30:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:32:33 -0500 From: Mike Benedict Subject: Re: cine exorcisor update In-reply-to: X-Sender: benedict_m@pop.palmer.edu To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-id: <3.0.3.32.19980521083233.00bfe9e8@pop.palmer.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mike Benedict Whats the latest word on the Cine Exorcisor? I just brought back a couple HP5004As and a HP5006A from the Dayton Hamconvention and I can't wait to try them on a dead Space Wars. Thanks Mike Benedict At 04:23 PM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: > >I haven't sent a message about this in a while.. The boards are built, and >Joe has them. They are generating the correct signatures, but I haven't >tried plugging one into a cpu board yet > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 21 08:50:28 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 08:50:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: cine exorcisor update Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:48:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day folks, Joe Welser had successful duplicated it. Joe's on vacation in San Diego, and I'll be bringing my Cinematronics Exorcisor down there this weekend for him to look at (and some hacking). Steven S Ozdemir sso@plpt.com (my company's new named) sso@dsc.com (good for a few more months) ozdemir@xenon.stanford.edu (permanent...weekly) ps - Look into the archives and you can find what programmable parts you need to make your own. As I remember the equipment to program the part isn't readily available. > ---------- > From: Mike Benedict[SMTP:benedict_m@palmer.edu] > Sent: Thursday, May 21, 1998 6:32 AM > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: Mike Benedict > Subject: Re: cine exorcisor update > > Whats the latest word on the Cine Exorcisor? I just brought back a > couple > HP5004As and a HP5006A from the Dayton Hamconvention and I can't wait > to > try them on a dead Space Wars. > > Thanks > Mike Benedict > > > At 04:23 PM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote: > > > >I haven't sent a message about this in a while.. The boards are > built, and > >Joe has them. They are generating the correct signatures, but I > haven't > >tried plugging one into a cpu board yet > > > > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 21 09:47:16 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 09:47:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:47:06 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: cine exorcisor update Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) "Joe Welser had successful duplicated it." ..he also has a handfull of assembled PC boards that I made for him. I've been waiting for him to make the annoucement about it, though. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 21 12:06:58 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 12:06:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:09:02 -0500 From: Mike Benedict Subject: RE: cine exorcisor update In-reply-to: X-Sender: benedict_m@pop.palmer.edu To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-id: <3.0.3.32.19980521140902.00b12080@pop.palmer.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mike Benedict Suggested retail price? Do you know if they are spoken for? At 09:47 5/21/98 -0700, you wrote: >"Joe Welser had successful duplicated it." > >..he also has a handfull of assembled PC boards that I made >for him. I've been waiting for him to make the annoucement >about it, though. > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 21 13:28:40 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 13:28:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Star Trek G-08 Tips Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 13:26:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > I am getting a working Star Trek Cockpit tomorrow, anyone have any > tips on > how to attempt, if possible, to prolong the life of the monitor? I > ALREADY have a fire extinguisher, thanks! > Try to find an older Halon (sp?) fire extinguisher. Much preferred for electrical fires. ;-) I dunno if the new eco-safe stuff works as well or not... > Some mod that could "bulletproof" this sucker, or some alternate > monitor > suggestions, would be seriously cool. > > I presume a fan added to blow over the monitor boards would be a good > thing???? > What about power supply? (I presume it's linear...) > Boards are in a card cage if I remember...... > You might want to replace the fans (usually there are three?) if for no other reason than they're 120V AC fans and noisy as hell. I'd definately switch the power supply for the boards over to a PC-switching supply too. As I recall it's "bad" for the monitor if you lose one of the supply rails on the card-cage. Max-deflection type signal output or something... > Anything neat I can do like run TAC-SCAN easily on this??? (Since > Tac-Scan, > as I remember, uses 2 buttons and a similar spinner to Star Trek) > My Sega Multigame will run all the Sega Vector games in that cabinet. Tac/Scan will be "sideways" though unless you want to hook-up a a couple switches/relays to invert the signal outputs... -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 21 16:36:46 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 16:36:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <35641149.55EC@istar.ca> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 04:34:33 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: aek@spies.com, arcade@syslog.com, vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Wanted: Atari Automatic ROM/RAM tester operators manual References: <3.0.32.19980426022447.007de100@mail.tyler.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Hi! I'm looking for the users manual for that test fixture. I have a LOT of manuals and thus I am sure I could help you find that one you need. Could we work a trade for a copy of the operating manual? Thanks! John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 21 16:38:12 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 16:38:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:38:06 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: jrr@flippers.com Subject: Re: Wanted: Atari Automatic ROM/RAM tester operators manual Cc: arcade@syslog.com, vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) weird... I didn't see the original posting for this I just received a copy on loan that I'll scan in, along with the atari pinball repair manual.. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 21 19:19:13 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:19:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:19:31 -0600 From: Jess Askey Subject: HP5004 Manual is up. To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-id: <3564E06D.43B3@links.magenta.com> Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Hi all, Im just finishing the upload the the 5004 manual that I had a copy of. It is 63 pages scanned at 300dpi, total only ~6 meg. It is complete but not very pretty. My copy looks like about 3rd generation xerox. The scans actually look great but much of the small print is hard to read or even unreadable. The schems are pretty bad but are probably usable. If anyone ever gets a better copy I would be happy to scan them (or maybe Al as well?). All the pages are copied crooked too. :-( They are at http://www.gamearchive.com/tech/ laterz jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 21 20:27:19 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 20:27:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3564F001.7F8988EB@erols.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:24:49 -0400 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Star Trek G-08 Tips References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kev Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Some mod that could "bulletproof" this sucker, or some alternate > > monitor > > suggestions, would be seriously cool. > Hear, Hear! The approach of running on a Wells is about the only other solution at the moment? > > > > I presume a fan added to blow over the monitor boards would be a good > > thing???? > > What about power supply? (I presume it's linear...) > > Boards are in a card cage if I remember...... > > > You might want to replace the fans (usually there are three?) if for no > other reason than they're 120V AC fans and noisy as hell. > That "noisy as hell", aspect is one really cool feature! You must admit it is impressive to fire up the machine and hear all the whir as it cranks up & warms up. "Ah so another creature for my amusement!" -- Kev Mowerman@erols.com >>REMOVE THE ? to REPLY Looking for Pac-Man related hacks & Video Game Coin Op Page -> http://www.erols.com/mowerman From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 21 22:26:35 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 21 May 1998 22:26:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 01:25:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Anderson X-Sender: mayday19@u2.farm.idt.net To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Star Trek G-08 Tips In-Reply-To: <3564F001.7F8988EB@erols.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jeff Anderson > > > monitor > > > suggestions, would be seriously cool. > > > > Hear, Hear! The approach of running on a Wells is about the only other > solution at the moment? that really is too bad, the GO8 just looks better IMHO.. and I love how much more bright it is over any WG i've seen. I'd rather keep the GO8 no matter how unreliable it is over a WG any day.. I've been lucky with the GO8s though, all problems I've ever ran into are easy fixes. I think the GO8 should just be 'souped-up' a little bit to improve reliability. but substituting a WG is a good option for people who dont have a GO8.. > That "noisy as hell", aspect is one really cool feature! You must admit it > is impressive to fire up the machine and hear all the whir as it cranks up & > warms up. yeah, noisy fans in a ST cockpit are almost a 'feature', kinda like cig burns on williams games or a 'burr-ing' Tempest spinner. Jeff From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 06:28:04 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 06:27:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <5546B06BA6C5D11190070000F8B84471448267@DFSPO02.dofasco.ca> From: RANGER Mike To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:25:18 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: RANGER Mike Hi guys... Don't usually do stuff like this but if any one is in WA, it might be a steal....Then again, maybe spam. It was forwarded from the arcade mailing list... Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Weinrich [SMTP:Steve.Weinrich@Wonderware.COM] > Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 7:56 AM > To: 'arcade@syslog.com' > Subject: FS: Major Havock (WA) $85 > > Howdy folks. I'm not selling this, I just found this ad through > http://www.classifiedwarehouse.com > > I have no idea what condition the game is in, but I figured just the > cab. and marquee were worth that much, let alone a working game. > > Here ya go: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------- > State: WA Area Code: 360 Date: 5/21/1998 > > Major Havock Arcade style video game. $85 OBO. Call 887-8970. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------- > . . > | Posted to the Arcade Enthusiasts Mailing List | > | Webpage: http://www.syslog.com/arcade/ Help: arcade-request@syslog.com | From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 09:47:11 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 09:47:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:46:48 GMT Message-ID: <3565ab9b.71596631@tommy.doctord.com> References: <5546B06BA6C5D11190070000F8B84471448267@DFSPO02.dofasco.ca> In-Reply-To: <5546B06BA6C5D11190070000F8B84471448267@DFSPO02.dofasco.ca> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Fri, 22 May 1998 09:25:18 -0400, RANGER Mike = wrote: >Hi guys... > Don't usually do stuff like this but if any one is in WA, it might >be a steal....Then again, maybe spam. No way! A $500 M.H. is spam, an $85 M.H. is part of what this list is = all about! (IMHO). -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 10:04:28 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:04:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805221702.KAA29312@neptune.geoworks.com> From: Andrew Wilson To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: arcade@syslog.com In-reply-to: <5546B06BA6C5D11190070000F8B84471448267@DFSPO02.dofasco.ca> (message from RANGER Mike on Fri, 22 May 1998 09:25:18 -0400) Subject: Re: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Andrew Wilson I'll save you guys a long-distance phone call, and let you know that this baby is sold (surprise!). And, no, I didn't get it ;-( Drew From: RANGER Mike Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:25:18 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: RANGER Mike X-UIDL: a75c90cd32220adf39f30bb38984b0f2 Hi guys... Don't usually do stuff like this but if any one is in WA, it might be a steal....Then again, maybe spam. It was forwarded from the arcade mailing list... Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Weinrich [SMTP:Steve.Weinrich@Wonderware.COM] > Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 7:56 AM > To: 'arcade@syslog.com' > Subject: FS: Major Havock (WA) $85 > > Howdy folks. I'm not selling this, I just found this ad through > http://www.classifiedwarehouse.com > > I have no idea what condition the game is in, but I figured just the > cab. and marquee were worth that much, let alone a working game. > > Here ya go: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------- > State: WA Area Code: 360 Date: 5/21/1998 > > Major Havock Arcade style video game. $85 OBO. Call 887-8970. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------- > . . > | Posted to the Arcade Enthusiasts Mailing List | > | Webpage: http://www.syslog.com/arcade/ Help: arcade-request@syslog.com | From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 10:19:49 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:19:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <5546B06BA6C5D11190070000F8B8447144826F@DFSPO02.dofasco.ca> From: RANGER Mike To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:17:04 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: RANGER Mike > I'll save you guys a long-distance phone call, and let you know > that > this baby is sold (surprise!). And, no, I didn't get it ;-( > > [Mike Ranger Wrote:] I got a message from a fellow vector head saying... "Wow, thanks for the message Mike, looks like I got my hands on it!" I hope this means what I think it does...Another game in tha hands of the Vector List...Will he speak up and let us know? We want the details!!!! Mike From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 10:21:57 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:21:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: stuff I'm bringing to Cinefest...did I forget anything? Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:20:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day Zonn, BB PCB, CC PCB, Demon PCB, spare AA PCB, HP5004A, Cinematronics Exercisor, portable EPROM burner, portable dual variable power supply and multimeter. I probably should bring some basics like soldering iron, extention cord and some basic tools just in case. One thing I don't have is oscope probes. Did Gaymond have a chance to drop of the scope at your place? Have I forgotten anything?? Steven S Ozdemir sso@plpt.com (my company's new named) sso@dsc.com (good for a few more months) ozdemir@xenon.stanford.edu (permanent...weekly) ps - I'll send out more email today, but essentially it's just you, me, Joe and Ray getting together at your place Sunday at 10AM. See you then! > ---------- > From: zonn@zonn.com[SMTP:zonn@zonn.com] > Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 9:46 AM > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: zonn@zonn.com > Subject: Re: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 > > On Fri, 22 May 1998 09:25:18 -0400, RANGER Mike > wrote: > > >Hi guys... > > Don't usually do stuff like this but if any one is in WA, it > might > >be a steal....Then again, maybe spam. > > No way! A $500 M.H. is spam, an $85 M.H. is part of what this list is > all > about! (IMHO). > > -Zonn > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: > |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically > / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures > / / //\\ // (__) > / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com > -------| // \\/ > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 10:29:18 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:29:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <65C1CCAB7528D111947300A0C939B28217B42D@wolf.wonderware.com> From: Steve Weinrich To: "'arcade@syslog.com'" , vectorlist@spies.com Subject: RE: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:34:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Steve Weinrich Nope, wasn't spam, just me having too much time on my hands. ;-) It looked like such a good deal, I'm not surprised it's gone already. -Steve -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Wilson [mailto:Andrew_Wilson@geoworks.com] Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 1:03 PM To: vectorlist@spies.com Cc: arcade@syslog.com Subject: Re: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 I'll save you guys a long-distance phone call, and let you know that this baby is sold (surprise!). And, no, I didn't get it ;-( Drew From: RANGER Mike Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:25:18 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: RANGER Mike X-UIDL: a75c90cd32220adf39f30bb38984b0f2 Hi guys... Don't usually do stuff like this but if any one is in WA, it might be a steal....Then again, maybe spam. It was forwarded from the arcade mailing list... Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Weinrich [SMTP:Steve.Weinrich@Wonderware.COM] > Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 7:56 AM > To: 'arcade@syslog.com' > Subject: FS: Major Havock (WA) $85 > > Howdy folks. I'm not selling this, I just found this ad through > http://www.classifiedwarehouse.com > > I have no idea what condition the game is in, but I figured just the > cab. and marquee were worth that much, let alone a working game. > > Here ya go: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------- > State: WA Area Code: 360 Date: 5/21/1998 > > Major Havock Arcade style video game. $85 OBO. Call 887-8970. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------- > . . > | Posted to the Arcade Enthusiasts Mailing List | > | Webpage: http://www.syslog.com/arcade/ Help: arcade-request@syslog.com | . . | Posted to the Arcade Enthusiasts Mailing List | | Webpage: http://www.syslog.com/arcade/ Help: arcade-request@syslog.com | From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 10:30:02 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 10:29:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:29:56 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: stuff I'm bringing to Cinefest...did I forget anything? Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) I assume this is a repair marathon? ..probably directed to zonn, and not the whole list From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 11:14:31 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:14:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: stuff I'm bringing to Cinefest...did I forget anything? Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:14:02 GMT Message-ID: <3565be68.1789671@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Fri, 22 May 1998 10:20:14 -0700, "Ozdemir, Steve" = wrote: >G'day Zonn, > >BB PCB, CC PCB, Demon PCB, spare AA PCB, HP5004A, Cinematronics >Exercisor, portable EPROM burner, portable dual variable power supply >and multimeter. I probably should bring some basics like soldering >iron, extention cord and some basic tools just in case. One thing I >don't have is oscope probes. > >Did Gaymond have a chance to drop of the scope at your place? Have I >forgotten anything?? Wow it's a good thing I subscribe to vectorlist or I wouldn't get all my = mail! (Soldering Iron? What's a solder iron?) I'll let Steve know that I actually own a complete soldering station -- = WITH SOLDER! -- in a private email. Or maybe he's reading this? Hee hee! = ;^) (Uh, not to mention a scope, many variable power supplies, a portable = EPROM burner, a K&K Exercisor, and a multimeter or two.) Just to make this a legit post, does anybody have the documentation for a= K&K Cinematronics exercisor? -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 11:14:32 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:14:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: stuff I'm bringing to Cinefest...did I forget anything? Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:12:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day folks, Oops...did I forget to check that Zonn's email address was the only one on that last email? Yes! 8^) 8^) 8^) > Steven S Ozdemir > sso@plpt.com (my company's new named) > sso@dsc.com (good for a few more months) > ozdemir@xenon.stanford.edu (permanent...weekly) > ps - More than just a repair marathon...a state of mind! From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 11:48:05 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:48:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01dc01bd85b1$ee96ae80$14441ed1@flash.net> From: "Callan Hendricks" To: Subject: Re: stuff I'm bringing to Cinefest...did I forget anything? Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:46:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Callan Hendricks" Well... Since we vectorlist posting... :-) >Just to make this a legit post, does anybody have the documentation for a K&K >Cinematronics exercisor? I'll scan what I have for the exercisor tonight, and give it to Al to put on Spies... L8r, Callan. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 11:58:42 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:58:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: HP5004 Manual is up. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:57:52 GMT Message-ID: <3566c817.4268821@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3564E06D.43B3@links.magenta.com> In-Reply-To: <3564E06D.43B3@links.magenta.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Thu, 21 May 1998 20:19:31 -0600, Jess Askey = wrote: >Hi all, > Im just finishing the upload the the 5004 manual that I had a copy of. >It is 63 pages scanned at 300dpi, total only ~6 meg. It is complete but >not very pretty. My copy looks like about 3rd generation xerox. The >scans actually look great but much of the small print is hard to read or >even unreadable. The schems are pretty bad but are probably usable. If >anyone ever gets a better copy I would be happy to scan them (or maybe >Al as well?). All the pages are copied crooked too. :-( > They are at http://www.gamearchive.com/tech/ Thanks Jess! I've had a hard time finding this manual! BTW: If you have a fast CPU with a slow connection (56k or below), the = whole manual (stolen from Jess at the above site, ;^) then converted to 300 = d.p.i. .BMP files) and compressed with BMZ totals only 2.1meg (including BMZ.EXE= and a batch file to decompress the images.) You can download it directly at: www.zonn.com/Compression/HPSA.ZIP It'll take about 8 minutes (on a Pentium running at 133mhz) and 78meg of = disk space to decompress all the images. You can then use ACDSee's browse = mode to batch print the resulting .BMP files. After this weekend (I'll obviously be playing with some of Steve O.'s = Cine'stuff this weekend) I'll try scanning whole Cinematronics manuals and see how = big they end up, and depending on size start making them available for = downloading. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 11:58:55 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:58:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: stuff I'm bringing to Cinefest...did I forget anything? Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:57:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day Zonn and folks, Oops...looks like I need to apologize. My fumbling fingers got me in trouble again! I had no intention to offend Zonn by implying that he might have less than the ideal hacker's haven. To be honest, I was bringing all that equipment for Monday just in case we had to make due at Ray's place. With the recent move to San Diego, he hasn't had time to transfer his arcade hobby equipment. Steven S Ozdemir sso@plpt.com (my company's new named) sso@dsc.com (good for a few more months) ozdemir@xenon.stanford.edu (permanent...weekly) ps - I even heard rumors about how Ray had sunk so low as to be playing video games on a home console! 8^) 8^) 8^) What's the world coming to? > ---------- > From: zonn@zonn.com[SMTP:zonn@zonn.com] > Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 11:14 AM > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: zonn@zonn.com > Subject: Re: stuff I'm bringing to Cinefest...did I forget > anything? > > On Fri, 22 May 1998 10:20:14 -0700, "Ozdemir, Steve" > > wrote: > > >G'day Zonn, > > > >BB PCB, CC PCB, Demon PCB, spare AA PCB, HP5004A, Cinematronics > >Exercisor, portable EPROM burner, portable dual variable power supply > >and multimeter. I probably should bring some basics like soldering > >iron, extention cord and some basic tools just in case. One thing I > >don't have is oscope probes. > > > >Did Gaymond have a chance to drop of the scope at your place? Have I > >forgotten anything?? > > Wow it's a good thing I subscribe to vectorlist or I wouldn't get all > my mail! > > (Soldering Iron? What's a solder iron?) > > I'll let Steve know that I actually own a complete soldering station > -- WITH > SOLDER! -- in a private email. Or maybe he's reading this? Hee hee! > ;^) > > (Uh, not to mention a scope, many variable power supplies, a portable > EPROM > burner, a K&K Exercisor, and a multimeter or two.) > > Just to make this a legit post, does anybody have the documentation > for a K&K > Cinematronics exercisor? > > -Zonn > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< > > ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: > |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically > / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures > / / //\\ // (__) > / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com > -------| // \\/ > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 12:02:59 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:02:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:02:48 -0700 (PDT) From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: HP5004 Manual is up. Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) ok.. how did you extract the pages from the .pdf file? From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 12:47:39 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 12:45:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: stuff I'm bringing to Cinefest...did I forget anything? Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:45:03 GMT Message-ID: <3565d3fa.7312359@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Fri, 22 May 1998 11:57:18 -0700, "Ozdemir, Steve" = wrote: >G'day Zonn and folks, > >Oops...looks like I need to apologize. My fumbling fingers got me in >trouble again! I had no intention to offend Zonn by implying that he >might have less than the ideal hacker's haven. I wasn't offended!! I just can't resist a little joking when the = opportunity arises! (Like an accidental post with my name on it! Hee hee!) I expect the same treatment for any stupid things I might do! Keeps ya = honest! (And before this gets out of control, no Steve that wasn't implying you = were stupid! Stupid things don't imply stupid minds, I can't even count the = number of times I've locked my keys in my truck -- uh but then maybe I *AM* = stupid. I'll shut up now.) -Zonn "checking to make sure this isn't going out to RGVAC" Moore <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 13:07:01 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:06:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: HP5004 Manual is up. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 20:06:26 GMT Message-ID: <3565d833.8393769@tommy.doctord.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Fri, 22 May 1998 12:02:48 -0700 (PDT), aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) = wrote: >ok.. how did you extract the pages from the .pdf file? I spent an afternoon once trying to figure out how to do that. It turns out Ghostscript (available on all platforms) reads .PDF files = directly, and can convert them directly to postscript files. I don't know if it = can convert to .BMP files directly though (that'd be nice I should probably = read the manual or something) If you use Ghostview (which is a front end for ghostscript) you can copy = the current page to a clipboard (Alt-E, Alt-C) then paste it to a file as a = bitmap (Alt-E, Alt-P). Throw in a '+' for next page, and you can get the = keyboard rythm down, and crank through a 73 page document pretty darned fast! But make sure you have your "Media Description" set to the D.P.I., and = color depth, etc., you want to save at before you start! -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 13:22:54 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:22:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <9805222032.AA21270@Techsource.COM> From: "omar" To: Subject: Re: HP5004 Manual is up. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:24:01 -0400 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "omar" Zonn, David Haynes scanned (into Acrobat) some of my Cinematronics manuals. You could ask him which ones and save yourself some time. His e-mail is : haynesdl@nwfl.net He also has the contents of the entire manuals site on CD now. Omar >After this weekend (I'll obviously be playing with some of Steve O.'s Cine'stuff >this weekend) I'll try scanning whole Cinematronics manuals and see how big they >end up, and depending on size start making them available for downloading. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ ---------- From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 14:22:46 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 13:53:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3565E55C.AE14E032@virginia.edu> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:51:40 -0400 From: David Shuman Organization: University of Virginia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Star Trek G-08 Tips References: <3.0.32.19980520224238.00867ec0@mail.tyler.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: David Shuman > I am getting a working Star Trek Cockpit tomorrow, anyone have any tips on > how to attempt, if possible, to prolong the life of the monitor? Duncan Brown once told me that an operator he knew liked to mount the heatsink/transistor/fan unit on the outside of the game to improve airflow. I'm not sure I'd go this far, but I do like to remove the back panel from my Sega vector cabinets for the same reason. > Some mod that could "bulletproof" this sucker, or some alternate monitor > suggestions, would be seriously cool. One thing you should do immediately whenever you get a G-08 is resolder the header pins on the monitor boards. For some reason, the solder joints on this unit are very prone to cracking and creating open or intermittent connections. Also, make sure that the metal thingies inside the connector housings aren't bent all the way back--they need some "spring" in them to make good contact with the pins, so bend 'em back into shape if you have to. > I presume a fan added to blow over the monitor boards would be a good > thing???? It couldn't hurt, but I don't think it's necessary. The only section that really needs to be kept cool is the deflection transistor/heatsink unit, and as long as you leave the back door off the cabinet, the built-in fan should work fine. > What about power supply? (I presume it's linear...) The original G-80 power supply sucks. Cut the +5, -5, +12, and -12 leads and splice them into a proper switching power supply. I prefer the $8.95 Compaq PC power supplies available from B.G. Micro; they're small and cheap and they work great. You'll still want to keep the original power supply in the game for the audio amplification and some other miscellaneous voltages. While you're at it, you might like to buy a toggle switch to handle turning the game on and off. I like the kind that mounts in the same size and shape hole as those annoying interlock switches use--on Sega cabinets, I replace the interlock switch behind the front door with a big toggle. Click! > Anything neat I can do like run TAC-SCAN easily on this??? Not real easily, since Star Trek, if I remember right, uses a substantially different pinout from Tac/Scan. What I did for my Tac/Scan is put together a separate wiring harness for the Tac/Scan boardset, and I swap back and forth with the harness I use for Space Fury and Eliminator. -- David S. Shuman University of Virginia School of Law '98 From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 15:52:11 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 15:51:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <001401bd85d4$0439f4f0$da0c379d@dogbert.dns.microsoft.com> From: "Dan" To: Cc: "RANGER Mike" Subject: Re: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:50:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Dan" Yeah, I worked a deal out for it over the phone with the guy, I'll be picking it up tonight! Apparently the game works with the exception of the monitor (big surprise). In my excitement I clean forgot to ask him if it was dedicated or not, oh well I'll find out in a few hours! I'll post some pics when I have time to tomorrow. -Dan -----Original Message----- From: RANGER Mike To: 'vectorlist@spies.com' Cc: RANGER Mike Date: Friday, May 22, 1998 10:25 AM Subject: RE: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 > > > >> I'll save you guys a long-distance phone call, and let you know >> that >> this baby is sold (surprise!). And, no, I didn't get it ;-( >> >> > [Mike Ranger Wrote:] > > I got a message from a fellow vector head saying... > > "Wow, thanks for the message Mike, looks like I got my hands on it!" > > I hope this means what I think it does...Another game in tha hands >of the Vector List...Will he speak up and let us know? We want the >details!!!! > > Mike > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 17:03:54 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 17:03:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:02:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill !@#%!#$!@#$!@#$! !@#$!@#$!@#$ !@!!@$#!!!!! ONE DAY. ONE DAY I take off from work and don't read vectorlist and there's a Major Havoc LOCAL to me for $85. How do you tie a noose? -Clay > ---------- > From: Dan[SMTP:dans@oz.net] > Reply To: vectorlist@spies.com > Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 3:50 PM > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: RANGER Mike; Dan > Subject: Re: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 > > Yeah, I worked a deal out for it over the phone with the guy, I'll be > picking it up tonight! > > Apparently the game works with the exception of the monitor (big > surprise). > In my excitement I clean forgot to ask him if it was dedicated or not, > oh > well I'll find out in a few hours! > > I'll post some pics when I have time to tomorrow. > > -Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: RANGER Mike > To: 'vectorlist@spies.com' > Cc: RANGER Mike > Date: Friday, May 22, 1998 10:25 AM > Subject: RE: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 > > > > > > > > > >> I'll save you guys a long-distance phone call, and let you > know > >> that > >> this baby is sold (surprise!). And, no, I didn't get it ;-( > >> > >> > > [Mike Ranger Wrote:] > > > > I got a message from a fellow vector head saying... > > > > "Wow, thanks for the message Mike, looks like I got my hands on it!" > > > > I hope this means what I think it does...Another game in tha hands > >of the Vector List...Will he speak up and let us know? We want the > >details!!!! > > > > Mike > > > > > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 18:06:51 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 18:06:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:05:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Dan wrote: > Yeah, I worked a deal out for it over the phone with the guy, I'll be > picking it up tonight! > Congrats! I must admit that the thought crossed my mind to show up at the guys house early tomorrow and say "Hi, I'm Dan, here to pick up the game!", but I've (so-far) resisted temptation. ;-) Humph. Well, I got Great Western's $75 Major Havoc last year, so I guess I can't complain too much. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 19:04:44 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:04:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <35662E38.65AF940C@agouron.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:02:32 -0700 From: Ray Ghanbari Organization: Agouron Pharmaceuticals Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: stuff I'm bringing to Cinefest...did I forget anything? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Ray Ghanbari Ozdemir, Steve wrote: > > ps - I even heard rumors about how Ray had sunk so low as to be playing > video games on a home console! 8^) 8^) 8^) What's the world coming to? A nasty rumor perpetuated by that Jenison character. He's still smarting from the time I whipped him, Rick, and the late Alan in a 4 player Eliminator death match (my first and still only time having played Eliminator...time to retire ;-) Of course, my PSX w/ xxx games is a LOT more portable than my PCB collection, and my Vectrex takes a lot less room in my office than my Space Wars ;-) In my defence, I'm planning on interfacing my PSX to my new Rick-style Xenophobe/JAMMA cabinet, and my Vectrex to my Asteroids...does that count for anything? ;-) Ray From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 19:50:56 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 19:50:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980522214850.0084d2e0@mail.tyler.net> X-Sender: tyr53870@mail.tyler.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:48:57 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Phil Yellott Subject: Tech: Star Trek Fiberglass Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Phil Yellott Finally got the Star Trek cockpit home. YEAH! I got the encoder wheel lubed and cleaned, and I was wondering about the fiberglass: Mine is sorta off-white or Ivory colored, anyone know what color it was originally? Any tips for cleaning it? The artwork is in great shape. The fiberglass has the standard amount of scratches, but it's all in the plastic, none in the art. I would like to get this back to looking like mint, as far as possible. Could this be bleached whiter or painted with some sorta fiberglass paint? Im currently installing wheels with brakes (2 1/2", 125lb test each, 8 total), since I will need to be able to move this sucker. Thanks for all the tips everyone, Phil - Phil Yellott (pyellott@longview.net) (http://www.tyler.net/zarek) - From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 20:36:55 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 20:36:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <35664402.20B6B1A5@techsource.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 23:35:30 -0400 From: Omar Vega X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Cine/VB game release dates References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Omar Vega Al, Your invoice # from FA is 5320527 and the gross weight is 272 lbs. Please let me know when it arrives. I did not have a chance to plug it in so I would be interested to know if it works. Thanks and enjoy. Omar From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 22 23:52:19 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 22 May 1998 23:52:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3565C958.6BCC@istar.ca> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:52:08 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com, zonn@zonn.com Subject: Re: HP5004 Manual is up. References: <3564E06D.43B3@links.magenta.com> <3566c817.4268821@tommy.doctord.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Zonn wrote: > ... > > You can download it directly at: www.zonn.com/Compression/HPSA.ZIP ... Hi Zonn! (and list) Hmm..., actually you can't. Download it that is. Doesn't seem to be present...perhaps it is on it's way to the Sunday meeting? Sorry I don't live a little closer. John :-#?# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sat May 23 00:10:41 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 00:09:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3565CD5E.4373@istar.ca> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:09:18 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Star Trek G-08 Tips References: <3.0.32.19980520224238.00867ec0@mail.tyler.net> <3565E55C.AE14E032@virginia.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson David Shuman wrote: > > > I am getting a working Star Trek Cockpit tomorrow, anyone have any tips on > > how to attempt, if possible, to prolong the life of the monitor? > ... The responses so far cover much of my experience too, but just a side point, one of the reasons that the Electrohome Monitor got a reputation of blowing up was caused by the !@#$!@$@! game power power supply going intermittant. The power connectors would drive the MPU crazy and the drifting ground reference point would send the monitor into vast overdrive problems on the input, killing the output transistors. The moral is, for Vector based games, MAKE VERY SURE THAT THE GROUND CONNECTIONS ARE ROCK SOLID. ***Overkill is called for here. *** Sorry about yelling, but this will cure many monitors with "strange" problems. The input protection wouldn't hurt either but it assumed that the game board power (and ground) was good... John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sat May 23 07:17:39 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 07:17:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 08:19:47 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: RE: Display Corrector stuff... Cc: Clay Cowgill Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 8:25 5/19/98, Clay Cowgill wrote: >Hey Scott, > >I've got a reply to your other mail open-- just trying to figure out >what to ask for an XY yoke... What do you think is a fair price? I dunno; $50 or so? You've gotta look at what a whole monitor is worth and then go down from there... From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sat May 23 10:54:37 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 10:54:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:54:09 -0600 From: Jess Askey Subject: Major Havoc -> Gravitar/Space Duel Conversion Board To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-id: <35670D41.7F00@links.magenta.com> Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Hi everyone, Vectorlist gets first crack at this.. Im selling my conversion board that lets a major havoc board plug into either a Space Duel or a Gravitar Harness ( I dont' need it now that I own an Alpha 1 game :-) :-) It is basically just like Clay's Vector Corrector but it also swaps all the pinouts and is made by Atari. It is shaped just like all of Atari's RFI Shield boards. Works perfectly. Asking $30 shipped(US) or best offer. thanks. jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sat May 23 11:24:48 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 23 May 1998 11:24:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:23:35 -0500 (CDT) From: sickgear@ix.netcom.com To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-Id: <1998523111933741@ix.netcom.com> Subject: WTT: Cine Armor Attack for Space Wars board X-Mailer: NETCOMplete v3.20, from NETCOM On-Line Communications, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: sickgear@ix.netcom.com Hi all, In short, if you've got a working Space Wars main board and you'd like a working AA main board, let's trade! Or, if any of you (especially you CPU exorcisor guys who are about to become quite popular) wanna fix my non-working (draws a little "x" in the middle of the screen, that's it) Space Wars board I'd be quite happy to pay you! Thanks, Derek sickgear@ix.netcom.