From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 1 00:09:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 00:09:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 00:23:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Dangerwil@aol.com Message-ID: <970501002139_369118438@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: sound boards Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com All, I have been following your progress on the Sega multi game board and I am very impressed. I don't even have the time to think about a project like this and you sound almost done. I believe you had a little extra room; How about a vector version of Astro Blaster? Might be a little tought to recode, but would probably look good in vector color. Good luck, keep up the great work! Peace Bill From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 1 11:05:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 11:04:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 11:04:47 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: zektor.uue Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com The file that went out this morning appears to be a tar format archive. I've unpacked it, converted it to .zip, and put it on ftp.tant.com in /incoming. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 1 15:46:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 15:46:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 15:46:25 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: eliminator sound board registers Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I had forgotten that Rick made a copy of the 4 player Eliminator manual for me last year, so I went back and added the register definitions for Eliminator's sound board to the Sega hardware description at www.spies.com/arcade/simulation/gameHardware/SegaVectorHardware rather than send out the whole document again, here is the register description Eliminator Sound Board ---------------------- inputs 3c-3f d0 speech ready outputs 3e (076) d7 torpedo 2 d6 torpedo 1 d5 bounce d4 explosion 3 d3 explosion 2 d2 explosion 1 d1 fireball d0 not used d7 torpedo 2 d6 torpedo 1 d5 bounce d4 explosion 3 d3 explosion 2 d2 explosion 1 d1 fireball d0 - 3f (077) d7 background msb d6 background lsb d5 enemy ship d4 skitter d3 thrust msb d2 thrust lsb d1 thrust hi d0 thrust lo From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 1 17:18:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 17:18:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 17:20:13 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Universal Sound Board? Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Zonn writes: >You know I didn't want to say anything, because people seem to have their >heart on the single DSP approach, but now that you've mention PIC... > >I was thinking a neat approach would be to use a PIC processor for every >analog sound or two. The 16x6x series has a built in PCM output that with a >capacitor used for filtering, you can get up to 10 bits of resolution. That >would be 4 8bit sound samples (emulations?) with no loss. 8 bit samples >should be able to match the signal to noise ratio of the original sound >cards. They didn't use a lot of dynamic range, and those amplifiers were >not "low noise". I kicked this around a couple times too, but it came down to the fact that the PICs are great as long as you're doing stuff that will fit in the internal ROM. However, as soon as you get in a situation where you want to get at more memory all your nice PIC I/O gets sucked up trying to be an address and data bus. :-( As long as the waveforms are pretty simple (well, anything that could be a *small* table or some easy algorithmically generated thing like a square wave or pulse or triangle or something) the PIC could handle it OK, but the PICs lack any real worthwhile addressing modes for table lookups, and the internal memory is a little skimpy for any sort of real "samples". However, I bet some pretty convincing approximations of the sounds could be made. Do any of you have some .WAV or .AIFF sound files of what the Eliminator and Space Fury sounds are like? One thing the PIC does have on it's side is a a BUNCH of cycles per second. So a summation of four synthesized 8 bit voices would probably be doable. The state machine might get a little screwy to write in the PIC architecture though. Hmmmm. We could also do this-- digitize all the sound effects we want. Put all of them into a big EPROM and run the outputs of the EPROM to a simple little R2R output ladder. (A cheapo D/A). Then, send the output of the D/A to a mux than can be switched to N (8?) sample/hold caps. Have the PIC watch the sound "trigger" registers for what needs to be played. The PIC then runs the address lines of the EPROM, and the selector lines of the analog mux and uses the internal RAM to keep track of what sample is being played and the current "address pointer" for each sample. >I'd ask you (Clay) to be my running mate, but I'm sure we'd get in a fight >over some nit picky thing and end up splitting the PIC party...and those >damned "Intel Segment Heads" would win again! ;^) *heh* Yeah, that sounds about right. :-) >Well uh, I'd hate to state the obvious, but if your talking those old shift >register based noise generators, then this sounds like another job for the >PIC! (Fanfare please!) Hmmm. I was thinking of those little 3 wire guys that Radio Shack used to sell. I think they were genuine white noise sources. (I don't know if the XOR method would really give you "white" or not, I'd suspect it would be pink noise of some variation...) It looks like the universal sound boards have 'em on them... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 1 18:34:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 18:34:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 1 May 97 18:33 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970501182303.227fa044@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: Universal Sound Board? Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 05:20 PM 5/1/97 -0800, you wrote: >Zonn writes: >>I was thinking a neat approach would be to use a PIC processor for every >>analog sound or two. The 16x6x series has a built in PCM output that with a >>capacitor used for filtering, you can get up to 10 bits of resolution. That >>would be 4 8bit sound samples (emulations?) with no loss. 8 bit samples >>should be able to match the signal to noise ratio of the original sound >>cards. They didn't use a lot of dynamic range, and those amplifiers were >>not "low noise". > >I kicked this around a couple times too, but it came down to the fact that >the PICs are great as long as you're doing stuff that will fit in the >internal ROM. However, as soon as you get in a situation where you want to >get at more memory all your nice PIC I/O gets sucked up trying to be an >address and data bus. :-( > >As long as the waveforms are pretty simple (well, anything that could be a >*small* table or some easy algorithmically generated thing like a square >wave or pulse or triangle or something) the PIC could handle it OK, but the >PICs lack any real worthwhile addressing modes for table lookups, and the >internal memory is a little skimpy for any sort of real "samples". > >However, I bet some pretty convincing approximations of the sounds could be >made. Do any of you have some .WAV or .AIFF sound files of what the >Eliminator and Space Fury sounds are like? > >One thing the PIC does have on it's side is a a BUNCH of cycles per second. >So a summation of four synthesized 8 bit voices would probably be doable. >The state machine might get a little screwy to write in the PIC >architecture though. Hmmmm. When trying to come up with ideas for a Cinematronics Universal Sound card I ran into the same problem. There's really no room to place samples in the memory of a PIC, and even if you could the Harvard architecture makes it difficult to access them... > >We could also do this-- digitize all the sound effects we want. Put all of >them into a big EPROM and run the outputs of the EPROM to a simple little >R2R output ladder. (A cheapo D/A). Then, send the output of the D/A to a >mux than can be switched to N (8?) sample/hold caps. Have the PIC watch >the sound "trigger" registers for what needs to be played. The PIC then >runs the address lines of the EPROM, and the selector lines of the analog >mux and uses the internal RAM to keep track of what sample is being played >and the current "address pointer" for each sample. But I hated to give up the "cheapness" of the PWM output of the PIC in exchange for an external D/A and all the muxing involved, so I thought another possibility would still be to use the PIC as the output device, controlled by a master CPU. The PIC could either look at a parallel port, and when I receives the data adjust it's PWM counter's accordingly. Or it could use one of those dedicated serial ports (data/clock) which can be run *really* fast, as it's input. Since the PIC doesn't have to convert serial to parallel in software, this can be just as fast. Either method would allow the PICs to be nothing but dedicated D/A's with the possibility of 4 channels per PIC and very little external hardware. I also tossed around another idea that allowed the PIC to remain fully in control of the sounds... If you use one of the 33 I/O (40 pin) PICs, you can dedicate 8 lines to inputs, and the rest (minus the PWM, and sound trigger lines) to outputs. You can then connect the PICs outputs to the address lines of an external EPROM, and the PICs inputs to the EPROMs data lines. This allows for a *very* tight PIC loop, you set the outputs to the EPROM address, read the EPROMs data, adjust the PWM timer, lather, rinse, repeat. This can be done faster than if the data were actually in the PIC's ROM area! A slightly more complicated loop would allow jumping between four different waves in the EPROM before adjusting the PWM register, still allowing for 4 voices per PIC. Enough time might be left over to allow for volume enveloping, though you'd probably have to give up a channel or two, but who knows when it comes to just moving some data around those PICs are FAST! A variation of this idea would be to have four loadable counters as the address pointers, with the PIC controlling the enable lines of the tri-statable counters. This way one write of the PIC could select between the four addresses of the four voices, which could then be incremented simultaneously. You could also use a smaller PIC. Each of the counters could also go to different EPROMS, in which case all the EPROM's data lines would be run in parallel and the EPROMs enable lines would be used as the data selection lines. I still might try this when I have some *spare* time (like that's ever going to happen!) >I was thinking of those little 3 wire guys that Radio Shack used to >sell. I think they were genuine white noise sources. (I don't know if the >XOR method would really give you "white" or not, I'd suspect it would be >pink noise of some variation...) It looks like the universal sound boards >have 'em on them... The ones that I bought a couple of, at Radio Shack, a while back were based on the shift register approach, they included a schematic of their guts. But that doesn't mean a thing, since most of what Radio Shack sells, they found in someone else's garbage, there is no telling what has been on the shelves of the "Shack" through the years. And it seems like I remember some noise IC based on a leaky (zener) diode. The shift registers are definitely lacking in low end noise. Just compare the rumbling explosions used in Space War where a leaky transistor was used as the noise source and the hollow tinny explosions of Star Castle, where the shift register approach was used. The Space War is much nicer. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 1 19:01:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 19:01:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 19:01:11 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: PICs Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I'm surprised that Eric Smith hasn't jumped into this yet (hey Eric, are you there??) I wonder if the person from Crystal that was going to do a universal Cine board has gotten any farther. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 1 19:03:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 19:03:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 19:02:59 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: 68HC11's Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com If you'd consider an hc11 instead, I picked up a bunch of boards with the 44 pin variety of this microcontroller. And it has EErom in it to save high scores! From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 1 21:41:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 1 May 1997 21:41:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <33696FEE.1855@links.magenta.com> Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 22:39:10 -0600 From: Jess Askey X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: 68HC11's References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Al Kossow wrote: > > If you'd consider an hc11 instead, I picked up a bunch of boards with > the 44 pin variety of this microcontroller. And it has EErom in it to > save high scores! I agree, I looked at the HC11 a few years ago for a project that I was doing. It has alot of features (like a serial port!!! Good for real time testing of new game code!! I wish I could do that for Major Havoc!) -- Jess Askey Atari Game Page:http://magenta.com/havoc ESLB\The Audio Analyst 509 S 2nd St Unit B Wanted: Atari I,Robot PCB Laramie, WY 82070 Data East Speed Buggy PCB (307)721-9001 Atari Quantum PCB From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 09:09:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 09:08:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 09:10:25 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Universal Sound Board? Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >But I hated to give up the "cheapness" of the PWM output of the PIC in >exchange for an external D/A and all the muxing involved, so I thought >another possibility would still be to use the PIC as the output device, >controlled by a master CPU. Well, I'd kinda agree except that a dedicated 10bit DAC is only $1.50 and an op-amp for the voltage output stage is only $.50, so if you already have a "control" CPU you could just run the DAC directly and avoid the pics, and the control CPU could use an external EPROM... So there's a $1 8051 with support components ($1), EPROM ($depends), DAC ($1.50), TLO-82 ($.50)... Pretty cheap. The 8051 will run at about a MIP at 12MHz, which should be good for a few voics, and the waveforms could be complex from the ROM... The same could be said for an 8051 (w/out external ROM) and a pair of POKEY's... (grand total about $3 in parts...) :-) >The PIC could either look at a parallel port, and when I receives the data >adjust it's PWM counter's accordingly. Or it could use one of those >dedicated serial ports (data/clock) which can be run *really* fast, as it's >input. Since the PIC doesn't have to convert serial to parallel in >software, this can be just as fast. Either method would allow the PICs to >be nothing but dedicated D/A's with the possibility of 4 channels per PIC >and very little external hardware. Or if you're going to use serial anyway, just use a single PIC and one of those Max528's. About $7 with serial input and 8 voltage output 8 bit D/A's in one package... >If you use one of the 33 I/O (40 pin) PICs, you can dedicate 8 lines to >inputs, and the rest (minus the PWM, and sound trigger lines) to outputs. >You can then connect the PICs outputs to the address lines of an external >EPROM, and the PICs inputs to the EPROMs data lines. This allows for a >*very* tight PIC loop, you set the outputs to the EPROM address, read the >EPROMs data, adjust the PWM timer, lather, rinse, repeat. This can be done >faster than if the data were actually in the PIC's ROM area! Hmmm. That's an interesting approach. I kinda like it except those 40 pin PICs are about $11 each... :-/ >A variation of this idea would be to have four loadable counters as the >address pointers, with the PIC controlling the enable lines of the >tri-statable counters. This way one write of the PIC could select between >the four addresses of the four voices, which could then be incremented >simultaneously. You could also use a smaller PIC. Each of the counters >could also go to different EPROMS, in which case all the EPROM's data lines >would be run in parallel and the EPROMs enable lines would be used as the >data selection lines. I've done something similar before-- but I skipped the presetable counters. Instead I sent a few I/O lines to the top address bits that let me select 8K chunks of the EPROM (each "sample"). Then a single global "clear" line cleared the counters and a single "clock" line (at whatever rate) played the sample. (The EPROM outputs went directly to a little resistor based D/A and into a lm386 audio amp.) (It was a weird little "digitized sound doorbell" I made during college.) Atari's Nightmare board uses two sets of presettable counters to load a start address and a length, and then free-runs the counters to load out the samples. Works nice, but takes two 16 bit writes to set the address and another two for the length, and a bunch of board space for the counters... >The ones that I bought a couple of, at Radio Shack, a while back were based >on the shift register approach, they included a schematic of their guts. >But that doesn't mean a thing, since most of what Radio Shack sells, they >found in someone else's garbage, there is no telling what has been on the >shelves of the "Shack" through the years. And it seems like I remember some >noise IC based on a leaky (zener) diode. I don't remember the part number. I know it's in the "yellow" Forrest Mimms "Engineers Notebook" RatShack was selling around '86... >The shift registers are definitely lacking in low end noise. Just compare >the rumbling explosions used in Space War where a leaky transistor was used >as the noise source and the hollow tinny explosions of Star Castle, where >the shift register approach was used. The Space War is much nicer. Yeah, that Space War sit-at *really* had a nice base rumble. Not as cool as Blasteroids with the big 8" woofer pointed at you, but then I suspect the Blasteroids sound board probably cost more than the entire Space War PCB's... ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 09:11:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 09:11:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 09:13:02 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: 68HC11's Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >If you'd consider an hc11 instead, I picked up a bunch of boards with >the 44 pin variety of this microcontroller. And it has EErom in it to >save high scores! The 68HC11 is a nice chip. I'd probably stick to a PIC or 8051 though since I have the development tools/programmers/etc for those already. I'm going to concentrate on the multi-game hardware/software at this pont, so this sound stuff is "up for grabs" as far as I'm concerned. ;-) Whoever wants to tackle it can use whatever they want... (Just remember to keep the cost down!) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 10:17:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 10:17:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:17:39 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: bpaul's manual copies Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Just a word of caution to anyone thinking of buying the $25 copies of Sega manuals that Bill Paul is selling that he has reduced the schematic pages to 8 1/2 * 11 from the original 11 * 17, making them very difficult to read. Considering I bought them JUST for the schematics and wiring diagrams (since most of the rest is duplicated in the other Sega manuals) I'm a bit annoyed right now.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 11:03:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 11:03:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 2 May 97 11:02 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970502105157.372fc364@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: Universal Sound Board? Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 09:10 AM 5/2/97 -0800, you wrote: > >>But I hated to give up the "cheapness" of the PWM output of the PIC in >>exchange for an external D/A and all the muxing involved, so I thought >>another possibility would still be to use the PIC as the output device, >>controlled by a master CPU. > >Well, I'd kinda agree except that a dedicated 10bit DAC is only $1.50 and >an op-amp for the voltage output stage is only $.50, so if you already have >a "control" CPU you could just run the DAC directly and avoid the pics, and >the control CPU could use an external EPROM... > >So there's a $1 8051 with support components ($1), EPROM ($depends), DAC >($1.50), TLO-82 ($.50)... Pretty cheap. The 8051 will run at about a MIP >at 12MHz, which should be good for a few voics, and the waveforms could be >complex from the ROM... I agree. When you want a DAC, buy a DAC. Though I think you can do multiplies quite a bit faster in a PIC than the 8051 (I've written math packages for both). So if you want to do any kind of, on the fly, volume control, sending the data through a PIC might get you a little better thorough put... >The same could be said for an 8051 (w/out external ROM) and a pair of >POKEY's... (grand total about $3 in parts...) :-) I'll probably get flamed for this... I should start by saying Tempest *is* my favorite game, but none the less, I think the sounds of those Pokey chips basically *suck*. They're not versatile enough to do a seamless job of imitating the analog sections of most game cards, and their white noise generation is randomly spaced square waves (the shift register approach). The "Zoom" sound in Tempest sounds more like a credit card on a stuckle wall than any kind of true "Engine Rumble" (Of course who knows, beside Dave Theurer(sp?) what "Zooming" really represents! Maybe it represents sliding down a stuckle wall with your credit cards hanging out of you back pocket. If so, Pokeys were a GREAT choice for Tempest!). Are Pokeys still being made? Loose the Pokeys! (The following editorial represents only the views of the author and not that of the Vectored Game Mailing List and Associates. Any complaints should be sent directly to the author, where they can be thoroughly ignored.) >>The PIC could either look at a parallel port, and when I receives the data >>adjust it's PWM counter's accordingly. Or it could use one of those >>dedicated serial ports (data/clock) which can be run *really* fast, as it's >>input. Since the PIC doesn't have to convert serial to parallel in >>software, this can be just as fast. Either method would allow the PICs to >>be nothing but dedicated D/A's with the possibility of 4 channels per PIC >>and very little external hardware. > >Or if you're going to use serial anyway, just use a single PIC and one of >those Max528's. About $7 with serial input and 8 voltage output 8 bit >D/A's in one package... I like this idea a lot! I'll have to look into that Maxim(sp?) chip (Does Maxim make some cool chips or what?). I imagine the clock rate needed to constantly refresh 8 continuous samples of audio is pretty high. (Oh like: 8*8*SampleRate) I believe the 68HC11 has a built in MUL instruction making Al and Jess's idea of using the 68HC11 more viable. I think a 68HC11 and a few of those Maxim chips might be a pretty cool way to go. Assuming the 68HC11 could do the clocking in hardware (through a built in serial port?), the 68HC11 could do attack/decay control in software. If not, you can do the Attack/Decay using some properly designed sample tables, meaning more EPROM. Of course the 68HC11 also has the built in PWM (The 68HC11 was *another* approach I was looking at when thinking of a Cinematronics universal sound card.) It's also pretty simple to use an external latch (or two) as part of the addressing of the 68HC11 to allow for banking. And the 68HC11 being a nice, straight forward, Von Neuman device, table look ups [of the sampled wave in EPROM] is simple. Though for simpling data moving, it is a tad slower than tbe PICs... > >>If you use one of the 33 I/O (40 pin) PICs, you can dedicate 8 lines to >>inputs, and the rest (minus the PWM, and sound trigger lines) to outputs. >>You can then connect the PICs outputs to the address lines of an external >>EPROM, and the PICs inputs to the EPROMs data lines. This allows for a >>*very* tight PIC loop, you set the outputs to the EPROM address, read the >>EPROMs data, adjust the PWM timer, lather, rinse, repeat. This can be done >>faster than if the data were actually in the PIC's ROM area! > >Hmmm. That's an interesting approach. I kinda like it except those 40 pin >PICs are about $11 each... :-/ I know, hence the external counters and a lower end PIC. But then again how many sound cards do you intend to buy? Even if you used 4 $11 PICs, another $50 worth of "other stuff", a $50 PCB. Considering the prices I've paid for my collection of Sega Boards, a "Universal Sound card at $150" sounds like a deal to me! If one were available "right now", I'd be filling out a check, "right now"! And hell, if I owned the card I'd want the $25 reprogrammable PICs anyways! I'd want a "Universal" Universal Sound card! Am I the only one to pay more than $150 for a game board? >>A variation of this idea would be to have four loadable counters as the >>address pointers, with the PIC controlling the enable lines of the >>tri-statable counters. This way one write of the PIC could select between >>the four addresses of the four voices, which could then be incremented >>simultaneously. You could also use a smaller PIC. Each of the counters >>could also go to different EPROMS, in which case all the EPROM's data lines >>would be run in parallel and the EPROMs enable lines would be used as the >>data selection lines. > >I've done something similar before-- but I skipped the presetable counters. >Instead I sent a few I/O lines to the top address bits that let me select >8K chunks of the EPROM (each "sample"). Then a single global "clear" line >cleared the counters and a single "clock" line (at whatever rate) played >the sample. (The EPROM outputs went directly to a little resistor based >D/A and into a lm386 audio amp.) (It was a weird little "digitized sound >doorbell" I made during college.) > >Atari's Nightmare board uses two sets of presettable counters to load a >start address and a length, and then free-runs the counters to load out the >samples. Works nice, but takes two 16 bit writes to set the address and >another two for the length, and a bunch of board space for the counters... Four 16 bit writes for the entire sound doesn't sound bad at all! The problem is that if the samples are not being fed through the CPU, no attack/decay control can be done. It's too much trouble anyway. That's what CPU's are for. What's the point in using a processor if it's just going to sit around and wait for the hardware to do what it should be doing itself? Those poor Atari guys just didn't have the luxury of cheap processors... Using a processor you need only set the counters at the start of the sound, no length, then one clock line is used to increment all counters. Though for many of the Cinematronics games you'd want to run the samples at different speeds, based on what the game called for (Ex: Armor Attack tanks are the same sound engine, but speeded up as the game progresses. They do this a lot in their games.), so you (ok *I*) might want separate clocks. -Zonn PS I'll look around the local electronic surplus stores for the noise generator and let you know if I find anything. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 11:04:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 11:04:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 11:04:13 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: parts cost Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Clay said: "I'm going to concentrate on the multi-game hardware/software at this pont, so this sound stuff is "up for grabs" as far as I'm concerned. ;-) Whoever wants to tackle it can use whatever they want... (Just remember to keep the cost down!)" Considering that the bare board is probably going to be $200, spending $100 on parts doesn't seem out of line. If anyone knows of a cheaper PC house, i'd be interested in hearing about it. Like I said in a previous mail message, I used to get good prices on double-sided boards from Rob Lashinski at Capitol Circuits in Carol Stream IL, but I don't know if Rob is still around (this was over 10 years ago). I'm still leaning towards a cheap 16 bit Analog Devices DSP. There must be some sound code around for these things somewhere... From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 11:40:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 11:40:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970502113540.0067d020@mage.qualcomm.com> X-Sender: wpaul@mage.qualcomm.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 11:35:40 -0700 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Bill Paul Subject: Re: bpaul's manual copies In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 10:17 AM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Just a word of caution to anyone thinking of buying the $25 copies of >Sega manuals that Bill Paul is selling that he has reduced the schematic >pages to 8 1/2 * 11 from the original 11 * 17, making them very difficult >to read. > >Considering I bought them JUST for the schematics and wiring diagrams >(since most of the rest is duplicated in the other Sega manuals) I'm >a bit annoyed right now.. > To Al and all, Sorry if you were mislead into thinking I was going to copy all the 11x17 double sided schematics to their original size. I actually was going to do this, but it turned out to be extremely time consuming, difficult to store the master copy, a pain to fold all the pages in properly, and extra dificutly during the binding process. I did consider quality and clarity an issue, and since the (64%) 8.5 x 11 copy is perfectly legible, I went ahead and made it that way. The only exception is the text is smaller, but still readable. So if this is unsatisfactory to you, I will (for you and you only), send 11x17 copies of the Space Fury schematics, unbound, folded in half, at no charge. As for anyone else, this is fair warning. The schematics in Space Fury, Zector, as well as a few of my Atari schematics are reduced in size if the copy quality allows it. If I had my choice, I would produce an identical copy of the original, including the brown cover, rather than the negative image cover, but economics and feasabilty changed the way it came out. Thanks for your time, -BP ==================================== Bill Paul bpaul@qualcomm.com Q-161A2 619-658-3741 ==================================== From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 11:40:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 11:40:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 11:42:23 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: parts cost Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Considering that the bare board is probably going to be $200, spending >$100 on parts doesn't seem out of line. Well, I want to keep the price reasonable and more importantly keep the scope of the project small enough that it can be realistically completed in the spare time of those of use working on it. :-) So in general I'm trying to avoid lots of chips, chips with fine pitch surface mount packages, and wide address busses that we're need x16 or x24 bit data paths on. Unless someone has a copy of PADs PCB or Tango and knows how to use it, I'm thinking this will be hand routed and I'm not keen on playing with 10000 nets in two layers... ;-) We could always just use one of those $99 TI 32c0xx "audio" eval boards... ;-) >If anyone knows of a cheaper PC house, i'd be interested in hearing about >it. Like I said in a previous mail message, I used to get good prices on >double-sided boards from Rob Lashinski at Capitol Circuits in Carol Stream >IL, but I don't know if Rob is still around (this was over 10 years ago). Well, I got a quote of $12/each for an 8.5"x11" PCB. Of course that was from hong-kong, and a minimum order of 500 units... :-/ I really want to keep the board size to 8.5x6" which would get us under $50/pcb (bare) without much trouble. My proto's will be more in the $60-70/ea range (qty 4), albeit without soldermask or silkscreen... >I'm still leaning towards a cheap 16 bit Analog Devices DSP. There must be >some sound code around for these things somewhere... I think that's a groovy idea. Do you have time to learn to program the thing though? (That's why I keep kicking the PIC/other ideas around with Zonn.) This does have DSP written all over it though, I must admit-- and the AD beats the hell out of the TI stuff for programming, IMHO... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 11:47:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 11:47:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 13:42:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199705021842.NAA22461@moe.works.ti.com> From: Michael Schulz To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Is there a vectorlist archive Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Is there an archive of old vectorlist messages, and if so, where? Thanks, Mike -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Schulz | Texas Instruments, SpecWorks Software Design Engineer | (972) 927-5847, mschulz@ti.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- The opinions and views expressed are my own, and do ------------- ----------- not necessarily reflect those of Texas Instruments Inc. ----------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 12:07:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 12:07:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705021857.OAA05036@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 13:48:56 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: aek@motgate.mot.com (Al Kossow) "parts cost" (May 2, 11:04am) References: <199705021809.OAA00856@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: parts cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 2, 11:04am, Al Kossow wrote: > Subject: parts cost > > Clay said: > > "I'm > going to concentrate on the multi-game hardware/software at this pont, so > this sound stuff is "up for grabs" as far as I'm concerned. ;-) Whoever > wants to tackle it can use whatever they want... (Just remember to keep > the cost down!)" > > Considering that the bare board is probably going to be $200, spending > $100 on parts doesn't seem out of line. I realize that this is an exercise in testing your technological limits in being able to build this, and I realize everyone loves multigames when they work, but I would think it would be cheaper just to buy the individual sound boards for each game. For example, next week I'll be selling these boards at the following prices: Sound boards ------------ Eliminator/Zektor $20 Space Fury $25 Universal Sound board $30 Speechboards $10 So you see, you can get every sound board for every Sega XY game for $85. I'll even sell them CHEAPER if your willing to take broken ones and fix them yourself! And it's also neat to have one EPROM board with every game on it and not have to swap it. But... EPROM boards ------------ unpopulated, untested $5 populated, tested $15 So while you're solutions will be clever, slick and fancy, there is possibly a more feasible solution to having multiple Sega XY games (though it would be cool to bank the CPU EPROM/Special chips and speech board EPROMs so you don't have to swap those all the time.) Anyway, just thought I'd provide an alternative solution for now. ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 12:24:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 12:24:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <336A3DF9.3951@telis.org> Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 12:18:17 -0700 From: Bill Esquivel X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: bpaul's manual copies References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Al, I have a tacscan original manual you can borrow. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 12:28:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 12:28:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:28:34 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Is there a vectorlist archive Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com they should be going into an archive file on www.spies.com i'll put a link to it in www.spies.com/arcade From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 12:30:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 12:29:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:31:47 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Universal Sound Board? Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >I agree. When you want a DAC, buy a DAC. Though I think you can do >multiplies quite a bit faster in a PIC than the 8051 (I've written math >packages for both). So if you want to do any kind of, on the fly, volume >control, sending the data through a PIC might get you a little better >thorough put... Hmmmm. We could do what the Universal Sound Board does and use PWM outputs from the PIC tied to caps to make a envelope control for each voice output... Doesn't the 8051 have a MUL instruction? Thought for sure it did. Seems like its a 24 clock execution time? (So yeah, if you run a PIC at 20MHz and the 8051 at 12MHz, you'd have what-- around 48 instructions on the PIC to do a multiply and come out ahead of the '51... That shouldn't be too tough. ;-) >I should start by saying Tempest *is* my favorite game, but none the less, I >think the sounds of those Pokey chips basically *suck*. Well, in practice I'd agree with you, but I think the old "beep-boop" and weird grinding periodic noise sounds the POKEYs make are kinda cool in that "retro" way. And 4 voices for $.80 (price of a Ball-Blazer cart) is hard to beat... >>Or if you're going to use serial anyway, just use a single PIC and one of >>those Max528's. About $7 with serial input and 8 voltage output 8 bit >>D/A's in one package... > >I like this idea a lot! I'll have to look into that Maxim(sp?) chip (Does >Maxim make some cool chips or what?). I imagine the clock rate needed to >constantly refresh 8 continuous samples of audio is pretty high. (Oh like: >8*8*SampleRate) I think it's more like 16*8*rate since there's going to be some bits to select which channel to talk to. I think it's a 3-wire interface. >It's also pretty simple to use an external latch (or two) as part of the >addressing of the 68HC11 to allow for banking. And the 68HC11 being a nice, >straight forward, Von Neuman device, table look ups [of the sampled wave in >EPROM] is simple. Though for simpling data moving, it is a tad slower than >tbe PICs... Yeah, I always just OR the program and data store enable pins together on the 8051... Aside from still having a "DPTR" it's a little more "normal" to use that way... ;-) >I know, hence the external counters and a lower end PIC. But then again how >many sound cards do you intend to buy? Even if you used 4 $11 PICs, another >$50 worth of "other stuff", a $50 PCB. Considering the prices I've paid for >my collection of Sega Boards, a "Universal Sound card at $150" sounds like a >deal to me! If one were available "right now", I'd be filling out a check, >"right now"! And hell, if I owned the card I'd want the $25 reprogrammable >PICs anyways! I'd want a "Universal" Universal Sound card! > >Am I the only one to pay more than $150 for a game board? Well, there's those "magic" marketing price points. (some lower ones) $99, $199, $249, $499, $999 (and the higher ones) The rationale being that a particular group of consumers will be willing to purchase a particular item since it's "under" a price that they consider "high". I'm probably overly price-aware since our "real" business is low-margin, high volume. If we sell 250,000 or something a month and we're paying an extra $.10 for it that's $300,000 a year off the bottom line. I definately want the multi-game ROM/input mapper board to be $99 or under. If the UniversalSB doesn't fit on there at that price I suppose it could be another $99 board... ;-) >Four 16 bit writes for the entire sound doesn't sound bad at all! The >problem is that if the samples are not being fed through the CPU, no >attack/decay control can be done. Nightmare used a 4bit ADPCM sample system (Basically a telephone chip) which they used a four bit mux to swap nibbles to the ADPCM on every address clock. Kinda cool idea, pretty efficient, particularly compared to having a processor fetch and store to the codec at the right rate... >It's too much trouble anyway. That's what CPU's are for. What's the point >in using a processor if it's just going to sit around and wait for the >hardware to do what it should be doing itself? Those poor Atari guys just >didn't have the luxury of cheap processors... Well, yeah, they were just saving cycles for game logic I'd imagine (Nightmare is pretty busy). I have a schematic from Atari for a "Sampled Audio Cruncher" (never made it into a design as far as I know) that was a 68000 that mixed and played 8 bits samples out through a 12 bit DAC. (Kind-of a souped up Bally/Midway Cheap Squeak Deluxe board.) >PS I'll look around the local electronic surplus stores for the noise >generator and let you know if I find anything. Thanks, that'd be interesting. Maybe we should be looking at modifying the existing Universal Sound Board? It already has 9 DACs with Whit noise generators, etc. We could bank switch the downloadable RAMs out with EPROM and add another couple interface port latches and use the existing hardware card with a new program to be the sound source for Zektor/Elim/SF... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 12:48:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 12:48:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:48:22 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: bpaul's manual copies Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Thanks, I did have originals for Trek and Tac/Scan, and a copy from Rick of 4 Player Eliminator, so Space Fury and Zektor were the only manuals I didn't have schematics for. I just created links to the monthy archive of vectorlist messages on www.spies.com, so you can get to every message sent out now (a month at a time..) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 12:58:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 12:58:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 14:54:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199705021954.OAA22497@moe.works.ti.com> From: Michael Schulz To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In-Reply-To: (aek@dragon.ti.com) Subject: Re: archive Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >I just created links to the monthy archive of vectorlist >messages on www.spies.com, so you can get to every message >sent out now (a month at a time..) > Thanks! -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Schulz | Texas Instruments, SpecWorks Software Design Engineer | (972) 927-5847, mschulz@ti.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- The opinions and views expressed are my own, and do ------------- ----------- not necessarily reflect those of Texas Instruments Inc. ----------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 13:01:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 13:01:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705022005.QAA10636@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 14:57:24 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Michael Schulz "Re: archive" (May 2, 2:54pm) References: <199705022004.QAA10541@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: archive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com All, I have a new version of the FAQ. Where do I send it? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 14:00:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 13:59:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 16:55:27 -0400 (EDT) From: David Shuman To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: parts cost In-Reply-To: <199705021857.OAA05036@po_box.cig.mot.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Fri, 2 May 1997, Mark Jenison wrote: > For example, next week I'll be selling these boards at the following prices: > ------------ > Eliminator/Zektor $20 Just writing to confirm I'm locked in for one at $10 + my trade-in. --Dave-- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 14:06:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:06:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705022110.RAA16697@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 16:02:19 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: David Shuman "Re: parts cost" (May 2, 4:55pm) References: <199705022105.RAA16164@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: parts cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 2, 4:55pm, David Shuman wrote: > Subject: Re: parts cost > On Fri, 2 May 1997, Mark Jenison wrote: > > For example, next week I'll be selling these boards at the following prices: > > ------------ > > Eliminator/Zektor $20 > > Just writing to confirm I'm locked in for one at $10 + my trade-in. Yep. I guess I didn't make it clear that I have multiples of these... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 14:08:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:08:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Message-Id: <9705022103.AA29938@savage.raleigh.ibm.com> Subject: Re: parts cost To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 17:03:52 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199705021857.OAA05036@po_box.cig.mot.com> from "Mark Jenison" at May 2, 97 01:48:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 654 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > For example, next week I'll be selling these boards at the following prices: > > Sound boards > ------------ > Space Fury $25 Can I go ahead and put an order in now for one of these? :-) > EPROM boards > ------------ > populated, tested $15 If you have one populated and tested for Space Fury, I'll take one of these as well... :-) John +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John W. Linville To Be, Rather Than To Seem. | | linvjw@vnet.ibm.com http://www4.ncsu.edu/eos/users/j/jwlinvi/www | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 14:10:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:10:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Message-Id: <9705022105.AA27932@savage.raleigh.ibm.com> Subject: Re: parts cost To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 17:05:46 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199705021857.OAA05036@po_box.cig.mot.com> from "Mark Jenison" at May 2, 97 01:48:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 396 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Ooops, should've checked the message headers...that was meant to be sent just to Mark... Sorry! John +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John W. Linville To Be, Rather Than To Seem. | | linvjw@vnet.ibm.com http://www4.ncsu.edu/eos/users/j/jwlinvi/www | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 14:15:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:15:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 2 May 97 14:14 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970502141118.13b7c4f0@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: Universal Sound Board? Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 12:31 PM 5/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >>I agree. When you want a DAC, buy a DAC. Though I think you can do >>multiplies quite a bit faster in a PIC than the 8051 (I've written math >>packages for both). So if you want to do any kind of, on the fly, volume >>control, sending the data through a PIC might get you a little better >>thorough put... > >Hmmmm. We could do what the Universal Sound Board does and use PWM outputs >from the PIC tied to caps to make a envelope control for each voice >output... > >Doesn't the 8051 have a MUL instruction? Thought for sure it did. Seems >like its a 24 clock execution time? (So yeah, if you run a PIC at 20MHz >and the 8051 at 12MHz, you'd have what-- around 48 instructions on the PIC >to do a multiply and come out ahead of the '51... That shouldn't be too >tough. ;-) It must. The company I worked at two jobs ago (I contract) was a medical manufactoring company. My job was to program an 8051 derivative, that was connected to a DAC, to make all the sounds needed by a respirator. (Kind of a Respirator Universal Sound Board) I had to do all the attack and decay envelopes in software, and I didn't write MUL routine, so I'd say yes, it does have a multiply. (As a side note: On one version of the sound card, when something *bad* happened, oh like breath delivery going "flatline" the error sound that sounded was Bullwinkle saying "Now watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!". Pretty funny, but the FDA takes such things VERY seriously, and I personally erased that copy of the EPROM, just to be sure it didn't go any further. Never can tell you know. And I can't imagine anything more uncomfortable than being questioned in a wrongful death suit, and having the defense attorney playing that sound. *Shudder*) >>I should start by saying Tempest *is* my favorite game, but none the less, I >>think the sounds of those Pokey chips basically *suck*. > >Well, in practice I'd agree with you, but I think the old "beep-boop" and >weird grinding periodic noise sounds the POKEYs make are kinda cool in that >"retro" way. And 4 voices for $.80 (price of a Ball-Blazer cart) is hard >to beat... Oh don't get me wrong, I wouldn't change the sound of my Tempest! I just think they used what they had (what was cheap) and ended up with lousy white noise, and tinny, little "beepie" sounds. And I know you couldn't make the analog sounds that were used in even the original Asteroids. (Damn! I can't believe I paid $2 for some old carts to get the Pokeys, I don't even know what the carts are.) >>>Or if you're going to use serial anyway, just use a single PIC and one of >>>those Max528's. About $7 with serial input and 8 voltage output 8 bit >>>D/A's in one package... >> >>I like this idea a lot! I'll have to look into that Maxim(sp?) chip (Does >>Maxim make some cool chips or what?). I imagine the clock rate needed to >>constantly refresh 8 continuous samples of audio is pretty high. (Oh like: >>8*8*SampleRate) > >I think it's more like 16*8*rate since there's going to be some bits to >select which channel to talk to. I think it's a 3-wire interface. Ouch. That's fast. >>It's also pretty simple to use an external latch (or two) as part of the >>addressing of the 68HC11 to allow for banking. And the 68HC11 being a nice, >>straight forward, Von Neuman device, table look ups [of the sampled wave in >>EPROM] is simple. Though for simpling data moving, it is a tad slower than >>tbe PICs... > >Yeah, I always just OR the program and data store enable pins together on >the 8051... Aside from still having a "DPTR" it's a little more "normal" >to use that way... ;-) > >>I know, hence the external counters and a lower end PIC. But then again how >>many sound cards do you intend to buy? Even if you used 4 $11 PICs, another >>$50 worth of "other stuff", a $50 PCB. Considering the prices I've paid for >>my collection of Sega Boards, a "Universal Sound card at $150" sounds like a >>deal to me! If one were available "right now", I'd be filling out a check, >>"right now"! And hell, if I owned the card I'd want the $25 reprogrammable >>PICs anyways! I'd want a "Universal" Universal Sound card! >> >>Am I the only one to pay more than $150 for a game board? > >Well, there's those "magic" marketing price points. > >(some lower ones) $99, $199, $249, $499, $999 (and the higher ones) > >The rationale being that a particular group of consumers will be willing to >purchase a particular item since it's "under" a price that they consider >"high". > >I'm probably overly price-aware since our "real" business is low-margin, >high volume. If we sell 250,000 or something a month and we're paying an >extra $.10 for it that's $300,000 a year off the bottom line. I definately >want the multi-game ROM/input mapper board to be $99 or under. If the >UniversalSB doesn't fit on there at that price I suppose it could be >another $99 board... ;-) My current job is consumer products and I can get caught up in the same thing (save a dime and your a hero). So I was just taking a step back and wondering how much *I* would pay, once. I think the real key here is that if your volunteering to lay this out by (*choke*) hand (*cough*), a low part count would be the goal. One $100 part that did everything we needed, with just the data and address lines needing connecting would be much more desirable than $20 worth of glue logic that did the same thing, if it consisted of 39 ICs, 10 transistors, 14 caps, etc. > >Maybe we should be looking at modifying the existing Universal Sound Board? >It already has 9 DACs with Whit noise generators, etc. We could bank >switch the downloadable RAMs out with EPROM and add another couple >interface port latches and use the existing hardware card with a new >program to be the sound source for Zektor/Elim/SF... Sounds like a more *realistic* goal, if you could create all the proper sounds! -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 14:16:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:15:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 14:17:26 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: parts cost Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com General-purpose sound board vs. the real thing... >Sound boards >------------ >Eliminator/Zektor $20 >Space Fury $25 Well you can put me down for one of each. :-) I really want to see/hear these things in person. >So you see, you can get every sound board for every Sega XY game for $85. >I'll even sell them CHEAPER if your willing to take broken ones and fix them >yourself! That's indeed cool, but I've been under the impression that there's not a whole lot of these things just sitting around. I'd love to be wrong on that. :-) I kinda self-appointed myself to do the multi-game switcher (I really do hate swapping boards) since there's a nice clean software/hardware method to do it. (At least as far as the game code and Speech ROMs are concerned) I'm not religiously aligned with a replacement sound board other than the fact that I've kinda guestimated there would be about ~50 people on the net that would want a multi-game and I figured there were less than that many sound boards readily available for cheap... >So while you're solutions will be clever, slick and fancy, there is possibly a >more feasible solution to having multiple Sega XY games (though it would be >cool to bank the CPU EPROM/Special chips and speech board EPROMs so you don't >have to swap those all the time.) Well, this might make for a real short discussion-- how many "Sets" do you have? -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 14:23:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:23:28 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 14:23:24 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Version 1.6 of the X/Y FAQ Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Mark just sent me version 1.6 of the Sega X/Y FAQ it is up on spies at: http://www.spies.com/arcade/simulation/gameHardware/segaxyfaq1.6 From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 14:32:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:32:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705022136.RAA19331@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 16:28:24 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "Re: parts cost" (May 2, 2:17pm) References: <199705022120.RAA17636@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: parts cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 2, 2:17pm, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Subject: Re: parts cost > General-purpose sound board vs. the real thing... > > >Sound boards > >------------ > >Eliminator/Zektor $20 > >Space Fury $25 > > Well you can put me down for one of each. :-) I really want to see/hear > these things in person. You're down for these two. > >So you see, you can get every sound board for every Sega XY game for $85. > >I'll even sell them CHEAPER if your willing to take broken ones and fix them > >yourself! > > That's indeed cool, but I've been under the impression that there's not a > whole lot of these things just sitting around. I'd love to be wrong on > that. :-) You are :-) > Well, this might make for a real short discussion-- how many "Sets" do you have? I believe I have more than enough to satisfy the needs of the RGVAC. However, I have a good number of these in need of repair, so I may sell out of working ones quickly, and then there will be a wait for me to repair some more... BTW, I also have all the other boards available, too... ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 14:41:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:41:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 14:41:20 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: multi-game proto board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com well, it looks like the sound part of it is still up in the air, so what about a board with just the bank switched ROM, 4 player input mux, level converters for a WG monitor, with adr/data buffering and a couple of 22V10's wired up for io and adr decoding, then a big wire wrap area to prototype the sound hardware? Bring out the adr/data and strobes to vias so they're easy to get to. That way, if you didn't want to mess with the sound at all you could bank switch the existing sound cards with a single wire over to this card which would replace the EPROM board. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 14:50:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:50:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 14:51:36 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: G-80 Multigame... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com OK, here's a quiz for everyone then. (please reply to "clay@supra.com" so we don't clutter up the mailing list) Before Dave, Zonn, Al and all of us spend a whole bunch of time designing/coding/producing a Multi-game system for the Sega G-80 games, would you: 1) Buy a Multi-game board for $99 that allowed you to play (on one machine): Star Trek Zektor Space Fury Eliminator Tac Scan But without "sound effects" for Space Fury, Eliminator/Zektor unless you buy a sound board for those specifically? 2) Buy a Multi-game board for $199 that allowed you to play (on one machine): Star Trek Zektor Space Fury Eliminator Tac Scan With sounds for all games. (although the SF/Zektor/Elim sounds may not be 100% original.) 3) Pay another $50 for a "development" version of the board with documentation that allows you to hook up a PC/MAC by a serial cable and write your own games? The point of this isn't a business venture, but when making a small production run of printed circuit boards I need to have a feel for how many I'll be doing to get quantity price breaks and buy parts, etc. There will be some "profit" margin in there to cover bad boards, general expenses, the occasional lost package, and the inevitable "support" time to help troubleshoot, etc. but with a grand total of maybe 50 units being produced (ever) nobody's going to get rich... (The answer doesn't *really* matter to me since I'm doing one for myself one way or the other, but it'll help us figure out if we should worry about price or not...) Thanks, -Clay P.S. Hey Al, how many people are on the mailing list? Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 15:00:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 15:00:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 14:55:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Hedley Rainnie X-Sender: hedley@chicago To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Audio emulation In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Folks, I have discussed custom audio board emulation with Al recently. Basically the idea is to spice the analog on the boards and come up with .wav file output from the simulations. I have since refined this thought to an idea of a equivalent digital block that works at say 8khz and maintains (via approximations based off the original spice runs) state of the circuit for the sounds in question. Parts of the circuit that produce ramps or slow changing output can be dumbed down from the 8khz output rate (in case the model for the device in question is computationally too intensive). I don't see P5 based platforms really getting to upset by the 8khz block calculations. Hedley PS: The Zektor story has been a really quite inspiring. Sort of stuff that in other contexts sounds a bit like the holy grail. Great story, great ending. hedley@8x8.com | 8x8, Inc hedley@netcom.com | Santa Clara, CA. (408) 654-0883 From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 15:01:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 15:01:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 15:00:40 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: multi-game proto board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >well, it looks like the sound part of it is still up in the air, so >what about a board with just the bank switched ROM, 4 player input >mux, level converters for a WG monitor, with adr/data buffering >and a couple of 22V10's wired up for io and adr decoding, then a >big wire wrap area to prototype the sound hardware? Bring out the >adr/data and strobes to vias so they're easy to get to. That way, >if you didn't want to mess with the sound at all you could bank >switch the existing sound cards with a single wire over to this >card which would replace the EPROM board. That's pretty much what my proto's are. There's the bank selection hardware (I think it fits in a 16L8) with the EPROMs, a PIC to handle the input mapping and NMI generation, and (tentatively) a serial port and SRAM for program development. The level convertors are easy enough as long as you can live with the pincushion distortion of the WG monitor. Wire wrap area is probably a good idea, but I haven't looked in to it yet. It'll push the cost of the PCB up since the drill time will increase... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 15:03:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 15:03:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 15:04:39 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: multi-game proto board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hmmmmm. If it wasn't for the metal box we could just make a new backplane with two extra slots for all the sound cards, then bank select them somehow... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 15:08:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 15:07:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 2 May 97 15:06 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970502150339.21bfd02c@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: multi-game proto board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 02:41 PM 5/2/97 -0700, you wrote: > >well, it looks like the sound part of it is still up in the air, so >what about a board with just the bank switched ROM, 4 player input >mux, level converters for a WG monitor, with adr/data buffering >and a couple of 22V10's wired up for io and adr decoding, then a >big wire wrap area to prototype the sound hardware? Bring out the >adr/data and strobes to vias so they're easy to get to. That way, >if you didn't want to mess with the sound at all you could bank >switch the existing sound cards with a single wire over to this >card which would replace the EPROM board. Excellect idea, now your onto to something I'd *really* like to have. There is just one thing though. The difference between the Sega monitors and WG is more than just level shifting. The Sega monitor is capable of a faster vector sweep rate. The WG will not be able to keep up with Sega vector generator. I haven't tried this but my guess is that in order to see a non-distorted picture, your going to end up with a shrunkin image centered on the WG. You won't be able to compensate for this with signal amplification since the problem is in how fast you can "charge" the inductance of the yoke. The only way move the beam faster is to increase the maximum allowable yoke currents. Assuming the Yoke inductance remains constant, you must drive it with higher X/Y voltages. Which is why the Sega monitor needs +/- 50 volts while the WG monitor only uses +/-25. It's also why Sega monitors are so flamable. The fix for a WG would be a little involved, but not a lot. I would suggest parallelled transistors to handle the higher wattages (as opposed to the fan thingy). But mostly it would be changing values here and there to handle the higher +/- 50 volts. Since it would still be able to handle the slower Atari speeds the "upgraded" WG should still work with the Atari (and in the case of Boxing Bugs and War of the Worlds, Cinematronics) games. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 15:14:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 15:13:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705022217.SAA22340@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 17:08:55 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "Re: multi-game proto board" (May 2, 3:04pm) References: <199705022207.SAA21710@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: multi-game proto board Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 2, 3:04pm, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Subject: Re: multi-game proto board > Hmmmmm. If it wasn't for the metal box we could just make a new backplane > with two extra slots for all the sound cards, then bank select them > somehow... I've tried to look into this, but backplanes aren't cheap (but I'd prefer this personally, since if one piece of hardware goes down, I don't lose all 5 games). ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 15:25:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 15:25:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 2 May 97 15:24 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970502152124.13b7c106@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: multi-game proto board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 03:00 PM 5/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >>well, it looks like the sound part of it is still up in the air, so >>what about a board with just the bank switched ROM, 4 player input >>mux, level converters for a WG monitor, with adr/data buffering >>and a couple of 22V10's wired up for io and adr decoding, then a >>big wire wrap area to prototype the sound hardware? Bring out the >>adr/data and strobes to vias so they're easy to get to. That way, >>if you didn't want to mess with the sound at all you could bank >>switch the existing sound cards with a single wire over to this >>card which would replace the EPROM board. > >That's pretty much what my proto's are. There's the bank selection >hardware (I think it fits in a 16L8) with the EPROMs, a PIC to handle the >input mapping and NMI generation, and (tentatively) a serial port and SRAM >for program development. The level convertors are easy enough as long as >you can live with the pincushion distortion of the WG monitor. So have you tried this? And all you get is the pincushion effect? No problem with filling the entire monitor with vectors? That would make life easier. Maybe the Sega Vector systems aren't using the full speed capabilities of the GO-8 monitors. That would be nice. Does anybody know exactly how fast the Sega system sweeps it's vectors? Is this in the FAQ? Should I just read the FAQ and stop bugging you guys? Or should I shut down Eudora and acutally get some work done today? -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 15:29:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 15:29:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 2 May 97 15:28 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970502152522.21bfdb52@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: multi-game proto board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 03:04 PM 5/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >Hmmmmm. If it wasn't for the metal box we could just make a new backplane >with two extra slots for all the sound cards, then bank select them >somehow... This is my current plan. I plan on selecting the cards by enable/disabling their address decoders with an extra 'AND' gate or something (that is hopefully already on the boards as an unused gate). I just got lucky and happen to have an extra card cage. :^) -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 15:43:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 15:43:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705022247.SAA24238@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 17:39:03 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Zonn "Re: multi-game proto board" (May 2, 3:28pm) References: <199705022233.SAA23431@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: multi-game proto board Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 2, 3:28pm, Zonn wrote: > Subject: Re: multi-game proto board > At 03:04 PM 5/2/97 -0800, you wrote: > >Hmmmmm. If it wasn't for the metal box we could just make a new backplane > >with two extra slots for all the sound cards, then bank select them > >somehow... > > This is my current plan. I plan on selecting the cards by enable/disabling > their address decoders with an extra 'AND' gate or something (that is > hopefully already on the boards as an unused gate). > > I just got lucky and happen to have an extra card cage. :^) So do I, but you CANT fit two cages in the Eliminator 4-player without modifying the cabinet, and I'd never consider doing that! If I could find one LONG piece to mount in the bottom of the cabinet with 8 slots, that would be a different story ;-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 15:48:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 15:48:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705022252.SAA24485@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 17:44:01 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "Re: parts cost" (May 2, 2:17pm) References: <199705022120.RAA17636@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: parts cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On the topic of vector monitors: I used to think 4-player Eliminator used to push the G08 to the limits with it's attract mode and constantly displaying that boarder on the outside, but ZEKTOR TOTALLY works the monitor over! It sounds like a chainsaw running in my 4-player Eliminator! (fancy demo mode, plus it draws 3 boarders around the screen during game play!) If you can find a monitor that displays Zektor correctly, you can display anything....maybe that's why you didn't see many Zektors; they blew the monitors as soon as you put them in! :-) ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 15:53:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 15:53:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 2 May 97 15:52 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970502154916.2d57945c@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: multi-game proto board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 05:39 PM 5/2/97 -0500, you wrote: >On May 2, 3:28pm, Zonn wrote: >> Subject: Re: multi-game proto board >> At 03:04 PM 5/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >> >Hmmmmm. If it wasn't for the metal box we could just make a new backplane >> >with two extra slots for all the sound cards, then bank select them >> >somehow... >> >> This is my current plan. I plan on selecting the cards by enable/disabling >> their address decoders with an extra 'AND' gate or something (that is >> hopefully already on the boards as an unused gate). >> >> I just got lucky and happen to have an extra card cage. :^) > >So do I, but you CANT fit two cages in the Eliminator 4-player without >modifying the cabinet, and I'd never consider doing that! Ooooh! *shudder* to think of it! Only the Convert-a-cabinet gets the hacks. Hell the only control panel I have for it is an old Space Odessy, and the only Marquee (Beside the "Gunsmoke" that came with the cabinet *more shudders*) is a Tac/Scan that looks like it was used as a skate board, with the painted side down. I'm sure I can find room in it. My Eliminator 4-player remains dedicated, no hacks. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 16:41:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 16:41:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 16:43:34 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: multi-game proto board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >On May 2, 3:28pm, Zonn wrote: >> Subject: Re: multi-game proto board >> At 03:04 PM 5/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >> >Hmmmmm. If it wasn't for the metal box we could just make a new backplane >> >with two extra slots for all the sound cards, then bank select them >> >somehow... [...] >So do I, but you CANT fit two cages in the Eliminator 4-player without >modifying the cabinet, and I'd never consider doing that! > >If I could find one LONG piece to mount in the bottom of the cabinet with 8 >slots, that would be a different story ;-) Right, this would be the reason to do the new backplane-- just to have more slots available for all the sound card variations. You could use two of the "6 slot" backplanes and connect them together (resulting in a 10 slot unit). This is a really slow bus, so two layers would be fine. If you go with a metal cage I doubt it would even need any layers for EMI. (Not like anyone is going to take it through FCC part 15 anyway...) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 17:00:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 17:00:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 17:02:30 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: multi-game proto board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >So have you tried this? And all you get is the pincushion effect? No >problem with filling the entire monitor with vectors? That would make life >easier. Maybe the Sega Vector systems aren't using the full speed >capabilities of the GO-8 monitors. That would be nice. I haven't tried it myself-- others have though and the "distortion" effect was limited to an occasional miss-placed vector. You could probably drive the deflection section a little harder, or more likely just live with it. ;-) >Does anybody know exactly how fast the Sega system sweeps it's vectors? Is >this in the FAQ? Should I just read the FAQ and stop bugging you guys? Or >should I shut down Eudora and acutally get some work done today? I've pretty much given up on the "work" thing today. ;-) When I'm not replying to these there's been a constant stream of people in and out of my office... The Sega vector system is kinda like an Atari Digital vector generator. (A pair of DACs fed from a pair of digital counters.) It's does some funky stuff-- the data is stored in a polar format (length, angle) so rotation is really easy (and handled in the drawing hardware). They make what is essentially a binary rate multiplier to provide clock (increment) pulses to the digital counters at the correct rates to draw the lines at the right speed and distance. The only "gotcha" as far as the slew rate is concerned when using it with a Wells Gardner monitor is parallel loads on the counters to the DACs. (Those can make a big deflection fast when the new position is latched in.) Otherwise, the max vector slew rate looks to be something the WG monitors can handle OK. Distortions will kinda depend on the programming then. I'm trying a little game stuff on the system now, so I'll see if I induce any errors when programming. I think for new programs at least it's easy enough to avoid. (Just put some "null" objects in the vector display list that are positioned at the center of the screen. When these are between objects that can move around you'll be sure that you'd not drawing in the bottom right corner and then jump to upper left or something. The null objects (color guns off, but position information intact) force the beam to the center so the next parallel load on the counters can be at most a half-screen jump. For something like "Space War" just draw the sun in between the player ships... ;-) The CPU and Vector generators can be separately clocked, so I had kicked around the idea of dropping the vector draw speed a little to lower the slew rate, but that doesn't help the (possibly large) fast deflections caused by parallel loading the counters. (One advantage of the Atari Analog Vector generator always having to reset the beam to the center of the screen to get to a known location-- it helped keep those long vectors and max-deflection jumps to a minimum...) They have a weird little "protection" mechanism built in for the x/y outputs. They digitally clip the input values to the DACs. I guess it saves the monitor from most "programmer" errors writing big deflections to the DACs, but a failed op-amp or DAC will still make things a bit firey for the average GO-8. :-/ I gave a bunch of info to Al about the clipping regions and everything which I think is in his hardware descriptions on www.spies.com/arcade -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 17:16:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 17:16:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 20:12:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199705030012.UAA12570@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@spies.com From: fishd Subject: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hi Folks, After comparing the schematics for both the Eliminator Sound board (800-3174) and the Zektor Sound board (800-3249) I've found a few components which have different values for each board, these are listed below. The Eliminator snd bd has the reference designations silkscreened on the board so locating the components is fairly easy. Ref Des ELIMINATOR ZEKTOR R5 10K 4.7K R9 33K 12K R71 270K 100K R79 2 MEG unused R122 220K 390K R132 220K 100K C9 0.01uF 0.0047uF C46 0.022uF 0.047uF Now about the missing sounds. The disassembly shows that all four registers on the board (3C, 3D, 3E and 3F) are accessed. I haven't looked real hard at the data being put in them but the very fact that they're all accessed means that the AY-3-8912 should be present. This MAY account for the few missing sounds. I don't have one of these to try out. Mark, do you? David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! dfish@nyx.cs.du.edu | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 17:47:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 17:47:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 2 May 97 17:45 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970502174236.33b75598@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 08:12 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Folks, > > After comparing the schematics for both the Eliminator Sound board >(800-3174) and the Zektor Sound board (800-3249) I've found a few >components which have different values for each board, these are listed >below. The Eliminator snd bd has the reference designations silkscreened >on the board so locating the components is fairly easy. > >Ref Des ELIMINATOR ZEKTOR >R5 10K 4.7K >R9 33K 12K >R71 270K 100K >R79 2 MEG unused >R122 220K 390K >R132 220K 100K >C9 0.01uF 0.0047uF >C46 0.022uF 0.047uF > > Now about the missing sounds. The disassembly shows that all four >registers on the board (3C, 3D, 3E and 3F) are accessed. I haven't >looked real hard at the data being put in them but the very fact that >they're all accessed means that the AY-3-8912 should be present. This >MAY account for the few missing sounds. I don't have one of these to >try out. Mark, do you? David your the man! I've been desperatly asking around (amongnst my local friends) for an Eliminator schematic so I could do just what you did! Thanks! -Zonn BTW: I have a couple of Space Fury audio boards here, (there not mine). The one labeled "Space Fury" has the installed AY-3-8912, and the one labeled "Battle Star" does not. The owner claims the "Space Fury" board sounds better. Fuller sounds. Do you (or anyone) know if Space Fury accesses the AY-3-8912? From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 17:47:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 17:47:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 2 May 97 17:46 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970502174305.2d57fea6@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: multi-game proto board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 05:02 PM 5/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >>So have you tried this? And all you get is the pincushion effect? No >>problem with filling the entire monitor with vectors? That would make life >>easier. Maybe the Sega Vector systems aren't using the full speed >>capabilities of the GO-8 monitors. That would be nice. > >I haven't tried it myself-- others have though and the "distortion" effect >was limited to an occasional miss-placed vector. You could probably drive >the deflection section a little harder, or more likely just live with it. >;-) Well given the limited amount of current available with the +/- 25v supply, how fast you can "charge" (for lack of better word) up the inductor is just a matter of physics. The inductors act like a resistor while it's in a state change. And given a fixed resistance (or in the case of the inductor, reactance) value, the 25 volt power supply limit, limits the maximum current available. For a stronger magnetic effect on the beam you need more current through your yoke. Driving it stronger will just cause it hit maximum speed a little faster. It won't allow you to move the beam any faster than the maximum 25 volts will allow. You end up with a current curve (if graphically mapped) that looks like a clipped sawtooth wave. That harder you drive it, the steeper to slope of the sawtooth, but it's still going to clip at the same place. (This description is not directed towards you, Clay, but to others that may be following this thread.) But from your following explanation it might not be as big a deal as I thought it was... >The only "gotcha" as far as the slew rate is concerned when using it with a >Wells Gardner monitor is parallel loads on the counters to the DACs. >(Those can make a big deflection fast when the new position is latched in.) >Otherwise, the max vector slew rate looks to be something the WG monitors >can handle OK. So it sounds like the real problem is how fast they move to a new screen position to start a new vector. That explains the misplaced vectors. So you can live with misplaced vectors, or crank up the voltage on the WG, or (this might be the hardest, I guess) find yourself a GO-8 monitor (and uh, fix it since you know it's going to be broken). -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 17:51:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 17:51:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 2 May 97 17:50 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970502174726.33b777fc@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: parts cost Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 01:48 PM 5/2/97 -0500, you wrote: >On May 2, 11:04am, Al Kossow wrote: >> Subject: parts cost >> >> Clay said: >> >> "I'm >> going to concentrate on the multi-game hardware/software at this pont, so >> this sound stuff is "up for grabs" as far as I'm concerned. ;-) Whoever >> wants to tackle it can use whatever they want... (Just remember to keep >> the cost down!)" >> >> Considering that the bare board is probably going to be $200, spending >> $100 on parts doesn't seem out of line. > >I realize that this is an exercise in testing your technological limits in >being able to build this, and I realize everyone loves multigames when they >work, but I would think it would be cheaper just to buy the individual sound >boards for each game. > >For example, next week I'll be selling these boards at the following prices: > >Sound boards >------------ >Eliminator/Zektor $20 >Space Fury $25 >Universal Sound board $30 >Speechboards $10 > >So you see, you can get every sound board for every Sega XY game for $85. >I'll even sell them CHEAPER if your willing to take broken ones and fix them >yourself! I'd just like to say that Mark could have made a lot of money off these boards, but decided in advance not to. Need more be said? Mark you a gentleman and a scholar! Thanks! -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 2 19:04:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 1997 19:04:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <336AB88D.1E36@mail.idt.net> Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 21:01:17 -0700 From: mayday19 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Space Fury Cocktail References: <2.2.16.19970502174726.33b777fc@pop3.concentric.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hey all, I am just getting to the SEGA stuff, it certainly seems to be all the rage right now. I figured I need to try something new since I have not messed around with the SEGA stuff much... I found a guy who has 3 space Furys, 1 UR and 2 CTs. he said 1 of the CTs has only 500 plays on it. I am just curious, but are these all that uncommon? I know that other than ST:SOS there are a lot of Space Furys out there, but I have never heard of a CT. I should be picking them up next weekend along with a pile of other vector games, this guy said he had a 4-p eliminator that he might have parted out, so I hope I can dig up the parts for it whle I am there! I also have a set of Eliminator boards I am picking up tomorrow, could any of you guys tell me what the labeling is for the UR, CT, and 4p versions so I can know what kind of set I have here? Thanks, Jeff From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat May 3 04:48:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 3 May 1997 04:47:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 07:44:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199705031144.HAA15559@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: fishd Subject: Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >BTW: I have a couple of Space Fury audio boards here, (there not mine). The >one labeled "Space Fury" has the installed AY-3-8912, and the one labeled >"Battle Star" does not. The owner claims the "Space Fury" board sounds >better. Fuller sounds. Do you (or anyone) know if Space Fury accesses the >AY-3-8912? > There are no accesses to the two register locations (3C & 3D) for the sound chip in the Space Fury code, only the regular parallel latches at 3E and 3F. I would be skeptical of his claim. David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! dfish@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat May 3 07:29:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 3 May 1997 07:25:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 07:25:17 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: another card idea Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I think i've figured out a way to get everything to fit into a 6 slot cage. Using PLCC processors, I think you could fit everything that was on the CPU EPROM and Speech boards onto one card that would replace the CPU board. That way, you would have a CPU, XY timing, XY control and the three sound boards, and could bank switch the speech board code. Analog mux the four sound sources together on the new CPU board, and bring out three decoded card selects onto the backplane onto unused pins to select which sound board to use. It looks like there is a single point on all the sound cards which you could use for board select (u35-6 on space fury, u59-8 on the universal, and u40-8 on eliminator) Do any of the games use the Votrax or the timer stuff shown on the 800-0183 version in the Space Fury manual? It looks like none of that circuitry is even stuffed on the other variants (I also see there are a bunch more I/O addresses that I need to document) ..oh, and it would be cool if we could have a serial interface and RAM, and a 50 pin connector to get to the adr and data bus and... Maybe we don't need a DSP after all :-) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat May 3 09:02:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 3 May 1997 08:58:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 11:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199705031555.LAA26906@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@spies.com From: fishd Subject: Zektor's spoken phrases Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hi guys, Something to whet your appetite. Here's all the phrases that are spoken by Zektor. Voices are both male and female. The male voice sounds like it's the same person who did Space Fury. 0 = no phrase 1 = "So, you've come to take Ascella back" (M) 2 = "I rule Faltar now" (M) 3 = "You'll have to fight for it" (M) 4 = "Centaurus is my world now" (M) 5 = "Sooo... We meet again creature" (M) 6 = "Prepare for battle" (M) 7 = "Warriors needed to defeat alien robots" (F) 8 = "Approaching" (F) 9 = "defense ring" (F) A = "the city" (F) B = "One" (F) C = "Two" (F) D = "Three" (F) E = "Ahhh... Another warrior attempting to regain Baitos" F = "You will not take it from me" (F) 10 = "I have conquered Eridonus" (F) 11 = "Once Deneballa was yours" (F) 12 = "Graffas belongs to me" (F) 13 = "I will never give it back" (F) 14 = no phrase David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! dfish@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat May 3 09:29:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 3 May 1997 09:26:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 09:26:04 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: update to hw doc Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I've just updated the sega hw doc on spies with the zektor phrases, and corrected the port 0xfc info that dave sent out. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sun May 4 18:53:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sun, 4 May 1997 18:53:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 21:49:24 -0400 (EDT) From: David Shuman To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: multi-game proto board In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970502150339.21bfd02c@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Fri, 2 May 1997, Zonn wrote: > There is just one thing though. The difference between the Sega monitors > and WG is more than just level shifting. The Sega monitor is capable of a > faster vector sweep rate. Right. > The WG will not be able to keep up with Sega > vector generator. Right again. But it *almost* can, and the results of using just the level converter alone are quite acceptable (to me, at least)-- just the occasional stray vector. > I haven't tried this but my guess is that in order to see > a non-distorted picture, your going to end up with a shrunkin image centered > on the WG. I *have* tried this, and can confirm that Zonn's guess is correct. But the level at which the slew-rate problem disappears makes the screen annoyingly small--about half-size. > The fix for a WG would be a little involved, but not a lot. I would suggest > parallelled transistors to handle the higher wattages... I've been meaning to try this... it would be great if the upgrade would work using a bunch of 3716's and 3792's. > But mostly it would be changing values here and there to handle > the higher +/- 50 volts. I'm sure there's some sort of arrangement that would allow you to jack up the current without changing the working voltage (somehow I keep thinking of a Darlington arrangement but my analog knowlege is VERY rusty; gonna have to look it up). --Dave-- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 06:43:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 06:42:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 05 May 1997 09:30 EDT To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Gregg Woodcock" Subject: Re: multi-game proto board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In message "Re: multi-game proto board", you write: >So you can live with misplaced vectors, or crank up the voltage on the WG, >or (this might be the hardest, I guess) find yourself a GO-8 monitor (and >uh, fix it since you know it's going to be broken). Just for everybody's information; I have at least 2 of the GO-8 monitors that I'd be willing to sell or trade for other vector stuff. I would also loan them to anybody willing to pay the shipping if it will help any of the projects being worked on. -- THANX...Gregg day 214.684.7380 night UNLIST/PUBL TEXAS NOT CANADA! woodcock@nortel.com or bn202@cleveland.freenet.edu *CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)* "If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 06:51:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 06:51:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Message-Id: <9705051346.AA28856@savage.raleigh.ibm.com> Subject: Re: multi-game proto board To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:46:05 -0400 (EDT) Cc: woodcock@nortel.com In-Reply-To: from "Gregg Woodcock" at May 5, 97 09:30:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 711 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > Just for everybody's information; I have at least 2 of the GO-8 > monitors that I'd be willing to sell or trade for other vector stuff. > I would also loan them to anybody willing to pay the shipping if it > will help any of the projects being worked on. Gregg, What are you looking for (cash or other) that you want for one of the G0-8's? Cash is best for me, as I'm a packrat with my 'good stuff'... :-) John +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John W. Linville To Be, Rather Than To Seem. | | linvjw@vnet.ibm.com http://www4.ncsu.edu/eos/users/j/jwlinvi/www | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 07:13:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 07:13:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705051417.KAA14328@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:09:32 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: fishd "Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds" (May 2, 8:12pm) References: <199705030021.UAA28554@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 2, 8:12pm, fishd wrote: > Subject: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds > Hi Folks, > > After comparing the schematics for both the Eliminator Sound board > (800-3174) and the Zektor Sound board (800-3249) I've found a few > components which have different values for each board, these are listed > below. The Eliminator snd bd has the reference designations silkscreened > on the board so locating the components is fairly easy. > > Ref Des ELIMINATOR ZEKTOR > R5 10K 4.7K > R9 33K 12K > R71 270K 100K > R79 2 MEG unused > R122 220K 390K > R132 220K 100K > C9 0.01uF 0.0047uF > C46 0.022uF 0.047uF > > Now about the missing sounds. The disassembly shows that all four > registers on the board (3C, 3D, 3E and 3F) are accessed. I haven't > looked real hard at the data being put in them but the very fact that > they're all accessed means that the AY-3-8912 should be present. This > MAY account for the few missing sounds. I don't have one of these to > try out. Mark, do you? David, You found out exactly what I found out this weekend. While Eliminator works fine without the AY-3-8912, I ran across one of my boards that actually had one of these chips in it and it dawned on me...does Zektor need this?? Sure enough, I populated by the Eliminator sound board in my Zektor with this chip and the missing sounds were now present! The mystery is solved! Now I've got to update my FAQ again :-( ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 07:17:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 07:17:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705051421.KAA14706@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:13:25 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Zonn "Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds" (May 2, 5:45pm) References: <199705030052.UAA29335@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 2, 5:45pm, Zonn wrote: > Subject: Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds > At 08:12 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi Folks, > > > > After comparing the schematics for both the Eliminator Sound board > >(800-3174) and the Zektor Sound board (800-3249) I've found a few > >components which have different values for each board, these are listed > >below. The Eliminator snd bd has the reference designations silkscreened > >on the board so locating the components is fairly easy. > > > >Ref Des ELIMINATOR ZEKTOR > >R5 10K 4.7K > >R9 33K 12K > >R71 270K 100K > >R79 2 MEG unused > >R122 220K 390K > >R132 220K 100K > >C9 0.01uF 0.0047uF > >C46 0.022uF 0.047uF > > > > Now about the missing sounds. The disassembly shows that all four > >registers on the board (3C, 3D, 3E and 3F) are accessed. I haven't > >looked real hard at the data being put in them but the very fact that > >they're all accessed means that the AY-3-8912 should be present. This > >MAY account for the few missing sounds. I don't have one of these to > >try out. Mark, do you? > > David your the man! I've been desperatly asking around (amongnst my local > friends) for an Eliminator schematic so I could do just what you did! > > Thanks! > > -Zonn > > BTW: I have a couple of Space Fury audio boards here, (there not mine). The > one labeled "Space Fury" has the installed AY-3-8912, and the one labeled > "Battle Star" does not. The owner claims the "Space Fury" board sounds > better. Fuller sounds. Do you (or anyone) know if Space Fury accesses the > AY-3-8912? Space Fury doesn't need the AY-3-8912 for any of it's sounds, but I've never seen a board actually LABELED "Space Fury", I've only seen "Battle Star". Of course, there is a "Meatball" and "Eliminator" sound boards which are the same that I've seen, but I don't think we should start searching for a Sega XY game called "Meatball" just yet ;-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 07:22:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 07:22:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Fish, David" To: "vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com" Subject: RE: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 10:18:48 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >>While Eliminator works fine without the AY-3-8912, I ran across one of my >>boards that actually had one of these chips in it and it dawned on me...does >>Zektor need this?? > >>Sure enough, I populated by the Eliminator sound board in my Zektor with >>this >>chip and the missing sounds were now present! The mystery is solved! Great. Now the big question, where do we get these old GI AY-3-8912's ? The 8910's are fairly common but not the 12's. Any other boards out there use them? Dave > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 07:47:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 07:47:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705051451.KAA17969@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:43:10 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: mayday19 "Space Fury Cocktail" (May 2, 9:01pm) References: <2.2.16.19970502174726.33b777fc@pop3.concentric.net> <199705030211.WAA01389@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Space Fury Cocktail Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 2, 9:01pm, mayday19 wrote: > Subject: Space Fury Cocktail > Hey all, > > I am just getting to the SEGA stuff, it certainly seems to be all the > rage right now. I figured I need to try something new since I have not > messed around with the SEGA stuff much... So you want to try out Sega XY stuff? You are a glutton for punishment! ;-) > I found a guy who has 3 space Furys, 1 UR and 2 CTs. he said 1 of the > CTs has only 500 plays on it. I am just curious, but are these all that > uncommon? I know that other than ST:SOS there are a lot of Space Furys > out there, but I have never heard of a CT. The cocktail Sega XY games are not too very common, so definitely grab these. I'd love to find out more about their monitors, since I know the chassis is modified so it can fit in a cocktail cabinet. > I should be picking them up > next weekend along with a pile of other vector games, this guy said he > had a 4-p eliminator that he might have parted out, so I hope I can dig > up the parts for it whle I am there! Ooo! Ooo! I'd be interested in the 4-player Eliminator parts! I'm always looking for a yellow and red control panel that's in better condition than mine! Also, see if he has the cool high impact promotional canopy for the game! I'd love to get one of these! I'd be happy with just a marquee! > I also have a set of Eliminator boards I am picking up tomorrow, could > any of you guys tell me what the labeling is for the UR, CT, and 4p > versions so I can know what kind of set I have here? If you look at the EPROM board, here's what you should see: EPROM range Game --------------------- 1200 1212 Eliminator cocktail 1333 1345 Eliminator upright 1347 1360 Eliminator 4-player Good luck on your acquisitions! More than likely you'll have problems with these, so let me know if you need any help (repair, boards, tips, FAQ...) ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 10:00:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 10:00:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 5 May 97 09:59 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970505095613.0fcfac98@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: multi-game proto board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 09:49 PM 5/4/97 -0400, David wrote: > Fri, 2 May 1997, Zonn wrote: > >> But mostly it would be changing values here and there to handle >> the higher +/- 50 volts. > >I'm sure there's some sort of arrangement that would allow you to jack up >the current without changing the working voltage (somehow I keep thinking >of a Darlington arrangement but my analog knowlege is VERY rusty; gonna >have to look it up). No, sorry Dave, it doesn't work that way (too bad huh?). In order for you to get more current through the Yoke you must either raise the voltages across the windings, or lower the inductance of the yoke. So unless you're up for re-winding you're yoke, you're going to have to increase the voltages. A darlington is used where more current gain is needed. The amount of current a transistor passes, is proportional to the amount of current you pump into it. And this is dependent upon the gain of the transistor. So if your using something that puts out only small amounts of current (like an op amp) and you want to use it to control a large amount of current, you can use a darlington arrangement to amplify the meager currents of the op amp, to the high currents needing controlling. Unfortunately those currents are still controlled by the maximum voltage you can place across the load, and the value of the load itself. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 10:15:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 10:15:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: parts cost Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 09:53:46 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >From: Zonn[SMTP:zonn@concentric.net] >Sent: Friday, May 02, 1997 7:50 PM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Re: parts cost > >At 01:48 PM 5/2/97 -0500, you wrote: >>On May 2, 11:04am, Al Kossow wrote: >>> Subject: parts cost >>> >>> Clay said: >>> >>> "I'm >>> going to concentrate on the multi-game hardware/software at this pont, so >>> this sound stuff is "up for grabs" as far as I'm concerned. ;-) Whoever >>> wants to tackle it can use whatever they want... (Just remember to keep >>> the cost down!)" >>> >>> Considering that the bare board is probably going to be $200, spending >>> $100 on parts doesn't seem out of line. >> >>I realize that this is an exercise in testing your technological limits in >>being able to build this, and I realize everyone loves multigames when they >>work, but I would think it would be cheaper just to buy the individual sound >>boards for each game. >> >>For example, next week I'll be selling these boards at the following prices: >> >>Sound boards >>------------ >>Eliminator/Zektor $20 >>Space Fury $25 >>Universal Sound board $30 >>Speechboards $10 >> >>So you see, you can get every sound board for every Sega XY game for $85. >>I'll even sell them CHEAPER if your willing to take broken ones and fix them >>yourself! >: >: >: >;I'd just like to say that Mark could have made a lot of money off these >:boards, but decided in advance not to. Need more be said? >: >:Mark you a gentleman and a scholar! Without a doubt, RGVAC is what it is today because of people like Mark! Besides all the work he's been doing on Sega stuff, he's been a motivating part of the KLOV team!! Now if I could just convince him to be KLOV keeper... ObVectorStuff: With all this discussion about vector drawing, I though I should mention Quantum with its curved lines? Since each line in the curve starts where the last one ended, I doubt they had to worry about moving the beam around quickly. However, the Quantum folks still had ALOT of vectors to draw with that WG. Is there something that can be learned from that? Maybe someone has already considered Quantum...I just recently got on the vectorlist email list. Another item that may have been explained earlier was "slew rate". I followed most of the discussion of how the hardware behaves while drawing vectors, but could someone spend a moment to describe "slew rate" in layman's terms? (I don't think I need much more than a few sentences explanation.) Thanks again, if "slew rate" has been discussed/described before and I'm asking us to cover old ground again. >: >:Thanks! >: >:-Zonn > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 10:24:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 10:24:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705051728.NAA05067@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 12:20:25 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: "Ozdemir, Steve" "RE: parts cost" (May 5, 9:53am) References: <199705051719.NAA04205@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: parts cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 5, 9:53am, Ozdemir, Steve wrote: > Subject: RE: parts cost > > > >From: Zonn[SMTP:zonn@concentric.net] > >Sent: Friday, May 02, 1997 7:50 PM > >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >Subject: Re: parts cost > > > >At 01:48 PM 5/2/97 -0500, you wrote: > >>On May 2, 11:04am, Al Kossow wrote: > >>> Subject: parts cost > >>> > >>> Clay said: > >>> > >>> "I'm > >>> going to concentrate on the multi-game hardware/software at this pont, so > >>> this sound stuff is "up for grabs" as far as I'm concerned. ;-) Whoever > >>> wants to tackle it can use whatever they want... (Just remember to keep > >>> the cost down!)" > >>> > >>> Considering that the bare board is probably going to be $200, spending > >>> $100 on parts doesn't seem out of line. > >> > >>I realize that this is an exercise in testing your technological limits in > >>being able to build this, and I realize everyone loves multigames when they > >>work, but I would think it would be cheaper just to buy the individual sound > >>boards for each game. > >> > >>For example, next week I'll be selling these boards at the following prices: > >> > >>Sound boards > >>------------ > >>Eliminator/Zektor $20 > >>Space Fury $25 > >>Universal Sound board $30 > >>Speechboards $10 > >> > >>So you see, you can get every sound board for every Sega XY game for $85. > >>I'll even sell them CHEAPER if your willing to take broken ones and fix them > >>yourself! > >: > >: > >: > >;I'd just like to say that Mark could have made a lot of money off these > >:boards, but decided in advance not to. Need more be said? > >: > >:Mark you a gentleman and a scholar! > Without a doubt, RGVAC is what it is today because of people like Mark! Oh, stop *blush* ;-) Everyone knows I'm just on this newsgroup to make a buck ;-) ;-) ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 11:01:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 11:01:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 11:03:23 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: WG Monitor experiments... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com clay wrote: >>The only "gotcha" as far as the slew rate is concerned when using it with a >>Wells Gardner monitor is parallel loads on the counters to the DACs. >>(Those can make a big deflection fast when the new position is latched in.) >>Otherwise, the max vector slew rate looks to be something the WG monitors >>can handle OK. > zonn wrote: > > >So it sounds like the real problem is how fast they move to a new screen >position to start a new vector. That explains the misplaced vectors. > >So you can live with misplaced vectors, or crank up the voltage on the WG, >or (this might be the hardest, I guess) find yourself a GO-8 monitor (and >uh, fix it since you know it's going to be broken). Ok, I did some tinkering this weekend in between building a brick retaining wall for the garden. ;-) I made an adapter to hook up the G-80 cage to the Wells Gardner monitor and experiment a bit. (I took the design from... was it Dave Shuman's? description without modification. Just a non-inverting op-amp for each channel. I powered the opamps from +-12Vdc off the G-80 main board.) I tried both Space Fury and Star Trek on the WG Color monitor. They worked fine, although there was the occasional "misplaced" vector. I'm 99% sure that the vector "misplacements" are just due to the WG not being able to keep up on a big deflection when the DAC counters get a parallel load. For grins I tried a bunch of different op-amps and (of course) nothing changed. (The "problem" isn't with the convertor.) TL082, TL072, LM353, a bunch of weird TI stuff all work fine. (Deflection speeds are really quite slow by op-amp standards-- I was just desoldering op-amps from an old Paradyne 1200 bps modem and sticking then in... All worked fine. ;-) Anyway, I'm going to look into it some more, but like I said-- I think the problem's just in the big loads to the counters. For example: 1) The "misplaced vector" always appears in the same objects. (The "C" in CREDITS on Star Trek, the player score in Space Fury, etc.) 2) It's always on the first stroke of an object. (The Klingon battle cruiser in the demo-mode on Star Trek and the "C" in Credits are the first vectors in the vector list.) The effect makes sense when you see it and think about it. If you're drawing a "C" that should look like: +------ | | | +------ But what you get is: / / / | | | +----- I think we're just seeing the beam getting turned on and the first stroke started before the deflection had a chance to reach the beginning of the character and settle. I'm going to "freeze" the display list and dump the contents tomorrow night, and try another experiment too... In theory, (with the vector generator running) if I just change the position of the object to be closer to the last location of the beam, the problem should disappear. (Since the deflection is less.) I wonder if there isn't a way to force a couple of "wait" states in the vector generator on every parallel load to the counters? What if we added a little logic that would basically eat a few (N?) clock pulses after the DAC counter latches tripped to give the WG a couple more uS to get the beam there? Something like: Vector Clock---------> Tristate buffer ----------> Vector generator | ^ | | | pullup v | Count to N counter ------------+ ^ (enable) | | Counter latch signal As long as the vector generator can still complete a full pass through the display list in 1/40th second the game will still "play" the same... Any ideas? Oh, one other thing. It looks like the effect is always the the "Y" deflection isn't making it in time-- the x positioning looks ok... Hmmmm... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 11:14:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 11:13:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 11:15:48 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Great. Now the big question, where do we get these old GI AY-3-8912's ? >The 8910's are fairly common but not the 12's. Any other boards out >there >use them? Ummmmm... The Vectrex. :-) There were a few 80's style 8-bit computers, but not much else. I turned a parts broker aquiantance loose looking for them a few minutes ago. I'll let you all know what I/he finds. If worse comes to worse we could always do a little adapter board for an 8910. (like those AM-6012 boards I did a while back if any of you got those...) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 11:39:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 11:38:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <336E2858.3EEA@an.hp.com> Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 14:35:04 -0400 From: Joel Rosenzweig Organization: Hewlett-Packard Medical Products Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: G-80 Multigame... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Clay Cowgill wrote: > 1) Buy a Multi-game board for $99 that allowed you to play (on one machine): > > Star Trek > Zektor > Space Fury > Eliminator > Tac Scan > > But without "sound effects" for Space Fury, Eliminator/Zektor unless you > buy a sound board for those specifically? > Clay, Ok, I'm not *trying* to be clueless here, so bear with me. :-) What else, if anything, does one need in addition to the above board to play the above games? Is the board you are developing new hardware that runs the original code, or is it an add on board that you use in conjunction with at least one original set of game boards? Sorry for the dumb question, but I didn't want to get excited over the wrong thing. Joel- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 11:41:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 11:40:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 5 May 97 11:39 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970505113614.491fb920@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 09:13 AM 5/5/97 -0500, you wrote: >On May 2, 5:45pm, Zonn wrote: >> Subject: Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds >> At 08:12 PM 5/2/97 -0400, you wrote: >> >Hi Folks, >> > >> > After comparing the schematics for both the Eliminator Sound board >> >(800-3174) and the Zektor Sound board (800-3249) I've found a few >> >components which have different values for each board, these are listed >> >below. The Eliminator snd bd has the reference designations silkscreened >> >on the board so locating the components is fairly easy. >> > >> >Ref Des ELIMINATOR ZEKTOR >> >R5 10K 4.7K >> >R9 33K 12K >> >R71 270K 100K >> >R79 2 MEG unused >> >R122 220K 390K >> >R132 220K 100K >> >C9 0.01uF 0.0047uF >> >C46 0.022uF 0.047uF >> > >> > Now about the missing sounds. The disassembly shows that all four >> >registers on the board (3C, 3D, 3E and 3F) are accessed. I haven't >> >looked real hard at the data being put in them but the very fact that >> >they're all accessed means that the AY-3-8912 should be present. This >> >MAY account for the few missing sounds. I don't have one of these to >> >try out. Mark, do you? >> >> David your the man! I've been desperatly asking around (amongnst my local >> friends) for an Eliminator schematic so I could do just what you did! >> >> Thanks! >> >> -Zonn >> >> BTW: I have a couple of Space Fury audio boards here, (there not mine). The >> one labeled "Space Fury" has the installed AY-3-8912, and the one labeled >> "Battle Star" does not. The owner claims the "Space Fury" board sounds >> better. Fuller sounds. Do you (or anyone) know if Space Fury accesses the >> AY-3-8912? > >Space Fury doesn't need the AY-3-8912 for any of it's sounds, but I've never >seen a board actually LABELED "Space Fury", I've only seen "Battle Star". Of >course, there is a "Meatball" and "Eliminator" sound boards which are the same >that I've seen, but I don't think we should start searching for a Sega XY game >called "Meatball" just yet ;-) The "Space Fury" board came from a Space Fury cocktail. The nice thing about it is that the area for the "AY-3-8912" contains a layout for the "8912" and the "8910". The only immediate differences I saw between the boards was that instead of "Battle Star", the words "Space Fury" appeared. And the addition of the 8910 layout in parallel with the 8912. So the question is: Why would Sega go through the trouble of re-laying out the board to allow both the 8910 and the 8912 to be used, at the same time changing the name to Space Fury (so it's not like they were doing it for a different game destined to use the same sound card), and then not do anything with the sound chip? The board came populated with the sound chip and it's seems doubtful that some previous owner would have gone through the trouble of digging up a sound chip just for the sake of having one stuck in there (but who knows huh?). So I'm wondering if anyone has looked at the *Cocktail* ROMs to see if maybe some 8912 (or 8910) sounds are being used there, as opposed to the stand up version? The two who told me of the differences in sound are IMHO reliable sources. But then again the differences may be in the components used in the analog sections of the cards. These may have changed at the same time the name was changed from Battle Star to Space Fury. The Cocktail Space Fury belongs to Gaymond, and I'm sure I could get at the sound board to take a closer look at it, the game sits in a state of dis-array in Bill's garage. (Yes Bill I will get some of those games working and out of your garage!) -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 11:43:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 11:43:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 11:44:45 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: another card idea Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >I think i've figured out a way to get everything to fit into a 6 slot cage. >Using PLCC processors, I think you could fit everything that was on the CPU >EPROM and Speech boards onto one card that would replace the CPU board. Hmmmmm. That's a thought. I was thinking of combining the CPU and EPROM cards. (Since the EPROMs basically condense to 1 27020 or 2 27010's...) What could we do... The Z80 in a 40plcc is probably the easiest to find. (Did they ever make a PLCC plain old z80?) The SEC goes away, the boot EPROM goes away, the 2114's can be condensed to a single 6116. The clock could go away (it's only used when the XY boards are missing). Most of the decode could be done in a 16L8 or two. That leaves bus drivers, and the input stuff? That should fit either the multigame eprom or the voice on the same board, IMHO. I'd prefer to keep the voice stuff on it's own card just because the EPROM/CPU combo would be digital only which is a little easier to design around... >..oh, and it would be cool if we could have a serial interface and RAM, and >a 50 pin connector to get to the adr and data bus and... :-) The Z-80 SIO and RS232 stuff will take a little room, but maybe it'd be smart to just make that a daughtercard (on the 50 pin bus connector :-) and not burden all the designs with it. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 12:02:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 12:01:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Fish, David" To: "vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com" Subject: RE: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:58:18 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >>So I'm wondering if anyone has looked at the *Cocktail* ROMs to see if maybe >>some 8912 (or 8910) sounds are being used there, as opposed to the stand up >>version? > Supply me with a copy of the set and I'll look into it. Dave From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 12:28:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 12:28:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705051931.PAA16709@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:23:39 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: "Fish, David" "RE: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds" (May 5, 2:58pm) References: <199705051906.PAA14200@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com All, Do to David's and I's realization that Zektor needs the AY-3-8912 chip to get all the sounds, and the fact that most of the Eliminator boards I have have this socket unpopulated, I'll need to know from the following people if they need to have their Eliminator sound board populated with this chip or not. Needs to be populated if you can play Zektor, doesn't need it if you're using it for just Eliminator. Al K. Zonn M. Clay C. Michael S. Jeff H. I may not have enough of these chips to go around, so if you need if populated, I'll need an additional $10 for a populated board (unless someone can point me to a cheaper source for them). Sorry for the inconvenience. If you'd like, you can buy one without the chip for $20 and populate it yourself (or make an adapter type thing for a 8910...). Please let me know which board you want. ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 13:09:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 13:09:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 5 May 97 13:08 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970505130506.4c97cfae@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: RE: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 02:58 PM 5/5/97 -0400, you wrote: >> >>>So I'm wondering if anyone has looked at the *Cocktail* ROMs to see if maybe >>>some 8912 (or 8910) sounds are being used there, as opposed to the stand up >>>version? >> >Supply me with a copy of the set and I'll look into it. You got it, but it's going to be about a week before I can get a copy. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 13:10:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 13:10:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:05:53 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >---------- >From: Zonn[SMTP:zonn@concentric.net] >Sent: Monday, May 05, 1997 1:39 PM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds >The Cocktail Space Fury belongs to Gaymond, and I'm sure I could get at the >sound board to take a closer look at it, the game sits in a state of >dis-array in Bill's garage. > >(Yes Bill I will get some of those games working and out of your garage!) > >-Zonn Is it me, or is this email list starting to seem more like a newsgroup? This may be an active period given the recent Zector discovery/investigation, however given that RGVAC is on the verge of having a Sega (and possibly Cinematronics) development environment to make new games on, perhaps we'll have this much discussion (10 emails/day) in the future as people create new games? What do you all think? RGVAC.vector?? ps - There's more than a few vector topics waiting in the wings. Designing and manufacturing a universal vector monitor. Cinematronics motherboard repair using signature analysis. Merging analog sound boards. And I'm sure there are plenty of other obstac..topics before the goal of a JAMMA-like vector cabinet that plays everything is achieved. That is what we are working towards, right? (I do realize that there's a desire to collect original dedicated units, too, but I feel this need of the collecting community is best served by RGVAC.) > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 13:14:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 13:14:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:16:20 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: G-80 Multigame... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Ok, I'm not *trying* to be clueless here, so bear with me. :-) > >What else, if anything, does one need in addition to the above board to >play the above games? Is the board you are developing new hardware that >runs the original code, or is it an add on board that you use in >conjunction with at least one original set of game boards? Basically you'll want a complete G-80 game. (Could be Star Trek, Space, Fury, whatever.) The current plan (there's getting to be a lot of permutations depending on what we can pull off) is to make a board that replaces the EPROM board in the cage. You'll remove the security chip and EPROM on the CPU board, remove the EPROM board, and plug in the new board. That will give you a game that boots as a regular G-80 game, but if you hold down the P1 and P2 start buttons it will go to a menu screen that lets you select one of the games to play. You choose the game and it runs. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 13:52:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 13:52:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:54:05 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Is it me, or is this email list starting to seem more like a newsgroup? >This may be an active period given the recent Zector >discovery/investigation, however given that RGVAC is on the verge of >having a Sega (and possibly Cinematronics) development environment to >make new games on, perhaps we'll have this much discussion (10 >emails/day) in the future as people create new games? I'm sure the traffic right now is due to the Zektor find and the concurrent G-80 projects that are going on, but it seems like we've been keeping up the volume for a while... >What do you all think? RGVAC.vector?? Hmmmm. I can see good points and bad points there-- it would give the vector stuff a home, but it might lose some of the focus we manage to keep on the mailing list. (I suppose a good generic Vector FAQ that answered how the multi-games worked, what games were made by who, how much tempest goes for, etc... would keep the common stuff at bay...) >ps - There's more than a few vector topics waiting in the wings. >Designing and manufacturing a universal vector monitor. Glad to see this one still around! I think it's a must! >Cinematronics >motherboard repair using signature analysis. Merging analog sound >boards. And I'm sure there are plenty of other obstac..topics before >the goal of a JAMMA-like vector cabinet that plays everything is >achieved. That is what we are working towards, right? If I can get the new ESB/SW boards and G-80 stuff out of the way I can get back to my RetroVector board too, which would provide another platform... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 13:59:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 13:59:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:59:33 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: G80 speech board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I've been talking to Clay about adding the functionality of the speech board to the CPU board to get the total number of cards needed for a multigame to 6, so you could fit it into a normal card cage. On the Trek board set that I have, they didn't populate the Votrax speech generator or the timer stuff, so I had assumed that the other two games with speech didn't use it either. If this is in fact true, it makes the functionality of the speech board REALLY easy (essentially just an 8035 and a DAC). If you set up a banks-switched EPROM for the speech for the three existing games, you've esentally squished 5 boards into one, and everything should fit in 6 slots (cpu,ctl,timing, and 3 sound boards). From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 14:08:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 14:08:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705052111.RAA26018@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:03:02 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: aek@motgate.mot.com (Al Kossow) "G80 speech board" (May 5, 1:59pm) References: <199705052104.RAA25362@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: G80 speech board Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 5, 1:59pm, Al Kossow wrote: > Subject: G80 speech board > > I've been talking to Clay about adding the functionality of the speech > board to the CPU board to get the total number of cards needed for a > multigame to 6, so you could fit it into a normal card cage. On the Trek > board set that I have, they didn't populate the Votrax speech generator > or the timer stuff, so I had assumed that the other two games with speech > didn't use it either. If this is in fact true, it makes the functionality > of the speech board REALLY easy (essentially just an 8035 and a DAC). > If you set up a banks-switched EPROM for the speech for the three existing > games, you've esentally squished 5 boards into one, and everything should > fit in 6 slots (cpu,ctl,timing, and 3 sound boards). I must be missing something...so the EPROM, CPU AND speech board are smashed into one board? I can see the EPROM and speech board smashed into one, and I suppose if you put the game data one two EPROMs you could smash it onto the CPU board some how. So how do you propose to do the 3 sound boards? Somehow switch one of the three slots on or off (if so, how do you handle the sound harness? You can't have it connected to all three at once, right?) Or a manual step to pull out two and push in one? Inquiring minds want to know. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 14:11:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 14:11:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:12:58 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: G80 speech board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Al writes: >On the Trek >board set that I have, they didn't populate the Votrax speech generator >or the timer stuff, so I had assumed that the other two games with speech >didn't use it either. If this is in fact true, it makes the functionality >of the speech board REALLY easy (essentially just an 8035 and a DAC). Can anyone else confirm this configuration for either Space Fury or Star Trek? I've only seen G-80 boards with the Orator speech chips (I've seen this on 4 Star Trek sets and one Astro Blaster) populated, but this is *very* cool if there are versions without the Orator! It looks like the Orator chips were fairly rare (esp. now!), so if we can work around that that is EXCELLENT news! -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 14:22:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 14:22:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705052125.RAA27382@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 16:17:37 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "Re: G80 speech board" (May 5, 2:12pm) References: <199705052115.RAA26346@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: G80 speech board Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 5, 2:12pm, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Subject: Re: G80 speech board > Al writes: > > >On the Trek > >board set that I have, they didn't populate the Votrax speech generator > >or the timer stuff, so I had assumed that the other two games with speech > >didn't use it either. If this is in fact true, it makes the functionality > >of the speech board REALLY easy (essentially just an 8035 and a DAC). > > Can anyone else confirm this configuration for either Space Fury or Star Trek? > > I've only seen G-80 boards with the Orator speech chips (I've seen this on > 4 Star Trek sets and one Astro Blaster) populated, but this is *very* cool > if there are versions without the Orator! > > It looks like the Orator chips were fairly rare (esp. now!), so if we can > work around that that is EXCELLENT news! Let me know what to look for and I can do some checking. I have like 60+ speech boards I can reference from all types of Sega Converta games... ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 14:26:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 14:26:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:25:57 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: G80 speech board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com There are spare bussed lines on the backplane. The I/O decodes can be picked off just after the I/O address decoder on each sound board and brought down to three unused bussed lines on the backplane. Decode the I/O adr for the sound board on the CPU card based on I/O adr and desired sound card. You also have to mix the outputs of the speech and the three sound cards together, which could be done on the new CPU card. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 14:50:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 14:50:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:52:25 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: G80 speech board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Let me know what to look for and I can do some checking. I have like 60+ >speech boards I can reference from all types of Sega Converta games... Cool! Ok, the "stock" speech board has an 8035 processor with at least one 2716 EPROM (the code for the 8035) and then a few more EPROMs (usually 3-4) that are 2732's that store the speech data. There's an SPO-250 "Orator" speech chip (28 pins?) and some op-amps and stuff. We're interested in any variations on this theme, particularly a speech board without the "Orator" chip, that might just have a DAC instead. (What kind of DAC, Al? A 1408, or DAC08 or something?) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 15:01:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 15:01:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 15:01:18 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: G80 speech board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com the DAC (?) is listed as a ST-32034 which i'm guessing is a TI 32K series part (lpc decoder?) the board numbers for Trek and Zektor are 800-0294 and it is a single sheet schematic. the one for Space Fury is 800-0183 and has a second sheet with the votrax and timer (and stereo sound mux) Since Zektor doesn't appear to have the extra stuff, the remaining question is if Space Fury used it. I'll double-check my disassembly, but I don't remember seeing any I/O references to anything other than the 8035.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 15:12:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 15:12:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <214B7591E38CCF11833400805FD4D17301527A86@RED-95-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> From: "David Shoemaker (RhoTech)" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: G-80 Multigame... Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 14:34:21 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.14) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >Ok, I'm not *trying* to be clueless here, so bear with me. :-) > > > >What else, if anything, does one need in addition to the above board > to > >play the above games? Is the board you are developing new hardware > that > >runs the original code, or is it an add on board that you use in > >conjunction with at least one original set of game boards? > > Basically you'll want a complete G-80 game. (Could be Star Trek, > Space, > Fury, whatever.) > > The current plan (there's getting to be a lot of permutations > depending on > what we can pull off) is to make a board that replaces the EPROM board > in > the cage. You'll remove the security chip and EPROM on the CPU board, > remove the EPROM board, and plug in the new board. That will give you > a > game that boots as a regular G-80 game, but if you hold down the P1 > and P2 > start buttons it will go to a menu screen that lets you select one of > the > games to play. You choose the game and it runs. > Just let me know where to send the $. This would be a dream come true. I have to assume that the Horizontal / Vertical game issue is just a matter of rotating the monitor or dealing with playing Tac Scan on its side. Or did I miss something and someone had a more elegant solution? David From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 15:31:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 15:31:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 18:14:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Ed Henciak X-Sender: ethst3@unixs6.cis.pitt.edu To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: G-80 Multigame... In-Reply-To: <214B7591E38CCF11833400805FD4D17301527A86@RED-95-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com For the Tac-Scan vertical issue, swapping the X and Y deflection would do the trick..some logic could be added to handle this I guess... On Mon, 5 May 1997, David Shoemaker (RhoTech) wrote: > > >Ok, I'm not *trying* to be clueless here, so bear with me. :-) > > > > > >What else, if anything, does one need in addition to the above board > > to > > >play the above games? Is the board you are developing new hardware > > that > > >runs the original code, or is it an add on board that you use in > > >conjunction with at least one original set of game boards? > > > > Basically you'll want a complete G-80 game. (Could be Star Trek, > > Space, > > Fury, whatever.) > > > > The current plan (there's getting to be a lot of permutations > > depending on > > what we can pull off) is to make a board that replaces the EPROM board > > in > > the cage. You'll remove the security chip and EPROM on the CPU board, > > remove the EPROM board, and plug in the new board. That will give you > > a > > game that boots as a regular G-80 game, but if you hold down the P1 > > and P2 > > start buttons it will go to a menu screen that lets you select one of > > the > > games to play. You choose the game and it runs. > > > Just let me know where to send the $. This would be a dream come true. > I have to assume that the Horizontal / Vertical game issue is just a > matter of rotating the monitor or dealing with playing Tac Scan on its > side. Or did I miss something and someone had a more elegant solution? > > David > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 15:31:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 15:31:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 18:11:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Ed Henciak X-Sender: ethst3@unixs6.cis.pitt.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: G80 speech board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hello, I was just going over Clay's message about speech boards. I have 2 Star Trek sets...each, I believe, different in the socket where the 'Orator, is located... On board labeled 800-3308 A, there is a chip in the 'Orator' socket with the number 783-4043-002. The logo on the chip looks like this... ----------- | | | | | ---- | | | | | | | ----------- next to this 'GI...and it is that rectangular, unlike the orator's "curvy" GI... is the number 8048 CCA and TAIWAN. On my other board, which has a handwritten 800-3308 REV D, the chip clearly says SPO250 ORATOR. and the logo is clearly a GI with the numbers 8136 CCA TAIWAN I'd love to let you guys know if there is any difference in sounds, etc., but I am having one hell of a time getting my monitor to work, and there is much static in the audio (my boards are working though). If I can wire up some mock coin mechanisms, I'll let you know how sounds compare. My monitor currently is displayin a bright dot in the center with some nice, small, blue squigglies!! Anyway, if it would help to donate the board/chip to a Sega Multigame cause, let me know...just return it when finished!!! Oh, the number of EEPROMS are the same on Star Trek's speech...3. And one more thing I just noticed...on the board I have without the ORATOR, there is a national semiconductor 8039 (exact numbers are 014C INS8039N-6 /P8039-6)...on the board with the ORATOR there is an Intel P8035HL L2468201. Hope this helps!!! Thanks Ed From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 15:32:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 15:32:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 15:34:27 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: G80 speech board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >the DAC (?) is listed as a ST-32034 which i'm guessing is a TI 32K >series part (lpc decoder?) Ahhhhh. That's what you mean by DAC. :-) That's probably not quite as good of news then if it's still an LPC coder. I can't find any mention of the 32034 in my files. Anyone else have any ideas? (It's curious to note that there should appear to exist a pin-compatible equivalent of the SP0250 "Orator" chip though. Hey Jess-- Wanna try running some Sega sound chunks through a TMS5220 and see if the LPC coding is the same? -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 15:53:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 15:53:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 15:55:51 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: G80 speech board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >----------- >| | >| | >| ---- | >| | | >| | | >----------- Kinda looks like a "GI" logo to me... >next to this 'GI...and it is that rectangular, unlike the orator's "curvy" >GI... is the number 8048 CCA and TAIWAN. Hmmmm. Could just be a manufacturer's number I suppose. >And one more thing I just noticed...on the board I have >without the ORATOR, there is a national semiconductor 8039 (exact numbers >are 014C INS8039N-6 /P8039-6)...on the board with the ORATOR there is >an Intel P8035HL L2468201. Hope this helps!!! Thanks Huh. That's interesting. I don't know the 8035/9 off the top of my head, so it might just be an internal/external ROM thing. I'll try to remember to look it up. I started thinking about that 32034 number that Al saw. That sure looks like a TI DSP to me. I'd suspect the 320C3x family. Weird. They had inboard ROM and it's quite possible it was just running an LPC algorithm. I always thought that the Orator sounded like LPC, but was never able to really confirm it. This was some e-mail between me (the ">" part and the guy that designed the TMS5220 "--" the LPC chip Atari used in Star Wars and Gauntlet, etc...) >I have a kind-of trivia question for you. Since you've been doing voice >compression for quite a while I wonder if you ever ran across or knew >anything about the General Instruments SPO-250 "Orator" chip. The >SPO-256AL2 was their little phoneme synth that was used in quite a few >gizmo's of the early 80's (maybe the Intellivision Voice module I think), >but the Orator was used in some Sega Arcade games (like Star Trek) and >sounded *very* nice for the era. I assumed that it was some form of LPC >since the voices didn't really sound digitized like an ADPCM or something. >Very faint "robotic" overtones sometimes on vowels... Any thoughts? > -- I definitely remember the name and number, and I'm pretty sure that I've --seen a spec sheet for it. The memories are faint (and not just about speech --stuff!), but I think this was a formant synthesizer. The SP0256 was --essentially the same part preprogrammed with a phoneme/allophone set. At --the time, formant synthesizers were the clear favorites for doing --text-to-speech. Conventional wisdom was that "they" would have the kinks --worked out of TTS in short order and then there would be no need for voice --coders- at least for playback-only systems. Co-incidentally, that was about --the time one of my partners here started on his 8-year TTS research project --at CNET in France. In spite of being one of the world's best systems at the --time, neither it nor the others have ever really been good enough for the --big time-- Michel refuses to touch the stuff now! -- Back to the 0250; the problem for formant synthesizers in that period was --(the lack of) automatic formant tracking. As it happens, the most popular --filter control parameters these days are line spectrum pairs (of --frequencies- LSPs) which come pretty close to tracking what a shadetree --like myself would consider to be formants, though this time around, no one --pretends that there's a one-to-one relationship. Sorry-- got carried away --there..... Hmmmm. Beats the hell out of me. :-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 16:01:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 16:01:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705052305.TAA05839@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:56:53 -0500 From: Mark Jenison X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Zektor codes?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Off the topic of hardware for a minute... My friends and I have been playing Zektor for a while and noticed that each city has some hidden letters in the cities. Ascella -- E Baitos -- I and H Centurius -- S and L Denebala -- A and W Eridonus -- K and Y Faltar -- O and R Graffas -- E ??? -- haven't gotten here yet. Just a neat little piece of trivia there. I wonder if there's a message, or if it's the designers initials, or ???. Anyone have a scrabble program they can run this through?? ;-) ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 17:11:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 17:11:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Message-Id: <9705052143.AA30650@savage.raleigh.ibm.com> Subject: Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:43:09 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199705051931.PAA16709@po_box.cig.mot.com> from "Mark Jenison" at May 5, 97 02:23:39 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 972 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > Do to David's and I's realization that Zektor needs the AY-3-8912 chip to get > all the sounds, and the fact that most of the Eliminator boards I have have > this socket unpopulated, I'll need to know from the following people if they > need to have their Eliminator sound board populated with this chip or not. > Needs to be populated if you can play Zektor, doesn't need it if you're using > it for just Eliminator. All right, I'll ask a stupid question. How would people play Zektor anyway without the special chip? Is there a way to play it without the special chip? Or were there always plenty of the Zektor special chips and just no good ROM images of Zektor? John +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John W. Linville To Be, Rather Than To Seem. | | linvjw@vnet.ibm.com http://www4.ncsu.edu/eos/users/j/jwlinvi/www | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 17:42:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 17:42:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 20:30:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Ed Henciak X-Sender: ethst3@unixs4.cis.pitt.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Question about Zanen's G08 Cap kit... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hello there, Sorry to seem off topic about the multigame stuff, but I missed the discussion earlier on RGVAC about the Zanen cap kit for the G08. What exactly was so bad about it. Since I am on the virge of putting my foot through this damn thing, I figure I'd give it one last ditch effort by ordering and installing one of these. Now, I understand there are underrated transistors in this kit. I assume these are the 2N3904 and 3906s found throughout the monitor, right...are those the one's that were in question in the replacement kit? Also, wasn't there some Motorola replacement for these that were questionable? If you guys would like, I'd be more than happy to test out the Motorola ones...I have about had it :). Well, I don't intend to literally blow it up, but you get the idea. Thanks!!! Ed From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 17:47:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 17:47:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 17:46:59 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Cinematronics XY characteristics Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Now that we've determined that the deflection characteristics of the Sega's are better than the Wells, what about Cine's performance compared to the B&W Atari monitor? Assuming that Atari B&W's are more likely to be found than a Cine, is it practical to build a board to adapt an analog Atari monitor to the Cine board set? From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 18:08:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 18:08:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970505163738.007e56e0@ng.netgate.net> X-Sender: grigsby@ng.netgate.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 16:37:38 -0700 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: The Grigsbeast Subject: newsgroup? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com How about r.g.v.a.c.tech? I wouldn't mind separating out the "I want a..." and "Have you seen any..." and "Gee, I miss ..." (i.e. 90% of the traffic) from the tech talk, and I wouldn't mind seeing raster talk in with the vector stuff so long as the chat could be removed. // grigs From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 18:21:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 18:21:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 5 May 97 18:20 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970505181722.0d5f5b3e@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: Cinematronics XY characteristics Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 05:46 PM 5/5/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Now that we've determined that the deflection characteristics of the >Sega's are better than the Wells, what about Cine's performance >compared to the B&W Atari monitor? Assuming that Atari B&W's are >more likely to be found than a Cine, is it practical to build a >board to adapt an analog Atari monitor to the Cine board set? The Atari B&W monitors and Atari Color monitors ran at similar speeds, and Boxing Bugs and Color WotW both use the Atari (WG) monitors, so speed is not an issue. The problem with the Cinematronics world is that the Monitors were originally designed to accept all digital inputs (12 bits a piece for the X and Y positioning, and 2 bits a piece for Trace-on and Bright signals, on the standard Bi-Level monitor, another couple of bits for latching the positioning information). So the complexity of a B&W conversion board will on the order of that of the Color Conversion board used in Boxing Bugs / WotW, minus a few op-amps needed to drive the RGB guns instead of just one. But since you're going through all this trouble you might as will leave the op-amps and have yourself a full Cinematronics Color Conversion card. However you do it you're going to need a couple of 12 bit DACs an analog multiplexor/switch, some latches, a sprinkling of op amps to: Buffer the R/C circuit, compensate for the blooming of things drawn around the edges (which Cinematronics was able to do without that pesky VDR that Atari used), and if the WG color monitor is to be driven, you'll need to compensate for the inverted pincushion effect. You'll also need some circuitry to switch between the different type monitors used: 2 level, 16 level, 64 level, and Color. A little more involved than just level shifting... -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 18:38:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 18:38:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:32:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Ed Henciak X-Sender: ethst3@unixs6.cis.pitt.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Question about Zanen's G08 Cap kit... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com WOW! Major update! The monitor is blowing fuses now near the HV unit. I havent touched anything on the monitor board...BUT the audio is cleaned up now as I have switched the G80 power supply with a 150W PC switching supply and rigged up a 6 VAC transformer for the audio. In my earlier post about the speech board...there is no difference I can hear between the two boards I have as far as when Spock says "Welcome aboard captain...". Hopefully, after a couple days, I'll be able to see it!!! :) Thanks!!! Ed On Mon, 5 May 1997, Ed Henciak wrote: > Hello there, > > Sorry to seem off topic about the multigame stuff, but I missed the > discussion earlier on RGVAC about the Zanen cap kit for the G08. What > exactly was so bad about it. Since I am on the virge of putting my foot > through this damn thing, I figure I'd give it one last ditch effort by > ordering and installing one of these. Now, I understand there are > underrated transistors in this kit. I assume these are the 2N3904 and > 3906s found throughout the monitor, right...are those the one's that were > in question in the replacement kit? Also, wasn't there some Motorola > replacement for these that were questionable? If you guys would like, I'd > be more than happy to test out the Motorola ones...I have about had it :). > Well, I don't intend to literally blow it up, but you get the idea. > Thanks!!! > > Ed > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 19:55:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 19:55:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <336EB90E.2FCE@mail.idt.net> Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 21:52:30 -0700 From: mayday19 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Space Fury Cocktail References: <2.2.16.19970502174726.33b777fc@pop3.concentric.net> <199705030211.WAA01389@po_box.cig.mot.com> <199705051451.KAA17969@po_box.cig.mot.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > The cocktail Sega XY games are not too very common, so definitely grab these. > I'd love to find out more about their monitors, since I know the chassis is > modified so it can fit in a cocktail cabinet. I talked to him again, and he said one of the CTs is missing a monitor, but I have 3 extra G-08s (have not tested them yet) already so maybe I could make one fit. > > I should be picking them up > > next weekend along with a pile of other vector games, this guy said he > > had a 4-p eliminator that he might have parted out, so I hope I can dig > > up the parts for it whle I am there! > > Ooo! Ooo! I'd be interested in the 4-player Eliminator parts! I'm always > looking for a yellow and red control panel that's in better condition than > mine! Also, see if he has the cool high impact promotional canopy for the > game! I'd love to get one of these! I'd be happy with just a marquee! I have seen that on a flyer, but the flyer I have for the 4-p eliminator does not have the canopy, so they must have given up on the canopy early on and changed the flyer. also, on one of the flyers (I forgot the difference), all the panels are the color of the player, and on the flyer I have, all the panels are black, and only the buttons are the color of the player. I'd love to get a 4-p eliminator too! how many were made and how many collectors on the net have them? > > I also have a set of Eliminator boards I am picking up tomorrow, could > > any of you guys tell me what the labeling is for the UR, CT, and 4p > > versions so I can know what kind of set I have here? > > If you look at the EPROM board, here's what you should see: > > EPROM range Game > --------------------- > 1200 1212 Eliminator cocktail > 1333 1345 Eliminator upright > 1347 1360 Eliminator 4-player Thanks, I'll take a look tonight... the marquee I have for the eliminator converta-cab has a purple background, I seem to recall seeing a different color like black, or are they all like this? > Good luck on your acquisitions! More than likely you'll have problems with > these, so let me know if you need any help (repair, boards, tips, FAQ...) Thanks, I'll probably need it! Jeff From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 21:52:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 21:52:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:03:09 +0100 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: G80 speech board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Both of my star trek board sets have the ORATOR speech chip. -jeff >Al writes: > >>On the Trek >>board set that I have, they didn't populate the Votrax speech generator >>or the timer stuff, so I had assumed that the other two games with speech >>didn't use it either. If this is in fact true, it makes the functionality >>of the speech board REALLY easy (essentially just an 8035 and a DAC). > >Can anyone else confirm this configuration for either Space Fury or Star Trek? > >I've only seen G-80 boards with the Orator speech chips (I've seen this on >4 Star Trek sets and one Astro Blaster) populated, but this is *very* cool >if there are versions without the Orator! > >It looks like the Orator chips were fairly rare (esp. now!), so if we can >work around that that is EXCELLENT news! > >-Clay > >Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager >_______________________________________________________________________ >/\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com >\/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade Classic Video Arcade Games www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 5 22:00:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 5 May 1997 22:00:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:59:54 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: G80 speech board Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com turns out I was mistaken, my board has the 28 pin GI part as well. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 02:20:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 02:20:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <336EF765.1CE4@links.magenta.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 03:18:29 -0600 From: Jess Askey X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Atari Vector ROM Viewer References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hello All! I don't mean to break up all these great discussions about Sega games, I have written an Atari Vector ROM viewer that you can checkout here.... http://magenta.com/havoc/atari/vector/programs/avrv/avrv.html This is my first programming in awhile and my first with C++ Builder. it is very young but I will probably be updating it every night untill it is fully functional. It is a Win95 exe and will only run in Win95 and WinNT4.0. Let me know what you think. later! -- Jess Askey Atari Game Page:http://magenta.com/havoc ESLB\The Audio Analyst 509 S 2nd St Unit B Wanted: Atari I,Robot PCB Laramie, WY 82070 Data East Speed Buggy PCB (307)721-9001 Atari Quantum PCB From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 06:19:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 06:19:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Message-Id: <9705061314.AA23894@savage.raleigh.ibm.com> Subject: Re: Cinematronics XY characteristics To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 09:14:17 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970505181722.0d5f5b3e@pop3.concentric.net> from "Zonn" at May 5, 97 06:20:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1151 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > You'll also need some circuitry to switch between the different type > monitors used: 2 level, 16 level, 64 level, and Color. Zonn, How do the inputs look for the 16-level, 64-level, and (especially) the color versions? The way I understand the 2 level, one of the two inputs indicates beam on or off, and the other one makes the beam brighter if its on. Is this correct? What would happen if the bright signal was on but the beam signal was off? The circuit (from 20,000ft) looks like either input being on would turn the beam on to the low level. Is that right? Do the 16- and 64-level versions work similarly (on signal for on/off, and 4 or 6 bits for intensity)? How are the color inputs arranged? I've been looking at laying out a circuit to handle the 12-bit deflection signals, but I'm not sure how to handle the brightness signals. John +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John W. Linville To Be, Rather Than To Seem. | | linvjw@vnet.ibm.com http://www4.ncsu.edu/eos/users/j/jwlinvi/www | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 06:52:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 06:52:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705061356.JAA08614@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 08:48:11 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: "Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds" (May 5, 5:43pm) References: <199705060015.UAA09127@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 5, 5:43pm, wrote: > Subject: Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds > > Do to David's and I's realization that Zektor needs the AY-3-8912 chip to get > > all the sounds, and the fact that most of the Eliminator boards I have have > > this socket unpopulated, I'll need to know from the following people if they > > need to have their Eliminator sound board populated with this chip or not. > > Needs to be populated if you can play Zektor, doesn't need it if you're using > > it for just Eliminator. Please don't kill me. My original items for sale were posted like this: Sound boards ------------ Eliminator/Zektor $20 Space Fury $25 Universal Sound board $30 Speechboards $10 This was before I realized that the sound board for Zektor REQUIRED the 8912 chip to have all the sounds (I had at first speculated that the sounds were never developed). After checking the sockets of all my sound boards for extras, I found that I am WAY oversold on these things already, so I can't offer this chip to those people who asked for it. All I can do is offer an Eliminator soundboard without the 8912 chip. The four missing sounds are REALLY minor (Rick and I didn't even notice they were missing until we put the game into test mode). However, for those of you who MUST have a 8912 in your boardset, John Roberton does have a few of these for sale, and he's asking $20US for each. I apologize for finding this out after the fact (I was unaware! I wa unaware!), so if anyone wants to change/cancel there order, let me know. Otherwise I'll just send you an Eliminator sound board. Sorry again for any inconvenience. ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 07:34:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 07:34:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 06 May 1997 10:19 EDT To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Gregg Woodcock" Subject: Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In message "Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds", you write: > >Sound boards >------------ >Eliminator/Zektor $20 >Space Fury $25 >Universal Sound board $30 >Speechboards $10 OK, so that is $85 and I do NOT get an 8912 in my sound board. Where do I send the $$? -- THANX...Gregg day 214.684.7380 night UNLIST/PUBL TEXAS NOT CANADA! woodcock@nortel.com or bn202@cleveland.freenet.edu *CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)* "If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 07:46:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 07:46:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705061450.KAA14668@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 09:42:08 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: "Gregg Woodcock" "Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds" (May 6, 10:19am) References: <199705061439.KAA13428@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 6, 10:19am, Gregg Woodcock wrote: > Subject: Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds > In message "Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds", > you write: > > > >Sound boards > >------------ > >Eliminator/Zektor $20 > >Space Fury $25 > >Universal Sound board $30 > >Speechboards $10 > > OK, so that is $85 and I do NOT get an 8912 in my sound board. Where > do I send the $$? Don't send any money until you get the boards. Please specify how you want your speech board populated (Space Fury, StarTrek, Zektor, unpopulated??) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 08:30:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 08:30:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 08:31:58 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Cinematronics XY characteristics Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Now that we've determined that the deflection characteristics of the >Sega's are better than the Wells, what about Cine's performance >compared to the B&W Atari monitor? Assuming that Atari B&W's are >more likely to be found than a Cine, is it practical to build a >board to adapt an analog Atari monitor to the Cine board set? I don't think there's anything to stand in our way technically. I started tinkering around with this a while back with one of the Boxing Bugs->color WG adapter boards. The only reason I stopped was that it was a pretty large project and I had a few other things I need to get out of the way first... The WG adapter board from Cinemat looks pretty over-engineered to me. They did some weird stuff. Particularly the color drive circuits could be simplified. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 09:07:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 09:07:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705061611.MAA23166@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 11:02:36 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: mayday19 "eliminator" (May 6, 10:53am) References: <199705061600.MAA22052@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: mayday19 Subject: Re: eliminator Cc: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 6, 10:53am, mayday19 wrote: > Subject: eliminator > I checked my boards and the eproms are labeled from 1158-1170, so I guess > I dont have an eliminator eprom board. the CPU board's rom is labeled > 969. Eprom range 1158-1170 is undocumented; you either have one of the following: 1) An unknown version of Eliminator 2) A cocktail Space Fury 3) An early raster game for the G-80 system 4) Battlestar Either way, you should get the EPROMs archived. > I have a meatball sound board and there is no chip at u30, is there > supposed to be? Not for Eliminator, but Zektor should be populated. FYI ************************************ 7. Sega Convert-a-Game EPROM Mapping ************************************ Begin End Board --------------------------------------- 808 812 Astro Blaster Speech board 829 Astro Blaster CPU EPROM 888 906 Astro Blaster ??? ??? Space Odyssey 959 Space Odyssey 960 968 Space Fury 969 Space Fury, and cocktail and upright Eliminators CPU EPROM 970 972 Space Fury speech board 1200 1212 Eliminator cocktail 1333 1345 Eliminator upright 1346 Eliminator upright CPU EPROM 1347 1360 Eliminator 4-player 1390 4-player Eliminator CPU EPROM 1586 1606 Zektor 1607 1610 Zektor speech board 1611 Zektor CPU EPROM 1670 1688 Tac/Scan 1689 1708 Empty 1709 1710 Tac/Scan 1711 Tac/Scan CPU EPROM 1712 1777 Monster Bash 1778 Monster Bash CPU EPROM 1779 1801 005? 1802? 005? 1848 1870 Star Trek 1871 1872 Star Trek speech board 1873 Star Trek CPU ERPOM If anyone can add to this list, let me know... ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 09:21:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 09:20:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705061624.MAA24670@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 11:16:33 -0500 From: Mark Jenison X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: XY pair ribbon connectors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com All, Anyone know a cheap source for the 24-pin EPROM socket ribbon cable connectors that the XY pair use? Or is there a cheap way to make these? Any sources or leads would be appreciated. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 09:23:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 09:22:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705061626.MAA24855@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 11:18:10 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Mark Jenison "Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds" (May 6, 9:42am) References: <199705061439.KAA13428@po_box.cig.mot.com> <199705061623.MAA24544@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Zektor snd bd component differences and missing snds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Sorry about that, I've got to pay more attention to my reply lists. Who the heck is in vectorlist@goodsquad.spies.com anyway? Can we find out who is subscribed? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 09:35:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 09:35:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 09:35:28 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: current list subscribers Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com there is a help message you can get for all the listserver commands by saying 'help' in the message body to vectorlist-request@spies.com here is the current list aek@spies.com jenison@cig.mot.com clay@supra.com grigsby@netgate.net PTonizzo@watcom.on.ca dfish@bev.etn.com dss2d@hobbes.itc.virginia.edu mowlawnman@aol.com zonn@concentric.net clay@supra.com ray@mayo.edu starla@mail.bogo.co.uk jess@magenta.com eric@spies.com hedley@8x8.com woodcock@nortel.ca fishd@tiac.net Dangerwil@aol.com bpaul@qualcomm.com sso@dsc.com mrbill2@telis.org mayday19@idt.net jeffh@diac.com RWood54741@worldnet.att.net wile_e@mindlink.bc.ca linvjw@VNET.IBM.COM ep60wtu@shellus.com mschulz@ticipa.Works.ti.com warren@techie.com a-dashoe@microsoft.com twisnion@mcs.com luna@teleport.com davids@wolfenet.com litterbox@willowtree.com k.gerdes@genie.com ethst3@pitt.edu jasonr@bfrsys.com From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 10:04:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 10:03:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Fish, David" To: "'Vector_list'" Subject: RE: eliminator Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:00:21 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Mark J. wrote: >>On May 6, 10:53am, mayday19 wrote: >>> Subject: eliminator >>> I checked my boards and the eproms are labeled from 1158-1170, so I guess >>> I dont have an eliminator eprom board. the CPU board's rom is labeled >>> 969. > >>Eprom range 1158-1170 is undocumented; you either have one of the following: > >>1) An unknown version of Eliminator >>2) A cocktail Space Fury >>3) An early raster game for the G-80 system >>4) Battlestar > >>Either way, you should get the EPROMs archived. > A 'quick and dirty' way to tell the name of the game in which these EPROMs are used is to read the first EPROM on the EPROM board into a programmer. Look at the bytes between the 20th and 40th as ASCII data ($41 to $5A). The name of the game should be in there. This works for all the Sega X/Y games I tried it on with the exception of Tac/Scan. Dave From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 10:15:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 10:15:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: current list subscribers Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:09:50 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day folks, Seems like enough people to start a newsgroup....I'd be happy to show someone the ropes (as I did for RGVA and RGVAC)! I don't care whether we call it RGVAC.tech or RGVAC.vector... Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com >---------- >From: aek@goonsquad.spies.com[SMTP:aek@goonsquad.spies.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 1997 11:35 AM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: current list subscribers > > >there is a help message you can get for all the listserver commands >by saying 'help' in the message body to vectorlist-request@spies.com > >here is the current list > >aek@spies.com >jenison@cig.mot.com >clay@supra.com >grigsby@netgate.net >PTonizzo@watcom.on.ca >dfish@bev.etn.com >dss2d@hobbes.itc.virginia.edu >mowlawnman@aol.com >zonn@concentric.net >clay@supra.com >ray@mayo.edu >starla@mail.bogo.co.uk >jess@magenta.com >eric@spies.com >hedley@8x8.com >woodcock@nortel.ca >fishd@tiac.net >Dangerwil@aol.com >bpaul@qualcomm.com >sso@dsc.com >mrbill2@telis.org >mayday19@idt.net >jeffh@diac.com >RWood54741@worldnet.att.net >wile_e@mindlink.bc.ca >linvjw@VNET.IBM.COM >ep60wtu@shellus.com >mschulz@ticipa.Works.ti.com >warren@techie.com >a-dashoe@microsoft.com >twisnion@mcs.com >luna@teleport.com >davids@wolfenet.com >litterbox@willowtree.com >k.gerdes@genie.com >ethst3@pitt.edu >jasonr@bfrsys.com > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 10:21:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 10:20:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 6 May 97 10:19 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970506101609.17a7a462@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: Cinematronics XY characteristics Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 09:14 AM 5/6/97 -0400, you wrote: >> You'll also need some circuitry to switch between the different type >> monitors used: 2 level, 16 level, 64 level, and Color. > >Zonn, > >How do the inputs look for the 16-level, 64-level, and (especially) the >color versions? > >The way I understand the 2 level, one of the two inputs indicates beam >on or off, and the other one makes the beam brighter if its on. Is this >correct? What would happen if the bright signal was on but the beam >signal was off? The circuit (from 20,000ft) looks like either input >being on would turn the beam on to the low level. Is that right? That would be the case if you were to twiddle with the bits going into the monitor. On the CPU card the Brightness level is gated with the Trace On/Off signal to prevent a "Brightness without Trace" state from ever getting to the monitor. This gating can be disabled to allow the Brightness signal to pass unobstructed to the monitor, that's what the Norm/Var jumper on the CPU card does. >Do the 16- and 64-level versions work similarly (on signal for on/off, >and 4 or 6 bits for intensity)? How are the color inputs arranged? > >I've been looking at laying out a circuit to handle the 12-bit >deflection signals, but I'm not sure how to handle the brightness >signals. They all have one thing in common. They share the X DAC's data lines, and they then use what was the brightness line as a strobe line. So to set a color or intensity the software places the color or intensity in the A register, executes a 'VIN' (Vector Initialize) instruction which latches the data onto the X DAC's data bus. The Brightness line (which is normally set to bright, and is mapped to the instruction 'OUT 6' is then strobed to normal, then back to bright. At this point, since you've also moved the CRT beam off in some random direction and have placed some random load on the Yoke amplifiers, they re-center the beam with another VIN instruction. The above sequence is used for all the multi-level intensity games. The following is off the top of my head since I don't have any documentation here at work: As far as mapping goes, the 16 level display uses the 4 lower bits of the 12 bits going to the X-DAC (bits 3-0), and I believe they use inverted logic. '0' being maximum brightness. The 64 level display uses bits 7-2 and it's logic is opposite that of the 16 level display. The Color Card didn't have a schematic, so I sat down with a ohm meter and traced the color latches through to the 4 bit DACs leading to the RGB op-amp buffers, to determine which bits were which color, and all the signal inversions leading up to the CRT guns. The Color Monitor uses all 12 bits: Bits 11-8 are the Blue level, Bits 7-4 are the Green level, and Bits 3-0 are the Red level. All the signals are inverted so the value 0x000 gives a maximum brightness of WHITE. Before you go laying all this out onto a PCB let me double check all this! ;^) Your also going to need to know a little more about the offsets. 0,0 is not the center of the X,Y display. It instead refers to the lower left corner of a 1024x768 display. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 10:39:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 10:39:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <01BC5A08.228DFC60@sea-ts1-p48.wolfenet.com> From: David Shoemaker To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: current list subscribers Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:27:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC5A08.228DFC60" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5A08.228DFC60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK so what do I do? RGVAC.tech sounds a bit more like the focus of this group. David ---------- From: Ozdemir, Steve[SMTP:sso@dsc.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 1997 10:09 AM To: 'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com' Subject: RE: current list subscribers G'day folks, Seems like enough people to start a newsgroup....I'd be happy to show someone the ropes (as I did for RGVA and RGVAC)! I don't care whether we call it RGVAC.tech or RGVAC.vector... Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com >---------- >From: aek@goonsquad.spies.com[SMTP:aek@goonsquad.spies.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 1997 11:35 AM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: current list subscribers > > >there is a help message you can get for all the listserver commands >by saying 'help' in the message body to vectorlist-request@spies.com > >here is the current list > >aek@spies.com >jenison@cig.mot.com >clay@supra.com >grigsby@netgate.net >PTonizzo@watcom.on.ca >dfish@bev.etn.com >dss2d@hobbes.itc.virginia.edu >mowlawnman@aol.com >zonn@concentric.net >clay@supra.com >ray@mayo.edu >starla@mail.bogo.co.uk >jess@magenta.com >eric@spies.com >hedley@8x8.com >woodcock@nortel.ca >fishd@tiac.net >Dangerwil@aol.com >bpaul@qualcomm.com >sso@dsc.com >mrbill2@telis.org >mayday19@idt.net >jeffh@diac.com >RWood54741@worldnet.att.net >wile_e@mindlink.bc.ca >linvjw@VNET.IBM.COM >ep60wtu@shellus.com >mschulz@ticipa.Works.ti.com >warren@techie.com >a-dashoe@microsoft.com >twisnion@mcs.com >luna@teleport.com >davids@wolfenet.com >litterbox@willowtree.com >k.gerdes@genie.com >ethst3@pitt.edu >jasonr@bfrsys.com > > ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5A08.228DFC60 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiwRAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AFABAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAFsAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAAB2ZWN0b3JsaXN0QGdvb25zcXVhZC5zcGllcy5jb20AU01UUAB2ZWN0b3JsaXN0QGdv b25zcXVhZC5zcGllcy5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAfAAAAdmVjdG9y bGlzdEBnb29uc3F1YWQuc3BpZXMuY29tAAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAhAAAAJ3Zl Y3Rvcmxpc3RAZ29vbnNxdWFkLnNwaWVzLmNvbScAAAAAAgELMAEAAAAkAAAAU01UUDpWRUNUT1JM SVNUQEdPT05TUVVBRC5TUElFUy5DT00AAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAANW SQEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQSAAQAdAAAAUkU6IGN1cnJlbnQg bGlzdCBzdWJzY3JpYmVycwCXCgEFgAMADgAAAM0HBQAGAAoAGwArAAIAMQEBIIADAA4AAADNBwUA BgAKABsABwACAA0BAQmAAQAhAAAAMzYwNzEzNjBGQUM1RDAxMTgzQ0Y0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAAxQYB A5AGAPgGAAASAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAAAsrzkJavAEe AHAAAQAAAB0AAABSRTogY3VycmVudCBsaXN0IHN1YnNjcmliZXJzAAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG8 WkLOK2ATBzfF+hHQg89ERVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAUAAAAZGF2 aWRzQHdvbGZlbmV0LmNvbQADAAYQyDE54AMABxD3BAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAT0tTT1dIQVRET0lE Tz9SR1ZBQ1RFQ0hTT1VORFNBQklUTU9SRUxJS0VUSEVGT0NVU09GVEhJU0dST1VQREFWSUQtLS0t LS0tLS0tRlJPTTpPWkRFTUlSLFNURVZFU01UUDpTUwAAAAACAQkQAQAAAHYFAAByBQAANgoAAExa RnWrV+Aw/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0C gzN3AuQHEwKAfQqACM8J2TvxFg8yNTUCgAqBDbELYOBuZzEwMxRQCwoUUQUL8mMAQCBPSyBzWG8g dxGABUBkGzBJCRuRPyAH8EdWQUOOLhPQEXAbEXVuZAQgcGEgYmkFQARgFhAgyGxpax3wdGgd8AIQ ZGN1BCBvZh5RBAAgMwnACGBwLgqFCoVEYTh2aWQf7Ar0HhAxOIIwAtFpLTE0NA3w5wzQIvMLWTE2 CqADYByhfQVALSUXCocjywwwJJZGvQNhOiYeJJYMghrgeg2wMG1pciwGABPQdmVAW1NNVFA6BBBv kkAdMGMuBaBtXSW/XybNBmACMCf/KQtUClBzKGRheSpATTBAIDBCNipAMTk5NzDwMGg6MDkUsE0r 3ybNVPZvLh8pCycqkCTgBbAeEBETwEBnbwIgc3F1oGFkLnNwCJBzK4LGJzHfLO51Ymok0TP/2SkL UkU6QB7AchYQAjBfHgETwBsQOeAE8mIEkHNzIR8iIzM2I5caRSSWR4YnMDEekWxrcywf7L8GYBPg BCAeEwnwCGBnHND4cGVvC1AeQRswE8AKwGsFQB1gbgfQcx+ERVFJz0DwHXAd8BGAcHAwoEQS+Ghv dwqFGyAHgAIgHkTnA2BDoAQgKGEEIBvRIPA/HpEFwBxCHVAdIBw0KSHTHCAb0m4nBUBjCsAd8Ncb UBHAHnByCoV3HfBK4P5sAyAdkRxJSRUcgDXkRVH/Pe0pkimDKmMDoAXwKdVPD2srGR/sPiUfPie1 KZJh/GVrNo8rkSq0VZ83ZCvGDj4t1S+/MMgxOjM1/TGoPjPTKZI17zb7WOc55/cpkjxvPXw+Yc5L Yh3wH1EzHWAecGxwHbAHkHNh+mcd8HkIYErRA6BkkAVA30kCTFIeYl1iEbByKpAFwG8rkQOBHTBT RmIwoGRwee0LgGc1wGPyJ0yAA6AeYttkRgbgZEZDXQgtFhA24P8HkF2QXl9TRmNWHmJgSmHOH1di a686AAMAGyBuQGOoaWcuBGB0XqpjC2DmeW/gH7ByYV6qCcBxkEpzZ/BARMB0ZxtwZTYudJFTRlAz 0AMAenptKzB3G3ArkS4CICuAYS1TRmQiwEaQQD2gdi6fEcB20V7IHTAL8GRARqA+Yj2gN3AdkCtw IOByZ2cLgAcweCBkdVNGBGB3yQtgd24DgUBhBvBequ12IG5xYQIgYy3hBRArcP91GXK/U3NzMH7w AMBkwHq670RCC2CAUQMQLgbgXbArgfgudWtwiAQQgFFkkAIw23NLBnFjb+9tIWRD4H7wqDh4OF6q d13AZAWg/mNXgENAACBkAHbpd6J5YH50BzB9+yDAGRAEkAPwbLV8HmIKsHWLADbhbGbyt16qUi97 UXIdgExgMolw/2QABAB2sHpQevdaYFpRMQD+QCDwceB1GToADdB30EjAE4mhXrlSV4eRNTQ3rDQx dkBdQWR0kS4bcOORK4rhZV9lgFALgIZAPQuAa4IQK3F3B5YxdmpAd0BWTkVURYBCkE0uQ09b52Vw P1D4d3R1hQBj8QpAXptCsLsRcIxAeolxcYAKsC6TYPZyQXAckGmGywrAYHGPUecRcAiQXqphLVpQ RpGV0t0FAG8bIAGAXqp0A/EDANlxUW1jXpsKQG6BsIhBP5kAFbF4ayDSg3CHgGxmPwnwlGGhKh2Q E9CO8G94/3ZAjxFGsH3ACeBeqpZgirE/DbCDcIOxnZxLURPAM0C3N0CUoXrJakhwAiByd+D9A1Bz E7Br/6uIPe8+/0AMCwqFFTEAsFAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAIAAABAAAcwoHD0uEJavAFAAAgwoHD0 uEJavAEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAFpG ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5A08.228DFC60-- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 10:47:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 10:46:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Fish, David" To: "vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com" Subject: RE: G80 speech board Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:43:15 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >>>next to this 'GI...and it is that rectangular, unlike the orator's "curvy" >>>GI... is the number 8048 CCA and TAIWAN. > >>Hmmmm. Could just be a manufacturer's number I suppose. The 81xx and 82xx numbers are date codes. The 10 digit number is more than likely a 'house' number. I have boards with both kinds and they sound the same. >>>And one more thing I just noticed...on the board I have >>>without the ORATOR, there is a national semiconductor 8039 (exact numbers >>>are 014C INS8039N-6 /P8039-6)...on the board with the ORATOR there is >>>an Intel P8035HL L2468201. Hope this helps!!! Thanks > >>Huh. That's interesting. I don't know the 8035/9 off the top of my head, >>so it might just be an internal/external ROM thing. I'll try to remember >>to look it up. The 8039 is a 8035 with 2X more internal RAM. No internal ROM Dave From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 11:11:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 11:11:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 11:11:16 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: list charter Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I have mixed feeling about creating another news group. This list was created because of all the Zektor related mail flying around and because of the Sega multigame and simulator discussions going on. There were (are) some things being talked about that aren't quite ready to be announced to the world yet. I've also noticed that the volume of junk email I get goes up relative to the number of news postings that I make, and I'm getting tired of that... If this follows every other list i've ever been on, there is a flury of initial activity by a couple of people (like me :-) then it tapers off to something more managable. I had toyed with making it a digest, but it seems like you want fast message turn around right now.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 11:20:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 11:19:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705061823.OAA06607@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:15:10 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: "Fish, David" "RE: G80 speech board" (May 6, 1:43pm) References: <199705061752.NAA03666@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: G80 speech board Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 6, 1:43pm, Fish, David wrote: > Subject: RE: G80 speech board > > >>Huh. That's interesting. I don't know the 8035/9 off the top of my head, > >>so it might just be an internal/external ROM thing. I'll try to remember > >>to look it up. > > The 8039 is a 8035 with 2X more internal RAM. No internal ROM I think Space Fury's speech board runs fine with just a 8035. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 12:21:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 12:21:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705061916.OAA16705@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Tue, 6 May 97 14:18:08 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: list charter References: Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You wrote: > If this follows every other list i've ever been on, there is a > flury of initial activity by a couple of people (like me :-) > then it tapers off to something more managable. I had toyed > with making it a digest, but it seems like you want fast message > turn around right now.. This is very true. Project driven mailing lists work best when they are private, unannounced, and only contain people who are actively contributing to the project (if you don't have a role, you're not on the list...good motivation) This list has huge volume right now (I was out of town for 4 days and came back to 100+ messages) Almost all this volume is generated by a very small portion of the subscriber list. As the subscriber list grows, there will be more and more "Someone please fill me in..." types of questions. The risk of having closed lists is that people may discover they have real lives, and the list goes into stasis (eg, the cinematronics list and the Williams list). With an open list, there is always someone with something to say, and thus drag people back from their real lives ;-) With the current way this list is setup, it may as well be in a newsgroup. The only distinction is that some people are more likely to give priority to e-mail messages than news postings, but that is a subtle difference. My suggestion: someone articulate roles for this project, and sign people up to do them. Everyone else politely is asked to watch rgvac for occasional project updates (similar to the current KLOV effort). If people have to back out because of reality, recruit someone else to step into the role and move on. If people want to go this direction, I can volunteer for this coordinator/PM role, although my real life is real enough these days that I may not be the best person for the role (diapers diapers everywhere, and not a board to solder ;-) This PM stuff ain't rocket science, but it is one of the few things you can't do with a PIC ;-) Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 12:44:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 12:44:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970506133952.0057e2d8@btc.adaptec.com> X-Sender: andersk@btc.adaptec.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 13:39:52 -0600 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Anders Knudsen Subject: RE: current list subscribers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com No Way! The coolest thing about this mail list is that it is *NOT* a news group. Here the discussions can be much more focussed. -Anders At 10:09 AM 5/6/97 -0700, you wrote: >G'day folks, > >Seems like enough people to start a newsgroup....I'd be happy to show >someone the ropes (as I did for RGVA and RGVAC)! I don't care whether >we call it RGVAC.tech or RGVAC.vector... > > Steven S Ozdemir > sso@dsc.com > >>---------- >>From: aek@goonsquad.spies.com[SMTP:aek@goonsquad.spies.com] >>Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 1997 11:35 AM >>To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >>Subject: current list subscribers >> >> >>there is a help message you can get for all the listserver commands >>by saying 'help' in the message body to vectorlist-request@spies.com >> >>here is the current list >> >>aek@spies.com >>jenison@cig.mot.com >>clay@supra.com >>grigsby@netgate.net >>PTonizzo@watcom.on.ca >>dfish@bev.etn.com >>dss2d@hobbes.itc.virginia.edu >>mowlawnman@aol.com >>zonn@concentric.net >>clay@supra.com >>ray@mayo.edu >>starla@mail.bogo.co.uk >>jess@magenta.com >>eric@spies.com >>hedley@8x8.com >>woodcock@nortel.ca >>fishd@tiac.net >>Dangerwil@aol.com >>bpaul@qualcomm.com >>sso@dsc.com >>mrbill2@telis.org >>mayday19@idt.net >>jeffh@diac.com >>RWood54741@worldnet.att.net >>wile_e@mindlink.bc.ca >>linvjw@VNET.IBM.COM >>ep60wtu@shellus.com >>mschulz@ticipa.Works.ti.com >>warren@techie.com >>a-dashoe@microsoft.com >>twisnion@mcs.com >>luna@teleport.com >>davids@wolfenet.com >>litterbox@willowtree.com >>k.gerdes@genie.com >>ethst3@pitt.edu >>jasonr@bfrsys.com >> >> > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 12:49:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 12:49:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:41:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Ed Henciak X-Sender: ethst3@unixs1.cis.pitt.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: list charter In-Reply-To: <199705061916.OAA16705@fermat.mayo.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com If this list was the focus of current multigame projects, then I am sorry about my monitor questions!!! I was under the impression that the list was for vector game discussion, repair, hacks, etc. I am still relatively new to video game stuff (0nly 1 year...actually, one summer) so that's pretty much why I have been a pain in the ass!!! Sorry about the confusion! I'll generally lurk, but won't bother anyone anymore unless I have something to contribute! Again, sorry. Ed From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 13:11:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 13:10:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705062006.PAA19194@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Tue, 6 May 97 15:07:35 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: list charter References: Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You wrote: > If this list was the focus of current multigame projects, then I am sorry > about my monitor questions!!! I was under the impression that the list > was for vector game discussion, repair, hacks, etc. I am still relatively > new to video game stuff (0nly 1 year...actually, one summer) so that's > pretty much why I have been a pain in the ass!!! Sorry about the > confusion! I'll generally lurk, but won't bother anyone anymore unless I > have something to contribute! Again, sorry. Ed, I wasn't yelling at anybody in particular. It was my inner-engineer talking (what does it take to get things done) Actually, given my current "project" list, I'm not sure I have much to contribute either. I certainly didn't mean to give anyone a tongue lashing (real or perceived) Also, remember that my opinions are just that. If the list feels otherwise, that's cool as well. As Rick and Steve O. will attest, I've certainly benefited from their patience over the years, so I'm certainly not one to deny the same courtesy to others. Peace, etc... Ray NB this is where Clay/Zonn/Mark/Dave/etc. need to step in with some juicy techie stuff to save me from myself ;-) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 13:16:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 13:15:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 6 May 97 13:14 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970506131123.17a7508a@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: list charter Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 02:18 PM 5/6/97 -0500, you wrote: >You wrote: >This PM stuff ain't rocket science, but it is one of the few things you >can't do with a PIC ;-) I'm thinking with some sort of bank switching for extending memory, and perhaps a external hard drive controller, or better yet use an IBM-PC controller (just add some PC -> PIC glue logic) we would have the memory needed for the database. Now if each user were required to login on a per project basis, and if all e-mail correspondence was dependent upon a proper login, we could keep track of individual efforts, on login specific projects... I don't know, you might be able to use a PIC! ;^) -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 13:38:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 13:38:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705062042.QAA19690@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:33:50 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Ray Ghanbari "Re: list charter" (May 6, 3:07pm) References: <199705062020.QAA17869@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: list charter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 6, 3:07pm, Ray Ghanbari wrote: > Subject: Re: list charter > You wrote: > > NB this is where Clay/Zonn/Mark/Dave/etc. need to step in with some juicy > techie stuff to save me from myself ;-) Are you kidding me?? I don't have a CLUE what a PIC is (ice pick? toothpic?). I'm much more into applying ("Let's power it up and see what it does") than speculating ("What if we used a DAC to shift the lower bits to make a pig fly?") :-) The only problem with a project of this magnatude (Sega XY multigame/new hardware) is that a lot of theorizing goes on and ideas, and (not all the time, but most of the time) nothing gets done because 1) There are so many ways to do it and no one can agree which way to do it, 2) Everyone likes the idea right now, but it's actually item #307 on their "TO DO" list, and 3) by the time you DO get to it, the excitement of it is lost so you just don't :-). Whereas I'm the type to just say "Here's the hardware, enjoy!" :-) PS. Don't get me wrong; I'd love to see this project actually come to pass; I think it's everyone's right to enjoy Sega XY game (I love 'em!). As soon as David Fish has the code re-written to play them without the special chips, no one will be limited by the ability to obtain rare hardware. I'd also like to see a PC emulator written. In my opinion, a multigame is #3 behind these other two projects. Anyway, back to the show... ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 13:47:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 13:47:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:47:21 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: NOS AY3-8912's found! Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com While I was at lunch picking up the 24 pin headers for Mark, for yucks I asked "You don't have any AY3-8912's do you?" AND THEY BROUGHT BACK A BIN WITH 20 of EM! I bought 10 (They were 5.50 ea) and i'll be sending 8 to Mark along with 25 of the crimp on 24 pin DIP headers. If we need more, i'll pick up the rest... From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 13:55:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 13:55:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Fish, David" To: "vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com" Subject: Short term plans (was RE: list charter) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 16:51:10 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >>PS. Don't get me wrong; I'd love to see this project actually come to pass; >>I >>think it's everyone's right to enjoy Sega XY game (I love 'em!). As soon as >>David Fish has the code re-written to play them without the special chips, >>no >>one will be limited by the ability to obtain rare hardware. I'd also like >>to >>see a PC emulator written. In my opinion, a multigame is #3 behind these >>other >>two projects. To keep everybody happy I plan on releasing the 'SC-free' version of Zektor first. I estimate that it should be ready 2 weeks after I get my hands on the security chip which is on the way. The other programs will be released when Clay's protoboard is finished. (no pressure Clay!). The alpha version of Space Fury has been sent to a beta test facility, Clay again ;-) If people think that I should do otherwise, let me know. That should keep the hounds at bay. Dave > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 13:57:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 13:57:19 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <336F9A9D.5775@links.magenta.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 14:54:53 -0600 From: Jess Askey X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Anyone else found any Lost Vector Graphics!!?? References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3A5CAF4B0E" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3A5CAF4B0E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I found this graphic and lots more in the Major Havoc Vector ROM's last night. I talked to owen and he had originally designed this robot to be in the maze as well but it never made it. It was inspired by Maximillian from the Black Hole movie. Had anyone found any "left out" vector in the sega ROM's yet? Just wanted to show this since it is kinda neat! :-) -- Jess Askey Atari Game Page:http://magenta.com/havoc ESLB\The Audio Analyst 509 S 2nd St Unit B Wanted: Atari I,Robot PCB Laramie, WY 82070 Data East Speed Buggy PCB (307)721-9001 Atari Quantum PCB --------------3A5CAF4B0E Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="max.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="max.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CAChAGMDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk NOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOE hYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk 5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwD5/ooooAKKKKAJIoxJnOePSrEFibieOGLJ kkYKoyBkmo7b+L8K1dHBGs2Jwf8AXof/AB4Um7IunHmmola60aazRXmC7WJAKyK3IAPb6iqn 2ZfU1uXODo6Ak5FzLj3+VKy9v1qYSutTXE04wnaOxnUUUVZzhRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQBYt erfhW9FIulPFM6LLckLKqsThAcFTwRliMe31J4w7LJZlB+9gV0uqaVdtdY2wqqqIlJnQbwo2 7sE9CR/Ss5tXszsw1ObjKpBXasVpNStrmIQSWkcUW8tmMtlSQASMk56Dr+lUbm3a3bY+OVDj HcEAg/kasDRrzP8Ay7nt/wAfMf8A8VUutwtFPAGC5NugwrBvujaeRx1U/pQnFSsi6kKs6cql WNrW1tY5qiiitDgCiiigAooooAl+zv6rR9nf1WrNFAFb7O/qtKLZz3WrFPCnAOaAEsomjnXO GyRgCtm+ulGp31vPk27XDnjkod33l9fp3/AEVdIhkbVrZlhkkRJVd9iFsKCCTgCiXTtReRm+ w3Ryc/6luf0rNpN6nZTc40vdXX8LErGLT1PlzLNM6/Kyg7UX1wf4jx9B/tfdTVXLw2BP/Pt3 P+21Rf2Zf54sLrp3hb/CrV3ZXSaJC01rMjJI+S0ZBVDtxn2zn8c0tL3KUpypzjayt+Rzv2Z/ VaPs7+q1bAO7tSP97t+FaHCVPs7+q0fZ39VqzRTArfZ39VoqzRQAUu04zSVo2EVvJBcSXAkI hjDAIwGfmA6kH1pN2RdODnKyKGw1Ztbd7jIBARBudj0Uep/w7nAHJqyG0ngCC7/Gdf8A4itG /WwsYIoGguljkRZRtmX58jqfl7cgenPqaiVS2iR10sImnNyVl5mRNchUEMGViXvz+8P94/0H b881/Pl/56N+dXfM0n/n3vP+/wCv/wARSeZpP/PC7/7/AK//ABFP5Ecsv5195T8+X++1SR3c sbKwc5HqMj8c9RVjzNJ/54Xf/f8AX/4il36V/wA+95/3/X/4il8g5Z/8/F94yWBJ4GubddoB +ePOSnuO5X+XQ9iaJHPXNa0Nzp0UytFDdjA6mZSPxG3ke1Tanb6XZX8kElrdKwwSBMuFyAcf dJ4zSU7OzRpPCqcPaKS0dn6vb7zC2nGaQjBrXEGnz2lzJAlwjQoGBeUMD8wH90djWS33q0Uk zlqUnTtfqJRRRTMgrSsMf2bqPT/VL/6GtZtammRvNZ38UaM7tCMKoyT861E9jow3x/J/kzPA +cdOvWt7XR5tvayBgfLjSNgP4RsVhn67m/L2rN/sjUQebK5GPWJv8K075W8q/gZWVooreQg8 dFVcY/4H+nvUyack0dVCE40ZxkrX/RN/oYBHzY4zTDwacepxTDWp5ouaUE4ptKOlAF/S4Un1 K2SQZjLgt9Aec+2M1LrrtJqru3LGOMk+vyLzSaUfK+03P/PKFuPXd8n/ALNn8KsanYXt1dia G1nkjaGLDJGSD8ijqPfisr/vU3seiov6nypat3/BorWODp+oj/piv/oxazT15rZgsbq103UD cW8sQMS4LoRn519qxmOTVQ3Zz14uMIJ72f5sSiiirOYKlikKEbSQfaoqcn3h9aGOLad0dFdS uBqBzwLSEj2P7v8AxNZ2lt5t+ImywmVouemWGFJ9gcH8KvXf3NQ/684P/adYSsV6Ej6VjTir HpYutJVYtu+/5sttpOog/wDHhc/9+m/wpP7H1HGTY3OOn+qb/Cq/nS/32/OtC4kkGjWb7myZ ZOc9cBP8apuSsjnhChKMpa6Ly7pFcaPqRbaLC5JJwP3Tc/pQNJ1H/nxuT/2yb/CrGkSSPq1q N5bMgBB78iqBmlycSN+ZppyvYbhQVNT11v28v8zQa2mstHZbmGSNp5htVkIICjnOf94fkaLC aT7Ff5c4WFcf9/ErOMjkDLNgHjnpV2wObHUf+uS/+jEqZR93UqlVvUXJdJJr8GLrLn7dgnjy YuPX92tZhOTWhrP/ACEB/wBcYv8A0WtZ1VD4UY4pt1pX7sKKKKs5wpydQfem1PbW01w2IYnk I5IRSf5UFRTbskbV193UB/05wf8AtOsEV0VxDK89/AsTmU2cGI9p3cCPtWBLDLbSmKaN45AM lXXBHcVnSeh3Y6L50+mv5s05YNNt4YS8V0/mRhw6yhQexwCp7gj8KRrzS2tI7cwXe2NmZf3y /wAQAP8AB7CoZgZtIt5Mlmid42/2V4I/Ml/yPpWc33jRGN9WyKlbkdoxVmuxr2t7pdrdxXCQ Xe6Nw4/fL1HP9yo9+kNyILvP/XZf/iKy6v6VDHPqFukozEXG/wD3e/6ZocUtbk060ptU+Vav t3DVIYra/lgiDqqYBVzkq2BuB4HQ5qTT/wDjw1H/AK5L/wCjEqnPK9zcSSyNud23Mx7k960r S0nh0u/klhkSN4V2uVOD86ng0SfupMqnaVaUorT3vyZBrP8Ax/g/9MYf/Ra1mmtnVrS4Mi3C wSGDyIv3m0lfuKOv14rHPWnD4UZYmLVWTa3YlFFFWc4Vqac7R6fqBUkHyl5H/XRKy61NMjkm s7+KNGdzCMKoyT861E9jowt/aab2f5EdvaX12fOht55hnBZEJ/UU7WgV1IhvvCKLI99i5qxe x3Fto9oksckL+dLkMpU4wmP61kliz5Y5PrnNKOr5jWs1CHstW3Zu/p/wS/ZkPpV9ER0CSj6h tuPyc/pWaww2K0tGw2oRQkf64GLPpuBXP61nSffPrVLdmNTWlCXqvu1/UbWlpg2RXdwDhooT j33EIf0Y1m1pLmDQ+gxcTdcdNg/+z/SiWwYfSTl2X9fiUgMt+NbGoWV7dXCPBa3EkJhiCssZ K/6te4461ik46GtLR7iQ6vZLuO0SrwenWlPTVGmGlCX7uV9WtgtHY2GoKWOBEvB/30rLbG7j pWzFY3Vvp+oPcW80QMS4LoRn51rGPWiFtRYnmSjzdv1YlFFFWcoVIkpQfKzA+xxUdFA02tUT GYsBuZiR69qZnJplOHAFCQOTb1JYmZHR0bDA8HPStDUdLupb6SW1s5mgkxJGUQkAMMgfhnH4 Vlg46U/z5OzsB6ZqWne6Nqc4KDhO/wAiwNH1E/8ALjcf9+jUmpA20drZuhWWGIGQEEfMx3d/ 9kgfhVPz5AOJGz9ajdi7Escn1NKzvqNzpqDVNO77iEg09HCnPI+lR0VZzkpnYrgsxHpUZOTS UUWG5OWrYUUUUCIPtH+x+tH2j/Y/WoKKAJ/tH+x+tL9p/wBj9ar0UAWPtP8AsfrR9p/2P1qv RQBP9p/2P1o+0/7H61BRQBP9o/2P1o+0f7H61BRQBP8AaP8AY/Wj7R/sfrUFFAE/2j/Y/Wio KKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigD//Z --------------3A5CAF4B0E-- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 14:05:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 14:05:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:07:32 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: NOS AY3-8912's found! Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >While I was at lunch picking up the 24 pin headers for Mark, for yucks >I asked "You don't have any AY3-8912's do you?" AND THEY BROUGHT BACK >A BIN WITH 20 of EM! I bought 10 (They were 5.50 ea) and i'll be sending >8 to Mark along with 25 of the crimp on 24 pin DIP headers. > >If we need more, i'll pick up the rest... Might be a smart idea-- my guys came up empty. :-/ -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 14:20:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 14:20:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:21:58 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Anyone else found any Lost Vector Graphics!!?? Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >I found this graphic and lots more in the Major Havoc Vector ROM's last >night. I talked to owen and he had originally designed this robot to be >in the maze as well but it never made it. It was inspired by Maximillian >from the Black Hole movie. Had anyone found any "left out" vector in the >sega ROM's yet? Just wanted to show this since it is kinda neat! Cool! That's great! I've run across all sorts of weird stuff in the Sega vector ROMs, but since I've only played Star Trek (recently) I don't remember enough of what each game was like to *really* tell if something's used or not... There are some weird things in the Sega ROMs though, lots of graphics repeated, and general "wasteful" things. (BTW, glad you got your vector viewer working! I'd like to check it out, except that seeing something run under '95 will probably make me jealous and start a big "recode VSNOOP for Win '95" distraction that I don't really want to chase after... ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 14:24:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 14:24:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:24:05 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Short term plans (was RE: list charter) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com what i've been doing is 1) hunting for parts (Clay and Mark needed some stuff and I know lots of weird parts stores here in the valley) 2) getting the new CPU prototyped I've decided just to tack wires onto the backplane and use a normal wirewrap breadboard. I didn't realize the speech board used a weird decoder part, so I'm back to using an HC11 for speech I/O 3) working on the emulator I need this to get the new game(s) done. It is in C, so if someone wants to port it to an X86 that's fine. I'll be giving the code to the people doing MAME, so they'll probably take care of the X86 port. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 14:47:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 14:46:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 6 May 97 14:46 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970506144226.2c6fd192@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: list charter Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 03:33 PM 5/6/97 -0500, you wrote: >On May 6, 3:07pm, Ray Ghanbari wrote: >> Subject: Re: list charter >> You wrote: >> >> NB this is where Clay/Zonn/Mark/Dave/etc. need to step in with some juicy >> techie stuff to save me from myself ;-) > >Are you kidding me?? I don't have a CLUE what a PIC is (ice pick? toothpic?). > I'm much more into applying ("Let's power it up and see what it does") than >speculating ("What if we used a DAC to shift the lower bits to make a pig >fly?") :-) > >The only problem with a project of this magnatude (Sega XY multigame/new >hardware) is that a lot of theorizing goes on and ideas, and (not all the time, >but most of the time) nothing gets done because 1) There are so many ways to do >it and no one can agree which way to do it, 2) Everyone likes the idea right >now, but it's actually item #307 on their "TO DO" list, and 3) by the time you >DO get to it, the excitement of it is lost so you just don't :-). > >Whereas I'm the type to just say "Here's the hardware, enjoy!" :-) > >PS. Don't get me wrong; I'd love to see this project actually come to pass; I >think it's everyone's right to enjoy Sega XY game (I love 'em!). As soon as >David Fish has the code re-written to play them without the special chips, no >one will be limited by the ability to obtain rare hardware. I'd also like to >see a PC emulator written. In my opinion, a multigame is #3 behind these other >two projects. I for one completely agree! How do I plan on playing multiple games? Wire up enough switches and connectors on a control panel to switch between all the games. Have enough boards laying around to switch in the game I want to play. As long as I can say "Go get a beer and I'll hook up Zektor" and can have it working when he/she gets back, then what more do you need in a multi-game? When the security chips are no longer a problem I might bank some things, but I'll just use a switch, some glue logic (or maybe a PIC ;-), even then I'll just open the coin box, flip a switch (or seven what do I care how many switches?), press reset and a walla a new game. With all the boards Mark apparently has on hand, why re-design anything? Still it's fun to talk about... -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 14:51:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 14:51:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:46:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Dangerwil@aol.com Message-ID: <970506172457_-1064482137@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Short term plans (was RE: list charter) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Dave, Don't want to add to your "junk" e-mail, but I would like to purchase any and all upgrades or security free software for the Sega G-80 X-Y system. I have been at trying to find g-80 stuff since about '87. I was the guy who found the Battlestar flyer!!! :) Please let me know when anything becomes available. Dying to play ZEKTOR again. Bill From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 14:56:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 14:56:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:58:01 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Short term plans (was RE: list charter) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I like Al's idea, here's my "status report": Clay's long term goal-- make new games for the Sega G-80 system. Steps: 1) Understand the Sega Vector Generator (SVG) enough to create a program to view the graphics in the game ROMs. (Done-- VSNOOP) 2) Given understanding of the SVG create an editing program to create new graphics from existing vector formats and from scratch. (Done- G80ED) 3) Write a menuing system to support launching multiple games from a single card in the G-80 bus. (Basics of a multi-game system, and basics of programming for the G-80) (In process) 4) Design/build/produce a card for the G-80 card bus that supports multiple games and a development environment. (In process) As an aside I've been doing a lot of general "glue" type stuff (input switcher, Wells Gardner Monitor adapter, etc) to make it feasible for people without convert-a-game cabinets (like me) to put together a working system. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 15:07:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 15:06:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:08:17 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Multigame idea #153263 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I was looking over the CPU/Speech boards last night thinking about how little I'd enjoy trying to recreate them in a new version, when another idea hit me... The CPU board is a likely candidate for the "host" board for a multi-game add-on. The idea here is to simply remove the security chip, remove the "boot" EPROM, and remove the Z-80.... ...I can make a small daughtercard that plugs into the Z-80 socket. The daughtercard can have a single PAL, a 27C020 (256Kx8 EPROM), a 27C64 (8Kx8 menu code), a Z-80, and a PIC. Probably some resistors and stuff too, but that's no big deal. Since the control inputs come in on the CPU board anyway, it makes the control input router (the PIC) a lot easier to deal with, and since the Z-80 has all the control signals that's pretty clean too. That's a lot smaller than a G-80 bus card which keeps the price down, and it saves us a slot since it'd get rid of the EPROM board. (There's really not any reason that it couldn't have the SRAM and serial ports for a development board either, but this might make for a good "multigame only" type of board.) Any thoughts? -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 15:16:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 15:16:10 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 6 May 97 15:14 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970506151144.17a78434@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: Short term plans (was RE: list charter) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 04:51 PM 5/6/97 -0400, you wrote: >> >>>PS. Don't get me wrong; I'd love to see this project actually come to pass; >>>I >>>think it's everyone's right to enjoy Sega XY game (I love 'em!). As soon as >>>David Fish has the code re-written to play them without the special chips, >>>no >>>one will be limited by the ability to obtain rare hardware. I'd also like >>>to >>>see a PC emulator written. In my opinion, a multigame is #3 behind these >>>other >>>two projects. > >To keep everybody happy I plan on releasing the 'SC-free' version >of Zektor first. I estimate that it should be ready 2 weeks after I >get my hands on the security chip which is on the way. The other >programs will be released when Clay's protoboard is finished. >(no pressure Clay!). The alpha version of Space Fury has been >sent to a beta test facility, Clay again ;-) If people think that I >should do otherwise, let me know. I hate to be a poor sport, but if I had a copy of SC free Space Fury, then I could dedicate one CPU to Space Fury and one to Tac/Scan and not have to swap EPROMs/Security chips. I for one would rather all the games be made available as they're cracked, I'm not really that interested in a front end menu system. I'd prefer just to plug the game in and *poof* Tac/Scan just like the Arcades. I also don't mind owning more than one cabinet, in which case I'd rather not go through a menu each time I turn on the game, but instead just have the game match the cabinet. This is *NOT* to say anything against a menu! It's just that I've gone through a lot of effort to collect games with all the artwork intact, 99% of my games have a dedicated cabinet (and reside at friends' houses throughout the county! Hey I live in a condo!) So when someone comes by and says "Cool Zektor! I remember that game!" (Yeah right.), he can plug it in and not say "What's going on here? Is this some type of test mode? What do I do?" Ok so it wouldn't be that hard for him to figure out the menu, point is I'm a purist -- but I don't think anyone is going to notice the missing security chips, and I don't have all the cabinets for dedicated machines, so I'll bend the rules a little (Personally I'd rather have a security chip in each game! Ok, so I'm a little obsessive!), and I guess I'd rather not wait until a fully functional, multi-game platform, playable on any monitor, is developed. Hopefully I speak for those of us who have working convert-a-cabinets, with functioning GO-8 monitors, who would just like to play the games as they were. And if not, it won't be the first time my opinions run counter to everyone else in existence -- I'm used to it. Just an opinion. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 15:27:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 15:26:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705062230.SAA28442@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:22:21 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "Multigame idea #153263" (May 6, 3:08pm) References: <199705062211.SAA27082@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Multigame idea #153263 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 6, 3:08pm, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Subject: Multigame idea #153263 > I was looking over the CPU/Speech boards last night thinking about how > little I'd enjoy trying to recreate them in a new version, when another > idea hit me... > > The CPU board is a likely candidate for the "host" board for a multi-game > add-on. The idea here is to simply remove the security chip, remove the > "boot" EPROM, and remove the Z-80.... > > ...I can make a small daughtercard that plugs into the Z-80 socket. The > daughtercard can have a single PAL, a 27C020 (256Kx8 EPROM), a 27C64 (8Kx8 > menu code), a Z-80, and a PIC. Probably some resistors and stuff too, but > that's no big deal. Since the control inputs come in on the CPU board > anyway, it makes the control input router (the PIC) a lot easier to deal > with, and since the Z-80 has all the control signals that's pretty clean > too. > > That's a lot smaller than a G-80 bus card which keeps the price down, and > it saves us a slot since it'd get rid of the EPROM board. > > (There's really not any reason that it couldn't have the SRAM and serial > ports for a development board either, but this might make for a good > "multigame only" type of board.) > > Any thoughts? Very minor note: A daughter card for the CPU would make sense to me (In fact, that's how I thought it would be done), but the additional room needed would mean that the CPU card would have to be in the slot closest to the 10pin connector. My small note is that some of the sound boards (Space Fury specifically) have large capacitors on them that require them to be put in this slot. To move it to another slot, you will have to modify the board (remove the capacitor and mount another one differently). As I said, it's a small note :-) But it DOES make it a &$%@ to test out these sound boards, as the harness is usually in the way for any card in this slot... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 15:30:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 15:29:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:25:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Hedley Rainnie X-Sender: hedley@canada To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: status reports Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Here are some projects that interest me. They are organized by priority. 1) Quantum. I borrowed the STonX emulator that is a gcc based 68k emulator. (I say gcc since it really needs it, lots of void *p=&&label; goto *p; flavor of code). This allowed my linux compiled version to at least display the Quantum spash screen. Something then goes wrong. I am not certain AVG interpretation is correct. Diags don't come up. STonX's emulator is of fairly good quality so it is less likely to be a bug in that and more likely an interface issue. 2) Gravitar et al: Code study of the binary, reducing the code to basic blocks in preparation for binary translation to x86 assembly. Gravitars flow graph keeps xvcg busy for 5 minutes on my pentium pro. Code study needs to be finished. Ideally the blocks are register and flag accurate at the boundaries, later interblock optimization can be investigated. I want to do this for the 68k also ultimately. Readers of 2) may ask why? answer: why not! binary translation is a fascinating subject and is ideally explored in such a fine closed system as a video game. 3) Audio: I am interested in simulation of analog audio boards to collect samples from them. This is a low noise path to collecting good quality samples. A board like a Star Castle has many transistors and caps controlling the various sounds (and a 555...) a spice simulation of the board would slowly yield each sound which would get sampled and then played back at real time for sound during emulation. Hedley hedley@8x8.com | 8x8, Inc hedley@netcom.com | Santa Clara, CA. (408) 654-0883 From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 15:49:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 15:48:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: jeffh@mail.diac.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 16:44:00 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: jeffh@diac.com (Jeff Hendrix) Subject: Re: Anyone else found any Lost Vector Graphics!!?? Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Jess, Does owen or anybody else have the code to major havoc with the star castle level in it? -jeff >I found this graphic and lots more in the Major Havoc Vector ROM's last >night. I talked to owen and he had originally designed this robot to be >in the maze as well but it never made it. It was inspired by Maximillian >from the Black Hole movie. Had anyone found any "left out" vector in the >sega ROM's yet? Just wanted to show this since it is kinda neat! > :-) >-- >Jess Askey Atari Game Page:http://magenta.com/havoc >ESLB\The Audio Analyst >509 S 2nd St Unit B Wanted: Atari I,Robot PCB >Laramie, WY 82070 Data East Speed Buggy PCB >(307)721-9001 Atari Quantum PCB > >Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:max.jpg (JPEG/JVWR) (0000CFD6) jeffh@diac.com Buy/Sell/Trade classic video arcade games. www.diac.com/~jeffh/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 16:45:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 16:44:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <336FC1EB.3E2F@links.magenta.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 17:42:35 -0600 From: Jess Askey X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: list charter References: <2.2.16.19970506144226.2c6fd192@pop3.concentric.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I personally really like the vectorlist even though Im not in on the conversation lately. If this list gets public or made into a newsgroup we will just have to filter through all the "Where can I find "vector game X" messages. Granted, this list is big and it generates alot of mail right now, but that will all settle down eventually a bit and besides, on this list Clay, Mark, Al and (people I missed) bounced so many ideas off each other, that the process of creating this G-80 multigame beast has been refined and improved. $.02 -- Jess Askey Atari Game Page:http://magenta.com/havoc ESLB\The Audio Analyst 509 S 2nd St Unit B Wanted: Atari I,Robot PCB Laramie, WY 82070 Data East Speed Buggy PCB (307)721-9001 Atari Quantum PCB From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 16:53:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 16:53:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <336FC3E8.7E7C@links.magenta.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 17:51:04 -0600 From: Jess Askey X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Anyone else found any Lost Vector Graphics!!?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Jeff Hendrix wrote: > > Jess, > Does owen or anybody else have the code to major havoc with the > star castle level in it? not in it's entirety. O.R. has given me detailed descriptions and Im currently trying to re-create them (to his approval) for my update ROM set. Once I get this Vector Viewer done I can start on the MH project again for the summer and maybe even finish. :-) -- Jess Askey Atari Game Page:http://magenta.com/havoc ESLB\The Audio Analyst 509 S 2nd St Unit B Wanted: Atari I,Robot PCB Laramie, WY 82070 Data East Speed Buggy PCB (307)721-9001 Atari Quantum PCB From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 17:01:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:00:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:02:38 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: G-80 programming... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I suspect this will be a question for a rather limited group of you, but in case there's general interest: In my tinkering with the menu system I've been merging my code into the "boot" ROM and having it run from inside the NMI (test switch) area. This seems to work just fine, but it's a pain to build the executable with that, so I decided to just sit down and write something from scratch. Ran into a little problem. For some reason, although I can copy known good vector data into the vector generator memory area, it doesn't seem to display properly. A quick snoop-around with the Fluke 9010A reveals that everything is where it's *supposed* to be, yet the shapes don't appear properly on the screen. I have interrupts turned off on the Z-80 (except NMI of course), but that shouldn't matter (since the Vector Generator is running async to what the Z-80 is up to). So I'm a little confused... Any thoughts? It's almost like there's a register somewhere that needs to be set for the Vector Generator to work properly that I just don't know to set... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 17:09:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:09:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:10:54 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Short term plans (was RE: list charter) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >I for one would rather all the games be made available as they're cracked, >I'm not really that interested in a front end menu system. I'd prefer just >to plug the game in and *poof* Tac/Scan just like the Arcades. The only "gotcha" there is that I've noticed that the big card edge connectors on my "test" G-80 system are already showing signs of wear in the slots that I frequently plug/unplug cards into. (Not a show stopper, but something to consider-- they might not be the best "high volume" insertion/removal connectors...) >This is *NOT* to say anything against a menu! It's just that I've gone >through a lot of effort to collect games with all the artwork intact, 99% of >my games have a dedicated cabinet (and reside at friends' houses throughout >the county! Hey I live in a condo!) That's right-- you better not be talk'n bad `bout my menu system! ;-) For what it's worth, the menu system should boot to whatever "game 0" is-- for example Star Trek. Unless you press and hold P1 start and P2 start at the same time, you wouldn't see the menu. I thought about putting a little serial NOVRAM out in memory to store the "current" boot game, but that actually complicates things a bit. (Weak pulldowns will insure that image 0 always starts at boot time, since it's actually the game's ROM from 0x0000-0x7ff that's executing at powerup time... The menu code lives up in 0xF000 and is only called by the NMI vector.) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 17:09:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:09:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:11:03 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: list charter Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Wire up enough switches and connectors on a control panel to switch between >all the games. Have enough boards laying around to switch in the game I want >to play. [...] >When the security chips are no longer a problem I might bank some things, >but I'll just use a switch, some glue logic (or maybe a PIC ;-), even then >I'll just open the coin box, flip a switch (or seven what do I care how many >switches?), press reset and a walla a new game. *Ewwwwww* Kludge alert! Kludge alert! Just messing w/you Zonn... :-) I always prefer a quick/easy to use multigame. I don't like to play a single game to death, rather I like to play on game "X" for a while then game "Y" then... You get the idea. :-) It's a lot like the SW/ESB kits. ESB isn't the greatest game, BUT when you can flip a switch and play it for an hour or something and then switch back without a problem (or yanking stuff from inside) it's pretty cool. It's the kind of thing I can leave with Tara's little siblings and not worry about them destroying it-- and it seems to appeal to the more "consumer" level collectors too. I want to do nice, menu driven Sega multigame board for my personal use, so if anyone else likes the idea I'll certainly share the method to do it. (And since my tolerance of wire-wrapping "one of a kinds" has eroded to nil, I'll probably make some sort of plug-in kit printed circuit board to do it. ;-) Like I said earlier, I've been having fun writing Vectrex games for a while, but I want to have some new (better) hardware to play with. I'd really like to get a system working where those of us that like to write games on these old hardware platforms can do so, and be able to give something to an average person and have them plug it in and play a new game. (The G-80 system kinda has me re-thinking the RetroVector platform I was working on -- I could probably make a new CPU/Sound combo board with a G-80 compatible bus interface and get a lot of mileage out of the existing G-80 vector hardware... Especially once programming "ground rules" are established for how to make sure a game runs on a Wells Gardner color monitor without any glitches.) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 17:13:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:12:44 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:12:40 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: G80 CPU daughter card Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com A little card like that would take care of the hassle of changing all those stupid 2716s to change a game, and does make it a more doable project. Given the limited 'market' for such a thing something simple is probably best. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 17:16:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:15:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 6 May 97 17:14 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970506171125.30afe226@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: Anyone else found any Lost Vector Graphics!!?? Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 05:51 PM 5/6/97 -0600, you wrote: >Jeff Hendrix wrote: >> >> Jess, >> Does owen or anybody else have the code to major havoc with the >> star castle level in it? > >not in it's entirety. O.R. has given me detailed descriptions and Im >currently trying to re-create them (to his approval) for my update ROM >set. Once I get this Vector Viewer done I can start on the MH project >again for the summer and maybe even finish. :-) If it'll help I have a vector viewer for Tempest that a wrote over a year ago (before I started reading RGVAC). I don't know if Tempest and Major Havoc use similar vector engines or not, but I was able to dump the full Tempest Generator ROMs and find all the little pictures of explosions, and of course the word TEMPEST. It handled all the Linear and Binary scaling, and included the full color palette (it re-programmed the VGA color registers to the same RGB values as Tempest, and then setup the palette register to echo that of Tempest), and it's also been over a year since I looked at it, so I'd have to dig it up. I'd of mentioned this earlier but I didn't know anyone was working on this. I guess that's what mailing list are for huh? -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 17:20:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:20:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:20:30 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Anyone else found any Lost Vector Graphics!!?? Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com There was a lot of activity last year, when Eric Smith got enough of the math box going to be able to play BattleZone and Red Baron on his simulator. The folks working on MAME have the code now, and are trying to get it integrated. ..and I've been busy on other projects :-) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 17:27:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 17:26:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 6 May 97 17:25 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970506172222.2bbf68a8@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: Anyone else found any Lost Vector Graphics!!?? Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 05:20 PM 5/6/97 -0700, you wrote: >There was a lot of activity last year, when Eric Smith got enough of the >math box going to be able to play BattleZone and Red Baron on his simulator. >The folks working on MAME have the code now, and are trying to get it integrated. > >..and I've been busy on other projects :-) Well that reminds me of another old Tempest project, is anybody interested in a Mathbox dis-assembler? It sounds like Eric already has one, and I only took my to the point of having a first pass translation of the mathbox to x86 code, and I never tested it. But either way, if anyone is interested let me know and I'll give you what I got. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 18:10:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 18:10:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 6 May 97 18:08 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970506180541.2bbf665e@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: Short term plans (was RE: list charter) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 05:10 PM 5/6/97 -0800, you wrote: >>I for one would rather all the games be made available as they're cracked, >>I'm not really that interested in a front end menu system. I'd prefer just >>to plug the game in and *poof* Tac/Scan just like the Arcades. > >The only "gotcha" there is that I've noticed that the big card edge >connectors on my "test" G-80 system are already showing signs of wear in >the slots that I frequently plug/unplug cards into. (Not a show stopper, >but something to consider-- they might not be the best "high volume" >insertion/removal connectors...) > >>This is *NOT* to say anything against a menu! It's just that I've gone >>through a lot of effort to collect games with all the artwork intact, 99% of >>my games have a dedicated cabinet (and reside at friends' houses throughout >>the county! Hey I live in a condo!) > >That's right-- you better not be talk'n bad `bout my menu system! ;-) Not a chance Clay! How's that song go? You don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit in the wind, you don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger and you don't say shit about anybody's software. Ok so it doesn't rhyme, that's why I write code for a living and not songs... > >For what it's worth, the menu system should boot to whatever "game 0" is-- >for example Star Trek. Unless you press and hold P1 start and P2 start at >the same time, you wouldn't see the menu. I thought about putting a little >serial NOVRAM out in memory to store the "current" boot game, but that >actually complicates things a bit. (Weak pulldowns will insure that image >0 always starts at boot time, since it's actually the game's ROM from >0x0000-0x7ff that's executing at powerup time... The menu code lives up in >0xF000 and is only called by the NMI vector.) Place the bank selection into the PIC processor used to re-map the keyboard. If you use a PIC with built in EEPROM, it can remember the setting itself and set the banking on power up. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 18:10:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 18:10:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 6 May 97 18:08 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970506180553.2197f9c4@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: list charter Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 05:11 PM 5/6/97 -0800, you wrote: >>Wire up enough switches and connectors on a control panel to switch between >>all the games. Have enough boards laying around to switch in the game I want >>to play. >[...] >>When the security chips are no longer a problem I might bank some things, >>but I'll just use a switch, some glue logic (or maybe a PIC ;-), even then >>I'll just open the coin box, flip a switch (or seven what do I care how many >>switches?), press reset and a walla a new game. > >*Ewwwwww* Kludge alert! Kludge alert! > >Just messing w/you Zonn... :-) > >I always prefer a quick/easy to use multigame. I don't like to play a >single game to death, rather I like to play on game "X" for a while then >game "Y" then... You get the idea. :-) > >It's a lot like the SW/ESB kits. ESB isn't the greatest game, BUT when you >can flip a switch and play it for an hour or something and then switch back >without a problem (or yanking stuff from inside) it's pretty cool. A "switch"??? Kludge!! One switch, seven switches all in a row? What's the diff? (Just messin' a little myself! ;-) >It's >the kind of thing I can leave with Tara's little siblings and not worry >about them destroying it-- and it seems to appeal to the more "consumer" >level collectors too. > >I want to do nice, menu driven Sega multigame board for my personal use, so >if anyone else likes the idea I'll certainly share the method to do it. >(And since my tolerance of wire-wrapping "one of a kinds" has eroded to >nil, I'll probably make some sort of plug-in kit printed circuit board to >do it. ;-) > >Like I said earlier, I've been having fun writing Vectrex games for a >while, but I want to have some new (better) hardware to play with. I'd >really like to get a system working where those of us that like to write >games on these old hardware platforms can do so, and be able to give >something to an average person and have them plug it in and play a new >game. > >(The G-80 system kinda has me re-thinking the RetroVector platform I was >working on -- I could probably make a new CPU/Sound combo board with a >G-80 compatible bus interface and get a lot of mileage out of the existing >G-80 vector hardware... Especially once programming "ground rules" are >established for how to make sure a game runs on a Wells Gardner color >monitor without any glitches.) I knew when I sent the other message that I hadn't worded it right! Let me make it clear, I'd love to have a menuing system! Count me in when it's done! What I'd like is to have maybe a dedicated cabinet or two, and then a universal one to play "all the rest" (or is that Professor and Marian -- sorry I just want to go home.) And the ESB/StarWars switch that you and Cliff came up with is cool, I've installed a few myself. No I guess the problem I had with Dave's schedule, is that nothing was to be released until your board(s) were done (or maybe just Zektor if I read it right), then in the next message from you, you seemed to indicate that in order for you to finish work on the boardset, you need to be able to run the games on non-standard Sega gear, so you then need to work on getting a Sega to WG convertor up and working (Could someone just lend Clay a Go-8?), and you'll need to fully understand the Vector generator in order to write the menu system. Then of course there's the time needed to layout the board after you've done the schematic capture, or worse, layout the board by hand. And the turn around time for the initial board to be made (and any needed revisions). A lot of work, and it's to be commended! I don't have that kind of time! And when it's done, man, I'd love to have a copy! I'd *like* a hardware platform with serial ports for debugging/hacking code. And given the choice between a nice banked menu driven selection system, and a row of switches, hell I'll take the menu anyday! I just didn't see the logic of having to wait for all this to be finished before Dave's beautifully hacked code was released to the public, since all that nicely hacked code would run just fine on someone's old Star Trek boardset in the meantime. Am I missing something? -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 19:07:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:07:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970506190509.007f9d40@ng.netgate.net> X-Sender: grigsby@ng.netgate.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 19:05:09 -0700 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: The Grigsbeast Subject: vector systems for the '90s? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >(The G-80 system kinda has me re-thinking the RetroVector platform I was >working on -- I could probably make a new CPU/Sound combo board with a >G-80 compatible bus interface and get a lot of mileage out of the existing >G-80 vector hardware... Especially once programming "ground rules" are >established for how to make sure a game runs on a Wells Gardner color >monitor without any glitches.) Why hobble yourself by working on a Z-80 or other ancient pile of junk? You can get used x86s for just about free these days. Just get a cheap ISA card with some reasonably fast DACs and you can drive the beam around almost entirely with software. Basically you "sample" the beam deflection and color sequence for a shape and (optionally) transform it. Just imagine drawing Bezier curves on a vector monitor with smoothly shaded color gradations...oooh, sexy. And you don't have to put together a hairy development system or anything else; just run your favorite C compiler. Plus, with a lot of computing horsepower, you can optimize the display list to get maximum vector draw (and minimum drive transistor strain) instead of having to dumbly return to center after everything. This thought has been kicking around in my head for awhile (back at Atari we wanted to use a DSP-based sound card to generate the vector shapes) but I never got around to it. // grigs From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 19:21:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:20:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Message-Id: <9705061804.AA29992@savage.raleigh.ibm.com> Subject: Re: Cinematronics XY characteristics To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:04:03 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970506101609.17a7a462@pop3.concentric.net> from "Zonn" at May 6, 97 10:19:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 439 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Zonn, Thanks for the info. I'll let you know when I get a board laid-out. Don't anyone be in too big a hurry, I'm a busy procrastinator... :-) +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John W. Linville To Be, Rather Than To Seem. | | linvjw@vnet.ibm.com http://www4.ncsu.edu/eos/users/j/jwlinvi/www | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 19:26:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:25:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:25:44 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: programming old piles of junk Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Oh, John, you're no fun! I've been kicking around using the G80 stuff for new games for a LONG time (my first two games 10 years ago were Tempest and TAC/SCAN). I had thought about doing it for an Atari board, but it is pretty tough to build a ROM adapter on one of the Atari boards (the only way to do it is piggy back it onto the CPU, then what do you do about the vector ROMS..) The G80 is nice and modular, uses a Z80 (which a wrote a LOT of code for in the late 70's..) and with a little work could be made to play all the games from a single card cage. The problem was I had no idea how to deal with the custom parts on the CPU, which appears to be in the process of being taken care of. ..and there is the issue of rotating the tube for tac/scan From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 6 19:28:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 6 May 1997 19:27:50 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 21:48:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Ed Henciak X-Sender: ethst3@unixs4.cis.pitt.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: list charter In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970506180553.2197f9c4@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I'd be more than happy to lend Clay all my boards for the G08...they aren't working right now, (Any color vector tube will work with this I believe) but I just ordered a kit from Zanen which I am praying will fix whatever the hell is up with this thing. If I get it up and running, I'll ship it at his request. The thought of a Sega multigame is amazing, and having a direct substitution for a friggin G08 would be a Godsend!!! Take it easy! Ed On Tue, 6 May 1997, Zonn wrote: > At 05:11 PM 5/6/97 -0800, you wrote: > >>Wire up enough switches and connectors on a control panel to switch between > >>all the games. Have enough boards laying around to switch in the game I want > >>to play. > >[...] > >>When the security chips are no longer a problem I might bank some things, > >>but I'll just use a switch, some glue logic (or maybe a PIC ;-), even then > >>I'll just open the coin box, flip a switch (or seven what do I care how many > >>switches?), press reset and a walla a new game. > > > >*Ewwwwww* Kludge alert! Kludge alert! > > > >Just messing w/you Zonn... :-) > > > >I always prefer a quick/easy to use multigame. I don't like to play a > >single game to death, rather I like to play on game "X" for a while then > >game "Y" then... You get the idea. :-) > > > >It's a lot like the SW/ESB kits. ESB isn't the greatest game, BUT when you > >can flip a switch and play it for an hour or something and then switch back > >without a problem (or yanking stuff from inside) it's pretty cool. > > A "switch"??? Kludge!! One switch, seven switches all in a row? What's > the diff? (Just messin' a little myself! ;-) > > >It's > >the kind of thing I can leave with Tara's little siblings and not worry > >about them destroying it-- and it seems to appeal to the more "consumer" > >level collectors too. > > > >I want to do nice, menu driven Sega multigame board for my personal use, so > >if anyone else likes the idea I'll certainly share the method to do it. > >(And since my tolerance of wire-wrapping "one of a kinds" has eroded to > >nil, I'll probably make some sort of plug-in kit printed circuit board to > >do it. ;-) > > > >Like I said earlier, I've been having fun writing Vectrex games for a > >while, but I want to have some new (better) hardware to play with. I'd > >really like to get a system working where those of us that like to write > >games on these old hardware platforms can do so, and be able to give > >something to an average person and have them plug it in and play a new > >game. > > > >(The G-80 system kinda has me re-thinking the RetroVector platform I was > >working on -- I could probably make a new CPU/Sound combo board with a > >G-80 compatible bus interface and get a lot of mileage out of the existing > >G-80 vector hardware... Especially once programming "ground rules" are > >established for how to make sure a game runs on a Wells Gardner color > >monitor without any glitches.) > > I knew when I sent the other message that I hadn't worded it right! > > Let me make it clear, I'd love to have a menuing system! Count me in when > it's done! What I'd like is to have maybe a dedicated cabinet or two, and > then a universal one to play "all the rest" (or is that Professor and Marian > -- sorry I just want to go home.) > > And the ESB/StarWars switch that you and Cliff came up with is cool, I've > installed a few myself. > > No I guess the problem I had with Dave's schedule, is that nothing was to be > released until your board(s) were done (or maybe just Zektor if I read it > right), then in the next message from you, you seemed to indicate that in > order for you to finish work on the boardset, you need to be able to run the > games on non-standard Sega gear, so you then need to work on getting a Sega > to WG convertor up and working (Could someone just lend Clay a Go-8?), and > you'll need to fully understand the Vector generator in order to write the > menu system. > > Then of course there's the time needed to layout the board after you've done > the schematic capture, or worse, layout the board by hand. And the turn > around time for the initial board to be made (and any needed revisions). > > A lot of work, and it's to be commended! I don't have that kind of time! > > And when it's done, man, I'd love to have a copy! I'd *like* a hardware > platform with serial ports for debugging/hacking code. And given the choice > between a nice banked menu driven selection system, and a row of switches, > hell I'll take the menu anyday! > > I just didn't see the logic of having to wait for all this to be finished > before Dave's beautifully hacked code was released to the public, since all > that nicely hacked code would run just fine on someone's old Star Trek > boardset in the meantime. Am I missing something? > > -Zonn > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 7 15:11:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 15:11:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:13:14 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Short term plans (was RE: list charter) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >>For what it's worth, the menu system should boot to whatever "game 0" is-- >>for example Star Trek. Unless you press and hold P1 start and P2 start at >>the same time, you wouldn't see the menu. I thought about putting a little >>serial NOVRAM out in memory to store the "current" boot game, but that >>actually complicates things a bit. (Weak pulldowns will insure that image >>0 always starts at boot time, since it's actually the game's ROM from >>0x0000-0x7ff that's executing at powerup time... The menu code lives up in >>0xF000 and is only called by the NMI vector.) > >Place the bank selection into the PIC processor used to re-map the keyboard. >If you use a PIC with built in EEPROM, it can remember the setting itself >and set the banking on power up. Hmmmm. That's a thought. Do you know of any PICs other than the 16C8x family that have onboard EEPROM for data storage? (I might want more than the 13 I/O lines there... Haven't really looked it over that closely yet.) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 7 15:23:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 15:23:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 7 May 97 15:21 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970507151845.2497c8f2@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: Short term plans (was RE: list charter) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 03:13 PM 5/7/97 -0800, you wrote: >>>For what it's worth, the menu system should boot to whatever "game 0" is-- >>>for example Star Trek. Unless you press and hold P1 start and P2 start at >>>the same time, you wouldn't see the menu. I thought about putting a little >>>serial NOVRAM out in memory to store the "current" boot game, but that >>>actually complicates things a bit. (Weak pulldowns will insure that image >>>0 always starts at boot time, since it's actually the game's ROM from >>>0x0000-0x7ff that's executing at powerup time... The menu code lives up in >>>0xF000 and is only called by the NMI vector.) >> >>Place the bank selection into the PIC processor used to re-map the keyboard. >>If you use a PIC with built in EEPROM, it can remember the setting itself >>and set the banking on power up. > >Hmmmm. That's a thought. Do you know of any PICs other than the 16C8x >family that have onboard EEPROM for data storage? (I might want more than >the 13 I/O lines there... Haven't really looked it over that closely yet.) I'm afraid I'm not up on there current offerings. I know there was talk of expanding their EEPROM line, but I'm not sure that was "More EEPROM" or "More I/O lines on EEPROM based PICs", talk. There is always the little (4 or 6 pin?) external EEPROMs which PICs talk to easily, or just use some jumpers that allow you to set the Boot game. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 7 16:22:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 16:22:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: k.gerdes@genie.com Message-Id: <199705072318.XAA06466@rockdmz1.geis.com> Date: Wed, 7 May 97 23:07:00 GMT To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com X-genie-QK-From: K.GERDES X-genie-QK-Id: 6102357 X-genie-Gateway-Id: 13448 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: GI chip Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Not sure if this is the right chip... I ran across the following board today: General Instrument VSM2032 Voice Synthesis Module o Complete speech system o Simple digital interface o Calculator vocabulary o 32 words combine to form more than one-billion phrases 3 chips on the board: 1) SP-0250 Orator GI8136 2) PIC 1650A GI8133 3) RO-3-9333 32K ROM GI8144 [only the ROM is socketed] 15-pin edge connector: 1) 5V 9) S5 2) n.c. 10) S6 3) /RESET 11) BUSY 4) S0 12) n.c. 5) S1 13) STROBE 6) S2 14) SPKRET 7) S3 15) SPK 8) S4 Rough count of 26 boards - all still in "retail" boxes FWIW. - Keith (713)771-8332 From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 7 16:27:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 16:27:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:27:52 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: GI chip Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com It might be, Clay would probably know more though. If it was an evaluation kit, the documentation on the chips themselves would be worth it! From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 7 17:10:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 7 May 1997 17:10:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 7 May 97 17:08 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970507170540.2b973e32@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: GI chip Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 11:07 PM 5/7/97 GMT, you wrote: I just ran across the "spec" sheets for the SP-250, over at a friends house. (About the time Gorf came out I went down to Radio Shack and bought the SP-256, then wrote a Text-to-Speech convertor just so I could get it to say "Gorfian Robots Attack Attack" -- too bad it wasn't the same chip. Anybody need a nice Text-to-Speech convertor written in 6800 assembly language? Very nice algorithm, you have to be able to read the Smoke Signal Broadcasting DOS diskettes though.) So never the one to throw anything away, (me or my friend), we still had the data book. Pretty worthless from a software point of view. Clay might be interested since all it contained was two pages of interfacing information. Pinouts, clock rates and duty cycles etc. It had one paragraph, and a picture of how it works. It is a type of LPC (does TI have a patent on the term LPC, since they're the only ones I've seen use that phrase). It contains a 12 coefficient filter that models the vocal track, you send it data in 16 (or maybe it was 15?) bit chunks, two writes per chunk, and these "data chunks" set up the filters, pitches or not voiced, noise, etc. commands. I only mention all this because the next page was a one page blurb on the "SP-250" development kit. Since your description matches theirs to a "T", I'm assuming that's what you've found. The kit was to allow you to setup you're own phrases (no mention on how you did this), and then be able to test the ROM using the kit. It's basically the guts of their, later to be release, talking clock chip, using discrete components. Or same as the SP-256 with phrases in place of the phonemes. You would have to have documentation of some kind to use these, and the algorithms for compressing voice into the 12 coefficients, are very involved. Still it might be fun playing with one, but then again isn't the Sega speech card just a fancier form of their development card? Just a different processor, and a bit more ROM space. I think the funniest thing about the spec was the "over 1 billion phrases". The pre-programmed phrases consisted of clock stuff "AM", "PM", etc. It also contained all the phrases needed to count to 1 billion, so there's your "over 1 billion phrases". Leave it to those marketing types! hee hee. -Zonn >Not sure if this is the right chip... > >I ran across the following board today: > >General Instrument >VSM2032 >Voice Synthesis Module > o Complete speech system > o Simple digital interface > o Calculator vocabulary > o 32 words combine to form more than > one-billion phrases > >3 chips on the board: >1) SP-0250 Orator GI8136 > >2) PIC 1650A GI8133 > >3) RO-3-9333 32K ROM GI8144 > >[only the ROM is socketed] > > >15-pin edge connector: >1) 5V 9) S5 >2) n.c. 10) S6 >3) /RESET 11) BUSY >4) S0 12) n.c. >5) S1 13) STROBE >6) S2 14) SPKRET >7) S3 15) SPK >8) S4 > > >Rough count of 26 boards - all still in "retail" boxes FWIW. > > >- Keith > (713)771-8332 > > > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 8 08:54:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 08:54:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 08:56:09 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Space Fury/G-80 info... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Just a little update from G-80 programming land... For whatever reason, my menu system code is now working just fine. The only thing I did differently was locate the graphics off in memory up out of the "boot rom" area. I probably had an address wrong or something before. (It was pretty cool to see my graphics pop up on the monitor the first time. The editor program I wrote worked perfectly! They look much nicer on the Vector monitor than the PC too. :-) Anyway, I was experimenting last night and came up with some new trivia... 1) Regarding the WG Color Monitor and the G-80 combo: Yep, it's the parallel loads causing the occasional vector distortion. The frustrating part is that it's completely avoidable just by changing the drawing order on the screen! *sigh* Take Space Fury for example-- the right side player score "loses" part of a vector. Well, the programmers draw the "high score" (center) first, then the left side player score, THEN the right side player score. That makes for a big move for the beam (left side to right side) and it glitches. Apparently the WG monitor is OK with the deflection speed as long as (first G-80 programming rule-of-thumb:) YOU DON'T TRY TO RELOCATE THE BEAM MORE THAN 0x0200 "units" at a time. (That's about half the screen, which kinda makes sense as the WG color monitor spends most of it's life moving from the center of the screen to the object to be drawn and not from one screen corner to the other...) 2) WEIRD drawing characteristic. This is a strange one. I was testing the Wells Gardner monitor with the G-80 boardset and an adapter trying to figure out the "range" of a move that will cause a vector distortion when I noticed the following little gotcha... I had a symbol at about 0x02EF on the horizontal axis. The next symbol being drawn was at around 0x05C0. This was causing a display glitch. So, I started backing off the new x position until the glitch went away. Reduced the deflection all the way to 0x0500-- glitch was still present, although it was much smaller. Then I switched to 0x04FF. The glitch COMPLETELY disappears. (This is much stranger when you see it-- normally a change of 1 unit only made the glitch move a *tiny* amount.) The only thing I can think of is that the way the DAC Counters are loaded the high byte loads first, which causes the DACs to start deflecting immediately. So a load sequence would be like: load high nibble with 0x05 (DAC starts off for what is essentially 0x0500) load low byte with 0x00 (DAC still goes for 0x0500) vs. load high nibble with 0x04 (DAC starts heading for what is essentially 0x0400) load low byte with 0xff (DAC is now going for 0x04FF, but it's already had a jump start towards 0x0400 already, so the effect of the full deflection isn't felt.) Any guesses guys? 3) Space Fury trivia. Space Fury was my guinnea pig, so I found some stuff out as I was going along, might be useful to someone: When the game is running, the player's Ship data is loated at 0xE500 in VRAM. During gameplay, the Players ship symbol record is at 0xE0A0 " " , Center highscore list starts at 0xE190 with each digit following in 10 byte increments) During the docking phase, the player "shells" are at: left shell-- 0xE1CB top shell -- 0xE1D5 right shell-- 0xE1DF (These are probably located there the entire game, the don't seem to move stuff around in VRAM once it's running...) Left side score start at: 0xE211 The Star Field symbol record starts at: 0xE1E9 That's all for now. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 8 09:35:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 09:35:27 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3372002D.2C99@links.magenta.com> Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 10:32:45 -0600 From: Jess Askey X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Space Fury/G-80 info... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Clay Cowgill wrote: > > Just a little update from G-80 programming land... > > For whatever reason, my menu system code is now working just fine. The > only thing I did differently was locate the graphics off in memory up out > of the "boot rom" area. I probably had an address wrong or something > before. > > (It was pretty cool to see my graphics pop up on the monitor the first > time. The editor program I wrote worked perfectly! They look much nicer > on the Vector monitor than the PC too. :-) > > Anyway, I was experimenting last night and came up with some new trivia... > > 1) Regarding the WG Color Monitor and the G-80 combo: > Yep, it's the parallel loads causing the occasional vector distortion. > The frustrating part is that it's completely avoidable just by changing the > drawing order on the screen! *sigh* Take Space Fury for example-- the > right side player score "loses" part of a vector. Well, the programmers > draw the "high score" (center) first, then the left side player score, THEN > the right side player score. That makes for a big move for the beam (left > side to right side) and it glitches. Apparently the WG monitor is OK with > the deflection speed as long as (first G-80 programming rule-of-thumb:) YOU > DON'T TRY TO RELOCATE THE BEAM MORE THAN 0x0200 "units" at a time. (That's > about half the screen, which kinda makes sense as the WG color monitor > spends most of it's life moving from the center of the screen to the object > to be drawn and not from one screen corner to the other...) > > 2) WEIRD drawing characteristic. > This is a strange one. I was testing the Wells Gardner monitor with the > G-80 boardset and an adapter trying to figure out the "range" of a move > that will cause a vector distortion when I noticed the following little > gotcha... I had a symbol at about 0x02EF on the horizontal axis. The next > symbol being drawn was at around 0x05C0. This was causing a display > glitch. So, I started backing off the new x position until the glitch went > away. Reduced the deflection all the way to 0x0500-- glitch was still > present, although it was much smaller. Then I switched to 0x04FF. The > glitch COMPLETELY disappears. (This is much stranger when you see it-- > normally a change of 1 unit only made the glitch move a *tiny* amount.) > The only thing I can think of is that the way the DAC Counters are loaded > the high byte loads first, which causes the DACs to start deflecting > immediately. So a load sequence would be like: > > load high nibble with 0x05 (DAC starts off for what is essentially 0x0500) > load low byte with 0x00 (DAC still goes for 0x0500) > > vs. > > load high nibble with 0x04 (DAC starts heading for what is essentially 0x0400) > load low byte with 0xff (DAC is now going for 0x04FF, but it's already had > a jump start towards 0x0400 already, so the effect of the full deflection > isn't felt.) > > Any guesses guys? So what do you think the possibility is of hacking the G-80 hardware to give the WG a little more time. I will have to start looking at my Star Trek Schems and see what it looks like in there. You though about just adding a 'wait gate' on the main vector clock right? -- Jess Askey Atari Game Page:http://magenta.com/havoc ESLB\The Audio Analyst 509 S 2nd St Unit B Wanted: Atari I,Robot PCB Laramie, WY 82070 Data East Speed Buggy PCB (307)721-9001 Atari Quantum PCB From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 8 09:55:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 09:54:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 09:56:42 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Space Fury/G-80 info... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >So what do you think the possibility is of hacking the G-80 hardware to >give the WG a little more time. I will have to start looking at my Star >Trek Schems and see what it looks like in there. You though about just >adding a 'wait gate' on the main vector clock right? Yep, I think that's what I'm going to end up trying. The fact that it looks like the the load sequence timing to the counters makes enough difference to be visible makes me think that it might only take a few clocks to let the WG catchup... I'll try to isolate the VG clock this weekend and see what happens. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 8 10:00:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 10:00:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: Space Fury/G-80 info... Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 09:55:10 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >---------- >From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:clay@supra.com] >Sent: Thursday, May 08, 1997 11:56 AM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Space Fury/G-80 info... > >Just a little update from G-80 programming land... > >1) Apparently the WG monitor is OK with >the deflection speed as long as (first G-80 programming rule-of-thumb:) YOU >DON'T TRY TO RELOCATE THE BEAM MORE THAN 0x0200 "units" at a time. (That's >about half the screen, which kinda makes sense as the WG color monitor >spends most of it's life moving from the center of the screen to the object >to be drawn and not from one screen corner to the other...) > >2) WEIRD drawing characteristic. > This is a strange one. I was testing the Wells Gardner monitor with the >G-80 boardset and an adapter trying to figure out the "range" of a move >that will cause a vector distortion when I noticed the following little >gotcha... I had a symbol at about 0x02EF on the horizontal axis. The next >symbol being drawn was at around 0x05C0. This was causing a display >glitch. So, I started backing off the new x position until the glitch went >away. Reduced the deflection all the way to 0x0500-- glitch was still >present, although it was much smaller. Then I switched to 0x04FF. The >glitch COMPLETELY disappears. (This is much stranger when you see it-- >normally a change of 1 unit only made the glitch move a *tiny* amount.) >The only thing I can think of is that the way the DAC Counters are loaded >the high byte loads first, which causes the DACs to start deflecting >immediately. So a load sequence would be like: > >load high nibble with 0x05 (DAC starts off for what is essentially 0x0500) >load low byte with 0x00 (DAC still goes for 0x0500) > >vs. > >load high nibble with 0x04 (DAC starts heading for what is essentially >0x0400) >load low byte with 0xff (DAC is now going for 0x04FF, but it's already had >a jump start towards 0x0400 already, so the effect of the full deflection >isn't felt.) > >Any guesses guys? You could prove your point by having the first object at 0x210 instead of 0x2EF and rerunning your test of having the next object at 0x4FF or 0x500. This would show that the above rule of thumb isn't seperation of objects by more than 0x0200, but instead separation of object's high order byte by 0x02!!! Assuming your hypothesis about the high order byte is true, when the beam is recentered on the screen, it'd better be at 0x??50 and not on a boundary like 0x??00! If recentering occurred on 0x??00 then one half of the screen would be more likely to have a glitch in it. Of course, I may be mixing Atari and Sega architecture issues, since I think someone said that only Atari "centers" the beam between objects....hopefully I'm not mistaken and inadvertantly muddying the waters. (Of course, since some of the topics on this email list have been about swapping Atari color XYs and Sega XYs, accidentally mixing Atari and Sega architectural issues might be useful.) > >That's all for now. > >-Clay > >Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager >_______________________________________________________________________ >/\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com >\/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ > > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 8 10:49:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 10:49:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 10:51:08 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: Space Fury/G-80 info... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >You could prove your point by having the first object at 0x210 instead >of 0x2EF and rerunning your test of having the next object at 0x4FF or >0x500. This would show that the above rule of thumb isn't seperation of >objects by more than 0x0200, but instead separation of object's high >order byte by 0x02!!! Hmmm. That's worth looking at. I'll play around with it. >Assuming your hypothesis about the high order byte is true, when the >beam is recentered on the screen, it'd better be at 0x??50 and not on a >boundary like 0x??00! If recentering occurred on 0x??00 then one half >of the screen would be more likely to have a glitch in it. Of course, I >may be mixing Atari and Sega architecture issues, since I think someone >said that only Atari "centers" the beam between objects....hopefully I'm >not mistaken and inadvertantly muddying the waters. The "center" of the G-80 display is 0x0400, 0x0400. I don't think that makes too much of a difference conceptually though since vector objects can have positive and negative deflections in equal amounts. The point that drawing starts at is just a position that is being converted to an output voltage in the monitor so that 0x400,0x400 should be essentially 0V,0V (no deflection). (just kinda thinking while typing here) The Sega Vector system can move the electron beam to an absolute position on the screen, then it draws a series of relative moves that are essentially polar coordinates. (An angle and a length to travel in.) For the Atari Analog Vector generator the only time you *really* know where the beam is at is right after the integration caps were discharged which brings the deflection voltage to 0V,0V. So, since the analog integrators tended to have some drift, and since it makes the code easier, Atari did a lot of "zero integrators" move to new location, draw new object there, lather, rinse, repeat. So an Atari-ish way of putting objects in four corners would be like: Center beam move to upper left corner, draw object center beam move to upper right corner, draw object center beam move to lower right corner, draw object center beam move to lower left corner, draw object (So the beam generally never moves more than half the screen at a time) Sega seems to do more of a: move to upper left corner, draw object move to upper right corner, draw object move to lower right corner, draw object move to lower left cornet, draw object This make for beam moves that span the entire screen instead of a maximum of half the screen. Since Atari generally wouldn't have encountered this behaviour given their hardware, they probably didn't notice the "problem" in the monitor. If they did, the answer is simple-- don't do that. Center the beam and do your next move. ;-) So, I think that it's probably the amount of relative deflection that's getting us with the vector glitches. Although since it looks like the DAC counter values get loaded in two passes (high nibble, low byte?) there can be some amount of time in between when the low and high values of the deflection words are latched when the DAC can be causing deflection before the full value is loaded. (?) This would make certain situations (mainly a transistion from 0x0NFF to 0x0(N+1)00) more prone to distortion, but only when the total deflection difference is somewhere near the (imperically measured) 0x0200 units. I suppose I could look up the maximum vector slew rate from the WG manual and calculate what an instantaneous load of maximum deflection would do on the DACs... (This also tends to explain why the "stray vectors" go away when you reduce the size of the picture to roughly half the normal picture size... :-) Maybe this was all redundant. I'm just kinda making this up as I go along and maybe it'll jog an idea from someone else. ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 8 13:43:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 8 May 1997 13:43:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 13:45:09 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: GI chip Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >At 11:07 PM 5/7/97 GMT, you wrote: >So never the one to throw anything away, (me or my friend), we still had the >data book. Pretty worthless from a software point of view. Clay might be >interested since all it contained was two pages of interfacing information. >Pinouts, clock rates and duty cycles etc. It had one paragraph, and a >picture of how it works. It is a type of LPC (does TI have a patent on the >term LPC, since they're the only ones I've seen use that phrase). It >contains a 12 coefficient filter that models the vocal track, you send it >data in 16 (or maybe it was 15?) bit chunks, two writes per chunk, and these >"data chunks" set up the filters, pitches or not voiced, noise, etc. commands. Sure sounds like an LPC type arrangement. Sounds like the same databook/sheet I have. No programming info, just some specs. (Oddly enough, the best programming info on the SP-256 was in a (1986?) Radio Shack technical cross reference... All sorts of stuff... >You would have to have documentation of some kind to use these, and the >algorithms for compressing voice into the 12 coefficients, are very >involved. Still it might be fun playing with one, but then again isn't the >Sega speech card just a fancier form of their development card? Just a >different processor, and a bit more ROM space. Well, if nothing else the 12 coefficient thing helps a little since we know it's not the same as a TI LPC-10 coding. Maybe it's an LPC-12 varient. The only thing that kinda makes me wonder is that Larry Brantingham (the guy that designed the Speak-n-Spell chips and the whole 5100-5220-to present TI LPC family)) was pretty certain that the SP-250 was a formant synth. Hmmm. Well, I don't know enough about what the formant coding would look like to guess so until someone comes up with the programming docs I guess we'll call it a mystery. ;-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 9 09:16:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 9 May 1997 09:16:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@10.10.0.22 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 09:17:55 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Still here... Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I'm still here, but apparently having e-mail problems. (Sorry to spam the list, but I already got a couple "did you get my mail" type messages. The answer in all similar cases is "well, uhggghh. Maybe?") -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 14 06:55:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 14 May 1997 06:54:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705141359.JAA18622@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 08:50:31 -0500 From: Mark Jenison X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@spies.com Subject: Orders Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com All, Boy, a good thing this didn't become a separate newsgroup! Goes from 60-0 in 4.8 days ;-) Anyway, in case any of you were wondering, all shipments went out this weekend (except for people who ordered entire Zektor sets, those still need to be shipped), and the price and address to send the check to should be in the box when you receive it. In most cases, a $6 S&H fee was added (I shipped through Rick Schieve). Also, I am pretty much out of speech boards due to the fact that all of the ORATOR chips have been stripped from these boards, so I no longer have any speech boards available (and therefore cannot sell any more complete Zektor, StarTrek or Space Fury sets). ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 19 12:21:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 May 1997 12:21:14 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 19 May 1997 15:04 EDT To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Gregg Woodcock" Subject: Need help with speech board pinout! Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In message "Orders", you write: OK, now that I have a known working speech and sound board, I want to make 100% certain I put the speech board connector on properly when I put these into my Star Trek game. I didn't do it properly last time and I blew one of them (the speech, I think but I'm not certain). The prblem is that the connector has 6 pins but the speech board itself only has 4. Can anybody tell me which pin goes where? I have the pinout as follows but I just need to know which of the 4 pins on the board is which (for example, what number below is the outermost pin of the 4 on the speech board; the one closest to the edge of the PCB? Is it pin 1?) Speech Board ------------ 1 - Audio in 2 - GND 3 - Volume 4 - NC 5 - NC 6 - NC -- THANX...Gregg day 214.684.7380 night UNLIST/PUBL TEXAS NOT CANADA! woodcock@nortel.com or bn202@cleveland.freenet.edu *CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)* "If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Mon May 19 12:28:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Mon, 19 May 1997 12:28:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705191933.PAA25607@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:24:17 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: "Gregg Woodcock" "Need help with speech board pinout!" (May 19, 3:04pm) References: <199705191927.PAA25086@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Need help with speech board pinout! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 19, 3:04pm, Gregg Woodcock wrote: > Subject: Need help with speech board pinout! > In message "Orders", you write: > > OK, now that I have a known working speech and sound board, I want to > make 100% certain I put the speech board connector on properly when I > put these into my Star Trek game. I didn't do it properly last time > and I blew one of them (the speech, I think but I'm not certain). The > prblem is that the connector has 6 pins but the speech board itself only > has 4. Can anybody tell me which pin goes where? I have the pinout as > follows but I just need to know which of the 4 pins on the board is > which (for example, what number below is the outermost pin of the 4 on > the speech board; the one closest to the edge of the PCB? Is it pin 1?) > > Speech Board > ------------ > 1 - Audio in > 2 - GND > 3 - Volume > 4 - NC > 5 - NC > 6 - NC Hmm, I've never seen a Speech board with only 4 pins (I've seen 6, and 5 is common, too). Are you sure you have a speech board? Should have a 6 pin header, with a 8035 or 8039 chip, with 3 EPROMS (one 2715, two 2732). Either way, with a speech board, the pinouts are as follows: Speech Board ------------ 1 - Empty 2 - Empty 3 - Empty 4 - Audio out 5 - Shield 6 - input from pin 1 of Battlestar Sound Board This is assuming you have the boards vertical in the cage, with the parts side to your right and solder side to your left, counting from the top down. Shield is pretty easy to spot. Usually the sound boards only have four pins. Are you sure you don't have a sound board? FYI, pin 2 and 3 are for audio left and right, apparently for a simulated stereo set up (does the StarTrek cockpit have simulated stereo?). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 20 14:17:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 May 1997 14:16:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 20 May 1997 16:54 EDT To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Gregg Woodcock" Subject: Re: Need help with speech board pinout! Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Hmm, I've never seen a Speech board with only 4 pins (I've seen 6, and 5 is >common, too). Are you sure you have a speech board? Should have a 6 pin >header, with a 8035 or 8039 chip, with 3 EPROMS (one 2715, two 2732). > >Either way, with a speech board, the pinouts are as follows: > >Speech Board >------------ > 1 - Empty > 2 - Empty > 3 - Empty > 4 - Audio out > 5 - Shield > 6 - input from pin 1 of Battlestar Sound Board > >This is assuming you have the boards vertical in the cage, with the parts side >to your right and solder side to your left, counting from the top down. Shield >is pretty easy to spot. > >Usually the sound boards only have four pins. Are you sure you don't have a >sound board? FYI, pin 2 and 3 are for audio left and right, apparently for a >simulated stereo set up (does the StarTrek cockpit have simulated stereo?). YOu are, of course, correct. I knew the one board was the universal sound board and assumed that the other was the speech board. I pulled it out and it is a meatball sound board. In any case, the harness connector has 6 pins but the PCB connector has only 4. Here is how I *think* the 2 boards should be connected: Meatball sound board Universal sound board / / +-------------------------------------+ | S|P S|p | | o|a o|a | | l|r harness l|r |harness | d|t | d|t | | | e|s V e|s | V | r| r| | | ---- ---Yellow ---- ---Yellow | ---- ---Black ---- ---NC | ---- ---Green ---- ---NC | ---- ---NC ---- ---Black | | ---NC | | | | ---NC | | +-------------------------------------+ -- THANX...Gregg day 214.684.7380 night UNLIST/PUBL TEXAS NOT CANADA! woodcock@nortel.com or bn202@cleveland.freenet.edu *CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)* "If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 20 14:26:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 20 May 1997 14:26:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705202132.RAA00166@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 16:22:28 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: "Gregg Woodcock" "Re: Need help with speech board pinout!" (May 20, 4:54pm) References: <199705202123.RAA29078@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Need help with speech board pinout! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 20, 4:54pm, Gregg Woodcock wrote: > Subject: Re: Need help with speech board pinout! > >Hmm, I've never seen a Speech board with only 4 pins (I've seen 6, and 5 is > >common, too). Are you sure you have a speech board? Should have a 6 pin > >header, with a 8035 or 8039 chip, with 3 EPROMS (one 2715, two 2732). > > > >Either way, with a speech board, the pinouts are as follows: > > > >Speech Board > >------------ > > 1 - Empty > > 2 - Empty > > 3 - Empty > > 4 - Audio out > > 5 - Shield > > 6 - input from pin 1 of Battlestar Sound Board > > > >This is assuming you have the boards vertical in the cage, with the parts side > >to your right and solder side to your left, counting from the top down. Shield > >is pretty easy to spot. > > > >Usually the sound boards only have four pins. Are you sure you don't have a > >sound board? FYI, pin 2 and 3 are for audio left and right, apparently for a > >simulated stereo set up (does the StarTrek cockpit have simulated stereo?). > > YOu are, of course, correct. I knew the one board was the universal > sound board and assumed that the other was the speech board. I pulled > it out and it is a meatball sound board. In any case, the harness > connector has 6 pins but the PCB connector has only 4. Here is how I > *think* the 2 boards should be connected: > > Meatball sound board Universal sound board > / / > +-------------------------------------+ > | S|P S|p | > | o|a o|a | > | l|r harness l|r |harness > | d|t | d|t | | > | e|s V e|s | V > | r| r| | > | ---- ---Yellow ---- ---Yellow > | ---- ---Black ---- ---NC > | ---- ---Green ---- ---NC > | ---- ---NC ---- ---Black > | | ---NC | | > | | ---NC | | > +-------------------------------------+ BZZZZ! Wrong answer. First of all, what game are you running? If StarTrek, you need a Universal sound board and a Star Trek speech board. The speech board will have 6 or 5 pins. Second, even if that was a speech board, you have the speech board connector upside down. Thanks for the picture, though! I've been trying to explain it in words to some people. So it should be like this for Star Trek > Star Trek Speech board Universal sound board > / / > +-------------------------------------+ > | S|P S|p | > | o|a o|a | > | l|r harness l|r |harness > | d|t | d|t | | > | e|s V e|s | V > | r| r| | > | ---- ---NC ---- ---Yellow > | ---- ---NC ---- ---NC > | ---- ---NC ---- ---NC > | ---- ---Green ---- ---Black > | ---- ---Black | | > | ---- ---Yellow | | > +-------------------------------------+ However, according to my records, you ordered a Speech board populated with Zektor, so if you are trying to run Zektor, replace the above StarTrek speech board with the Speech board I sent you and replace the Universal Sound board with the Meatball sound board. Of course, unless you have the special chip, this won't do you any good (hurry up, David ;-)) ________________ ______ ___ _____ __ / __/ / / / |/ / / |/ //|/|/|_______________ Mark Jenison / __/ /_/ / / / | // | / |__ __/ _ /__ \ jenison@cig.mot.com /___/___/_/_//_/_/_/|_//__|/__| / / / // / / Sega XY FAQ author /_/|_| /_/ /____/_/|_| ________________ The One and Only 4-player vector game From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 21 10:56:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 10:56:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Fish, David" To: "vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com" Subject: Zektor for the masses Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:52:30 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >>Mark Jenison wrote: >>However, according to my records, you ordered a Speech board populated with >>Zektor, so if you are trying to run Zektor, replace the above StarTrek >>speech >>board with the Speech board I sent you and replace the Universal Sound board >>with the Meatball sound board. Of course, unless you have the special chip, >>this won't do you any good (hurry up, David ;-)) > I guess it's time for an update. Here's where I'm at. The Zektor chip has been cracked and it's scrambling algorithm has been 100% figured out. The patch list for the EPROM data has been completed; there's 50 bytes spread throughout 7 of the EPROMs which need to be changed. The new CRC values will need to be calculated and added to the patch list (up to 16 more bytes to patch). Once that's done I'll make the new binaries available to anybody who wants them. If all goes well it should be completed by Memorial Day. Dave Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! dfish@bev.etn.com (work) | By hook or by crook we will" fishd@tiac.com (/work) | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 21 11:00:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 11:00:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705211805.OAA06904@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 12:56:06 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: "Fish, David" "Zektor for the masses" (May 21, 1:52pm) References: <199705211802.OAA06602@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 21, 1:52pm, Fish, David wrote: > I guess it's time for an update. Here's where I'm at. The Zektor chip > has been cracked and it's > scrambling algorithm has been 100% figured out. The patch list for the > EPROM data has been > completed; there's 50 bytes spread throughout 7 of the EPROMs which need > to be changed. > The new CRC values will need to be calculated and added to the patch > list (up to 16 more bytes > to patch). Once that's done I'll make the new binaries available to > anybody who wants them. > If all goes well it should be completed by Memorial Day. Great! So tell me, what needs to be done to the CPU board? Special CPU EPROM for each game, or generic? What about the security chip socket, what goes in there now? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 21 11:22:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 11:22:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Fish, David" To: "vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com" Subject: RE: Zektor for the masses Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:18:15 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >>Great! So tell me, what needs to be done to the CPU board? Special CPU >>EPROM >>for each game, or generic? What about the security chip socket, what goes >>in >>there now? The CPU EPROMs for each game remain unchanged. There's nothing really special about them, each one is just the first of n EPROMs. It's contents is located at 0x0000 and extends to 0x07FF. To run the 'SC-free' version, the security chip is removed and the eight address lines to the chip (A7 - A0) are connected to the eight output lines (MA7 - MA0). You can either do this permenantly by soldering wires or temporarily by making up a DIP shunt. My first choice is the shunt. The new patched EPROMs are installed and away you go. DIP Shunt 'from-to' List for location U21 (40 pin) pin 34 to pin 40, pin 32 to pin 39, pin 33 to pin 38, pin 29 to pin 37, pin 30 to pin 36, pin 31 to pin 35, pin 27 to pin 28, >pin 20 to pin 21. Dave From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 21 12:17:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 12:17:35 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705211922.PAA13912@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:13:13 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: "Fish, David" "RE: Zektor for the masses" (May 21, 2:18pm) References: <199705211830.OAA09051@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 21, 2:18pm, Fish, David wrote: > Subject: RE: Zektor for the masses > > DIP Shunt 'from-to' List for location U21 (40 pin) > pin 34 to pin 40, > pin 32 to pin 39, > pin 33 to pin 38, > pin 29 to pin 37, > pin 30 to pin 36, > pin 31 to pin 35, > pin 27 to pin 28, > pin 20 to pin 21. Cool! Clay, have a production run of these made ;-) I'd like to do this hack to one of my spare CPU boards and test this out. I have made it all the way through Zektor now, so I could test out Zektor pretty thoroughly. Space Fury is a different story :-(. Anyway, I wanna test it, too. Have you been playing the broken version of Zektor? What do you think of it? Anyway, you can send the hacked data to me via tar and uuencode, or just send it on a disk to Rick when you return his stuff. -- Mark "who doesn't know what David's talking about" Jenison From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 21 12:28:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 12:28:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Fish, David" To: "vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com" Subject: RE: Zektor for the masses Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 15:24:36 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >>I'd like to do this hack to one of my spare CPU boards and test this out. I >>have made it all the way through Zektor now, so I could test out Zektor >>pretty >>thoroughly. Space Fury is a different story :-(. Anyway, I wanna test it, >>too. Have you been playing the broken version of Zektor? What do you think >>of >>it? I haven't had a chance to do more than watch the attraction mode. My Tac/Scan CP showed up last night so I can play it now :-) >>Anyway, you can send the hacked data to me via tar and uuencode, or just >>send >>it on a disk to Rick when you return his stuff. No problem. It will be put up on wiretap (or whatever it's called now) as soon as it's done. Dave > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 21 12:37:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 12:37:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 12:37:40 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com "Cool! Clay, have a production run of these made ;-) ..actually, if Clay makes a daughter card for the CPU, you could extend it over the SC and take care of it From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 21 12:48:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 12:47:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705211942.OAA18044@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Wed, 21 May 97 14:43:19 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses References: Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You wrote: > "Cool! Clay, have a production run of these made ;-) > > ..actually, if Clay makes a daughter card for the CPU, you could extend it > over the SC and take care of it Cool! Clay, have a production run of these made ;-) ;-) seriously, kudos to Dave Fish for his hacking skills and dedication. A lot more people are going to enjoy these games as a result of his efforts (and even more when the daughter card is made ;-) Someday, it would be nice to have a description of the process used to crack these chips (could be high level...I'm just curious about the magic) Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 21 13:20:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 13:20:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 21 May 1997 14:21 EDT To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Gregg Woodcock" Subject: Re: Need help with speech board pinout! Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In message "Re: Need help with speech board pinout!", you write: >> Star Trek Speech board Universal sound board >> / / >> +-------------------------------------+ >> | S|P S|p | >> | o|a o|a | >> | l|r harness l|r |harness >> | d|t | d|t | | >> | e|s V e|s | V >> | r| r| | >> | ---- ---NC ---- ---Yellow >> | ---- ---NC ---- ---NC >> | ---- ---NC ---- ---NC >> | ---- ---Green ---- ---Black >> | ---- ---Black | | >> | ---- ---Yellow | | >> +-------------------------------------+ > >However, according to my records, you ordered a Speech board populated with >Zektor, so if you are trying to run Zektor, replace the above StarTrek speech >board with the Speech board I sent you and replace the Universal Sound board >with the Meatball sound board. Of course, unless you have the special chip, >this won't do you any good (hurry up, David ;-)) OK, perhaps my question should be: which sets of baords comprise which games and in what order should the appear in the cage? Evidently I have gotten 2 sets of boards (1 for Space Fury and 1 for Star Trek) confused and mixed together. -- THANX...Gregg day 214.684.7380 night UNLIST/PUBL TEXAS NOT CANADA! woodcock@nortel.com or bn202@cleveland.freenet.edu *CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)* "If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 21 14:02:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 14:02:08 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@pop.van.diamondmm.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:03:53 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Cool! Clay, have a production run of these made ;-) Hey, don't laugh... The thought had occurred to me. :-) I think I'll probably do just that by tacking the "adapter" onto the end of the multigame PCB. I'll just cut it off the main PCB prior to shipping and it'll be nice and easy to just plug in... Only costs a little bit since the cost is shared with the multigame boards (basically I just have to pay for the material and a little more time.) (Although non-vector related, since I was in a multi-game kinda mood last night I finally got back on my MCR system multi-game work. Figured out how to write to the screen and control the sprites, so maybe I'll make a nice menu-driven multigame for that platform too once the G-80 one is done. :-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 21 14:06:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 14:06:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@pop.van.diamondmm.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:08:43 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >"Cool! Clay, have a production run of these made ;-) > >..actually, if Clay makes a daughter card for the CPU, you could extend it over >the SC and take care of it Hmmm. That might work nicely too. As long as it isn't too far away (so as to make for a lot of "dead space" on the PCB that would cost $$$) it sounds like a good idea. I did a similar thing on the new SW->ESB boards, so we'll see how that turns out. (It plugs into an EPROM socket *and* the NOVRAM socket, so hopefully they line up correctly when I get the boards in... :-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 21 15:10:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 15:10:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 17:57:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Ed Henciak X-Sender: ethst3@unixs1.cis.pitt.edu To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I am slightly curious about this for the Sega multigame hack : Tac Scan is a vertical monitor based game. How hard would it be to pull off making it horizontal for the multigame system...kinda like Sinistar on WAC? I really havent put much thought into it, but would it really take much to kinda smash it to totally fill a horizontal screen? Thanks. Ed From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 21 15:23:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 15:23:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 21 May 97 15:23 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970521151839.129f293e@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 05:57 PM 5/21/97 -0400, you wrote: >I am slightly curious about this for the Sega multigame hack : > > Tac Scan is a vertical monitor based game. How hard would it be to >pull off making it horizontal for the multigame system...kinda like >Sinistar on WAC? I really havent put much thought into it, but would it >really take much to kinda smash it to totally fill a horizontal screen? >Thanks. Hey Clay, there's an idea. Weren't you planning on some analog circuitry to convert from Sega to WG anyways? How hard would it be to add some flip circuitry (a la Atari VG -- or maybe Sega has already done this?), and maybe change the levels at the flip of a bit? You'd also have to swap X and Y. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 21 15:25:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 15:25:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705212220.RAA24264@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Wed, 21 May 97 17:21:05 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses References: Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You wrote: > Tac Scan is a vertical monitor based game. How hard would it be to > pull off making it horizontal for the multigame system...kinda like > Sinistar on WAC? I really havent put much thought into it, but would it > really take much to kinda smash it to totally fill a horizontal screen? > Thanks. Well, one place it could be done is on the Sega->WG interface board. If a particular bit is set, X and Y inputs are swapped (and inverted if appropriate...I've forgotten the orientation of Sega stuff). Heck, use a PIC and make everyone happy ;-) I imagine it would be non-trivial to hack the Tac/Scan code to accomplish the same thing. Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 21 15:33:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 15:33:38 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 21 May 97 15:33 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970521152906.368fcd5a@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Space Fury Cocktail ROMs Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I had a chance to look at a Space Fury cocktail this weekend. It used the same ROMs as a stand up Space Fury (though I didn't take each one out to do a binary compare, they were marked the same as the standup version). Of course it wasn't working, so I didn't get to see how and when it flipped from the player one side to the player two side. I'm guessing there's some jumper or input pulled high/low, that indicates to the ROMs that they're in a Cocktail cabinet. Anyone know otherwise? It does use a sound card marked "Space Fury", and kind of a cool "compact" version of the G-08 monitor. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 21 16:00:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 16:00:52 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@pop.van.diamondmm.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 16:02:44 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >At 05:57 PM 5/21/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hey Clay, there's an idea. Weren't you planning on some analog circuitry to >convert from Sega to WG anyways? How hard would it be to add some flip >circuitry (a la Atari VG -- or maybe Sega has already done this?), and maybe >change the levels at the flip of a bit? You'd also have to swap X and Y. I had thought about something similar a little bit-- since I already have the opamps for converting the Sega outputs to the WG monitor, I was thinking it'd be neat to add a programmable gain stage in the opamps. (So you could have H and V size control from the menu system-- I thought it'd be cool to be able to spin the knob on the panel and adjust the monitor settings on screen. ;-) I suppose it's no big deal to add a "monitor orientation" output bit... A 4052 mux should be able to handle the pre-amplified signals from the Sega boards. Hmmmm. That might be kinda neat, plus it could work both ways-- Tac Scan owners could play the other games on a smaller screen size without having to turn the monitor... (I was thinking that being able to adjust centering and size without having to get at the PCB or monitor would be pretty nice, anything else you think would be handy?) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 21 16:05:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 16:05:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:00:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199705212300.TAA24826@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: fishd Subject: Re: Space Fury Cocktail ROMs Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 03:33 PM 5/21/97 PDT, you wrote: >I had a chance to look at a Space Fury cocktail this weekend. > >It used the same ROMs as a stand up Space Fury (though I didn't take each >one out to do a binary compare, they were marked the same as the standup >version). > >Of course it wasn't working, so I didn't get to see how and when it flipped >from the player one side to the player two side. > >I'm guessing there's some jumper or input pulled high/low, that indicates to >the ROMs that they're in a Cocktail cabinet. Anyone know otherwise? > >It does use a sound card marked "Space Fury", and kind of a cool "compact" >version of the G-08 monitor. > >-Zonn > It's one of the DIP switches, SW1 position 8. UPRIGHT if OPEN COCKTAIL if CLOSED. David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! fishd@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 21 17:35:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 21 May 1997 17:35:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <3383B027.1E91@mail.idt.net> Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 19:32:07 -0700 From: mayday19 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Space Fury Cocktail ROMs References: <2.2.16.19970521152906.368fcd5a@pop3.concentric.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Zonn wrote: > > I had a chance to look at a Space Fury cocktail this weekend. > > It used the same ROMs as a stand up Space Fury (though I didn't take each > one out to do a binary compare, they were marked the same as the standup > version). > > Of course it wasn't working, so I didn't get to see how and when it flipped > from the player one side to the player two side. When it is the 2nd player's turn, it flips the screen and it just says "player 2" in the middle of the screen, then you play it. same thing when going back to player 1. > I'm guessing there's some jumper or input pulled high/low, that indicates to > the ROMs that they're in a Cocktail cabinet. Anyone know otherwise? I dont know, but the monitor is mounted upside down in the cab, like a Space Duel CT. why do they do this? > It does use a sound card marked "Space Fury", and kind of a cool "compact" > version of the G-08 monitor. it is cool, but harder to work on! at least they game you long cables so it is easy to work on the monitor while pulled out of the cabinet. I have had my Space Fury CTs since saturday, and on the working one, the monitor went out already, and I had it on about 25 minutes total. the other one has everything *but* the monitor, I guess I am gonna have to modify a regular G08 to fit in it.... I am thinking of turning the 2nd Space fury into an Eliminator CT. are the control panels different? (I mean art-wise, they have the same button configuration) if they are the same, I only need the instruction cards to make it complete, and they are just a color-copy away if there is somebody who has a CT and is willing to copy them... Jeff From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 22 10:08:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 May 1997 10:08:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: Zektor for the masses Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:04:05 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >---------- >From: Ray Ghanbari[SMTP:ray@mayo.edu] >Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 1997 2:43 PM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses > >You wrote: >> "Cool! Clay, have a production run of these made ;-) >> >> ..actually, if Clay makes a daughter card for the CPU, you could extend it >> over the SC and take care of it > >Cool! Clay, have a production run of these made ;-) ;-) > >seriously, kudos to Dave Fish for his hacking skills and dedication. A lot >more people are going to enjoy these games as a result of his efforts (and >even >more when the daughter card is made ;-) > >Someday, it would be nice to have a description of the process used to crack >these chips (could be high level...I'm just curious about the magic) I'm curious, too. Assuming any discussion about the sec chip doesn't take David away from the important task of finishing up those check sum changes. > >Ray > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 22 10:11:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 May 1997 10:11:00 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: Zektor for the masses Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:06:37 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >---------- >From: Clay Cowgill[SMTP:clay@supra.com] >Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 1997 7:02 PM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses > >>At 05:57 PM 5/21/97 -0400, you wrote: >>Hey Clay, there's an idea. Weren't you planning on some analog circuitry to >>convert from Sega to WG anyways? How hard would it be to add some flip >>circuitry (a la Atari VG -- or maybe Sega has already done this?), and maybe >>change the levels at the flip of a bit? You'd also have to swap X and Y. > >I had thought about something similar a little bit-- since I already have >the opamps for converting the Sega outputs to the WG monitor, I was >thinking it'd be neat to add a programmable gain stage in the opamps. (So >you could have H and V size control from the menu system-- I thought it'd >be cool to be able to spin the knob on the panel and adjust the monitor >settings on screen. ;-) I'd be impressed at seeing screen size under software control! > >I suppose it's no big deal to add a "monitor orientation" output bit... A >4052 mux should be able to handle the pre-amplified signals from the Sega >boards. Hmmmm. That might be kinda neat, plus it could work both ways-- >Tac Scan owners could play the other games on a smaller screen size without >having to turn the monitor... > >(I was thinking that being able to adjust centering and size without having >to get at the PCB or monitor would be pretty nice, anything else you think >would be handy?) > >-Clay > >Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager >_______________________________________________________________________ >/\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com >\/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ > > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 22 10:26:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 May 1997 10:26:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Fish, David" To: "vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com" Subject: RE: Zektor for the masses Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:22:43 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Steve O. wrote: >>>Someday, it would be nice to have a description of the process used to >>>crack >>>these chips (could be high level...I'm just curious about the magic) > >>I'm curious, too. Assuming any discussion about the sec chip doesn't >>take David away from the important task of finishing up those check sum >>changes. A document is in the works which will describe the four SC's. I'm not going to release it until I've released the five games that I'm working on. The releases will go in this order: #1 Zektor, #2 Space Fury, #3 Eliminator, #4 TAC/SCAN, and finally, Star Trek. I haven't made up my mind if I'll do the 4-player version of Eliminator. I suppose if there's enough demand I can tack it on the end. Dave BTW Steve, what's your e-mail address, I seem to have lost it. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 22 11:33:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 May 1997 11:33:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 22 May 97 11:34 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970522112914.0ccf2052@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: RE: Zektor for the masses Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 01:22 PM 5/22/97 -0400, you wrote: >Steve O. wrote: >>>>Someday, it would be nice to have a description of the process used to >>>>crack >>>>these chips (could be high level...I'm just curious about the magic) >> >>>I'm curious, too. Assuming any discussion about the sec chip doesn't >>>take David away from the important task of finishing up those check sum >>>changes. > >A document is in the works which will describe the four SC's. >I'm not going to release it until I've released the five games >that I'm working on. The releases will go in this order: >#1 Zektor, #2 Space Fury, #3 Eliminator, #4 TAC/SCAN, >and finally, Star Trek. I haven't made up my mind if I'll do >the 4-player version of Eliminator. I suppose if there's enough >demand I can tack it on the end. Are you kidding? 4-player Eliminator was the most fun game Sega every made! There's nothing like blasting away at three of your friends! The strategy is different than the two player version. You can have two players dueling it out, and in the meantime you can kick back, unnoticed, and really rack up the points. Or three of you can just waste that obnoxious friend who's been drinking way too much! (Who invited him anyways?) Too fun! So tick up one for me on the "demand" counter! (Of course if you're burnt out at that point you could just release the Security Chip info and let someone else do the grunt work.) -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 22 11:50:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 May 1997 11:50:55 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705221846.NAA25600@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970522112914.0ccf2052@pop3.concentric.net> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Thu, 22 May 97 13:47:20 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses References: <2.2.16.19970522112914.0ccf2052@pop3.concentric.net> Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You wrote: > Are you kidding? 4-player Eliminator was the most fun game Sega every made! > There's nothing like blasting away at three of your friends! > > The strategy is different than the two player version. You can have two > players dueling it out, and in the meantime you can kick back, unnoticed, > and really rack up the points. I stumbled onto this strategy the first (and only) time I played Eliminator. Against the "dream team" of Rick Scheive, Mark Jenison, and Alan Schieff (sp?), I coasted to an easy vistory ;-) Amazingly fun game with 4 people. I'm in process of building a control panel in anticipation of playing it at my next gaming party (gotta get a working Sega/WG setup first, so I have an excuse for being lazy...Clay's PCBs are a *LOT* nicer than my wirewrap ;-) Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 22 12:03:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 May 1997 12:03:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: Zektor for the masses Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:58:03 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >---------- >From: Zonn[SMTP:zonn@concentric.net] >Sent: Thursday, May 22, 1997 1:34 PM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: RE: Zektor for the masses > >At 01:22 PM 5/22/97 -0400, you wrote: >>Steve O. wrote: >>>>>Someday, it would be nice to have a description of the process used to >>>>>crack >>>>>these chips (could be high level...I'm just curious about the magic) >>> >>>>I'm curious, too. Assuming any discussion about the sec chip doesn't >>>>take David away from the important task of finishing up those check sum >>>>changes. >> >>A document is in the works which will describe the four SC's. >>I'm not going to release it until I've released the five games >>that I'm working on. The releases will go in this order: >>#1 Zektor, #2 Space Fury, #3 Eliminator, #4 TAC/SCAN, >>and finally, Star Trek. I haven't made up my mind if I'll do >>the 4-player version of Eliminator. I suppose if there's enough >>demand I can tack it on the end. > >Are you kidding? 4-player Eliminator was the most fun game Sega every made! >There's nothing like blasting away at three of your friends! I agree whole heartedly! Rick S, Mark J and I (and a friend Mark would draft) had some fantastic times around Mark's 4 player Eliminator just before I left for CA! (I never did get to play with Alan S....) Rick had sooooo much fun being trashed, that he installed a "wide" control panel on his upright Tac Scan just so he could play 4 player Eliminator in his basement!! For those of you who are in CA, I'll be putting together a 4-player eliminator tournment at Gaymond/Bill/Zonn's upcoming video game party in San Diego on June 15th. Come down from the Bay Area and learn in person just how fun it is to "blast away at three of your friends!" So that this posting does have some tech discussion in it, can the folks who are more technically adept tell the rest of us if an 8 player Eliminator would ever be possible? The code is probably set up for "n-players", and we could probably remove the scoring routine code to get more space....who looks at score when playing 4 player eliminator?! > >The strategy is different than the two player version. You can have two >players dueling it out, and in the meantime you can kick back, unnoticed, >and really rack up the points. > >Or three of you can just waste that obnoxious friend who's been drinking way >too much! (Who invited him anyways?) > >Too fun! > >So tick up one for me on the "demand" counter! (Of course if you're burnt >out at that point you could just release the Security Chip info and let >someone else do the grunt work.) > >-Zonn > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 22 13:39:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 May 1997 13:38:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@pop.van.diamondmm.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:40:50 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: Zektor for the masses Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >So that this posting does have some tech discussion in it, can the folks >who are more technically adept tell the rest of us if an 8 player >Eliminator would ever be possible? The code is probably set up for >"n-players", and we could probably remove the scoring routine code to >get more space....who looks at score when playing 4 player eliminator?! *Heh*. Well, from my experience in writing games for smaller systems I'd bet that they have the player memory array's back to back and index into them. That makes it a little tricky to add more. (On slower systems you generally try to avoid "general case" coding to keep as much of the CPU to yourself as possible.) If it was "general purpose" I bet it was by a .EQU in the assembly file that built the code. I haven't tried any game code on the G-80 yet so I can't speak from experience on the horsepower that the z-80 has, but I'd be a little worried about having enough CPU time to run the game state machine for a full eight players. The inputs could be a little daunting too... Well, if nothing else, the multi-game daughtercard has support for plenty more game images if anyone manages to make any good modifications to the existing games... ;-) (Hmmmm. Now if someone wants to rewrite the code a bit and use the serial port on the multi-game to run a modem and have two-player Eliminator over the phone line...) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 22 13:48:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 May 1997 13:48:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705222043.PAA01287@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Thu, 22 May 97 15:44:34 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses References: Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You wrote: > (Hmmmm. Now if someone wants to rewrite the code a bit and use the serial > port on the multi-game to run a modem and have two-player Eliminator over > the phone line...) You'd need at least a T3 line to make this work, and maybe even an OC3 link (review the MORTAL KOMBAT 4 thread on rgvac for the reference ;-) I will say that having 4 players cooking on the screen makes for a mess already. Anymore and the playfield would resemble Gettysburg more than a video game. Now if you could get a 5th player to control the space bagel...hmmm... Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 22 14:11:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 May 1997 14:11:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@pop.van.diamondmm.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:13:18 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >You wrote: >> (Hmmmm. Now if someone wants to rewrite the code a bit and use the serial >> port on the multi-game to run a modem and have two-player Eliminator over >> the phone line...) > >You'd need at least a T3 line to make this work, and maybe even an OC3 link >(review the MORTAL KOMBAT 4 thread on rgvac for the reference ;-) Yeah, good point. We'd need that so we can send the entire contents of the memory space in the game at least 40 times a second. *grin* I'm going to go get me one of the $700/mo T3's now... Start my own phone company. ;-) >I will say that having 4 players cooking on the screen makes for a mess >already. Anymore and the playfield would resemble Gettysburg more than a >video >game. Now if you could get a 5th player to control the space bagel...hmmm... That'd be kinda interesting... ;-) So, how many missiles can each ship have on the screen at once in Eliminator? -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 22 14:14:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 May 1997 14:14:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 22 May 97 14:15 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970522141012.2d978718@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 03:44 PM 5/22/97 -0500, you wrote: >You wrote: >> (Hmmmm. Now if someone wants to rewrite the code a bit and use the serial >> port on the multi-game to run a modem and have two-player Eliminator over >> the phone line...) > >You'd need at least a T3 line to make this work, and maybe even an OC3 link >(review the MORTAL KOMBAT 4 thread on rgvac for the reference ;-) I'll bet you wouldn't, that's the beauty of vector systems, you would only need to share of few position bytes. The complexity of the play field, and the number of options a player is allowed differ vastly between Eliminator and Mortak Kombat 4! Would do you need to know? Where everyone is, where everyone's bullets are, and where the Bagel of Death is. Someone should be able to encode this in very few bytes (Hey don't look at me! I work for a living, and they don't understand this arcade thing!) But if someone's going through that kind of trouble, wouldn't it be cooler to write it for a PC vector library instead of the G-08 system? Hey, I'd buy a copy! -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 22 14:49:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 May 1997 14:49:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Ozdemir, Steve" To: "'vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com'" Subject: RE: Zektor for the masses Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:45:14 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com G'day folks, Actually, some work I saw back at Stanford might pertain to this idea of phone lines and real time game play. As Zonn points out, the vector environment is actually quite conducive to compressed information exchange. Everything, the four players, death bagel, death bagel spawn and up to five bullets, can be described as position and direction that the object is pointing (except for player bullets which are too small to have direction). Less than a dozen pieces of information to convey every 40th of a second. Across a 28.8 modem, that'd give you (28800/(40*8))=90 bytes of data to pack all dozen objects from a frame of the gameplay. As to scoring information being updated, well, as I said before who looks at score when playing Eliminator (besides we took all the scoring information out so that we could add 4 more players and serial modem functionality, right?)! By the way, from a perception perspective once delays get beyond a quarter second, then the players start complaining. Sorta like phone echo. Again, so there's a technical part of this email, would a Sega monitor be able to handle all the extra vectors for 4 extra players? Steven S Ozdemir sso@dsc.com >---------- >From: Zonn[SMTP:zonn@concentric.net] >Sent: Thursday, May 22, 1997 4:15 PM >To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses > >At 03:44 PM 5/22/97 -0500, you wrote: >>You wrote: >>> (Hmmmm. Now if someone wants to rewrite the code a bit and use the serial >>> port on the multi-game to run a modem and have two-player Eliminator over >>> the phone line...) >> >>You'd need at least a T3 line to make this work, and maybe even an OC3 link >>(review the MORTAL KOMBAT 4 thread on rgvac for the reference ;-) > >I'll bet you wouldn't, that's the beauty of vector systems, you would only >need to share of few position bytes. > >The complexity of the play field, and the number of options a player is >allowed differ vastly between Eliminator and Mortak Kombat 4! > >Would do you need to know? Where everyone is, where everyone's bullets are, >and where the Bagel of Death is. Someone should be able to encode this in >very few bytes (Hey don't look at me! I work for a living, and they don't >understand this arcade thing!) > >But if someone's going through that kind of trouble, wouldn't it be cooler >to write it for a PC vector library instead of the G-08 system? Hey, I'd >buy a copy! > >-Zonn > > From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 22 14:57:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 May 1997 14:57:02 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 14:56:59 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com zonn said: But if someone's going through that kind of trouble, wouldn't it be cooler to write it for a PC vector library instead of the G-08 system? Hey, I'd buy a copy! ..well, you could run it on a simulated G80 system on a PC :-) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 22 15:06:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 May 1997 15:06:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705222201.RAA05111@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970522141012.2d978718@pop3.concentric.net> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Thu, 22 May 97 17:02:01 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses References: <2.2.16.19970522141012.2d978718@pop3.concentric.net> Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You wrote: > But if someone's going through that kind of trouble, wouldn't it be cooler > to write it for a PC vector library instead of the G-08 system? Hey, I'd > buy a copy! Actually, one of my wish list items to Clay for his new vector system was the ability to network systems together. If the product is a smash hit, the 3rd party market can do the modem add-on ;-) Of course, might be cheaper/faster (but definitely less cool) to have a PC parallel port plug in that does the DAC work to hook up to a vector monitor. Anyway, first things first: get a multi-game Sega system working. We can worry about rev 2 later ;-) Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 22 16:08:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 22 May 1997 16:08:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@pop.van.diamondmm.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:10:22 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: RE: Zektor for the masses Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Less than a dozen pieces of information to convey >every 40th of a second. Across a 28.8 modem, that'd give you >(28800/(40*8))=90 bytes of data to pack all dozen objects from a frame >of the gameplay. Hey, we're talking about stuff I do for a job now... Weird. :-) I gave a talk at the Computer Game Developer's Conference two years ago about multi-player modem enabled gaming. We were doing a lot of development at the time on SVD (Simultaneous Voice and Data) and DSVD (Digital Simultaneous Voice and Data) and low-latency protocols for gaming. (We named it "Fast Action/Reaction Technology" for the CGDC. The acronym got a good laugh. ;-) 9600bps with no protocols makes a lot of sense for old video games. The problem with 28.8K and any of the "modern" protocols is that the V.42/V.42bis engines (error correction and compression) introduce a weird variable timing thing. 9600bps with no error correction or data compression makes for a nice predictable stream with few if any errors. Your real-world throughput is about 1000bytes/sec which makes for around 24 bytes/frame at the G-80 refresh rate of 40Hz. >By the way, from a perception perspective once delays get beyond a >quarter second, then the players start complaining. Sorta like phone >echo. Right, the human brain doesn't resolve down to time slices much less than 33ms very well, so anything faster than that is generally "better". Still though, depending on the display device, frame rates less than 30fps are still very acceptable depending on the medium-- longer persistance phosphors in games like the Vectrex and mono-monitors let you get away with slower update rates, and the "glow" from a theater's silver screen lets the shuttered 24fps movie rates look good to most everyone. >Again, so there's a technical part of this email, would a Sega monitor >be able to handle all the extra vectors for 4 extra players? I wouldn't worry much about the monitor. As long as the data will fit into the VRAM the vector generator can execute it. With a little careful programming you can avoid most "worst case" distributions of the graphics which helps prevent those big "instantaneous" jumps in beam position that cause the monitors grief with the slew rate. The thing to do for sending the data is to tailor your coding to the application at hand. Rather than resending a bunch of 2-byte player/bullet coordinates, since you're running lock-step with the frame rate anyway, just send the delta's. (So if "vmax" for a ship is +/- 4 "pixels" encode that information into 3 bits of a byte, like: Bit 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 - - ? X X ? Y Y Where: - = don't care ? = sign (+/-) X X = x position delta from last position Y Y = y position delta from last position Use the "don't care" byte to signify a particular packet type (like played dead or alive, or next byte is to be handled as a special case or whatever.) That can keep your data density really low and let you run over a slower line and with a slower DTE rate on the hose computer. (38,400 bps to keep up with a 28.8 line would probably eat all the Z-80's time just moving data!) Oh, well, it's interesting to ponder how it could work, anyway... :-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 23 14:22:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 May 1997 14:22:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 17:18:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Mowlawnman@aol.com Message-ID: <970523171802_-297077852@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Zektor for the masses Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In a message dated 97-05-22 15:22:56 EDT, you write: >So that this posting does have some tech discussion in it, can the folks >who are more technically adept tell the rest of us if an 8 player >Eliminator would ever be possible? The code is probably set up for >"n-players", and we could probably remove the scoring routine code to >get more space....who looks at score when playing 4 player eliminator?! Well heck if we are going to start dreaming why don't we get Clay to put on that port and then recode Eliminator (or anything) to run on 2, 3, 4.... Monitors/CPUs where everyone could have their own machine and go head to head. Then it would be possible to make a huge playfield where players would need scanners to hunt each other (sorta like Sinistar) and possibly allow for more than 4 players in a game. I've always dreamed of a head to head Battle Zone with 2 players linked up..... Kev lawnmowerman@olg.com http://olg.com/lawnmowerman From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 23 14:33:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 May 1997 14:33:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 17:29:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199705232129.RAA09761@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: fishd Subject: 'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hi Folks, Well I'm a little ahead of schedule which is a switch ;-) The 'SC-Free' versions of Zektor and Space Fury are both complete and 100% functional. I'll put them up on TANT as zip files. To run Zektor you'll need to program seven (7) EPROMs and remove the now obselete security chip. The shunt that I described yesterday will need to be installed on the CPU board. Instructions for implementing the shunt will be included in a text file along with the seven .bin files. The two ZIP files will be named SF_SFREE.ZIP and ZK_SFREE.ZIP. I'll try to get them uploaded by 7:00PM EST. If anybody needs to have them e-mailed to them, let me know. ENJOY! Have a good Memorial Day too. David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! fishd@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 23 14:36:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 May 1997 14:36:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: New vector monitor design. Message-ID: <19970521.064053.10390.2.gonzothegreat@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-15,17-26 From: gonzothegreat@juno.com Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 17:31:51 EDT Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Forgive me if this subject has been beaten to death here previously. Besides, we need something to do while the hackers are finishing the Zektor mods :) Whilst digging through some trashed out monitors, I noticed that the horizontal yoke deflection coils from some monitors can be removed without too much hassle. Since the vertical response seems to be the limiting factor in some experiments by Clay and company, would somebody who knows more about monitor design care to comment on the feasability of the following. Take one monitor yoke, remove horizontal windings. Take another monitor yoke of the same type, disconnect the vertical windings and attach other horizontal windings. Orient loose horizontal winding 90 degrees from other horiztontal windings. Place & align new yoke on a WG K6100 compatible tube. Attach K6100 chassis to tube. Turn on & watch for smoke :) Would this even work? Since the horizontal winding is 15.750 KHz, would there be any response outside of a small window around 15K? Any comments from the monitor wizards? Gregg? Zonn? Ferris? Anybody? Virtu-Al From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 23 14:39:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 May 1997 14:39:23 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705232144.RAA16309@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:35:05 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: fishd "'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist." (May 23, 5:29pm) References: <199705232139.RAA16020@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: 'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 23, 5:29pm, fishd wrote: > Subject: 'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist. > Hi Folks, > > Well I'm a little ahead of schedule which is a switch ;-) > The 'SC-Free' versions of Zektor and Space Fury are both > complete and 100% functional. I'll put them up on TANT as > zip files. Here also! http://www.vu.union.edu/~peekb/arcade/index.html (Actually, I think this is a mirror of TANT). > To run Zektor you'll need to program seven (7) > EPROMs In addition to, or in place of some of the original EPROMs? There are 21 EPROMs on Zektors EPROM board. > and remove the now obselete security chip. The shunt > that I described yesterday will need to be installed on the > CPU board. Instructions for implementing the shunt will > be included in a text file along with the seven .bin files. > > The two ZIP files will be named SF_SFREE.ZIP and ZK_SFREE.ZIP. > I'll try to get them uploaded by 7:00PM EST. If anybody needs > to have them e-mailed to them, let me know. Email Rick Schieve a copy; he's not on this e-mail list anymore (got too technical for him ;-)) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 23 14:41:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 May 1997 14:41:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:41:06 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com It would be easier to have some yokes custom wound... Ideally, you would want a monitor with the deflection characteristics of the G80's, but with modern deflection circuitry. It may be easier to find fried G80 monitors and redesign the deflection board.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 23 14:42:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 May 1997 14:42:36 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:42:32 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: 'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com mark said: http://www.vu.union.edu/~peekb/arcade/index.html as a mirror for tant the problem is this doesn't mirror /incoming on tant, and nothing has made it into game_archive from incoming in a LONG time. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 23 14:45:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 May 1997 14:45:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705232151.RAA16732@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:41:19 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: aek@ftpbox.mot.com (Al Kossow) "Re: 'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist." (May 23, 2:42pm) References: <199705232148.RAA16598@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: 'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 23, 2:42pm, Al Kossow wrote: > Subject: Re: 'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist. > mark said: > > http://www.vu.union.edu/~peekb/arcade/index.html > > as a mirror for tant > > the problem is this doesn't mirror /incoming on tant, and > nothing has made it into game_archive from incoming in a LONG time. So you're saying do or don't send them a copy?? I figured since I saw Zektor in their list, they must be keeping up with updates pretty well... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 23 14:47:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 May 1997 14:47:06 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:47:03 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: 'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Sorry, I spaced out. YES, send peekb the data I was thinking of the automatic mirror sites of tant (doh...) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 23 14:50:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 May 1997 14:50:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@pop.van.diamondmm.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:52:42 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: 'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com [Zektor & Space Fury] >ENJOY! Have a good Memorial Day too. Hey Cool! Good going Dave... (Dave) If you could, please e-mail me a copy. I can never get on Tant, and if I can get the images that will give me something "real" to test the multigame hardware on this weekend. Also, if any of you are curious-- I got the new ESB boards in today. I scanned one and put it on my webpage. http://www.wwwpro.com/clay/ESB.html I need to make sure those work this weekend too. Got my work cut out for me. ;-) Keep your fingers crossed... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 23 15:52:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 May 1997 15:52:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@pop.van.diamondmm.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 15:54:17 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I'll go ahead and toss this out again since I think it was only Joel and I talking about it *long* ago. I have an old B/W 12" monitor that came out of a bootleg Asteroids Cocktail. The interesting thing about it is that there are *very* few parts on the board. What the designers did, was use a pair of those STK0080 (I think that's it, it might have been the STK0050) audio amps for the deflection drive. (Think about 2"x3" hybrid package thing, they're in NTE/ECG/etc if you want to look them up.) The STK0080 are these big SIP package integrated audio amps like you'd find in a Fisher or low-end Sony consumer Receiver/Amp. Built in heat sink, etc. Put a (small) input voltage in one side, get bigger voltage and lots of current on the other side. Really easy to use. It makes a lot of sense actually-- you've got high current, reasonably fast transient response, overcurrent protection, over temp protection, etc. They run off of a + and - 30V supply. I keep meaning to trace through the board and figure out the exact schematic, but I have all these other projects... Anyway, Joel and I were thinking that this type of drive system along with a stand-alone HV supply based on some super-common/cheap HVT would be pretty cool. Neither of us wanted to/knew how to do the yoke design though... -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 23 16:14:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 May 1997 16:14:20 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 23 May 97 16:14 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970523160945.39471576@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 05:31 PM 5/23/97 EDT, you wrote: >Forgive me if this subject has been beaten to death here previously. > >Besides, we need something to do while the hackers are finishing >the Zektor mods :) > >Whilst digging through some trashed out monitors, I noticed that >the horizontal yoke deflection coils from some monitors can be >removed without too much hassle. > >Since the vertical response seems to be the limiting factor in some >experiments by Clay and company, would somebody who knows more >about monitor design care to comment on the feasability of the >following. > >Take one monitor yoke, remove horizontal windings. Take another monitor >yoke of the same type, disconnect the vertical windings and attach other >horizontal windings. Orient loose horizontal winding 90 degrees from >other >horiztontal windings. Place & align new yoke on a WG K6100 compatible >tube. Attach K6100 chassis to tube. Turn on & watch for smoke :) > >Would this even work? Since the horizontal winding is 15.750 KHz, would >there be any response outside of a small window around 15K? > >Any comments from the monitor wizards? Gregg? Zonn? Ferris? Anybody? One of my "too do" projects is a 27"+ X/Y monitor (depends on how much money I could spare, I'd really like a 32"!). The way to do this is to convert one of those new 32 inch TVs. Of all the problems, the Yoke seems to be the hardest. By running the TV with a blank screen (or blue, or whatever) I can allow the TV to generate it's own High Voltage, Focus Voltage, and I can tap into it's anode voltages to drive the RGB guns. That leaves the yoke. The easiest thing to do would be use an WG / Sega or Amplifone yoke, that's if they will even fit over the end of the tube. The problem with this is the yoke was not designed for the tube, and chances are converging the tube will be impossible. So the next thing would be to use the raster Yoke supplied with the tube. The advantages are that if you don't move it around, it'll probably be pretty close to converged. The disadvantages are of course the high impedances. The TRUE monitor guru is Rodger Boots (I don't think he's on this mailing list). Rodger works on military monitors for a living, and has even worked on dual raster / X-Y monitors. They're used in aircraft radar, they scan one frame of raster for background, then switch to an X/Y mode to display the radar images. Flipping back and forth between the two modes allows for killer overlays on an X/Y display -- anybody have one of *these* laying around in their garage? So after sending a few emails off to Rodger I found out that of the four coils used in any yoke (2 vertical, 2 horizontal), X/Y monitors have these coils connected in parallel, for lower impedances, while rasters have the horizontal coils in parallel and the vertical in series (for higher impedances). So far, every raster yoke I've looked would allow me access to the windings where I could re-connect the vertical windings in parallel, instead of series. The tuning of the yoke for 15khz is done with an external capacitor, which would be removed. (The clicking you hear in many multi-scan monitors as you change video modes, are relays switching in and out different capacitors to tune the monitor's yoke for different scan rates.) Of course this still doesn't create the ideal X/Y yoke, the impedances are still much higher than the standard X/Y yoke. So step #2, there's nothing in physics that says high impedance yokes can't be driven just as fast as the low impedance yokes, you just need higher driving voltages. I'm guessing for a rewired raster yoke, something on the order of +/- 100 volts. (Using standard raster isolation transformers and some surplus capacitors I should be able to build the +/- 100v power supply) Well it's hard to find high voltage / high current bipolar transistor, and as a side note Rodger mentioned high power Mos-FETs which have much higher break down voltages. For driving the yokes I planned on using an old amplifone X/Y board since the flybacks are fried in all the Amplifone boards I have, they're available. And they have a nice, everything on one board but the high voltage, layout. So now I need to beef up the outputs to handle +/- 100v (at least) levels. Looking into Mos-FETs the first thing you find is that they are voltage amplifiers, not current amplifiers (like standard bi-polar transistors). This is actually an advantage since I can now drive the Amplifone circuitry with the standard +/- 25v levels, use a properly calculated resistor to convert the currents from the pre-drivers to the proper voltages needed to drive the Mos-FETs, and use the Mos-FETs to do the voltage amplification to +/- 100 volts. The other thing nice about Mos-FETs is that they *like* being paralleled as drivers. When they get hotter, they conduct *less* current, so are self regulating (they don't need those emitter resistors -- well they don't actually have emitters). After all that's done, there will probably be problems with pincushioning and such, since the newer tubes have flatter screens, and shorter yoke distances. (this is of course assuming I can even get the tube to converge!) I'm sure to compensate for these anomalies, some clever circuitry has been added to the TV, to square up the edges. The Cinematronics color card has some nice, completely adjustable, pincushion correction, and also circuits to adjust linearity without those impossible to find VDR's. I'll use something like these circuits to play with squaring up the edges. So in summary: Find a big TV, with schematic. Either work with available X/Y yokes (by far the *easiest* if it works!) else, rewire raster yoke and redesign the X/Y power amplifiers. Verify anode voltage levels are acceptable to Amplifone (or patch up this circuit) Add whatever pincushion and linearity correction circuitry I might need. Hook up to Tempest or Star Wars for the totally killer big screen effect! (Or how about a 32" 4 player eliminator screen! Cool! Geeze maybe I need +/- 150 volts to run Sega stuff! *gulp*) So as long as I don't do something stupid like brush up against the 250 volts, plus, power supply, while I'm building this thing, it looks like a peice of cake! (Children please don't try this at home!) ------------------- Well that answer had nothing to do with your original question! So to answer your question about whether using to horizontal raster coils wired at a 90 degree angles to each other, as an X/Y yoke: I don't know. Because of the higher impedances of the yoke I would think the monitor would be too slow, you'd have to boost the power supply voltages, assuming you could get the monitor to converge. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 23 16:21:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 May 1997 16:21:48 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970523161908.006a622c@mail.teleport.com> X-Sender: luna@mail.teleport.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:19:10 -0700 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Chris.Hanks" Subject: Re: ESB boards Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Hi Clay! I just read about your new ESB boards. I think I'll need at least two of them. If you don't mind, I'd like to pay for you to install install it on one of my ESB boards AT YOUR CONVENIENCE. (I believe you said it was backwards compatible?) Would that be okay with you? I'll be in your neighborhood for a few minutes tomorrow, maybe I could drop one of then? LMK, and thanks! >Also, if any of you are curious-- I got the new ESB boards in today. I >scanned one and put it on my webpage. http://www.wwwpro.com/clay/ESB.html > >I need to make sure those work this weekend too. Got my work cut out for >me. ;-) Keep your fingers crossed... > >-Clay > >Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager >_______________________________________________________________________ >/\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com >\/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ > > > Chris. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 23 16:38:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 May 1997 16:38:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 23 May 97 16:39 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970523163408.3947f300@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 03:54 PM 5/23/97 -0800, you wrote: >I'll go ahead and toss this out again since I think it was only Joel and I >talking about it *long* ago. > >I have an old B/W 12" monitor that came out of a bootleg Asteroids >Cocktail. The interesting thing about it is that there are *very* few >parts on the board. What the designers did, was use a pair of those >STK0080 (I think that's it, it might have been the STK0050) audio amps for >the deflection drive. (Think about 2"x3" hybrid package thing, they're in >NTE/ECG/etc if you want to look them up.) > >The STK0080 are these big SIP package integrated audio amps like you'd find >in a Fisher or low-end Sony consumer Receiver/Amp. Built in heat sink, >etc. Put a (small) input voltage in one side, get bigger voltage and lots >of current on the other side. Really easy to use. It makes a lot of sense >actually-- you've got high current, reasonably fast transient response, >overcurrent protection, over temp protection, etc. > >They run off of a + and - 30V supply. I keep meaning to trace through the >board and figure out the exact schematic, but I have all these other >projects... > >Anyway, Joel and I were thinking that this type of drive system along with >a stand-alone HV supply based on some super-common/cheap HVT would be >pretty cool. Neither of us wanted to/knew how to do the yoke design >though... Didn't the Vectrex also use Audio Amp modules to drive the yoke? The only requirement on the module (beside current/voltage ratings), would be that's it's feedback input be available on a external pin so that you can run it in a current feedback mode instead of the standard voltage feedback mode used to drive loud speakers. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 23 16:44:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 23 May 1997 16:44:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Fri, 23 May 97 16:44 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970523163938.190f0950@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: 'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 05:29 PM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Folks, > > Well I'm a little ahead of schedule which is a switch ;-) >The 'SC-Free' versions of Zektor and Space Fury are both >complete and 100% functional. I'll put them up on TANT as >zip files. To run Zektor you'll need to program seven (7) >EPROMs and remove the now obselete security chip. The shunt >that I described yesterday will need to be installed on the >CPU board. Instructions for implementing the shunt will >be included in a text file along with the seven .bin files. > > The two ZIP files will be named SF_SFREE.ZIP and ZK_SFREE.ZIP. >I'll try to get them uploaded by 7:00PM EST. If anybody needs >to have them e-mailed to them, let me know. > >ENJOY! Have a good Memorial Day too. Is this just too cool or what?! I imagine the price of the Zektor/Monster bash copy protection chip just took a major plunge! (Do you think some future operator trying to auction off another Zektor board set is going to wonder why know one wants to bid more than $100 for the set?) Thanks Dave! -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 27 06:58:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 06:57:39 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705271403.KAA07316@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 08:53:08 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Zonn "Re: 'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist." (May 23, 4:44pm) References: <199705232350.TAA22881@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: 'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 23, 4:44pm, Zonn wrote: > Subject: Re: 'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist. > At 05:29 PM 5/23/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi Folks, > > > > Well I'm a little ahead of schedule which is a switch ;-) > >The 'SC-Free' versions of Zektor and Space Fury are both > >complete and 100% functional. I'll put them up on TANT as > >zip files. To run Zektor you'll need to program seven (7) > >EPROMs and remove the now obselete security chip. The shunt > >that I described yesterday will need to be installed on the > >CPU board. Instructions for implementing the shunt will > >be included in a text file along with the seven .bin files. > > > > The two ZIP files will be named SF_SFREE.ZIP and ZK_SFREE.ZIP. > >I'll try to get them uploaded by 7:00PM EST. If anybody needs > >to have them e-mailed to them, let me know. > > > >ENJOY! Have a good Memorial Day too. > > Is this just too cool or what?! > > I imagine the price of the Zektor/Monster bash copy protection chip just > took a major plunge! That's one way to look at it. Any other way to look at it is instead of having 50 StarTrek/Space Fury CPU, 20 Tac/Scan/4-player Eliminator CPUs, 20 2-player Eliminator CPUs, and no Zektor CPUs, I now have 90 CPUs capable of playing ANY Sega XY game! :-) Also, believe it or not, some collectors DO appreciate the fact that they have the ORIGINAL Security Chip and original Zektor software. > (Do you think some future operator trying to auction > off another Zektor board set is going to wonder why know one wants to bid > more than $100 for the set?) Well, let's not drop the value of a Zektor to nothing just yet...the truth is I`m nearly out of the Eliminator sound boards, so even when this SC-FREE version comes out, I'll only be able to offer only like 5 for so. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 27 07:02:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 07:02:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705271407.KAA07756@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 08:57:44 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Zonn "Re: New vector monitor design." (May 23, 4:39pm) References: <199705232344.TAA22631@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 23, 4:39pm, Zonn wrote: > Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. > At 03:54 PM 5/23/97 -0800, you wrote: > >I'll go ahead and toss this out again since I think it was only Joel and I > >talking about it *long* ago. > > > >I have an old B/W 12" monitor that came out of a bootleg Asteroids > >Cocktail. The interesting thing about it is that there are *very* few > >parts on the board. What the designers did, was use a pair of those > >STK0080 (I think that's it, it might have been the STK0050) audio amps for > >the deflection drive. (Think about 2"x3" hybrid package thing, they're in > >NTE/ECG/etc if you want to look them up.) > > > >The STK0080 are these big SIP package integrated audio amps like you'd find > >in a Fisher or low-end Sony consumer Receiver/Amp. Built in heat sink, > >etc. Put a (small) input voltage in one side, get bigger voltage and lots > >of current on the other side. Really easy to use. It makes a lot of sense > >actually-- you've got high current, reasonably fast transient response, > >overcurrent protection, over temp protection, etc. > > > >They run off of a + and - 30V supply. I keep meaning to trace through the > >board and figure out the exact schematic, but I have all these other > >projects... > > > >Anyway, Joel and I were thinking that this type of drive system along with > >a stand-alone HV supply based on some super-common/cheap HVT would be > >pretty cool. Neither of us wanted to/knew how to do the yoke design > >though... > > Didn't the Vectrex also use Audio Amp modules to drive the yoke? > > The only requirement on the module (beside current/voltage ratings), would > be that's it's feedback input be available on a external pin so that you can > run it in a current feedback mode instead of the standard voltage feedback > mode used to drive loud speakers. I know this is a little off topic, but apparently Rick Schieve once talked to a guy who worked at a planetarium which had a laser projection system, and the guy was interested in setting up Star Trek and playing it inside the planetarium. A 5 foot Klingon would look pretty cool! And hook up an audio system, and you've got the best vector game platform you can find! :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 27 08:56:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 08:56:15 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 11:53:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199705271553.LAA29568@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: fishd Subject: Re: 'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Mark Jennison wrote: >Well, let's not drop the value of a Zektor to nothing just yet...the truth is >I`m nearly out of the Eliminator sound boards, so even when this SC-FREE >version comes out, I'll only be able to offer only like 5 for so. When??? The cracked version of Zektor has been on TANT since Friday the 23rd, 7:00PM EST. Hasn't anyone tried it yet? Sheesh. David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! fishd@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 27 09:18:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 09:18:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705271619.MAA21750@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 11:09:16 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: fishd "Re: 'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist." (May 27, 11:53am) References: <199705271602.MAA19962@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: 'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 27, 11:53am, fishd wrote: > Subject: Re: 'SC-FREE' ZEKTOR and SPACE FURY ready for dist. > Mark Jennison wrote: > >Well, let's not drop the value of a Zektor to nothing just yet...the truth is > >I`m nearly out of the Eliminator sound boards, so even when this SC-FREE > >version comes out, I'll only be able to offer only like 5 for so. > > When??? The cracked version of Zektor has been on TANT since Friday > the 23rd, 7:00PM EST. Hasn't anyone tried it yet? Sheesh. Too busy playing this weekend :-) However, I didn't see a copy on http://www.vu.union.edu/~peekb/arcade/index.html. Where is it and how do I access it? ftp address? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 27 09:42:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 09:42:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:42:18 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I've been having trouble getting onto ftp.tant.com today, so here is Zektor begin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A0 % @ 1Y:W(LE]Z\L= 0 20, H 0 @ M'Q\ %)%041-12Y46%102P$"% 4 " :MK Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 09:53:01 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Message-Id: <9705271648.AA27634@savage.raleigh.ibm.com> Subject: Re: your mail To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:48:14 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Al Kossow" at May 27, 97 09:42:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 457 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > > I've been having trouble getting onto ftp.tant.com today, so > here is Space Fury I can't get on Tant either. How about someone sending me the Zektor stuff? +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John W. Linville To Be, Rather Than To Seem. | | linvjw@vnet.ibm.com http://www4.ncsu.edu/eos/users/j/jwlinvi/www | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 27 10:10:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 10:10:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) From: Message-Id: <9705271705.AA28264@savage.raleigh.ibm.com> Subject: Re: your mail To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:05:20 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <9705271648.AA27634@savage.raleigh.ibm.com> from "linvjw@VNET.IBM.COM" at May 27, 97 12:48:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 517 Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > > > > > I've been having trouble getting onto ftp.tant.com today, so > > here is Space Fury > > I can't get on Tant either. How about someone sending me the Zektor > stuff? Dooh! I guess I'm a little impatient... :-) +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John W. Linville To Be, Rather Than To Seem. | | linvjw@vnet.ibm.com http://www4.ncsu.edu/eos/users/j/jwlinvi/www | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 27 10:24:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 10:24:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705271729.NAA28826@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:19:43 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: aek@ftpbox.mot.com (Al Kossow) "" (May 27, 9:42am) References: <199705271727.NAA28599@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: SC FREE Stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Thanks, Al. Not to be too picky (David F), but which EPROMs from each game actually changed? All of them? If not all, please let me know so I don't have to burn an entire new set if only 7 EPROMs changed (some of us don't have unlimited EPROMs, or an EPROM Eraser or burner for that matter ;-)). Thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 27 10:27:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 10:27:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 10:27:44 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: SC FREE Stuff Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com It looks like the xxxm.bin files are the modified ones. The modified ROMs for Space Fury look like they're running MUCH better on the emulator too :-) If I can get Clay's drawing code today, maybe I can get the screen displaying today.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 27 11:47:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 11:46:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:43:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199705271843.OAA23882@mailrelay.tiac.net> X-Sender: fishd@pop.tiac.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: fishd Subject: Re: SC FREE Stuff Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Not to be too picky (David F), but which EPROMs from each game actually >changed? All of them? If not all, please let me know so I don't have to burn >an entire new set if only 7 EPROMs changed (some of us don't have unlimited >EPROMs, or an EPROM Eraser or burner for that matter ;-)). I take it you didn't read the instructions ;-) You only have to program and replace the 7 EPROMs that, as Al pointed out, are called XXXXm.bin (m for modified). The Zektor .zip file contains only the modified .bins (and instructions, of course). The Space Fury contains all the .bin files that I used, again the modified are 'm's. I included all the SF .bins because there seems to be several versions floating around the net and I didn't check for compatibility. David Fish | "We want...Information. INFORMATION Melrose, MA USA | You won't get it! fishd@tiac.com | By hook or by crook we will" dfish@bev.etn.com | _The Prisoner_ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 27 11:52:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 11:52:22 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705271858.OAA06776@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:48:01 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: fishd "Re: SC FREE Stuff" (May 27, 2:43pm) References: <199705271853.OAA06168@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: SC FREE Stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 27, 2:43pm, fishd wrote: > Subject: Re: SC FREE Stuff > > >Not to be too picky (David F), but which EPROMs from each game actually > >changed? All of them? If not all, please let me know so I don't have to burn > >an entire new set if only 7 EPROMs changed (some of us don't have unlimited > >EPROMs, or an EPROM Eraser or burner for that matter ;-)). > > I take it you didn't read the instructions ;-) > You only have to program and replace the 7 EPROMs that, as Al pointed out, > are called XXXXm.bin (m for modified). The Zektor .zip file contains only > the modified .bins (and instructions, of course). The Space Fury contains > all the .bin files that I used, again the modified are 'm's. I included > all the SF .bins because there seems to be several versions floating around > the net and I didn't check for compatibility. Good call; I had burned a Space Fury set using some EPROM data that Rick had gotten from somewhere (wiretap?), and I couldn't get anything to run. I compared the data to Rick's Space Fury EPROM board and they were completely different, so I erased his old stuff and archived his working set, so there is some bogus Space Fury EPROM data floating around... Thanks for the info! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 27 12:02:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 12:02:49 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:02:47 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: SC FREE Stuff Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com the Space Fury data in Rick's archive has a bad ROM (it jumps off to nowhere after it transfers from the ROM on the CPU board) I found this trying to get my emulator going. I copied over a good set to tant a while ago, but it has never been updated. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 27 18:04:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 18:04:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. Message-ID: <19970522.033312.10390.2.gonzothegreat@juno.com> References: <199705232344.TAA22631@po_box.cig.mot.com> <199705271407.KAA07756@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6,8-14,16,18,20,22-23,25-27,29,31-37,39,41-45 From: gonzothegreat@juno.com Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:12:48 EDT Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Clay sez... >I have an old B/W 12" monitor that came out of a bootleg Asteroids >Cocktail. The interesting thing about it is that there are *very* few >parts on the board. What the designers did, was use a pair of those >STK0080 (I think that's it, it might have been the STK0050) audio amps for >the deflection drive. (Think about 2"x3" hybrid package thing, they're in >NTE/ECG/etc if you want to look them up.) FWIW Modules are available from consumer electronics repair houses *much* cheaper than NTE/ECG. Try Dalbani. The STK0050 and STK0080 usually run about $10-$15 each. I was mentally dinking around with Zonn's proposal and I remembered I have a 100W audio amp with lots of input/output protection. I might just try driving the modified yoke with it and see if we get the required deflection. If that works, I might try using some cheap audio amps that HSC is selling. They were made for home theatre stuff and might have sufficient drive for this. >The STK0080 are these big SIP package integrated audio amps like you'd find >in a Fisher or low-end Sony consumer Receiver/Amp. Built in heat sink, Actually, they don't have a built-in sink. Just a metal pad that you mount *on* a heat sink. These aren't used too much in the stuff I fix lately. They went back to discrete output devices. Cheaper I suppose. >overcurrent protection, over temp protection, etc. Are you sure about this one? Do you have data sheets? Lastly, regarding Zonn's proposal...I always thought the yoke was an integral part of the HVT design of a raster display. If we start changing the yoke Z, won't that mess things up? I remember John (of John's Jukes) using a loose yoke to keep the raster chassis happy in his vector HV hack. Virtu-Al From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 27 18:12:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 18:12:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 18:12:06 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com re: audio amplifiers for deflection amplifiers don't deflection amps have to be DC-coupled? From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 27 18:44:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 18:44:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <338BA98A.100D@mail.idt.net> Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:42:02 -0700 From: mayday19 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. References: <199705232344.TAA22631@po_box.cig.mot.com> <199705271407.KAA07756@po_box.cig.mot.