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun May 24 07:21:49 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 24 May 1998 07:21:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:23:24 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: Major Havoc -> Gravitar/Space Duel Conversion Board Cc: Jess Askey Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 11:54 5/23/98, Jess Askey wrote: >Hi everyone, > Vectorlist gets first crack at this.. > >Im selling my conversion board that lets a major havoc board plug into >either a Space Duel or a Gravitar Harness ( I dont' need it now that I >own an Alpha 1 game :-) :-) > It is basically just like Clay's Vector Corrector but it also swaps >all the pinouts and is made by Atari. It is shaped just like all of >Atari's RFI Shield boards. Works perfectly. Asking $30 shipped(US) or >best offer. I'll take it for $30, Jess. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun May 24 09:55:45 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 24 May 1998 09:55:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 10:55:23 -0600 From: Jess Askey Subject: Re: Major Havoc -> Gravitar/Space Duel Conversion Board To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-id: <356850C4.423B@links.magenta.com> Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Hi everyone, The board has been sold to Phil Yellott. thanks for all the interest. jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun May 24 11:10:21 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 24 May 1998 11:10:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 12:08:57 -0600 From: Jess Askey Subject: Some more for sale... To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-id: <35686238.6F33@links.magenta.com> Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Me again, It looks like I may be buying a house soon (finally, a real gameroom!) So Im considering selling off a bunch of stuff. Most is not vector related but in the vectorlist spirit I would much rather give all you guys first crack. Here is the list. I really don't know what some of this stuff is worth so Im putting the prices a bit high just because everyone always tells me I sell things for too little. If you like the price and think it is fair you can help me get a house :-) Otherwise make an offer and I may take it, first come first serve though. Bulk offers will be given price breaks. REMEMBER: reply to me and not the list!!!! Reply to all and then remove the vectorlist email from the CC. or mailto:jess@magenta.com Mystic Marathon boardset: works 100% still on sheet metal plate, includes manuals. $210. Firefox boardset: works 100%. With quad pokey IC ( you can eliminate the annoying Quad Pokey eliminator PCB on your major havoc with this!). $60 Bally Fathom Pinball Machine: email me (sorry this isn't vector :-) asking $600. Escape from the Planet of the Robot Monsters PCB - Works 100% JAMMA? $80 6 Asteroids Boardsets without ROM's - Unknown state but in decent condition. $40 Meadows Lazer Command PCB - Unknown condition but good shape $25. Kee Games double board (Marked K5T-D) I know it is a driving game but I dont' know which one. Unknown condition. $30 Unknown PCB - (URL??) Long and thin, marked Good and dated 8/20/74. The connector is hand wired to the PCB via lots of white wires. Has reference #'s in the font that your bank account uses for the routing #'s. PCB is not labeled with game name but has the # 2605 on it. No CPU of course. $30. Nutting boardset - big and square. Has 8 pots on the one edge and the connector in the middle of the board (molex) ASSY # 104-002 $30 Atari Super Bug PCB - missing power regulator $25 Atari Breakout PCB - nice condition $30 Atari/Kee LeMans PCB - Unknown but very nice $30 Atari Pong boardset (syzygy) - Unknown condition but very nice. $80 (2) Atari pinball CPU board - (Airborne Avenger) unknown but good shape. $100 for both. Atari Pinball Score display - unknown condition $50 Williams Make Trax boardset - works 100%. $25 URL PAddle Battle 1973 PCB - tagged as good. $30 Atari Pong Doubles PCB- unknowns condition very good $40 Atari Super Bug PCB - complete and marked good. $35 (2)Atari Crystal Castles PCB- tagged good, $65 each Atari Lunar Lander PCB - tagged good, $80 Atari Xevious PCB - unknown, $40 Atari Pole Position PCB - burned power connectors, unknown $75 Atari Asteroids Deluxe PCB - tagged good, $60 Atari Gauntlet PCB - works 100%, $50 Atari Skydiver PCB - unknown, good condition. $35 Atari Football PCB - unknown, good condition. $35 Atari Night Driver PCB - unknown, good condition $35 Atari Space Race PCB??? - has a diode ROM that looks like 1/2 of the ship shape on the graphics, pretty cool looking. I may be wrong about what game it is tho. PCB is labeled 1066AF and is hand written-> BF-1372. $35 thanks!!! Remember to reply to me!!! mailto:jess@magenta.com jess -- Jess M. Askey *** Coming Soon - The Game Archive *** Game Spot/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun May 24 12:17:42 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 24 May 1998 12:17:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <001401bd8748$10821ec0$0300000a@bigunit> From: "Dan" To: Cc: "Clay Cowgill" Subject: Re: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 12:13:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3007.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3007.0 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Dan" Actually, that would have been pretty funny if you had shown up the next morning, the poor guy had been deluged with phone calls since that message went out and he looked pretty relieved when I showed up and got it out of there (he did fail to mention the flight of stairs we had to go down to get the game out of the building *sigh*) I took some quick pictures of the game and slapped them up on my web page, you can take a look at them at http://www.oz.net/~dans/ I haven't edited the pictures yet, so they are very large, but that is good 'cause you can see all of the details on the game :) -Dan -----Original Message----- From: Clay Cowgill To: 'vectorlist@spies.com' Cc: Clay Cowgill Date: Friday, May 22, 1998 6:22 PM Subject: RE: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 >Dan wrote: > >> Yeah, I worked a deal out for it over the phone with the guy, I'll be >> picking it up tonight! >> >Congrats! I must admit that the thought crossed my mind to show up at >the guys house early tomorrow and say "Hi, I'm Dan, here to pick up the >game!", but I've (so-far) resisted temptation. ;-) > >Humph. Well, I got Great Western's $75 Major Havoc last year, so I >guess I can't complain too much. > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 25 01:23:26 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 01:23:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Kgowland Message-ID: <9690eff1.35692a12@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 04:21:37 EDT To: vectorlist@spies.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Tech: WG 6101 field mod Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kgowland Ok vectorheads, can someone tell me what this contraption does. It is a series of diodes and resistors on a WG 6101 314 deflection board that was added by someone in the field. It is in the X amp section. Sorry about the hieroglyphics: type Z5F capacitor ( ) __I I__ resistor ---[IIII]--- diode/direction ---[I ]--- point of solder * ---------[IIII]-----------*-----[ I]------*-------[ I]----*------------[I ]----------- I I I I I I ---[I ]--- I ---[IIII]--- I I ( ) I I I ( ) I I__I I__ __I R700 I __I I__ __I * * * * C700 C701 Thanks for any info in advance. Kirby G From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 25 02:00:48 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 02:00:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Kgowland Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 04:59:25 EDT To: vectorlist@spies.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Tech: Star Wars has partial graphics Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kgowland My Star Wars is wacked out right now. The opening screens with high scores and how-to-play and the scrolling attract mode all work fine. I coin- up and start. The screen with the three Death Star selections for difficulty comes up. The game starts and displays the cross-hairs and the lasers and the 4 laser guns on each corner. But the enemy tie fighters and Darth Vader's ship don't show up and the Death Star in the distance jumps around a bit. The screen seems to have a rainbow effect (similar to when you are degaussing a tube) fade in and out. The graphics in the trench scene are all compressed to thin lines and dots scattered about and move with the flight yoke movement. All the while, the laser guns, cross-hair and lasers are being displayed correctly. And when I get to where Han says "You're all clear, kid" and drop the bombs into the shaft (can't see the opening or walls of course, but it is easy to do blind on the easy level), the scene plays fine where you are escaping from the Death Star as it explodes. The self test mode reports no errors. This is not a problem with the monitor (a WG 6101) since it was just recapped and works fine with Space Duel, Black Widow, Tempest and Quantum. Is this a ROM problem or what? Any guesses or factual info is appreciated. Kirby G From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 25 02:06:09 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 02:06:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Kgowland Message-ID: <9d91b073.35693426@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 05:04:37 EDT To: vectorlist@spies.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Tech: WG 6101 field mod Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kgowland Let me try the schematic again: ---------[IIII]-----------*-----[ I]------*-------[ I]----*------------[I ]----------- I I I I I I ---[I ]--- I ---[IIII]--- I I ( ) I I I ( ) I I__I I__ __I R700 I __I I__ __I * * * * C700 C701 From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 25 02:19:19 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 02:19:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Kgowland Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 05:16:24 EDT To: vectorlist@spies.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Tech: WG 6101 field mod Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kgowland Let me try the schematic again: ---------[IIII]-----------*-----[ I]------*-------[ I]----*------------[I ]----------- I I I I I I ---[I ]--- I ---[IIII]--- I I ( ) I I I ( ) I I__I I__ __I R700 I __I I__ __I * * * * C700 C701 From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 25 02:29:43 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 02:29:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Kgowland Message-ID: <420046f4.356939a6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 05:28:05 EDT To: vectorlist@spies.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: (my last try) Tech: WG 6101 field mod Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kgowland Sorry about the mess guys, if this (my last try) doesn't work then I'll just have to take a picture tomorrow and post it. ---------[IIII]-----------*-----[ I]------*-------[ I]----*------------[I ]----------- I I I I I I ---[I ]--- I ---[IIII]--- I I ( ) I I I ( ) I I__I I__ __I R700 I __I I__ __I * * * * C700 C701 From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 25 05:23:16 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 05:23:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: djeffery@multipath.com (Doug Jefferys) Message-Id: <199805251223.IAA06891@mpws15> Subject: Re: Tech: Star Wars has partial graphics To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 08:23:40 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Kgowland" at May 25, 98 04:59:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: djeffery@multipath.com (Doug Jefferys) Once upon a time, Kgowland wrote > > The graphics in the trench scene are all compressed to > thin lines and dots scattered about and move with the > flight yoke movement. Offhand, it sounds like all the problems are with the 3-D parts of the game, indicating a math box problem - odd, however, that the self-test would report no errors. As for the schematic, if you're using a GUI-based e-mail tool, try using a non-proportional font (e.g. Courier) for the ASCII graphics. Later, Doug. -- Douglas W. Jefferys | Star Data Systems | Email: djeffery@multipath.com | From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 25 08:37:39 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 08:37:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 09:39:39 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: Tech: Star Wars has partial graphics Cc: Kgowland Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 4:59 5/25/98, Kgowland wrote: >comes up. The game starts and displays the cross-hairs and the lasers and the >4 laser guns on each corner. But the enemy tie fighters and Darth Vader's >ship don't show up and the Death Star in the distance jumps around a bit. The 1 or more of the 4 mathbox PROMs in the middle of the middle board (they are the ones you reprogram for the ESB kit) is bad. Check and replace. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 25 08:48:46 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 08:48:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "Frank Palazzolo" To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:46:51 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Tech: Star Wars has partial graphics In-reply-to: Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Frank Palazzolo" I've had to fix two boardsets with the bad mathbox prom problem. Strangely enough, they were both the "top-most" relative to how you place them in the enclosure. I wonder if that's the hottest place and therefore that one dies first, especially if the fan is broken. Also, if this is the problem, it's probably a good idea to replace them all. I was amazed at how much colder the newer PROMs would run compared to the original ones. Made me feel better ;) -Frank From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 25 09:21:34 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 09:21:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 12:21:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 In-Reply-To: <001401bd8748$10821ec0$0300000a@bigunit> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" On Sun, 24 May 1998, Dan wrote: > Actually, that would have been pretty funny if you had shown up the > next morning, > the poor guy had been deluged with phone calls since that message went out > and he looked pretty relieved when I showed up and got it out of there (he > did fail to mention the flight of stairs we had to go down to get the game > out of the building *sigh*) So how much do you want for it -- and will you ship to NY ? :-) Nice shape -- quite a find you have there . COngrats ! -Chris ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 25 10:12:13 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 10:12:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <5546B06BA6C5D11190070000F8B8447144827D@DFSPO02.dofasco.ca> From: Ranger Mike To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 13:12:07 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Ranger Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher X. Candreva [SMTP:chris@westnet.com] > Sent: Monday, May 25, 1998 12:21 PM > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: Christopher X. Candreva > Subject: Re: FW: Major Havock (WA) $85 > > On Sun, 24 May 1998, Dan wrote: > > > Actually, that would have been pretty funny if you had shown up > the > > next morning, > > the poor guy had been deluged with phone calls since that message went > out > > and he looked pretty relieved when I showed up and got it out of there > (he > > did fail to mention the flight of stairs we had to go down to get the > game > > out of the building *sigh*) > [Mike Ranger Wrote:] Imagine, telling him that a guy in boston (steve) told a guy in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (me) who told a guy in Washington (dan) about it... I imagine he is saying..."Dang...I could have gotten $100 for that!" Mike... Happy to have helped make someones day From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 25 11:13:07 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 11:12:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: HP5004 Manual is up. Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:12:41 GMT Message-ID: <3569af9e.260186439@tommy.doctord.com> References: <3564E06D.43B3@links.magenta.com> <3566c817.4268821@tommy.doctord.com> <3565C958.6BCC@istar.ca> In-Reply-To: <3565C958.6BCC@istar.ca> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Fri, 22 May 1998 11:52:08 -0700, John Robertson = wrote: >Zonn wrote: >>=20 >... >>=20 >> You can download it directly at: www.zonn.com/Compression/HPSA.ZIP >... > >Hi Zonn! (and list) > >Hmm..., actually you can't. Download it that is. Doesn't seem to be >present...perhaps it is on it's way to the Sunday meeting? Sorry I don't >live a little closer. Yeah, sorry about that! I blew it when I did the .PDF to .BMP = conversions. It turns out you *can't* type ahead using Ghostview to convert from .PDF to = .BMP. Images which were only half converted when the type ahead buffer is read = are saved as only half image .BMP files. Oh well. So as to keep someone from being pissed off by downloading a huge file = only to have it corrupt, I deleted the file. Unfortunately I left the originals = at work... Here's the fully (properly) converted manual (zipped up .BMZ files along = with BMZ.EXE and a .BAT file to decompress them) at the same address: www.zonn.com/Compression/HPSA.ZIP and it's 2.4meg long. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 25 20:02:22 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 20:01:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <356A3018.97D6E43C@erols.com> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 22:59:36 -0400 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vectorlist@spies.com" Subject: JEDEC File decoding Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kev I know this is a bit off topic but this is best way to reach the brightest minds of the collecting/gaming community..... I have a JED file on disk, can this be converted to a logic gate equivalent? The reason that I ask, this chip is used on a auxilary board plugged into a Pac-Man pcb to run a few different games and if I can dechiper what it is doing, possibly these games may be emultated and run on a Pac board as EPROMs only. Thanks, -- Kev Mowerman@erols.com >>REMOVE THE ? to REPLY Looking for Pac-Man related hacks & Video Game Coin Op Page -> http://www.erols.com/mowerman From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 25 20:07:27 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 20:07:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <356A3158.8D4A72DA@erols.com> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 23:04:56 -0400 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vectorlist@spies.com" Subject: Vector Test Fixtures for the bench. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kev Has anyone ever created a Vector test bench and if so how? I'm looking for something that I can incoporate with my present Pac-Man AC harness & Jamma test fixture, outputting to my O-scope. Atari games will need +-15 VDC. Are there any other considerations? I'm considering just taking a Atari Vector transformer, Vector Game harness (probably Tempest or Space Duel), Atari regulator board and slapping that all on a piece of wood. I'm guessing that I could get voltages for the Sega games from the same souce. -- Kev Mowerman@erols.com >>REMOVE THE ? to REPLY Looking for Pac-Man related hacks & Video Game Coin Op Page -> http://www.erols.com/mowerman From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 25 20:20:02 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 20:19:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <356A3480.2B872155@techsource.com> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 23:18:24 -0400 From: Omar Vega X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: JEDEC File decoding References: <356A3018.97D6E43C@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Omar Vega Kev, That's probably a JEDEC file used in programming many PLDs. They tend to be device specific "fuse maps" so converting one into a generic logic gate equivalent may be difficult. I've never bothered trying but I will double check to make sure this is the case when I get to work tomorrow. Thanks. Omar Kev wrote: > I know this is a bit off topic but this is best way to reach the > brightest minds of the collecting/gaming community..... > > I have a JED file on disk, can this be converted to a logic gate > equivalent? > > The reason that I ask, this chip is used on a auxilary board plugged > into a Pac-Man pcb to run a few different games and if I can dechiper > what it is doing, possibly these games may be emultated and run on a Pac > board as EPROMs only. > > Thanks, > -- > Kev Mowerman@erols.com >>REMOVE THE ? to REPLY > > Looking for Pac-Man related hacks & Video Game > > Coin Op Page -> http://www.erols.com/mowerman -- omar@techsource.com -- please use above address to reply, anti-spam in effect From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 25 20:38:16 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 20:38:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 23:36:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist@spies.com cc: Omar Vega Subject: Re: JEDEC File decoding In-Reply-To: <356A3480.2B872155@techsource.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mitchell Rohde Omar, you have it right.... but converting it back would be nasty. Most of the PLD design stuff goes like this: you give it your logic equations or state machine design or whatever in a script language, then the software compiles it into a fuse map (the jedec file) for a specific PLD or PAL. The problem with going backwards is that there is a logic reduction that goes on during the compile... if you've ever heard of Karnaugh maps, you know what I mean. It fits the equations and stuff from your logic design into the minimum/best gate configuration.... Technically, you can take the jedec file and the chip technical details (if you can dig em up) and figure out exactly what is going on. BUT, the better way is to re-engineer the chip based on what you figure it should be doing rather than trying to replicate exactly the original design... just my $0.02... Mitch On Mon, 25 May 1998, Omar Vega wrote: > Kev, > That's probably a JEDEC file used in programming many PLDs. They tend to be > device specific "fuse maps" so converting one into a generic logic gate > equivalent may be difficult. I've never bothered trying but I will double > check to make sure this is the case when I get to work tomorrow. Thanks. > > Omar > > Kev wrote: > > > I know this is a bit off topic but this is best way to reach the > > brightest minds of the collecting/gaming community..... > > > > I have a JED file on disk, can this be converted to a logic gate > > equivalent? > > > > The reason that I ask, this chip is used on a auxilary board plugged > > into a Pac-Man pcb to run a few different games and if I can dechiper > > what it is doing, possibly these games may be emultated and run on a Pac > > board as EPROMs only. > > > > Thanks, > > -- > > Kev Mowerman@erols.com >>REMOVE THE ? to REPLY > > > > Looking for Pac-Man related hacks & Video Game > > > > Coin Op Page -> http://www.erols.com/mowerman > > > > -- > omar@techsource.com > -- please use above address to reply, anti-spam in effect > > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Mon May 25 21:06:41 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 25 May 1998 21:06:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01BD8820.E19521A0.wnerini@drf.com> From: "William A. Nerini" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Omega Race Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:05:42 -0000 Organization: The Daily Racing Form X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "William A. Nerini" Hey All, Just A preliminary Message, This is my first post on the list. Well, I'm getting my first UR vector game. Omega Race. Problem is, The person who has it says he can't get it to power up. Anyone know what kind of power supply you can use for Omega Race, and where you can get one? From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 26 02:45:15 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 02:44:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <356A8E82.7BDBCC3A@erols.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 05:42:26 -0400 From: Kev X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: JEDEC File decoding References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kev Mitchell Rohde wrote: > Technically, you can take the jedec file and the chip technical details > (if you can dig em up) and figure out exactly what is going on. BUT, the > better way is to re-engineer the chip based on what you figure it should > be doing rather than trying to replicate exactly the original design... > Okay, I cann't read all of the print on the chip but it is a MMI PAL 10Hxxx where xxx appears to be B8N but I'm not sure. Thanks -- Kev Mowerman@erols.com >>REMOVE THE ? to REPLY Looking for Pac-Man related hacks & Video Game Coin Op Page -> http://www.erols.com/mowerman From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 26 07:29:19 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 07:28:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <356AD1F8.3795@an.hp.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:30:16 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: JEDEC File decoding References: <356A3018.97D6E43C@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Joel Rosenzweig Kev wrote: > > I know this is a bit off topic but this is best way to reach the > brightest minds of the collecting/gaming community..... > > I have a JED file on disk, can this be converted to a logic gate > equivalent? > > The reason that I ask, this chip is used on a auxilary board plugged > into a Pac-Man pcb to run a few different games and if I can dechiper > what it is doing, possibly these games may be emultated and run on a Pac > board as EPROMs only. > Should you choose to go the route of figuring out what the chip does, rather than trying to reverse engineer the JEDEC file, you'll find a logic analyzer an invaluable tool. The analyzer won't actually decode the logic for you, but it will let you perform state analysis on several dozen I/O pins simultaneously. It's basically like having a storage scope with lots of I/O that works on logic level signals only. Once you have the state information, then you'll be able to start the real decoding of what all the data means. Don't be fooled though. This is a terribly challenging task. Cliff Kotch went through similar procedures when he figured out how the ESB slapstick worked. Once he figured out the algorithm, he wrote his own program for accomplishing the same thing. So, it's not impossible, but it certainly isn't easy. (See, this was somehow vector related!) Good luck! Joel- From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 26 07:44:16 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 07:44:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Kgowland Message-ID: <8d313df2.356ad46e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:40:45 EDT To: vectorlist@spies.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Omega Race Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kgowland In a message dated 98-05-26 00:07:02 EDT, you write: > I'm getting my first UR vector game. Omega Race. Problem is, The > person who has it says he can't get it to power up. Anyone know what kind > of power supply you can use for Omega Race, and where you can get one? Most likely you have a board with acid damage. So a new power supply won't help. Kirby G From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 26 09:54:47 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 09:54:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Star Wars mathbox PROMs (and PROMs in general) Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:52:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Also, if this is the problem, it's probably a good > idea to replace them all. I was amazed at how much > colder the newer PROMs would run compared to the > original ones. Made me feel better ;) > Interesting point... Anyone know who's still making bipolar PROMs? The only ones I was really sure were in recent production was Signetics. The reason I ask is that the last batch of 82S137's I bought were not the 1992+ date codes I usually see-- they were 1986's (still Signetics brand). I'm wondering if these are starting to get harder to find and we're eating in to caches of older parts? -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 26 09:59:37 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 09:59:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: JEDEC File decoding Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:58:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill Hey Kev (and all), Sounds like you've got a 10x8 architecture PAL. Which board was this for? The 285 or the 284? If it's a 10H8 type device I might be able to reverse-compile it. I have a *really* old version of some NatSemi PAL software that includes a JEDEC-disassembler to a specific target. It only works up to 16x8 parts, but a 10x8 should be a pretty small matrix. Send me the file if you'd like me to try... (I assume there are more parts than just the PAL on the board...) I still need to wire up my Lattice 2032 protoboard-- I think I got the 284 functionality in that one part... -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 26 10:05:31 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 10:05:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01BD888D.AC7BE950.wnerini@drf.com> From: "William A. Nerini" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Omega Race Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:04:28 -0000 Organization: The Daily Racing Form X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "William A. Nerini" Hmm, Ominous. So does this entail buying a new board, and is their a sure-fire way to tell if this is in fact the problem? Thanks, Will -----Original Message----- From: Kgowland [SMTP:Kgowland@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 7:41 AM To: vectorlist@spies.com Cc: Kgowland Subject: Re: Omega Race In a message dated 98-05-26 00:07:02 EDT, you write: > I'm getting my first UR vector game. Omega Race. Problem is, The > person who has it says he can't get it to power up. Anyone know what kind > of power supply you can use for Omega Race, and where you can get one? Most likely you have a board with acid damage. So a new power supply won't help. Kirby G From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 26 10:12:33 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 10:12:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 26 May 1998 11:53 EDT To: vectorlist@spies.com Cc: mowerman@erols.com From: "Mark Shostak" Subject: re:JEDEC File decoding Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Mark Shostak" In message "JEDEC File decoding", Kev writes: > I have a JED file on disk, can this be converted to a logic gate > equivalent? Yes. Altera has a program on their BBS (I would hope it would be on the web by now) for doing just that. I haven't messed with it in a few years, but they probably still have it. Here's the deal; if they knew what you wanted, they probably wouldn't help you. They didn't write the program for your intended purpose. However, if you have an older design with a bunch of smaller programmable logic on it and want to do a recycle using *their* modern parts, their program will let you take a bunch of older JEDs and automatically build a map for a newer higher density part. Their system has a few different utilities for accomplishing this. One, the cool one, will take a fuse map in JED format and reverse it into equations (just in case you lost the source file). I would assume that other programmable logic companies have versions as well. One note. Run the utility off floppy, it has a few bugs and I've had it fill my entire file system. LMK how it turns out or if you have any other questions. Cheers, Mark > > Thanks, > -- > Kev Mowerman@erols.com >>REMOVE THE ? to REPLY > > Looking for Pac-Man related hacks & Video Game > > Coin Op Page -> http://www.erols.com/mowerman > > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 26 10:21:57 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 10:21:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: djeffery@multipath.com (Doug Jefferys) Message-Id: <199805261722.NAA12789@mpws15> Subject: Re: Star Wars mathbox PROMs (and PROMs in general) To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:22:30 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Clay Cowgill" at May 26, 98 09:52:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: djeffery@multipath.com (Doug Jefferys) Once upon a time, Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Interesting point... Anyone know who's still making bipolar PROMs? While we're at it, what's the deal with TI bipolars? Unlike EPROMs, bipolars need to be programmed with the right algorithm. Heck, some bipolars are "all 1s" and others are "all 0s" in their blank state. Which brings me to the TI problem - I've got an EE Tools Allmax. Great piece of hardware, burns most anything under the sun. The one thing it won't burn is a TI bipolar. This is rather annoying, seeing as how most of the local parts stores carry the TI parts, but not the NS or Signetics equivalents. What's really annoying - the Allmax *does* support the TI series of EPROMs and PALs. Only the bipolar PROMs are unsupported. Has anyone either: a) Found a non-TI part that uses the same programming algorithm as the TI part? b) Hacked the Allmax data files to figure out how to add support for different devices? And now for the "now THAT'S a programming algorithm!" department: The Allmax software is DOS-based, but runs fine in a DOS window. Once, however, I was burning a 27512 and nudged the mouse out of the window, losing window focus, and Windoze shoved the task into the background. I didn't notice until a few minutes later when it clued in to me that the "whistling" sound of the burner had been constant for a long time. Probably spent 3-4 minutes burning the same byte into the poor 27512. Somehow the chip survived, apparently none the worse for wear. The mind boggles... Later, Doug. -- Douglas W. Jefferys | Star Data Systems | Email: djeffery@multipath.com | From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 26 10:51:17 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 10:51:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: JEDEC File decoding Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:49:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill "EAU018.EXE" on Altera's FTP site. Unfortunately it doesn't support anything smaller than a 16L8 type architecture... (It's a self-extracting archive-- pld2eqn.exe) -Clay > Altera has a program on their BBS (I would hope it would be on the > web by now) for doing just that. I haven't messed with it in a few > years, but they probably still have it. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 26 12:19:30 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 12:19:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 15:18:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199805261918.PAA21028@westnet.com> From: "Christopher X. Candreva" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: (fwd) Value of a ded Major Havoc cab? Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Christopher X. Candreva" Don't know how many people would have seen this. Sigh -- make that 499 . . . -- forwarded message -- From: v-dog@webtv.net (Gary Vitagliano) Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace Subject: Value of a ded Major Havoc cab? Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 12:03:12 -0400 I might be able to get my hands on a dedicated Major Havoc cab.What is it worth?The sad thing is that it has been converted to a "breakout" type game! -- end of forwarded message -- -- ========================================================== Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 WestNet Internet Services of Westchester http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 26 17:41:21 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 17:40:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 19:39:44 -0500 (CDT) From: X-Sender: jwelser@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Sega Speech Board Crystals Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Hey All, Does anybody know of a source for or have any extra 3.12 MHz crystals (like those used in G-80 Speech Boards?) I found a 3.159xxx crystal, but it's in a bigger package, and all I got was static when I put it in my speech board. I also tried a 3.00 MHz crystal (in a smaller package) and the speech board stopped producing sound entirely. Any help would be appreciated... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------ Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 26 19:00:04 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 18:59:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <356ACAB7.7909@istar.ca> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 06:59:19 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Sega Speech Board Crystals References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote: > > Hey All, > > Does anybody know of a source for or have any extra 3.12 > MHz crystals (like those used in G-80 Speech Boards?) > > I found a 3.159xxx crystal, but it's in a bigger package, > and all I got was static when I put it in my speech board. I also > tried a 3.00 MHz crystal (in a smaller package) and the speech board > stopped producing sound entirely. > > Any help would be appreciated... > > Joe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu > Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation > Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin > Work: jwelser@crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com > P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ Hi Joe! It doesn't make sense that the speach board would not work with the wrong crystal. I could understand slow speech or distortion, but I thought it was "independent" of the game MPU after it received an instruction to say something. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Tue May 26 23:27:50 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 26 May 1998 23:27:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Kgowland Message-ID: <744b245.356bb1fa@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 02:26:01 EDT To: vectorlist@spies.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Omega Race Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Kgowland In a message dated 98-05-26 13:04:37 EDT, you write: > Hmm, Ominous. So does this entail buying a new board, and is their a sure- > fire way to tell if this is in fact the problem? Look for blue/green streaks on the boards near the battery holder. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 27 06:07:40 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 27 May 1998 06:07:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) To: vectorlist@spies.com Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 05:38:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Omega Race Message-ID: <19980527.080300.8686.1.gonzothegreat@juno.com> References: <744b245.356bb1fa@aol.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,11-12,14-15,20-22 From: gonzothegreat@juno.com (Alan J McCormick) Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: gonzothegreat@juno.com (Alan J McCormick) On Wed, 27 May 1998 02:26:01 EDT Kgowland writes: >In a message dated 98-05-26 13:04:37 EDT, you write: > >> Hmm, Ominous. So does this entail buying a new board, and is their a >sure- >> fire way to tell if this is in fact the problem? > >Look for blue/green streaks on the boards near the battery holder. Other important signs to look for are discolored solder joints around component leads, mold-like growths and lastly a NiCd that looks like a wooly-bear caterpillar :( When the leads get contaminated by NiCd decay, things get ugly as cleaning the board and redoing the solder connections is a royal pain... Does the machine coin up? The b/w vector monitor often failed due to (wait for it...) bad solder joints. Same story. Touch up all the joints and make sure the HV is getting to the anode. That #$^#@ HV diode and connector has caused many problems. The connector sometimes disintegrates into a pile of dust requiring Schieve's RTV hack. Virtu-Al _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 27 08:57:59 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 27 May 1998 08:57:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199805271556.LAA23827@camel7.mindspring.com> From: "The Retrodaddy" To: Subject: Re: (fwd) Value of a ded Major Havoc cab? Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 11:54:27 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "The Retrodaddy" I saw that machine several owners ago. Went for less than $300 and would be an easy convert back to MH. Everything was there, and the stickers for ark were easily removed. ---------- > From: Christopher X. Candreva > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: Christopher X. Candreva > Subject: (fwd) Value of a ded Major Havoc cab? > Date: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 3:18 PM > > Don't know how many people would have seen this. > Sigh -- make that 499 . . . > > -- forwarded message -- > From: v-dog@webtv.net (Gary Vitagliano) > Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade.marketplace > Subject: Value of a ded Major Havoc cab? > Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 12:03:12 -0400 > > I might be able to get my hands on a dedicated Major Havoc cab.What is > it worth?The sad thing is that it has been converted to a "breakout" > type game! > -- end of forwarded message -- > > -- > ========================================================== > Chris Candreva -- chris@westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816 > WestNet Internet Services of Westchester > http://www.westnet.com/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 27 09:58:36 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 27 May 1998 09:57:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Sega Speech Board Crystals Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 09:56:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > Does anybody know of a source for or have any extra 3.12 > MHz crystals (like those used in G-80 Speech Boards?) > > I found a 3.159xxx crystal, but it's in a bigger package, > and all I got was static when I put it in my speech board. I also > tried a 3.00 MHz crystal (in a smaller package) and the speech board > stopped producing sound entirely. > Weird. You'd think the slower crystal would do *something*... Maybe you can take a 25MHz oscillator (easy to find) and divide down to 3.125MHz? While we're at it... Anyone have any 49.152MHz oscillators to spare? -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 27 12:11:02 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 27 May 1998 12:10:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <356C659B.555B@erinet.com> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 15:12:27 -0400 From: James Marous Organization: Very Little, If Any X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: (fwd) Value of a ded Major Havoc cab? References: <199805271556.LAA23827@camel7.