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Mark Jenison wrote: > > On May 23, 4:39pm, Zonn wrote: > > Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. > > At 03:54 PM 5/23/97 -0800, you wrote: > > >I'll go ahead and toss this out again since I think it was only Joel and I > > >talking about it *long* ago. > > > > > >I have an old B/W 12" monitor that came out of a bootleg Asteroids > > >Cocktail. The interesting thing about it is that there are *very* few > > >parts on the board. What the designers did, was use a pair of those > > >STK0080 (I think that's it, it might have been the STK0050) audio amps for > > >the deflection drive. (Think about 2"x3" hybrid package thing, they're in > > >NTE/ECG/etc if you want to look them up.) > > > > > >The STK0080 are these big SIP package integrated audio amps like you'd find > > >in a Fisher or low-end Sony consumer Receiver/Amp. Built in heat sink, > > >etc. Put a (small) input voltage in one side, get bigger voltage and lots > > >of current on the other side. Really easy to use. It makes a lot of sense > > >actually-- you've got high current, reasonably fast transient response, > > >overcurrent protection, over temp protection, etc. > > > > > >They run off of a + and - 30V supply. I keep meaning to trace through the > > >board and figure out the exact schematic, but I have all these other > > >projects... > > > > > >Anyway, Joel and I were thinking that this type of drive system along with > > >a stand-alone HV supply based on some super-common/cheap HVT would be > > >pretty cool. Neither of us wanted to/knew how to do the yoke design > > >though... > > > > Didn't the Vectrex also use Audio Amp modules to drive the yoke? > > > > The only requirement on the module (beside current/voltage ratings), would > > be that's it's feedback input be available on a external pin so that you can > > run it in a current feedback mode instead of the standard voltage feedback > > mode used to drive loud speakers. > > I know this is a little off topic, but apparently Rick Schieve once talked to a > guy who worked at a planetarium which had a laser projection system, and the > guy was interested in setting up Star Trek and playing it inside the > planetarium. A 5 foot Klingon would look pretty cool! And hook up an audio > system, and you've got the best vector game platform you can find! :-) I toyed around with that idea last year. I think I told this story before on a similar thread in RGVAC but... I work with Videotopia and was there for the duration of it's showing at the Carnegie Science Center in Pgh. the center has an omnimax theater where they show 3-D lasershows nightly. I got to know the laser projectionist pretty well, and were were playing around with the laser system...it uses a 4 watt krypton (?) laser and split the beam into four colors: red, Green, blue and one other color, I seem to recall it was not white but I could be mistaken. anyway the inputs were like 10v P-P for the laser bench (each beam had it's own galvo's and some kind of intensity control, I dont know if it was an iris or what) but we devised a voltage divider network on this PC card that dropped into the card cage of the laser decoder box (the show is stored on S-VHS tapes, the video signal holds the laser info) and all we had to do now was strip some parts out one of our extra Tempest machines and make a 100 foot long snake so we could put the control panel on the "hump" in the middle of the theater (where the projector comes up) and play away! we basically had it ready, but the laser projectionist (LASER Chuck!) got into some trouble that is not related in any way to this project (but I cant go into the details) but we could not go ahead with it. Bummer. I was looking forward to playing Tempest on a 150' screen! we were soooo close too. We didn't know if the galvo's could keep up with the game (we wanted to do Star Wars, but that would obviously overtax the galvos), but I guess that would be dependant if the vectors reset at the center of the screen each time. Atari games do this right? what about SEGA? at any rate, I never had the chance to find out. :( if anybody has an extra $250k laying around to buy a laser projector system, you should give it a whirl! we could also have tapped into the sound system for the sound too, they had 8 or 10 channels (the laser booth only had access to 4 of the main channels though) each with 2,500 watts of power running through these huge JBL speakers behind the (acoustically transparent) omnimax dome. I dont know if it would have done any justice to Tempest's cheesy sounds though....maybe through an EQ. they had a planeterium also which used a very high power B/W Vector projection system. but I never tried anything with that stuff... the guys that worked in there weren't cool enough. :> Jeff From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 27 19:06:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 19:06:43 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 27 May 97 19:05 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970527190207.385f5348@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 08:12 PM 5/27/97 EDT, you wrote: >Clay sez... > >>I have an old B/W 12" monitor that came out of a bootleg Asteroids >>Cocktail. The interesting thing about it is that there are *very* few >>parts on the board. What the designers did, was use a pair of those >>STK0080 (I think that's it, it might have been the STK0050) audio amps >for >>the deflection drive. (Think about 2"x3" hybrid package thing, they're >in >>NTE/ECG/etc if you want to look them up.) > >FWIW Modules are available from consumer electronics repair houses *much* >cheaper than NTE/ECG. Try Dalbani. The STK0050 and STK0080 usually >run about $10-$15 each. > >I was mentally dinking around with Zonn's proposal and I remembered I >have >a 100W audio amp with lots of input/output protection. I might just try >driving >the modified yoke with it and see if we get the required deflection. If >that works, >I might try using some cheap audio amps that HSC is selling. They were >made for home theatre stuff and might have sufficient drive for this. > >>The STK0080 are these big SIP package integrated audio amps like you'd >find >>in a Fisher or low-end Sony consumer Receiver/Amp. Built in heat sink, > >Actually, they don't have a built-in sink. Just a metal pad that you >mount *on* >a heat sink. These aren't used too much in the stuff I fix lately. They >went >back to discrete output devices. Cheaper I suppose. > >>overcurrent protection, over temp protection, etc. > >Are you sure about this one? Do you have data sheets? > >Lastly, regarding Zonn's proposal...I always thought the yoke was an >integral >part of the HVT design of a raster display. If we start changing the yoke >Z, won't >that mess things up? I remember John (of John's Jukes) using a loose yoke >to keep the raster chassis happy in his vector HV hack. Good point! If the yoke is part of the Flyback design (and yes it is, the term "Flyback" refers to the trace being deflected past the zero point by sending the trace off in one direction and then letting it "Flyback" to the extreme negative position. It's a tuned circuit similar to a type "C" type amplifier, if you look in an amplifier theory book.) And I believe Al is right in that as long as this regulated tuned circuit exists, it's easy (for the flyback manufactor) to add an extra windings in the flyback transformer to create the High Voltage! That sure is a snag in the HV generation! That means either I find a TV that will allow the use of a standard X/Y yoke (and let the raster yoke dangle) or I have to come up with a way of generating HV on my own. I would think one way of doing it would be to drive the TV's flyback's primary with a standard 15khz oscillator of my own, using the anode voltage generated as the feedback used to regulate the HV, much like WG monitors do. Damn, this conversion is getting really complicated! BTW: I'm not looking for a universal low cost way of building a reliable X/Y monitor, I'm looking for a 33" 4-player eliminator playing field! These could be mutually exclusive goals. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 27 19:13:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 19:13:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Tue, 27 May 97 19:13 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970527190924.129f6996@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 06:12 PM 5/27/97 -0700, you wrote: >re: audio amplifiers for deflection amplifiers > > >don't deflection amps have to be DC-coupled? Yes. You have to use modules that are powered from a split supply so that they can be direct couple to the yoke. The module Clay was talking about can be run this way. I once owned a Pioneer receiver that used STK-0080s that were DC coupled to the speakers, with a switchable capacitor on the input to guard against any DC offsets generated by any auxilary equipment. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Tue May 27 22:46:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Tue, 27 May 1997 22:46:17 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. Message-ID: <19970522.063618.10406.3.gonzothegreat@juno.com> References: <2.2.16.19970527190924.129f6996@pop3.concentric.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-6,8-11,13-16,19-22,24,26,28-30 From: gonzothegreat@juno.com Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 01:41:17 EDT Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On Tue, 27 May 97 19:13 PDT Zonn writes: >At 06:12 PM 5/27/97 -0700, you wrote: >>re: audio amplifiers for deflection amplifiers >> >> >>don't deflection amps have to be DC-coupled? > >Yes. You have to use modules that are powered from a split supply so that >they can be direct couple to the yoke. > >The module Clay was talking about can be run this way. I once owned a >Pioneer receiver that used STK-0080s that were DC coupled to the speakers, >with a switchable capacitor on the input to guard against any DC offsets >generated by any auxilary equipment. Although using consumer type parts is a great idea IMHO (cheap & relatively indestructible), I wondered if using industrial type power opamps might work. Can you say "engineering samples"? :) Lastly, since Zonn has worked out the deflection and HV issues, that just leaves how we get the RGB data to the guns. I assume we are going to reuse the neck board of whatever monitor/TV we choose to mangle and just bypass all the NTSC/sync circuits. Or am I missing something really important (again)? Virtu-Al From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 08:30:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 08:30:07 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@pop.van.diamondmm.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 08:32:10 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >FWIW Modules are available from consumer electronics repair houses *much* >cheaper than NTE/ECG. Try Dalbani. The STK0050 and STK0080 usually >run about $10-$15 each. Does Dalbani *ever* answer their phone? They kinda pissed me off with being so hard to talk to. They do seem to have tons of monitor stuff though... >Actually, they don't have a built-in sink. Just a metal pad that you >mount *on* >a heat sink. These aren't used too much in the stuff I fix lately. They >went >back to discrete output devices. Cheaper I suppose. Hurm. I'll kinda disagree. :-) It's sorta like the TO-220 package-- there's some metal that provides a certain amount of thermal sink, but if you want to run more/full power you need external heat sinking... >Lastly, regarding Zonn's proposal...I always thought the yoke was an >integral >part of the HVT design of a raster display. If we start changing the yoke >Z, won't >that mess things up? I remember John (of John's Jukes) using a loose yoke >to keep the raster chassis happy in his vector HV hack. From what I understand in Rasters, the horizontal retrace "flyback" (action, not transformer) is responsible for the inductive kick that is used to power the high voltage. HV is one of those things (in monitors at least) that you can be pretty loose with and still have it "work". -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 08:42:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 08:42:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@pop.van.diamondmm.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 08:44:23 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Lastly, since Zonn has worked out the deflection and HV issues, that just >leaves how >we get the RGB data to the guns. I assume we are going to reuse the neck >board of >whatever monitor/TV we choose to mangle and just bypass all the NTSC/sync >circuits. Or am I missing something really important (again)? I think that's the place to start. By the time the signals are to the color guns, all the NTSC demodulation and whatnot has taken place, so you're left with just the raw voltage levels on the neck board driving the RGB components. Odds are pretty good that you can just take a laserdisc with the NTSC "colorbars" on it and measure the input levels with a scope. Then it's just an op-amp to get the levels right. You can generally overdrive color guns rather a lot without causing any problems (and since phosphors now-a-days are so much better than they were 15 years ago) which is probably necessary to get that nice, bright vector look. Too bad you can't just go down to "Bob's X/Y Yoke Emporium" and buy the !@#$! deflection yoke... :-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 08:50:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 08:50:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705281555.LAA11096@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:45:20 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: Clay Cowgill "Re: New vector monitor design." (May 28, 8:44am) References: <199705281549.LAA10357@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 28, 8:44am, Clay Cowgill wrote: > Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. > > Too bad you can't just go down to "Bob's X/Y Yoke Emporium" and buy the > !@#$! deflection yoke... :-) Have you tried? Richardson Electronics sells picture tubes for XY monitors...maybe they know where you can get yokes for them... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 09:34:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 09:34:04 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: <338C5DE9.919@links.magenta.com> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:31:37 -0600 From: Jess Askey X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. References: <2.2.16.19970527190207.385f5348@pop3.concentric.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Zonn wrote: > Good point! > > If the yoke is part of the Flyback design (and yes it is, the term "Flyback" > refers to the trace being deflected past the zero point by sending the trace > off in one direction and then letting it "Flyback" to the extreme negative > position. It's a tuned circuit similar to a type "C" type amplifier, if you > look in an amplifier theory book.) > > And I believe Al is right in that as long as this regulated tuned circuit > exists, it's easy (for the flyback manufactor) to add an extra windings in > the flyback transformer to create the High Voltage! > > That sure is a snag in the HV generation! > > That means either I find a TV that will allow the use of a standard X/Y yoke > (and let the raster yoke dangle) or I have to come up with a way of > generating HV on my own. I would think one way of doing it would be to > drive the TV's flyback's primary with a standard 15khz oscillator of my own, > using the anode voltage generated as the feedback used to regulate the HV, > much like WG monitors do. > > Damn, this conversion is getting really complicated! Why not just use a similar design as the WG 6100 for the HV? Sure they break sometimes, but not anything like the Amplifones. You could even just leave the HV section alone and make a replacement WG deflection circuit. I really havent' ever had trouble with the HV units in Wells Gardners unless one of the supples were low/high or the caps had been neglected for years. Too bad we don't have one of those Bootleg monitors to play with, I remember seeing them and they were extremely simple and I never fixed one so ...... they must have worked decently. Jess -- Unofficial Atari Game Page:http://magenta.com/havoc Lots of other General Arcade Game info at http://arcadegames.miningco.com From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 10:05:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 10:05:56 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 28 May 97 10:05 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970528100118.0f7f614e@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 01:41 AM 5/28/97 EDT, you wrote: >On Tue, 27 May 97 19:13 PDT Zonn writes: >>At 06:12 PM 5/27/97 -0700, you wrote: >>>re: audio amplifiers for deflection amplifiers >>> >>> >>>don't deflection amps have to be DC-coupled? >> >>Yes. You have to use modules that are powered from a split supply so >that >>they can be direct couple to the yoke. >> >>The module Clay was talking about can be run this way. I once owned a >>Pioneer receiver that used STK-0080s that were DC coupled to the >speakers, >>with a switchable capacitor on the input to guard against any DC offsets >>generated by any auxilary equipment. > >Although using consumer type parts is a great idea IMHO (cheap & >relatively indestructible), I wondered if using industrial type power >opamps might work. > >Can you say "engineering samples"? :) > >Lastly, since Zonn has worked out the deflection and HV issues, that just >leaves how >we get the RGB data to the guns. I assume we are going to reuse the neck >board of >whatever monitor/TV we choose to mangle and just bypass all the NTSC/sync >circuits. Or am I missing something really important (again)? I had planned on tossing everything on the neck board (except the socket!) and use the drivers on the Amplifone deflection board -- I would use the gun voltages on the neck board, bring it down to the Amplifone drivers. Driving the RGB guns is probably the easiest part of the whole deal. These are usually driven to ground with open collector transistor. The closer to ground, the brighter the trace. I say usually because I was looking at the schematic to a battery powered O'scope last night and they had a unique way of driving the very small display. They grounded the anode of the tube -- where the HV lead normally goes, and then drive the guns with -800 volts. Strange and it also led to some bizarre capacitive coupling to keep the standard 5v section isolated from the -800 volt section. If the transistors on the Amplifone can't handle the higher voltages, they could possibly be replaced with the ones on the neck board of the TV. Of course other arrangements are possible (varying voltages on blocking grids), the key point is I wouldn't even start a conversion without a schematic, which can be a bitch to get in consumer products. Hopefully there will be a Sams photofact available. Back to the Yoke/Flyback arrangement. It occurred to me that the yoke could be replaced with a similar size inductor, or even smaller as long as the tuning capacitor is adjusted accordingly. This would allow the flyback oscillator to continue oscillating, and generating the HV. Hand winding an inductor isn't that difficult (anybody ever wind their own crossover L-C's for their homemade speaker cabinets?) Or better yet just find a yoke off of another sacrificial raster monitor, I bet it would be close enough. It wouldn't have to be very accurate, since I don't really care if the oscillator continues to oscillate at the 15.75khz raster frequency. I just need the HV at any filterable frequency. That would allow the use of the TV's yoke. -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 11:03:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 11:02:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@pop.van.diamondmm.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:04:56 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >Why not just use a similar design as the WG 6100 for the HV? Sure they >break sometimes, but not anything like the Amplifones. You could even >just leave the HV section alone and make a replacement WG deflection >circuit. My plan was to take the Dalbani catalog, find a relatively cheap (and readily available) HVT and recreate the WG6100 HV supply based on it. Basically go overkill on everything-- if it costs $100 and never breaks I prefer it over $40 and you fix it a few times a year... The problem for me is that I know very little about HV design and have no clue where to find specs on the transformers or how to set stuff up like the "trigger" transformer that's driven from the 555 circuit, etc. Any ideas? It seems like a $15 flyback and another $20 in parts should be able to make a good HV supply though... Suppose a little care is required in the PCB fabrication to keep arcing under control, etc. -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 11:52:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 11:52:12 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705281842.NAA23950@fermat.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.1mach (Enhance 2.0b5) From: Ray Ghanbari Date: Wed, 28 May 97 13:43:50 -0500 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: New vector monitor design. References: Organization: Mayo Foundation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com You wrote: > The problem for me is that I know very little about HV design and have no > clue where to find specs on the transformers or how to set stuff up like > the "trigger" transformer that's driven from the 555 circuit, etc. > > Any ideas? How about getting Rodger Boots involved? I hear he's the "Clay Cowgill" of monitor design ;-) Seriously, with the motivation of help of the project, he may be willing to press ahead with his raster/XY hybrid monitor design. Ray From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 14:18:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 14:17:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:13:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Dangerwil@aol.com Message-ID: <970528171223_-1264006561@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Laser x-y game Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com O.K. Let me add another chapter to the rumor mill. While working in the game business over the last few years, I heard a story about this guy in town that built a widescreen asteroids. They tell me he used a small HE/NE laser and two mirrors driven by the x and y outputs. Surely this would be far easier as you are only dealing with one color. I still can't quite grasp how to do the Z intensity ???? Bill From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 15:13:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 15:13:46 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:09:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Hedley Rainnie Message-Id: <199705282209.PAA02201@mail.8x8.com> To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Laser x-y game Cc: hedley@8x8.com Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com There is a method of deflection that does not use galvanomters. Basically it uses a material that has a refractive index that varies when it is either in or out of an electric field. Usually this is a high voltage(kV) By cascading N stages of the material an N bit number can be used to direct the deflection of the beam. The benefit of this method is speed. A galvo cannot match the deflection speed of this approach (not even close). Of course the disadvantage is cost. I believe this is called a Pockels cell(sp?) and it is expensive. On the subject of Z intensity, what is desired is a ND (neutral density filter) that can be dialed in electronically. I don't know how to do that :) On the colour aspect, a tunable laser would be cool. I do not know of any however that have a wide range of tunability. I used to work with a material called Alexandrite that had crystal properties that allowed you to make a laser that could be tuned. Not over a reasonable range though for a video game though :) Hedley From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 15:15:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 15:15:13 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 28 May 97 15:14 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970528151037.0d5f3c98@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: Laser x-y game Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 05:13 PM 5/28/97 -0400, you wrote: >O.K. Let me add another chapter to the rumor mill. > >While working in the game business over the last few years, I heard a story >about this guy in town that built a widescreen asteroids. > >They tell me he used a small HE/NE laser and two mirrors driven by the x and >y outputs. Surely this would be far easier as you are only dealing with one >color. > >I still can't quite grasp how to do the Z intensity ???? Bill (Paul) has a small HE/NE laser and two mirrors attached to a couple of drivers designed for this sort of thing, and I'll be damned if he can get anything more than a fancy figure eight out of them. They're just too slow. We put a test oscillator into the X/Y drivers and they pretty much flatline at about 200hz. Bill called around, and to get galvanometers(sp?) fast enough to do "Asteroids" speeds, you're going to have to shell out quite a few $k. Maybe some mechanical engineer/genius can come up with a better way to deflect the beam? The hardest part doesn't seem to be getting the beam there fast, it's stopping it once your there. Your going to need very fast, tightly controlled servos. Bill's drivers were not working as servos, they seem to be coils and a magnet. Current through the coil deflects the mirror, much like a speaker. We were driving them by simply attaching them to the output of a test oscillator, so we were using a constant voltage source, maybe if we drove them using a current controlled amplifier (like the amplifiers that drive X/Y yokes) we'd have a little better luck. Still these are low end drivers (you know less than a few hundred bucks) and they don't move fast enough to do anything useful as far as displaying a vector image goes... We figured if you can build mechanical drivers fast enough to display an X/Y image, then a third driver could be used as the Z-axis by simply deflecting the beam onto some sort of shadow mask -- like a piece of cardboard, when we need to turn off the trace. By calling around, Bill found drivers that max'd out at around 100khz, so it can be done. I believe the price of these were near $20k, but I think you can get some slower ones, that would still work, for around $6k (two axis only, no Z-axis). Now if we could only deflect the laser like we can deflect electrons in a CRT, using some kind of yoke, we'd have a cool display! Maybe miniature black holes modulated with a Voltage Controlled Worm Hole? I'll check the local surplus stores... :^) -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 16:26:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 16:26:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:26:44 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Simulated Space Fury Runs! Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I'm pleased to announce that attract mode is running in a window on my PowerMac (as of 4pm PDT) using the modified SF ROMs from Mark. Thanks to Clay for sending the vector display code (the fragment you sent was missing the vector length component.. I added that and everything started looking correct) ..now on to adding the coin-up stuff :-) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 16:37:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 16:37:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@pop.van.diamondmm.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:39:52 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Simulated Space Fury Runs! Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >I'm pleased to announce that attract mode is running in >a window on my PowerMac (as of 4pm PDT) using the modified >SF ROMs from Mark. Cool! *giggle* >Thanks to Clay for sending the vector >display code (the fragment you sent was missing the vector >length component.. I added that and everything started >looking correct) Hey... It was in there... distance=transform[i+1]; /* distance */ ... deltax=sin(real_angle)*distance*zoom; deltay=-1*cos(real_angle)*distance*zoom; You need to set Zoom though. Well, anyway, glad it gave you a head-start! :-) >..now on to adding the coin-up stuff :-) Go for it! Keep us all posted. :-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 16:50:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 16:50:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 28 May 97 16:49 PDT Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970528164542.2b17b262@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: zonn@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Zonn Subject: Re: Simulated Space Fury Runs! Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 04:39 PM 5/28/97 -0800, you wrote: >>I'm pleased to announce that attract mode is running in >>a window on my PowerMac (as of 4pm PDT) using the modified >>SF ROMs from Mark. > >Cool! *giggle* > >>Thanks to Clay for sending the vector >>display code (the fragment you sent was missing the vector >>length component.. I added that and everything started >>looking correct) > >Hey... It was in there... > > distance=transform[i+1]; /* distance */ > ... > deltax=sin(real_angle)*distance*zoom; > deltay=-1*cos(real_angle)*distance*zoom; > >You need to set Zoom though. Well, anyway, glad it gave you a head-start! :-) > >>..now on to adding the coin-up stuff :-) > >Go for it! Keep us all posted. :-) Out of curiousity, is this leading towards a realtime emulator? Runable on a somewhat affordable computer, or will a PowerMac always be required to run this? -Zonn From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 17:03:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 17:02:59 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:02:56 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Simulated Space Fury Runs! Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I'm going to be donating it to the MAME project as soon as it's running. And I meant to thank Dave for the SC Free ROMs instead of Mark (ooops.) A bit more news, it runs about 15000 interrupts and then stops updating the vector list. One thing I've observed is just before it puts up the scrolling instructions, it trys to read location dff6 at PC 4099. It does this only once each time through the attract loop. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 17:09:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 17:09:41 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) X-Sender: clay@pop.van.diamondmm.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:11:48 -0800 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: Clay Cowgill Subject: Re: Simulated Space Fury Runs! Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >I'm going to be donating it to the MAME project as soon as it's running. > >And I meant to thank Dave for the SC Free ROMs instead of Mark (ooops.) > >A bit more news, it runs about 15000 interrupts and then stops updating >the vector list. One thing I've observed is just before it puts up the >scrolling instructions, it trys to read location dff6 at PC 4099. It >does this only once each time through the attract loop. Well, I have my hardware hooked up to a Tek logic analyzer for debugging the multi-game board, so if you want a trace triggered on the a read to 0xdff6 just let me know and I'll get it for you off the "real" hardware. (I can't check Z-80 internal registers, but I can show you everything the bus is up to...) (Random thought for the day-- someone should port MAME to the Sony Playstation. :-) -Clay Clayton N. Cowgill Engineering Manager _______________________________________________________________________ /\ Diamond Multimedia Systems, Inc. clay@supra.com \/ Communications Division http://www.supra.com/ From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 17:34:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 17:34:53 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:34:50 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Zektor Runs Too! Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com ..it's getting hung up on the halt instructions early on, but stepping over them gets into attract mode... You're not kidding, Mark, that is one impressive attract mode!!! From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 20:22:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 20:22:37 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970528202054.008b5760@ng.netgate.net> X-Sender: grigsby@ng.netgate.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:20:54 -0700 To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: The Grigsbeast Subject: Re: Laser x-y game In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19970528151037.0d5f3c98@pop3.concentric.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com At 03:14 PM 5/28/97 PDT, you wrote: >Maybe some mechanical engineer/genius can come up with a better way to >deflect the beam? The hardest part doesn't seem to be getting the beam >there fast, it's stopping it once your there. Your going to need very fast, >tightly controlled servos. If the problem can be solved by keeping the deflection extraordinarily small, one could spread the resulting beam optically, either by reflecting the result of a curved mirror or simply running it through a projection lens. It seems like this might work because the limiting factor is how fast you can mechanically move the mirrors around, which rises as the square of the velocity (KE = 1/2 mv^2). So if you halve the picture size you require four times less energy to deflect. There is a (soft) minimum deflection angle as the amount of deflection approaches the beam width, which would not result in a resolvable picture. So the vectors might be excessively wide. // grigs From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Wed May 28 22:37:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Wed, 28 May 1997 22:37:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 22:33:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Hedley Rainnie X-Sender: hedley@chicago To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Laser x-y game In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970528202054.008b5760@ng.netgate.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Here is something I saved back in 1988: Hedley Path: imagen!sun!decwrl!labrea!agate!pasteur!ames!nrl-cmf!ukma!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sm.unisys.com!aero!venera.isi.edu!paris.ics.uci.edu!orion.cf.uci.edu!cbell2 From: cbell2@orion.cf.uci.edu (Chris Bell) Newsgroups: sci.electronics Subject: Re: deflection systems Keywords: General Scanning Galvos Message-ID: <1239@orion.cf.uci.edu> Date: 6 Dec 88 19:32:37 GMT References: <1372@cseg.uucp> Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 30 In article hobbit@topaz.rutgers.edu ($ *Hobbit*) writes: >Professional shows use multiple x-y pairs of GS's better positional-feedback >galvos -- they're not only fast as hell, they provide exact feedback about >where they are, and you can build your driver accordingly. They also cost >something like $700 per. Since GS is apparently still the only company >making these things [someone please correct me if I'm wrong] they can get >away with this pricing scheme. > Yes. I do work for a company called LOGIC+ (logic plus) which does portable laser graphics shows. We use GS galvonometers. They are pretty good, but not as good as we would like. All of the feedback in the world won't do you any good if the thing just won't slew fast enough. We have, with our own custom amplifiers, a bandwidth of about 1500hz from these guys. Eventually, we will be adding a digital control feedback control system with a very large power ampilfier to coax more bandwidth. However, even 1500hz does not give you very much bandwidth to scan a vectored x-y image that has a lot of corners. (I mean a picture, not an abstract art work). As a result, we use multiple coordinated scanners. (We do a piece from the Star Wars trench scene that is very busy. 1 scanner gets the trench, 2 others handle Skywalkers x wing and vaders tie.) Fun stuf ;-) Later. Guy ~The Interrupt Master~ hedley@8x8.com | 8x8, Inc hedley@netcom.com | Santa Clara, CA. (408) 654-0883 From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 29 04:57:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 May 1997 04:56:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: <199705291202.IAA17333@po_box.cig.mot.com> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 06:52:05 -0500 From: Mark Jenison In-Reply-To: aek@motgate.mot.com (Al Kossow) "Re: Simulated Space Fury Runs!" (May 28, 5:02pm) References: <199705290009.UAA22795@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Simulated Space Fury Runs! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 28, 5:02pm, Al Kossow wrote: > Subject: Re: Simulated Space Fury Runs! [Mark listening idlely] > I'm going to be donating it to the MAME project as soon as it's running. What's this MAME project? > And I meant to thank Dave for the SC Free ROMs instead of Mark (ooops.) I was curious about that (Did I miss a meeting? Did I do something I forgot about ;-)) > A bit more news, it runs about 15000 interrupts and then stops updating > the vector list. One thing I've observed is just before it puts up the > scrolling instructions, it trys to read location dff6 at PC 4099. It > does this only once each time through the attract loop. > > Subject: Zektor Runs Too! > > ..it's getting hung up on the halt instructions early on, but stepping > over them gets into attract mode... > > You're not kidding, Mark, that is one impressive attract mode!!! Yes, it sure works a G08...I'd be interested to see what it looks like on a PC (don't EVEN offer it to me; I boycott the industry and want nothing to do with computers...ironic, eh? :-)). During the game, at the begining of each level, the robot talks to you with the city behind him. When the level is about to start, the city behind the alien goes from full screen and scales ("shrinks") down to nothing. The G08 tries to keep up with rescaling the city, but you can tell vectors start flying this way and that such that the city is continually distorted as it shrinks (like a balloon whose had all it's air released quickly). I'd like to see how Clay's code handles this, and if it looks considerably better on a raster type monitor. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 29 05:34:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 May 1997 05:34:51 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Fish, David" To: "vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com" Subject: RE: Simulated Space Fury Runs! Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 08:31:50 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >And I meant to thank Dave for the SC Free ROMs instead of Mark (ooops.) > Your welcome, Fred. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 29 10:12:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 May 1997 10:11:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 10:11:54 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: speech board operation Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I did a little more playing around with Zektor this morning and the reason it was halting on startup was that it appears to send out speech command 8 (you survived..) ?? when the game starts up. Is this true? It also looks like the protocol for starting a speech command is to send the command number with the msb 0, wait (which was what the HALT was for) then remove the 8035 reset by setting bit 0x80 of the speech control port (which is 0x38). I was also wondering if there is supposed to be a letter missing in the message "FOR EXTRA SHI" and if there is a fairly long delay between the display of game play and this message. I'll try to get color going today, and get some screen shots on my web page, as well as getting pictures up of the start of each wave. oops, one more thing... is there supposed to be a critter displayed inside the rotating-thingie-you're-supposed-to-shoot-for-the-extra-ship (guess it doesn't have a real name) in attract mode? From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 29 10:33:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 May 1997 10:33:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Fish, David" To: "vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com" Subject: RE: speech board operation Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 13:30:33 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com >>I did a little more playing around with Zektor this morning and >>the reason it was halting on startup was that it appears to send >>out speech command 8 (you survived..) ?? when the game starts up. >>Is this true? It also looks like the protocol for starting a speech >>command is to send the command number with the msb 0, wait (which >>was what the HALT was for) then remove the 8035 reset by setting >>bit 0x80 of the speech control port (which is 0x38). There should be no speech during start-up. In attract mode you WILL get the female recruiter saying "Warriors needed to defeat alien robots". (Gets annoying after a while.). The phrase "You Survived" is only in the Space Fury Speech EPROMs. Are you using those in Zektor? I noticed that using Zektor speech EPROMs in Space Fury caused some strange pauses in the attract mode. The speech commands are just like you described, load the phrase code then OR in the MSB to start. There's also a 'special' code (3F??,can't remember) which I never bothered to figure out. I think it's used to concantonate three phrases but I'm not 100% sure. >>I was also wondering if there is supposed to be a letter missing >>in the message "FOR EXTRA SHI" and if there is a fairly long delay >>between the display of game play and this message. The P should be there. It comes spinning in just like the others. >>oops, one more thing... is there supposed to be a critter displayed >>inside the rotating-thingie-you're-supposed-to-shoot-for-the-extra-ship >>(guess it doesn't have a real name) in attract mode? Not in attract mode, only during play. Dave From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 29 12:06:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 May 1997 12:06:09 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 12:06:06 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: zektor speech (cont) Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com it helps if you actually display the last symbol in the list! the last charater (and the female alien) appear now. it also looks like you can turn off the attract speech, since the simulation isn't starting the speech board in the attract loop (I think I remember seeing that in the Zektor switch settings). there are 3 calls to the speech board just before attract mode starts out 38 - 3f, bf, a, 8a, 8, 88 I assume this happens during self-test... back to hacking.. oh, I forgot to answer your question about MAME, Mark. It is a portable arcade simulator that is distributed in source form. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 29 12:17:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 May 1997 12:17:29 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-ID: From: "Fish, David" To: "vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com" Subject: RE: zektor speech (cont) Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 15:14:22 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com > >>it also looks like you can turn off the attract speech, since >>the simulation isn't starting the speech board in the attract >>loop (I think I remember seeing that in the Zektor switch settings). It's also possible that the sound is disabled on the Eliminator sound board. >>there are 3 calls to the speech board just before attract mode >>starts >> >>out 38 - 3f, bf, a, 8a, 8, 88 > Interesting. This looks like the concantenation at work. The combined phrases look to be "Approaching the city" which you hear during play. Dave From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 29 15:13:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 May 1997 15:13:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 13:01:16 -0500 From: Mark Jenison Message-Id: <9705291301.ZM17641@calcite> In-Reply-To: aek@motgate.mot.com (Al Kossow) "speech board operation" (May 29, 10:11am) References: <199705291719.NAA20362@po_box.cig.mot.com> X-face: "@9[FFAftX<9}2=gaPlIyRv_K%h[>.@"8t}B2So!iv.\#M9NplA9bDudBQ|]E`WL9Kd,Tn2v.0OGcE<$yg{&}(m:mB\GO9L+yE}6=d17BM X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: speech board operation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com On May 29, 10:11am, Al Kossow wrote: > Subject: speech board operation > > I did a little more playing around with Zektor this morning and > the reason it was halting on startup was that it appears to send > out speech command 8 (you survived..) ?? when the game starts up. > Is this true? It also looks like the protocol for starting a speech > command is to send the command number with the msb 0, wait (which > was what the HALT was for) then remove the 8035 reset by setting > bit 0x80 of the speech control port (which is 0x38). Upon power up, many of the Sega XY games seem to send a sound signal (not during a reset, however). Elimnator, Space Fury and Zektor all have an explosion upon power up. Star Trek has it's theme music. I'm not sure about Tac/Scan. > I was also wondering if there is supposed to be a letter missing > in the message "FOR EXTRA SHI" and if there is a fairly long delay > between the display of game play and this message. Sounds like your missing the twirling P. > I'll try to get color going today, and get some screen shots on > my web page, as well as getting pictures up of the start of each > wave. What's your Web Page address? > oops, one more thing... is there supposed to be a critter displayed > inside the rotating-thingie-you're-supposed-to-shoot-for-the-extra-ship > (guess it doesn't have a real name) in attract mode? I'm not sure if an aliean is in it during attract mode...I don't think so at the moment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Jenison E-mail address: jenison@cig.mot.com Cellular Infrastructure Group Motorola--Arlington Heights, IL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 29 15:15:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 May 1997 15:15:57 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 15:15:54 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Zektor screenshots Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com i've started to put the screen shots up on spies.com http://www.spies.com/arcade/simulation/screenShots/zektor1.gif is the main game screen i'll put a few more up as I capture them. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 29 20:39:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 May 1997 20:39:47 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 23:35:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Dangerwil@aol.com Message-ID: <970529233515_1009862801@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com, vectorlist@emin40.mail.aol.com Subject: Ampliphone parts Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I have just gotten Two high voltage and deflection boards from the Ampliphone SW monitor. No @#$$ yokes. If anyone wants to make a trade for them, or needs them for experimenting, let me know. Heck, the flybacks might even be good, they don"t look burnt or cracked. Bill From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 29 20:45:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 May 1997 20:45:18 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 20:45:15 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Subject: Re: Ampliphone parts Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I could use a set for my dead Quantum.. From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Thu May 29 23:23:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Thu, 29 May 1997 23:23:05 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 23:23:02 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Sega HW Ref 1.6 released Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Armed with the knowledge gained after a hard days hacking, I have updated the HW reference with a better description of the input ports. Turns out that the input ports on the CPU are active low with the exception of the games with spinners, where the player controls and 1 and 2 player switches are active high. I've also added a map indicating which switch bits go with which port bits. Space Fury and Zektor are both playable now (I'm actually not very good at PLAYING games) so i've added a bunch more screen shots up through the end of the first wave in Zektor. It's fairly easy to map rotL rotR to count,dir for the spinner so I used the same control layout for Zektor as Space Fury. Both games are still pretty tough. I'll probably go in and find the level number in RAM tonight so I can get screen shots of the rest of the cities... From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 30 00:54:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 May 1997 00:54:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 00:54:42 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: port FC bit sense Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I was mistaken, port 0xFC is always active high. I confirmed it by setting the cocktail switch bit on Space Fury and sure enough, the second control panel bits appeared in the self test.. all active because I flipped the sense of them in the simulated input port. I've corrected version 1.6 of the document. I didn't bump the rev number since I figured noone has had a chance to pick up a copy yet... From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 30 06:56:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 May 1997 06:56:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: 30 May 1997 09:47 EDT To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com From: "Gregg Woodcock" Subject: re:Ampliphone parts Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com In message "Ampliphone parts", you write: >I have just gotten Two high voltage and deflection boards from the Ampliphone >SW monitor. No @#$$ yokes. > >If anyone wants to make a trade for them, or needs them for experimenting, >let me know. Heck, the flybacks might even be good, they don"t look burnt or >cracked. They usually don't. I can spare some yokes (and even tubes) if you want to trade or whatever. Let me know. -- THANX...Gregg day 214.684.7380 night UNLIST/PUBL TEXAS NOT CANADA! woodcock@nortel.com or woodcock@dfwmm.net *CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)* "If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*." From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Fri May 30 17:33:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Fri, 30 May 1997 17:32:58 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:32:54 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: GIFs of the rest of the Zektor levels are up Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com just figured out what location stores lives remaining (0xcd31) in Zektor so I ran through the whole game and put up screen shots. turns out the game ENDS after the end of the 8th wave... bummer... it also gets REALLY hard!! they are in the same place http://www.spies.com/arcade/simulation/index.html From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat May 31 01:30:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 31 May 1997 01:30:21 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 01:30:18 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: stray read bug Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I finally chased down the reads to dff6 in Space Fury and Zektor. Turns out there is a bug in the code that blanks the display. It appears to only be used in Space Fury just before the scrolling instructions start, and in Zektor when they blank the screen to say "player 1". They're walking the symbol list clearing the last symbol bits using a RES 7, (IX-0ah) instruction, but IX is pointing to the start of vector RAM (0xe000), so they go backwards 10 bytes into the weeds. The only reason I mention this was at one point Clay was looking for a place to map in some RAM, so you probably don't want to put it at 0xdxxx. Besides, the downloadable RAM on the Universal Sound Board is at D... From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat May 31 11:13:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 31 May 1997 11:13:03 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 11:13:00 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: Screen shot with register and RAM dump Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com I just hacked in some code to dump the registers and CPU RAM and put a screen shot up at: http://www.spies.com/arcade/simulation/screenShots/ZektorMachineState.gif Looks like RAM is partioned by function. The other interesting thing I noticed is they don't use the stack while the game is being played in Zektor! The SP just stays at C900. They use it for the attract mode, though. You need a big display to see the whole shot at once (it's around 1000 * 700) From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat May 31 11:40:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 31 May 1997 11:40:25 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 11:40:22 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: duh Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Zektor uses the stack. What I was observing was the state of the registers when the display interrupt occurs. Most of the time the processor will be halted waiting for the next 40Hz interrupt. If it's really idle, i suspect it resets the stack pointer to keep it from underrunning RAM. It doesn't ever appear to use much of the stack space (<32 bytes). From goonsquad.spies.com!owner-vectorlist Sat May 31 17:57:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for vectorlist-outgoing; Sat, 31 May 1997 17:57:45 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #5 built 1996-Dec-13) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 17:57:41 -0700 (PDT) From: aek (Al Kossow) To: vectorlist Subject: updated state snapshots Sender: owner-vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: vectorlist@goonsquad.spies.com There is now a state snapshot of both Zektor and Space Fury on the web page. It looks like RAM functions are grouped in 256 byte blks (makes sense given how the SC works). One of the interesting things I noticed when watching RAM access patterns is how busy the CA00 RAM block is. This is interesting since neither of the patched ROM sets had any patches in the CA00 block, just C900, CD00, and CF00. Also, NMI leaves all of RAM set to 0xFF when it comes back. Normal power-on reset sets it to 0.