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: James Marous The Retrodaddy wrote: > > I saw that machine several owners ago. Went for less than $300 and would > be an easy convert back to MH. Everything was there, and the stickers for > ark were easily removed. I just paid a hundred for a converted HM a couple weeks ago. It was still on location and making money as an Arkanoid. Looks really nice next to my Quantum converted to an Arkanoid :) Just kills me to see two "rare" (not trying to start another thread here) vector games both as Arkanoids. Pictures of both are up at my site. James -- My Homepage! Http://www.erinet.com/jamesm/ mailto:jamesm@erinet.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 27 12:41:13 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 27 May 1998 12:41:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <02db01bd89a7$2b87b660$10421ed1@flash.net> From: "Callan Hendricks" To: Subject: Re: HP5004 Manual is up. Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 14:39:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Callan Hendricks" Heya Zonn, Did you get the scans that I sent you saturday morning? Callan. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Wed May 27 16:42:35 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 27 May 1998 16:42:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Anyone need a DSP kit? Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 16:40:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill I guess this is vector-related since we've talked about using this DSP as a potential Digital Vector Generator... I have an extra Analog Devices EZ-Kit Lite Development Kit for Analog Devices ADSP-21xx devices. (I bought one from Newark, and then got a free one from a friend...) It is a stand-alone or PC based development board, software, manuals, etc. Everything you need to play with DSP stuff. For vector tinkering the on-board serial CODEC is stereo and should will work as an x/y driver for an o'scope (within bandwidth limits). You'd probably want parallel DACs for speed later on, but those are easily added on the expansion header. Anyway, you can read more about it at Analog Devices webpage or Newark if you're interested. They're ~$100 from Newark with shipping, I'd like to get $75 for this one (it's the new-in-box one)... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager ------------------------------------------------- /\ Diamond Multimedia System, Inc. \/ Communications Division From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 28 09:24:32 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 09:24:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: Rockola contact Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:22:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day folks, I had quite a surprise in my mailbox this morning. Besides getting a response from the "powers that be" about the whole RGVAM fiasco, a previous Rockola employee saw my recent article about Demon, Rocket Racer and QB-3. I haven't yet discussed whether he's willing to talk with more people (or the whole vectorlist), but if you have interest/questions let me know. If Chris Hanks (who found the original reference to QB-3 in an old issue of "Electronic Fun with Computers and Games" from Feb. 1983 ) is reading this, please contact me privately. Steven S Ozdemir sso@plpt.com (my company's new named) sso@dsc.com (good for a few more months) ozdemir@xenon.stanford.edu (permanent...weekly) ps - As usual, I write up everything (probably in the Cinematronics history document since these Rockola games are on that platform) so people don't need to ask for a summary if they only have a passing interest. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 28 10:01:47 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 10:01:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 28 May 1998 12:58 EDT To: vectorlist@spies.com From: "Mark Shostak" Subject: re:Rockola contact Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Mark Shostak" In message "Rockola contact", "Ozdemir, Steve" writes: > a previous Rockola employee saw my recent article about Demon, Rocket > Racer and QB-3. > ...but if you have interest/questions let me know. One question: Can he get the ROMs? From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 28 10:30:10 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 10:29:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Rockola contact Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 10:28:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Ozdemir, Steve" G'day Mark (and all), Initial information (and I'm awaiting his reply so I can stop relaying stuff and let people hear it for themselves) indicate that only Demon was made on the original Cinematronics platform. Rocket Racer and QB-3 used heavily modified (and I'm talking about ALOT more than the silly wire mods that all Cinematronics/Vectorbeam games have). So ROMs aren't as useful as you might think...what we really need is original hardware that the ROM data runs on! Of course, I'm still going to try to get copies of whatever game code, no matter what it runs on... Steven S Ozdemir sso@plpt.com (my company's new named) sso@dsc.com (good for a few more months) ozdemir@xenon.stanford.edu (permanent...weekly) ps - By the way, from what I've read Rocket Racer might have just used the Cinematronics platform as just the digital side of the AVG. Kinda ironic to think that Cinematronics already pushes the analog side of the AVG onto the monitor, and Rockola's Rocket Racer uses the rest of the Cinematronics hardware as the rest of the AVG. Obviously, there's an additional Rockola board where the "real" game code runs generating all the high-level information used for drawing vectors. > ---------- > From: Mark Shostak[SMTP:shostak@nortel.ca] > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 1998 9:58 AM > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: Mark Shostak > Subject: re:Rockola contact > > In message "Rockola contact", "Ozdemir, Steve" > writes: > > > a previous Rockola employee saw my recent article about Demon, > Rocket > > Racer and QB-3. > > > ...but if you have interest/questions let me know. > > One question: Can he get the ROMs? > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Thu May 28 20:32:19 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 28 May 1998 20:31:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <356E2DB6.BDA7F70E@voicenet.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:38:31 -0400 From: Al Warner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Cleaning boards Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Al Warner With all of the insanity occurring on the newsgroups right now, I figured I could ask a simple question on this list and get a decent answer. I'm going to rebuild a monitor and the board is incredibly dirty. Is there a good way of cleaning them. I have removed the board from the monitor. Thanks, -Al- -- ==================================================================== -= Al Warner awarner@voicenet.com =- -= Owner of "Magic Sword", "AmeriDarts", "Stargate", "Toobin'", =- -= "Frogger", and the most classic "Battlezone" arcade video games. =- -= See the Magic Sword Project at: =- -= http://www.voicenet.com/~awarner/magswrd =- -= -New pages coming soon!- =- ==================================================================== From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 29 05:37:28 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 05:37:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:35:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Mitchell Rohde To: vectorlist@spies.com cc: Al Warner Subject: Re: Cleaning boards In-Reply-To: <356E2DB6.BDA7F70E@voicenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Mitchell Rohde I've used an air compressor pretty effectively. Be warned: try all air compressor or other thigns BEFORE you hose downt he board with anything like WD-40 or a tuner cleaner... otherwise, the dirt is just a sticky mess that you can't blow off.... mitch On Thu, 28 May 1998, Al Warner wrote: > With all of the insanity occurring on the newsgroups right now, I > figured I could ask a simple question on this list and get a decent > answer. > > I'm going to rebuild a monitor and the board is incredibly dirty. Is > there a good way of cleaning them. I have removed the board from the > monitor. > > Thanks, > > -Al- > > -- > > ==================================================================== > -= Al Warner awarner@voicenet.com =- > -= Owner of "Magic Sword", "AmeriDarts", "Stargate", "Toobin'", =- > -= "Frogger", and the most classic "Battlezone" arcade video games. =- > -= See the Magic Sword Project at: =- > -= http://www.voicenet.com/~awarner/magswrd =- > -= -New pages coming soon!- =- > ==================================================================== > > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 29 06:28:23 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 06:28:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <356EB831.12EF@an.hp.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:29:21 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Cleaning boards References: <356E2DB6.BDA7F70E@voicenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Joel Rosenzweig Al Warner wrote: > > With all of the insanity occurring on the newsgroups right now, I > figured I could ask a simple question on this list and get a decent > answer. > > I'm going to rebuild a monitor and the board is incredibly dirty. Is > there a good way of cleaning them. I have removed the board from the > monitor. > > Thanks, > > -Al- Al, I've used nothing exotic and get great results with soap and warm water. I've also used spray on 409 for really grungy stuff that the force of the water didn't take off on its own. Sometimes, I've resorted to using a toothbrush to help brush the grime away. I've cleaned all my Wells Gardners and Ampliflames with this technique, and have been very happy with the results. Of course, drain off the water, and let them air dry before even thinking about turning them on again. I let them sit overnight. Good luck! Joel- From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 29 06:54:08 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 06:53:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <9805291404.AA28733@Techsource.COM> From: "omar" To: Subject: Re: Cleaning boards Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:55:11 -0400 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "omar" Here's a copy of what I posted to RGVAC once: Here at work we let boards soak in alcohol for a while followed by manual scrubbing with detergent and water. This helps to remove excess flux. After that we rinse the board under running water and dry it quickly with an air gun/compressor. The board is tilted during this last part and air is rigorously applied close hand in order to remove water trapped under ICs and between pins. That usually gets rid of the water however they are left in front of a fan for a period of time just to make sure that they are completely dry. ---------- > From: Al Warner > To: vectorlist@spies.com > Cc: Al Warner > Subject: Cleaning boards > Date: Thursday, May 28, 1998 11:38 PM > > With all of the insanity occurring on the newsgroups right now, I > figured I could ask a simple question on this list and get a decent > answer. > > I'm going to rebuild a monitor and the board is incredibly dirty. Is > there a good way of cleaning them. I have removed the board from the > monitor. > > Thanks, > > -Al- > > -- > > ==================================================================== > -= Al Warner awarner@voicenet.com =- > -= Owner of "Magic Sword", "AmeriDarts", "Stargate", "Toobin'", =- > -= "Frogger", and the most classic "Battlezone" arcade video games. =- > -= See the Magic Sword Project at: =- > -= http://www.voicenet.com/~awarner/magswrd =- > -= -New pages coming soon!- =- > ==================================================================== > > From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 29 07:28:50 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 07:28:40 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199805291427.HAA20291@kingdom.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:28:19 -0600 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: Re: Cleaning boards In-Reply-To: <356EB831.12EF@an.hp.com> References: <356E2DB6.BDA7F70E@voicenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Anders Knudsen At 09:29 AM 5/29/98 -0400, Joel wrote: >I've used nothing exotic and get great results with soap and warm >water. I've also used spray on 409 for really grungy stuff that the >force of the water didn't take off on its own. Sometimes, I've resorted >to using a toothbrush to help brush the grime away. > >I've cleaned all my Wells Gardners and Ampliflames with this technique, >and have been very happy with the results. > >Of course, drain off the water, and let them air dry before even >thinking about turning them on again. I let them sit overnight. > I have used the same sort of method that Joel describes. I spray (soak) the board with 409 -- that loosens up all the dirt. They I take the board outside and hose it down with water. All the dirt and 409 rinses off! Then I let it dry overnight or maybe a couple of days. It works great. I have done this with all my XY monitors -- including the tube! Makes them look brand new. -Anders. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 29 09:29:40 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 09:29:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Cleaning boards Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:29:06 GMT Message-ID: <3572e1b8.238677758@tommy.doctord.com> References: <356E2DB6.BDA7F70E@voicenet.com> <199805291427.HAA20291@kingdom.adaptec.com> In-Reply-To: <199805291427.HAA20291@kingdom.adaptec.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: zonn@zonn.com (Zonn) On Fri, 29 May 1998 08:28:19 -0600, Anders Knudsen wrote: >At 09:29 AM 5/29/98 -0400, Joel wrote: >>I've used nothing exotic and get great results with soap and warm >>water. I've also used spray on 409 for really grungy stuff that the >>force of the water didn't take off on its own. Sometimes, I've = resorted >>to using a toothbrush to help brush the grime away. =20 >> >>I've cleaned all my Wells Gardners and Ampliflames with this technique, >>and have been very happy with the results. >> >>Of course, drain off the water, and let them air dry before even >>thinking about turning them on again. I let them sit overnight. >> > >I have used the same sort of method that Joel describes. I spray (soak) = the >board with 409 -- that loosens up all the dirt. They I take the board >outside and hose it down with water. All the dirt and 409 rinses off! >Then I let it dry overnight or maybe a couple of days. It works great. I >have done this with all my XY monitors -- including the tube! Makes them >look brand new. I agree with all the above, all the components are hermetically seal and = soap and water is not going to hurt them. I do remove the brightness control from Cinematronics monitor boards = before I hose them down, and it might be a good idea to either remove (or at least= place a piece of tape over) the trim pots the might be on a board. -Zonn <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ------ ___ Member of A.A.C.S.: |---- | ( ) Association for Artistically / / ( () ) Challenged Signatures / / //\\ // (__) / ---/ // \\ //\\ // zonn @ zonn . com -------| // \\/ From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 29 10:46:06 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 10:45:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: Clay Cowgill To: "'vectorlist@spies.com'" Subject: RE: Cleaning boards Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:44:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Clay Cowgill > I agree with all the above, all the components are hermetically seal > and soap > and water is not going to hurt them. > > I do remove the brightness control from Cinematronics monitor boards > before I > hose them down, and it might be a good idea to either remove (or at > least place > a piece of tape over) the trim pots the might be on a board. > I too use 409 to clean monitor chassis (think I learned it from Joel), but I take a cheap 2" paintbrush and kinda "dust" (not really scrub) the board with the 409 on it. Cleans stuff up nicely. A garden hose and a couple hot days of drying seem to do the rest. The cheap metal pots on monitor chassis hold up well to water-washing, but before you do this to something like a game PCB you'd be well advised to follow Zonn's idea to put some tape over them. Water in a trimpot can take forever to dry out. I also use our electric oven to dry boards out-- set it to 170F (as low as ours goes), pre-heat it, and just put the boards in and turn the oven off. Leave 'em in for about 30-45 minutes. Nice-n-dry. If you're going to use an ultrasonic cleaner be careful to not do crystals, relays, transformers, or trimpots (among others). (The crystals can be damaged by ultrasonics, the relays can "weld" together from the vibration, and water penetration in transformers and pots can be sever with the sonics on...) -Clay From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 29 16:03:37 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 16:03:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01BD8B1B.2E9E0E10.wnerini@drf.com> From: "William A. Nerini" To: "Vectorlist (E-mail)" Subject: Omega Race: Not Just a Hobby. A Carreer. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:02:28 -0000 Organization: The Daily Racing Form X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "William A. Nerini" Well, this is definitely a dead machine. Since this is my first Project Box(machine), I'll put the call out for all the help folks want to offer. I'll have pics of the machine and it's parts on my website tonight or tomorrow.(5/30/98). Here's My First Impressions. Plug it in, Turn it on... Nothing, Nada, Zip. The power supply makes no noise, nothing lights or heats up. There is a Fuse missing on the Linear Power Supply board, but I would think that the power supply itself would at least react. While The Ni-Cad Battery is Getting Corroded, It hasn't dripped on any of the motherboard parts. The Motherboard has several (suspiciously PROM sized) sockets empty. The MB is also a _TINY_ bit warped. otherwise all the PC boards look good. The Monitor. Well, the "Black-Light" test of it unpowered shows a ton of screen burn, so I'll probably have to replace that. There's also on connector coming from the monitor that isn't connected to anything. Basically, I'm familiar with PC boards and such, but have never worked with monitors, so I'm not sire if the damn thing is even complete. I'll post pictures, and maybe I can get some advice. The rest of the machine(cabinet, controls, marquee etc.) is in great shape. I've got a nice array of tools,a multi-meter, etc. What _am_ I asking for. A lot of advice, and suggestions. I'll need some advice on what(everything?) to replace re-pair.and some questions right up front: Are Randy Fromm's tapes etc good? Can they provide good information related to Omega Race? Are the Omega Race power supplies somehow really unique, or can a standard power supply be adapted? If I need to replace the monitor, can one be obtained at a resonable price? Where can one be obtained? Thanks in advance for any and all help you can provide. I've been wanting to get into re-habilitating machines for a couple of years. This is like a big adventure to me. Thanks, Will PS. Yes, I'm trying to get a manual, and have the schematics. From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Fri May 29 17:14:14 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 29 May 1998 17:14:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <356F4F68.8CEA6BD2@hiwaay.net> Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:14:32 -0500 From: Dave Turner Organization: USI X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Omega Race: Not Just a Hobby. A Carreer. References: <01BD8B1B.2E9E0E10.wnerini@drf.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Dave Turner I decided to buy the tapes from Randy Fromm. I got the first three (thought I would start at the beginning). Since I am quite the novice, I got "Using a digital multimeter", "Beginning Electronics for Operators" and "Basic Video Game Troubleshooting". As for a review of the tapes, I was not very impressed. In fact, except for just a few tips, I consider them a waste of my money. If the tapes were $9.99 or something, they would be great. The multimeter tape was good. Just what it said, but too much money for the information provided. The Electronics tape was a disappointment. All that time and he goes over and over and over and over the SAME (sometimes useless) point. This tape could have been 20 minutes. And after watching it all, I didn't come away with anything more than what I could read in the first chapter of an intro to electronics. The troubleshooting had a few points in it of use, including adjusting power supplies and a simple IC test. But again, not worth the money. The information conveyed could have been done in 15 minutes or less. Don't get me wrong, even after the tape disappointment, I really respect Randy. You can tell that he really knows what he is doing and is probably a great game tech. He is also a very nice guy from what I have seen. But unless the later tapes are MUCH MUCH better, I think it's a waste of money. I won't be ordering any more tapes but I still might spring for his book, but not very soon. Bottom Line: The first three tapes are NOT recommended. Oh, by the way, does anyone want to buy some Arcade School tapes cheap? William A. Nerini wrote: > -snip- > Are Randy Fromm's tapes etc good? Can they provide good information related > to Omega Race? > -snip- -- My favorite Internet Lottery. I actually won! Check it out! http://www.pluslotto.com/default.asp?urlref=3300007572503 From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sat May 30 11:29:32 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 30 May 1998 11:27:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 12:28:10 -0600 From: Jess Askey Subject: Texas Vectorlisters???? To: vectorlist@spies.com Message-id: <35704FBA.2833@links.magenta.com> Organization: The Audio Analyst/The Game Spot MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Jess Askey Hi everyone, Im going to be down in Arlington Texas all next week for training. Are any of you around that area?? If so drop me an email, I will be bored out of my mind in that hotel every evening!! :-) mailto:jess@magenta.com see ya!! jess -- Jess M. Askey ********* The Game Archive *********** GameArchive/Audio Analyst * Pinball, Video, Parts, Collecting * 509 S. 2nd Street Unit B * http://www.gamearchive.com * Laramie WY 82070 ************************************** From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sat May 30 21:03:29 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 30 May 1998 21:01:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 22:02:59 -0500 To: vectorlist@spies.com From: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) Subject: Re: Texas Vectorlisters???? Cc: Jess Askey Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: Woodcock@123net.net (Gregg Woodcock) At 12:28 5/30/98, Jess Askey wrote: >Hi everyone, > Im going to be down in Arlington Texas all next week for training. >Are any of you around that area?? If so drop me an email, I will be >bored out of my mind in that hotel every evening!! :-) I'll be out of town until THursday but if you wanna come by my place and check out some classic home/arcade stuff let me know! I am in Garland which is about 45 minutes from alrington. Also if you want to play NBA Jams: TE, Space Lords, Neo-Geo (Puzzle Bobble, Aero-Fighters 3, Magician Lord, Samurai Showdown 4, King of Fighters 95, Metal Slug, and a couple more), Open Ice Hockey, Gaplus, Namco Classics V1 (Galaga/Mappy/Xevious), Street Fighter Alpha, or Pinball Magic (MINT condition but the kickback just went out), then go to my gameroom at Parker Chairopractic College which is in Arlington and open to 8PM. It is right near the Dave and Busters which is probably open even later (they are about 200 yards apart). From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun May 31 03:23:31 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 03:21:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Message-ID: Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 06:20:14 EDT To: vectorlist@spies.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Tech: I can't get proper focus on Tempest Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: The monitor has been completely rebuilt and capped. It works fine except I can't get the focus to stay right. I have tested the HV board and deflection pcb in another unit and they work perfectly. All power transistors are good. When I rotate the focus knob, the picture will gain focus momentarily. The screen still looks good with excellent color and brightness. I am frustrated since I have put a good deal of time into getting this machine working. HELP! Kirby G From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun May 31 11:07:32 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 11:05:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <19980531180414.25035.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [205.161.224.219] From: "Clay 77" To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Tech: I can't get proper focus on Tempest Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 11:04:13 PDT Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: "Clay 77" >The monitor has been completely rebuilt and capped. It works fine except I >can't get the focus to stay right. I have tested the HV board and deflection >pcb in another unit and they work perfectly. All power transistors are good. ****When I rotate the focus knob, the picture will gain focus momentarily.**** Kirby, This exact thing happened to me with my MH conversion...frustrating as hell. John Lee and I went and changed everything on the chassis and nothing helped. We then swaped in a different tube and viola! Apparently, there is a screen on the inside of the tube where the image is focused on, and on my tube this screen was loose and/or damaged. I don't recall all the technical details but suffice it to say that the tube was the problem. Good luck. -Clay Smith ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-vectorlist@spies.com Sun May 31 12:57:10 1998 Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 12:54:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <35710CE2.5872@istar.ca> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 00:55:14 -0700 From: John Robertson Organization: John's Jukes Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Re: Tech: I can't get proper focus on Tempest References: <19980531180414.25035.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@spies.com CC: John Robertson Clay 77 wrote: > > >The monitor has been completely rebuilt and capped. It works fine > except I > >can't get the focus to stay right. I have tested the HV board and > deflection > >pcb in another unit and they work perfectly. All power transistors are > good. > > ****When I rotate the focus knob, the picture will gain focus > momentarily.**** > > Kirby, > This exact thing happened to me with my MH conversion...frustrating as > hell. John Lee and I went and changed everything on the chassis and > nothing helped. We then swaped in a different tube and viola! > Apparently, there is a screen on the inside of the tube where the image > is focused on, and on my tube this screen was loose and/or damaged. I > don't recall all the technical details but suffice it to say that the > tube was the problem. Good luck. > > -Clay Smith > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Hi, all! It could also be a bad focus resistor. If you have a high voltage probe, read the focus lead and see if it is stable...otherwise it is the tube. Check connections for the monitor ground, the focus/screen control ground, and any resistors on that return path for the focus control. John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) mailto:jrr@flippers.com, web page http://www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."